dim log analysis | Ravenholdt | Page 1

broken kestrel Jul 27, 2022, 6:10 PM

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currently a bit busy, but i can come back to you at some point in the coming days. But maybe there is someone else who can help in the meantime

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 9:28 AM

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just from a quick look, you want to use er-before dance

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your 2nd symbols cast is on 45 sec in the fight, so you basically delayed your cast there heavily

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your er cast was during dance, it is better to use it between

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the dance cast here was not well timed as you lost half of its duration

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the 3rd symbols cast was on 80 what also means delayed

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your slice and dice uptime esp. during the early stages of the fight is not very consistent

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you did ignore PV entirely between these two casts of shadow dance

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So basically what you want to do is try to use symbols as much on cooldown as you can

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e.g. if you compare it to some of the top logs they have the 2nd and 3rd symbols cast close to ~35 ~65.
This means they only delayed the cast by ~2-3 secs when the initial use was somewhere around the 2 or 3 sec mark.

In contrast 45 - 80 means you did delay symbols by ~17 seconds in this cycle alone.
The reason it is important to use stuff on cooldown is not only due to lost casts over the fight but also often alignment

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A later use of a cooldown can make it so that you can't fit another shadow dance before a boss mechanic happens

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This is why it is essential to try to use cooldowns as soon as possible and only add delays if nessecery

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Slice and dice uptime is a no brainer, you usually want it to be up. If there is longer downtime it is perfectly fine to drop it however

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towards PV, i assume the above was a mistake.

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For ER, you consistently use ER during shadow dance

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this holds a heavy cost because you sacrifice two globals, it is better to use it outside of dance

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just use it on cooldown, and try to hit all empowered charges during the duration

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:44 AM

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Okay will do

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Thank you for the review

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I thought for symbols it would be better to hold it to not waste energy like you would with tiger's fury

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But energy is a lot easier to come by on rogue so it's harder to not overcap I feel like now

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:46 AM

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a lot of cooldowns do consider energy

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but symbols is a too short cooldown to do that, you could possibly delay it by 1-2 sec without losing much but delays of 5 or 10 sec on a 30 sec cooldown are not great

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also subtlety builds around the concept of explicit pooling

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:47 AM

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Ok perfect, that's going to make it a lot easier on my mind

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:47 AM

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what means you basically use spenders if possibly and should end up in usually low energy levels

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I did switch to this concept in legion when introducing the DfA apl

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Rogues before that did always pool and used builder as a concept to avoid overcapping on energy

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:49 AM

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Oh right, so you would pool a deficit like a windwalker would focus on not capping anything?

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:49 AM

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the concept is to only pool if you need it

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and else just spend your energy

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:49 AM

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With ER ironically I started just casting it on CD to not keep casts

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I see okay

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So I would pool before dance likely

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:50 AM

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you would pool before dance if needed yes

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but with energy talents like SF and MoS, the value you would need is fairly low

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:50 AM

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I did pretty decent on the kill btw https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/62502637#boss=2537

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:50 AM

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also because the concept is basically to keep your energy low

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and you will use symbols on CD more or less before going into shadow dance

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:51 AM

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Oh yeah, I tend to pool to 60 and even then I cap energy during dance at some point

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:51 AM

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you already generate energy to be on a higher level before using dance

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:51 AM

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Just because of GCD

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So I can cast ER outside of dance and then go into dance right after correct?

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:52 AM

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er-finish-dance if it aligns

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but er is a "on cd use"

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so means it is unlinked to shadow dance

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The main purpose of ER is to generate additional cooldown reduction on shadow dance

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so that you can use it more

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and this feeds into the baseline gameplay loop

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shadow strike generates more cd than backstab what leads to more cdr on shadow dance, what gives you more shadow dance caste... and so on

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there is a positive feedback loop with the cdr

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and the tier set 2p also feeds that with more shadoblades uptime for example

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:54 AM

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Yeah the main thing I always see is shadowstrike isn't my top damage

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While the top logs do have that

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:55 AM

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Also for logs, keep in mind current ranking is impacted quite a bit by the tier set

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:55 AM

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But the trick is getting how to do that properly straight in my head

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:55 AM

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having two random procs can falsify the results quite a bit

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:55 AM

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Oh yeah

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:55 AM

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having "luck" or "no luck" can give or drop you quite some ranks

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:56 AM

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I have parsed over 100 on dummies here and there while practising

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Is there a way to check the amount of procs?

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:56 AM

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you can just count ^^

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:56 AM

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And do we no what the mean chance is

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Haha okay no shortcuts then

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:56 AM

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btw. tier set procs count as shadow strike casts too

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:56 AM

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Oh right

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:56 AM

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so always keep an eye on them when looking at other logs

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if the palyer has a noticable amount more procs, it might be that he had good procs

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:57 AM

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That's a good point

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For the next big fight I will be sure to make some offerings to the RNG gods then

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:58 AM

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it might be better to focus on using cooldowns more efficiently

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:58 AM

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Haha I'm kidding

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 11:58 AM

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because that is what you can control 😛

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but season 4 will start soon

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so i wouldn't worry to much

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 11:59 AM

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These are my notes:
On opener use ER > Dance

Use ER outside of Dance
Symbols on CD (1-2 seconds off maybe)
Slice and Dice uptime!

Play into the shadowstrike feedback loop

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Oh yeah I just like improving, plus I'm going to trial with a guild a few world ranks up so I want to show them rogue

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Having raid lead so much this tier it's a breath of fresh air to focus on just one player for once again too 😂

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Thanks a lot my man, this is very valuable to me

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 12:01 PM

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don't forget about PV 😛

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 12:01 PM

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Oh yeah

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 12:01 PM

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even tho it only happened once

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 12:01 PM

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I didn't write it down because it was so obvious

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I've been having it more often now focussing so much on strikes

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I need to build in an airhorne to my WA

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 12:02 PM

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if you consistently have low amount of strike casts

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you might not dance enough

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dance is fairly "on cd" use with kyrian

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ofc. while still keeping one charge for symbols

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 12:03 PM

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Yeah that's what I worked on yesterday

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Went from 120 casts to 164 I think on 8 minutes

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You can get away with using it a lot which I thought for a while would be bad form but turns out it's actually really great

broken kestrel Jul 28, 2022, 12:04 PM

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no

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i did optimize it

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in the simulation

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and optimizing rly means (only for kyrian tho) to just send it on cd with minor exceptions to still have one charge for symbols

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it isn't even that much of a damage loss to just send it always on cd, but it is bad practice

zealous stag Jul 28, 2022, 12:09 PM

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Yeah makes sense

#dim log analysis