classic-discussion

[plucky nymph]

If the fights are never longer than the trinket gets no better :3

20ap waow

[sharp grotto]

https://imgur.com/a/ZFSMqOc is what I’m rocking atm... just don’t know if I want to keep hoj or stay tune lol!! All the farming for hoj now I can’t decide

[fair carbon]

I swear man people in my guild are so up their own ass in terms of “well this is what it says on the list” that they don’t think “oh this is actually garbage when we kill a boss in literal seconds.”

[plucky nymph]

Even the Bloodmoon spreadsheet can show 0 HoJ procs in 1min fights >_>

or 2

or 0

Depends.

[wraith parcel]

Wait so HoJ procs show up at the exact same time on warcraftlogs when looking at rogues? 🤔
Why is there a 0.3-0.4s delay for bears when it procs 🤔

[plucky nymph]

No idea, pretty sure that's WF+SS really.

Swing procs are a mystery.

[wraith parcel]

I mean, HoJ is pretty funky in general, since it allows bears to do 2 mauls

[plucky nymph]

Ye.

[wraith parcel]

Granted, they still cost rage, but its an extra maul instead of an auto

[plucky nymph]

It's also super dope for 2H-fury/arms/etc.

Just wack for DWing.

[sharp grotto]

Does HoJ just do 2 autos?

[plucky nymph]

2?

[sharp grotto]

I mean 2% for an auto

Never knew really... just got it and curious

If it copies your atk or just an auto

[wraith parcel]

Its pretty dope for me as a bear too Miz, a proc of it is essentially a taunt. Literally out aggroing our fury-prot warrior even though he taunted on cd

[plucky nymph]

ye

[drowsy phoenix]

miz I find your text tone much less aggressive after hearing how you speak

[plucky nymph]

lol

I am not very snarky when I speak usually.

[hushed laurel]

@wraith parcel taunting on CD 🤢

[plucky nymph]

Fighting Rag TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT TAUNT

MELEE NO IT RESISTED!

/dies

[hushed laurel]

just use a spare tank that just moves out with melee

melee dying on rag is kinda hard imo

[shadow tapir]

it was so stupid lol

[plucky nymph]

Yeah well threat is still threat.

You want that fiery fucker dead before submerge yer gonna wanna pump.

[shadow tapir]

would be nice

we will se

[plucky nymph]

and if you're horde, the earlier you get used to being 90% threat the better.

Have to push your tanks as well.

[sharp grotto]

We just bounce in and out.... past 4 resets we killed em phase 1

[plucky nymph]

Yeah that's what everyone does O_O

[hushed laurel]

we have to have 2 of our dps warriors hold back, one has bre the other has gutgore and something else, but both ride the line. the bre orc dies towards the end of most trash pulls

[plucky nymph]

I don't think ours is that bad, but he's also probably not pressing hamstring THAT hard.

[shadow tapir]

Perds dropped

Just won brut blade

Regret

[plucky nymph]

ha

HEMO S-WORDS!!

[shadow tapir]

yeah 😦

Oh well, will get it eventually

[plucky nymph]

I just want my Vis'kag before BGs.

[shadow tapir]

Id take that too I suppose

Just enjoy daggers

[hushed laurel]

our tanks arent as geared im sure. but also he crits every windfury proc so 🤷

[plucky nymph]

heh

our Rag tank

[shadow tapir]

You have a bear do it?

[plucky nymph]

Yeah this week.

Super smooth.

Because bears are silly.

[shadow tapir]

Does rag do a lot of physical?

[plucky nymph]

It's composite damage.

Second tank.

hmmm

Other threat tank has 9% hit and T1-3 T2-1

Literally all of our 8 warriors have HoJ hahaha

5 have Lionheart+SGC

👌

Stupid game.

👌

[hushed laurel]

i need to pick up my rivenspike. ive resigned myself to OOT life, and i need to be useful before we can get me a nightfall

[plucky nymph]

I think we're ditching Nightfall due to low proc chance.

[sharp grotto]

We farmed for 3 days for it for one of our warriors

[plucky nymph]

Probably just gonna stock up for Thunderfurys, IMO.

[shadow tapir]

Is Rivenspike just a weaker Annihilator

[plucky nymph]

Yeah I think so.

[hushed laurel]

yerp

[shadow tapir]

We one shot Rag after you told me about Taunt btw

Oh its the same

Assuming it stacks like it

[hushed laurel]

weaker weapon, but same proc

[plucky nymph]

o _o

👍

[shadow tapir]

yeah lol

[plucky nymph]

1.7 is megaFast.

[hushed laurel]

yah, rivenspike isnt that much worse

[shadow tapir]

Ive suggested it to the raid leader, just get ignored

so

[plucky nymph]

We're at the point that if our tanks don't call out that their taunt resisted in the 2 seconds it takes for melee to walk back up.

GL.

[shadow tapir]

lol

[plucky nymph]

I made a nice WA that posts when it succeeds, please think of your melee.

OH GOD DON'T GO IN

/blargh

[hushed laurel]

fuck my melee. if my taunt gets resisted they can live with their consequences. also my taunt got resisted 6 times in a row last night across a few pulls. i was upset

[plucky nymph]

Yeaaaaaaaaah.

[hushed laurel]

we have 5 tanks, so we have spare taunts. makes life mildly easier for people knowing we have 4 peopel all saying "X has taunted". except the healers who now have about .3 seconds to figure out who to start a heal on

[plucky nymph]

Hot Potato Healing.

We've just assigned tank healers so there's no chance of them dying.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dusk crystal]

potato squad

sell our guild didn't get rag down yday

wasn't there xd

[echo oasis]

guys could someone pls explain me how much +% hit do I need if I'm a human with 2xweapon expertise (+10 sword skill total)?

[plucky nymph]

There's a chart for this.

[echo oasis]

I must be stupid, I thought the more sword skill u get the less the hit cap isn't it?

I've played too much classic recently my brain is dead

[hushed laurel]

Its the difference

63s have 315 defense, you have 10 skill, so look at delta 5

[plucky nymph]

Δ = Difference

[echo oasis]

So reachin this cap will guarantee that I will not miss with my ss?

[hushed laurel]

.5 is basically the same as 1, so you need 6% hit, 5 of which can come from talents, so you need 1. You'll prolly overcap hit but that's ok

Yes. You'll still miss with white hits though

That hit cap is...27%? So irrelevant

[echo oasis]

now I get it thx man, I think I'll probably switch some of my talents and use that free points from precision then, since I overcapped with that elven rings

[plucky nymph]

I made a stupid table;

+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
| ΔDefense/Skill | Glancing penalty | Miss chance | Hit cap |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|       15       |   35% (~35.12)   |     8.0%    |   9.0%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|       14       |        31%       |     7.8%    |   8.8%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|       13       |   27% (~26.74%)  |     7.6%    |   8.6%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|       12       |   23% (~22.72%)  |     7.4%    |   8.4%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|       11       |        19%       |     7.2%    |   8.2%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|       10       |   15% (~14.82%)  |     6.0%    |   6.0%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        9       |        11%       |     5.9%    |   5.9%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        8       |        7%        |     5.8%    |   5.8%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        7       |    5% (~5.12%)   |     5.7%    |   5.7%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        6       |        5%        |     5.6%    |   5.6%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        5       |    5% (~4.96%)   |     5.5%    |   5.5%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        4       |        5%        |     5.4%    |   5.4%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        3       |        5%        |     5.3%    |   5.3%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+
|        2       |        5%        |     5.2%    |   5.2%  |
+----------------+------------------+-------------+---------+

1 and 0 don't fit.

lol

Just imagine they are there.

[winged crystal]

your face when every display/resolution/window size makes this not look like how you want it

[plucky nymph]

Yeah it's... weird.

[surreal mirage]

So I'm hearing a lot about Shadowcraft 6 piece outperforming the pre raid BiS that is everywhere. Are there any updated BiS lists since DM came out? Or did DM have no effect?

[shadow tapir]

DM replaced rings basically

Bracers if you didnt need 6 piece SC, OH dagger

[surreal mirage]

Ah, ok, Thanks for the info

[versed cedar]

hey guys, has anyone a WA that has an increasing counter for HoJ procs ?

[rare crystal]

with 6 piece SC you still go for rend or is something else like krol + fast dagger better?

[plucky nymph]

Combat Daggers is better regardless if you have MC daggers.

[ember aurora]

whats the combat dagger spec most people are running for PvE now?

[rare crystal]

are you doing backstab then or still sinister strike?

[plucky nymph]

You have a dagger, you backstab.

[rare crystal]

sounds good 🙂

but its only good with MC daggers i guess? im not even 60 yet but already collecting 6p SC, was going for rend but jesus this is rare

is there a dagger alternative to go for dagger combat already?

do you use the DM dagger with +6 dagger and 1,3 speed? but its only 40 dps

[plucky nymph]

A few minutes ago, we enacted a change to how the populations are calculated in the WoW Classic realm list. Since shortly after the launch of WoW Classic, the realm list population labels have indicated real-time population levels.

Now, the Low/Medium/High/Full labels are based on peak population over the last 7 days. We believe this provides a more-useful picture of a realm’s population to players who are making decisions about which realm to play on or transfer to.

The realms which have not yet moved to one layer will continue to be marked “Layered”.

Thank you!

Source: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/realm-list-populations-updated-28-october/98659

[shadow tapir]

Just found out the Perds that dropped wnet to the rogue it did because he was dagger spec

rofl

Ignored the other rogues that needed because they were swords at the time

[fair carbon]

If Viskag drops tonight I’ll be fuming cause some new guy will win it

Thanks EPGP

[shadow tapir]

The one rogue bought Krol Blade awhile back and was like "So I shouldve just used Barmans and had worse dps during our kills so I had a shot?"

lol

[plucky nymph]

I mean if he wanted to be daggers... then he should be daggers...

[shadow tapir]

Why? He had a better sword

Couldve went daggers after

With that logic he shouldve grabbed a boe Shadowfoot stabber and went in

[plucky nymph]

Get in there pussah.

This is why when people laugh at the idea of gear planning for the tier I laugh at them because we've no issues with loot drops due to it.

[shadow tapir]

I would prefer there be a plan, way too off the cuff atm

[hushed laurel]

we just dropped our loot system on our guild. our solution to that is "if you roll on a dagger, you arent taking swords from warriors or rogues until they dont care anymore" and viceversa.

[shadow tapir]

Seems fair to me

[hushed laurel]

Same goes for warriors and 2hs vs 1hs. Makes shit easy.

Then again, our loot system also involves filling out a Google form or you aren't eligible for loot, so it's not that simple.

[smoky ridge]

8% from hitting 60 , gonna spec dagger for pve , where do I find any good build ?

[rare crystal]

i try to build one but im not sure yet.. thats how it looks so far https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-planner/rogue/human/AjwRAFIDEE8CUwUAAFUBACIfBfABQUMCPDMDQUQFQVEGQUkHOtYIQUcJQUYKOtcLSEQMSEQNNo0OLicPNBwQMe8RNDgSR5M

still unsure about HoJ.. is it woarth using that for dagger? or is the green 1 hit 20 ap trinket better..

and im unsure about the SC setup, should i drop the devilsaur set and lose 1 crit + some AP and use mask of unforgiven + truestrike shoulders instead to get 2 hit more?

and another thing.. for raiding, is the +6 dagger from diremaul a thing or not.. don't think i will stand in front of bosses 😄

[misty dirge]

so, WP or Winterspring for a lvl 55 rogue? 🙂

[drowsy phoenix]

WPL shoots from like 50 to 55 to 58 in a matter of 5-6 quests

[hushed laurel]

Yerp. If you're horde, id save wpl for 57 or so.

Winterspring has some decent grind quests

Yeti hides and horns are mad exp

[plucky nymph]

👌

[versed cedar]

how many runs did you have to get HoJ? I got lucky and "only" had 30 runs 😉

[plucky nymph]

2 don't tell anyone.

[fair carbon]

[plucky nymph]

_>

<_<

[fair carbon]

[plucky nymph]

n o p e

[fair carbon]

Just realized I'm still in the classic channel. Nice one me

[plucky nymph]

:3

[fossil steeple]

had a guildy get 3 back to back hoj drops

[plucky nymph]

Against a Level 40 Earth Elemental with a Skinning Knife in the Offhand.

HoJ is fucked.

Works as intended (full damage MH procs) without an OH equipped.

Enjoy your HoJs ahhaha.

[dusk crystal]

lmao

assume it won't get fixed

if it was like this

easy for them to test

[plucky nymph]

Yeah.

It was probably like this in Vanilla as well.

[maiden cave]

someone on rogue discord tested it and came to the conclusion that it was Recount fucking up, not HoJ

just fyi

[plucky nymph]

I can see that.

I saw some weird shit so it's believable.

Things like; https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/614262200617664533/638657388433637386/unknown.png

no DMG.

[old stone]

recount in 2019

[dusk crystal]

details is fucking up too imo

no meter seems to work 100%

better manually check log file

[plucky nymph]

The hits exist though >_>

again, skinning knife OH

again, OH attack for 63 and 62, two different attacks at the same time, no Slice and Dice reducing swing time, 1.6 second swing time on the skinning knife.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I am going to bed @maiden cave but I'd love to know where these second attacks from a dagger are coming from.

[maiden cave]

ask the guy who tested it

[cyan vessel]

GrizzledToday at 11:04 AM
recount in 2019

THIS

[dusk crystal]

it's classic who cares

recount users must be inferior

[versed cedar]

HoJ is so inconsistent in proccing. had yesterday a ubrs run with 5% procs oO was pretty hyped (first run after i got it). Now on farming it s about 1,5% proc chance

[tropic karma]

Yeah keep arguing against HoJ while the top parsing rogues are using it

[fathom rover]

Guess it depends on the situation. Most people optimize their gear for longer fights / raid encounters. Not for ubrs or dungeon trash.

[sharp grotto]

Lol well honestly raid bosses are dying just as fast or faster than some dungeon bosses lol

But I just got hoj so I’m goin to be trying it over tune of guard....

[onyx stag]

Anyone test shadowcraft 6p?

[sharp grotto]

It’s bis yea

[frosty rover]

"The top parsing rogue"

woa

I mean we don't care about parsing because MC is done with 25 player consistantly and because if we step a foot in MC it's only to get Perdition Blade in order to OS mages with our shitty (pve wise) 31/8/12 spec.

[maiden cave]

you may not care, but the topic at hand is often optimizing PvE performance where that is relevant

[molten pagoda]

hey whats better for a rogue in classic.....42 attack power or 3 strength with 18 agility?

for pve

[onyx stag]

Well its 42 AP vs 21 AP and something like .5% crit

[molten pagoda]

where you getting the 21 ap from?

[winged crystal]

agil is roughly 1.75 AEP or so, it fluctuates with level and gear but that's about where it is I believe

still only gets to 31 AP

[molten pagoda]

is that 1.75 AEP stay the same through classic or does it change as you get more agility?

[winged crystal]

it fluctuates a bit but there are spreadsheets to really zero in on it available somewhere

http://www.mediafire.com/file/fg19esagjyfj3yl/RogueDPS_Bloodmoon_v.1.8.xls/file

you have to input all your own gear/stats a bit but at the bottom you get the numbers. with the gear in that you can see agil is 1.81 AEP

[frosty rover]

Maybe I'm dumb but AEP stands for Agility Equivalent Point right, so how can 1 agility = 1.75 AEP :/ ?

[vocal hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-use-your-brain-use-the-brain-think-brain-gif-7914082

[frosty rover]

or maybe aep stands for Attack power equivalent point

[winged crystal]

something like that, I think a lot of people have different abbreviations

[maiden cave]

its EAP if you use AP as the base

fucking who cares

[frosty rover]

it's fun but indeed

well anyway this equivalent point system is a good start but it still have some inaccuracie because of stats like crit and hit that have dynamic value

higher is your crit chance, lower crit is valued etc...

[winged crystal]

that's why the spreadsheet exists

because you input your own gear and it will adjust

[marble dune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/351150309088690186/638749018888994837/hojproc.png

this is a MH proc swing isnt it?

[spark raptor]

Looks like it

[near fable]

why are rogues going krol blade instead of sword of zeal

its cheaper and simply better

[marble dune]

bc its purple

[near fable]

xD

[winged crystal]

sword of zeal > thrash?

[near fable]

https://shadowpanther.net/swords-pve.htm

ye

[winged crystal]

oh nice, thanks. that's def an improvement and hot damn viskang is up there overall

be keeping my eye out on the AH for it just in case

[marble dune]

Does anyone remember how CP (honor pts) are shared between non-group members?
Like if i did 95% of a players health, another person comes in at last second and tag him once, do we split the honor evenly?

[plucky nymph]

Fucking brilliant reply.

[rapid night]

Anyone know of any addon-ons offhand that tell you who owns the current mob's loot? (I recall there being one in vanilla, just can't remember the name).

[plucky nymph]

eg. Who didn't LOOT THE FUCKING HOUND?!

Sounds familiar.

[rapid night]

Yeah that was what I was remembering as well lol, something around loot the hound

[hushed laurel]

We had to really dig deep to get people to check their hound loot last week. Holy shit people are dumb

[shell summit]

What would you guys recommend as the most efficient way to level up bow skill on a rogue?

[winged crystal]

do you know a friend that is a warlock?

[shell summit]

My friend has a warlock alt lol

[winged crystal]

have a warlock banish an elemental or something, and you can shoot at it for as long as you need. he just has to keep it banished

[fair carbon]

If you’re 60

Shazzrah

If you’re doing the firing squad strat

I never actively leveled bow skill but I’m at 300 cause of that

[neat sun]

Bah. It’s my week to sit on the rotation. I refuse to pug MC.

Level ranged weapons in any area that’s mostly casters. Go to the Altar of Zul in Hinterlands - you can shoot you bow for hours.

[signal ember]

I'm just on bandage duty for that fight.

[hushed laurel]

being on bandage duty on shazzrah sounds even worse than being the melee nightfall hunter

thankfully shazzrah has 5 health and is made of paper

[halcyon loom]

what daggers should we aim to get

non mc

i know baron drops one

[shadow tapir]

Barmans shanker is good outside of pvp. Bonescraper or distracting dagger OH

[halcyon loom]

what about pvp wise

i mean is it 2 daggers for pvp

or can we just use a dagger in mh

[shadow tapir]

Id imagine outside of the BoE ones that Bonescraper would be the way to go for pvp. Barmans will break Blind

[halcyon loom]

i was gonna go for the one from the ras quest line since its easy to obtain

[shadow tapir]

you want a fast OH, daggers are fast

A lot of people use that one, yeah

[halcyon loom]

but just not sure if you use 2x daggers for pvp

or not

[shadow tapir]

Yes

No reason not to

[halcyon loom]

obvs need a dagger in mh for ambush

[shadow tapir]

OH doesnt prevent using abilities but you still want a fast one for poison

[halcyon loom]

yeah just gotta use what i can i think, barons dagger never drops lol

i might use darrowspike mh, rends oh until i get better

at least i can still use ambush cause you need a dagger mh

[shadow tapir]

Get Mirahs Song at least

Much better OH

[halcyon loom]

not thaat much better

armor is nice from rend oh for pvp

[shadow tapir]

Its 9 agi and 9 strength

[tough pilot]

you never want to use dal rends unless you have both equipped

mirah's is WAY better

even for pvp

[halcyon loom]

k

[old stone]

12th guild onyxia kill, first bloodfang hood spotted

[plucky nymph]

w o o

[old stone]

breaks my shadowcraft 6 piece so cant use it yet anyway

our t1 drops have been awful too

[civic crest]

When will you break your Shadowcraft then? I’m honestly considering not getting any t1 and just go 6/8 shadow 2/8 t2

[plucky nymph]

5p NS is fine.

By then you will probably have T2 helm or pants as well.

IIRC you're goal is, 2pcT2, 5pcT1, Bracers of the Eclipse.

[signal ember]

a year later.

[plucky nymph]

lol

I think you can pick between Cadaverous chest or Bracers of the Eclipse, then fill everything else in.

Checking right now.

NS bracers are soooo doodoo thou.

Nope that's the list I get.

Though the other options are within like, 10dps?

So good it's OFF THE CELL

Also only like... 15dps over BB but w/e.

4000g for 15dps 👌

[old stone]

I got BB in MH atm, very slim chance i'm ever getting viskag

[plucky nymph]

If you're Alliance or in a weird/casual guild, sure.

[old stone]

we use loot council, think I would be about 3rd in line to get a viskag but so far we havent seen one yet

[plucky nymph]

Eh it's random one week you see none than you get three in a row.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

wtb six Bindings thou O _O

[old stone]

yesterday we had the shittiest onyxia kill ive ever seen, we run a split getting some non raiders in

think it was 23 people

[plucky nymph]

Splits are skeeeeeetchy.

[old stone]

and the kill took like 20 minutes

[plucky nymph]

😐

We've no Quel'serrars this week so we're probably doing splits.

[old stone]

at least I got the helm but I was unimpressed with the display

[plucky nymph]

and our splits have like, me+1 other Viskag user O_O

[old stone]

we swap people around according to the loot they need

[plucky nymph]

Yerp

[old stone]

MC clear tonight, hyped to see 0 nightslayer again

[plucky nymph]

eg. We're booting all our locks.

Because last week they got all their fucking helmets.

[old stone]

we disenchanted a hunter helm yesterday

[plucky nymph]

ow

[old stone]

weve had 6 I think?

4x essence of pure flame from rag

at least we got 4 onslaughts, maybe even 5

[dusk crystal]

best item

[halcyon loom]

rune of guard captain is better than hoj

hmm

dunno bout that lol

[dusk crystal]

suppose it can be if you get fucked on rng but not better on avg

not a huge difference either way

HoJ is good but it's no DST

[winged crystal]

kind of glad I got the rune guard trinket then

[sharp grotto]

Everyone on horde should have it lol

[winged crystal]

at the time I didn't think about it and just said "oh i'll go back eventually". then some friends were on trying to 2man the elites so I thought, nows my chance

[spark raptor]

DST is tbc

[winged crystal]

yes but in tbc DST was god tier

[versed cedar]

@halcyon loom any data on that? since i got HoJ my overall dmg over all content I do raised about 20 dps. and hoj was the only think I switched in

im tracking the overall proc rate atm and its at 1% overall at the moment

[maiden cave]

he was doubting it

not claiming it

[fresh vessel]

I have Rend's two piece sword set. Last night I received Core hound dagger (1.6 speed) and have the blue dagger from barron (1.4 speed).

does it make sense to stay sword spec until i get a main hand dagger with 1.8 speed/better damage to match rends?

[worldly juniper]

what do you guys think of this

better to be chasing daggers?

[tropic karma]

I think you should have the right settings in the spreadsheet first

you're not doing 800 dps on single target

[worldly juniper]

what settings could i even change? besides talents

[tough pilot]

I was gonna say 800 dps, how lmao

[winged crystal]

weapon dps seems high but I don't know if that's calculated or manually entered. main hand 177.72 dps meanwhile perditions is 58.33. not sure that's how it works though

[worldly juniper]

they are the values from the drop down selection

[winged crystal]

yeah maybe that's how much the avg white hit is, i'm not too sure. just looking for things that stand out.

[worldly juniper]

looks fine to me , talents are fine, vael fight is no, fight uptime 100%, front attack no,block no, rupture allow no

[fresh vessel]

where do you configure if you are using backstab or SS?

also, does this spreadsheet handle Windfury?

[maiden cave]

it does, under weapon buffs

[plucky nymph]

👌

[old stone]

its essence of pure flame time

5th one

[plucky nymph]

lol

[old stone]

1 piece of rogue tier

[glass timber]

I have 3 arcanite bars only 97 more

[plucky nymph]

Long-term plans 👌

[quasi forge]

hi, just wanna ask, is there any information regarding shadowcraft 6 set proc-rate ?

[bleak hill]

So i need a question answered and hopefully you fellow rogues can give me a huge hand

Im not quite understand hit and what to do after cap. From what i understand, i get a +6 hit from skills going combat dagger rogue, 5/5 precision and 1% from 2/2 expertise......i was told you need 9% hit cap to reach for pve and 5% for pvp

So once ive hit the 3% off my gear for hit, should i stop obtaining hit gear?

[loud tree]

the cap is just for yellow hits to never miss, hit is still good after that

[bleak hill]

And should i ignore the prebis list and try to utilize my gear around the best slots tht utilize ONLY 3% hit?

[plucky nymph]

Nah.

[bleak hill]

Someone told me as a combat dagger rogue, id want to crit stack after i hit 9% hit, is tht true?

[plucky nymph]

Crit is worth more than Hit after 9% yes.

[bleak hill]

Gotcha. So once ive gotten 3% from gear, i should aim for crit over ap, agi, and hit?

[plucky nymph]

1%, you get 3% hit from being @ 305 weapon skill versus a level 63 target.

[bleak hill]

I was told tht puttin 2/2 im weapon expertise gives me 305 dagger skill, which adds 1.2% hit to my hit cap, is that accurate?

[plucky nymph]

What's the chart say?

10 level difference = 6% required for special hit cap.

5% you can get from Precision, 1% from gear.

Hit is still pretty good after that, but Crit is better.

[molten forge]

rword bad.

[bleak hill]

Oh srry my bad

Wnt use again

[molten forge]

[loud tree]

oh hi zine
green zine

[tender grotto]

hey all! just got my viskag and wanted to see if you guys think mirah's song is the best oh atm or is there anything better?

[maiden cave]

mirah is your best offhand before you get cht/bb

[tender grotto]

i had this wild thought that maybe sticking trash blade in oh could be decent for a human

[plucky nymph]

Mirah's is also a sword.

[tender grotto]

yeah but i thought maybe the proc would be worth it

[short trench]

Is there anywhere I can see the exact classic combat swords rotation/priority? Some sort of official ravenholdt guide ?

[neat sun]

So, I've been reading a bit and some people are saying it's always optimal to have elemental sharpening stones on your OH and not poisons? Anyone ever seen any data on that?

[plucky nymph]

The wowhead guide goes over the rotation @short trench

[short trench]

Even ss weaving and swing timers?

[plucky nymph]

If you wanna, probably not worth it.

Especially considering the extremely tiny duration of most fights.

1down

[shadow tapir]

gratz

[plucky nymph]

if VK drops it's probably mine as well O _O new rogues + daggers + no other sword dood

[steep quartz]

Is there any updated Rogue PvP site? Ive used ShadowPanther but they dont go into specifics about gear and builds

[shadow tapir]

Brut blade probably keeps me from any weapon for a long time unfortunately

[plucky nymph]

;\

[onyx stag]

how much dps gain is windfury for us

[plucky nymph]

Very many, no better button for Shaman to press.

[worldly juniper]

did anyone try replicate my bloodmoon sheets earlier to see if my DPS findings were wrong?

[shadow tapir]

How sought after are Dark Iron Bars? Pretty sure I could solo the smelting

I guess the person would need to go to the anvil anyway

[plucky nymph]

Yee

Either way there should be more need for Vael.

[glass timber]

^

lot of fr gear for a bunch of tanks its worth stocking up on it

[shadow tapir]

More in consideration of flipping ore to bars

[versed cedar]

are there any character services available in classic?

[sand cipher]

none right now @versed cedar

there is item restoration but that's it

[versed cedar]

kk thx so far 🙂

[hidden basin]

Can you go hive mining without stealth tallents?

[winged crystal]

i'm sure you can, it's probably just more difficult

[molten pagoda]

is there a guild ranking website for classic kinda like wowprogress does for retail?

[tough pilot]

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1000#metric=speed

@molten pagoda that's prob best we have atm right there. Clear speeds of all who upload

[crisp briar]

hey guys what are you guys going for for boot enchants?

+agi or +speed

cant seem to find a definitive answer on which is better

[marble dune]

@molten pagoda https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1000#metric=progress

This is a indicator of which killed cleared it "first" rather than "speed"

[maiden cave]

@crisp briar everyone goes speed because its so nice to have

[crisp briar]

i feel that

it is indeed nice

[fair carbon]

Imagine being LC with extra steps

[bleak hill]

Whats a better offhand to use as rogue combat swords in raids, Assassinations Blade / Mirahs Song.........or Assassinations Blade / Dal Rends Tribal OH

[fair carbon]

Mirah’s

Never use Dal’Rend’s if you don’t have the full set

[bleak hill]

Figured. Thank you.

Assasinations blade is better than thrash blade rite?

[fair carbon]

That one I’m not sure of

[plucky nymph]

[bleak hill]

Curious if that extra hit proc is enuff to weigh out 2.4 dps and 1% crit

[plucky nymph]

One better than the other, by a good amount even.

[maiden cave]

@bleak hill thrash blade will outperform ass blade in a raid scenario

[indigo star]

i want to pick pocket farm brd without respeccing for raids every week, if i go combat daggers with 5/5 camo and 2/2 elusiveness instead of lethality and murder will it hurt my dps significantly?

[tough pilot]

@indigo star yes. You're talking about losing 2% damage from murder and a bunch of crit loss from lethality.

Thats pretty big loss of power.

[indigo star]

yeah that's what i figured. sucks to have to respec so much, but that speed helps so much with mining in hives and pick pocketing

[tough pilot]

Yeah it's def a rough quality of life. No denying that.

[past arrow]

Shadowpanther is telling me Hameya's Slayer is better then thrash, so the bleed is better then the xtra attack ?

ahh for offhand

[plucky nymph]

ye careful about that

[royal topaz]

heya dudes, i have 6% hit from gear and 5% from precision (also +5 dagger talent), is ancient bone bow better than satyr's in this case?

[plucky nymph]

They're close enough to one another that it doesn't matter.

[past arrow]

speaking of hit, as a human going swords how much hit do i want?

is it 6% or 9 %

thought it was 9, but does the extra +5 swords from racial make up for it?

[shadow tapir]

https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#weapon-skill

Can check that out for weapon skill benefits

Basically getting 305 weapon skill removes some weird penalties Blizzard put in place so it is essentially 3% hit

Meaning with 305 weapon skill you need only 6% hit from talents/gear to reach yellow cap

[past arrow]

😮 i have some serious optimization to do, 59 but have 12% hit already

[shadow tapir]

More hit than that isnt bad

Still a good stat

White attacks can still miss

[bleak hill]

@maiden cave why do you say that?

[plucky nymph]

o _o

Procs are dope on fights that last 2+ minutes.

Thrash is very solid @ 60 to begin with.

and it's free.

[pallid vigil]

at what point does too much weaponskill become meaningless?

[shadow tapir]

308 makes glancing blows only 95% damage which is the maximum. After that weapon skill gives a minor amount of hit

https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#weapon-skill

Can check that out

[pallid vigil]

so we wanna get to 308 for max dps?

also how much bigger of a dps gain is +5 weapon damage vs crusader?

for daggers, does anyone know?

are there sims anyone for this type of stuff?

[sand cipher]

i'm not positive because i play swords, but i'm pretty sure you want striking on your mainhand dagger, because of the way the dagger spells scale

[plucky nymph]

Ye

[pallid vigil]

That’s good to know but is there any theorycrafting for it? What do you mean by by how dagger spells scale?

Is there a comparison of crusader vs striking? How big of a dps increase is it?

Is it e.g. significant or are we talking 1% gain type of stuff to use striking over crusader

@sand cipher @plucky nymph

[sand cipher]

daggers spells do %weapon damage so having more flat weapon damage all the time is probably more valuable than 100str on a proc

@pallid vigil i cant offer hard data but that's just what i observe most people doing, and what i assume to be the reason behind it

[pallid vigil]

Are there any classic rogue theorycrafting resources anywhere? Or sim bots?

I’ve noticed crusader on two weapons can have 40-75% uptime which is pretty significant.

Is there math we can do to compare attack power vs weapon damage?

+5 weapon damage increases both the low end and top end of the damage by 5, correct?

[sand cipher]

a lot of the algorithms used by the game can be found online

i dont understand it in depth enough to do my own calculations though

and no simming resources yet as far as i know

if i were you, i would check the nostalrius/elysium forums. no doubt people have had these questions before

classic isnt exactly "new" 😉

[fathom rover]

Another thing to consider is that weapon skill only counts for that weapon. I've got the 5% from talent and +5 from weapon expertise and 2% hit from gear. Had some misses with my blinds during ubrs or farming thorium in the silithus hives.

[tacit pollen]

@pallid vigil the rogue classic discord has a spreadsheet for simming.

and a ton of people theorycrafting in general

[sand cipher]

can you actually link that discord @tacit pollen

i wasnt aware it existed

[tacit pollen]

https://discord.gg/6p2Zrh

[sand cipher]

tyvm

[misty dirge]

just a question, why can a mob 2 levels below me resist 3 times in a row. With two points in elemental presicion. Noob question ik

wrong disc:D

[drowsy phoenix]

it just can, simple as that

[patent depot]

Can anyone shoot me some pros/cons of hemo vs backstab pvp? I'm tempted to grab daggers in my raid group (meaning I'll be locked to daggers for a bit) so I can have the quick burst for pvp without relying on setups and really needing 1v1's as hemo

I have dal'rends so I feel like even if I got raid daggers, I'd still be fine with playing sword hemo if I wanted since evis is static damage. I'd just be at a slight disadvantage from hemo/auto damage

[civic crest]

I believe hemp sword is stronger because of the amount of combo points you generate. You’ll pump out more evi, which are not weapon dependent and very strong in p2

[hushed laurel]

None of our rogues wanted to go dagger spec last night, so now I get to tank with a gutgore. Shanksticklyfe

[sand cipher]

daggers is generally accepted as the better and more fun spec for premades, from what i've gathered

swords is not bad, but it's a lot less dynamic in terms of what you can do. you can't spend cp on kidney without losing massive damage, because evis is all your damage in the spec

likewise you cant swap targets without losing massive damage either

and outside cb you dont do much

plus you can run imp sprint/kick as daggers and not severely gimp yourself

[raven snow]

what am i ever going to do with all of these

[maiden cave]

hope they rise in price when p2 starts

[plucky nymph]

ezMoneyO_O

meebeeNot

is only Honored as well.

[maiden cave]

thats only in BGs and not before P3

plenty of nerds will use superior pots for P2 PvP if too poor for Majors

[plucky nymph]

Ye

[near wagon]

having a choice between AP or crit which would better and is there a crit cap as well as hit?

[raven snow]

yeah 40% is the crit cap for your offhand white auto attacks

at 9% hit

but the more hit% you increase

the higher the crit cap becomes aswell

so therefore whenever you are world buff it is worth

swapping on a few more pieces of hit

[maiden cave]

@near wagon the response you got was pretty shit/inaccurate, if you want a proper calculator for checking your crit cap: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NWKnSmYseruEUb06wOYbWHS6IxriHNd7E2fkBRBXxLY/copy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLD12oUwJoE explains it quite well

[quaint barn]

can I check for thistle tea in warcraft logs?

[maiden cave]

@quaint barn sure

go to casts

[quaint barn]

Also two new questions came to mind:
-Is Thistle tea + AR while under BF a possible idea? To get Tea in on cleave?
-Does oil of immolation share CD with Sappers? And is dragonbreath chili worth it?

[maiden cave]

its very worth to use TT + AR during BF

thats how you get huge parses on cleave fights

like luci/gehennas/sulf

[bleak hill]

If I have 10% hit......i shouldnt be missing white hits should on? on a lvl 57 elite?

should i?*

[fossil steeple]

white hit cap is 27% iirc

[bleak hill]

2nd question, whats better, 8 piece shadowcraft set, or 6 piece with 2 piece devilsaur set? For PVE

and i just dont understand.....so i have 5/5 precision and 2/2 expertise......so AFTER that hit is applied, do i want +3% hit to gear.....or +4% hit to gear

cuz im being told that crit is the best stat to have after 9% but i cant figure out where im getting the full 9% from

[plucky nymph]

@maiden cave Whether you think @raven snow 's response was shit or inaccurate or not is nice but don't berate members of members of the server especially when the answer is right to begin with just not explained very well.

Thanks for the Hit/Crit Calc. doc though that's very very helpful.

[maiden cave]

stop acting like a little baby

I didn't say anything about him, just that it was a shit/inaccurate response (which it was)

@bleak hill How much hit % do I need to never miss yellow attacks (Sinister Strike/Backstab/etc.) vs raid bosses?
300 Weapon Skill: 9%
305 Weapon Skill: 6%
315 Weapon Skill: 5% (but you generally should not aim for 315+ Weapon Skill)
This is total hit % required, so if you are playing a regular Combat raiding spec with 5/5 Precision and 2/2 Weapon Expertise, you will not miss yellow attacks with just 1% hit from gear.

Then all hit % beyond those values is useless?
No. This only applies to yellow attacks. Your white hits will still have a large miss % due to the Dual Wield penalty applied from wielding 2 weapons. What people commonly refer to as a "hit cap" is more accurately the absolute minimum amount of hit % you want to have. Hit % above that still improves your overall damage since it will cause more white hits to land, and white hits tend to be ~50% of your overall damage (depending on gear/fight length/and so on).

@bleak hill 6pc SC + 2x devilsaur

[plucky nymph]

@maiden cave Just stop calling people names and shit talking... it's not that hard.

@bleak hill 6pc SC + Truestrike / Cadaverous Chest is an equal option if you don't want to spend the money on Devilsaur and would rather skip it entirely.

[maiden cave]

I didn't call him names, I just said it was bad advice (it was)

everything about it was inaccurate

why are you acting out again?

[marble dune]

[plucky nymph]

@maiden cave This is quickly getting off-topic, present your better advice without deriding those before you, simple request really.

[maiden cave]

I didn't "deride" anyone, I said the advice was bad and gave a proper calculator (where you can then verify that the given advice was bad and wrong)

I don't think Luffy is losing any sleep

are you?

[plucky nymph]

I'd never.

[maiden cave]

then lighten up ;p

[plucky nymph]

You've a history of belittling people, why would I do that?

[molten forge]

[hushed laurel]

[sturdy citrus]

[maiden cave]

why you would lighten up? idk, seems like you needed it

[bleak hill]

This is total hit % required, so if you are playing a regular Combat raiding spec with 5/5 Precision and 2/2 Weapon Expertise, you will not miss yellow attacks with just 1% hit from gear.

how is that so? i thought 5/5 gives u 5%.....and weapon expertise gives u 1%

so if i need 9%, wouldnt i need a total of 3%

[maiden cave]

if you want the explanation for it, read https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table

[bleak hill]

not 1%

[maiden cave]

otherwise just trust it ;p

[bleak hill]

i just dont get how 5% + 1% + 1% = 9%....?

[maiden cave]

read the webpage

[bleak hill]

kk doin it now ty

[maiden cave]

👍

[plucky nymph]

Because there's 2% hit magically given through the math @bleak hill

[hushed laurel]

weaponskill is dumb is the tldr

[maiden cave]

weaponskill is OP in raiding :[

[maiden cave]

bit silly

[plucky nymph]

All you need to rid.

It's very silly ye.

Well the first 8 or so anyway.

[hushed laurel]

5 is the real important number, before that its ok, after 5 its still pretty meh

[plucky nymph]

GOTTA GET YOUR HIDDEN NUMBERS DOWN

But yeah 4 to 5 is literally magic.

Everything else is whatever.

[bleak hill]

do all raid monsters/bosses have a defense skill of 315?

id assume yes because they are all 3 levels higher? well not trash but the raid bosses

[hushed laurel]

lvl 63 mobs do

its 5x their level

[bleak hill]

gotcha ok

[hushed laurel]

raid bosses are all 63

[bleak hill]

ahhh ok that makes alot of senses

sense*

hmmmm, if 5 is the magic number, and u get 5 from Sword spec, why do so many rogues want to use unforgiving mask, satyr bow, and 2 Tarnished rings??? thats 3% extra hit that could be going into say crit % on a Painweaver band or +22 AP from say a Riphook on bow slot or something? wouldnt they be wasting stats there?

[plucky nymph]

Because Hit still holds value after the soft cap.

Also you can't dodge all of it.

Truestrike still has AP on it

[hushed laurel]

extra hit isnt wasted, it only caps your yellows. you wont ever hit cap in vanilla for white hits

[plucky nymph]

TER still has AGI on it.

etc.

[hushed laurel]

also, yah, the gear has other stats

[harsh finch]

How much was the white cap for dw like 30%?

[hushed laurel]

27 or 29 iirc

[plucky nymph]

It's like 25%+.

[bleak hill]

yeah but satyr has like +3 agi or something....is +3agi and a Hit % over the soft cap, = to more than 22 AP? how do u know the fine line?

[hushed laurel]

25? man i suck

[harsh finch]

There should be spreadsheets to calc how much its wortg

[plucky nymph]

"25%"

There are "dynamic" weights on the Bloodmoon sheet but at the end of the day I've gotten mishappen math from the sheet and hit after soft cap ends up being around the same amount of crit.

With Crit being worth more, but not dramatically more.

eg;

Hit is still very near Crit, that's with...

6% hit from gear, 5% from precision, 3% from DEF/WS delta.

With 10% hit FROM GEAR ALONE, full Tier 3+weapons/etc.

_>

[hushed laurel]

man, im glad all i have ot look at is getting 5 weapon skill and uhhhhh... 315 FR i guess

[plucky nymph]

Thankfully Rogue is literally the most straight-forward DPS to gear.

our Tier is very good, there are some bad pieces but the bonuses usually make up for it.

THE PROBLEM, is that we're the only other motherfucker on the Tier3 token with Warriors >_>

[bleak hill]

So the more Hit % i go over the soft cap, the more i need to hit crit cap right? so it is better to stack crit after the soft cap cuz u need less crit for the cap, is tht accurate?

jesus, this is some mathmatical bullllllzzznitch, im too much of a friggen stoner for all this xD

[plucky nymph]

At the moment you just don't have many options in term of gearing, you really just need to make sure you are in your best gear without being over the Crit Cap with World Buffs if you ever have them.

Just make sure your Crit is never more than 30% + TotalHit% and you will be fine.

[bleak hill]

why do u not want ur crit % to be high?

[plucky nymph]

You don't want it OVER the cap because you lose your chance to get a Crit on those attack rolls due to there not being "space" on the table for the attack to crit.

[bleak hill]

Im at 20.65% chance to crit + 8% hit atm

so i want to keep those 2 numbers under 30%?

is that wat ur saying?

[plucky nymph]

No I said 30 plus your total hit chance.

Is your Crit Cap.

[bleak hill]

ohhhh

so my total crit cap is around 38ish?

[plucky nymph]

That's not 100% literal, but it's more than you'd need by a small amount.

[bleak hill]

so not go over 38 on my crit %

[plucky nymph]

Yar.

[bleak hill]

Gottttcha

[plucky nymph]

ezpz

[bleak hill]

ok ok ok im geetttttin somewhere xD

so is it smart to keep pushing my hit until im around that threshold and then just start adding crit and anything else but hit?

[plucky nymph]

The further we go into the game the less and less having to worry about that is going to matter as stats inflate to a point where you are going to have to take that hit whether you want it or not.

You can use the Shadow Panther website as a stat guideline for what is good, just remember that it only looks at raw stats (AEP is with Stamina, MAEP is without Stamina) and therefore doesn't include set bonuses.

[surreal cosmos]

I just got Onyxia tooth pendant but I'm already hit capped. Is mark of fordring better if I'm hit capped?

[plucky nymph]

No.

[fresh vessel]

Anyone able to confirm if spell hit reduces the chance for pick pocked to be resisted?

google is sketchy on the answer

[plucky nymph]

You've a base miss chance, it's gonna happen.

[shadow tapir]

Feral getting CHT over rogue, thoughts?

[plucky nymph]

It'll drop again >_>

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shadow tapir]

Well yeah, just curious if tahts normal

[drowsy phoenix]

well I dont like the sound of it

[plucky nymph]

Farm more MCPs you fuckers.

[drowsy phoenix]

ferals dont have dagger-specific abilities

[hushed laurel]

its a good feral tank piece iirc, dunno what else they have. over a dagger rogue seems iffy but 🤷

[shadow tapir]

I get its their "bis"

Hes feral DPS

Its just a stat stick tho

[hushed laurel]

does he bring enough MCPs to raid?

[shadow tapir]

He doesnt bring any

[hushed laurel]

if the answer is yes, seems ok, if no, waste

waste of space

[plucky nymph]

CHT also good for dagger tanking.

[hushed laurel]

yerp, going to a warrior tank with a dagger is fine if they need it, going to a feral dps who doesnt bring raid consumables is a waste

[glass timber]

so

my guilds mc run we got both 2 tf bindings and a eye of rag

mageblade/perd dagger

fat loot run

[plucky nymph]

nice

[shadow tapir]

Turns out people had issues with how the Mageblade and CHT were handled haha

Drama inc

[graceful skiff]

Yo, should you use Dense Sharpening Stones over poison while leveling? or at all?

[shadow tapir]

Maybe if what youre fighting is immune to poison, otherwise not really

[graceful skiff]

Got cha, was wondering if you used those if it was more dmg at level 35 or so

[shadow tapir]

Well tbh I dont think Ive ever seen math or tests to show it

Could probably do some napkin math but I highly doubt it beats poisons

[signal ember]

did I opps myself when I won then pass on the T2 helm?

Currently have unforgiven mask atm and going T2 would make me lose my hit 2% which would make me at 8%

I mean I didn't really need it that much anyway, I'm already doing good damage as combat daggers.

[quaint barn]

@signal ember You probably want the BF hood, due to high item level it has a huge agi/stre/crit with it.

[glass timber]

^

[quaint barn]

Since we get 305 dagger skill from talents, you really only need 6% hit total, meaning 1% from gear. (this is for specials only)

This is easily covered: Elven Rings, Satyrs Bow, Onyxia neck, Truestrike/Devilsaur, Nightslayer Gloves/Shoulder etc

Idk what crit levels people are at in full Tier1/2 now, but blessing of kings, feral druid aura and world buffs (Ony head+Songflower) migh make more hit attractive

[versed cedar]

there is no problem at all for a rogue to get yellow hit cap, one single item with hit is enough, as Dank said

if mask is you only hit item, keep it. but i gues you got another item with hit on another slot

[signal ember]

I got devilsaur set and Mara ring. I'm gunning to get the mugger belt in North dire mail.

[sterile crane]

Hey guys! Yesterday I was able to snatch the "brutality blade" in molten core, but I don't really know how to find out where to put it - mainhand or offhand

I am currently running Krol-Blade as my mainhand, does that automatically make brutality blade the more viable offhand?

[shadow tapir]

Yes, mirahs song in OH is probably the play too

[maiden cave]

@sterile crane brut blade + mirah

anything else is stupid

[shadow tapir]

Do ROIDS and scorpok assay stack

Assume yes but ROIDs doesnt stack with Juju Power?

[maiden cave]

@shadow tapir the 25stat buffs from BL stack with jujus and shit, but I'm fairly certain they don't stack with each other (they share a 1h CD, but even if you wait out the 1h CD while logged off I don't think they stack with each other despite giving different effects)

you could test it, but I only use the agi one tbh

[shadow tapir]

Yeah they overwrite each other, was just under the impression that two buffs giving same exact stat dont stack

Will just focus on agi one since they overwrite anyway

[maiden cave]

the BL buffs are unique

normally they wouldn't stack, but BL is speshul

[shadow tapir]

ah ok

[hushed laurel]

Yerp, those buffs are the big dumb

[glass timber]

I have 6 arcanite bars out of 100

😢

[marble dune]

what do you need 100 for

[hushed laurel]

Tfury I assume

[glass timber]

Yeah tf and it feels like it will never be finished 🤣

[hushed laurel]

It's a guild effort item. If you're doing it solo you're doing it wrong

[plucky nymph]

ye

[shadow tapir]

Unless you’re the rogue that ninjad it yesterday on Sulfuras

Then good luck

[hushed laurel]

There's a rogue on Pagle who did a "guild run, bindings reserved". He was the only member of his guild in the run.

Now he has 1 binding, and is trying to get the 2nd

[plucky nymph]

lol

I think if I am the third person getting TF I will end up paying like... 10% of the cost?

Something like that.

and I can pay for 30% of it now so, that's nice.

[hushed laurel]

Its 100 arcanite, 30 fiery cores and elementium which is basically a rare core. About 6-7k on my server

Thankfully the fierys are "free"

[plucky nymph]

Ye.

I think there's only one other Rogue in the guild that isn't daggers that has priority over me.

and I wonder if he will stay swords >_>

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hushed laurel]

I mean, you should give 4 tanks TF first, but whatever works.

Gotta plan ahead

I think our plan is 3 TFs to ranks first, but I doubt we will ever see bindings drop

[plucky nymph]

We're doing 2 to tanks.

But we're also Horde so things are a little different in that respect.

[hushed laurel]

Same here. But none of our tanks are orcs

Does mean TF isn't as good on warriors though

Since they can slamjamwindfurymam people

[plucky nymph]

Yeep.

[sharp grotto]

!streamer

oops lol

[plucky nymph]

SHITS TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKED

[shadow tapir]

ours were at 6g

but someone bought em out and went up to 14g

[plucky nymph]

lol

[sharp grotto]

hows was damn 4g last week

[plucky nymph]

hawt

small investment capitol

[hushed laurel]

god im so poor

[marble dune]

https://imgur.com/a/wpCIFgZ

can i flex my bank too?? 😄

[plucky nymph]

:3

[marble dune]

https://imgur.com/a/B7YYUGn

ideally id spend this down to 300-400g

keep buying cheap mats that will go up once layering is gone

[plucky nymph]

Ye

[marble dune]

anyone know the respawn time for songflower buff?

[loud tree]

I was trying to time whipper root one day and it seemed like 20minutes, so maybe the same as that. not 100% though

[marble dune]

nvm i got my songflower 😄

[loud tree]

yay

[plucky nymph]

I've the health of a level 55 mage.

[maiden cave]

@loud tree its exactly 25 minutes on whippers btw

like to the second from when you last picked it

[loud tree]

Hanbi the GOAT

thanks! good to know

[sly valve]

So I'm sitting at 310 dagger skill right now (talent + MC gloves), should I bother farming for Distracting Dagger (gives +6 dagger skill) in DM West, or should I just stay with Bonescraper as my OH?

[shadow tapir]

Weapon skill is pretty useless after 308

[earnest cipher]

How much +skill = 1% hit rating?

[shadow tapir]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/494574420854308884/640681995470503936/unknown.png

Kind of depends on your previous weapon skill

Technically .1% but it’s complicated lol

[hushed laurel]

Aka only 5 and 15 matter, and 15 ain't what you want

[wraith parcel]

For hit chance yes, but glancing is slightly different

[hushed laurel]

8 matters for glancing damage, yerp

7 and 8 are very similar as well, but that doesn't matter in this case

[earnest cipher]

So why are the edge master handguards so good then

[shadow tapir]

The number on the left of that chart is the difference between your weapon skill and the boss’ defense skill (315)

Because of how the math is implemented 305 gives 3% hit basically

After that hit is minimal but glancing blow damage reduction is reduced up to 308 skill

Edge masters are good for non humans or orcs because of the skill

[sly valve]

So there are diminishing returns beyond 308

Though I guess if I had the dagger I could move those talent points elsewhere

[shadow tapir]

There’s no DR, it’s just the first 5 skill is weird

There’s a penalty for hit when your skill is more than 10 under the boss’ defense

[earnest cipher]

It's like not being defense cap vs a boss

You still have some defense rating but not capped so you still get crushing blows

[shadow tapir]

Yeah pretty much

[earnest cipher]

This question might be kinda arbitrary or opinionated but what's better going into/through bwl

Swords or daggers

In bis gear

Not assuming you have r13 gear

[wraith parcel]

Nobody should ever be defense capped

Its a waste of stats

[signal ember]

Crafted my own Stormshroud armor, was sick of using green chest with 23 agi on it.

so i should be 26% crit after this ubrs run.

[hushed laurel]

you should basically never be crushed anyway, shieldblock pushes it off the table, and most bosses dont hit you 3 times in its CD

and those that do dont kill you with 1 crush

[echo wraith]

when do you replace 6 piece shadowcraft?

[plucky nymph]

5pT1 is close enough.

Any T2 pieces accelerate that.

[raven snow]

Quick question guys i cant figure out why my instant poison is falling off shortly after me applying it.

[shadow tapir]

How shortly

It has charges so if you run through them it goes away but thats not immediate of course

[raven snow]

ahhhh

so after a certain amount of swings it falls off

[wraith parcel]

And if you jump too far you land on a rock in the lava

[plucky nymph]

Well that's the point of the backjump :3

Can do it like this as well though.

[wraith parcel]

Ye ik, but some people in my raid a couple weeks back didnt get it

You can also put follow on sombody else that is doing it, or so ive heard

[plucky nymph]

Dunno if being a fatty will cause a splatter though.

The second one is really close.

[loud tree]

damn, forgot about that jump! sosick

[plucky nymph]

👏 👏 👏

[sharp grotto]

streaming again if yall wanted to watch some shit MC 😛

[plucky nymph]

trash farming so no

[sharp grotto]

who is

[plucky nymph]

I am, weird question.

[sharp grotto]

lol hadnt seen any trash farms on our server

[plucky nymph]

Guild farm, people tend to not trash farm that's true.

[plucky nymph]

Arcanist Bindings dropped O_O $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[loud tree]

big monies

all those rich mages

[sharp grotto]

lol we just had BOTH bindings drop in 1 run

like wtf

is this the perd night?

[loud tree]

guaranteed now

[sharp grotto]

haha

[plucky nymph]

Arcanist Bindings x1
Nightslayer Belt x2

O _O 💦

[loud tree]

j00cy

[plucky nymph]

15 member raid

ez money

I don't think I have ever seen someone selling an NS Belt, will see.

[plucky nymph]

NS Belt gone for 800 $_$

[hushed laurel]

Gratz. That's some cash

[plucky nymph]

Not done yet >_>

[onyx stag]

hit cap vs 1% less hit and a HOJ

anyone?

[plucky nymph]

cap

[cedar jewel]

What do you mean @onyx stag ?

[sour saddle]

Hey guys quick question, does every person have to be honored with Hydraxian Waterlords to fight Rag? Or does only one person need the item to summon him?

[shadow tapir]

You need to douse all 7 runes to summon Majordomo then kill his adds so he can summon Rag

[sour saddle]

Ohh okay so I don’t necessarily have to be homered with zhydraxian to fight rag, right?

[cedar jewel]

It can be only 1 person, but that one person has to go to azshara and mc 7 times to get the rune

[shadow tapir]

No you dont need any rep to fight him

[sour saddle]

Okay I see

[shadow tapir]

More people with douses the easier it is

[cedar jewel]

Ideally you want 7 people with the quintessence

[sour saddle]

I was totally confused about that. Thanks for clearing that up

[plucky nymph]

150g from that 45min in MC earlier, ha.

[shadow tapir]

about to drop that much to relevel engineering

yay

[plucky nymph]

w o o

[onyx stag]

@cedar jewel I meant, if I am 9% hit, which is cap, and I get a HOJ which drops Rune of the GC, which drops 1% hit, is it a gain or a loss.

[versed cedar]

if skilled combat swords and got weaponskill talent to 305 you need 6% hit rating. You gain another 5% from talents, so you need 1% from gear to get to get the yellow hit cap. @onyx stag

As yellow hit cap is you most important thing to get, you should not go below that.

If the Rune trinket is your only hit item -> keep it. If not feel free to swap out

[cedar jewel]

You can easily get the dme bow and tarnished elven ring or blackstone ring to cover the hit% to be hit capped

What’s your other trinket? I’m sure it’s better to use hoj and rune as trinkets if rune is your only +1% hit

[versed cedar]

for most people other trinket should be blackhands breadth

but there is nothing worse then failing a 5 cp eviscerate 😉

[stable wave]

so ive got a question - when the time comes and i reach 55 is there any LW who would mind crafting devilsaur set for me (my mats) - on golemagg eu

[onyx stag]

I thought blizz confirmed hit was 9%

Oh ic, just re-read that

[hazy dune]

@plucky nymph your guild still have the other NS belt?

[signal ember]

2% crit or 24agi/5 str ror chest piece?

I do like having higher BS damage for cost of barely 1% crit difference

its's about 1.3% crit difference or 29ap

plus 24 agi

[signal ember]

Well, I went with the ap, swapped the unforgiven with rend eye and equipped truestrike shoulders, so same amount hit but more ap/crit

[signal ember]

Good way to bait classic players are calling them fucking boomers who can't adapt to superior retail gameplay. Always bring out riot in chat.

[vocal hornet]

1 4 1 1 1 1 5

Whew. that combat life

[plucky nymph]

@hazy dune No both sold.

[hazy dune]

gotcha

[heady flame]

Got Gutgore Ripper last night. My other dagger is Keris of Zul'serak, so nothing fancy. I was going to go Gutgore MH and already threw Crusader on it but I'm now reading +Weapon skill is better on MH. Should i have Gutgore OH and the lesser Dagger with +weapon skill in my main hand or just keep Gutgore MH?

[plucky nymph]

You meant + Weapon Damage, but yeah.

as Daggers;

Mainhand - Superior Striking
Offhand - Crusader (+15 Agility later on)

[heady flame]

Yeah, meant +Weapon Damage. Which dagger would you recommend for which hand given I already put crusader on Gutgore?

[plucky nymph]

Gutgore is dramatically better than Keris for your Mainhand, keep things as you have them though, as your end-goal is Perditions Blade and the Crusader on Gutgore isn't the end of the world.

[heady flame]

Awesome, thanks for the help 🙂

[plucky nymph]

Those are both Offhands and Dal'rends OH is useless without the MH.

[upbeat mango]

sorry I was too specific.

General question is Dagger MH, sword OH a thing for rogues?

I've seen dagger/dagger sword/dagger and Sword/Sword

just not sure if i've ever seen Dagger/Sword

[plucky nymph]

Sword / Dagger can work if the dagger is very good and you do not have another option.

[upbeat mango]

thanks

[echo wraith]

is there a value for how much AP=1% crit in stat weight?

[ancient phoenix]

Last I read it was 20ap

[halcyon wadi]

can rogue skip MC?

[plucky nymph]

Excuse me?

[halcyon wadi]

I mean, I remember molten core as super boring, can I gear up for BWL without ever stepping inside molten core?

I assume they will release .5 tier gear

[plucky nymph]

What weapons are you using? o _O

[halcyon wadi]

I am not even 60 yet

[plucky nymph]

.5 sets are in Phase 5, so unless you are hitting 60 then and not within the next year, do MC.

[halcyon wadi]

oh lol

[plucky nymph]

O_O

[loud tree]

grats casters

[plucky nymph]

Gotcha... actually Onslaught Girdle :3

[loud tree]

loot gods

[plucky nymph]

But the neck thou, hawt.

[hushed laurel]

post a pic of onslaught and accuria at the same time

[plucky nymph]

Next week

[plucky nymph]

noice

[loud tree]

[plucky nymph]

fuck

[signal ember]

I mean you can do BWL without T1 at least. Weapons are still solid to get and T2 off Rag/Ony.

[plucky nymph]

Yeah but I ain't given no one that didn't smash their dick into MC a CTS first >_>

[signal ember]

Is the fang of the faceless par with MC or BWL?

[plucky nymph]

That's kinda late, but Perds is better.

Which is basically tied with Dragonfang for MH.

[old stone]

we got 1st perds yesterday, also like 6 rogue tier, which is pretty much the combined amount of t1 that weve had for the last 7 clears

[plucky nymph]

nice

[rare loom]

Hey guys, i was wondering if some1 actually did theorycrafting about Combat Dagger talents, specifically if taking Ruthlessness + Relentless Strikes is actually better than taking Murder + 5/5 Lethality... since you're not generating that much combo points as sword spec.. or is there a point when any variation gonna be better than the other, like in 2min fight that is better and in 2+min fight this is better tec.

ect*

[plucky nymph]

They're probably close, you really just need to have 5/5 OPP., Murder isn't GREAT because not everything you fight will give you the bonus.

[rare loom]

taking opp 5/5 is a must, there is no question about that, but Murder is just actually missing elementals (from the raiding point of view)... but since you're not generating that many combo points i don't see whats the timeline when Relentless + Ruthlessness can actually take over... it will even depend on the crit chance i guess

[versed cedar]

is hemo debuff for all physical attacks to a target or only for my own ?

[rare loom]

For every1, but that debuff is pretty weak and since you have only 16 debuff slots it's not great.

[versed cedar]

hm...

dont wanna respec for pvp and pve :/

i guess i need a second rogue

but damn i need t1

no luck so far, just got ony head yesterday, but need to wait 3 weeks to turn it in :/

[winged crystal]

i'm think i'm going to work on getting distracting dagger to go with shadowfoot stabber and do a dagger pvp spec. at least then i won't get yelled at for hemo debuff if I ever raid

[signal ember]

Just get scraper instead. Mugger belt is better in belt slot than anything else.

For daggers that is.

That's literally the only thing I need at this point, or I could get the aged gloves in MC and wear my unforgiving mask and still have my 9% hit.

Only if I could be this excited to get loot in retail. F to Titanforge. (FUCK)

[winged crystal]

you say "just get" like that means i can walk in there and get it 🤣 but I know what you mean

[hidden moon]

someone that is positive on how + weapon skill works,even specifically for daggers. My gm says that i dont need the aged gloves and the weapon skill from talents is enough by itself, everything else is diminishing returns. Is that correct?

[cedar jewel]

You need to reach 308 weapon skill to reduce the glancing penalty, you can’t do that with just the +5 skill from the talent

You need at least one item with +daggers

Aged core leather gloves > distracting dagger > muggers belt

[hushed laurel]

5 weapon skill is enough for the hit bonus, which is what your gm is probably referring too

[shadow tapir]

You can also just drop a point in the talent, so not really a good argument

Unless he’s trying to give it to another class I suppose

[sly valve]

He probably wants to give it to a warrior

[cobalt summit]

Currently 21/8/22. MH is gutgore ripper, for OH could I just use mirahs song till i get another good dagger? I dont have any really benefit to daggers since I dont have the crit talent. Have no good daggers rn

Using aged core gloves and already at 6% hit as well so I guess to make sure I dont miss should use two daggers. Not sure how OH sword works with yellow hits on miss.

[cedar jewel]

It shouldn’t matter since you won’t be raiding with that spec

[shadow tapir]

OH doesnt attribute to yellow attacks so doesnt really matter

[teal jetty]

So I was looking at some guides and i saw that you want +5 strike on
perdition's blade. Why wouldn’t you take crusader instead.

[cedar jewel]

It’s a more reliable damage increase

[shadow tapir]

It does more damage

[teal jetty]

Also, could I do enough dps in dagger spec with dagger PRE-BiS?

[shadow tapir]

Guess that depends on you and your raid. Is it enough to clear MC/Ony? Absolutely.

[teal jetty]

Ty

[copper belfry]

I need help with a macros #showtooltip gnomish net-o-matic projector equipslot 13 Gnomish Net-o-matic

it always wants to push it to slot 14 if somethings already been used prior

[shadow tapir]

I would suggest just getting the add on TrinketSwap

So much easier than macroing everything especially when youre an engineer.

[copper belfry]

where did you get trinketswap from

[shadow tapir]

Cant remember if it was on twitch or not

[copper belfry]

is it called trinketmenu

[shadow tapir]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/trinket-menu/screenshots

Yeah sorry, wrong name

[copper belfry]

If you had both rend weapons and got brute blade would you make BB your MH or OH

[signal ember]

I'd just switch to mirah song for OH in that case

assuming you didn't toss it away which you shouldn't lol

BB MH, MS OH.

[copper belfry]

why wouldnt boosting your OH overall for white hits matter more than losing the 15 from BB to dal MH

[signal ember]

You ideally want fast offhand for IP applications

[copper belfry]

but does IP really matter in MC

[shadow tapir]

Brut blade is higher weapon damage, you want that MH. Theres no arguing against that.

Rend OH is just bad

And yeah, IP still works on some bosses. And if not you can use stones too

Boosting MH over OH is more important because it affects SS damage. OH is minor in comparison.

[signal ember]

There are some bosses that you can use poisons on

[trail jasper]

What do you guys do vs a warlock with a succubus because he knows you're there? I'm having a hard time coming up with anything... The damn thing is invisible and open on the warlock and it's Seduction > Eternal fear while you die of age...

So I'm curious if it's just a case of nothing to do or if any of you guys have got a smart trick of some sort to deal with it

[shadow tapir]

I heard of a rogue using Skull of Impending Doom ot break it

Idk if they cna just reapply or not

[trail jasper]

Ahh I see... Yeah that might work actually.. Worth a try nonetheless

[fair carbon]

Blind the Succ

Once it pops out

Granted I’m undead so I can break charms

[drowsy phoenix]

rank 2 trinky might do the trick

[royal topaz]

yo dudes, I am combat dagger spec and I have Barman Shanker, Bonescraper and Shadowfoot Stabber. knowing that barman is bad for raids and pvp, is the damage advantage is has over the shadowfoot dagger worth 1 bag space?

[shadow tapir]

Its not bad for raid at all

pvp thats up to you though

[plucky nymph]

Just use Barman+Scraper until you get raid daggers.

[plucky nymph]

Now I might be slightly wealthy, but I at least don't burn money like this motherfucker - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/572268960699908107/642596949089976320/unknown.png

[exotic trellis]

he's ready to dunk people in pvp

[plucky nymph]

and then get dunked on by the dood in Might with a real weapon O _O