Yes, LW has no BoPs
#classic-discussion
karmic bridge
is there an addon that compares stats if I shift hover
hidden basin
can i go maraudon at lvl 48?
exotic trellis
you can go to maraudon at level 45.
hidden basin
nice thanks
thick sinew
mug o hurt worth 7g at 45 to replace sword of omen?
quiet copper
using a swing timer, am i to time SS AFTER an auto attack?
sly valve
Aren't you close to getting Thrash Blade at 45?
thick sinew
for MH yeah
jaunty stag
@quiet copper Yes right after an auto is the ideal time to SS and riposte.
But im guessing its more optimal to riposte on CD/proc ignoring swings
broken pollen
i plan on doing a lot of BG's when they come out, was rogue a preferred BG premade class?
or will mages cuck me there too
like in dungeons
noble sonnet
People didn’t really try hard BGs back then like they do now in retail.
Rogues were good in Vanilla.
broken pollen
i remember being in a pretty seriouse premade for honor farming
but that was my mage in vanilla
i'd actually remember far more premade BG's in vanilla than retail, since rbgs are kinda dead
especially once honor first came out
bg's i mean, for quick honor
errant timber
of these mostly identical swords - https://i.imgur.com/pVs9Dlj.png
do i want serenty in the offhand or the slicer
plucky nymph
Does not matter.
errant timber
not the slower one?
plucky nymph
They might as well be the same speed...
plucky nymph
Nice.
willow kayak
Is strength useless?
shadow tapir
Adds a small amount of melee AP but much less useful than AGI
plucky nymph
Same amount of AP as AGI.
errant timber
agi just also gives crit and dodge
willow kayak
So is stam or str better?
noble sonnet
Yeah there's going to be try hard groups and shit. I twinked @ 59 for months back pre-bc and you'd think it was our full-time jobs. Lots of rivalries and fun times. It's just different now where all these people that are used to retail... it's a totally different gamer ecosystem. Hard to explain.
plucky nymph
Why would Stamina ever be better...
karmic bridge
any good?
daring thunder
not really no
drowsy phoenix
anti-caster meme set
jaunty stag
Anyone (preferably with custom WA xp) wanna help me troubleshoot this weakaura?: https://wago.io/jraSSdkd-
Its supposed to put an icon over nameplates that have been pickpocketed in the last 10 minutes.
severe ocean
any good dungeon pickpot farms ?
plucky nymph
Yeah BRD :3
stuck peak
Do you guys try to get a sword/mace asap?
is double daggers just not worth it for solo and early levelling?
plucky nymph
Sounds right.
fair carbon
So world first Sulfuras happened
And....
It was given to a warrior.....
What a fucking waste
plucky nymph
Yeah shoulda gave it to a DK.
fathom hearth
Someone claimed another dude was first on some streaming site
plucky nymph
some streaming site
hushed laurel
And this is the only time hand of rag will be remotely important at all
plucky nymph
Eh it's good for a little while still.
tough pilot
hand of rag was already dropped for alliance guild Myth of Bigglesworth.
funny how people are blatantly calling things world first though.
Good rule of thumb if you think something is world first, it probably isnt
tough pilot
I mean most dont prefer to announce since it spikes mat prices up through the roof.
plucky nymph
Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
tough pilot
But it always leaks out.
plucky nymph
Ye, and talking about Bindings is a fucking hideous idea.
tough pilot
Yeah its just overall not worth. grats you get some compliments and eyes on you, but while that is happening other guilds are gonna raise the prices on the mats you need to the point you wont even want the item anymore.
hushed laurel
We have like, 5 months to farm bindings. I'm sure every other guild will see 2-6 drop, and mine will never see 1
tough pilot
Yeah doesnt really bother me since none of it is rogue prio so meh
hushed laurel
Yah, HoR goes to whichever shaman shows us they have the gold to finish it
hushed laurel
Yah, that's fucking hilarious
tough pilot
Myth gave theirs to a ret
plucky nymph
Might as well have been a hunter...
hushed laurel
Feral or bust
dusk crystal
you have to be fucking selfish to take it as warrior knowing how dog shit it is
tough pilot
I mean usually stuff like that is already soft prioed
always good to find how guilds run their loot systems prior to downing bosses 🙂
transparency is fun
dusk crystal
yea, thats a guild i wouldn't even join
plucky nymph
hold onto this tooltip real fast
hushed laurel
Our loot system is scary, but hopefully functional
tough pilot
We run blind dkp.
plucky nymph
O _O
tough pilot
Imo the best system.
plucky nymph
wtfisyourproblem
fair carbon
Abandon ship wtf
dusk crystal
loot council of couple of non-idiots is best
fair carbon
Exactly
tough pilot
loot council lol
fair carbon
Even the WoWhead article was like
tough pilot
yeah ill pass
hushed laurel
We use a modified version of onslaughts loot system
fair carbon
Loot Council w/ rolls
dusk crystal
not every loot council gives them to buddies XD
fair carbon
Loot council decides who rolls
tough pilot
i remember i was gonna be a class leader for a guild on whitemane and on loot council, game wasnt even out yet and people were already trying shady shit.
dusk crystal
yea something like that, people who need most decided by them roll
tough pilot
thankfully ended up going bigglesworth
tough pilot
we use an addon for dkp, you bid on the gear you want. if bid is tie, you roll. no bias, no bs.
fair carbon
DKP is straight up stupid
plucky nymph
DKP is fine so long it's regulated.
tough pilot
its regulated. yes.
dusk crystal
my experience of dkp is people hoard like fuck and dont take upgrades
fair carbon
Yep
dusk crystal
save everything for that one drop
plucky nymph
Wrath Helm to DPS warrior 4head
tough pilot
you lose x amount of dkp per month or w/e it was, to prevent full on hoarding.
and if someone wants to save up for a pc? so be it?
fair carbon
Still inevitable
tough pilot
whats wrong with that.
fair carbon
Leads to revenge rolls
hushed laurel
DKP decay has to be extreme to break hoarding, then it punishes people who don't get drops
fair carbon
Oh you got the piece I wanted? I’ll completely dick you out of this
plucky nymph
Because if you are hoarding to fuck guildies get out
tough pilot
i mean if you wanna save up for a pc, while the other rogues are getting geared and out pumping you, youre gonna get benched in our guild.
hushed laurel
If you do tax system where you decay more at higher amounts, you still screw over people
tough pilot
so save up at your own risk.
plucky nymph
Decay has to escalate and reset every tier, otherwise it's a mess.
hushed laurel
Now, DKP is BiS if you allow gambling
plucky nymph
yeeee
hushed laurel
One of our members is putting together a gambling add on so we can throw gold around like morons
tough pilot
i mean at end of day each system is flawed. like my case, i would of been joining a guild of people i dont know irl, so loot council would of always been shady from get go.
cant put trust in 4+ randoms in charge of loot
fair carbon
Clearly the BiS method is Peggle Loot
hushed laurel
Pebble got candycrushed, but the add on is still fine
Prolly better than the standalone now honestly
nimble rampart
So is Shadowcraft(6) + DS (2) Bis for daggers?
plucky nymph
mmmmmmm, probably BiS for anything.
nimble rampart
how much raid gear would be needed to cancel that out tho
plucky nymph
Which part?
nimble rampart
well if you get SC(6)+DS(2)
u cant replace a single piece of arrmor without losing the bonuses
would 1 epic even be worth it then
plucky nymph
It's raw stats in this case, so more annoying to figure out.
But the Vanish CD is worth it ASAP.
You want NS shoulder+gloves and then any other piece.
nimble rampart
so basciically u need 3 pieces of epics to make it wroth
plucky nymph
Since Gloves will be breaking DS2p.
hold this
T1 pants are better if you are getting the 3pc bonus from it .
If you have T1 belt/chest then BF pants are better.
T2 3pc isn't good for Horde at all.
Very good for PVP.
For both sides.
Thankfully not every piece has +Crit or anything so just find the pieces you can.
gentle walrus
is there any addon/ aura taht shows the right timer for ccs?
like you sap someone for 35s but tehy always break free early
like teh timer of the cc is wrong dont know
fair carbon
They always have a chance to break CC
plucky nymph
Yeah the break chances are big ol fuckin shruggies.
gentle walrus
so tehy can break at 1s or at 34s ?
fair carbon
Yeah
gentle walrus
lol
plucky nymph
Yes the spell says UP TO a time.
gentle walrus
fuck
fair carbon
It’s why mage CC is so strong
gentle walrus
i suposse high levels more chance to break?
fair carbon
There are multiple factors
gritty goblet
what is DS referring to?
plucky nymph
devilsaur
gritty goblet
ah yeah im pepega
exotic trellis
Wait but @plucky nymph why would you NOT flex on people by wearing Bloodfang pants?
exotic trellis
why not just
get more bloodfang
4Head
Yes I know the rest of the set is in BWL
plucky nymph
Because you can't.
fair carbon
I mean you can get 2 pieces 
hushed laurel
Helm is still BiS looks.
gritty goblet
anybody got a list/resource on items that increase stealth effectiveness? for goldfarming purposes
crude robin
What do you guys think about the shadowcraft armor set?
fair carbon
It’s good
crude robin
worth farming? i have 4 pieces
fair carbon
If you can get the 6p bonus sure
crude robin
aight tyvm
fair carbon
As long as you have space for Devilsaur
exotic trellis
probably easier to just farm the rest of pre raid though
broken pollen
were should i go at lvl 40?
itried badlands, getting obliterated. waste of time traveling there
shadow tapir
What faction
plucky nymph
yoink
sharp grotto
Damn I need to get some of the plans :/
plucky nymph
Totally random this time, had a quest in the area > _> just make sure to check the vendors whenever you are in town.
willow prism
Pepega question: Is it possible to remove poisons?
shadow tapir
Nope
drowsy phoenix
I love fighting max level elementals
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic live since: 27 days 6 hours 4 minutes 56 seconds
raven snow
!classic
willow kayak
How do i decide which sword goes in MH and OH?
raven basin
all the energy tick weak auras/ add-ons i keep getting are giving me an error unknown unit
makes my wow crash
anyone having the same problem?
karmic bridge
As long as you have a minimally working brain you qualify to run mc
karmic bridge
You still end up having decent dps/gear though right? just cuz the nature of how your preraid bis is from lower level dungeons anyway
karmic bridge
is 9% the cap
plucky nymph
strong
helm, neck, shoulder, chest, gloves, belt, boots
rings, trinkets and weapons are whack
Yeah 9% is your goal along with 305+ Weapon Skill.
Had to check if I knew the person or something but nah, just... random.
plucky nymph
...wut.
shadow tapir
Hit rating requirements:
When fighting a level 63 mob (all bosses in classic wow) the hit cap is effectively 9% for yellow swings. This is due to the bosses defense skill of 315 and your weapon skill of 300, the delta (change) between the bosses' defense and your weapon skill is 15 and this adds a 1% hit modifier. If your weapon skill is 305, that delta between weapon skill and defense is gone and the hit modifier is no longer in place, making the yellow hit cap 8%. In addition to 305 weapon skill negating the hit modifier, it was also determined that it gives you +2% hit, making the yellow hit cap 6%.
plucky nymph
Tldr
shadow tapir
305 weapon skill is effectively 3% hit vs bosses
shadow tapir
This is due to the bosses defense skill of 315 and your weapon skill of 300, the delta (change) between the bosses' defense and your weapon skill is 15 and this adds a 1% hit modifier.
idk
With precision you only need 1% from gear though /shrug
plucky nymph
I was curious where you were missing the 2%, but that's just weird and understandable.
signal ember
Farm devilsaur set and you're good to go
plucky nymph
I mean not even that.
If you need 6% it's literally nothing but a piece of SC.
or ANY tier.
signal ember
I don't think SC have any hit
shadow tapir
Rogue classic discord, warrior discord has the same
They have spreadsheets and stuff, im too dumb to understand it though
plucky nymph
That's nice, I see a special miss tomorrow and it's your ass.
shadow tapir
lol good luck!
shadow tapir
First time I had ever heard of it so was skeptical but both groups had the same info and seemed to be knowledgeable
Learned about the crit cap too which is weird
plucky nymph
Yeah it's being two groups makes me believe it entirely, unless it's the same fucking people doing both sides.
lol
plucky nymph
A crit cap DIFFERENT from the normal cap?
shadow tapir
Crit cap is a moving target that is directly related to your current amount of hit - you can calculate your individual characters crit cap for white swings by using this formula for 305 Weapon Skill while attacking from behind vs a level 63 target (any classic WoW boss):
100%(Overall Attacks) - 24.8%(Miss) - 6%(Dodge) - 0%(Parry) - 0%(Block) - 40%(Glancing Blow) + 4.8%(Crit Supression) + Hit% = Crit Cap
plucky nymph
Yeah that's normal.
shadow tapir
Okay, just seems like an odd mechanic
plucky nymph
Was like that until uhhh, Cata?
shadow tapir
Why would it push off all non crits instead of just doing the % after the hit
Ah I see
plucky nymph
Because it's rolling on a set table that has to add up to 100%.
You've your base damage mitigation factors, +expertise, +hit, everything left over is your total potential crit chance.
You could, trivially, hit the crit cap in TBC - https://i.imgur.com/Bl4tP.jpg
Only like, 2% off there or so.
If you do only need 6% total hit with 305 weapon skill you can drop some pretty awful items;
Blackstone, Blackcrow, uhhh...
Ancient Bone Bow or Riphook is BiS now.
plucky nymph
It's tight between Blackstone, Innervating Band, Masons, etc.
can roll well maybe?
and those are NOT in Mara.
shadow tapir
Can that roll of agility?
plucky nymph
Dunno.
Best ring is probably a str/agi green.
or that ring really.
of the Tiger, or w/e
mmm
also White Bone Band is a thing hahaha
shadow tapir
IDK but Im okay with a small downgrade if it means not doing dozens of Mara runs
plucky nymph
Yep.
WBB is 24ap and a trivial quest.
and wtf are these mediafire spreadsheets...
lovely website really
shadow tapir
Yeah right lol
Warrior's is so much better
Think they said use WPS whatever that is
plucky nymph
Also the Classic Rogue discord is very poorly organized o _O
That's still weird, but sure.
and WPS is just as reader.
shadow tapir
ah
karmic bridge
is there a ratio of how much better agi is over ap
plucky nymph
Leightweight, Open-Source, yadayadayada.
shadow tapir
9 lvl higher hunter apparently doesnt know how to feign-trap
plucky nymph
29 agi is 1% crit.
15 agi is 15AP + .5% crit, versus 30AP, I would probably take that.
karmic bridge
Yea i've got 10 agi vs 24 ap, should take the ap
plucky nymph
no STR or anything ye?
24ap probably.
Just DL the spreadsheet off of MediaFire through one of the 12 DL links.
4head
Why isn't this hosted on Mega or something...
wtf.
I get not wanting to port it to Google Spreadsheets due to calculations possibly breaking, or w/e compatibility issues might arise, but fuuuuuuuuuuuck me.
sharp grotto
my guild asked for my top 3 items i would want from Ony / MS... idk what to put lol
shadow tapir
MS?
sharp grotto
MC*
hidden basin
do people always require 50+ for Princess only farm in Mara?
proud quiver
hello
is there a macro to combine auto attacks with spells
so i autoattack with the button even when i have no energy
sharp grotto
You should auto atk by just right clicking but you can make start attack macros in each one
proud quiver
/start attack ?
vocal hornet
there are times between mobs when your autoattack will stop.
I have it bound to SS on rogue and claw on druid
#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike
white hits are important.
cursive ridge
Thank you, I've been meaning to find a solution for this. Ill try out your macro!
gritty goblet
@raven snow what do you mean by assassination? deep assa/ seal fate?
noble sonnet
I macro riposte into my SS and start attack macro so that it uses it upon parrying.
gritty goblet
i get that too and i'm 51 lmao
people just spam /who then spam persons that fit what they want
strangely, ppl ask me for ZF
im fucking 51
gritty goblet
wut? there's sims?!?!?!?!
ruby bridge
would love to know too
plucky nymph
There's their Mediafire spreadsheet.
man these are real poop now...
only rogue
oo0o0o0o0o0oooo
plucky nymph
rear EVI dodged o _o stop it
drowsy phoenix
do the funky spine
proud quiver
outlaw in mainhand and omen in offhand or omen main outlaw offhand?
plucky nymph
Slow | Fast
Highest bottom end DMG in MH.
royal wind
is our offhand just a stat stick or is weapon dps important too?
karmic bridge
Faster OH for poison application?
plucky nymph
Yes
strong schooner
If I have 20 fps offhand sword and a 26 dagger, if I have sword apex which one should I choose
Dps*
royal wind
afaik instant poison (which im using for leveling) is normalized anyways right?
deciding between outlaw sabre (18.9 dps and +15 AP) or Swinetusk Shank (23 DPS dagger with 6 stam/4spirit)
in offhand
plucky nymph
Tanks holding their tanking hostage for righteous orbs O _O cancer.
wraith parcel
There can be lots of drops
plucky nymph
Like healers don't need +55 healing > _>
wraith parcel
2-3 is standard
wraith parcel
Most runs i've done i've gotten 2
plucky nymph
etc.
hi I am the tank
need 1 orb please
For an enchant, har har har.
Like this is balanced, in any way.
fair carbon
I gotta farm Crusaaaaaaaaaaaaaader 
wraith parcel
Idk i dont think its weird to reserve the orbs if you need nothing else from the dungeon
plucky nymph
Dunno about this tank, that's just his demand.
But now that the healer has left, he still won't join the group.
Sooo... cunt.
wraith parcel
Its a way of farming gold, since tanks/heals cant farm as good as dps
plucky nymph
Other than being auto-invites to every group.
Better leverage my privilege..
Better start The Union of Tanking and make demands.
waow
nowai
image just get Striking at this rate > _>
Fuck even bothering with this cabal.
wraith parcel
Just farm gold and buy the orbs from AH
plucky nymph
Still need mount, and striking is effectively tied without having to farm shit.
Probably more expensive, though I haven't looked.
plucky nymph
Solution to tanks demanding Orbs, druids :3
raven snow
@gritty goblet seal fate..... i saw that is the only viable for pve
gritty goblet
@raven snow seal fate is only viable when you have >30% crit, and that's only possible in later phases. Otherwise, you don't go deep assa save for a couple of essential talents like lethality, imp snd, relentless
your options are combat swords/ combat daggers atm.
exotic trellis
So would y’all give CHT to a huntard or to a rogue wanting to go daggers
tough pilot
Id give it to whoever earned it through the loot system implemented in that guild beforehand 🙂
our opinions in here arent gonna change the way your guild handles loot, thats why its important to make sure you know the loot system in place before joining a guild. if it was a pug run, then..not sure you have any right to complain since well, its a pug run.
exotic trellis
Well considering how I don’t have a guild currently
gritty goblet
i'd prioritise dagger rogues obviously?
exotic trellis
And I’m probably gonna be pugging all my MC/Ony clears until my actual guild actually gets off their fucking asses and levels
tough pilot
Well if it was a pug run, then its free for all majority of the time.
Thats why id never pug in classic wow raids in first place. just seems like a nightmare.
Cant expect pug groups to have legit loot prios. Majority in there probably care less about the man next to them and just want loot for themselves.
exotic trellis
Not an ACTUAL dagger rogue (as in, has heartseeker and specced daggers in that raid), a rogue wanting to go daggers but waiting for CHT/perditions but they’re playing swords first
tough pilot
I mean obviously its more valuable on the rogue.
Dont think anyone can logically disagree there.
But its a pug raid, so... if hunter wanted it..
and won the roll? then its his.
exotic trellis
Ya could just tell him to fuck off and play swords
tough pilot
assuming it was won through roll and not loot council (since who loot councils in pug raid)
exotic trellis
Nah not in a pug, pug is personal loot 0.5
Wait what’s the drop rate on heartseeker?
tough pilot
heartseeker is BOE created by BS's i thought?
yea its BOE
unless youre asking whats the pattern drop %, then idk
tough pilot
nope
just matter of getting the mats and finding someone with the pattern
think mats will def be costly.
Especially with Arcanite bar prices already soaring by the second
exotic trellis
Dagger rogue looks so fucking costly compared to swords
All the good daggers are BOEs
tough pilot
Yup def a pretty penny
low echo
Hey classic fellas! Is there someone who can give an advice for pve leveling build. It's my second rogue on classic. Currently 31 and I'm tired of using "classic" combat-swords build for 9999th time and looking for something else that will be viable as combat-swords. What about hemo sword build? The idea of using garrote+rupture in pve looks decent, imho.
Something like that? https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/02-005055010005015-450050100330001
Any opinions?
fair carbon
Relying on bleeds is going to be an extreme hinderance to your leveling speed
Many enemies are completely immune to bleed effects
red badger
How much hit do you need on items to be hit capped?
exotic trellis
9% is the soft cap
with weapon expertise(305 weapon skill), that lowers down to 6%
red badger
But from items themselves, how much hit do you need? I'm looking at gear planners and there's only 2 items with 1% hit and it's saying its 9% hit, so I'm confused
exotic trellis
Devilsaur set has 2% hit on it
vocal hornet
Devilsaur 2piece bonus. Ring off princess
exotic trellis
Truestrike has 2% hit too
dusk crystal
you only need 1% from gear assuming you play the norm spec
5% from talents with expertise
exotic trellis
neat sun
Well, I accidently made 30g flipping an Assassination blade.. lol
unkempt cove
Sword of omen over vanquishers sword in offhand because of speed?
sharp grotto
Completely imho
exotic trellis
I forgot that precision existed.
tough pilot
@low echo Nothing is as viable as combat swords. hence why its been the go to cookie cutter build for 15 years now. Like stated already, designing a leveling build around bleeds isnt very smart. At the end of the day, everything has been thought of and tested. If you wanna level a different talent set up, go for it, but if you're expecting it to be 'as viable as combat-swords' then you're gonna have a bad time.
If you wanna be unique go for it, but just know its gonna be slower.
hidden basin
hey guys, is the embrace of the lycan from ZF worth farming?
i'm lvl 49 rogue and wondering whether farming it is good or just lvl up to 60 and get something better
tough pilot
I wouldn't farm it no. I wouldn't worry about farming items until you get to your actual BiS gear.
And if you don't know what our bis gear is just check the pins.
just keep leveling
hidden basin
Yeah makes a lot of sense. I just thought asking whether it's like second best before getting the BiS gear.
But you make a good point
tough pilot
If its not bis it doesn't really matter.
unless you wanna make your leveling speed 1% faster
just a time dump
get to 60 and worry bout gear then
hidden basin
yeah that's true, i guess a green item that you get from a quest at lvl 55 can't be that much worse than embrace of the lycan lol
when it comes to just playing efficiently untill you get the patch which is BiS
still haven
Is there a good off hand to thrash blade at level 50?
or should I just use my vanq sword?
pallid pivot
Anyone know if shadowpanther's sword OH take into account sword spec
the dps averages, I have bonescraper vs dal'rends OH
tropic karma
@still haven look for hanzo sword from AH.
crude robin
what's better? 6set of shadowcraft armor (with devilsaur set) or using mask of the unforgiven + truestrike shoulders?
plucky nymph
6pc+Devilsaur
But not by much.
It's like, 30agi worth of weight.
Even less actual DPS lost.
crude robin
tyvm
willow kayak
At what point is agility better than attack power?
is there a certain rule to go by?
plucky nymph
So, we can look at weighting to determine this without having to do MUCH math.
these are tied
Scout's Medallion ends up being 15 Attack Power & .5% Critical Strike Chance.
So if either item had even 1STR it would be better.
Let alone another point of AGI.
eg, AP : AGI is 2 : 1
versed cedar
wut ? we only need 1% of +hit? so way is everywhere in the pre raid bis lists, so much +hit considered ?
tame berry
The 1% +hit is for your yellow hits. Autos still require more hit since we're duel wielding.
cosmic surge
Hey, are there any sword progression tables for sword rogue I could find ? Struggling with leveling a bit on 29
shadow tapir
shadowpanther.net leveling tips has a small list
tame geyser
@cosmic surge IIRC Cruel barb, Gnomer sword ~30, Sword of serenity 36, Vanquisher 39
Found a progression document I used
Shadowpanthers list also includes maces though
dusk crystal
@tame berry yes but that's not how the bis list is made, it assumes we need 9% I'm quite sure
hit isn't as good for rogues as its for fury warriors , after yellow cap
Wowhead quide has it wrong too
tame berry
Ofc the 9% yellow hit cap is a must. But hit doesn't turn awful after that. Because alot of our damage is autos.
spark raptor
Rogue is the class that in general benefits the most from excess hit. Fury hit can be wasted if you have enough crit/ap (their mainhand is "hitcapped" easily with heroic strike). Thats a high gear problem tho i guess
dusk crystal
yellow hit cap is super easy to get, after that id stack crit as it works for both white and yellow attacks
tame berry
I didn't say that you should value hit higher than crit after you've hit yellow hit cap. Just saying it still has a value.
dusk crystal
ofc, it's good still
spark raptor
If youre not hardcore, yes, crit>hit after softcap
exotic trellis
Fuuuuu I wanna do the 60 stuff but when I have to catch up on an alt to his level
When he’s 25 and I start from scratch
Kinda hard
versed cedar
@spark raptor and if youre hardcore ? whats then the way to go ?
gritty goblet
pretty sure gettin 9% doesn't hurt, aren't white hits our main source?
spark raptor
If youre playing with max buffs you get to 45%ish crit, which at low hitrating exceeds critcap by far. At that point you dont gain any autoattack dmg from crit, because all your autoattacks that arent glancing are critting already. So at that point, by adding hit you also allow that hit to be a crit if your critchance is that high
@versed cedar
So in a massively buffed environment you want hit. Though its harder to get that in classic than on private servers. I think its currently not an issue tho (not enough gear, buffs available)
versed cedar
ah ok 🙂
spark raptor
All assuming lvl 63 target
dusk crystal
@gritty goblet you gain that by 5/5 precision and 2/2 weapon expertise with 1% hit from gear assuming non human
gritty goblet
ah i misunderstood then, i thought you only get 6% from those
but i'm pepega
so 5 wep skill= 1.5% hit?
dusk crystal
2% apparently, there is explanation in the classic rogue discord
gritty goblet
guess i'll have to join it
spark raptor
Ah something else to note regarding stat prio, if your fights are extremely short (~20s) just stack crit/ap
neat sun
So .. Have we found a 35-50g farm for rogues yet? The BRD farm isn't nearly as good on Classic as it was on private servers.
plucky nymph
Dunno, might just farm Devilsaur > _>
plucky nymph
non-tyrants should be fine.
If nothing else just get a buddy and split it, still worth.
plucky nymph
bracers are too expensive on Stalagg
neat sun
Picked mine up for 35g
plucky nymph
Yeah that's too much, IMO.
neat sun
Even with skinning I can make that back in an hour
plucky nymph
Ye.
neat sun
That's a single run of Scholo
plucky nymph
atm I just have other, way more important things to put gold into, so it's too much.
Once the mount is done though > _> wooboi.
plucky nymph
Yarp.
I am like, 300g off, I think.
and have run 3 dungeons @ 60 so I am nooooot stressing.
neat sun
nice
I got super lucky... I went balls deep into LW day one and made a killing off of it.
plucky nymph
Dope.
neat sun
All of the markets dried up, so now I just vendor all of my leather
plucky nymph
Yep.
plucky nymph
Dunno the turnover for Runecloth yet so it's probably still worth bandaging it all.
neat sun
I grinded out like 1500 Indendosaurs and made great money off of that.
neat sun
That was a good 8-12s a kill
drowsy phoenix
how much is rugged leather going for on your AHs?
plucky nymph
more ez money
drowsy phoenix
bc im at 200 gold and still just vendoring all my skins
plucky nymph
7s each
drowsy phoenix
are chimaera and warbear worth significantly more?
plucky nymph
warbear is 20s
drowsy phoenix
because what im gonna be doing in the not-too-distant future is grind saber trainers rep
plucky nymph
Chimera is 14/15
plucky nymph
ohnoooo
neat sun
I think rugged leather is like 12s per on my server? Haven't checked in a while - I'm only 52 so I don't get a ton of it.
plucky nymph
Nah
shadow tapir
Pretty neat
shadow tapir
That or hand of Antusul atm, but Thrash blade soon anyway
plucky nymph
itsTheMoneyBag!!
vocal hornet
I feel, I missed some opportunity to make bank. A poory yet again.
at least I wont be respeccing a lot. (please god dont respec druid)
plucky nymph
soFastO_O
shadow tapir
Extremely inflated with the epic though
Worth a try
and coffer keys are going for 1g on my server so
noble sonnet
I hate clickbaity shit. Nothing wrong with talking about a farms potential gold /hour, but at least discuss it where you're likely to see no random BOE blue / epic drop
tough pilot
Yup click bait shit gets old fast.
neat sun
Sure, all of the titles are clickbaity
And they are all super RNG
But he literally calculates what he got without the RNG at the end ~40g an hour
wraith parcel
That calculation is also done without factoring in the costs of buying the keys
dry birch
xD
gentle walrus
and worst sells gray items form silvers instead of teh staff for gold in npc
dry birch
who else is scared of downloading that mediafire-shared xls going around Bloodmoon made?
shadow tapir
Kinda but so many people have used ot
dry birch
apprently you have to use WPS office for it to work properly (macros)? also sketchy
drowsy phoenix
what exactly does this file do?
dry birch
still haven't seen it, but apparently a fairly dynamic spreadsheet with ep values
vocal hornet
Yeah. Not doing that.
vocal hornet
Droooood
broken pollen
That shit doesn't work on many servers. keys are 1g+
drowsy phoenix
sounds like I could be making money off of keys
rugged leather going for minimum 10s on my server
fair carbon
There are so many coffer keys on Herod its insane
drowsy phoenix
chillwind meat drop rate so low you'd think I was after the leather
it's a nice touch but this is going to take more time than camping an NPC for bloodsail rep
spring berry
debating blacksmithing vs engineering - any reason one would be a clear winner?
noble sonnet
bombs
spring berry
they're that good? 😮
noble sonnet
sure
drowsy phoenix
arcane bomb
spring berry
holy... that seems strong
unkempt cove
@spring berry engineering is necessary if doing PvP end game.
Otherwise bs if you just want to farm gold
spring berry
ah, interesting. thanks! was just looking to be as self sufficient as possible but it seems like engi has a lot of perks for leveling
drowsy phoenix
got the pattern for superior stam
cursive ridge
tough pilot
blood fang helm pog
shadow tapir
nice!
red badger
thrash blade + sword of omen, or thrash blade + vanquishers sword?
versed cedar
trash + omen
red badger
because of speed?
signal ember
isn't vanq 2.2?
versed cedar
yes
signal ember
and so is omen?
versed cedar
1.9
signal ember
Umm, I'm pretty sure its 2.2
versed cedar
it isnt ....
signal ember
I'm using vanq/omen atm
versed cedar
that combination is fine @signal ember but if you get a thrashblade, you will switch out vanq
versed cedar
yeah, but alliance is not sword of omen
red badger
yeah that's not the same thing, you're wrong
versed cedar
so we are not both right 😉
if you are alliance and have to choose between vanq and serenity, I would pick vanq
ah
now its right ^^
signal ember
wait, I swear the god I had omen. Man I rolled alliance like back in 2006 and switched to horde a year later.
old stone
Double hunter helm from onyxia 
everything takes a long ass time, we only had majordomo, rag and onyxia to kill and the raid took 2 hours
dusk crystal
that's slow XD
shadow tapir
Are gold bid raids a thing again?
Reminded me, thats how I got my DS helm on my hunter years ago
shadow tapir
Interesting
dusk crystal
not surprised
raven snow
Hey anyone know if Barman Shanker dagger take debuff slot in raid or no ? someone told me it doesn't but i want to make sure
exotic trellis
It does on pservers
opal wagon
Good addons for classic? 😄
plucky nymph
Crit, AP, Agility Comparative Values so I can search for them later.
20AP = 1% Crit
2AP = 1 Agility
Pretty sure its not 20 agi per crit for rogues
plucky nymph
It's 29.
wraith parcel
Oh nvm yeah
plucky nymph
Those are comparative values.
wraith parcel
Thats not what you wrote about nvm
plucky nymph
Betterer.
shadow tapir
Whos idea was it to put Camp Mojache in the middle of the road!?
plucky nymph
Well... hmmm... cows.
shadow tapir
Of course the cows
wraith parcel
World buffs are pretty annoying to get, but ngl its pretty cool to run as a 40 man group across burning steppes
plucky nymph
Ye
marble dune
raiding in classic is aids
waiting 15-20 min inbetween pulls for buffs
why did i do this to myself
marble dune
or 30 mins + if there is no ankh/ss available
or + 45min if trash respawns and there was no ankh/ss available
tough pilot
Then again I guess we can't all roll with private server vets. But...
marble dune
wipes are gonna happen regardless of guild
tough pilot
Ever since first raid night for my guild on bigglesworth we've not wiped more than maybe 3 times in total.
So no I'd say it depends on guild.
fallen panther
fallen panther
Dem corpse runs tho 
tough pilot
Sure but we're talking current content are we not.
marble dune
yes but this is a classic problem in general
tough pilot
Fair enough
marble dune
just bc you dont wipe in mc doesnt mean this wont be an issue in later tiers
esp aq40 where it is the most dreadful
tough pilot
Oh I agree. It will def pick up in difficulty and I'm looking forward to it.
I want the game to become slower and harder.
marble dune
its difficult in a different way
fallen panther
Annoying is the word you are looking for 
tough pilot
Yeah true annoying is better word lmao
marble dune
theres the "super good player, optimal dps, avoiding all mechanics" type difficult
and the "super fucking tedious" difficult
fallen panther
Oh tedious is even better
That's what it is
Kudos to people who actually enjoy it, ngl
marble dune
mechanics in classic isnt "difficult, but the tedious farm for consumables/buffs you need to do for each boss is "difficult"
shadow tapir
Realism!
plucky nymph
It might be failures, actually.
fallen panther
I just can't dude 
The fact that I did all this already in vanilla doesn't help at all either
shadow tapir
if you #showtooltip 17 it will show which weapon is equipped!
I had to to remember to switch off carrot lol
shadow tapir
true
main igloo
i've been looking at some different bis guides for classic (pre-raid) why does they all say you need so much hit? isnt 9% cap?
shadow tapir
For yellows yes
plucky nymph
😐
marble dune
the pre raid bis is stupid imo
as a combat rogue, you only need 1% hit on gear to hit the yellow cap
the pre raid bis list shows best pieces for each individual slot, but you only need 1% hit on gear for yellows
so instead the list is telling you to get 7-8% on top of your talents
plucky nymph
Hit is still better for us than pretty much anyone else.
shadow tapir
Well most items arent giving you ONLY hit either
marble dune
hit is more important for fury warriors than us
they generate fury off hits, we dont
plucky nymph
2 classes out of 10 is still pretty much everyone
marble dune
well if you had a choice of 2% hit or 2% crit
after being yellow capped
go for the 2% crit
but bis list says stack hit to the moon which is fucking luls
marble dune
the whole is less than the sum of its parts, when it comes to HIT stacking
main igloo
thanks for the answers
marble dune
but hey, the more misinformed the public is, the better i look in logs/meters 😄
shadow tapir
Same guys who have the hit calculations in the disc have a bis list with hit items
Pretty sure its just those are good items, hit cap or not
plucky nymph
Yeah a decent amount are, but there's some margins that are tiny that you can make ground on.
but it's like 20agi total or something
marble dune
which one
shadow tapir
Helm of unforgiven, 2 hit 1 crit no AP
Truestrike shoulders were the 2 hit 24 AP
But maybe theres no competitors idk
marble dune
eye of rend is 2 crit 13 str
shadow tapir
Ill prolly just ask them, doenst make sense
plucky nymph
They're about equal weight.
marble dune
plenty of bosses where more stam = more dps
shadow tapir
ah ok
marble dune
where u get 20 agi is 40 ap
plucky nymph
The stat weight listing from a trillion years ago that hasn't been debunked.
main igloo
20 agi is 20 ap and 0,69 crit
marble dune
just because its on a screenshot doesnt mean its legit lol
plucky nymph
...
shadow tapir
And the site explains how they come up with their weights, been around for a long time
Possible its wrong but idk any better info honesqtly
plucky nymph
Written a little stupid but, whatever.
marble dune
So... is this more of a "rule of thumb" type calculation
or is there actual math behind it
clever kayak
why did no one make simc or even pawn style weightings and we have to go off 15 year old guesswork lol
marble dune
so apparently all these spreadsheets calculations are just base off assumptions that 1 agi = 2 ap, 20 ap = 1% crit
thankfully gear after phase 1 are obvious upgrades and these spreadsheets arent needed
clever kayak
i dont know why i havent been pickpocketing every mob in the pack in SM
so much extra money
silent burrow
Does anyone have a WA for tracking when you have double crusader enchant procs up?
Tried to find one, but no luck.
marble dune
ya its usually a good idea to pick pocket EVERYTHING
it also gives the tank time to get aggro
while you pick pocket
major healing pots can drop off boxes from lvl 55+ elites in dungeons
sell for 1-2g on ah
stone kraken
does anyone have an energy tick addon thats working?
main igloo
i dont think any of them is working since energy is bugged atm
stone kraken
Oof okay it’s just annoying trying to gauge when I’ll get my ticks during my rotation
clever kayak
energy is bugged?
errant timber
i have a weakaura that was working fine
sharp grotto
How is energy bugged?
vocal hornet
@stone kraken the mizerok wa kit has energy ticks. I like it so I dont have to spam SS all the time. Its not coming back any faster.
stone kraken
Could I get a link to that also what else does it do
vocal hornet
willow kayak
How much of a difference does riposte make in leveling?
exotic trellis
very much so
vocal hornet
@willow kayak it procs often and hits really hard. and also disarms a target.
since we are just face punching when questing, it procs a lot. This is not cheapshot backstab gouge backstab shenanigans. SLICE THEM IN THE FACE.
noble sonnet
Is Weakauras like that Mizerok's thingy something that's easy to change if I'm playing Combat for pve and then something like Assassination for pvp?
sand cipher
does anyone else cast feint while moving out for wrath of ragnaros?
plucky nymph
@noble sonnet It's been updated to include Cold Blood, Preparation, and Premeditation now.
noble sonnet
awesome!
Is this something I can use with Elvui or would I just have to use this? Haven't downloaded it yet or started messing with it. Kinda wanted to wait till I hit 60 and have all my skills and whatnot on my bars.
vocal hornet
Weakaura is pretty easy to adjust. Just import it. and bask in the glory that is SND uptime.
plucky nymph
It's ACTUALLY been updated now O _O had old triggers in there that made no sense.
The things you don't have shouldn't load.
gritty goblet
O_o
gritty goblet
use mizeroks wa ppl, he needs to eat too
fair carbon
Yeah he needs to eat in his quarter of a million dollar car 
vocal hornet
@wraith parcel are you healing with HotW or pure bear business?
vocal hornet
do you have to farm up the stupid Gnomer mace for tanking? or do you have that warden staff already
plucky nymph
There's some MH/OH stat options as well.
vocal hornet
I havent spent a lot of time in their spreadsheet, but its pretty good.
just hesitant to flip flop my spec into heavy healing. cause its nice to have cat talents.
aside, new snippy tool is pretty nice. pastes directly from the snip
plucky nymph
themostimportantWA
exotic trellis
F I V E S U N D E R S
idle cedar
facestab spec
plucky nymph
shadow tapir
nice!
maiden bone
Anyone had the problem of lv50 class quest not popping up from trainer?
plucky nymph
No, it doesn't exist.
maiden bone
Or is it not in p1
plucky nymph
A Simple Request isn't a quest atm.
plucky nymph
Bindiiiiiiiiings?
dry birch
not atm @hidden basin, later sadly
hidden basin
damn, thanks for info
hushed laurel
ive heard both P2 and P5 for the class quests
havent bothered to look into which is correct
dry birch
i'm really still not sold on batching being a good thing to retain
plucky nymph
@dry birch We've spell batching on Retail as well, it's just like 3000% faster.
exotic trellis
its not
its legit like the pserver #nochanges thing that people say is good because you can gouge a blink or whatever
idk why you'd account for shitty hardware in a modern game
plucky nymph
There's also a lot of client/server strain the faster batching causes.
eg. wPVP doesn't work on Retail because of it.
That and the 4 trillion compounding buffs that have to be cross-checked.
noble sonnet
So how important are swing timers? Can someone explain why they are something that people are using or discussing?
plucky nymph
Not
They're under a .5% gain but also assume you don't move and can use the timer correctly.
noble sonnet
Yeah a swing timer will probably just be more clutter than I won’t use or won’t use properly.
plucky nymph
They're almost entirely useless.
exotic trellis
for rogues at least
noble sonnet
The purpose there would be to use an ability immediately after a swing so that you don't lose out on an autoattack?
sharp grotto
@exotic trellis you cant really have both
exotic trellis
lemme look at a combat daggers spec
noble sonnet
Yo Mizerok, this WA stuff is awesome. I edited the font style of the poison indicator though 🙂
exotic trellis
is opportunity too much to give up
exotic trellis
how much of your damage is AAs though
plucky nymph
@noble sonnet Yeah that stuff is all up to you, the font has to default to something.
exotic trellis
its still 40-50% isnt it
plucky nymph
Yeah it's a lot for swords/daggers/etc.
exotic trellis
Id give up relentless and ruthlessness then
noble sonnet
Damn, shame there doesn't seem to be a good alternative to Blizzard's standard scrolling combat text. Their built-in version is ass.
plucky nymph
They don't really show much important data to begin with.
noble sonnet
Well I'd like to know how much damage I'm taking per hit. Really the only thing I wish I could do with their built-in SCT is the ability to move it where I want.