But can only run tests sunday I think
#classic-discussion
desert hazel
desert hazel
60.58 just by swapping out 4 DM? Thats hard to believe. Can you show before/after?
desert hazel
Ah
desert hazel
Yep that makes sense
desert hazel
You own earthstrike?
plucky nymph
Eventually
desert hazel
My wife did the grind I didnt
plucky nymph
Will likely not use it though.
All of the people that are going to Revered for bracers over here did, the AP boys are chillin > _>
desert hazel
I will skip Jom probably and run P6 trinkets
Im will focus on daggers and waist in AQ
plucky nymph
Will likely be DFT and either naxx trinket.
desert hazel
Yep
desert hazel
I get some AQ20 treats but will skip most of AQ40 and leave it to guildies. I will only really go for sting/pugio the waist and probably the back
Sting isnt contested so I might get it
plucky nymph
Hawt.
desert hazel
Dagger rogues arent too popular atm
And we had tons of sword drops lately
I like daggers so I keep playing it. It only sucks as I would have enjoyed running as EA slave tbh
Useless as dagger
raven snow
is rank 9 evisc book out?
raven snow
Are daggers or swords better for rogue?
desert hazel
Are daggers or swords better for rogue?
@raven snow funnily enough, as we all know blizzard and even worse blizzard from 15 years ago, sword vs dagger rogue is rather well balanced both for PvE and PvP. We, in fact, have options.
In PvP dagger specs work really well, either as Seal Fate or Sub Spec as well as Sword with Hemo
I think you mean in PvE though and there it's rather similar.
If we go into min maxing and counting in overall dps potential, all bosses + trash, you fare better with swords, slightly, if we compare BiS vs BiS
Dagger has the edge at Vael (BWL) but thats about it.
outside of pure min max paperwork, both can excel and the best answer probably is: It doesn't matter, go for either what you like more, if you have a preference or just go for what items you can get access to first, e.g. if you're a fresh 60, go dagger if you get Perditions Blade, go Sword if you get Chroma sword
signal ember
Tonight was hella crazy for world pvp, raked in over 360hk
Got out of the one way in/out cave, then dealt with two group trying to sandwich between us but we were loaded on sappers and faps
desert hazel
good job π many servers just forged alliances between the bigger horde/alliance guilds and pvp is practically dead outside of some skirmishes.
good you guys have fun
humble rose
Hey guys, just after a bit of advice. I've not done much raiding on Classic, only a couple of ZG runs. my gear is as follows:
Head: Ebon Mask
Shoulder: Truestrike Shoulders
Chest: Cadavorous Armor
Bracers: Nightslayer
Gloves: BloodDrenched Gloves (ZG)
Waist: Nightslayer
Legs: Devilsaur
Boots: Swiftwalker Boots
I'm using Krol Blade and Mirah's Song
I'm basically pre-raid bis or better and I'm 9% hit capped... I'm planning to go 6 piece dungeon set 2 and keep my nightslayer belt and bracers... my question is, is this the right thing to do? Or are there better combinations out there? I'm not sure if I'll struggle with hit %
desert hazel
I can try to create an easy prep plan for you as soon as I am on my desktop.
Whats your short term goal?
humble rose
Hard to say really, my guild are starting out raiding ZG while we try to build towards molten core - Ideally i'd like to be able to need minimal gear from MC so I can focus on gearing our other members... long-term my goal is to be full bloodfang geared but honestly I don't think my guild will get there before Shadowlands comes out lol
I see a lot of rogues dropping bloodfang gear for darkmantle
raven snow
Could anyone help me? Almost all my quest are lvl 29-30+ but im lvl 28 and it takes me ages to kill mobs from that level... It will be impossible for me to do the other quests what should I do?
raven snow
kk
desert hazel
@humble rose
Ok, that is not so easy as it seems your guild is very casual even among casual guilds. that is nothing bad, dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of variance and hate nothing more in this game than guild-elitists π it's just a different starting point and, even trickier, different potential what you can get access too realistically (without huge luck withing few tries)
Let's start with the obvious darkmantle (T0.5) set question.
generally speaking, since this week, 4 pieces darkmantle is BiS. it's a bit conditional though, at least for dagger rogues but as you are sword (and I just assume you will keep playing sword for the moment)
So if you have 8/8 T0 set items and can afford the quest chain (depending on your server and items available already around 1500 gold) I highly recommend doing it.
Keep in mind to keep your hit high though, hit, also above the softcap, improves your proc rate. You can sim and test around and will see it's right.
You should then wear following darkmantle set items as sword rogue: Head + Chest + Gloves + Boots
that would set these 4 slots straight for almost the whole phase or maybe the whole phase as you will only be able to outgear these slots with full T2.5 in regular raid conditions (full buffed and shit)
As you already know ZG and will probably keep running it, I suggest to get following items: Hakkari OH sword (it's amazing, if you're human, it's even BiS, otherwise it's 2nd after Maladath), Renataki's Charm of Trickery (takes 6 weeks at least and costs some gold, stick with someone to go for it as most of the times the bosses drop more than 1 item), Zandalar Madcap Shoulders and, depending on what rings you have now, try getting the ring set with a focus on the one with hit rating
These ZG items are quite strong, especially as sword rogue in P5
Bracers are OK with T1, your best upgrade would be T2 bracers.
As Main Hand, I suggest to run Onyxia for Viskag if you can't have access to BWL. if so, obviously CTS is your best bet (chromatically tempered sword)
Play around with your trinkets. I have no clue what you have access to
Could anyone help me? Almost all my quest are lvl 29-30+ but im lvl 28 and it takes me ages to kill mobs from that level... It will be impossible for me to do the other quests what should I do?
@raven snow Hey mate. Never level in zones with Quests / Mobs above your level. typcially you want them to be ~2 levels below for best progress
Please do yourself a favor and get rid of the idea to keep staying in a zone until it's done. STV for example will take several visits (4-5) until done, most zones take 2-3 visits for best progress. Zone hopping is in fact quite efficient if you can follow the right quest progress. There are guides out there. For Horde, there is https://barrens.chat/content/wow-classic/nightfalls-wow-classic-horde-leveling-guide/ for example. They are not perfekt but quite good for beginners as a guideline to learn progress routes
raven snow
Is there an alliance guide or does it not really matter? Also I'm pretty sure im not in the same zone because almost every quest here is 28+ https://gyazo.com/efd15c86b209f8858e1c5cc0c555beac
Most of them are even 30+
desert hazel
it does matter, I simply dont have an alliance guide myself. pretty sure someone here has one they can promote or just search for one
there are pretty much perfect zones at any level range
and if not you will need an hour of grinding to be back on track
raven snow
I don't get what you mean by perfect zone because I did almost all quests for my level in every single zone
There isn't really a perfect zone for questing for me
humble rose
@desert hazel thanks for the info mate, the problem isn't that we're casual it's that we've started late. Many of us hit 60 within a week or two of classic launch and got disheartened not being able to dungeon/raid because of lack of groups. So we stopped playing. It's taking back off again now but it's hard to build a 40-man team at this current time when so many guilds already have everything on farm. Unfortunately 2 of our tanks were poached recently with promises of regular MC slots, and we can't compete with that sadly.
I'll take your suggestions into account and appreciate you taking the time to reply. I'll have access to MC (eventually?) and hopefully BWL. I've seen many rogues dropping bloodfang pieces to pick up the 4 set from Darkmantle it's just so good. I'll be able to pick up Zandalari shoulders hopefully tomorrow, and I'm already half way through collecting my darkmantle pieces. Shame the helm is the last step!
desert hazel
ah the quest is kinda fun if you have a mage at hand π
desert hazel
I don't get what you mean by perfect zone because I did almost all quests for my level in every single zone
@raven snow thats possible, when you kept leveling over your level, it's what usually happens. you need to get back on track. you either do that by grinding or by running some instance runs. I suggest the 2nd to keep the fun up
the first one usually is faster
raven snow
kk
desert hazel
for your level I suggest: Scarlet Monastery - Graveyard, Gnomeregan or Razorfen Kraul if you find people carrying you
restive fractal
OK can anyone explain how blind hit chance works. The amount of time the spell misses against enemy players in pvp is way too fucking high
fair carbon
You sure it isnβt being resisted?
restive fractal
yes it says miss
desert hazel
Never had a miss
Blind is a poison. Can be resisted. Cant miss afaik. Can be dispelled by poison dispels from druid or paladin for example
I dont know what message pops up if a shaman totem takes it
signal ember
Finally, Colluders made the farm difficult but we pushed back and wiped out horde ezpz.
a giant fuck you to rlse.
restive fractal
Why does cheap shot and kidney shot randomly turn the target around
desert hazel
Why does cheap shot and kidney shot randomly turn the target around
@restive fractal i think its meant as comfort but its really random so not helpful at all π
plush vigil
I don't think it turns the target around but there is a slight delay between entering combat and landing the stun, so if you cast a cheap shot on a mob, he will instantly turn to you because you tagged it into combat and then after a short delay it will get stunned.
From my observations some players in pvp can react to a cs or ks really fast and instaturn their character during the delay period which forces a dagger rogue to reposition to backstab and waste a bit of time
desert hazel
actually, it regularly turns its back to you when you stun. not away
desert hazel
Finally.... stats are not to be taken too serious I'm pvp specced π
and we got a tribute tabard π
in my first dungeon runs it procced like hell
wasted very very few energy points
works better with daggers than expected and I already expected it to work rather well
hushed laurel
im jealous of your DFT T.T
desert hazel
you'll get it eventually
desert hazel
yeah ok that kinda sucks. still, keep your cool and time will come π
desert hazel
we have many CTS but only 2 maladath (2 in last 3 IDs, 0 before)
hushed laurel
we've seen i think its 5 maladeths so far, 0 cts
plucky nymph
I am about to have a fucking hyperFlex O _O"
hushed laurel
it means our rogues have infinite dkp to throw at the good AQ weapons
how soon will yall be doing AQ? war effort already done etc?
plucky nymph
We're the second guild working on the Scepter quests atm on Stalagg, might have it earlier than the 11th.
hushed laurel
AQ opens wednesday morning for us, around 6 AM, jussssst in time for an extra AQ 20 reset
glad we dont have to wait a few weeks for the war effort to finish though. a few more weeks of BWL and i think half my raiders would have lost their minds
desert hazel
I am about to have a fucking hyperFlex O _O"
@plucky nymph I dont get it π probably as I'm not native english
plucky nymph
But they don't have the server pull to make that happen so I think they dropped to just the 1.
I am getting the Dirge's recipe > _>"
hushed laurel
the sweaty guild originally "promised" 3 weeks, which wasnt bad. BUT, they split and the original guild leader posted logs showing that they were gunna pop the scepter week 1 at like midnight and fuck as many people over as possible
plucky nymph
Yeah =\
hushed laurel
but, whatever, i mighta pushed for scallop lard if we had 2 weeks, but not 1 week of grinding. i like showers and sleep
plucky nymph
The guild that wanted to control shit here wanted to hold off opening for their mounts because they contributed a lot to the wareffort but there's literally no proof of that.
hushed laurel
yah, the sweaty guild DID put in all the work for the war effort. they did like... 85% of the hrode and like 60% of the alliance themselves
plucky nymph
So we're chopping 2 weeks off the wait and pushing the Alliance side turnins.
hushed laurel
they said they had 100% from both sides, but... they cant do math
plucky nymph
ha cute
hushed laurel
they "didnt know" that both factions had to do the neutral turn ins
plucky nymph
There was some original speculation that it was "shared" and not the way it is as well.
Then people were like O _O it could be 2x O _O
So I farmed more fish.
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
hushed laurel
there was enough evidence showing both sides needed it i believe, people even asked them and they said they had it no matter what
then they were about 90
*90k copper bars short
plucky nymph
oof
hushed laurel
and like 300K runecloth
they farmed it in about 30 hours
it was fucking impressive
desert hazel
sounds like our fckn server lol
hushed laurel
im honestly surprised how few servers have the war effort done
whitemane, the biggest server is still really short on mats
everyone just assumed everyone else would have it done
desert hazel
whiteman had some guild politics in their way π
plucky nymph
=\
desert hazel
our server (german server) had a merge of the biggest horde and alliance guild
they did a good job if you just look at their efforts but they fucked up all the smaller ones
hushed laurel
most of the horde guilds have xferred off pagle. think there is... 8 of us left who have cleared BWL, then a bunch of hodink other guilds
yah, shame we dont get to see a long wareffort, but 
hushed laurel
yah, people want new purples
desert hazel
and ugly bugs decorating their asses
hushed laurel
yerp
desert hazel
we had a bunch of 35+ dudes fighting and crying like babies about those ugly bugs
hushed laurel
i just want BC. can we just... skip naxx? we can do it in wotlk, right? 
desert hazel
aw c'mon, original naxx was pretty amazing π
desert hazel
i prefer it over AQ40 anytime
hushed laurel
the coolest part of naxx is how you just kinda cut the rest of your raiding for it
its so big and the gear is so good that clearing older stuff becomes mostly a waste of time
desert hazel
actually over any other instance before karazham which was pretty nice π
yeah, naxx becomes a fulltime job kinda
we'll see how it works out in classic
but it wont be a fast clear anytime soon for most guilds
hushed laurel
yerp, you still do kara in BC if you have T3, but you dont have to grind it for gear, you can start progressing SSC pretty easily
desert hazel
yeah sure but karazhan was the most fun instance experience I remember
ok clear time, cool ideas, shitload of open pvp in front of the entrance
i wonder if the community will fuck up tbc pvp as they did here. probably arena will be a very sane factor
plush vigil
I do feel like arena tbc would lose a lot of the magic touch it had during the initial release because this time around meta will be figured out much quicker and I don't expect to see such a huge comp diversity as in the original version
@desert hazel can you post your findings on DM procs on a bwl or mc run? I'm curious because my guildie got 1 proc every boss which overall resulted in a significant dps loss
desert hazel
Can do after wednesday (BWL & MC)
1 proc per boss is realistic if you're in a fast killing raid. Fortunately for testing purposes, I am in a community guild, thus we have longer fights which helps in regard of testing.
We will test both sword & dagger darkmantle
I already had some insane moments in dungeons. in BRS for example: BS BS -> 0 energy -> Proc -> Proc -> BS BS Renatakis BS BS
6 BS in just a few seconds. if these kinda things happen in short fights your dps will skyrocket
pulsar pike
Death, I dont know much about it, but how does someone gets the Darkmantle?
desert hazel
its a quest chain
quite long, costs around 1500 gold depending on your server and availability of certain mats and you need to have 8/8 shadowcraft set items to actually upgrade them
best done with a well organized team with a lockport team and a personal mage + kargath (as horde) hearthstone
took us around 7-8h but we were not rushing it
we did the whole chain 2 rogues together
with a support team of around 10 ppl on/off
but all with family at home and work and shit, so we had a lot of idle time π
desert hazel
for sword rogues its 100% worth it, it's about the same effect on your dps as getting DFT
for dagger rogues it's worth it too but its trickier
raven snow
So...is it too late to get in to classic? I know I'd be way behind the curve
desert hazel
nope, perfect timing would be now
easy catchup with ZG/AQ20, MC/BWL on PUG Prio runs and for rogue an awesome 4 set rather easy to get (darkmantle)
raven snow
Terribly afraid my lack of time to dedicate to it would have me still behind the curve
Like, I never actually played classic before and everything I watch or hear about it makes it sound like anyone with any measure of success is putting ungodly amounts of time in to it
loud tree
just have fun 
raven snow
I'll give it a go then
loud tree
it's all about the journey, not the destination π
desert hazel
its a 15 year old museum old people use to connect to other old people enjoying the museum
enjoy the ride
dense prism
as combat swords rogue i can't figure if darkmantle is really that great i have completed the whole quest chain and going with gloves, boots , shoulders and head fully buffed i have lost around 60 attack power between 4 DM and full bloodfang
desert hazel
chest not shoulders and it is worth it. just ensure you have enough hit on offset gear π
dense prism
you say chest not shoulders, but replacing bloodfang chest i end up losing 1% crit meanwhile i lose 1% dodge from replacing shoulders
i tried it last night in MC pug didn't really puch numbers as i was raid leading so couldn't focus but on dmg meeter at the end most fights i had 100-190 energy from the set bonus
desert hazel
you say chest not shoulders, but replacing bloodfang chest i end up losing 1% crit meanwhile i lose 1% dodge from replacing shoulders
@dense prism sorry, my reply was too short.
It really depends what gear options you have. if you have earthstrike ready, my reply was stupid. if you dont but have renataki's, I suggest to run head/chest/boots/gloves and ZG 2 set with shoulders/renatakis
patent harbor
Heyo, wanted to share my little Darkmantle/Stormshroud experiment with the community. I've got a video of it, can I share it in this channel?
desert hazel
if its a clean link, sure why not
patent harbor
Gonna be trying it in raid tonight with worldbuffs. The big goal was helping mitigate those unexpected hiccups that might lead to me dropping IEA, or going 5-10 seconds without SnD. But turns out it's just super fun.
desert hazel
thank you for the efforts. I am pretty sure its an insane dps drop over current BiS but depending on gear availability and purpose it sounds like fun π
definitely less problematic for alliance and sword but I still bet it's not comparable to current BiS for either faction or spec
patent harbor
I'll come throw up logs after raid, just so the community can see how it performs in current raid with buffs/consumes. There's no doubt, going from BiS daggers to this, I lose almost 200 AP, 6% crit, and a % of hit. And my build includes both IEA and Riposte, which is almost useless in raid. But if I can have a great time in raid, and then be able to turn around and tank UBRS as a meme? That's worth it π
I'm also gonna be using Heart of Wyrmthalak tonight, honestly just to see what exactly the proc rate is through logs.
desert hazel
I'm all in for testing and having fun. I like what you're doing π
Just want to be clear about it's proper raid usability to prevent illusions π
patent harbor
Heck yeah. Might do a follow up next week going back to the cookie cutter Dagger talent build, but that'll require swapping ACLG in for Stormshroud Gloves, meaning I'd have to use Stormshroud Chest, meaning I'd have to use Darkmantle Bracers. While the energy procs may be juicy, it definitely won't be like having Essence of the Red everywhere you go lol
desert hazel
how does stormshroud work? internal CD or like HoJ?
patent harbor
like HoJ, it can proc back to back, no internal
desert hazel
the proc chance of darkmantle seems to be around those 2%. I had fights from 0 to 4.12% so far
in ZG
patent harbor
and it doesn't share any cooldown reaction with Darkmantle, which behaves the same way. I think Darkmantle procs more often than Stormshroud, which is stated 2%.
untold atlas
suigh
Oh well I wont ever join rogue discord then
None of the links anywhere work
patent harbor
lol
desert hazel
erm ok whatever. I told a mod π
untold atlas
My question is it even possible obtain HoJ anymore
patent harbor
Yep
untold atlas
Nobody runs BRD
desert hazel
HoJ now drops from emp
untold atlas
So you cant solo
desert hazel
sounds like a lot of work π
patent harbor
Depends on your server and faction, but at least within your guild you should be able to put together full BRD runs. Folks are more tempted now for Ironfoe since epics have increased drop rate from end bosses
desert hazel
patent harbor
I know with my guild, just mentioning Ironfoe drums up immediate interest.
untold atlas
saids the user has been banned
desert hazel
yeah you seem to be banned then
untold atlas
ive never been there
desert hazel
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
raven snow
Wheres the rogue classic discord
untold atlas
getting HoJ is miserable now
Spent 2 hours getting to Emp
only for disband
I regret never doing it while it was on Angerforge
This is dumb as shit
raven snow
Uhhh...u fucked up fam. Sadface. Almost a year to farm and wait until the last moment. Nobody is going to do a full BRD for something they already have.
Most melee DPS have HoJ
patent harbor
I'mma do it for Ironfoe, just to flex on our maintank who's an item collector
Then get Empyrean Demolisher, go mace spec, and pvp lul off into the sunset.
untold atlas
well, I didnt know. I'm just starting a rogue. I genuinely didnt know.
But, nobody does Emperor Runs on my server. People are too busy with War Effort to help too.
patent harbor
Hey it's all good fam, don't give up heart. Learn the Lava Jump strat and put together groups for that. It shaves an hour off the runs easily.
desert hazel
as rogue you dont really need HoJ
go for Renataki's, Earthstrike, DFT, even BHB or depending on your gear + darkmantle for 2% hit DM trinket
so many more options than HoJ
jaunty stump
Juju Flurry is obsolete because of the DPS loss, right?
plucky nymph
"loss", but yeah don't use it.
signal ember
So we made rLse lose out on the first NA gong
Colluded with horde guild in pulling and killing the dragon for scepter quest.
hushed laurel
Pagle crashed cuz of silithus population. #dadserverstrong
drowsy flare
@untold atlas you can do lava jump runs, its about 10-15 mins per run, but you do need a mage
you have to do the torch area + emp room
desert hazel
Torch is easy solo as rogue. Emp room is the bitch
open cypress
blizz cant even fix pagle server so incompetant
novel plank
hushed laurel
14 hour war was a buff, not a nerf
loud tree
i knew this phase would be the most entertaining, but damn this has been so fun to watch all the drama and everything going on everywhere
hushed laurel
grizzly not getting scarab lord was some top tier shit
plucky nymph
A+++++++++++++++ Tier Memery
plush vigil
zandalar tribe has been a source of some juicy drama
raven snow
Whatβs the point of slice and dice?
plucky nymph
To do more damage.
raven snow
i mean i hit things and by the time i get enough combo points to get a decent duration on it they die
then i have to walk over to another thing and the timer still ticks
desert hazel
in raids?
if you're in a raid killing bosses so fast you cant get use of SnD you probably would know what SnD is there for π
SnD is by far your most important finisher. if you kill fast enough, use less CP
and SnD is a buff, it's not a debuff, so you keep it for your next target if you dont talk about raids
raven snow
i mean in the open world lol
desert hazel
ignore it until then
plucky nymph
SS to 5CP, EVI
Things are typically dead.
sullen oasis
Undead rogue in classic: Assassination or Combat? Which is better?
desert hazel
specify. what for?
raven snow
what does it mean if my healing potion heals 70 to 90 health?
like what determines its healing output?
desert hazel
low level? you mean the difference if its 70 or 90? RNG
signal ember
I'm currently running SF build with imp EA. 28%, definitely would see the difference as I get aq gear.
sullen oasis
specify. what for?
@desert hazel In general
hushed laurel
in general for.... what? PvE? PvP? farming gold? having a cool sounding spec name?
sullen oasis
@hushed laurel both pve and pvp
signal ember
Gotta pick one bud.
signal ember
what weapons you're going to be using too. I'm currently sealfate for pve but I play imp sprint prep daggers for PvP too.
plush vigil
Tier 0.5 seems all over the place. Some results indicate incredible procs while other rogues dps is quite underwhelming.
desert hazel
my first (not yet representative) tests show it's definitely the expected dps buff we expected and pre-calculated
will further test today, monday and wednesday
if you have the best 4 parts, play it right and have a little luck you can run insane dmg
plush vigil
The survivability you lose from less stam feels pretty bad as well
desert hazel
I agree, it's by biggest concern with it. Where it matters most (visci/huhu) you run different gear anyway though
obtuse stirrup
Can anyone confirm Tin Emps are immune to posion? looking at logs it would seem so, only posion damage logged is on the bugs during transitions
obtuse stirrup
Thank you
raven snow
Do I have to worry about poisons having charges?
desert hazel
na, get yourself a proper addon and you'll get noticed
there are plenty of weak auras or addons like poisoner and more
raven snow
I mean like, Iβm afraid Iβm gonna go through my poison supply really fast when I get them
desert hazel
get 20 at least and restock whenever you can (btw you can restock in silithus)
thats what I do and I never run out of poison
raven snow
Ok cool
novel berry
sage wasp
π€
azure briar
Best classic rogue YT content? Wanna listen/watch while grinding away π
desert hazel
in my opinion there's only one who is offering constantly good content and has all the important topics (regarding PvE) properly covered. @real archmie's Classic Roguecraft Channel and Website
https://classicroguecraft.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2BxhKsjXsmo3khodabYb5A
He also makes smaller mistakes but other than most content creators on the topic he admits and fixes shit, listens to other people, has a wide range of expert surrounding him and his community which gives good quality and range
There are alternatives that might be more entertaining depending on your taste but I am not happy at all with any of those
wooden aurora
pulsar pike
Hey guys,
Just got 33. Is it ok to level in Stranglethorn vale?
loud tree
both would be good
pulsar pike
Guys, is there any website or addon that can give me the prices of leather, cloth, average prices on AH?
I feel like I am losing money sometimes. The addon I have for AH told me to sel 20 Heavy leather for 2g.
mossy prairie
anyone got any 2 cents on what can sway me to go dagger or sword at 60? on a pvp server but ultimate wanna gear toward pve.
desert hazel
anyone got any 2 cents on what can sway me to go dagger or sword at 60? on a pvp server but ultimate wanna gear toward pve.
@mossy prairie I think the simple and short answer is: Play what you like more.
If you dont mind and like both, the next idea would be to go with whatever gear you have access to. You get perditions blade? go dagger, you get chroma sword, go sword, you get ACLG go dagger, etc.
If you want to know what's better, the answer will be veeeery long. I try to keep it super short though. Generally sword is easier, more comfortable in world farming, has nice pvp specs available and is really strong in speedruns due to its trash kill capability. it also benefits more from the current darkmantle meta
I personally prefer dagger as I enjoy dagger PvP and PvE more but if I had to chose purely based on what I find stronger, I'd go with swords by a tiny margin
and you definitely can outplay your sword rogue friends as dagger. I am surrounded by well geared swordies and dominate logs, if that's what you're looking for.
focus on understanding your class and both will work really well in all instances
mossy prairie
the idea of dagger rogue pvp appeals more, im leaning toward that for pve so it keeps that option if they sword and dagger as almost equal as you say, nice
is wowhead best source for guide to dagger?
desert hazel
hell no
its one of the worst
https://classicroguecraft.com/
I suggest this one
wowhead had many things crazy wrong
like they totally neglected the usability of renataki's in PvE at any given time, even after proving it they called out names and insisted they are right.
They even lied about vanish/trinketswap and shit like that
what is really good on wowhead is everyting written by simonize
you can 100% rely on his posts
also his sim is really good, around en par with garcia's
mossy prairie
nice thanks man
sour nebula
Hey guys, new to classic here and wondering which weapon is best for my rogue (currently 33), is it The Butcher or Tainted Pierce? both drops from trash in SM
The butcher is higher damage per hit, but slower and less dps, Tainted Pierce is more dps but less dmg per hit, idk which is best
desert hazel
https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=1053/in-the-name-of-the-light
if you're alliance
Next would be Vanquishers Sword
if you're new to classic you should go for quest weapons, not BoE and both weapons you get from above Qs outplay the ones you named
I suggest to ask someone in your guild to boost you through SM
sour nebula
can I get that quest in lvl 33?
desert hazel
Yes from 33 onwards
sour nebula
ooh, thats huge then, thanks!
desert hazel
anytime mate
raven snow
Should I go with the stealth move speed buff to make it easier to apply garrote?
desert hazel
for raids? no never
raven snow
Well Iβm probably not gonna raid so...
desert hazel
what will you do?
raven snow
Dungeons, pvp, that kinda stuff
desert hazel
Got vis, made a rogue cry because I was daggers but it was open roll bag res run.
@signal ember congratulations I guess :D
signal ember
I been trying to get a sword for long time so now I can go combat sword for a bit.
raven snow
i'm already taking opportunity for more garrote damage
raven snow
GARROTE CAN MISS?
fiery badger
I'm about to hit 60 on my rogue. Is it still worth buying Devilsaur and then getting t0 and pairing Devilsaur with t0.5? I know I have to get 9% hit which seems very hard unless I don't get more than 4 set t0.5
desert hazel
GARROTE CAN MISS?
@raven snow sure it can miss, if you are below yellow hitcap
and why are you so much into garrote? dont really get the focus on it π
I'm about to hit 60 on my rogue. Is it still worth buying Devilsaur and then getting t0 and pairing Devilsaur with t0.5? I know I have to get 9% hit which seems very hard unless I don't get more than 4 set t0.5
@fiery badger hey man, first things first: nice profile pic, way to go future pirate king ;)
On your way to grind out darkmantle (T0 respectively) I strongly suggest to get yourself devilsaur, just as its cheap, easy to get, you can wear it early (before hitting 60) and that sweet hit is just really helpful on your way to better gear
I suggest to focus on T0, ZG/AQ20 and MC runs to get yourself geared easily and all of them are way more fun with enough hit
Also get the DM:N trinket with 2% hit asap. you'll replace it soon enough but it shouldnt cost you more than a few gold
fiery badger
@desert hazel It's always great to see someone with common interests. Appreciate the feedback though! Will definitely be super useful to help make me raid ready. Thanks!
desert hazel
If we organize pickup raids to support late starters or twinks we are really chill about bad gear but people below hit cap usually is a no go π
signal ember
@raven snow Just remember that you do get 5% hit from talent in combat tree so you would need to get another 4% to make your yellow not miss.
Devilsaur sets + dire maul trinket will get you there right off the bat.
And just run much of ZG/AQ20 to get gear from quests, they're legit solid.
pulsar pike
Guys, I am lvl 34. need a sword for OH or dagger. suggestions please
going to SM right now to get the quest done and get my sword.
raven snow
Iβm into it because itβs from assassination
And assassination is the cool spec
And where I come from itβs a pretty important part of our kit
yo do i have to buy mats for poisons? if so, that's bullshit
signal ember
Yes you do
signal ember
Wore my mugger belt and acg for 10+ dagger skill
signal ember
Yeah, I would try to get acg for sure, mugger belt from dmn is up to you.
raven snow
mugger belt... hmm
signal ember
its 5+ dagger skill and 1% crit with 16 stamina on it.
signal ember
It is when you don't get weapon expertise if running sealfate
signal ember
You will never get 100% hit on white but 9% is required so your yellow doesn't miss. Still could get parried(lol) or dodged tho.
signal ember
How much hit % do I need to never miss yellow attacks (Sinister Strike/Backstab/etc.) vs raid bosses (level 63 mobs)?
300 Weapon Skill: 9%
305 Weapon Skill: 6%
315 Weapon Skill: 5% (but you generally should not aim for 315+ Weapon Skill)
This is total hit % required, so if you are playing a regular Combat raiding spec with 5/5 Precision and 2/2 Weapon Expertise, you will not miss yellow attacks (on level 63 mobs) with just 1% hit from gear.
Then all hit % beyond those values is useless?
No. This only applies to yellow attacks. Your white hits will still have a large miss % due to the Dual Wield penalty applied from wielding 2 weapons. What people commonly refer to as a "hit cap" is more accurately the absolute minimum amount of hit % you want to have. Hit % above that still improves your overall damage since it will cause more white hits to land, and white hits tend to be ~50% of your overall damage (depending on gear/fight length/and so on).
From Classic rogue discord
raven snow
there's a classic rogue discord?
signal ember
raven snow
ty
desert hazel
307 is a must, 308 nice to have, everything above nvm π
but sometimes you just dont get better stuff
signal ember
As human rogue, it is very easy to get 310 so you could skip 1 weapon expertise to get 308.
raven snow
i'm a night elf so...
desert hazel
minus could plus should π
raven snow
do you know how long that is in classic?
signal ember
about 8 hours?
raven snow
12 lol
signal ember
sounds right
raven snow
and that's with questie
signal ember
of course.
raven snow
i'm just so hype about everything
signal ember
I just would say night elf is one of the weakest choice for rogue on ally side imo
signal ember
Gnome got the escape artist which is a snare removal that can be handy for pve and pvp, dwarf can dispel bleed and poisons including blind, human get 5+ to mace and sword plus increase stealth detection
raven snow
oh yeah, i get that
signal ember
but its not going to be end of the world by going night elf
raven snow
nelf gets an extra level of stealth
signal ember
its your journey after all 
desert hazel
human makes quite a difference in PvE
but play what you enjoy
I am happy as ud π
always played UD, 15 years and no regret
raven snow
shadow priest is getting a rework so i might dust her off
signal ember
Well you can unlock doors that usually need keys
raven snow
any major examples?
signal ember
except for scholo viewing room door
signal ember
Yes, so there are lockboxes to level off for it
desert hazel
you can get to 100+ with the quest afaik
raven snow
only lockboxes i know of are the ones in the mill in redridge
signal ember
I think Darkshore on the ocean will get you going
raven snow
and redridge is really far from where i am
signal ember
I know there's lockboxes nearby bfd but I think it may be too high
raven snow
so i guess i know what i'm doing when i level up
signal ember
I know this because I leveled it there on my undead
raven snow
gonna be leveling lockpicking
honestly i'm looking forward to getting my poisons and stuff
desert hazel
its definitely worth it π
toss up between orc and undead for me
@signal ember I consider orc stronger but I just love the style π undead is very nostalgic to me, would never play anything else
signal ember
Got a good macro for it when you hit 60 to streamline applying poisons
raven snow
nice
signal ember
Yeah my OG first horde was undead rogue so I never really moved away from it since.
/use Instant Poison VI;
/use [button:1] 16; [button:2] 17;
/click StaticPopup1Button1
Change the rank of the poison and you're good to go.
signal ember
What server are you on?
raven snow
uhh let me check
signal ember
I was originally going to play as undead rogue with vanilla guild, then I decided to just play solo and meet new friends on the way like back then
signal ember
Good thing I didn't go horde with them because this is the ratio for ally/horde on it
signal ember
Yeah Netherwind aka where I am got the gate open on day 1.
First week, all turn in quests got filled within like a day then week worth of farming fragments and banged the gong on the following reset
raven snow
oh my goodness
raven snow
damn
signal ember
Now #3 and we give them the daily dose reminder
raven snow
that's cruel man
signal ember
They were paying hordes to farm us in silithus
signal ember
Because we didn't pay into the protection fee that they were offering
raven snow
i'm assuming dank buds and total disaster are rival guilds?
signal ember
I'm in TD and dank buds are like our co partner guild, we're always helping each other out.
signal ember
Well, I don't know the backstory
signal ember
but based on what I heard, TD was part of the agreement to share world bosses and TD decided to say fuck it, we're taking one dragon for ourselves
raven snow
oof
signal ember
But the pvp in silithus when we were farming fragments was nut
raven snow
i bet everyone in the whole realm was there
desert hazel
yeah it was short but intense π
desert hazel
theres still stuff to come
desert hazel
imo Naxx is the best instance
signal ember
Basically what happened on our server for opening gate in nutshell
desert hazel
and silithus, at least on my server, is still open war
our server had a huge horde/alliance coalition and we failed to prevent their mounts, unfortunately π
raven snow
maybe i'll hit 60 when TBC launches?
signal ember
Nah, Naxx should be out by then
I think its about 6 months from now for naxx
seems to be 6 months each phase
raven snow
and AQ just came out
signal ember
like 2 weeks ago
raven snow
so assuming i don't decide to try any more classes, i should hit 60 by then
desert hazel
AQ phase is kinda fun. AQ20 is super easy but offers nice loot for us if dagger and its free 99 parses too
nothing too fun over months but great for a few weeks
signal ember
Im going sword for next week to get used to aq then back to daggers
raven snow
well i'm just taking my time and enjoying the content
desert hazel
at least rogue doesn't seem to have much RNG in classic
@raven snow rogue just won their biggest RNG actually π
raven snow
????
desert hazel
darkmantle is huge RNG
signal ember
All I need from aq20 is the crossbow off last boss and the rep for rest of the crafted loot
desert hazel
but its so much fun
raven snow
darkmantle?
raven snow
oh
desert hazel
on hit energy gain proc
signal ember
T0 to T.05 aka Darkmantle
raven snow
oh
desert hazel
biggest fun in raids since start
raven snow
so basically relentless strikes but for autoattacks?
desert hazel
yeah well put
raven snow
i want relentless strikes
signal ember
Super good for sword, decent for dagger.
desert hazel
renatakis + darkmantle + tea + AQ20 3set -> insanity
raven snow
but i have to upgrade fucking malice
i could've gotten it by now but i went for improves sinister strike
desert hazel
I am dagger and Diususus is right, it's definitely worse than with swords but doesnt change the fun π
signal ember
yeah you want improves sinister strike anyway
desert hazel
I had a 99 run today with a 100 parse and I'm dagger
signal ember
Im going to start building my trinket as the mojo of madness is pretty cheap now.
desert hazel
you'll love it
signal ember
as dagger for pvp, yes I will
desert hazel
for dagger it's still pre AQ40 BiS if you get BSIX
signal ember
Yeah I already got the BS9.
desert hazel
today we got 3 in one run
raven snow
good
raven snow
i want ruthlessness and relentless strikes to make things go faster
signal ember
No point stealthing until you get cheap shot imo
desert hazel
but if you want to push a level or two dont
even then, well specced you're better off in most situation not stealthing
raven snow
i could have ruthlessness if i didn't put 2 points in combat
desert hazel
actually you should put everything in combat π
raven snow
combat doesn't interest me though
signal ember
when I had my undead rogue at 30, I was leveling as sub with imp bs and remoreness strike
so I had like 90% chance of crit ambush with 35% backstab crit, so I usually just burst through mobs and players.
raven snow
holy shit
signal ember
can' t remember what daggers I had tbh
desert hazel
I leveled with my wife her ein classic and we just rushed 60 as we started late
raven snow
nice
signal ember
oh yeah the metor shard from sfk, I had that.
raven snow
i'm just leveling on my own
raven snow
also i love how greens drop like candy in darkshore
signal ember
well you just got really good rng
raven snow
well, a couple were from quests
one was cloth
the other was a wand lol
both were random drops
i'm at level 7 in enchanting
signal ember
As fresh toon, I would strongly encourage to take up herb or mining paired with skinning or you could do mining/herb but you only can track one node at a time
and just sell everything on AH that you can.
raven snow
enchanting will benefit me late-game though
because it'll give me things like resistances
signal ember
Yeah but it won't benefit you as much because there's lot of enchanters with patterns and such.
raven snow
what should i take as my other profession?
signal ember
You still can DE and sell the mats tho at least which is what Im doing right now, Im farming dungeon for herb/chests for boe to de and sell.
raven snow
it's a pvp server so maybe i can sell mining stuff for engineering?
signal ember
herb will always be in demand compared to ore.
signal ember
but I sold lot of solid stones which is easily farmable in badland, just a lap around zone and you get a stack or so
which is used for OP grenade aka sapper.
raven snow
oh
i've heard a bit about those
but yeah, people need a lot of potions for raids, i hear they're pretty challenging
signal ember
challenging
AQ40 was semi first challenge with vic and ouro, but more guilds are starting to use nature/poison resists for it which help with the fight.
raven snow
and c'thun was bugged
signal ember
I would say it was still ez back then, there wasn't much resources back in vanilla compared to today
desert hazel
visc still is challenging to many
desert hazel
well, its always easy on paper π
he's ridiculously easy for speedrun guilds with 40 engis
he isnt for casual guilds
raven snow
well i'll get to AQ someday
desert hazel
you sure will
raven snow
when i decide to raid lol
i'll do them a few times, see the content
there are a few fights in particular i want to see
ragnaros, razorgore, red dragon guy from BWL, c'thun
desert hazel
you will
they are all super easy, so you can see them the day you hit 60
onyxia will take longer than them
because of the Q XD
raven snow
oh god, i forgot about onyxia
signal ember
At least ally onyxia questline is ez
raven snow
you know what's funny?
the bosses i want to see are some of the hardest bosses in classic history lol
raven snow
yeah
ragnaros is gonna be tough
i'm not gonna underestimate anything
this game will kick your ass if you're not careful
it's like WoW mixed with dark souls
desert hazel
Ragnaros is very easy
swift narwhal
anyone know a macro for pickpocket before X spell?
raven snow
Iβve always heard you had to have a level of fire resistance minimum
desert hazel
#showtooltip Cheap Shot
/cast Pick Pocket
/cast Cheap Shot
raven snow
i feel like murder's a trap talent like improved rend
desert hazel
and yes, it IS that easy
murder is dead since AQ
murder was insanely good before that
desert hazel
flat 2% dmg increase
raven snow
that's 2%
desert hazel
its a lot
raven snow
ONLY AGAINST CERTAIN ENEMY TYPES
desert hazel
before AQ it was against practially all bosses
upgrading to DFT is around 1/2 murder for most people
raven snow
DFT?
raven snow
oh
desert hazel
best trinket
raven snow
oh ok
i just don't see how 2% is that good
if you encounter any other enemy type it does nothing
desert hazel
but you dont encounter them in any instance before AQ
raven snow
including dungeons?
i mean there HAS to be a few demons scattered around or elementals somewhere
desert hazel
I dont want to be rough but for most relatively serious players dungeons dont matter
you see, many dungeons are done solo these days
raven snow
what?
desert hazel
they are so easy
raven snow
even stratholme?
desert hazel
nobody cares for talents
if we go strat with a 5 man grp we rush it in 20 mins
its not comparable with vanilla
gotta sleep π its 2.20 here, enjoy mate, see you soon
raven snow
do the practice lockboxes in alther's mill have to freeze you? sheesh
swift narwhal
@desert hazel will that auto cast CS or will it be a 2 press button
nvm got it working tybm
desert hazel
π you dont have to wait for the animation
it'll happen in 95% of all times without you seeing anything happens but you actually pickpocket anyway
swift narwhal
yeah its better than i expected lol
do you have a lsit of decent useful macros in clkassic
desert hazel
nah not really. I make macros for all my abilities. some mousover like blind, kick, etc, every CP builder has a startattack macro, stuff like that. spammable SAP but I dont really have an overview at hand
swift narwhal
lemme get that spammable sap when u get a min >.>
desert hazel
sure will but I'm around with my kid π
raven snow
At what level should I start pickpocketing mobs for lock boxes?
desert hazel
just auto pickpocket, always, forever, even way into endgame
it's not hurting you at all
its easy and adds quite some buck to your leveling as well
do it for all your stealth openers
easy money, easy lockpick leveling
desert hazel
yeah people dont like hitler1488 by some reason, wonder why XD
swift narwhal
"analgapes"
desert hazel
lol dude why?
#showtooltip Sap
/cast [nocombat,nostealth] Stealth
/targetenemy [noexists]
/cast [@target, exists, harm] Sap; Sap
/cleartarget
swift narwhal
yeah idk its amusing to sell in trade on "thundercock"
desert hazel
you know, you could just use normal naming :X
swift narwhal
im going for my classic experience
i have a toon i named after a famous ninja looter from my old first realm ever
what a load of crap tho
oh well feetpicsxx is a good name too
desert hazel
you need a girlfriend mate π
swift narwhal
I got one im good
Im helping people relive the ideal classic experience, like getting ninjad by a dwarf named fatdickwad
raven snow
I named my char ethelyne
quiet prawn
So I took a couple months off classic but I stockpiled all of the mats and full dungeon set to be able to come back and get my full darkmantle. I have a brutality blade for sword spec and Gutgore ripper for my dagger spec with ACLG. Was Darkmantle still deemed as good as it was before P5 hit? The way my weapon situation is I can go swords or daggers just whatever darkmantle is better for / what weapons I can get
desert hazel
darkmantle is pretty big
it works exactly as expected and definitely better for swords in comparison
but it works well for dagger too
quiet prawn
Sick, Iβll stick to swords then because I enjoy the gameplay better
swift narwhal
Tbh i feel like playing for classic gameplay at this point is over
Preppin for huge tbc
desert hazel
eh no
raven snow
same lol
does expose armor make a difference in damage for you guys?
i don't think it really helps me
quiet prawn
desert hazel
imp. expose armor is endgame raiding stuff @raven snow
No reason using it before.
fjeenzy gets it absolutely right, also about the specs for non speedrun top guilds
dont copy their strats if they dont suit your raid π
for leveling, run it straight forward, you will be faster and in the end have more fun
they just updated stats on wclogs and I had a rather nice week
AQ20 is trashy fun but AQ40 was ok as well, I'm a bit surprised about that with our raid π
hushed laurel
AQ20 is such a breath of fresh air compared to ZG
desert hazel
i enjoyed ZG but obviously i've seen enough. with AQ20 its fun again but will run out soon π
honestly, I just run it because I dont have the time to grind rep with a kid, fulltime job and sports
hushed laurel
its a lot faster than ZG is, and flows much better, a lot of the time spent is just doing rajax
AQ40 trash is a lot nicer as well, though post twin emps stuff is a bit of a drain
desert hazel
I agree, we're still crazy slow in both raids.
I raid with a community guild (all swiss people and they are rare lol) but we have a very good raidlead and some exceptional players.
AQ40 still takes us 3h. AQ20 is above the 1h mark which just isnt closes as fast as it could be
signal ember
well Darkmantle came with P5 but its solid until you get T2.5
plucky nymph
Solid after that as well.
I will probably just try for highrolls until no one else needs the 2.5 pieces.
desert hazel
in terms of dps its around en par with full T2.5 but T2.5 offers more stable dmg and, even more important to me, a way better life pool
i pass on all T2.5 tokens for around 3 months tho to get all other classes geared
P5 has a strong weapon focus for me
back and waist are situational grabs
and I skip JG completely. Naxx' Kiss is what I want, so I can easily skip on JG
sour nebula
anyone have a good swing timer to reccomend? either addon or weakaura
desert hazel
classicswingtimer works well
quiet prawn
I use the weakaura from wago.io that shows an energy bar with a regen tick, combo points on top, and a swing timer underneath it
swift narwhal
link WA lol
swift narwhal
can you get a pickpocket/auto attack line into every ability?
pickpocket obviously only if applicable
desert hazel
how should that work? pack pickpocket in every stealth opener, thats it
pulsar pike
is it worth to put Fiery or Crusader on Thrash Blade as I am leveling? Actually, is it possible, first of all?
pulsar pike
Does someone have a youtube channel to suggest for Classic PVP for rogue?
I have seen a lot of channels for rogue, but mainly pvp
pve*
solid basin
maybe perplexity but i dunno how many videos he has
raven snow
hello guys! i wanted ask you an info: subtetly rogue for pve is so horrible?
solid basin
yep
drowsy flare
@pulsar pike fiery is quite good
desert hazel
hello guys! i wanted ask you an info: subtetly rogue for pve is so horrible?
@raven snow Only really works for Hemo/Imp. Eviscarate on a competitive level but you're out for dmg, you really become one of the most important dudes of the raid but your dmg output is gimped and for most guilds I strongly suggest a combat imp. EA build over Hemo
is it worth to put Fiery or Crusader on Thrash Blade as I am leveling? Actually, is it possible, first of all?
@pulsar pike fiery is ok, crusader is way overkill π
pulsar pike
Thanks !!!
desert hazel
I dont think I would make a proper one with hemo/EA as I've never run it
And I definitely do not suggest it for 99% of the raids/rogues, I would suggest a simple imp EA combat swords build
For daggers EA is dead anyway
Best for top raids probably is either Hemo or seal fate imp. EA but that simply doesnt work for other raids.
The Idea of SF or Hemo Builds is to have imp. EA faster on the boss, like in 3s instead of 7 or 8 sec but if you dont have 34+ warris/rogues in your raid that doesnt matter too much, you're better off with a combat imp. EA or no imp. EA at all (you dont need imp. EA to play well, it just makes the difference of making a new world record or not π )
SF is not advisable by any means to normal raids as you need full world buffs or you're screwed and useless
solid basin
i wouldn't recommend imp ea unless you're going for speed runs, and only the hemo or SF variant if your raid group is really fast among speedrun groups
desert hazel
exactly
solid basin
if you wanna use it as an excuse to raid in pvp spec that's a different story maybe π
desert hazel
I would be the only one interested in running imp. EA in my raid but I'm dagger and I, by far, make the most dmg in our raid, so we are better off not running it at all even though we would clearly benefit from it.
It was a rather hard decision but I push not to do it
if you wanna use it as an excuse to raid in pvp spec that's a different story maybe π
@solid basin with most build you're screwed for both then π
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/2053201250013-2-500253000330121
that would be a dope support build for battlegrounds. obviously you're crap in the raid but if your raid just wants to add imp. EA (even tho that's a silly stance) it would add a ton of fun to your game π
run this with a warrior in your team and you'll have a party every AB and in your raid you just state "hey I'm your EA slave, I dont deal damage anyway" XD
plucky nymph
Yummy DKP.
pulsar pike
How viable is it to Raid with PVP spec?
And pvp, what is better: swords or daggers??
mossy prairie
Does anyone have a link to what talents i should be using as a fresh 60 human rogue?
desert hazel
How viable is it to Raid with PVP spec?
@pulsar pike absolutely not viable. it's ridiculously bad
And pvp, what is better: swords or daggers??
@pulsar pike that highly depends what you prefer.
for BG support (really strong actually) I suggest sword.
For small team fights I think Sword might be better too, as Hemo is really nice for control, you have more CP and less energy drops
For Burst performance and thus single player to a certain degree (sword is viable too 1v1) dagger is better,
I play dagger most of the time as I like the playstyle but I definitely consider sword specs (there are many variations, incl. seal fate, etc) to be stronger in terms of BG teamplay
Does anyone have a link to what talents i should be using as a fresh 60 human rogue?
@mossy prairie https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/305303105-3210052020050150131
this is mostly for AQ
which even as a freshy should be your focus if you get access to it
if you only run other stuff, add Murder again
signal ember
psh, after playing daggers for so long, its hard not seeing the big thicc backstab crit.
But for starting, swords would be the best route to go and you can grab your pugio and aq20 daggers to switch daggers if you want to go down that route.
Mirah song is an excellent offhand and easy to get from scholo questline, that will tide you over until you get hakkar offhand.
and sword of zeal is great boe sword that you can buy for MH if you don't want to shell out for krol blade.
pulsar pike
@desert hazel Thanks death!'
desert hazel
No problem mate
@diususus inputs are pretty dope
The new quest reward sword vom sili is sick af too.
2.8 blue q reward
signal ember
Yeah that's also a viable choice, forgot about that.
quiet prawn
This with +15 or Scarlet kris with +15 for the stats (Have a mirahs as well but kris is more of a stat boost, but losing out on sword spec procs)
2.80 is kinda slow oh
desert hazel
no, Mirah's. easily around 10 dps more
Ravenholdt MH, Mirahs OH
Ravenholdt is not an OH
you can wear it but that's odd
what do you have in MH if you ask about OH only?
quiet prawn
Brutality blade
desert hazel
clearly Mirah's. Ravenholdt will drop your DPS by >10
Kris would be better than Ravenholdt but clearly worse than Mirah's
quiet prawn
Gotcha, thanks man
desert hazel
no problem π
pulsar pike
Guys, I am leveling with Skinning and Mining. Skinning is making me some money. I took mining only because I thought is was necessary for Engineering later on, I will swap skinning with eng.
But I have been told to drop mining either for Herbalism (makes more gold) or enchanting.
I always thought that you need Mining to do Engineering. Isn't it the case?
desert hazel
you need the ressources for engineering, you can buy them
engineering is a cheap profession
Herb makes most constant money I'd say
mining can make you money too with arcane crystals
enchanting is a great moneymaker but only if you have access to rare recipes
otherwise its not really that great for money
might depend a bit in the server
I run Engineering/Mining on my main, Engineering/Herb on all alts
but I rarely alt π
pulsar pike
Think I will just drop skinning for engineering then on 60
desert hazel
engineering is dope af in endgame
I would never drop it
in PvP its incredibly strong and often makes the difference between win or loss in 1vX situations but also in team fights
and in PvE it has an impact on many encounters, especially trash for speedruns, etc.
atm its sick for Visci and overall it's really nice to protect your worldbuffs on your way to an instance run
there's a reason why most speedrun guilds state it as a must have
main reason are sapper charges
raven snow
Renetaki vs earthstrike on bosses?
desert hazel
depends
sword ES pretty much always except incredibly short kill times
dagger with Backstab IX, Renatakis is still strong with most kill times
without Backstab IX go Earthstrike
unique wasp
Hi! I just got Jom Gabbar. Super happy and thankful, but I cant seem to find a weakaura to track it. I've been looking everywhere (I think) and I dont have the brains to make one myself. Is there anyone in here with a Jom Gabbar WA? Appreciate it
plucky nymph
@unique wasp What do you need it to do?
unique wasp
@plucky nymph I just would like a WA that tracks the stacks of the trinket. Basically the exact same way the buff is, just moveable in a WA
unique wasp
Didnt work at all unfortunatly, but I appreciate you trying! @plucky nymph
plucky nymph
@unique wasp How didn't it work?
covert ledge
pulsar pike
always
desert hazel
Anyone alive π
@covert ledge undead, thanks, and you?
pulsar pike
Can someone share the macro for start attack, SS + riposte, please?
signal ember
So I simmed and found that going sword with my setup is bis. At least all other rogues have zero interest in daggers so first dibs.
Just gotta get my darkmantle going
plucky nymph
O _O π¦
signal ember
Still need my shoulders but my guild is full of gamers so will be getting hoj too.
desert hazel
I run almost full pre AQ40 BiS daggers with Renataki's (due to BSIX it's better) but I miss the AQ20 dagger to run the 3set but have everything else
Works well, and imo it's more fun than sword but sword is definitely stronger atm. only DS can level that and even that's a close call
signal ember
Yeah I think I will just do daggers for naxx, seems to be easier overall in naxx than aq imo
my first 40 performance was poor but again first time doing actual aq40 at relevant level
However once I get a DS, I will go back to daggers
tender frigate
Is rogue a fun class in classic
im thinking of trying out classic for the first time
quiet prawn
Itβs definitely more class fantasy
signal ember
If you're looking to dps max, I would go fury warrior. Otherwise rogue is a fun class and still my main class for 15 year.
desert hazel
Is rogue a fun class in classic
@tender frigate it is. Right now you have options. In current phase you have rather good roster of fun classes/specs and rogue is easy to catch up currently
daring coyote
can anyone link a sim spreadsheet
i want to figure out if cht or perd sims better in oh with mh pugio
nvm
mossy prairie
my current weps are assassination blade + hanzo sword and I just received skullforge reaver as a drop would that be an upgrade on either of these?
plucky nymph
Tied with Assassination Blade for MH, worse for OH.
mossy prairie
tyvm
quiet prawn
Stepped away from BfA for a bit and back to classic to finish up what I started
desert hazel
hey man. what did you throw in as darkmantle mix? it looks a bit off with T2 head which is one of the top dm picks
jolly grove
hey guys, i havent played since i got the pre-raid bis items a cople of months ago, i remeber there was a BiS list
but i cant find it can someone link me a good bis list
desert hazel
BiS lists are usually pretty silly and they are quite obsolete by now anyway
What BiS list are you looking for? BiS pre raid? incl. or exl. AQ20 and ZG? incl. rep items? incl. T0.5?
you'll get support but we need to better understand what you really need. you can find BiS lists on wowhead but imo they won't help you much
mossy prairie
Is it possible to obtain the ogre warbeads for 0.5 quest solo?
quiet prawn
@desert hazel Iβm using bracers, boots, gloves, and hands until I finish the chain and get the chest and helm
desert hazel
Is it possible to obtain the ogre warbeads for 0.5 quest solo?
@mossy prairie yes, it just takes more time
quiet prawn
Those 4 are an upgrade from what I had before, but it can still be upgraded
desert hazel
Ah I see. well that makes sense then π head and chest are really worth it, so good luck in getting them soon π
mossy prairie
@desert hazel what would you suggest as fastest method? DM north with group i assume?
jaunty stump
Grab a few DPS and possibly a healer and just clear trash in DM North, run out & reset. We did 3 of ours (75 beads total) in about 2-3 hours
desert hazel
@desert hazel what would you suggest as fastest method? DM north with group i assume?
@mossy prairie yes. it took us less than 1 full run per person
as i've done it several times now for my rogue buddies I found it fastest to kill the ogres in the entrance part and where the first boss is, then reset
but full runs are fine too, its a matter of minutes
mossy prairie
awesome tyvm
pulsar pike
Guys, I got lvl 40. I have a friend that is a mage level 60. He offered to boost me on Zul Farrak. I have a few doubts. Is it worth it? And how the hell do I follow the mage path at that instance as a lvl 40 rogue? Because they do not aggro all the mobs from the start.
signal ember
Pretty sure you can afk at start.
desert hazel
yeah that works if he knows what he's doing and he probably does, it's super standard
pulsar pike
Wait, I get xp if I afk on start? even if he is killing the tomb zombies so far away?
desert hazel
try it out, I think you can find a safespot very early in the instance and still get xp
pulsar pike
Ok. Will do that during this week, thanks!
desert hazel
have fun and let these xp rain π
raven snow
can anyone link me white crit cap calc pls
desert hazel
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NWKnSmYseruEUb06wOYbWHS6IxriHNd7E2fkBRBXxLY/copy
This probably helps you
dusk bridge
Hey folks,
Just a little poll about rogues on Classic TBC
Which team composition would you recommend to a ROGUE that wants to start 2v2 on Classic TBC?
β‘οΈ https://www.strawpoll.me/20829083
dusk crystal
desert hazel
I prefer dd/dd
but dont mind 2s much
2s is a timekiller and it's really fun but whatever
will never be balanced thus always a bit freak game
loud tree
double dps is always nice because win or loss they're gonna be a lot faster and less drawn out than mana battles
I picked spriest/rogue because that's what I got glad with and the CC chains you can pull off are really fun
desert hazel
its the only heal/dd comp I'd play really. it's quite offensive
me (rogue) and my wife (disc) did well but no glad. got all my top ratings, be it 2s or 3s with pure dd teams
we never had any glad team in tbc but we held 3v3 NΒ°1 for some weeks with shadow/affli/shadowstep (the funnier shadowcomp π ) but never kept a team long and tbc and the system back then had you chose: keep your team for title/dragon or have fun and try out stuff.
as we've been writing guides and shit we had trouble keeping teams and I never found it fun anyway.
never looked back
jolly grove
hey guys yesterday i got the perdition blade but i dont have a second dagger, is there an easy to get dagger from a quest or something so i can switch from swords to daggers
something equivalent to mirah's song
maybe julie's dagger ?
desert hazel
hey π if you dont have ACLG yet, it's a nobrainer: Distracting dagger
if you have ACLG or mugger's belt you have options. CHT, Faceless, Vael dagger, there are many good options.
without enough weapon skill, distracting dagger is by far your best bet though
granite escarp
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/28798/is-it-true
Found a small piece of history from December 2004
signal ember
for pre raid bis dagger for offhand, if you have ACG or mugger belt, you can opt for bonescraper for more AP with same speed attack as distracting blade.
dusk bridge
@dusk crystal no votes goes in favor of RL because it's actually quite hard to play it. The vote is more oriented on what u'd recommand for a beginner, i think that explains why dps/healer is more popular in this vote.
@loud tree agree with you : double DPS is more fun and quicker. (nice about being glad with SPR β€οΈ btw ! which season ?)
REPOSTING
Poll about rogues on classic tbc
Which team composition would you recommend to a ROGUE that wants to start 2v2 on Classic TBC?
β‘οΈ Vote here : https://www.strawpoll.me/20829083
Thanks for your help !
plucky nymph
No.
quiet prawn
I just want the OH hakkari warblade thats all I ask 
plucky nymph
GL π
pulsar pike
Guys, at lvl 40. What should I have for MH and OH as a dwarf rogue?
desert hazel
π
pulsar pike
Is there any other Equipment that I can get to carry me for a few levels?
desert hazel
nah, MH weapon is the single most important item
rest is not worth your time investment really
pulsar pike
fair
desert hazel
just start doing dungeons from ~54 upwards. you can start before that with temple but I suggest to quest/grind to lvl 54 then BRD/LBRS
pulsar pike
what are BRD/LBRS? Sorry for the stupidity xD
final patrol
Black rock depths and lower black rock spire. @pulsar pike
pulsar pike
π
quiet prawn
Oh I only play human on retail, Iβm orc male in classic for that zug zug gameplay
mossy prairie
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19898/seal-of-jin
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19384/master-dragonslayers-ring
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=22722/seal-of-the-gurubashi-berserker
which is best considering im hit capped?
extra ap better than crit?
worn quail
Prolly master dragon slayers
desert hazel
Seal of Jin but dont misunderstand "hit cap"
it's not like having enough hit means hit will not give you any further benefits
Hit is really important, it increases your crit cap and having less miss helps you not only with more white dmg but also with darkmantle procs
and it's really hard to give out proper answers when we only know some basic information about some slots/stats. best you sim it yourself to get an accurate answer or give us better insight about your spec, gear, etc
mossy prairie
Happy to give more info with the gear I have at my disposal, but don't want to spam
wish I could link something like armory haha
im unsure what pits of tier i should best mix with dark mantle to achieve 4 set and best stats, but i dont have the darkmantle chest or head yet
desert hazel
mossy prairie
sick ill ifll that after this wsg tyvm!
desert hazel
I still suggest to use a sim like garcia's
there are other viables
I only consider garcia's and simonize's good though
but we can sim for you if you show us your gear
you can also instead of entering the gear link a warcraftlog from you
where we can see your gear
i will be off now though (its almost 1 a.m. in central europe)
glad to help tomorrow π