kitsune log analysis

[fast zephyr]

opened a thread for you

[flint viper]

Thank you so much Fuu.

[fast zephyr]

I assume you want whispyr to check ^^

but i can take a look tomorrow, have raid soon

[flint viper]

Yeah. that would be fantastic.

Whispyr was doing them in chat and said he'd do more. I didn't want to pretentiously ask you to do it or anything. Anyone is fine.

I've got great gear I think.

But I'm hitting like 10k. =\

[flint viper]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V8dHxnG7RpK1kBLC#fight=last&type=damage-done

necrotic wake 22. ~_~ timed but at 9.8k. 😦

[light leaf]

I will get to this soon

long day

[light leaf]

so the first thing I'll say is M+ logs are really hard to analyze sometimes

because it's a lot of decision making in the moment

versus raid boss sim perfect rotation analysis

so it might seem like I'm not being very specific and only talking about high level things

hopefully we can walk out with a deeper understanding of our decision making though

lets take a look

a quick note on setup here

you have an astronomically high amount of crit and vers for m+ here

I'm seeing a 65% crit rate on storm across the entire dungeon

kinda don't really need that much, especially with planned execution

and if you're trying to pump harder, I would actually suggest cutting some of that crit and haste in favor for mastery

mastery helps out a lot in aoe, and is quite good in funnel as well, especially compared to crit

so in general, we like that

now going into cooldown usage

there's some stand outs right off the bat

this is flag casts

you can tell sorta where the urh casts are

however my main concern are these poorly drawn laptop trackpad areas in red

that emptiness is very concerning

that one about 14 minutes in especially

it's flag at 14:47, 16:34, and 19:23

that's 3 flag casts in 5 minutes

almost a 2 min gap in the first and a 3 minute gap in the second

and we're of course using obedience

so I should in theory be seeing flag every minute or so

so 14:47, 15:50, 16:50, 17:52, 18:54, 19:58

for example

looking at it a little closer

you actually just didn't flag on trash at all

it was boss, then boss

I assume you're probably trying to hold your cd for the boss

but I would really recommend just letting it happen naturally

you get urh on bosses anyway

it'll be up

now tornado casts look very similar to flag casts, we like to see that

but uh

this usage could use a lot of work

there's also really long gaps in your symbols here

so it's all pointing towards one underlying issue, and it's a very common problem for a lot of sub players

cooldown usage

I'm just going to explain how we want to go about using our cooldowns, prepping for it, both alone and together

and then I'll give a recommendation that might seem weird at first, but hopefully will make sense in context

lets talk about the most important one first, symbols

symbols is your time-keeper on sub. Everything fits around symbols

you flag around symbols, tornado around symbols, dance around symbols

and with that, symbols should be on cooldown, every 30 seconds

if you get an urh, hit it the moment it comes up

now, some interactions with other cooldowns

with flag, you want to symbols afterwards, especially in aoe

so flag -> symbols (we'll build this combo up as we have more cooldowns added in)

flag -> symbols is easy enough

symbols every 30 seconds, when flag is up, flag -> symbols

okay

cool

so lets worry about flag next

you always want to flag with 5+ cp

in order to stack the cp

[light leaf]

referring back to this screenshot, we see a finisher before the flag, then a tornado

so ideally, we would want to flag, THEN finish

we'll slot that into our combo

so flag -> finish -> symbols so far

aight cool

we prep for flag by building cp, we then have cp, flag is up, we finish, then we symbols

with the cp we use during flag, the cooldown gets reduced

but we want to line up flag with symbols for the increased damage and stack our cooldowns

so what we're gonna do is hold flag for every other symbols

essentially making flag a 1 min cooldown

in aoe you can get it below a minute, but we'll just hold it for the symbols to make sure we line everything up

so we got the following:
flag -> finish -> symbols
symbols alone
flag -> finish -> symbols
symbols alone

every 30 seconds

but wait! tornado is a 1 min cooldown, and flag is a 1 minute cooldown

we can fit tornado in as well

since tornado generates combo points, you wouldn't want to use it with high combo points, you want to use it with low combo points

so we can fit it into our combo after the finisher

flag->finish->tornado->symbols

the symbols after the tornado is already where we want it

because tornado uses a gcd and does nothing during it

so symbols before tornado would just be a wasted second on symbols

we can hit symbols between the gcd

so after tornado, but before the first storm from it comes out

perfect!

the last cooldown(s) we got are dance, and blades

lets handle blades, it's the easiest of the bunch

with our 2 set, blades uptime is super high, and we just use it on cooldown, and that's really it

if it's up, send it, call it a day, ez pz

dance is used in 2 situations

you're either going to overcap on charges, or you're using symbols

symbols + dance stacks damage amplifiers, we like that, dance gives some extra crit rate to storm, allows us to use shadowstrike, all very cool. Because it enables shadowstrike, we usually want to use it on low combo points as well, especially in single target. You can use dance more aggressively in aoe though. That pairs great with tornado, since that's also low combo points

so we can slot it into our combo the same place as symbols

flag -> finish -> tornado -> symbols + dance (between the gcd) -> rotation

now that we built the combo

that is what you will do

every. single. time.

my recommendation to people who are struggling rotationally is to literally hard-limit yourself and follow it to the end of time

every 30 seconds, you symbols

[light leaf]

every other symbols, you execute this combo

doesn't matter if you're in single target on a boss

or you're in 3 target

or 50 target

you just do that

over and over and over

you should be able to do it blindfolded basically

and you might go "oh but what if I need to hold for a X or a Y and then a Z and the route and the tank and dps we need and the time between packs my cooldowns they all fall apart"

I know friend, me too

I know that feel

but you just push through

and you hit that 30 second timer

eventually as you get more comfortable with it

you learn the decision making of how to hold without fucking up everything and holding flag for 3 whole minutes

urh is also something that might mess you up

but is actually really easy

if you think about it, we just put every cooldown on a 30 second, or 1 minute timer

urh reduces that by 20 seconds

all of it

it never causes a desync, because it simply shifts the entire thing 20 seconds forward

flag every minute? now it's 40 sec
tornado with flag? also 40 sec
symbols? it's gonna be 10 sec, then 30 sec

everything lines up perfectly as long as you just close your eyes and slam it all on cooldown

it'll come back up, trust it

now some other things

I see this from your tornados sometimes

and I should never see this

because if it were 3 target, I should see strike, finish, strike, finish

and if it were 4 target, I should see finish x4

at no point in time should I ever see double storm finish

like this

this shouldn't be happening

so in dance: strike on 1-3, storm on 4+
out of dance, backstab on 1, storm on 2+
finish on 4cp if you're in 4 target, 5 otherwise

I'm gonna send some screenshots of cursed combos

and you can test yourself to see what's wrong about them

Answer: ||no flag -> finish, the finish was before. The dance came in after the tornado instead of with the symbols, storm double backstab is a no no, should have been strike -> finish -> strike -> finish with the dance.||

Answer: ||again no flag -> finish. We also missed a ton of gcds before the tornado came out, and then didn't finish with the cp it gave us (strike -> strike with 2 storm gcds in single target would overcap us). you ruptured during dance (we don't rupture during dance ever). The tornado was way late and didn't come with the symbols/dance||

Answer: ||Flag->finish was good this time, but there are no other cooldowns in sight, so we failed to actually sync up to symbols/tornado. They came in at 286, after flag was finished stacking, that's a huge loss of flag damage and you probably didn't hit the cooldown reduction effectively either||

Hopefully that helps you out @flint viper let me know if you have more questions

[flint viper]

What about slice and dice? if it drops off during shadow dance do we refresh?

[fast zephyr]

if you have lower target counts, yes

but you in general aim to not refresh your maintenance buffs/dots during dance