O _O
#classic-discussion
cursive ridge
fucking yikes
maiden cave
@royal topaz barman is trash tier, you should pick up Distracting Dagger and go Bonescraper+DD for raids if you want to maximize DPS
the DPS spreadsheet gives you a good idea of that
teal jetty
What would be a good MH Dagger for Pre-Raid
tough pilot
@teal jetty look above they just had this discussion I believe.
teal jetty
@tough pilot i saw that but both of them daggers are really fast, shouldnt you have a slower MH dagger?
One dagger is a 1.40 and other is 1.30
maiden cave
for raiding it still does great because the attacks are normalized and it has high dps + good stats
if you use the DPS spreadsheet, you'd see
teal jetty
@maiden cave ty, guess time to farm DM W
plucky nymph
GL >_>
Without ACLG
Bone+DD - 822 20
Bar+DD - 813 77
Bar+Bone - 789 22
under 1% between Bonescraper+DD and Barman+Bonescraper, use what you have and don't get bent out of shape over DD not dropping.
With ACLG
Bone+DD 830 64
Bar+DD 821 98
Bar+Bone 820 18
@teal jetty ^^^
royal topaz
@maiden cave ty!
plucky nymph
The above numbers also relate to you @feral prairie , Barmans isn't "trash tier" even according to their spreadsheet after you get ACLG.
shadow tapir
I think Hanbi was referring to the barman's effect when he meant trash tier
It wont takea debuff slot
Idk why they call it that, feel like no priority would be better
plucky nymph
That's more like tables, the Bloodmoon spreadsheet is the thing people tend to refer to when they talk spreadsheets.
and yeah the DoT is doodoo but also such a small thing that it doesn't factor into anything other than being annoying in PVP sometimes.
royal topaz
where can i find that?
plucky nymph
and if Hanbi was talking about the DoT he should be more verbose in that regard and not give such advise.
@royal topaz Can find it here;
Check the pins and since THEY'RE CLEARLY STILL IN FUCKING 2008 AND HOSTING IT ON MEDIAFIRE
shadow tapir
Well its a priority system for debuff slots and weapon debuffs are called "trash tier"
plucky nymph
be careful what you click.
Yeah most of the weapon procs are poor, doesn't make the weapon trash tier though.
shadow tapir
plucky nymph
Yeah.
shadow tapir
Im saying he wasnt calling the weapon trash lol
Referring to the debuff being considered trash priority
plucky nymph
Then he should take his own advice and be more accurate.
Anyway, the proc is doodoo, no one is gonna say otherwise.
royal topaz
thanks guys π
plucky nymph
π
hell yeah fight stupid scores
Also, how can GearScore be DYNAMIC, probably just their wording, boo still... boo.
signal ember
The fact that barman is 2.0 with higher damage end is nice
drowsy phoenix
gotta hit the fat ambush
plucky nymph
Going from Barman to Perditions is like
O _O π¦
am I cheating...
plucky nymph
hushed laurel
yah, the ony hotfix made us sad. went down like... 30 minutes before we headed over there
glad someone caught it ahead of time i guess
we ended up losing like... a ton of dps to stupid shit and having a 7 minute ony
which was...amusing
hushed laurel
FC isn't happy. I think they are looking at deep breath next
plucky nymph
Yeah well, it's fixed, welcome to reality.
hushed laurel
Look, threat being wiped off the youngest character or whatever is totally how vanilla WoW sounds like it would work. I wanna live in that reality. Also the one where we get weapon drops in our raids, I want that too
plucky nymph
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah
hushed laurel
We've gotten 2 gutgores, 2 mageblades (which is great obviously) and 2... Earthshakers or whatever it's called. Living the shit weapon life real hard
plucky nymph
I think we've gotten more Vendorstrikes than Earthshakers and we're giving them all to one person.
primal arch
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=18392/distracting-dagger
or
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=24222/the-shadowfoot-stabber
in off hand for combat daggers?
dusk crystal
quite sure distracting is better
plucky nymph
DD is the winner there as far as anyone can tell.
hollow glen
Hey guys, did anyone notice that mind numbing poison doesn't seem to work against Scarlet Diviners in SM?
I tried it and no matter what their cast was 3 seconds on stuff.
With or without poison.
plucky nymph
Which spell?
hollow glen
Mind Numbing Poison. Spell doesn't matter.
They cast mana burn in 3s no matter what.
Or other shit.
Same applies to other spells which made me think that poison is bugged somehow.
Maybe I'm wrong but would be nice for someone to definitely confirm that.
plucky nymph
Yeah I was asking to make sure it was actually a spell as some "cast tracking" shows things that are not spells.
hollow glen
Poison says '40% longer spellcasting' and I haven't felt any significant increase whatsoever.
plucky nymph
Mana Burn SHOULD be increased though >_>
hollow glen
Either that or Renew.
I also noticed it not working on other mobs I think. Like some heals that they put out.
plucky nymph
Have you seen it interact like this on PLAYERS as well?
hollow glen
No, didn't test. Which made me think if it's only PvP poison or not.
But curse of tongues of warlock should work in Pve, so does poison.
Maybe it's intended, but damn that's misleading really.
Everything should work in pve.
plucky nymph
That would never be the case, as slowing down boss casts would be broken.
hollow glen
You can freaking stun mini bosses with pala hammer in Scholomance, so why not increase cast time.
plucky nymph
In a lot of ways.
Could just make the boss immune to the application of the poison, but this is Vanilla and not everything is gonna make sense.
hollow glen
I think that mind numbing worked even on raid bosses/dungeon bosses in TBC but don't quote me on that coz private server.
I mean, crippling poison does work perfectly on them, so why not mind numbing? It's my reasoning.
Just talking about trash now.
Agree about bosses, they're mostly immune, makes sense.
But stupid trash is immune.
plucky nymph
Mind-numbing also has a very low proc chance and shares an icon design so making sure what you saw is ACTUALLY the poison is important, go find a caster to PVP and see though.
If it doesn't work AT ALL, report that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
hollow glen
I hovered over the debuff icon with default UI and it clearly said 'mind numbing poison', no mistake about that.
plucky nymph
k
hollow glen
Tested with no poison and then I applied poison and waited until they started casting, no meaningful change at all, about 3 seconds always.
plucky nymph
People make mistakes, nothing wrong with checking.
hollow glen
I reported this as well.
But I'm kinda not sure about this, no other reports found online, maybe people don't use it or I'm seeing things.
plucky nymph
There's no sense in using it in dungeons, no, so odds of people seeing it is low.
hollow glen
Well, if you have many casters that mana burn, it does kinda make sense, but as you said. Wouldn't be surprised if it only works in world PvP but it's not explained.
plucky nymph
nah just kick it :P
Crippling is more important to make sure you don't get bad runners but has an equally shit proc rate and doesn't really ever fucking help... usually.
hollow glen
Yes, I know. Been using crippling + numbing at the time and was frustrated coz numbing felt useless.
Coulda have instant + crippling.
plucky nymph
Who cast Renew? It's instant everywhere I see > _>
hollow glen
In PvP it is lol.
But every mob in the game that casts renew has it on cast.
Chaplains cast renew I think.
I guess the point is if it was instant it would be kinda too strong.
plucky nymph
Nah there's an instant one, though you are right those due have a cast time.
Probably the cause of the fuckery.
Mana Burn though, who knows.
hollow glen
Doesn't wowhead just pull out player ability?
I am 100% positive that renew has like 2s cast time in case of NPC mobs.
plucky nymph
Nah there's ranks associated with those.
hollow glen
At least those in dungeons.
plucky nymph
and there ARE 2 second cast Renews.
hollow glen
Yea so I guess some renews are instant and you don't see it in cast bars, true.
plucky nymph
Who fucking knows. Β―_(γ)_/Β―
hollow glen
Like nagas in BFD or something.
Or those mobs that instant cast and heal.
But the point still stands, game is lying to me π
plucky nymph
There's an animation associated with the SM ones, so you ASSUME there's a cast, but it might just be an attached animation, though I am pretty sure they cast it at the end and not the beginning.
Like, 99% sure.
hollow glen
I see cast bar with classic cast bar mod and there's a progress on renew, so it has to be casted in time.
But maybe it's how you say. It has 'animation' but it's not treated as normal cast and therefore immune to any type of slow down.
Well anyway, no biggie really. Submited a report, we'll see. As I haven't seen uproar anywhere about this, I guess poison works mostly as intended. Thanks for your time.
ember verge
anyone playing on Faerlina in classic can't login?
i saw the server juggle offline/online and now it's online but i get insta dc'd
shadow tapir
Baron and Rag are immune to poison right
plucky nymph
Ye Elementals and all.
shadow tapir
k ty
shadow tapir
Not Baron? Weird
plucky nymph
Hand of Justice Testing
Using Bloodmoon 1.9 Simsheet and the following items;
HoJ @ 2% (2 procs) - 494 59
HoJ @ 1.5% (1 proc) - 491 93
HoJ @ 1% (1 proc) - 489 51
Rune of the Guard Captain - 489 65
Royal Seal - 487 76
Counterattack Loadstone - 485 82
fiery fog
oh shit another insomnia in the wild.
split ore
@plucky nymph Could you send me that spreedsheet?
Please c:
nevermind, found the up to date one!
scenic mortar
Hi, is there any good spreadsheet out there? Im trying to figure out wether 5p SC is worth it over other pre-bis pieces
maiden cave
(the good bonus is 6pc SC)
@scenic mortar there are 2 different spreadsheets on the rogue classic discord
ruby bridge
It's still weird to me that classic rogues went back to spreadsheets and even separate the self with a discord server
maiden cave
people went "back to spreadsheets" because the sim for classic is not very good yet
manic hound
What's the alternative to spreadsheets? I haven't seen a sim service talked about anywhere for classic.
maiden cave
versed cedar
hm... okay, ill check that π
versed cedar
okay, thats pretty comfortable
earnest cipher
Can some1 explain how increasing weapon skill above 300 affects hit rating
wraith parcel
wraith parcel
no
earnest cipher
Yeah that doesnt make sense
wraith parcel
Its the difference
earnest cipher
What do you mean
scenic mortar
Thanks
ruby bridge
@manic hound yes, there is no sim for classic bc. ppl rather adopt old spreadsheets and update those.
The reason is quite straight forward. its a lot less work and requires lower expertise.
earnest cipher
Well and theres no classic armory
Which is what a lot of sim sites use to pull info
I do wish there was simcraft for classic tho
versed cedar
http://classicsim.org/ looks ok π
sure, cant compare it with the comfort of raidbots ^^
dense ice
EASY
maiden cave
makes sense that a person called Shadowthreat is stupid
bold stream
Hello guys, can anyone help me with macro Expose armor without breakin Sap, am trying but cant fix it.
shadow tapir
/stopattack
/cast Expose Armor
/stopattack
Should do fine
Im sure theres a fancier way though
plucky nymph
@bold stream So there's still a dead angle in the game atm in which you can sit at a near 180 degree angle, use special attacks, but not auto-attack the target.
It's a little weird to use but easy enough to practice.
Some simple practice and understanding of this can be gleaned from being in stealth behind a low-level target, facing directly away from them and slowly rotating towards them while spamming Sap.
Eventually the Sap will execute and be applied while you will be in the idle attack animation.
plucky nymph
You should pick whether you are going Daggers or not and follow that.
marble dune
@bold stream Just use this, no need to turn away at 180 degrees or anything
#showtooltip Expose Armor
/cast [@target,harm,nodead][harm,nodead] Expose Armor
plucky nymph
shadow tapir
So does Songflower despawn at some point after the cleanse
Cause three of these spots have nothing so not sure if that means Im in the wrong spot or they actually disappear
plucky nymph
They disappear.
shadow tapir
K ty, yeah it spawned right after I asked lol
plucky nymph
Some servers have Discord communities that track this kinda thing.
marble dune
when the spawn has nothing thats the best time to camp it
it goes from
corrupted->Cleansed->Inactive (you see it but cant click)->disappear-> respawn
worldly juniper
does anyone know if theres a pickpocket macro that is able to clear target i cant seem to get mine working
wheat copper
does offhand have a lower poison proc chance than mainhand? my mainhand is slower but always runs out of poison first, by a long way
shadow tapir
Same chance per hit but you attack with your main hand way more often because of abilities
wheat copper
ah ok, didn't know SS counted as a weapon swing in that way
shadow tapir
Yup it does
wheat copper
cool ty for the info π
muted matrix
I'm currently swords using the Dal'rend set, and as soon as I get a dagger I'll be breaking my set bonus, whats the easiest-to-get out of raid dagger for OH? distracting dagger?
tall raft
Yea^
Hey. I got some thoughts regarding Sword-specced human rogues. At 308 weapon skill you basically do not reduce the glancing blow penalty anymore and you are at a 5,7% chance to miss. This means that you still need 6% hit chance from talents/gear to be hit capped. Even if you are at 310 weapon skill you still need 5,5% hit chance -> 6% from talents and gear. This must indicate that the optimal sword-spec rogue talents for humans must be 20/31/0 with only 1/2 point in weapon expertise as the second point gives you 0,2% hit which doesn't make a difference as you still need 6% from talents and gear to be capped
maiden cave
@tall raft weapon skill also reduces the chance the mob will dodge you, which works on yellow attacks too (along with whites)
and you are far too caught up in "hit cap" when hit % beyond the yellow cap still improves your white damage (which is ~50% of your overall damage)
tall raft
Well. You will be soft-capped with 308 weapon skill and 6% hit chance from talents and gear. The 2 extra weapon skills (308-310) will decrease your chance to miss from behind by 0,2%. Which will equal a 0,1% damage increase with your white swings. Won't improved eviscerate or improved poisons equal to more than 0,1% increased damage?
maiden cave
mobs dodge from behind
tall raft
Fair enough. But at 9% hit chance you are soft capped for dodge and missed from behind aren't you?
maiden cave
again, you are far too caught up in any "hit % cap" - you are unlikely to gain any dmg moving the 1pt in Weapon Expertise around
but you're more than welcome to do so
maiden cave
yes
tall raft
I'm referring to this list:
Posted here earlier
According to that list. Won't you be soft-capped for dodge / misses from behind at 308 weapon skill + 6% hit from gear / talents?
maiden cave
where the pic is from
people tend to just post the pic instead of giving full context
tall raft
Allright. So hit-chance does not reduce the chance to be dodged?
maiden cave
ye its separate
tall raft
Okay. So weapon-skill is the only factor reducing chance to be dodged
?
assuming you are level 60 hitting a level 63 mob
maiden cave
according to that, yes - again, its not a huge benefit, but its there
which is why people just keep 2/2 weap expertise
because 1/3 evis or 1/5 poison doesnt do shit
tall raft
Hmm. Put numbers into the formula. Difference between 308 and 310 is 0,2% dodge yea
and that probably equals a little more than 0,2% damage as you will lose energy / globals if you get an attack dodged
Yeah it makes sense
Evis or poison is probably not impactful enough
Do you have any numbers for the damage breakdown of the different abilities while performing a perfect damage rotation?
plucky nymph
Imp Evis. is extremely poor atm as we rarely if ever use the skill, much better later on when we've bonuses to Eviscerate DMG.
.2% dodge cannot amount to much of anything with how quick fights can be atm, though it is still a gain.
waow
2
+DMG on Eviscerate - comically - is better if your gear is worse and kills take longer, as you will cast more of them over the course of the fight.
As it is now, it's almost not worth pressing the button.
plucky nymph
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
vocal hornet
rip Rip.
would have put all the private server folk on their heads if you lifted the caps and allowed. . . dots.
lol
plucky nymph
TBF a lot of DoTs are not worth casting > _>
Which is... more damning.
I suppose.
versed cedar
there was someone (guess @plucky nymph ), that had a table about how much the HoJ procchance is against the rune. for everything I tracked so far, I had one dungeon run where HoJ proccs were at 3%, rest is between 0,5 - 1%
im sure someone has done the math to compare with different procchances, if rune is maybe slightly better
plucky nymph
You can also just run the different chances in the SheetSim and see your proc chances with the given encounter time.
luckyBoi O _O
past arrow
anyone doing combat daggers or maces for raiding ? what are your thoughts - leveled as swords but I would now be competing with like 6 other sword rogues for weapons
shadow tapir
Maces isnt really an option but daggers is perfectly doable
I wish I had went daggers
sharp grotto
I love daggers, more fun imho
past arrow
still combat or assass?
drowsy phoenix
eviscerate pvp ezpz
plucky nymph
Mace options atm -
Come Thursday EmpDemo can drop.
We still need more Crit Chance before Seal Fate Daggers is a competitive option, Combat Daggers is the winner atm.
plucky nymph
SUMMON ME BACK!! I am useless outside of this fringe case!!!
marble dune
port to org, respec, hearth to kargath, zone into bwl, get summoned to broodlord and skip all the aids trash
200 iq play
plucky nymph
Vael is close to door, port summon summon
But then you can't eat your trash sandwich.
plucky nymph
Nah we're getting on our Warrior alts.
plucky nymph
Ye.
marble dune
ideally rogues gain more from the buff than warriors do, 50 energy vs 20 rage per secc
but wars can perma execute so ehh
plucky nymph
Just roll warlock 4head.
plucky nymph
First MC dead to cleave, calling it.
marble dune
im staying in the back with my bow for all of trash
plucky nymph
Yeah but Lucifron >_>
marble dune
i actually pay priest/mages to be my pocket healer/decurser for the night
20g each person
plucky nymph
lol
cinder spear
Should I break devilsaur for my T1 gloves I have or wait until I get T2 pants? https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-planner/rogue/orc/AjwQAFMjEF8yEAUgIAUBUCMf8AE0XAI8MwNBtwU5LQZBuwc61ghBuAlHxwo61wtCpwxIRA0uJw42jQ80HBBCsxFJkBJHkw
maiden cave
@cinder spear wait
versed cedar
is it possible to see HoJ procs in logs ?
versed cedar
or does anyone know if the percentage recount gives is correct?
signal ember
If you're worried about losing the 2%, you can get the DM rogue trinket to make that up
crude robin
is hemo rogue too bad for raids?
muted matrix
bit of a wasted debuff slot tbh
tough pilot
Its not too bad but its def not near as good as bladeflurry/AR. If your guild isn't that hardcore then it shouldn't matter. But some guilds will def want you in your best raid spec.
earnest cipher
If you're raiding as a pvp spec you're just being carried tbh
tough pilot
Or in guild that isn't serious about clear times. Or pugging. The content isn't hard.
tough pilot
Technically don't have to if you have people around you that will carry. Steamers do it.
earnest cipher
It's about pulling your weight and being helpful to your raid
tough pilot
And I'm sorry if you think mc and ony are hard because you have to get a few blues.. lol
earnest cipher
Noone wants to carry you if you're not a streamer
They arent hard
You're just being selfish if you dont respec to a pve spec
tough pilot
Sure. But hemo isn't that bad to the point you're getting carried.
It's not selfish if your guild is casual.
Not every guild cares about under 60min clears.
If your guild cares about times, then sure it's selfish. I agree.
signal ember
What's matter the most is simply having fun and why retail is superior because we can switch specs.
tough pilot
I mean you can switch specs in classic if you're in a loose guild. But myself, i play in a guild that pushes for fast clear times, so we have to raid cookie cutter builds. But other guilds clear MC/Ony perfectly fine, may not be as fast, but they allow their players to play with any spec they wish.
It just comes down to the guild atmosphere.
signal ember
With daggers, would it be good idea to stack more hit than required? I can add in two more % which would bring it to 12% and if I equipped devilsaur set, that would be 14%
Should play with Excel
plucky nymph
You will always have more hit than required, it's just all over the place with other stats.
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
worldly juniper
can someone explain why you put +5 dmg on perds blade rather than crusader
plucky nymph
Alright so;
For Swords/etc. you use Sinister Strike -
weapon damage + flat damage
With daggers you use Backstab and Ambush -
Which have huge multiplies to weapon damage.
So you put +5 on the MH, w/e on the OH since the OH damage isn't used in the calculations.
worldly juniper
ah ok sweet
stable wave
hmm.. are the hemo/swords build and the dagger build close when it comes to pvp? or is one clearly superior?
worldly juniper
bloodmoon sheet shows crusader/ +5 are almost identical i wonder if it calculates it properly
trail jasper
@stable wave I'm by no means an expert but I feel like hemo swords gives me more flexibility and control, whereas the dagger is more bursty and especially with a thistle tea you can end someones life with Cheap shot > Backstab > Thistle Tea > Backstab > Eviscerate/Kidney and finish it off
Since backstab is rather expensive.. With 100 energy I find it impossible to open with cheap shot, backstab and then I can't get energy for Gouge before they are out of cheap shot, leaving me vulnerable to many game ending moves such as shadow priest fear, hunter trap, warlock coil, rogue turning the game on me etc
sand cipher
it's generally accepted that daggers is the better/more impactful spec. the main reasons being that you can run imp sprint/kick without severely gimping yourself. you can cast kidney because all your damage isn't purely from evisc like with swords, and likewise you can switch targets more freely as well
there are ways to avoid almost all of those game ending moves in your energy downtime @trail jasper
dodge fear (wotf if ud), frost reflector trap, vanish coil, evasion gouge
can also skull an incoming blind that you know he's mashing
trail jasper
Yes but I am speaking as a mere mortal night elf without a million gadgets for PvP π
trail jasper
It's not a problem, I was just chiming in with my experience to Cafko since he asked
sand cipher
also for the record the stunlock setup for daggers is actually CS > SS > Gouge > kidney
you dont backstab when trying to stunlock
trail jasper
Hence I prefer hemo build for control as I wrote initally.. but aight, imma head out now
maiden cave
@sand cipher that's pretty shitty advice considering dagger rogues in the 1v1 tourney tended to do CS - BS - KS - SS - Blind - Sap as a stunlock combo
if you are gouging you are DR'ing a potential future Sap
trail jasper
Well what do they know kek π
maiden cave
...
they are ~15-20s from when the ability ended, its not flat 15s
saying to not use backstab during a stunlock as a dagger rogue is just silly
sand cipher
i mean a dr'd sap still lasts ages
worldly juniper
hey guys for comabt daggers for raiding i dont see any people using ambush do you just not use it for raiding
maiden cave
you only ambush after a vanish because you waste time setting up ambush on a pull
just BS - SnD and get started on doing actual DPS
worldly juniper
ah ok ty
maiden cave
(but do ambush after vanish, nothing wrong with that)
worldly juniper
how many CP do you use SND with backstab since it uses alot of energy
maiden cave
you BS - SnD, then you refresh SnD after a few backstabs, you dont get to use Evis very much as combat dagger except when you pop AR + Tea + BF during cleave fights
worldly juniper
whats AR?
trail jasper
Adrenaline Rush
crisp briar
guys if im playing human is it better to go viskag/brut or perd/CHT for highest dps
or is it not a huge difference between the two
drowsy phoenix
does sap on players always go away after 12s?
sand cipher
it can randomly break due to heartbeat
drowsy phoenix
but it can last full 45?
sand cipher
i'm not positive, but i'd think so. however that would probably be extremely unlucky for them
the game periodically checks for resists over time, so things like sap, poly, and rocket helm can break prematurely and often do
i remember reading that it checks every 1/4th of the base duration but i don't have any source
that would explain why it frequently breaks after roughly 12 seconds though
vocal hornet
@earnest cipher trash person or not. My favorite thing I saw jokerd do, was during his 2nd toon. he was pvp, and had horde viewers follow his gnome around, and murder anyone in his farming spot. Was not planned, but viewers kept circling him. but that was pretty fun to watch.
earnest cipher
Also against tos lmao
civic crest
Where do you guys go to gank? Iβm guessing searing and burning are too busy for solo and going dm
signal ember
Yeah BRM, SG, burning steppe and TM/SS are hot spots.
tiny mortar
Just outside Southshore 30 mins after honor went live
drowsy phoenix
think the most honor I got out of an HK today was 199
marble dune
How much is one solo kill worth
drowsy phoenix
I think scout vs scout caps at 200
worldly juniper
yeah disregard that i linked wrong ones haha
near wagon
does anyone have a macro to swap a dagger in mainhand when stealthed then swap to sword after ? for BS then SS
alpine geyser
@near wagon I use these two macros
#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/cleartarget [dead][help]
/equipslot 16 Thrash Blade
/startAttack
/cast Sinister Strike
#showtooltip Ambush
/cleartarget [dead][help]
/targetenemy [noexists]
/equipslot 16 Searing Needle
/stopattack
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast Ambush
Just remember to change weapon name
ripe tulip
Does anyone have a decent/good pvp/pve hybrid build for either daggers or sword to share? π
tough pilot
@ripe tulip there really isn't any. You're gonna be forced to swap talents if you want the most effective build for either. We don't have a hybrid build. You're either gonna be speced for one or the other. Hemo prep is the best PvP build atm and it's medicore in pve. Combat sword or dagger is best pve spec atm and it's medicore in PvP. You're screwed either way.
Gonna just have to have the gold for Respecs. And as rogues we can do that pretty easily thankfully.
drowsy phoenix
anyone know when the pvp day resets?
tough pilot
@signal ember i mean we're not mages or hunters, but pick pock farming is pretty damn solid when it comes to keeping a solid stash to cover respecs.
quartz mountain
30+ levelling - what's the best poison combo?
maiden cave
same as always, 2x instant @quartz mountain
steep quartz
Instant Instant - or Instant Crippling on PvP
drowsy phoenix
I'd say crippling x2 would be better for PvP unless it's a 1v1
drowsy phoenix
also me have question
how come sometimes when I ambush on energy tick it holds that tick until the next one (what I mean is seeing 40 energy for 2 seconds then seeing 81)
plucky nymph
Laggy batching.
drowsy phoenix
dang
hushed laurel
got my ACLGs, hype
plucky nymph
w o o
sand cipher
yeah @drowsy phoenix it's extremely annoying
i try to ambush backstab tea backstab but i just sit there on 40 energy and do nothing
halcyon osprey
Hey fellow rogues! What are your opinions on bracers from DM west vs the night slayer bracers? The ap is more viable than the increased in agility on nightslayer? Iβm assuming thatβs why itβs showing as bis?
signal ember
You could run that bracers instead of T1 because T1 is just 5 extra agi basically and the T1 bonus does nothing with our damage really.
raven snow
@clear barn
hushed laurel
I'm playing horde on a 4:1 A:H server. Its amusing. PvE so it's not a stupid gank fest
tough pilot
the problem is majority of the PVP servers are horde heavily populated.
because racials are superior in PVP.
and its gonna create problems for WPVP for both factions.
When you have 30 horde hunting 4 alliance players, feining for any honor you can get, its gonna make that grind that much longer. BG's are gonna be a must for both sides if you wanna grind honor.
i dont think either faction wants bad population spread, and idk how you fix it either. Some suggest faction ques, but idk if its fair to make people wait to play the game because they chose X faction.
drowsy phoenix
being outnumbered is a benefit in terms of rank progression, because you dont have to work as hard in comparison to your factionmates
hushed laurel
Kind of, at least when BGs drop. Until then being outnumbered is horrible.
@signal ember I'm a warrior. Pvp no is for me
tough pilot
@drowsy phoenix as stated above me, that's more inclined for bg's, not open world PVP
When it comes to open world pvp, population imbalance doesn't really help anyone.
manic comet
Combat daggers = 3 points lethality as most guides suggest? anyone with a clue ? :)
hidden basin
Do you guys go PvP spec when you are not raiding? Let's say you raid twice a week and you need to respec twice if you want to swap between PVE and PvP spec weekly. That's 100 gold per respec.
It's a shame the Rogue PVE spec is so much useless in a PvP environment.
Unlike other classes where even though their PVE spec is inferior to the PvP one it's still way more viable than the Rogue's PVE spec.
glass timber
lol
Classic is for pvp retail is for pve
My mages asked if they could go fire. It was a simple yes
hidden basin
So just fuck it and go raiding with your PvP spec?
glass timber
Yup
hidden basin
I'll ask my GM, never thought of it tbh.
hidden basin
My GM is also a huge PvP freak that was rank 14 back in the days, he might understand π
Yeah we are doing good
glass timber
He should 100%
I honestly donβt think Iβll spec back into pve till aq
Thatβs just my gut feeling
And Iβm have tf π€£
hidden basin
If we can manage to clean content efficiently with PvP specs no reason to go PVE specs at all.
glass timber
You will
Only if your guild is going for speed clears will it matter
Having mages back you up with fire is a great feeling.
Seeing the giant fireball just nuke your target β€οΈ
The sweaty mages in my guild take screenshots of the crits and post them in discord π
hidden basin
Yeah, it's a great sight I can imagine π€£
tough pilot
I'm in a guild that goes for speed clears, so i have to take the gold hits on the chin. pickpocket farming at least covers it if you put in the hours.
Ive been in PVE spec since they dropped honor. With raid around the corner doesn't make sense to swap to PVP then swap right back to PVE π¦
drowsy phoenix
I'm just staying in prep/seal fate
plucky nymph
π‘οΈ
muted matrix
I'd love to stay pvp if possible, but hemo is just so bad in raids :(
lone sorrel
Is there a best pvp talent build for daggers? or is it alot of personal pref?
fathom rover
probably prep / imp sprint
lone sorrel
so something like 16/12/23?
fathom rover
yep guess thats the most used dagger spec
honest pewter
itd be cool if they just buffed ally racials a little even if it didnt make it as good as horde itd still help alot but also nobody wants changes so
tough pilot
The damage is done even if they did racial changes.
The odds of getting all these horde players to swap and restart on Ally would be insanely unlikely.
And like you said, the entire movement has been no changes so that would never happen.
I think the mistake is expecting classic to ever be remotely balanced in any area of gameplay. It just won't happen.
honest pewter
well i dont think youd have to expect horde players to restart as ally but itd help influence lots of new players to join ally instead
but i guess ur right anyway
i just feel like they need to add osme reason to play ally it doenst have to be stronger racials maybe a couple of uniques or something
fathom rover
there are a lot of servers with a pretty balanced population and still horde is farming alliance like crazy. i guess there are a lot of people on alliance side playing on a pvp server who aren't interested in pvp at all. we have something like 60:40 and most of the time its 10 horde players hunting a single ally player.
hushed laurel
Ally racials are insanely good though. Escape artist is powerful, stoneform is fantastic against rogues, shadowmeld is great with hunters. Humans get shafted in pvp for now, but their pve racials are obviously busted. Horde racials are meh in pvp besides orcs stun resist, which is obviously mega busted, and WotF, which is good.
ionic compass
Most of the time IΒ΄ve been wishing that my rogue was ud, not orc.
tough pilot
Warstomp, shadowguard, are both insanely strong in PvP too
hushed laurel
Warstomp is a good defensive, but its not enough to save most casters. Offensive wise its meh, cows can't catch people.
Stun resist is broken, but wotf usually feels better because you control it
tough pilot
Soda legit won a few matches yesterday off of good offensive warstomps so I'ma have disagrees there.
shadow tapir
Alliance racials dont hold a light to Horde in pvp, lets be real
hushed laurel
Warstomp can be good offensively, its still a stun, but its not easy to use offensively, and can be made inefficient very easily
hushed laurel
Small range, using it offensively requires you being on them, which means your prolly a melee, so being kited is common. In melee on melee, it can shine more for sure.
Id just rather be an orc and ignore drums forever than have a stun
*stuns
Not saying horde racials aren't stronger, but alliance racials still have power. Most of the bitching I see from alliance is usually from humans who rolled that for pve reasons and are upset they don't have every man yet
drowsy phoenix
shadowmeld lul
tough pilot
shadowmeld op when you wanna hide from the 20 horde chasing you LOL
hushed laurel
Its good in like... exactly 1 case
Still rather be a dorf hunter, but gotta give the nelfs some use
maiden cave
thats a bit narrow-minded
shadowmeld is quite strong
(on hunters)
its a dogshit rogue race
dry birch
meld->mind-control is pretty good too
maiden cave
yeah but you'd have to a complete idiot to play a NE priest
unless you mean MC cap, in which case π
dry birch
"complete idiot" x'D
plucky nymph
o _O
maiden cave
playing NE over dwarf is a pretty stupid move for priests
plucky nymph
What does NE even get for being priest? o _O
plucky nymph
ew
hushed laurel
There was some hope that shards had a 1:1 spell damage ratio and arcane damage nelf priests would be good
It doesn't, and they arent
plucky nymph
π
dry birch
yeah, you only use it when mb is on cd and target is out of range for mf
but i just think that language is so funny about classic x'D
given that a majority of the playerbase are mongs just playing for nostalgia
plucky nymph
Yeah it's... very poor language but literally one of the four words in his vocabulary.
hushed laurel
plucky nymph
Exalted with a non-player faction for their mount still costs the 900g for the mount after the cloth farm ye?
acoustic dagger
Ye. Itβs max discount
plucky nymph
Well 800 with PVP Rank 3 as well but ye.
shadow tapir
Yeah talked to a mage who has sat in raids most of the time
800+ kills with 17k honor
Way too inefficient
plucky nymph
Yeah.
HKs look great but honor value is very poor.
There might be some gnarly scaling in raid versus in a five man as well.
Similar to XP generation.
shadow tapir
I guess warriors, mages and the like cant just scout around for picks like rogue though
I hope P3 isnt too far lol
shadow tapir
is badlands bad for you?
I just spend my time sneaking around Searing Gorge and avoiding the death ball raids
I might need to check badlands out
plucky nymph
"Bad".
It just has enough people in it PVPing to make questing poor most of the time.
shadow tapir
ah ok
plucky nymph
It's not 20v20 unless it's raid time, then it might get fucky.
I've somehow gotten revenge on every Rogue that's ganked me > _>
They're not very sneaky.
plucky nymph
The Horde GY is basically right outside of Kargath and Allies camp near there too much IMO.
shadow tapir
Yeah sounds like a bad idea lol
plucky nymph
I mean they go from the elementals to the north, and follow the hillside down to the Horde GY since it's right there where people turn into Searing Gorge.
EZ to catch people, EZ to get countered though.
drowsy phoenix
PvE server here, we just go to hillsbrad and start shit
1 ally raid fighting 2-3 horde raids
it's like trench warfare, push out of SS for one minute then sit there for another 15
hushed laurel
alliance have been camping org on pagle for the last few days. has kinda messed with ony buff turn ins, but not a big deal.
drowsy phoenix
isnt pagle the 90-10 ally server
hushed laurel
closer to 80:20 A:H
fun server though, the alliance had people standing on the inn rough ganking, but when we reminded them that could get them suspended, they bailed.
now its just 6 or 7 rogues ambushing people around the AH
sour nymph
Hi guys, noob pvper here. I got perd blade and CHT and I was wondering what spec should I go for pvp. From what I read, it seems that hemo is the way to go, but requires swords. Are there any good alternatives?
hidden basin
Cant do PVE with Hemo because it takes up a debuff slot
sour nymph
That's not what I asked though. I'm looking for a pvp spec.
cedar jewel
There are some dagger pvp builds with imp sprint and prep
Like this one for example https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fGx0oxZGcM0bZVMjcc0R
sour nymph
yeah some of my friends are suggesting I try something like that. I guess I'll do it
it sucks to not have imp stealth though
maiden cave
dont link a build without dirty deeds when it has prep
dirty deeds is extremely good
sour nymph
what would you favor as an opener on cloth/leather/plate wearers? Ambush for cloth, cheap shot for leather and garrote for plate?
I'm trying to learn why is dirty deeds so good if the build clearly go for imp ambush
(like I said, I'm a total noob, but willing to learn the craft)
sharp grotto
Ambush only for mages imho cheap for others but itβs situational of course
teal jetty
Anyone have a link for atk tables, to see how much hit and crit cap... cuz right now i fill i have to much Weapon Skill and hit
One more thing, i play horde so i dont use poison in my MH but i ran a dung and Insta Poison only did 9k dps, should i use [Elemental Sharpening Stone] for more cirt
vocal hornet
@plucky nymph when does WSG / AB open?
raven snow
@clear barn
hushed laurel
WSG/AV in P3 AB in P... 5?
fossil steeple
hushed laurel
Sounds right, I like AB but its 5ever away so π€·
worn cairn
when should you replace thrash blade?
shadow tapir
Dal rend main hand usually. You can also buy Krol blade, sword of zeal, or go daggers
I used it until brutality blade though, no rend luck
raven snow
@clear barn
hidden basin
How to make 800 gold without proffessions?
And without having to respec to subtlety because I need to raid with PVE spec.
hidden basin
But I have all my pre bis gear π
and I wasted 700 gold on gear, but that gold was from lvling
Maybe I should lvl an alt and just funnel the gold to my main made from lvling lol
hushed laurel
So you wanna make good without doing things to make gold? Hope your a 
plucky nymph
if you've skinning UBRS is good as well.
You're really just chasing big money items.
fair carbon
MC trash runs
hidden basin
I know what I should do
I should make a time machine, go back in time and never bought that devilsaur set + krol blade as I don't really need it anymore.
And buy an epic mount instead
ez
plucky nymph
Correct those were poor purchases.
hidden basin
so true
plucky nymph
If you have the support, guild MC trash runs can be ~120g/hr.
hidden basin
It's an interesting idea. I'll see what I can do, thanks.
fair carbon
Just roll a mage and sell portals
plucky nymph
I think we had 2 drops total last run but they were very high priority drops.
or Lockpick spam, small money, basically AFK.
hidden basin
If my guild allowed me to go hemo spec in raids it would've been easier to farm gold. I'd just do hive mining/pick pocket BRD for a month and make gold.
plucky nymph
Can also pick Tyr's Hand and mine the nodes that are sometimes there.
shadow tapir
Im trying to make a macro that swap my helm to catsyee goggle and my boots to nightscape boots and vice versa in one press
Does anyone know how?
Oh nevermind, got it
plucky nymph
hushed laurel
Its over, now go get squid
raven snow
so i feel like im running out of quests i can comfortably do without it being a huge hassle at 55. everything is starting to be 58ish. should i like dungeon grind or am i missing something
or theres like 1 quest in a zone i can do
plucky nymph
Grind.
raven snow
where like dungeons or
shadow tapir
Blackrock depths usually
plucky nymph
In general. Once you are out of quests you have no options other than to grind mobs, or dungeons. Considering your level there's gear to get in some dungeons, and they're decently time consuming.
tough tartan
has DR been added to limit Blind etc to 10sec yet?
i dont play rogue in classic, but i was thinking of rolling one, but researching it a bit first
shadow tapir
Its only 10 secs base, I believe DR can lower it
tough tartan
does sap last longer?
tough tartan
:3
shadow tapir
And they DR and can end like 10s in although I cant remember which abilities cause it sorry
maiden cave
@tough tartan Blind does not DR
it can end early due to Nature Resistance
but there is zero DR on the ability itself
tough tartan
Yeah I guess I asked the question wrong
What I meant to ask, was if they had reduced the duration of a specific rogue cc to 10 seconds, as I heard something about a vanilla patch that did the same, and was wondering if that had been applied to classic
maiden cave
I mean, blind is exactly 10s - Sap is more than 10s, but it often heartbeats, giving you lower duration
Sap is super unreliable
so no, there's no "10s hard cap" on CC
and Sap is never 45s like @shadow tapir wrote
muted matrix
saps on me: 45s
saps on enemy: 10s
neat sun
I wound up leaving Pagle and I'm rerolling over on Smolderweb ... Question:
I have the gold for both - what's better for weapon enchants? Fiery or +striking?
I want to make sure my level 34 weapons (Sword of Omen and Hypnotic Blade) have the best enchants to make leveling faster
earnest cipher
Fiery makes it glow pretty :)
raven snow
is Krol Blade worth it or like is it barely better than say, dal'rends set?
earnest cipher
Dalrends is better than krol + mirahs
I'd only buy krols if you dont wanna farm rends and have the extra gold laying around
raven snow
well i just think about how i only saw both of them drop one time back in the day and i only got one of them out of the two that dropped lol
vs how many people need them and stuff
earnest cipher
Also take into consideration how many viskags and brutality blades have dropped in your raid group
Like what's your likely hood of getting the next sword drops from raid
dapper nebula
Hi, did you guys would take 2x [Tarnished Elven Ring] or 1x [Tarnished Elven Ring] and 1x [Blackstone Ring] with this gear
earnest cipher
And bwl is awhile away so you dont really have a reason to rush to get krol
Just keep farming rends casually and mc/ony for the bis swords
ionic compass
I went straigth to krol and mirahs after like 10-15 ubrs runs. Felt really hard to get into those groups as rogue if you dont gather it yourself or have key.
plucky nymph
@dapper nebula 2x TER, each is better than Blackstone Ring or Painweaver Band, even with 12% hit.
vocal hornet
@plucky nymph how much +hit is even possible ?
vocal hornet
I guess with the high value of whites, hit is the shit.
plucky nymph
It's not bad, that's for sure.
vocal hornet
anyway, you still enjoying?
plucky nymph
Yeah seems fine.
plucky nymph
atm I am only on for farming and helping people get attunements.
Some PVP, will be more when WSG releases.
plucky nymph
and P3/etc. when there's just more content.
Yeah just need a Viskag ONY > _>"
Probably doing splits again this week so will see.
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
plucky nymph
Really just need to get people out of some places so people can level again > _>
earnest cipher
Yeah if I dont have either dalrend after like 10 or 15 runs I may just buy krols
I think I may be top 1 or 2 prio for viskag too so we'll see
plucky nymph
Probably would not spend the money then.
plucky nymph
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
dusk crystal
rather give it to a boomkin
plucky nymph
srslyThou
hushed laurel
Why even make it at that point
plucky nymph
I didn't catch the guild I have no idea.
Found him again, must be the GM or something, dunno.
Might even be a gold buyer π
Lionheart Cloudkeepers HoR > _>
tough pilot
where do you pick up the pvp trinket? Or is it supposed to appear in bags?
tough pilot
tyty
steep quartz
Anyone have a good dagger pve spec?
plucky nymph
steep quartz
ty
drowsy phoenix
rooflissniss
copper schooner
General question about Classic etiquette.
If a raid has the loot rules of MS/OS +1. Say Viskag: The onyxia sword drops.
A dagger specialized, dagger equipt rogue rolls the highest and is not +1
A sword specialized, sword equipt rogue rolls 2nd highest and is not +1.
On the MS/OS +1 system, who should win the roll?
drowsy phoenix
depends on if the dagger rogue is hard stuck daggers or if they're just changing talents whenever they get an upgrade
copper schooner
Under the circumstances that the dagger rogue made no mention of wanting to go swords when the raid began or prior to boss being pulled- would his MS be considered combat daggers ?
acoustic dagger
Thatβs pretty toxic and silly. For now sulfuras is best warrior pvp wpn cause it has insane proc chance and super high top end dmg. All top pvp warriors gonna build sulf if they got a chance. But you guys know better
It works diff from private servers
copper schooner
Just wanting to clarify if combat swords and combat daggers are considered 2 different MainSpec or if they're one in the same.
shadow tapir
What does the +1 mean?
copper schooner
The etiquette I'm trying to understand: is the general consensus amongst rogues on how loosely or tight that should apply in MS/OS +1
shadow tapir
I think it depends, my guild specifies the two as different specs. I definitely think if, for example, a rogue has barman shanker/bonescraper and viskag drops then he shouldnt really be seen as OS rolling for Viskag. He's probably just going to go w/e spec is best for his weapon.
copper schooner
+1 means if you get a piece of loot, you are now +1 and anyone not +1 is priority to get a piece over you
shadow tapir
But after that point he shouldnt be seen as MS for perds, he already has a top weapon
Ah ok
But all of that logic is for a guild run, pugs I doubt youll have anything specific enough
So basically, imo it just depends. If he has a shitty dagger because thats the best he has and will go sword spec then I wouldn't see an issue.
Couldnt tell you what the general consensus is on it
copper schooner
:/ welp, I got 1 count of public opinion on it ^.^ ty
Well 3 actually: I didn't end up fanning out the structure of the question by the time the first 2 happened.
old stone
we get the same shit every week, eskhandar necklace from ony, onslaught + flame trinket from rag
I use BB + CHT so im fine for weapons atm
dapper nebula
thanks @plucky nymph
dapper nebula
btw is it worth to enchant t2 helmet with Agi ?
tropic karma
obviously
dapper nebula
yeah i mean is not that obviously if i have to invest 400 gold for this book
spark raptor
400g wtf
maiden cave
if its 400g, I wouldn't bother
shadow tapir
tropic karma
@dapper nebula go rapidity then
shadow tapir
It sounds like someone is just abusing a market or something for it to be 400g, thatβs crazy
unique flame
Are there any more solid resources available than the vague guides on icy veins and the like? Best in slot lists and general rules like "keep up slice and dice" are great, but I feel like I'm lacking some more subtle knowledge to push forward
unique flame
ty much
hidden basin
If you can't go stealth build and can't do rogue specific farms, is Tyr's Hand OK for a rogue to farm? Just kill mobs and mine the ocassional thorium nod?
Need to make 800 gold in 2 weeks or I'll sleep with the fishes.
raven snow
@clear barn
ionic compass
PP farming is easy as combat spec if you have semi decent preraid bis gear
hidden basin
BRD PP farming? I thought it would go very slow with combat spec.
ionic compass
Faster sneaking is bonus, but IΒ΄ve been farming as combat spec once I started raiding.
And bf & ar makes bosses quite easy to burst down.
hidden basin
OK I'll give it a try. Surely it must be better than Tyr's Hand
What bosses do you kill? Pyro and the goblin?
ionic compass
Yeah. Pyro and goblin. IΒ΄ve been lazy with my farming speeds while scrolling discord and other stuff while afking sometimes, but it gives 20-30g per hour even like that. Depends how lucky you are with weapon drops
Should be even more lucrative now when they patched that vanish bug.
hidden basin
Oh yeah, the vanish bug was annoying af.
5 minute CD on vanish though and no prep...
I'll still give it a try and see how it goes
ionic compass
Yeah. Vanish and die... 1g to repairs instant and you need to run back. Time wasted.
glass timber
Having your friends send you relic coffer keys ππ½
Or if you can find them cheap on the ah. They add to the gold bonus when you do pp brd farm
worldly juniper
does anyone know what tool tip addon this is
ionic compass
Killing solo fire elementals add little boost to the gold gain aswell if you get lucky.
hidden basin
How do you kill Pyro with Combat spec again?
I just killed him, but had to vanish afterwards
So I can escape the adds.
I killed one of the adds as well with blade flurry.
Maybe it's better to sap the boss, kill the adds with blade flurry. Then first aid and finish off the boss with adrenaline rush?
shadow tapir
I sap an add, attack boss and blade flurry to kill add
Then when add is dead I gouge or blind and bandage
ionic compass
Yea. As Tawney says. Sometimes you need to pop a potion to survive it aswell, but you get plenty from lockboxes. When you get better gear you even save money there
dense ice
Actually why don't people who aim for rank 14, level up 10 alts to minimum level required for pvp and get 15 honorable kills on all alts each week so they get into pvp pool? that way you can open up more HWL Slots
hidden basin
What about Plugger? I just died from him. Maybe I need to kite him and los? But I know if you move away too far from him he starts aggroing other mobs in the vicinity.
plucky nymph
Line of Sight his spells.
ionic compass
You cannot go too far around the corner where the dwarf vendor is.
But you need to utilize that corner to los his abilities.
hidden basin
Aha, so need to find another spot
OK, I'll check the area and see what I can use to los. Thanks
ionic compass
Theres Guzus guide for the whole dungeon. Hes subt, but its easy as combat aswell.
plucky nymph
You can LoS around the dwarf dood, ezpz.
hidden basin
I see when Guzu goes behind the wall, the boss starts aggroing but Guzu immediately shows up and the boss comes back.
But yeah, I see what he does.
OK, I'll go kill the shitty goblin now.
plucky nymph
Don't hug walls too much though, he will take a real dumb path and aggro other people in the bar.
ionic compass
Midway on the wall is safe to wait him to run to you. Then you can just los him either direction. Hitboxes sometimes bug thou and you might get hit if you arent far enough.
But yeah. Its easy when you get hang of it.
hidden basin
Just killed him. Just copied Guzu, pretty easy, you are right.
ionic compass
Jackpot fire elemental. Heart of fire, Elemental fire and Essence of fire from one elemental.
Easy 7.5g from one kill
plucky nymph
haha
hidden basin
lol nice
cyan citrus
What do you guys think about a full sub/premed build for world pvp. Focusing purely on ambush burst, and never using cheap shot.
something like this
maiden cave
@cyan citrus looks like a very bad idea
you need control vs certain classes, you cannot just Ambush everyone
and Dirty Deeds is an amazing talent
rain river
Hello, new to the community here. Been trying to figure out how to best optimize my gear and talents for raids. I'm currently combat daggers and I am top 3 DPS in my raid teams currently below another combat swords rogue by a few DPS who has Perdition Blade and Del'rend off hand. Trying to figure out what I should do with my gear and if I need to adjust my talents at all. I have a distracting dagger and a darrowspike to switch off from currently, I also have a bonescraper but haven't been convinced it's better than either of the other two. Any thoughts or ideas on my current set up? I highlighted a few things I've been focusing on.
turbid orchid
so im leveling my rogue on a new server fresh start, any recommendations? its pvp heavy so im thinking of leveling w/ daggers in case of pvp
muted matrix
daggers is not great for levelling, sure they're good for PVP, but theres just not many good daggers you can get, almost every instance from 18-50 has a quest or a 1h sword drop
its not that daggers is a bad spec, theres just not many good daggers
best spec for levelling solo+dungeons is sword combat w/ riposte
turbid orchid
even on a high pvp server?
turbid orchid
eh I might as well just stick to combat till 60
fathom rover
most people just trying to get to level 60 and won't attack you. and being a rogue you can escape fights and choose fights pretty easy so I wouldn't bother choosing talents for pvp while leveling unless you really want to prioritize pvp.
and around 48+ just stay inside dungeons or you will get rekt anyway or search for a quite place to grind.
marble cloak
Hey boys i got a corehound tooth last night. I was wondering what spec is both pvp/pve kosher with daggers. I'm in full 6/8 SC with 2/2 devil
Debating running distracting dagger in OH, tooth MH
what is hitcap if im +11 in daggers
earnest cipher
Had a lvl 60 rogue wipe my group for rfd outside the dungeon except me and he /saluted me
Honor among thieves I guess LOL
fathom rover
hitcap for +11 daggers should be 5,4%
earnest cipher
It's ok to be over
earnest cipher
Alt of dam is from autos
fathom rover
but one thing to consider with the weaponskill hit is that it only counts for that weapon
marble cloak
Oh really
fathom rover
you can have blind misses in ubrs etc
marble cloak
I didnt know that
fathom rover
or in higher level dungeons
marble cloak
yeah this will be for raiding
fathom rover
tried to save healers sometimes and missed
earnest cipher
Abilities that arent from weapons arent affected by hit chance
Btw
Or weapon skill
marble cloak
ok so id still wanna be hit capped 9%
cuz of SC bonus
that extra energy is even more clutch for daggers
I just wanna say that every cookie cutter pre bis list is bullshit
6/8 SC is the way to go
earnest cipher
Well duh
earnest cipher
Who cares abt hp
earnest cipher
Wat
fathom rover
trash around geddon cares about hp π
earnest cipher
If u die in raid it's either your fault for taking aggro, bad positioning or the healers neglected you
marble cloak
also u can get same hit cap with SC
earnest cipher
Not if u bandaged or not lmao
marble cloak
my AP difference in typical "pre bis" list set is only 40AP more
than SC
crit chance no change
my question was if imp backstab sprint spec is viable for pvp
basically
marble cloak
LOL
earnest cipher
Is it the best? Prob not
Had a mage try and cs my bow shot while I was novad last night
earnest cipher
marble cloak
wat server r u on
earnest cipher
Kirtonos
marble cloak
im kinda pumped about cross server bg's tbh
earnest cipher
I wanna see these battle groups
marble cloak
cuz on stalagg we have a no life p server on alliance
called grizzly
and non cross realm would be just toxic
earnest cipher
Yeah we have the same here
Oran'thul has over 1000 people and non stops gloats abt server first kills
marble cloak
these dudes collude with a horde guild and have 60 horde characters of their own
they legit pop ony head at shitty times just to fuck horde up
earnest cipher
'We get every single Kazzak and azuregos'
marble cloak
ya exactly
earnest cipher
Thats because they bring over 100 people to help them secure the kills from ally
marble cloak
and if they dont get it
this guild called Washed Up on horde gets it cuz they collude
so im glad cross realm bg's
r a thing
earnest cipher
The gm of this guild bans people from world chat if people talk shit abt his guild
And gets given mod every time hes on
earnest cipher
Its fuckin toxic
marble cloak
i havent been in world chat since joining a decent guild
marble cloak
I bought a 2nd account this week to powerlevel a mage to sell ports in kargath
xD
I wonder if SC 6 set bonus has cap on PPM
earnest cipher
No idea
Theres a guy on my server
That spams enchanting services 24/7
Pretty sure it's a bot that just enchants and takes tips all day
marble cloak
how do bans work for bots if accounts r under the same bnet
like if my wow1
get banned
does my actual main account get banned too
marble cloak
rip
earnest cipher
Yuh
raven snow
https://gyazo.com/2fc5de520ede2bc0b901f9efb48d6fa6 Wtf is this garbage
hushed laurel
Lul
quaint grove
hi all
misty dirge
Is +hit worth alot after 9%? Items like Mask of the Unforgiven seems abit underwhelmin after you get DM trinket and such
plucky nymph
yes
misty dirge
so a +1% hit is worth approx how much agi or ap/crit?
after 9
someone here must have figured this stuff out:P
maiden cave
@misty dirge its not static, its dynamic
use the dps spreadsheets on the rogue discord
misty dirge
thanks, i kinda get that +hit increases the value of crit/ap
earnest cipher
But the spreadsheets are better
turbid orchid
what build are you guys running for pvp?
maiden cave
good ole cb hemo
turbid orchid
thats what i was thinkin
shadow tapir
Same until I get a perds
plucky nymph
Called it.
ancient phoenix
Wonder if that's going to mess up logs on certain fights lol
plucky nymph
Shouldn't, 50y is quite a lot still.
shadow tapir
Rag maybe
hushed laurel
It shouldn't, they said it won't effect combat log text dumps
bleak hill
if im full prebis.....whats better........truestrike, eclipse bracers, swiftwalker boots, and cloudrunner girdle, orrrrrrrr 4 piece SC set in replace of those 4 pieces. my classic stats is saying sc set is better by like 40dps.......but bis sheets say otherwise
also if im full prebis, is 2 trings better with 15% hit.....or 1 tring, and a painweaver with 14% hit?
vocal sand
maiden cave
@bleak hill 6pc SC is pre-bis. If you don't have/don't want to use 6pc SC, then mix whatever you like
rain river
@bleak hill I'd look to replace the swiftwalkers with Pads of the Dread Wolf too
maiden cave
why? pads are for PvP primarily
fathom rover
guess if you don't do speedruns it doesn't matter anyway
you even skip ragnaros sons phase with people being far from pre raid bis with pvp spec we have more than enough dmg
rain river
I believe the 40 ap is better than the 4 str 21 agi from swiftwalkers @maiden cave
ionic compass
Doesnt 1 agility give 2 ap and crit & dodge. So Dreads are closely behind Swiftwalkers.
rain river
no, agility isn't a 1:2 29 Agility = 29 Attack Power, 1% Crit Chance, 2% Dodge
you're thinking of warriors with 1 str = 2 ap
I mixed that up for a long time as well since I've been a warrior main most of my time in wow
ionic compass
hmm some sites say its 2 and some that its 1. Wowhead says that 1 so im going to believe that then.
rain river
yeah, at the least you can just unequip all your gear and put it on and see how the agility effects the AP in game
trail jasper
Anyone else having issues with Kidney shot timer getting completely fucked whenever you use an ability? My WA, My Classicauraduration and everything fucks it up... It's dead certain that when I use kidney shot and then use another ability afterwards the timer just jumps from whatever duration to 0 and it stops tracking timer progress
rain river
try building in #showtooltip kidney shot into a macro and replace it
ionic compass
But yeah. IΒ΄d personally be happy to have swiftwalkers for pve. Ran so long with the albino crocscale boots without seeing any threads or having motivation to run full brd. Luckily replaced those boots with nightslayers. Min maxing feels quite pointless at the molten core. If you dont raid and want best of the best pre bis gear, then I understand it.
rain river
yeah they are both good pre-raid BiS, think as far as MC and Ony go, pads are just one step higher than swiftrunners but only for raw AP
broken hare
How much raid gear do you need to swap out of SC6 set?
Remember seeing somewhere that it's 4-5 Nightslayer/Bloodfang but couldnt find it anymore
turbid orchid
Did the pvp patch put pvp gear in?
Like, is anything there worth using if pvp is my main goal
spark raptor
Pvp rank 10 gives head+shoulder, set bonus is 40ap. Bis until aq40 unless 8/8 T2 proc is really good.
Pvp rank 12 pants also bis in the same circumstance.
In general, aiming for 2pc blue pvp set is good for many classes
Most notably rogue mage warr
hidden basin
How much does Libram of Constitution sell on your realm for?
ocean imp
Hey guys, question about seal fate builds. It seems pretty agreed upon that seal fate becomes great in the later phases, because you get better crit rate, which improves SF value. However currently you can easily get crit capped with backstab because of the imp. backstab talent, yet it is still not recommended to go SF yet. This implies you should not use backstab with SF, even if you are daggers, and even in the later phases, youd be using SS. Is this correct? no guides i have seen clarify this π¦ bonus question, how would crit capped (54%) backstab SF compare with standard combat daggers, currently? (answered)
misty jetty
hi, is there a spreadsheet to sim dps for upgrades like how the fury warriors have one?
maiden cave
there are 2 on the rogue classic discord
misty jetty
ah i looked in the pins, where can i find the info for that discord
maiden cave
misty jetty
much appreciated bro
unborn agate
Ooo nice didn't know that one existed
raven snow
is there like a list of pre-pre raid BiS? like, if i cant get a certain piece of gear to drop or i never win it what else i should look out for and stuff?
minus swords because i know thrash/mirahs are best until dal rends and stuff
but other slots
steep quartz
Any rogues have good solo PvP spots they want to share?
Ive been doing farmers at NW silithus, between ZF and tanaris for mages farming, Kargath, blasted lands
teal jetty
I have been reading some info, would the 6 set bonus be worth it? Or get the pre-bis
civic crest
If youβre talking 6 piece ahadowcraft. Then fuck yeah
tough pilot
how much hit are you combat daggers playing at?
spark raptor
@ocean imp backstab critcap is 95% crit basically, so the premise of your post falls apart from there :p also SF doesnt become great by default later. it's just good on long fights where your uptime on adrenaline rush is low. for all pre naxx content and some naxx bosses combat stay at least on par with SF builds. it also becomes significantly weaker once you lose songflower buff
regarding SF sword builds - they have a nicer dmg profile cause you do more auto attack dmg, but forget about playing that if youre not late into naxx
halcyon osprey
Krol blade mh Brut blade oh or brut blade mh mirahs song oh?
plucky nymph
BB+Mirahs
plucky nymph
GL
ocean imp
@Aganah wow, cant believe i never realized special attacks dont get glancing blows, done a ton of research on attack tables but i guess it never came up, and i never connected the dots XD Yeah, it all makes sense now, no followup questions, thanks! π
plucky nymph
btw the threshold for Seal Fate is 30% Crit and 9% Hit last I checked.
just need... chest or... pants... ew... DROP ALREADY 
hidden basin
Hey Mizerok. Tyr's Hand aint bad at all. Granted, not the best place in the world for a rogue to grind in, but hey, two Librams of Constitution dropped for me and plus the raw silver and grays/greens I got enogh for an epic mount after raw estimate around 20 hours of /played grinding there.
I didnt see even one Arcan Crystal though lol