classic-discussion

[marble dune]

double vanish ambush doesnt actually do that much damage

[civic crest]

not going to stop me from trying tho

[marble dune]

theres like a .5-1 sec delay between vanish and ambush

in which you may lose auto swings

[civic crest]

vanish is on the gbc?

hm

[marble dune]

its not

[civic crest]

what if I time it on the swings?

[marble dune]

but you cant cast both within the gcd

[civic crest]

weapon is like 1.8 and 1.3 I guess like 1.4ish with snd up

[marble dune]

even if you macro it, it takes 2 clicks and there is a slight delay

[civic crest]

if that's the make or break point

[marble dune]

you should be pve specced if you just dinged 60 tbh

you have alot of dungeon grinding ahead of you

[civic crest]

I am

but I really feel like the whole pvp spec is working comapred to everyone I run into in dungeons

tbf I dont run with rogues obviously, but it doesnt seem all that bad rn

You're probably right and I'll probably get my ass handed to myself tonight

[marble dune]

dude dungeon especially is where you need BF/AR

you have no aoe without it

literally a liability to your group

idk if you are in a guild or pugging the mc

[civic crest]

Like for real?

Im in mc with a guild tonight

[marble dune]

but if i was a gm of a guild and i see a rogue grey parsing because he's pvp specced, im less inclined to invite him again to the next raid

[civic crest]

shit I've not noticed a single gap between me and the rest of my party

alright fair enough

[marble dune]

especially if its your first raid

you want to make a good impression

[shadow tapir]

It’s MC who cares

[marble dune]

having low dps also makes you lower priority on loot

[shadow tapir]

Some of the fights have you stop dps anyway

I go in pvp spec and it’s fine

Dungeons will suffer though

[marble dune]

yea but when combat rogues are #1-6 on meters and pvp spec rogue is #20

you look will like shit

[shadow tapir]

Who cares about meters??

Wtf

[marble dune]

plenty of ppl

why you think the community spend hours min-maxing gear

FOR THE METERS

[shadow tapir]

No, to kill bosses

Meters are nice to top

When fights make you stop dps and Aggro is the most important mechanic dps falls short on importance

It’s awesome to top dps but if you’re on a pvp server no one is going to hate you for being pvp spec

[marble dune]

theres only 2 fights in mc where i had to stop dps

well, just rag and ony

so thats 2/11

the other 9/11 i yolo dps

[shadow tapir]

Majordomo?

[marble dune]

nope

stack them up bladefurry yolo

[shadow tapir]

Point is, most people aren’t going to care that much

You need to realize most people don’t have a min max super setup raid group that pushes this stuff extremely hard

[marble dune]

assuming "most" means "the average player"

then yes i agree, the average player dont care, and is shit

never be average

[shadow tapir]

It’s not your job to tell people what they should be

I prefer world pvp to raid

But I do fine in raids

So I’m pvp spec

[marble dune]

its not your job to tell ppl to be complacent

[shadow tapir]

Clear stuff just fine

I’m not

[marble dune]

if youre okay being average, then thats you

[shadow tapir]

You would suck ass in pvp

So what’s average

[marble dune]

im pve specced for 1 day out of the week

pvp for the other 6

so no, i dont suck in pvp

[shadow tapir]

Mhm sure

You always do this lol

You assume people are chasing the same thing as you and can’t see their view point

[marble dune]

youre right, i cant understand those that chose to remain average

[shadow tapir]

If the only important thing was topping meters no one would bring anything but 3 classes and some support

Then stop trying to push your narrow view on others

And if you have time to farm enough gold to respec twice a week good for you, most people don’t

[marble dune]

im too much of an elitist to have this convo with you

[shadow tapir]

Lol glad you realized

[marble dune]

i have this mentality with everything in life

top percentile or nothing

being average will never fly with me

[shadow tapir]

Yes I’m sure you’re amazing in everything you do

[marble dune]

im not, but i try to be

[shadow tapir]

Well that’s not good enough

Trying your best with what you have isn’t ok

You gotta be best

This is your logic

[marble dune]

still better than zero effort and being complacant

[shadow tapir]

And its shit

You’re assuming he has zero effort

Or people who are average don’t try

[marble dune]

he dinged 60 and is pvp specced and expects to go into mc and do "ok"

thats literally zero effort

because hes done zero dungeon grinding

[shadow tapir]

That “literally” has no bearing on effort

You don’t know that

He said two days ago

[marble dune]

and will hinder himself being pvp specced while grinding for pre raid gear

[shadow tapir]

He said he has consumables

Assumptions abound in your argument

[marble dune]

LOL consumables

so does everybody else in the raid

??

[shadow tapir]

Assumptions again

Dude

[marble dune]

its common sense for ppl to have consumables to bring to a raid

[shadow tapir]

Incorrect

[marble dune]

then youre shit

tbh

[shadow tapir]

Have done quite a few where we go in and jus kill

Lol

[marble dune]

if your raid dont even have pots

jesus

[shadow tapir]

It’s Mc

Who gives a flying fuck

It’s baby shit

You’re just proving my point.

[marble dune]

idk what kind of shit runs youve used to

everybody in my raid has consumables at bare minimum

pure laziness if you dont

[shadow tapir]

So I assume you have jujus, blasted lands consumables, pots and elixirs

All world buffs

[marble dune]

pots elixirs juju yes

no world buffs and blasted lands

[shadow tapir]

Oh

[marble dune]

literally cost 3-4g

[shadow tapir]

So who decides

The line between acceptable consumables and not

You?

[marble dune]

each player should always bring at bare minimum elixirs and pots

its literally 5g

[shadow tapir]

Who’s decision

Well first it’s more than that on some servers

So again, stupid assumptions from you

How many hours a day do you play

[marble dune]

are you saying you dont bring pots to a raid?

and dont have to?

[shadow tapir]

Yes

I am

[marble dune]

and its a "stupid assumption" to bring consumables?

[shadow tapir]

I didn’t say it was an assumption to bring consumables

Stick with the convo

I said your assumption of price is stupid

[marble dune]

is it a stupid assumption that i think everybody should have pots to a raid?

[shadow tapir]

That’s not an assumption

That’s your opinion

[marble dune]

so do you think im stupid because i have an opinion that everybody should bring pots to a raid?

y/n

[shadow tapir]

I never called you stupid no

You can think what you want

[marble dune]

dodging questions now

[shadow tapir]

I think it’s stupid to expect every player to do what you do

[marble dune]

Do you think everybody should have pots to a raid

yes or no

[shadow tapir]

In Mc no

[marble dune]

oof

[shadow tapir]

Unless the whole raids goal is to min max

You say oof

Yet

A majority of raids I’ve been in did not require it

So we go back to your min max theory

[marble dune]

ooooof

[shadow tapir]

Which is fine to do, but assuming everyone needs to is

[marble dune]

ooooooooooooof

[shadow tapir]

Yes, saying oof as an argument point

[marble dune]

oooooooooooooooof

[shadow tapir]

Glad you’ve admitted your immaturity

[marble dune]

oooooooooooooooooof

[fallen panther]

[marble dune]

sry i dont speak to grey parsers who dont bring pots to a damn raid

holy fuck

my elitist mind cannot comprehend rn

[shadow tapir]

Rofl

And the personal attack to solidify a lost argument

Ty ty I’ll be here all week

[marble dune]

i dont even know what argument i supposedly lost

youre literally advocating that ppl shouldnt bring consumables to a raid

im just like ????

[shadow tapir]

@civic crest Point is your damage will hurt with pvp spec. If you want to make an impression you should go a raid spec and this will help with dungeon grinding also.

I didn’t advocate that

Your reading comprehension is lacking, I think I’m done talking to you

[marble dune]

idk its pretty plainly written here

and that im stupid to assume everybody should have pots to a raid

i guess thats the argument i lost?

oooooooooooooof

[shadow tapir]

So you read that

As me advocating for people to not bring pots to raid

[marble dune]

its clear as day dude

[civic crest]

I think I might just respec

what is the max respec cost?

50g?

[shadow tapir]

First, never called you stupid. You went on personal attack not me. Second, your assumption that everyone brings pots to raid was what was stupid. Third, advocating for something and having an opinion on something are very different. I addressed this in a following post that you conveniently left out.

[civic crest]

Calm down guys

[shadow tapir]

Point is, you’re an elitist and that’s fine. Thinking everyone needs to follow your arbitrary rules of damage meters on easy content is silly considering the content is done with less than 60s and no consumables on the regular.

All there is to it, you can disagree and that’s fine.

[marble dune]

so moral of the story
If you want to min-max and do top dmg etc, listen to my advice
if you don't care about damage and do sub-par dps, listen to Tawney

gotcha

[shadow tapir]

Lol

Sure in an elementary and childish level of understanding go with that

[plucky nymph]

[winged crystal]

less elitism and more min maxing

[sharp grotto]

I personally don’t think MC needs consumes at all... sorry late to that topic lol

[shadow tapir]

Very few people do

[sharp grotto]

Tanks and heals mana pots

[winged crystal]

i think it comes down to a need/want. the raid doesn't need it, but people in the leadership of raids may want it

[sharp grotto]

That’s about it

[shadow tapir]

Which was ultimately the point. No one person decides that

[marble dune]

your raid leader does

[shadow tapir]

It’s up to the individual/raid to determine

[sharp grotto]

Next week will be first time I’ll take any and I’m top 3 dmg most fights lol

[marble dune]

top 3 in your raid doesnt say much tbh, you have to compare yourself to other players of your class in other raids via warcraftlogs

[sharp grotto]

Well I have 5 rogues in our raid

And if I’m top 3-5 even against mages and all with none

[marble dune]

link the log

[sharp grotto]

And we clear Mc and ony all in 2 hours we aren’t slow

[marble dune]

i could say im #1 in my raid but that wouldnt mean much if my dps is below average across all rogues on the same encounter on wclogs

or if im #20th in my raid but still above 90th percentile across my class, then thats still pretty good

[winged crystal]

I'm just going to say this, no one cares

15 year old content

just enjoy it

[sharp grotto]

Lol yea I mean talking about parses is a different story vs if you need to spend gold and get all the consumes... you don’t need it

Sure to parse highest you need gear and consumes to push you out ahead

[marble dune]

im just saying a comment like "im top 3 dps without consumables" doesnt tell me anything

[winged crystal]

i'm top 3 dps in my raid without consumables says everything I need to know

[shadow tapir]

It does though

[winged crystal]

hes top 3 in his raid without consumables

who isnt' comparing to anything outside of his raid, you are

[shadow tapir]

It tells you he contributes enough to his raid

Doesn’t tell you how his damage is

But that’s irrelevant

[marble dune]

well its possible hes only top 3, because the rest of his raid is performing sub-par

[winged crystal]

and that changes 0 abou what he said

[shadow tapir]

But it doesn’t matter!!!

Why is that so hard to understand lol

[winged crystal]

rofl

[shadow tapir]

They kill bosses

They, probably, have fun

He isn’t holding his raid back

It’s that simple

His point was he didn’t se consumables being necessary to him. He’s too 3 dps without them so obviously in his situations they aren’t needed.

[sharp grotto]

Yea so idk what else to say but you don’t need consumes you do well and clear content

[marble dune]

i guess this pleb mentality is okay with lfr difficulty content

lul

[winged crystal]

wtf haha

[shadow tapir]

You’re just a big PoS honestly

[sharp grotto]

Ummm what? Lol I’ve been a mythic top 100 guild raider since cats

Cata

[shadow tapir]

You jump to personal attacks immediately

[winged crystal]

clear raids in 2 hours without consumables, must be a pleb. logic

[marble dune]

oh i am

[shadow tapir]

Not everyone has tons of time to farm and that’s okay

[marble dune]

talking shit is my fav thing to do

very proud

[shadow tapir]

Yeah you’re a loser

[winged crystal]

oh so we can just ignore him now, got it

[shadow tapir]

Yup

[sharp grotto]

Lol love how people act when their wrong..... oh well time to move on lol

[marble dune]

lol "wrong"

[winged crystal]

imagine their face when I say i'm not even lvl 60 yet

[marble dune]

i honestly hope you guys dont keep that mentality when content actually gets hard

[winged crystal]

[sharp grotto]

Lol classic isn’t and never will be hard

May get rough but won’t be “hard”

[plucky nymph]

When the content gets hard, if it ever does, then the bosses won't die and consumables will be used.

[sharp grotto]

^

[shadow tapir]

And when that happens the context of the argument changes.

Not relevant to prior discussion at all

[winged crystal]

it'd be a shame if you spent all that money you saved now on consumables later when you might need them

[sharp grotto]

Go race to kill mythic KT if you want hard lol.....

[marble dune]

not bringing consumables to multiple raids is an instant gkick from guilds ive been in

[sharp grotto]

Problem with your performance issues...

[marble dune]

consumables are dirt cheap lol idk why youre complaining bout prices

[sharp grotto]

But ones who do shit right won’t get kicked

Then come buy them for me k thanks

[winged crystal]

Almost like guilds have different requirements

[plucky nymph]

Yeah like GETTING TO SIXTY

[marble dune]

@sharp grotto show logs of your 2 hour clear with no consumables and ill shut up

[plucky nymph]

gets his oh wait we use some consumables and world buffs

[marble dune]

logs have time stamps of boss kill times

post them up

[winged crystal]

assuming he even logs

[dusk crystal]

2 hours in 2k19, we did 45 in 2006

ofcourse with good gear but people are better now right

[sharp grotto]

I’ll ask guild and see if they do... 1 sec

[marble dune]

all you have to do is type your guild name in wcl search bar

[sharp grotto]

3 stories up working on painting outside of house lol... just holding a ladder right now so hadn’t looked us up

[winged crystal]

assuming someone is logging

[sharp grotto]

So give a few

[marble dune]

imagine slipping because arguing with a dude on discord

[sharp grotto]

I won’t slip n I’m not arguing

[marble dune]

I assume your raid starts at 9pm since your first luci kill is at 9:30pm, trash etc. So this is more like a 3 hour clear

and lul "no consumables"

oof

why would someone lie on the internet???

[tough pilot]

Consumables aren't needed for most experienced players. but are used to increase the speed in which they clear the raid. Our guild clears in about 1:50 with consumables, etc. Do we need them? No. but who wants to be in there longer than needed.

[shadow tapir]

Yup that’s fine. It was just a disagreement between want and need is all

Some guilds will require everything I’m sure. Others nothing at all.

[marble dune]

@sharp grotto what happened to top 3 dps in a 2-hour clear with no consumables? youre not even top lol

literally #11

[winged crystal]

he said top 3 rogue

and is top 3 rogue in his clear. don't see the confusion

[marble dune]

"top 3-5 against mages"

even if thats the case, why brag about being #3 rogue if youre #11 in the raid?

[winged crystal]

why care so much?

[marble dune]

well he made a claim

[winged crystal]

and?

[marble dune]

so back it up

[winged crystal]

so?

[marble dune]

he made 3 statements that all turned out to be lies

[winged crystal]

and?

[marble dune]

1. 2 hour clear, nope

[dusk crystal]

imagine caring what people say

[winged crystal]

this is the internet afterall

[marble dune]

2. NO CONSUMABLES - nope

3. IM TOP 3 DPS- nope

[winged crystal]

you're an amazing detective. can you find the lost city of atlantis?

[hushed laurel]

[shadow tapir]

His argument doesn’t hinge on the fact that he’s top 3. I looked at his log and he doesn’t have consumable except for rag

[marble dune]

already found it

pay me to give you coords

[winged crystal]

now stay there

[shadow tapir]

Top dps is not the same as parses

[signal ember]

Arguing about pharses/top dps in MC

[winged crystal]

pretty much haha

[shut dagger]

So I've seen alot of rogues pulling sharpening stones in thier offhands. Im Currently on about 1800 AP, 33% crit, 14% hit and using viskag as a mainhand. Maybe I would benefit more with a sharpening stone than instant poison in offhand due to my MH wep. Thoughts?

[marble dune]

im having a good chuckle at work tbh

thanks yall for the entertainment

[shadow tapir]

Why aren’t you min maxing your work time? Not being the best employee you could be.

[hushed laurel]

Imagine arguing about non warrior dps

[marble dune]

this comment is the best tbh

[wooden nimbus]

quick question regarding hit and skill. Does an extra 5 skill rating translate to about 3% hit against a 63 boss or am I reading into it incorrectly?

[marble dune]

@sharp grotto Excited to hear his response from how he went from

"I'm top 3-5 dps in the raid with no consumables and we clear in 2 hours"
to
"I'm actually #11th dps in the raid with some consumables and we clear in 3 hours"

[winged crystal]

there's a bit more to it than that nightwinds

[wooden nimbus]

Yea critical hit chance and dodge right?

Im just curious about the straight up hit% requirements for raiding as a sword rogue. Is the 9% literal or should I aim for more even with 305 skill?

[winged crystal]

are you human or other?

[wooden nimbus]

im UD

[winged crystal]

you want 2/2 weapon expertise and 1% hit from gear (assuming 5/5 precision) to get to the yellow cap

than it's between more hit for white cap and crit/AP

[wooden nimbus]

The other rogue in my guild is saying I need like 14% hit is why im asking.

but the 9% should get me by just fine and anything else I happen to get isnt detrimental

?

[winged crystal]

hit above the yellow cap will help for white dmg which is a huge part of rogue dps

but sometimes it matter what you are giving up to get there and it could be more gear dependent on your options

[wooden nimbus]

Excellent, thanks for the info!

[sharp grotto]

11th dps In parses in that list right?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hGLAkmc7NgzWBvM3/ this is one, every fight but the like 2-3 shitty pulls I died I was in top 3-5... like I don’t lie lol

[winged crystal]

don't even justify yourself. just let him disappear

[sharp grotto]

Also the only rogue in the raid without a weapon or a single piece of gear lol

It don’t bother me none

[marble dune]

I went thru all 17 of your logged kills

You were #2 once,
#5 twice

and 6-20 the other 14 times

So your claim of "I'm top 3-5 dps" is completely false

and this is without looking at "parses"

[winged crystal]

should have let him disappear. he's got a real chub over you

[sharp grotto]

And yet it still stands, having no consumes Is again not holding anyone back or nothing lol

It’s okay I love when people do this

Except I’m not an elitist asshole like his name shows

[winged crystal]

rofl

[marble dune]

dont trip off your roof now

[sharp grotto]

I’m on ground now and laughing at you so I’m all good

When are you going to prove me having no consumes holding back the guild?

Oh wait I think I had a mongoose for 1 or 2... damn I lied huh

[winged crystal]

🔔 shame

[sharp grotto]

Shame shame shame

[winged crystal]

[shadow tapir]

I’m going to farm spell damage gear and dual wield magic on hit weapons. Thoughts?

Poison build woo

[winged crystal]

can I roll mage tank and lvl run with you?

[shadow tapir]

Sure sounds great

[plucky nymph]

Get a Shadow Oil or something as well.

ezpz Roglock.

[neat sun]

I need to stop letting my damn SnD drop during raids 😦

[sharp grotto]

Let me roll my boomy with you lvling!! I want to raid as boomer LOL

[shadow tapir]

Lol

I saw a paladin trying to get gear for that thought it would be funny

[sharp grotto]

What’s funny is the best Ret pally is a spell dmg one

[winged crystal]

watching quinn is fucking hilarious

because it showcases just how bad ret is

[sharp grotto]

Yup lol!! And McConnell and esfand lol

Feelsbadman

[winged crystal]

"i'm not sure if I'm raiding because the raid leader didn't want to go with my UBRS group. actually he started his own and poached from my group"

[shadow tapir]

I don’t think I’ve seen a ret paladin since Westfall

[sharp grotto]

I’ll say they are annoying right now bc no trinket, but they won’t be to hard after that lol...

To face off out in world

[shadow tapir]

Yeah I don’t have to deal with that thankfully. Just gotta deal with orc resists

[exotic trellis]

Wtf is going on here

[sharp grotto]

Lol a buddy of mine didn’t think orc was that big... we did a practice duel

He resisted 6/8 stuns lol

[exotic trellis]

That’s a fucking grade A meme right there

[sharp grotto]

Lol

[shadow tapir]

Yeah its rough

I had a orc dude that I had fought many times in a sap

Resisted CS and got gouge

I was so mad

Made a CS cancel attack macro right after

[old stone]

Essence of pure flame 100% drop chance

lmao

[sharp grotto]

Lol but I’m glad I went ID really...

[oak haven]

Anyone have thoughts on the accuracy of the Bloodmoon DPS spreadsheet?

[plucky nymph]

Good enough.

[fair carbon]

Begone from this land, heathen.

[daring thunder]

kill him

kill him now

[fair carbon]

Do you see the druid in the bottom right?

[plucky nymph]

I see the one in the bottom LEFT.

Well, the left really.

[fair carbon]

That's just a bear

🎣

[sharp grotto]

Sneaky druid boi

[scenic kiln]

Boys, I just hit 40 playing on a PvP server, wanna do an all around hemo leveling/pvp/dungeon spec. can I do 23 in sub, dip into cb for imp sprint, and finish off with ass?

[slate bluff]

is the hit cap for classic rogues really 6% and not 9%?

[shadow tapir]

305 weapon skill drops hit cap to 6%

Against a level 63 target (boss)

[slate bluff]

ah ty

[sharp grotto]

how do i post my stream?

[naive temple]

@shadow tapir how about 310 weapon skill?

[shadow tapir]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/621367434074652746/634116564953726978/unknown.png

[naive temple]

what does having higher weapon skill do anyways besides hit cap

[shadow tapir]

So the left is the delta between your weapon skill and the boss' defense

Up to 308 weapon skill reduces glancing blow damage

or increases technically

[naive temple]

i might sound like a noob but what is glancing blow lmao

[shadow tapir]

Theres a chance for your white attacks to do 35% less damage

I think its about 40% chance overall, but it has to do with level and weapon/defense skill

[naive temple]

ohh ok

[shadow tapir]

So 308 weapon skill changes that to only a 5% damage reduction

after 308 you only get a little bit of hit% from each weapon skill point and its not really worth it

Also, because of how Blizzard coded it you can see that if the boss's defense is more than 10 of your weapon skill you get a big hit% penalty

So thats why you get so much hit from going to just 305

[naive temple]

ah ok tyty

[shadow tapir]

How is gnomish battle chicken?

I mean Im going to pick it up to kill people with but curious

[plucky yew]

anyone has a good pre bis/bis list (dm included)

is it true you only need 1% hit?

[plucky nymph]

You need 9% total.

But things are weiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiird.

[plucky yew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8tJ1jU-m18&t=450s

[plucky nymph]

Yeah I am not gonna watch a fucking youtube video that is who knows how long that is just gonna repeat me.

[plucky yew]

6% hit

but back to my question: anyone has a good pre bis/bis list (dm included)?

[plucky nymph]

I am sure that there's a youtube video that does.

Check the pins, classic wowhead has lists.

Check the Phase 2 list as one is not made for Phase 1.5 or whatever hellscape we're in.

[spring steeple]

When i'm fighting against undeads (just started doing quests in WP) are there any reason to use poisons? do they interfer with my autoattacks in a positive way, or are they completely useless?

[pallid vigil]

that video is stooopid

[plucky nymph]

I mean I dunno about that.

[pallid vigil]

do you know if its not stoopid?

[plucky nymph]

I don't know either way, that's why I said that I don't know about that.

[pallid vigil]

9% is the hit cap

[plucky nymph]

Special Attack Hit Cap, specifically.

[hushed laurel]

@shadow tapir proc rate isnt great, but it does work now

[pallid vigil]

isnt white dmg important

[plucky nymph]

Yes.

[pallid vigil]

so is it important to hit cap on white dmg

[plucky nymph]

No because that's stupid and not possible.

[pallid vigil]

what is the 9% hit cap based off?

[plucky nymph]

The attack table mathematics.

[pallid vigil]

isn't the extra 3% hit cap specifically to increase white hits

[plucky nymph]

No, every %hit after 9% is going to increase your white attack hit rate.

[pallid vigil]

I mean't between 6% and 9%

isn't the recommended 9% specifically for extra white hits?

[plucky nymph]

No.

[pallid vigil]

is it for super high level mobs then?

[plucky nymph]

Hit% scales linearly, every amount past Special Hit Cap has the same weight until you reach the Crit Cap and Hit becomes very important.

There's no such thing

[pallid vigil]

what is crit cap?

[plucky nymph]

30% + HitChance%

[worldly juniper]

can anyone confirm that 2 x TER is better on the bloodmoon spreadsheet than painweaver or blackstone

[plucky nymph]

It's better.

[pallid vigil]

so I guess im confused why people say 9% hit

if 30% crit is impossible pre-raid

[plucky nymph]

Because you need 9% because the math is stupid on Blizzards end

[pallid vigil]

do you have a link that describes the stupid math

[plucky nymph]

and getting 305 weapon skill removes the hit chance suppression and gives you 2% hit for w/e reason

The stupid math is as to why you get 2% hit from the first 5 weapon skill.

https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table

[pallid vigil]

so whats the hit advice?

i'm super confused

this math is got my head about to explode

[plucky nymph]

6% with 305+ weapon skill

[plucky yew]

that means u need 1 item with 1% hit

thats what i told 10 mins ago

[plucky nymph]

There's a chart in there that shows your chance to miss depending on the delta of your targets defense skill and your weapon skill.

[plucky yew]

at the beginning

and thats what is told in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8tJ1jU-m18&t=450s

[plucky nymph]

Right but going 1% hit rating WITHOUT the weapon skill

means you are missing 3%

I don't like assuming shit.

People go fucking Hemo PVE.

[plucky yew]

sorry i am talking about pve build (combat)

Mizerok - Stalagg [H]heute um 02:07 Uhr
You need 9% total.
But things are weiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiird.

lel

[plucky nymph]

Wanna tell me things ain't weird? 😛

Enjoy your magical 2% hit o0o0o0o0o0oooo

[plucky yew]

a bit

[plucky nymph]

O _O

woo

[pure sorrel]

So if I'm a human, I can only put 1 point into Weapon Expertise (308ws) and get basically the same benefit as if I had spent 2?

[exotic trellis]

yes.

[plucky nymph]

Ye

[exotic trellis]

unless u go daggers like a real chad

[pure sorrel]

That's glorious

[cedar jewel]

Then again there’s no real dps benefit from the extra point you have in the combat tree

Either you spend it on imp kick for a 50% silence or extra dodge

[plucky nymph]

Dogs +1

[pulsar karma]

Is this 1% hit thing true? Sorry haven't been apart of the discord

[drowsy phoenix]

extra 3 points could be beneficial against players that are high on defense idk

im at 317 on a rogue

2pc cadaverous + evil eye neck + dal'rend OH

[hushed hamlet]

Has anyone experienced a drop in star ruby chance from pickpocketing after the dire mail release. Last week they at least showed up once in a while, this week I've seen zero. Could of course be bad rng. Pickpocketing in short intervals has been perfect for my online time, bit without star rubies it seems really hard to make worth anything...

[cedar jewel]

@pulsar karma at 305 weapon skill you need 6% hit

You already get 5% from 5/5 precision and you need 1% more from gear to reach yellow hit cap

[wooden aurora]

https://classicdb.ch/?item=19120 u dont have this?

[wraith parcel]

If theyre alliance no, they dont have rune

[swift junco]

Hey Guys! Just found out this discord. Ancient wow vanilla player returning to classic, and even though I read some of your previous posts I still have got questions
So 1% hit seems to be the cap you are looking for for skills. Super easy to obtain and with Dire Maul out, even easier than before. Yet, what is the rule afterwards? Crit or Hit?

is it worth farming the garona trinket + 2 DM rings and the bow? Easy 5% hit extra

I'm also confused as to why ruthlessness is better than improved poisons, has anyone got the theorycrafting behind this?

[versed cedar]

as horde rogue improved poison is even weaker, cause you only use poison on offhand

dont know how much weaker it is than ruthlessness on alliance rogues

[tropic karma]

so based on the chart that was linked regarding weapon skill going for 310 with items like mugger's belt seems very valuable. during our mc+ony clears this week my total glancing damage was 31%. the extra 5 weapon skill would then be a 3.1% damage increase. or am I wrong?

nvm my total glancing was 18%. so 1.8% for 5 extra weapon skill

[shut crane]

is this new hit information summerized anywhere?

oh ok the warrior github is probably the best

just gotta read it

linking again for the boys in the back

https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table

[oak portal]

Just thinking out loud a bit after having some poor experienced with spell batching and PVP last night. I think most of us use stance/bar flips. My stealth bar is binded for "4" being cheap shot and then as it comes out of stealth that flips to hemo (or ss). What I have discovered with batching is that after a vanish it sometimes takes a 2 count before I am actually back in stealth. Which means if I vanishes and immediately go for my cheap shot - I often hemo or SS instead. This is not something I saw in Vanilla and seems to be related to how Classic is setup. I can wait the two count, but then I risk being pushed back out of stealth by dots or any other number of abilities. It really has me thinking hard. If vanish is going to be more unreliable than ever - I may have to build a spec that relies less on those reopeners. There are a bunch of threads about this on the bug forum. Many of them with videos showing the various issues. 2 pennies.

[round oriole]

rogue friends I need some guidance

i recently got perditions blade. should i put it as my MH and go dagger spec rn or should I wait for Core Hound Tooth or Distracting dagger

My OH choices would be Thrash Blade (sword), Mirah's Song (sword) or Frightalon (dagger)

im currently combat swords.

[sharp grotto]

Go daggers simple

Got best dagger till AQ

[winged crystal]

@sharp grotto , julies vs shadowfoot as an OH for your barman?

[marble dune]

do you guys lose combo pts when you bandage yourself or is my elv ui tracker display bugged

[pale lark]

bug,i dont lose Cps

[marble dune]

lol fucking elvui ive been thinking it resets cp this whole time since it disappears

[round oriole]

for the combat dagger build, would u guys go murder and then cap lethality like how it has on icy veins or would u go full ruthlessness and leave 2 points off of lethality?

[winged crystal]

If you click off the unit they will go bye bye though

[marble dune]

lol shit ive been using this bandage macro and fucking myself over

/target dayvenie
/use bandage
/targetlasttarget

didnt realize you auto-self bandage if you have a hostile selected

[winged crystal]

yup lol

but i mean, you don't make mistakes right?

[marble dune]

never

[stable wave]

So im in the middle of levelling rogue and im kind of stuck deciding what i want to play with.. (planning to do pve and pvp)
Got a few questions you probably get all the time..
Is hemmorage swords build as viable as dagger for pvp? Or is it waaay worse?
How good is dagger build compared to swords in pve?
Do i worry about things like this or do i just play what i want?

[winged crystal]

I'm pretty sure hemo is a pretty viable pvp spec as you get combo pts to control things a bit faster. Daggers vs swords for pve will really come down to the items. Unless you are human, then swords have an advantage because of teh racial

You can always play whatever you want but consensus is that if you are trying to blend builds and what not, you just end up being sub optimal at both things rather than good for 1 and suboptimal for the other

best bet is to pick a build you enjoy and use that, or respec and try stuff

[stable wave]

No no i will respec for pve/pvp. Its just the question between playing dagger or sword.

I guess ill try some things later and see how it goes

[winged crystal]

swords is usually easier because you can get decent ones from quests. daggers can compete but think they get a little better when high gear becomes available. you aren't wrong playing either spec as long as it's the right one and not a mishmash

[sharp grotto]

@winged crystal i use distracting as OH with my barman before that I used scraper... not sure what julies is so 🤷🏽‍♂️

[winged crystal]

julies dagger is 1.3 speed with some lifesteal

[round oriole]

for dagger spec is Superior Striking on MH really better than Crusader?

[maiden cave]

yes

its more reliable and over time it comes out ahead too (barely)

its a tiny difference

[round oriole]

superior striking prolly cheaper to make too no?

[maiden cave]

never looked at its mats, but I imagine so

I am 2x swords so I just spam crusader like a nerd

[round oriole]

haha i was that too then i got perditions

[sharp grotto]

You can get +4 super cheap which is what I have till I get perds lol then I’ll spend and get +5

[winged crystal]

soooo cheap i love it

got thrash so now I'm using thrash/vanq/ figured this is a good time to enchant them since it's pretty much use until 60 or mirahs. cost me 5g per weapon on my server for +4

[minor sandal]

haste or agi on legs/helm

[sharp grotto]

Agi iirc

[civic crest]

So I tried asking this int he classic rogue discord but they seem a lot less helpful :/ and just tell me to use something else

Do you guys think this chard both are exactly the same for sword and dagger?

https://shadowpanther.net/armor-pve.htm

Because I feel like the scoring might be different between sword and dagger

[halcyon loom]

hiyo was wondering if you guys had a prebis list

i could work off

[civic crest]

Im using the wowhead one honestlky

[halcyon loom]

ohk

was just seeing if it was updated cause of dm

just bought devilsaur set

10g left

😦

[plain sand]

hey guys, any good source about opener and overall fight single and multi target in raid as sword rogue?

[winged crystal]

Open with SS and then SND. Then use SS to keep SND up. Evis if cp are overflowing

Multi target pop BF

[ocean parrot]

hey guys should i pick sword of serenity or black menace for my off hand. I have Zealot blade as my main hand. I am a gnome rogue.

[plucky nymph]

Blade Flurry is a Single Target DPS CD, use it as such.

[exotic trellis]

Sword of serenity

[vivid plume]

Anyone here grind mobs from 30-40 instead of questing?

[drowsy phoenix]

is defense rating good for rogue tanks?

[vocal hornet]

why is that a thing?

[sharp grotto]

Noway it’s a thing lol

[fair carbon]

Dal’Rend’s Tribal Guardian

Has defense

[plucky nymph]

O_O

DISCORD PLEASE

TY

Christ.

[robust moon]

Is it possible to solo maraudon princess at 60?

or not even close

[fair carbon]

As a rogue? Hell no

But if you’re a warlock or a hunter you can

[robust moon]

well it's not solo then xD

[fair carbon]

?

Cause they have a pet?

[robust moon]

I read it wrong

nvm

[fair carbon]

Ah okay

[robust moon]

what about 2x rogues

[fair carbon]

You’re better off just running with a hunter/lock that can solo it for you

They can’t fail unless they really suck

[robust moon]

just I was doing princess once, with full melee group at level 45-50

she died pretty easily

so I thought at 60 it would be super easy

[fair carbon]

Yeah but you had a healer... that was the key distinction

[robust moon]

ok gonna test it someday

[shadow tapir]

The big problem is getting pushed back so you cant actually kill her

[plucky nymph]

Also you can't bleed her.

So, there's there.

[shadow tapir]

Poison immune too right?

[plucky nymph]

Elemental so probably.

[shadow tapir]

Does everyone's RL force you to only do white damage in P1 of Ony?

I get the idea but with vanish its silly I think

[plucky nymph]

Just no CDs.

I've a giant thing about Onyxia if you search for it.

Have to search for Onyxia and not Ony though.

[hushed laurel]

yah, no CDs is pretty normal, though its usually a bigger problem with your loks and such than the rogues

[plucky nymph]

Your Threat Meter is your DPS Meter, remember that Wing Buffet drops threat.

[hushed laurel]

I'm excited to tank ony, its a neat fight

[plucky nymph]

[hushed laurel]

[plucky nymph]

Was just GL talking about rank promotions 👌

[shadow tapir]

Yeah I read your thing Mize. Just double checking

[shadow tapir]

Not gonna sit and do nothing next time, so dumb

[plucky nymph]

wutizthis

[wraith parcel]

For priest benediction

[plucky nymph]

I know that you fucker.

[wraith parcel]

:^)

[plucky nymph]

:3

We had one drop from Rag and the only thing people could think was, "Well... can trade that for an Eye."

Which is dumb.

[old stone]

Onyxia is a shit fight and I hate it. Tail swipe safe zone is like 1 degree. Dont have any aggro problems when I pop cds in p1 though. Just wait until she is in position to start doing damage. Might have to feint if I get lucky procs

Or like yesterday when I got tail swiped on pull when I was standing at 3 o clock. Had to kill whelps so by the time I got to the boss there were no aggro issues at all

[arctic ibex]

Which spec is the best for wpvp? Hemo swords or backstab daggers? I have dal rends rn but i can get daggers from mc.

[calm temple]

cb hemo

[maiden cave]

@arctic ibex both are fine

[arctic ibex]

@maiden cave i am playing combot sword right now.Is there a big difference between hemo-combat spec in wpvp?

[maiden cave]

yeah it plays pretty differently, you get way more control with cbhemo

[sharp grotto]

A lot of people are saying they are more afraid of CB / prep daggers than hemo swords... really it’s better against heavy armor targets and that’s all

[spark raptor]

Yeah cb prep daggers is pretty tough

[winged crystal]

i can't wait to get daggers and just delete people

[maiden cave]

cb prep daggers needs tea combos to really do great

but sure, go for it if you like

[winged crystal]

what do you like for pvp build? sword hemo?

[sleek jay]

anyone else getting stuck on logging in to worldserver?

[sharp grotto]

Make big dick plays with some thistle tea I love it.... and I’ll be 100% honest combat daggers is easy money wpvp winning with cds up....

Cheap > AR > BS > kidney > bs > bs ... like easyyyyyyy winning

[winged crystal]

but 5 min timer hehe

hit 50 last night. going to be in this weird spot soon where I go full pve or full pvp and I don't know which I want to do yet

[sharp grotto]

Honestly it’s not that bad.... for constant fights it will be tho

But if your setting up duels and and taking turns you may wait 2-3 mins

[winged crystal]

yeah works for that decent

[sharp grotto]

Being able to chain BS into BS into BS is nice as fuck lol

[fair carbon]

So.... my guild has basically said that our one Enh shaman won’t have prio on Sulfuras even though he’s gonna be the Nightfall bitch

[sharp grotto]

Who else will get rag if drops lol

[fair carbon]

They’re aiming to give it to a warrior... even though there’s a little thing called BONEREAVER’S EDGE

And I’m trying to explain that it’s a stupid idea

And even the warrior they’re trying to fork it over to thinks it’s a stupid idea

Like... what reason will our Enh shaman have to keep raiding if he’s gonna be stuck with Nightfall everywhere. You don’t do that

Standard trade-off is that your shaman on NF duty gets Sulfuras. NF is their raiding weapon. Sulfuras is their “everything else” weapon...

[sharp grotto]

They tryin to make the rnhance hate life even more

[fair carbon]

Yeah....

What’s his incentive to stay?

Sulfuras IS

“Classic was hard because people were bad 15 years ago.”
Turns out some people are still bad....

[gritty goblet]

how do you optimize the energy tick in pvp , in openers especially? cast on tick?

[maiden cave]

well use your opener right before the energy tick

use an addon to watch the tick

dont leave it too late or you overshoot and then you miss 2s of energy

[fair carbon]

@azure mesa it can be picked up by anyone

Only Quel’Serrar itself is locked

[dusk crystal]

I am amazed how bad people still are, like you said

sometimes it seems like were gone 15years back

[urban matrix]

is pickpocket affected by spell hit?

[tough pilot]

@urban matrix some say it is, some say it isn't. don't think anyone has any proof if it does yet.

[urban matrix]

I just got three resists in a row, standard 9% hit cap, just real shit luck but I've been told I need more hit. I'm a bit incredulous that melee hit will help but idk.

[tough pilot]

Yeah i doubt melee hit has anything to do with it. If any hit can alter it, its prob gonna be spell hit.

Time to build a spell hit set basically. Only way to test it.

[urban matrix]

haha true.

"sorry fam, I also need Star of Mysteria"

[tough pilot]

LMAO

yeah just be sure to make sure no one needs of course.

[urban matrix]

I'll just res it like every other butthole in classic forming a group

worst part of classic

[dusk crystal]

I'll just make my own groups and take people who won't need same items

[urban matrix]

I mean as a rogue tha'ts not always possible

[dusk crystal]

reserving is uhh scumbag

but then again I'm never gonna join such a group

[wraith parcel]

Idk why people are so upset about reserving stuff

Otherwise they would just never invite the people that want their item, better be upfront about it

[winged crystal]

if I saw a group advertised reserving an item I didn't need, why not go?

[urban matrix]

Because when you res an item and need 9 other people to do the instance you're telling them that your time is somhow more valueable than theirs

[wraith parcel]

Well he spent the time getting the group together

[urban matrix]

pfft

Such hard work

[winged crystal]

i loathe putting groups together

someone asked me if I wanted to do ZF with them after they got their hammer, I needed gaz so sure I'll go. Invites me, says he's going afk in flight and makes me leader to fill. ummm, nty i'm out

[urban matrix]

The reward for spamming trade with a macro is the ability to guilt free master loot something to yourself?

further more you have better odds of winnign the roll if it drops even with three other people than of actually seeing it drop

OR make a group where you're the only one who needs it with friends or whatever.

I need Rend, so I 4/5 man it

it's easy

[wraith parcel]

Reserving is basicly the same as making a group where nobody needs it

[dusk crystal]

true nobody gonna join there who needs it lol

[wraith parcel]

But for example, if you're reserving rends mh then you might get warriors that join for truestrike, whereas not inviting any warrior because "you want to be the only one for rend mh" wouldnt allow that option

[urban matrix]

well what's worth more, doing 3 runs in the tim eit takes you to make one

just so u can get yr shot at a 4% drop

silly

[wraith parcel]

Option A. Reserve and have a 4% chance
Option B. Dont reserve and be 3 people, 1.33% chance

🤔

[winged crystal]

if you need an item on reserve, just dont go with that group. i really don't see how it makes them a bad person

[urban matrix]

that's not how it works

[winged crystal]

that statistics

that's how they work

[urban matrix]

you have a 33% chance of winning the roll

it doesn't change the drop rate

[winged crystal]

of a 4% chance to drop

[wraith parcel]

?

33% of 4 is 1.33

[blissful locust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/355817874050383873/634791765676654695/thinking.png

[wraith parcel]

So you get the item 1.33% of the time

[winged crystal]

assuming 3 rollers ofc

[urban matrix]

I see.

Anywho, didn't say they were bad people, just greedy and probably jagoffs

obv I don't go on any runs where mh is reserved because why tf would I waste my time

[winged crystal]

that's why you don't have a 50% to gets heads twice flipping a coin. it's 50% on 1 chance and 50% on a 2nd chance, but then you weigh the 2 chances against each other as well

[urban matrix]

Also don't want to run with self important players who think their time is better than mine in a team based game

[winged crystal]

they don't. they are trying to arrange a group that suits their wants. why wouldn't you do that if you could?

[urban matrix]

Pretty simple, easier to attract a wider range of people and ability to form a better group comp quicker, giving me more chances over all

[winged crystal]

they dont' care about attracting a wider range. they would rather take longer to fill and have a better chance

[wraith parcel]

It would be faster yes, 3x as fast? Doubtful

[urban matrix]

I mean that depends, just a number.

[wraith parcel]

Depends on the item ofc

It also feels a lot worse to lose a roll on an item than not having it drop

[winged crystal]

it's just a numbers game. you can take the chance that you'll have to roll against people but maybe get through it faster, if the same people stay and repeat over and over and over

[urban matrix]

look at people try to find a key at odd hours of the night for an hour, but won't take me because they want MH lol

[winged crystal]

or you can take a little longer and if it drops the item is yours and agreed upon before starting

[urban matrix]

well little is also subjective

[winged crystal]

it all is. assuming the group is slower because you reserve an item is also subjective

[urban matrix]

forming the group? I'd put money down that I can make a dece group faster with no res

[winged crystal]

maybe, maybe not

[urban matrix]

clearning the content? probbaly the same unless you resort to undergeared sub 60 people who are just desperate for anything

[shadow tapir]

How geared would one need to be to 2 rogue Angerforge

[urban matrix]

probably close to pre bis with AR combat spec

he hits like a truck tho

i did it fine with a druid tank but even he got gibbed in the end sometimes

[wraith parcel]

Dont think you need that much gear, you can solo it aswell

Problem is clearing out the trash to allow for you to solo it

[shadow tapir]

I have HoJ so just helping guildies. Do you need to clear eles?

[wraith parcel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak8BmCCSKsM&t=4s

[shadow tapir]

oh pulling back, gotcha

[wraith parcel]

Na, the ele+dwarf to the right

[shadow tapir]

lol

thats clever

Can 3 man just walk down and kill him?

[wraith parcel]

Ye

[urban matrix]

not too geared, here's a video of a guy in full nightslayer doin it lol

3 man is ez

[wraith parcel]

Not too geared to duo it

If he could do it solo, was my point

[shadow tapir]

Yeah all good, good to know

[wraith parcel]

Cant do that as a druid though dont have enough cds to burn the boss down before the healers get to him

[urban matrix]

Well if u glitch him out in the wall

[wraith parcel]

Yes, but then you dont have him up there and can reset when you get low

[urban matrix]

interesting strat for sure

stuff like that is neat but doesn't seem terribly inefficient

err efficient*

meanwhile I"m on my 5th pp resist of my first brd run and want to hang myself

[winged crystal]

I could do that twice before I got annoyed and stopped

[urban matrix]

considering it took my pal 276 runs to get one

[winged crystal]

that's what I'm getting at hahaha

[urban matrix]

finally got it last night

I got the firs tone weeks ago, then our druid buddy got one like 1.5 weeks ago

but hey, we all stuck it out till we all had it

what patch did they finally make it so vanish worked like you'd expect

cata?

[shadow tapir]

Vanish has had some many broken phases who knows

[urban matrix]

well yeah, i know it took years for them to make it decent

just reminded now as I vanish and but oop jk not really

prep vanish again, haha for a second we thought u were gone but lol

[shadow tapir]

Yeah its super busted against mobs atm

[urban matrix]

well it was like that all through vanilla nothing new

[civic crest]

so I simmed combat dagger against sealfate dagger and the difference wasnt big enough to make me go combat, but here comes the question

should I open with backstab instead of ambush, because the crit chance is 30% higher?

[urban matrix]

what sim tool

[winged crystal]

i feel like ti was fixed and then broken multiple times too

[urban matrix]

I would imagine ambush still since the multiplier is so much higher

tbh surprised seal fate would already be a thing, i wasn't sure it was possible to hit the crit values to really make it shine

[shadow tapir]

Angerforge isnt stunnable right

[wraith parcel]

Nop, he is not

[shadow tapir]

k ty

[cerulean idol]

Is this the only rogue classic discord?

[plucky nymph]

This is not a rogue classic discord

and not the only one.

[halcyon loom]

anyone have a slice and dice wa

[maiden cave]

https://discord.gg/6Yq9ReE is the big one

@cerulean idol

[plucky nymph]

It's also, like this one, awful to read or get information from.

[maiden cave]

it has plenty of good information

[plucky nymph]

I mean, where's this plenty of information?

Is it somewhere easy to access?

and yes there is a good post in their Announcements.

There is however, way more information there.

[signal ember]

60 now finally

[plucky nymph]

AND SO BEGINS YOUR DELVE INTO UPPER BLACKROCK SPIRE

[signal ember]

BRS generally but also strat/scholo

[drowsy phoenix]

felstriker mmmghhhgnhg

[dawn warren]

how are rogues vs mages in classic gold farming?

[plucky nymph]

One cannot AoE farm at all, while the other can AoE farm without much effort.

Though there are other methods to farming.

[dawn warren]

i heard that rogues can do stealth runs, especially with the lasher nerf reducing the overall gold generated by mages

[thorn sedge]

Hello guys. I have a question. Is gutgore ripper usable in mc and onyxia due to its debuff?

[sharp grotto]

Yea, most weapon debuffs are going to be a lower priority and be knocked off

[signal ember]

How do you guys manage CP when mobs are low? Finish or just switch target?

[shadow tapir]

1 or 2 CP evis is still more energy efficient than SS so just finish usually

+relentless strikes

[fair carbon]

If things are about to die and I need to swap I just reup SnD if it’s low enough

[sharp grotto]

yea i just reup SnD

[bronze geyser]

Has anyone found the optimal amount of +hit for DPS? I can't find anything anywhere... Obviously 9% for yellow attacks, but I'm at 13% and it feels really nice. Any opinions?

Or should I just follow my BiS guide and shut up

[shadow tapir]

305 weapon skill makes yellow hit cap 6%. With Precision giving 5% you only need 1% from gear. However, hit still benefits white damage which is a large potion of your spread so more isn't necessarily bad

So as for optimal I dont think anyone can say. Too many factors.

[sharp grotto]

tawny

you use spreadsheet?

[shadow tapir]

I havent messed with it yet

[sharp grotto]

ah okay

[cyan grotto]

Whats a good price for Krol Blade?

[rapid night]

Just finished a visual rehaul for my Combat Swords WA, if anyone is interested in pulling it down and giving some feedback ❤

https://wago.io/0tgPALasd

(Expose Armor slot is overridden with Sunder if it exists, more for awareness)

[fair carbon]

I think I might have grabbed the old version of that one

Actually

[civic crest]

So I might be an idiot and doing something wrong completely

I've been playing with the bloodmoon spreadshit for a bit, and IM personally playing Sealfate dagger and not combat dagger, because the difference in dps was 9 dps

Then I figured out instead of going the bis from wowhead and all that I would check out what 6/8 shadowcraft+2/2 devilsaur would sim at with my current weapons and gear (strat cape, mara ring, ZF quest ring, hoj, blackhand, specters blade, distracting dagger and satyr's bow)

so it turned out that was better

so now I replaced 6/8 shadowcraft 2/2 devil with 8/8 nightslayer

and it still "sims" worse then the shadowcraft

am I doing something wrong?

[loud tree]

6 piece shadowcraft is strong for daggers

[honest pewter]

6 piece shadowcraft o p

[loud tree]

I just got it yesterday and switched to daggies. i love it

[maiden cave]

@civic crest I dont quite believe that SF is only 9 dps lower

[sharp grotto]

^

[cursive ridge]

I need me some shadowcrap

to go with my barman shanker

[sharp grotto]

I was curious but then a rogue more geared than me was SF and just blew him out... it’s hard to see it being very good right now

[cursive ridge]

doesnt it require a ridiculous amount of crit that isnt quite available just yet?

[sharp grotto]

It’s like a base amount of 30% ain’t it? I know it don’t really show out till what like AQ gear?

But don’t quote me on that bc I’m not sure just something I read

[cursive ridge]

I must have read the same thing

[plucky nymph]

If you have more than 30%, after Buffs and Consumables, as well as 9% Hit Rating, then Seal Fate Daggers is better than Combat Daggers. Less than that, however, it's either really close or in Combat Daggers favor. More often than not, the Gear necessary for Seal Fate Daggers to take off won't happen until around Phase 5, with Ahn'Qiraj.

You can get 30% with world buffs EZPZ, but then you die.

[sharp grotto]

Wait huh? I have like 27% without buffs?

So your saying with buffs sealfate would come out better?

[marble dune]

https://imgur.com/a/bFM1TXm

anyone know what addon this is that tracks dr?

[sharp grotto]

Prob Omni ?

[shadow tapir]

Really dont think 27% crit and 9% hit is possible atm

[winged crystal]

Aq into naxx is what I always heard as well

[sharp grotto]

Just asking off that thing he posted

[civic crest]

@maiden cave then I really am doing something wrong in the blood moon spreadsheet

[pale lark]

@marble dune if u find that DR tracker pm me pls exde

[maiden cave]

@pale lark https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/diminish/

[odd oriole]

Does anyone know if Sword Specialization can proc off of a proc ? i mean in theory it should right ?

[fair carbon]

Yes it can

Only WF has an internal cooldown

[pale lark]

@maiden cave my guy, appreciate it

[odd oriole]

What's WF if you don't mind me asking @fair carbon

[fallen wharf]

does anyone know if using keris is fine for ony? or is the debuff slot too bad

[fair carbon]

Windfury

[opal wagon]

is there supposed to be a rogue quest at lvl 50?

[odd oriole]

ah good to know thx

[fair carbon]

The Sunken Temple quest

But it isn’t available yet

[neat copper]

Hey guys
.
Every bis and stat guide out there seems to contradict themselves. Can anyone please confirm that as a rogue with 305 weapon skill, you only need 6% hit to be capped for yellow attacks?

Also, is it correct that with a 308 weapon skill, you will be capped for the least amount of damage reduction on glancing blows?

In other words, as a combat pve rogue, you would only need 1% hit and 3 weapon skill, as talents take care of the rest.

I understand that more hit and weapon skill is always helpful, but that once capped one should focus on agi, str/ap and crit in that order to max out dps?

Thanks.

[maiden cave]

@neat copper 1) yes, 6% hit with 305 WS.
2) yes, 308 gives max glancing reduction.
I don't fully agree with focusing on other things, hit is undervalued on blizzards side so hit % gear often ends up the most valuable for your DPS (see: Truestrike Shoulders)

6pc SC is also very good

[neat copper]

Thanks for the reply Hanbi.

Still, it would be very interesting to see seomeone test these things out. Maxed out on hit or go for more agi,ap and crit.

[maiden cave]

the DPS spreadsheet does a pretty good job of that

[neat copper]

where can I find it? 😄

[maiden cave]

https://discord.gg/6Yq9ReE

[neat copper]

ah, so you mean an addon? Well, that would mean I need to get all the gears and test it out myself. Hoped it was tested out already and then aim for the right gear.

[maiden cave]

no, its a spreadsheet, its in the #dps-spreadsheet channel on that discord

[neat copper]

oh, sorry about that. Wow this looks really nice. Thank you so much for the help Hanbi. Have a great day! 😄

[maiden cave]

np enjoy ;p

[atomic sigil]

would love someone's help rn

[plucky nymph]

With?

prepares himself

[atomic sigil]

i was following a build before that got changed recently, it was pretty much the same as this but had deflection > riposte to help with melee mobs i guess. so i'd put 6 points in total into those two talents. now it got changed and i dunno what to do.

leveling btw

[plucky nymph]

Riposte is very strong for leveling so I would suggest following that path.

What level are you atm?

[atomic sigil]

i would rly like endurance and (especially improved sprint) for bit of pvp. but riposte is insane.

[plucky nymph]

Course.

[atomic sigil]

just dinged 35. was literally following the same build as before ^ but it seems it got changed and they removed deflect and riposte for some reason. it was the one on wowhead.

[plucky nymph]

Just follow this - https://shadowpanther.net/leveling.htm

Will get you through leveling just fine.

[atomic sigil]

hmm

[plucky nymph]

Looking @ this specifically -

[atomic sigil]

nice, its got improved sprint and endurance which is what i wanted for a bit of pvp mainly

lets see

[plucky nymph]

or just getting around even.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[atomic sigil]

true

just filling into the talent calc atm

fuck yh, think this was prty much what i was following before till they changed it 🤦🏽

thank you!!

[plucky nymph]

np, if you lose that link for w/e reason it should be in the Pins in this chat channel room thingie.

[atomic sigil]

so talent into sword spec last then?

[plucky nymph]

Yeah early on there are a few really strong maces and locking yourself out of those is poor planning.

That and the likeliness you get a sword proc when combat is so short doesn't help much.

[atomic sigil]

cool

cheers :D

[plucky nymph]

👍

[old stone]

by the time you get sword spec you pretty much have both the SM and RFD quest swords. I went sword spec during leveling as alliance

[plucky nymph]

Yeah once you are like... 45 or so, you're set in swords but the talent still isn't worth picking up.

[old stone]

more like 38 but whatever, small difference

[atomic sigil]

so is the 5% chance for an extra hit not that great?

[plucky nymph]

Not when you are not in combat for more then 30 seconds at a time.

[atomic sigil]

lets say you do have sm and rfd swords (both with fiery wep)

[plucky nymph]

or don't have the energy to possibly trigger the ability.

etc.

[atomic sigil]

and the extra skill from weapon exp is decent?

like if i chose to delay putting into that, god..losing my mind over this. gonna just follow that link :P

[plucky nymph]

Weapon Expertise, due to Hit Rating mathematics, will lead to much more damage.

[atomic sigil]

true

aight

[sly shuttle]

How can I hit a warlock as a rogue please ?

[shadow tapir]

What level are you

[plucky nymph]

You have to walk up to the Warlock and attack them.

Did they fear you? Will of the Forskin out.

Interrupt next fear.

[shadow tapir]

If you get in fear without a break youre dead basically

Dont let them cast it, need to vanish death coil

[plucky nymph]

If you're an UD Rogue are literally designed to win every fight against a Warlock.

Otherwise, GL.

[old stone]

if you survive fear / deathcoil, pot, sprint and vanish cs. You might kill him before you die to dots

[plucky nymph]

This is why you spend a small fortune on Restorative Potions :3

[winged crystal]

Back to lvling comment, I have endurance and imp Sprint with riposte. So why not both?

[plucky nymph]

He does.

[winged crystal]

Ok good.

[shut dagger]

went pretty hard this reset

[plucky nymph]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dusk crystal]

buff to maximum hardness

[halcyon loom]

hey guys

is it worth getting blackstone ring still

[plucky nymph]

Just get more mages and warriors 👌

[halcyon loom]

if dm is out

[plucky nymph]

Do you HAVE other options?

[halcyon loom]

nah i got no prebis rings atm

just leveling ones

[plucky nymph]

Masons was ~5agi behind Blackstone to begin with and is free.

[halcyon loom]

i have masons but blackstone ring has hit

[plucky nymph]

and you have no other hit from anything else?

[maiden cave]

@halcyon loom blackstone is great still, but you'll go for 2x tarnished elven rings when you want best pre-bis for raiding

but they're not great for pvp (0 sta)

[near fable]

why dont top rogue logs use vanish ambush/dagger macro into rotation?

[maiden cave]

because ambush is not great when you're not specced into it

[fringe spindle]

6 set bonus on shadowcraft ppm or flat chance?

[shadow tapir]

Dont think there are ppm in classic

[plucky nymph]

SC6pc is way too streaky to be PPM/RPPM.

[shadow tapir]

PPM was introduced in like Cata

[shadow tapir]

Double crusader is right for swords yeah

[frosty rover]

How to kill Warlock :
First, equip a dagger.
2nd, use Cold Blood.

3rd Press Ambush then Vanish. Use prep, repeat gg

[maiden cave]

now do that on a warlock with PvP gear and SL

[frosty rover]

never seen one, they all wear their stupid pre-bis felcloth items xD

with 0 stamina sometime I even only have to ambush once xD

[maiden cave]

the duel tournament at Faerlina should give you an idea of what to expect ;p

[tough pilot]

In a vacuum warlocks slaughter rogues.

But sure if it's a casual warlock that doesn't PvP ...

[maiden cave]

judging from the tourney its a pretty neat matchup, but that's before pvp trinkets and before warlocks get better sta gear

so later it might be harder

[spark raptor]

Blizz might as well rename Fear to Ranged 8cp kidney shot

Cant wait for pvp trinket

[maiden cave]

I mean, considering the stunlock combos we can pull off before people can break it with trinkets, its not too bad ;p

the CS KS Blind Sap repeat combos are a bit bonkers

[real surge]

Is dungeon spam effective leveling in classic?

[maiden cave]

sure