HDD/SSD/NVME Writes after one hour 30GB written?

[acoustic flare]

Is this intended its very destructive to drives, playing solo

something else caught my attention too whilst playing solo

I have 32gb of ddr4

[left breach]

Thanks for the report, we'll keep working on optimization

[acoustic flare]

any potential estimate on when you will patch the game for the drive constantly being written to?

[left breach]

No estimates for now.

[acoustic flare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQ9gOQ-8pc

[left breach]

Its a know issue, we'll work on optimizing it.

[acoustic flare]

new island, added some usage from running around

[fair ridge]

im sorry but you optimize this asap i am having the same issue and ssds are extremely expensive and you guys know that i am sorry if it sounds like im being rude here but alot of people do enjoy this game this is a big deal lol

[spring field]

a suggestion for game dev about that constant ssd usage: try to implement in game option to set a timer when auto save / save point to be done like 5-10-15-20 min in stead be constant, one example from other game:

[vale pier]

Why is this post marked as solved when the fix hasn't come yet?

[fair ridge]

wait are you actually fr

[oak token]

welp after 100 HRS of gameplay, my newly bought 1 TB must be probably have a 3 yrs old usage now 😭 gonna stop playing it for now until this gets fixed.

[fair ridge]

You can check the health of your drive

If you’re on windows 11

[kind talon]

I think the devs are panicking over this - or at least I hope so. They just can't say it publicly or it's going to be disastrous. I for one am not booting up the game until this is confirmed fixed.

[vale pier]

What is fr?

[kind talon]

French

[brazen drift]

I've played for over 70 hours and the drive with Windrose is still 99% health, so not too worried, still far more load on operating system ssd which is same age and 94%....ofc it will be nice when we get a fix

[kind talon]

Unfortunately, just because it does not happen to you specifically it does not mean it's not an issue for other people.

Also, I think the Saves by default go to the C drive

which explains your lower percentage

[foggy bloom]

It's an issue but some of the players think this is someone making fake info and insult those who have this issue😮‍💨

[oak token]

of course it is. This can potentially brick our SSDs with all your operating system, work and personal stuff that is stored. It's a real big headache if it does, it can be potentially fixed with data recovery software. To avoid that headache, i won't be touching it for now.

[rigid scarab]

After i saw something related to this, i checked my dedicated server and the disk write there is almost 18mb/s all of the time.

I probably will save the path where the savegame gets written to a ramdisk tmpfs and mount it to the location where its needed in my docker container.

Then i'll periodically sync the current state of the tmpfs to my ssd every couple of minutes.

Hope this will get fixed asap, and/or is configurable in the configs so, that saving will only be triggered every couple of minutes

[fossil estuary]

What about just having a manual save button for solo game? Or automatic that you can set the frequency? This would also allow you to actually pause the game for a let’s say a toilet break 😉

[kind talon]

My guess is that the devs are working on a fix - they probably don't want to warn people about this for obvious reasons. chances are that they hope most people won't notice, especially after the fix. it's the best way to do damage control on something like this

[rigid scarab]

Good guess, it certainly can be yes. I mean thats a pretty big issue, hat can potantially be financially impactful to some people if ssds are going bad, especially considering the actual market prices of those.
This could be a potential pr disaster if all of the wide media will took track of this.

[spring field]

Well this constant write => on save file it have 3 big impact:

1. it have impact on ssd fizical, especial for ppls who not have at list TLC ssd tipe this is very bad
2. it can create freeze, shuter base on how big it become save file plus for example when combat naval, mobs thing are done usuage spike can rise base on drop what can apear and need to be write on real time on ssd / hdd (i not want to know how game work on a hdd, mecanical one)
3. Constant save it can corupt save what i see some ppls already report

So for real solve this issue (what i see it is tag like solve when is not):

• Make save to be triger about ammount time (give option to player to set that timer) 5-10-15-20 min how i sugest early and give example, yes that it require much more se next part
• Make game work much more with RAM (fizical memory) or prioritize that, problem i see already RAM spike

p.s. i know is easy to be say and hard to be done but it is must address this issue coz is a big one
cheers o7

[gentle kayak]

Maybe we will get an annoucement today that it is fixed and they already set this thread already on Solved.

[jolly swift]

this is hell..

[jolly swift]

devs are NOT stupid, they know such things. There is a reason why most games have autosaves every 10min or so.. They just dont want to do it. I swear this game wore my ssd more than all games combined. I wish i knew this earlier.

[kind talon]

there is a more active thread in the game Support channel btw

[foggy bloom]

Met this issue also so my choice will be not opening the game until dev release a hotfix / statement about this written issue

[jolly swift]

i tried now enshrouded and its 150KB/s which is 200 times less than 30MB/s O_O

[oak token]

yes i can confirm this. I played this today because of the new update. it was night and day differences

[fair ridge]

most of us on new hardware are running ssds and everyone here knows how expensive they can get the issue is i do not even have my game on my c drive i have it on a seperate ssd i always do that to every game i get but it still eats away at you c drive even tho its not on there and we all know the c drive is where windows is installed so if something does happen to that drive your windows is prob broken i def dont want to find out

[red sedge]

could you please tell me how to check?

and is tehere a difference between playing solo and with others? the impact of writes/rewrites

[fair ridge]

on windows 11 go to settings then go to system then go to storage then scroll till you see advanced storage settings then discs and volumes and you should see your ssds click on properties and itll tell u how healthy the drives are

ah that question it does not matter i tried it on a server that was ran by my friend through bisecthosting same issue

it is reading your drives and writing too and its actually destoying your c drive where windows is

[red sedge]

weird i can only see on 2/4 ssd's i have the percentage, and is says 100% healthy, on my C drive i can't get % reading but it says healthy. guess i should be happy considering my C drive ssd is about 10ish years old (never had and still don't have issues)

[fair ridge]

i see it for both you have to click properties scroll down under drive health

[red sedge]

ngl i understand some tech stuff and i've been around computers long time, but this got me shaking in my booties (pun intended) and i'm not sure if i wanna play till this is fixed. saying that i got the game 2 days ago and i have 25 hours in it xD

[fair ridge]

okay put it this way more devs now know about it and will try to fix it asap but it takes time they arent just gonna look at it and boom fixed they have to work on it so id say play a different game for now a similar game is valheim until they fix it which prob wont even be long

[red sedge]

yeah yeah i get it, i'll wait before putting in more time

[cosmic lily]

• 28 gb/hour (alleged usage, I was only able to reproduce up to 19 gb/hour max and this was from exclusively sailing which seems to cause the most write/s) For reference from another game I just ran a test on satisfactory and was getting 16gb/h
• 140 gb/day (5 hours of gaming a day)
• 51100 gb/year (playing 5 hours everyday for a year)
• 600 TBW (TBW is a conservative endurance rating. Most SSDs (especially from brands like Samsung Electronics or Western Digital) often last well beyond their rated TBW under normal conditions.)
• 600 TBW = 600 terabytes = 600000 gb
• 600000 / 51100 = 11.74 years

The way the game saves is different, probably can be optimized, but really isn't a critical issue and won't magically kill your SSD in a week.

I have over 100 hours in windrose, I bought my HD in September 4, 2022 2TB. My estimate remaining life is 96%. So... using Tacticals context, I've lost 4% of my drive health(which is the TBW, not definite life) from doing all kinds of things not just this game.

In 1328 days I've used 4%. That’s about 0.00301% per day
Time for 1% ≈ 1328 ÷ 4 = 332 days per 1%
So 96% x 332 days = 31,872 days
31,872 ÷ 365 ≈ 87.3 years
~87 years until it reaches 0% health

So take the windows drive health with a grain is salt is what I am trying to say and stop worrying about game writing to your SSD, you'll be fine.

[fair ridge]

so you are saying while it is actually destroying your ssd it isnt even by alot?

[cosmic lily]

Its not destroying your HD any more than turning your computer on and using any other application works towards diminishing the life of your SSD. You don't need to worry about this, they'll optimize it likely in the future and make it better, but it shouldn't stop you from playing now, its not going to take away years from your HD.

[brazen drift]

i still say operating system uses more than game which ofc does need fixing but in perspective it isnt world ending, just needs optimising

[fair ridge]

i do understand that even just using your pc could prob wear it out still so regardless its gonna wear out at some point and by then everyone will prob have a new pc

[brazen drift]

your ssd's will outlive your mobo etc....

[fair ridge]

well thanks for that info that really helps

[brazen drift]

yes its not good but im not stopping playing

[fair ridge]

as long as its not like gonna ruin it in a month thats all i care about because you guys know ssds are now so expensive

so alot of people if they hear omg its destroying my ssd they panic

[cosmic lily]

Again to put this into perspective. I ran satisfactory just an hour ago to see what its write was over time, and it was ~4.5mb/s average. The most I could get on windrose sailing was 5.3mb/s. Newer games have more demand on write, just how it is. And in the grand scheme of things, I could play 5-6 hours a day every single day for 12 years straight before I even reached the TBW (which by hte way does not mean the drive just stops working at that point). My drive could run for double that, its just the manufacters stated limit.

[brazen drift]

anyone can monitor there ssd health, you can check it every 10 hours of play etc with this game, then you can see for yourself, yes its heavy use for a game...but they will sort it

[brazen drift]

i can actually get it to write over 100 mb/s in a ship, far from ideal but windows constantly writes to c even if are afk, op sys has more r/w than anything else over time, but devs will sort it

[cosmic lily]

I'm talking averages though

[brazen drift]

yes

[cosmic lily]

You cannot look at snapshots

[brazen drift]

no im just saying op sys jas biggest use anyway

has*

over time

[cosmic lily]

You can run a perfmon filter for the game specifically and do it over time:

So you are only tracking writes from the game itself

If you really want to know over a period of time, but I do find it interesting that sailing reaches the peak more.

[brazen drift]

i dont disagree with you im was just comparing to operating system r/w

[cosmic lily]

for general tracking you can use resmon(windows search bar)

[brazen drift]

but yes sailing has the highest r/w

[cosmic lily]

Read has zero impact on the SSD btw

[brazen drift]

over time ofc

[cosmic lily]

We only care about write

[brazen drift]

yes

but give a few days and this will be irrelivant 🙂

they will sort

simplest is timed save

evey 15/20

[spring field]

to make a proper check how health / statistic are on your ssd you have 2 option:

• 1. each producer / manufacture have a own tolls for monitoring and update firmware it can be found on original site
• 2. CrystalDiskInfo is a free aplication what it show evrything you need to know about ssd / hdd (is for advance info)

[cosmic lily]

I just dont really think its a huge issue. Its something that can be optimized, but likely wont be for a bit. Rocksdb isn't the easiest thing to optimize.

Id rather them fix issues like hitching that happens when you board 😄

[brazen drift]

😄

[brazen drift]

occt is most complete sys mon imo, if you want to check everything, even drive temps etc

[spring field]

yes that it work to or HWMonitor but he was ask about specific thing 🙂

[brazen drift]

kk 🙂

[cosmic lily]

I mean in this case you can just use perfmon and filter for the process to track writes, you dont need anything fancy

[spring field]

anyway this thing is critical for ppls who have ssd what are QLC aka non TLC what have very low life time for example i have a crap ssd for SO i not care about speed, space only about be a ssd what let SO to boot fast inaff and that it ... fact that crapy ssd is use in this condition it kill him in condition when i have a dedicate ssd for gaming and not be proper use 🤷‍♂️ ...

[cosmic lily]

I mean windows uses 100-500k bytes/s of write, every additional application you run. Streaming twitch? 2-3mb/s write, just really not that big of an issue in the grand scheme of things.

[spring field]

well how about a crapy ssd what have a Endurance: 120 TBW ? 😉 for use like SO is fine for be use in this condition ? huston we have a problem 😉 anyway for sure they working to implement what i sugest but it will take few day no bigy

[cosmic lily]

6-7 years of daily heavy writing.
https://blackberryram.com/en/tbw-ssds-should-you-really-worry-about-it/

Best way to really explain it, likely something else will go bad first 😄 like your GPU

[rapid geyser]

Is this fixed now or is it still an issue? I saw it says solved on this post so I was just curious.

[abstract crypt]

It certainly is not 'solved'. There has been no patch to address this specific concern. The devs have said they are looking into it. IE - not solved.

[stuck hornet]

Please let us know when it's fixed. My whole gaming community has quit until it's fixed.

[north moth]

The developers lackadaisical response to this issue causing issues with peoples hardware is concerning. It is massively lacking of concern or care for people who bought their product.

Also, why is this marked as 'solved' by the developers when they acknowledged in here it isn't solved? That looks shady.

[kind talon]

What do you expect, lol? For them to say "Yeah guys, sorry we put your hardware at risk"? That would be a legal nightmare.

They will most likely fix it without saying much, because the last thing they want is to bring this to the spotlight.

[north moth]

You are seriously asking if I expect them to be honest? Yes, they should say exactly what you said. Why is accepting accountability a tough subject? 'oh no if they are honest and tell us the truth it might put them in jepordy'...and?

[kind talon]

Because they are a company and don't want to end up bankrupt.

Welcome to the real world

[north moth]

Ah, so do corruption so we don't have to do honest. You are making this company look great...

'Welcome to the real world' - You are literally saying it is better for them to not admit the issue so they don't accept accountability.

[kind talon]

I have no interest in making them look good or bad, I am not involved with them. I am just aware how these things work.

[north moth]

I guess you are right, if that is who this company is, I don't wish to do buisness with them. Good job showing us all that.

[kind talon]

Again, stop and think for a second. If they come out and straight up admit in being a likely cause of SSDs bricking, they will be in real trouble. And Windrose is probably going to be canned.
Is that what you want?

The best outcome for EVERYONE is that they fix this asap without too much noise.

[north moth]

Lol 'stop and think of those who took your money...why won't you think about them???'. Dude you are beyond done. I won't respond to trolls. Thank you for showing all of us they are doing something shady. You admitted it yourself - if they are honest about this there will be issues. Bottom line for anyone looking at this game going forward. The company won't be honest. Again, I appreciate YOU showing all of us this.

[kind talon]

Dude are you 12 or something

I am just giving my opinion lol

I dont work for them

[cosmic lily]

Some crazy catastrophizing going on. Your SSD will be fine. The write rates are nothing to be that concerned about. It's ok to admit you don't understand what you are seeing, but when people take the time and effort to explain and help you monitor it yourself and you still cry wolf... It will be optimized, play the game, move on. At worst the game is taking a few days off your SSD in the years of its life time.

[cosmic lily]

Excessive, your SSD will be fine, just play the game until they optimize the rocksdb, not even sure how much more they can optimize it tbh. Or don't and come back when the game is closer to 1.0 release. It is EA after all and optimization is a part of that.

[delicate storm]

Are you and Windrose team trying to smooth over this issue, was this the intended approach to solve a known issue. Because following this and seeing you post so much, it's getting suspicious.

[cosmic lily]

I'm trying to help inform people that they are crying wolf. Your SSD using 15mb/s (which for me I only could get like 5mb/s), is nothing to stop playing the game over. People just have a limited understanding of what they are looking at, you can't really use task manager to estimate your IO write/s output. I've stated how to properly track this and report your findings. Perfmon, I have no affliation with the game at all, just have background in this as a systems engineer.

[delicate storm]

alias of whom? I wonder 🤔

[cosmic lily]

Just further proves the point of crying wolf and being irrational. Do the perfmon as I posted above and report your findings if you are concerned. Data is unbiased and does not care about feelings. Data helps the Dev see issues better and determine importance/priority. If you truly think it is an issue, give the data, including your system specs. Ranting and shouting does nothing.

[foggy bloom]

I'm not tech person but until dev do a statement or whatever it is saying the write rate is normal or a hotfix title to fix my concern the game stay untouch

[delicate storm]

Actually human feelings are real, something AI doesn't know about, yet, and humans don't like their SSD working so hard, regardless.

[cosmic lily]

Your SSD isnt magically going to die in a week at those rates. Play the game, they'll optimize it, your talking about shaving a few days at most off your SSD life at those rates. Modern SSDs can burn 100-150gb of write data a day and still last 12-18 years.

Other parts in your PC will fail long before your SSD does, but hey, if it scares you that much, then wait.

[north moth]

I don't know why you guys even reply to DredSilent. The developer confirmed in their own words 'it is a known issue'. Why argue with someone trying to say otherwise? He either is an alias of an actual employee or needs to stop speaking for the developers who have spoken

Bottom line.

[cosmic lily]

"Its a know issue, we'll work on optimizing it." Does not equal OMG MY SSD IS burning up gotta shelf the game. 😄

[foggy bloom]

Yes I understand this , I'm a heavy gamer and I put a lot of time in Windrose ,but with the heavy writing like this I rather spend this rate on another game that's isn't write so hard

[toxic zephyr]

I admit I'm clueless on the topic, but when the game writes 60x-200x as much as other games in the genre, isn't that significant?

[cosmic lily]

It isn't. Every single person that has run Perfmon instead of taskmanager sees their game is between 5-15mb/s usage.

which is pretty standard in modern open world games. It likely can be optimized, which is what they are saying they will do, but it wont change, unless they abandon using rocksdb library. The can configure the compaction probably, to reduce some of the write/rewrites. Not sure what else they will be able to do.

the saving method is just different from what people are use too.

[toxic zephyr]

thank you

[foggy bloom]

For example I can play the crew motorfest for 8 hours straight with the written rate same as Windrose 3hours game play ,I will be choosing the game that eat less but longer game time ,that's what I'm thinking, it won't brick the SSD like that we understand

[cosmic lily]

Yes but you also are comparing oranges to apples. Find a game with similar features (land deformation/building/large persistent maps) etc. For example Satisfactory I tested and runs at 5mb/s

[foggy bloom]

It's clearly there valheim and enshroud

Most of us is not pro ,we just work and game,that's all we know , same type we think is valheim and enshroud

And the rate is different

[cosmic lily]

I mean those posts going around aren't accurate though, showing a taskmanager of a game isn't good data(mostly because task manager just shows your entire system write, not the exclusive write of the game), you need to run average for a time period. A game like valheim and enshrouded do incredmental saves, larger save dumps at 2-5mins. So over time, they end up being... similarish. but if you look at a snapshot, it looks better because the more significant write on games like that happen at period of times, and when the map and building are more excessive, the save time can take longer and sometimes cause stutters during saves. Does that make sense?

This is why I recommend people to do a perfmon over 10-30 minutes to get accurate results. Then you can have a higher confidence level in your true IO write/s.

[craggy sandal]

still worried though lol

[cosmic lily]

If it worries you that much just take a break and revisit, but it likely is a non issue in terms of health of your SSD in the long run. It's more of an issue with optimizing for people with lower end pcs so they run into less hitches/stutters/issues performance wise.

[craggy sandal]

i only get frame drops opening/closing chests

other than that game runs smooth

I also wonder if this has something to do with not having 32gb of ram? idk im not tech savvy lol

[cosmic lily]

You can always run the perfmon as I outlined above to see what your rates are, anything in the 5-15mb/s is fine. As I said if you played at the rates most people are showing in their perfmon, it would take them 9 years to reach their TBW (which isn't the death of your HD necessarily)

Most SSDs state lifespans of SSDs to be in the 5-10 years anyways.

[cosmic lily]

And yes, if you are capped on ram, you'll use Vram which is extra writes to the SSD

[craggy sandal]

ill still be playing though

this game got me by the groin

[cosmic lily]

Yeah its a blast, ready for more content 😄

[zinc parcel]

Will moving the save to an hdd solve the problem? Or it will make the game slow?
Because it's possible to create a symbolic link to solve this issue, but then you will have constant read and writes in your hdd

[fair ridge]

I got 32gb ram if you have an nvidia card the latest driver I’ve personally been having lots of performance issues with I’d revert back to the one before it if you’re on the one before it then try updating to latest then check how your game runs hope I helped

[spring field]

@cosmic lily can you stop with this attitude "ooo is fine nothing bad is going on" ? ... is fine you do math, use chatgpt to pretend you know how thing work ... i am speaking from it hardware technician perspective what see a person like you do math statistic but i will say this:

• math, statistic are good but in reality when you can see how many hardware fail, get brick in less stressful condition you will realize theory is one thing, practice is another ...
• the issue is real and it need to be address! period! you tell ppls relax, it is fine is bad and because ppls like you hardware tehnician end each day replace pice of hardware what end in garbage, ppls losing data, money, time ...

Yes there are solution and for problem to be fix or optimize, it require time but try to step back, ppls getting concern about a pice of hardware what this day become fracking expensive is normal.
Have nice day o7

[jolly swift]

Its like saying cigaretes are not bad bcos they destroy lungs in only 20 years.. no worry guys its long-term 😛

[foggy bloom]

We wanted an hotfix or an explanation from dev , we're not calling other DON'T BUY this ,we never said that ,but the one who so aggressive comment that this is fine live with it is not ok at all , we just hope it can be fix

[craggy sandal]

hope it s fixed. I love this game but I'm also worried about potentially damaging my SSD

[cinder pecan]

Of course all this depends on how old your drive is and how much usage it has had previously, if near to its life before Windrose, it was going to happen soon in any case.

[timber cradle]

Don’t mind him, probably he is a dev in disguise 😂

[sage torrent]

Realistically he's just one of those people who fanboy to absurd degrees, to a point where they even contradict devs themselves. Devs already confirm this is an issue. This guy goes around trying to tell people it's not. Like damn, just stop, it's a bit embarrassing. Nobody here is hating on the game, there is no need to try and defend something that doesn't need defending.

Game is great and already super successful. Devs sold a ton of copies, probably many times more than they expected. Game has some issues, same as all games, game is in early access, we find those issues, we submit feedback. Devs say "cool, thanks, that's exactly what we need, we'll start working on it." This is literally how early access works. My only criticism at the moment is that this thread shouldn't be marked solved because the issue isn't yet solved. Aside from that, this will obviously take some time.

[queen stump]

He is hired by his ego

I had a guy in here telling me "Thoses 30mbs writing are normal, look what happend when you watch a youtube video" 😆
Clown-show

[fallow quiver]

I just logged in for 10min hostin a coop server with no one logged in but me, did 1 fast travel nothing else and game wrote around 5.5Gb worth of data...

Any info from devs regarding this issue

[cosmic lily]

As I said my background is in systems engineering, and worrying about your SSD dying over these rates is not something you need to do. If it worries you that much then don't play, I'm just telling you that you don't need to worry, and its likely they will work on optimizing this in the future. But being so drastic to say you must stop playing the game till this is fixed... is a bit much with all the data and math displayed. I'd prefer the devs themselves come out and state this to put your mind at ease, but... here we are. You literally are now claiming this is bricking peoples machines. So step back, if it bugs you that much, and shelf the game and come back in a few months. This isn't likely something that will be fixed tomorrow or in a week to be within the rates you think it should be.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."- Daniel Patrick Moynihan

[cosmic lily]

It's more like saying your battery in your car is rated to live for 5 years. You plug a device into your usb on and off while using your car, and fearing that your battery will magically die faster because its being used. I don't get what using examples that have no relevance to the topic or point does other than fear monger? If you are that concerned about your SSD losing a few days off its lifetime in the course of the years its rated, then I suggest you return back to the game after some time when the game has been optimized. The point I've been making is people are fretting over nothing. Is the rate higher than other games? Yes. Is it so high that is going to wear/damage your SSD out from you playing it? Unlikely. No one here has been arguing that the rate could be better, which is what the devs have stated, optimization, not that oh yeah this is a major issue its blowing up peoples SSDs as people in this thread are claiming.

Indeed, no one reads at all these days.

[spring field]

Dear one first of all i never tell anyone to "stop play game" or threath anyone here ... and from what you just sayid you tell me to stop play aka you tell me to do what you say is hush ... gg you have a greath logic ... what i ask from you to step back and let thing to move one skolding ppls when is not need only because you belive is fine it not help me or anyone in this matter only inflate situation and make syly but what ever i have better thing to do in my life ...

[cosmic lily]

Because if its stressing you out this much its not healthy. Its an EA game. Step back take a breath. People can assist the devs by trying to give them empirical data. (Free from bias)

[spring field]

is clear i just losing my time with you ... gl have a nice day

[cosmic lily]

And No because what is happening in this thread is people building onto logic that is not sound or backed by any real data(and likely not understanding what they are seeing). Causing fear and panic to the point people are claiming "their whole community" will stop playing. I am merely trying to put their minds at ease saying they'll be fine with the rates being displayed by perfmon from everyone that actually does it. So play the game, let them work on fixes and optimization, no need to make mountains out of mole hills.

[lunar ingot]

Is this you??

[cosmic lily]

Let’s keep the discussion focused on the original topic.

[keen prairie]

Doubt he's a dev but he does seem to have some long term familarity with one of the moderators based on his steam profile
(https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198088609107)
For whatever reason this seems to drive him to spend every waking minute of the day telling everyone why windrose is perfect and that they should all buy and play it, despite his behaviour and attitude being detrimental to this goal by interfering with people trying to debug and resolve the problems the game actually has.

(EDIT: just to clarify I have nothing against wholf and don't consider dred's behaviour to reflect back on him at all)

(Devs tend to actually know what they're talking about, to a certain degree at any rate, so that basically rules out dred being one)

He'll hit me with the yawn react but he won't explain why he's working the forums as an unpaid janitor

🥴

[cosmic lily]

I'm sure the devs would appreciate if you provided meaningful empirical data to assist them in the topic at hand.

[keen prairie]

we've been over this, your eyes just magically stop working every time you would normally see it

[cosmic lily]

The devs likely have it handled and under control, seeing as there has not been a hotfix rolled out immediately, its likely a non critical issue and they'll optimize it when they can.

[keen prairie]

oh you're back to that part of your cyclic dialogue script, fantastic

can you maybe shut up and sod off now rather than continuing to add noise to the conversation so that it stands a chance at being productive instead please

[cosmic lily]

As I said, providing additional data/logs/evidence can help them rule out root causes. Optimization usually takes time and isnt something that is done immediately. In the mean time keep playing the game(your ssd will be fine)... or don't (if you are that concerned about your hardware). They can't just magically make the rocksdb save system better over night.

[keen prairie]

They can't just magically make the rocksdb save system better over night.
Well actually there seems to be several low effort changes to how it's configured that all stand a good chance at mitigating the issues people have with it. Whilst it's reckless to make changes without testing, this can conceivably be made to only apply when the game is launched with special flags, or perhaps referencing a manually created override config file or whatever so that only interested end users can opt in to experiment with the impact the changes make. I don't know what their top priorities are, but this task by itself isn't especially time consuming.

In the mean time keep playing the game
yeah no kidding what do you think I've been doing, I just wish I didn't have to deal with the game constantly freezing when I am 😂

You're so eager to deny the existence of any blemish on the game that you don't even check what my position on the matter is

much like rocksdb you have low read rate and insane and damaging write rate

🤗

[cosmic lily]

Well rocksdb is actually high read/write rates, thats the point of it. Which is the whole point of this thread. But why the insults? You don't see me go around insulting people? You can disagree and be civil.

[keen prairie]

what's wrong buddy boy I thought you did emperical number gathering which if you did would surely show the write being high than read

or are you simply inept all round

or did you just not understand the joke I was making

[hollow ice]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-fry-philip-j-fry-stop-circles-gif-22790188

[cosmic lily]

I'm not here for jokes sorry, just trying to assist people with issues and help put their minds at ease as someone with background in technology. Anyways, if you have additional evidence of your spikes I suggest you post them so they have them availble.

[keen prairie]

I already have I keep saying this 😂

[cosmic lily]

And if you are curious to know more about rocksdb library, you can read about the api here: https://rocksdb.org/?utm_source

[keen prairie]

wow you don't say

[steel lynx]

Came to look for some info about the ssd stuff and to see if it would hurt your ssd less if you rent a server.

[keen prairie]

you're deferring at least some of the ssd load to the server provider yeah

I think you still have your character save file being managed locally though

(as opposed to character PLUS world)

[steel lynx]

K cool thx for the info I'll keep looking in to this chat as well to see if the devs give more info 2.

[cerulean mist]

so thats was the cause of the problem my windows got corrupted when playing windrose twice i have to format my os because of it my save files also got corrupted

[cosmic lily]

I suggest you post this under its own thread, its a different topic.

[keen prairie]

Potentially, but I think in cases where it seems to corrupt things it's actually a pre-existing defect with your hardware that is first revealed by windrose's heavy load

e.g. your drive might be a little scuffed from before running windrose, but normally isnt stressed to the point that this causes problems. But windrose suddenly hammers it and this knocks things over

[cosmic lily]

That likely wouldn't corrupt their os. As you said its more likely the issue exists outside of the game but is revealed by running the game, run a SFC /scannow in CMD (run as admin)

[spring field]

short version heavy load on a not proper ssd can cause coruption special if that ssd it have potential dmg already

[wheat timber]

if you play on a server the savegame is writing on the server, not your local drive. 😉

[cosmic lily]

You still transfer the data to your local pc, so not true. It's just a bit less ram needed to host the game/server, but the write rates will still be higher than what some users perceive as being acceptable.

[cerulean mist]

it happens to me twice when im hosting my world with friend

[cosmic lily]

Again, I would make a new thread, its a different topic. (and post your system specs)

[spring field]

First change what can be done easy:

• Move R5 save location in My Documents what ppls can relocate on any partition aka move "C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\R5" to "X(partion):\Documents\R5" this alow each person to tell were game to work chouse what ssd to be use. YES there are ppls who not know to move My Documents then other solution is to move save in same location were game is install ...

Yes this is not solve issue but it allow ppls who use crapy ssd for SO to chouse were game to work buying time aka for me it was a solution to avoid crapy, not proper ssd to be hammer down when is not suppose to be use in that way

P.S. atm is a option to do it with out this hot fix but it require to use a command like "mklink /J"

[wheat timber]

Can't see any difference to all other games.

[cosmic lily]

Well its different because instead of interval saving large files, it does small updates all the time. So a lot more back and forth traffic so to speak.

[thin gazelle]

Let's be clear here, while this is certainly an issue to be resolved, it is nowhere near as "destructive" as some seem to want to make it out to be here.

The "DO you know how expensive SSD/NVME are these days" is absolutely uncalled for. People complaining about things like this really need to stop playing Early Access games as these are the very things which will come up at this stage and while it should get addressed, I can see how this is something which gets put on a list with other optimisation issues to be addressed once the team gets around to it.

I'm pretty sure the devs are not "panicking" or overly concerned about this. They will probably have it added to the "todo" list in the appropriate planning and timing.

If this concerns you so much, take a breath, maybe wait it out. this is NOT something that needs to get addressed "naow", and if it feels like that for you, you are free to step away until it has been addressed.

[wheat timber]

Every software does this, or not? Harddrives don't last forever anyways.

[cosmic lily]

Yes, but rocksdb is a bit different. Optimized for high write throughput workloads(the complaint), not simple save/load (often SQLite)

I honestly don't know of any other games that use it.

[wheat timber]

it´s good if they optimise it, but I will just continue and enjoy the game now.

[keen prairie]

It's not quite that simple, SSD health is more than just an overall write volume lifetime. I have a 1 year old drive so I'm not overly concerned about the 60 hours of windrose Ive played having much impact on its health, but if it was a 5 year old drive I don't think I'd want to push my luck. The frequent small writes are not good for it. There are some exaggerated claims about the impact but I think a warning is justified.

[wheat timber]

I got 3 nvme one for gaming, one for system progs and one for capture. if one is broken after a few years I buy a new one 😄

[keen prairie]

Okay? Happy for you

[wheat timber]

thank you

[cosmic lily]

Most drives are recommended to replace in 5-10 years anyways, and most people probably do. I know I rebuild about every 6 years. So no point in catastrophizing.

[wheat timber]

OR just go to geforce now, there you can play for only a few coins on a highend pc

[spring field]

realy i will name 3 thing what can be tune:

• 1. Save batching / debounce => interval when is done
• 2. WAL with sync=false + periodic flush => timing it can be set
• 3. Snapshot-uri on a periodic time 5-10-20 min what user can chouse

ask your ChatGPT about ...

[cosmic lily]

Yes Ive said this before. They can change batch, just means people will have to accept some level of potential progress loss (this was probably changed when the save corruptions happened)

Maybe it is a language barrier thing, but by batch, wait a short interval and group multiple changes into one write.

However if the game crashes, you lose everything that was in the batch window.

[keen prairie]

Cool, tell that to whoever finishes their 5 year old SSD off by playing windrose and loses all their data on it. Obviously it would be nice if everyone has the time and money to routinely backup data and replace drives on schedule but since that ain't the case I think it would be nice if people don't get jump scared by unusual software behaviour

[wheat timber]

just ordered a new ssd just for windrose. will install it on that one next week. 😉

but as I said, I can´t see any big issues while on a gportal server. it´s not saving on my local drive

[cosmic lily]

I mean if you drive is that old, you probably shouldn't be playing these newer games anyways? Other things will likely fail before the SSD (GPU).

[spring field]

I will give you some hint:

1. Save batching / debounce (highest gain)

• collect changes and write at interval (e.g. 5–30 sec or on “idle”)
• or after N operations

Pro: reduces visible writes
Con: you may lose a few seconds of progress on crash

2. WAL with sync=false + periodic flush
   write to WAL without fsync on each operation
   synchronize at interval (e.g. 5–10 sec)

Pro: drastically reduces synchronous I/O
Con: small risk of loss on crash (last seconds)

[keen prairie]

what if it was a top shelf pc that's 5 years old

[cosmic lily]

Does your car battery care if it was top shelf 5 years ago? PC Technology is no different, it has a limited lifespan, it is what it is. Compounded by many factors like, do you have proper air flow, are your temps higher than average, how long and what do you do with your pc, people who process videos go through hardware much faster for example.

[keen prairie]

no reason to expect your 3090ti to be unable to run windrose

[keen prairie]

you heard it here first folks: PC hardware is no different to car batteries

[cosmic lily]

But this would have to be minutes, not seconds otherwise the write rates wouldn't really change much to what people are complaining about.
What is the acceptable IO write/s people are willing to have?

[spring field]

atm evtything is happen on evry second or near that ... increase timing it reduce how i say write / usage aka reduce hammering ssd ... is simple

[keen prairie]

it's way more frequent than every second lol

every single event in the game results in a new write to disk

[cosmic lily]

and part of that is likely optimization. Duplicating data that does not need to be rewritten.

[spring field]

well what ever i am try to tell him there thing what can be done ...

[keen prairie]

yeah, I just wanted to point out that even saving batched changes once per second would be a massive decrease in write load

[spring field]

exactly

[cosmic lily]

Depends how its implemented really. Ideally yes. But if the issue more is that they are saving everything constantly then the change might not be as big as people hope and you will just get bigger chunks at intervals which might introduce hitching/stuttering. rob Peter to pay Paul

[thin gazelle]

I guess ChatGPT makes everyone an expert now.. Just copy paste the answer et voila..

[keen prairie]

Nothing is definitive until the game is changed and can be profiled anew sure, but the observed problems are that high write count of small bits of data chokes up the disk. Switching to lower frequency and higher write size would absolutely improve on that

[spring field]

o deeear here we goo agen ... i not know why i bother ... anyway i already sugest varios thing ... i fix my issue somehow and that it ... time to move one ... wasting my time o7

[keen prairie]

Im afraid chatgpt would do a better job honestly. It has a longer context memory and better reading and reasoning abilities

[cosmic lily]

indeed. I dont think they will really make this problem go away with rocksdb to the level that will please people.

[thin gazelle]

I'm pretty sure that at this time everything behind the curtain is still very much in flux and can/will change. There is very little point in these optimisations at this point, even when you know they might be beneficial. This is a small team and I am pretty sure they have bigger fish to fry and would prefer to tackle this once most of the system depending o it are wrapped up as far as development goes.

[keen prairie]

I am pretty sure they have bigger fish to fry
idk, maybe, but even server providers are suffering from stability issues stemming from this

and nothing that they build on top will improve the situation or change how they approach it

[cosmic lily]

They are not, they have only reported the issue with 100% utilization which is a know issue they are looking at. And small cases at that (like 2 out of 100's from one provider)

[keen prairie]

unless they decide to replace rocksdb with something else entirely, then sure optimising rocksdb would be time wasted

[keen prairie]

out of 100's
cool how you pulled that out of your arse lol

[cosmic lily]

I'll glady provide the link

[keen prairie]

lmao sure

you read it from a guy I quoted who I know didn't specify the total number of machines they run

[cosmic lily]

HAHA funny enough even you replied in it. Starting to think you are purposely fanning flames.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/3041230/discussions/0/807975131067680117/?ctp=5#c807975352045441140

[keen prairie]

Are you stupid

[cosmic lily]

For the most part, we have not had memory crashes, but I have seen some customers, only two really, That have had some slowdown due to NVMe writes. The throughput is not much, maybe between four megabytes and fifteen megabytes, but the drive is active almost a hundred percent of the time.

[keen prairie]

It's a discord post that I crossposted to the steam forums because it's useful info

[cosmic lily]

Different issue, you are trying to mash seperate things into one all inclusive OMG my drive is dying end of the world issue. In which the server provider admits the throughput isn't an issue. But hey, doesn't fit what strange agenda you have to watch the world burn.

[keen prairie]

yes I'm collating the various reports of abnormally high disk util because they all seem to stem from the same root cause regardless of the different symptoms they result in

[cosmic lily]

And completely glossing over the server provider stating the throughput, which is what this thread is about, isn't an issue to them. Gotcha.

[keen prairie]

you genuinely still don't understand that an SSD will hit 100% util even when the write rate isn't the maximum advertised I see

[abstract crypt]

Watching this thread slowly ignite into a dumpster fire is more fun that playing the actual game. And easier on my SSD 🙂

[keen prairie]

@cosmic lily look at this image. Do you comprehend it? The numbers are different for different categories. Why?

[cosmic lily]

Indeed, blaze said it best tbh: #1496921814431961178 message

[keen prairie]

btw are we just glossing over the egg on your face after you looked it up and found that you were wrong or what

[cosmic lily]

Congrats you show a write rate snapshot of your entire C: super useful.

[keen prairie]

No no come on, explain why the numbers aren't all the same

why can it sometimes write 13000MB/s but then sometimes 229MB/s

is it just operating at 1% disk util when it benchmarks that 229

[cosmic lily]

Anyways... back to the topic, if you want to provide useful data, do the perfmon as I showed how way above for anyone who wants to help show data to the devs.

[keen prairie]

deflection again because you look profoundly stupid yet again

[spring field]

@keen prairie you waste your time you will not get anyware ... speak with him is like speak with a rock wall ...

[keen prairie]

I know 🥹

[cosmic lily]

Better to not feed the trolls, taking blaze's advice.

[keen prairie]

This is more just so that anyone entering this thread and skimming through will be able to understand how worthless anything he says is

he can't remember anything and deflects when called out on it

he doesn't understand the basic functioning of SSDs and deflects when called out on it

[cosmic lily]

For those who want to see what their IO write rates are without downloading software, you can do this on Win10/11 with Perfmon: follow these steps and you can provide your data in this thread to show your results of usage, or to put your mind at ease. #1496921814431961178 message

[keen prairie]

don't bother doing this because he will just ignore what you post if it doesn't say what he wants it to say

or he'll claim your RAM is too low and then say you didn't prove you have enough if you tell him how much you have