@neat sun same rip
#classic-discussion
neat sun
eww
why would you ever play a druid?
You suck at everything except for being a mana bitch
marble dune
bc youre a wsg flag carrying god
cerulean idol
plucky nymph
Should probably just wait until the servers fill a little.
neat sun
It was back at high
plucky nymph
mmm
hidden basin
with sword spec do you only need to watch out for main hand or off hand as well?
it was only main hand weapon swing timer important right?
wind lantern
Quicker offhand is good because you start the mainn hand swing quicker I believe
exotic trellis
yea you dont need to give a shit about the offhand swing timer
plucky nymph
wut
exotic trellis
cuz it doesnt reset with any of your abilities
ocean herald
Hello, has anyone done the ravenholdt questline for sunken temple?
exotic trellis
is RFK actually worth running....
marble dune
all dungeons are worth running as long as it doesnt take u 30 mins to run there
exotic trellis
nah like: yea sure imma have three quests for it buuuut
desert nexus
does ELVUI work in classic? - can i drag and drop my folder from retial to classic and copy all profiles and what not?
exotic trellis
doesnt look like there's any real good loot from it...
exotic trellis
Well it has sword of serenity.
well considering how I found a group already probably worth doing.
desert nexus
does ELVUI work in classic? - can i drag and drop my folder from retial to classic and copy all profiles across?
marble dune
dont think so
exotic trellis
i know you can download the elvui classic version and then use exporting and importing profiles
marble dune
theres an classic vresion of elvui
exotic trellis
idk if you can just drag and drop
marble dune
theres diff options in classic version vs retail
marble dune
i havent tried
civic crest
I’m pretty sure you can’t
limber hamlet
@marble dune SM has the quest from varimathras that gives a pretty decent sword, sword of omen
desert nexus
quick question - IDK about vanilla armour specs, do rouges still get bonus stats from using leather? should i run this cloth helm over the leather one as better stats?
orchid saffron
Came here to ask about a specific pvp scenario: Should you ever use Ghostly Strike vs Warriors? (non-hemo build)
hidden basin
Can i go library lvl 34?
rapid night
Re: ElvUI discussion - I used my retail profile for Classic and it was mostly fine. Tweaked a couple things - but mostly worked out of the box.
shadow tapir
There are no armor bonuses for wearing your type @desert nexus
errant timber
yea same @ elv
and i only tweaked those bc of limited classic functionality of those
spot the firebloom
rapid night
Anyone know a ballpark of what the threshold is for DPS to outweigh weapon speed for OH? (Combat Swords)
(Example OH choice: 30dps 2.2 speed vs 20dps 1.5 speed)
clever kayak
mfw wingblade is a "main hand" not a one hand and i cant use it with stinging viper
now i gotta choose between stinging viper/harpy skinner or wingblade/stinging viper bleh
bigger MH or 2 fat weapons
wheres my shadowcraft
shadow tapir
biggest MH and fastest OH
clever kayak
even if you lose -2 agility and -5 weapon dps on OH?
rapid night
Right, but surely there's a threshold of when the DPS or stats of an OH will outweigh the speed benefits - just curious what that is.
shadow tapir
Im sure there is a point, should be able to do some napkin math adn figure it out
fair carbon
I was rocking Wing Sting
For a while
Until I got my Sword of Omen actually
And then Vanquisher’s Sword in the same level
Well nah wait
I had Outlaw Sabre before then
shadow tapir
I hate dots because of gouge so Id just go harpy skinner anyway honestly
fair carbon
I had Wing Sting, then Outlaw Sting, then Vanquisher and Omen
shadow tapir
I have cruel barb, which was great, but its starting to fall behind a bit
fair carbon
I mean I’m level 47 now
clever kayak
then i also have
fair carbon
Still using Vanquisher and Omen right now
clever kayak
so pick 2/3 it feels bad either way
fair carbon
Until I get Thrash Blade in a level
shadow tapir
Thrash blade is the Mara one right
fair carbon
Yes
shadow tapir
yeeeah nice
fair carbon
Thing’s nuts
clever kayak
do you guys use poisons while questing, they cost money right?
im just doing the quest now
shadow tapir
yeah but theyre pretty powerful
drowsy phoenix
if you're fighting certain things dont bother putting em on though
water elementals dont care for poisons
shadow tapir
I feel like you need to go Viper MH while leveling
ITs like 10+ damage an SS youre losing by not
shadow tapir
Well, 9 or so per SS
clever kayak
yeah i was seeing some juicy 100 crits
why is "main hand" even a weapon class, shouldnt it be 1 hand or 2 hand -_-
shadow tapir
I believe there are Off hand weapons too
fair carbon
Yes
exotic trellis
at what level did yall go get your sword of serenity/omen?
delicate stone
You can get the quest started as early as 34 or 35 iirc
clever kayak
what about the outlaw sabre? looks like no level req on the sword
finite schooner
anyone have a link to a guide that says what to buy from the rogue trainer
clever kayak
yeah. anything thats useful
depends on your build, but dont rank up gouge till lategame for example, all it adds is 10 dmg
but garotte? is nice
shadow tapir
Dont buy rupture or expose armor
fair carbon
I didn’t buy my other poisons aside from Instant
shadow tapir
No point in garrote after cheap shot either
shadow tapir
Feint not needed if not grouping a lot
There is a spreadsheet but I cant find it unfortunately
loud tree
except gouge you don't need to
or kick
i held off on sap even
some things are preference kinda
shadow tapir
Im getting in so many fights while leveling Im considering swapping to a better pvp build lol
loud tree
those gouge crits though
shadow tapir
Nice when it works yeah lol
fair carbon
Oh your attack got parried? Such a shame.... guess you won’t be attacking for 6 seconds either
Unless they’re a memelord and throw weapon chains on everything
shadow tapir
lol
calm sluice
what addons should i get
unique oriole
some of them but not all of them
calm sluice
which
loud tree
peggle
cast bar is good, energy tick, swing timer, stun timer. those should be good to start with
maybe a quest addon
vocal hornet
I use auto pilot and questie.
loud tree
ya, i just been soloing with questie
vocal hornet
God forbid I read quest text.
And I hate clicking accept. Bleh
Bis macro is /tar (name) /cast ss and /cast throw knife
I keep that up to date. Tag all the shit.
Scroll up is the knife one. Scroll down is SS. So I just spam back/forth and bingo.
exotic trellis
you dont carry a bow or gun with ammo on you?
exotic trellis
assblast
vocal hornet
It's really good on my druid. r1 moonfire. Bing.
Doesn't hurt to have 13ms tho.
Lots of sad people on our full server though. 8min spawns are dumb.
fair carbon
Peggle is BiS Addon
exotic trellis
wow theres a level 60 dwarf priest sitting on his white ram in ironforge what a tryhard
fair carbon
We’ve had 6 60s so far in our guild
First one was a warrior if you’d believe it. What a legend
sharp grotto
so if we have a sham... do we only put poison on our OH?
fair carbon
Yes
sharp grotto
thtought so
fair carbon
Because WF takes the slot in MH
sharp grotto
yea was just making sure
subtle socket
Quick question: Does Riposte proc Sword Specialization?
desert nexus
whats the quickest way to make 100g im at lvl 38 with 40g
drowsy phoenix
with riposte I just hit it asap so I can get the CD going
and i believe it does work with sword spec
clever kayak
can anyone explain what is the point of a swing timer when we dont have energy procs based on swings?
or anything the procs off swings really
shadow tapir
Useful for Sword spec talent becasue the procs reset swing timer
So you dont want to hit SS when youre .2secs away from an auto attack then have sword spec proc and reset the swing back to the full time
fair carbon
Yeah clipping your autos is very bad
shadow tapir
Not much of a reason if youre not specced into that tho
fair carbon
Right
clever kayak
cool, does SS reset swing timer?
void meteor
lmao rng hates me
did 15 total mara runs, in which those 6 times the ring dropped, lost all of them
hidden basin
What makes a good cleave rogue while lvling? You use slice n dice up at all time when there are multiple targets?
That's what a 45 lvl troll rogue told me
He was looking for a ZF group and advertised himself as a good cleave rogue
errant timber
you only cleave with BF so
hidden basin
I asked him what makes a good cleave rogue and he said slice n dice at all times
hidden basin
he said you should not drop points eviscerate when cleaving
just slice n dice
on a boss in a lvling dungeon lets say cathedral, do you open up with slice n dice?
for example 2-3 points and slice n dice
then you refresh slice n dice and continue with eviscerate?
errant timber
realistically in dungeons nothing lasts long enough to keep snd up
shadow tapir
@clever kayak no
hidden basin
except bosses odowla?
shadow tapir
A good cleave rogue means BF and engineering bombs lol
hidden basin
yeah everything dies so fast
errant timber
you have reaaaallly slow cp generation
hidden basin
you are better off just duping in cp
and with a rank 1 snd it's useless i guess
so odowla lets say we attack 5 mobs and i use blade flurry
should i use slice n dice then or just dump cp into eviscerate?
vocal hornet
blade flurry is 2 mobs only
errant timber
id use my first couple of cp on it but after that nah
since i'll probably open with a cheap
hidden basin
after that just eviscerate?
ok got you
thanks
this is what i thought as well
but that troll rogue confused me
i know with the highest rank of snd in a raiding environment you keep snd up at all times
it's prio
but not in lvling dungeons lmao
shadow tapir
Is it important to go to ravenholdt asap?
marble dune
its also rare to build 4-5 combo on a mob in a dungeon before it dies
aside from your cheapshot opener
ive been snd-ing at 1-3 combo if a mob is bout to die and i will lose the combo points, im not sure if 1-3 cp evis is worth using, dont know the math to it
errant timber
yea same
i'd rather spend the cp than lose em
ill evi if it's a humanoid and is running tho
shadow tapir
Anyone know if you can do Badlands or Desolace at level 31?
Out of quests in Hillsbrad and Arathi that I can do and STV is just Horde infested
Velador its just strikes like SS
cursive ridge
Also I just got Blade Flurry. Should I start building Assa (Imp Eviscerate, etc) or keep pushing towards AR
shadow tapir
toward AR
cursive ridge
even for leveling?
shadow tapir
Take a look at that, I def would
AR is better than anything assassin is gonna give u
raven snow
can you not right click poisons off
marble dune
nop
desert nexus
mmmmmm im undead rouge - only rouge class quest i did was for poisons
any others i need to do?
lvl 39
plucky nymph
I bet there's a list in the pins
cursive ridge
Interesting that it leaves weapon spec at the very end, kinda pointless if the subject is leveling
interesting choices on the other stuff though
plucky nymph
o _O
clever kayak
when you get such a good weapon your SS does more dmg than your 4 cp evisc 🤔
north vapor
anyone know a good dagger pvp build with imp sprint and hemo
cursive ridge
why would one hemo with daggers
shadow tapir
Can go through more charges with faster attack speed too
Not sure if swords struggle to get through them or not
clever kayak
only oh
jade girder
ty
gloomy hawk
anyone know
addon that i could use tha t can show
combo points above mobs?
or above target
clever kayak
yes its called weakauras
you only need to show them on yourself as you cant stack them seperately on different mobs
yourself = current target cp
if you really want it on nameplates some nameplate addons have them like tidyplates or the elvui plates
north vapor
not rogue related really but my buddy just got a staff of jordan drop from one of the gorillas in stv how much do you guys think thats worth?
slender storm
Get an auctionhouse addon
TBH I would hold onto it until the economy grows enough to support 300g+ for it
shadow tapir
Anyone found any good ways to farm gold yet? Besides SM and skinning farms
plucky nymph
¯_(ツ)_/¯
plucky nymph
Epic prices are rising already > _>
marble dune
high prices on AH doesnt mean anybody is buying them
no one is gona spend 200g+ on a lvl 35 epic when they have to save for their lvl 40 mount
and then 1000g for the 60 mount
plucky nymph
Prices tend to go DOWN when people don't buy things, but it is still early.
marble dune
i got an epic yesterday, dazzling longsword
shit is trash
but if i list it for 1000g, doesnt mean its worth that much
drowsy phoenix
yeah but it does have an actual range you can list it at
and in time it will be bought for that price
marble dune
yea in time, like 6+ months away when ppl care bout twinking
no one is gonna overspend on a lvl 35 epic that theyre gonna replace in 10 lvls
and it cost 1-2g to list a lvl 35 epic on the AH
just for the deposit
which is alot for now
frosty rover
Not a good idea to run hemo and dagger
if you want to play hemo build with dagger, just find a good dagger, take Opportunity talent and use CB to open with Ambush into Gouge then swap to slow MH Weapon.
Backstab isn't that worth it to use without Seal fate anyway
You can still play the old 21/8/22 build but imo it's way better without hemo (the common 21/8/22 doesn't use Hemo)
sly valve
Is there a good macro for swapping my main hand to a dagger when I enter stealth?
frosty rover
I use that one :
/equipslot 16 <Name of slow MH>````
it's only 1 button for the swap in and swap backSo you can use
/cancelaura <name of mount>
/cast !Stealth````
but you'll have to get another macro to swap back on slow MHThanks
sly valve
I wonder if it's worth continuing to run VC for the sword. I've got everything else from there including one sword and I'm 22.
somber hawk
Is there a pre-raid bis list specifically for humans? Or doesnt it make a difference?
versed cedar
@sly valve VC?
plucky nymph
Deadmines
exotic trellis
Named VC after Vancleef
@sly valve it aint worth running for a 2nd copy
I ran it 6 times and didnt even see one drop.
daring thunder
calling it VC is heresy and should be criminalized
plucky nymph
and forever, because Dire Maul is DM.
daring thunder
deadmines is also DM. live with it
plucky nymph
Ye
daring thunder
DMN DNW
idk why people couldn't just use TDM for deadmines
why call it VC
sounds dumb
since its technically, "The Deadmines"
sly valve
I started in 05, and by then DM was out so I guess people started calling it VC then
raven snow
hello guys, i have a question..... is really really bad use sub spec for pve? i really dont like very much combat
north vapor
just got my thrash blade at 46 boys lets goo
loud tree
sub isn't as good as combat for sure, but play what you enjoy
loud tree
combat gonna benefit from windfury more
idk possibly
it'l be easier to compete as combat
somber hawk
warrior will be above us anyhow
loud tree
darn 2 min aoe 
exotic trellis
Wtf is that like for dungeons?
Why is rogue ranked so damn low
Ranking a fucking oomkin over any rogue spec
raven snow
i don't think that is right...... i can't find a more accurate ranking list
exotic trellis
For raiding on private servers when molten core is on farm, it goes like Warriors>rogues>mages>warlocks/hunters, and then idk exactly where the meme specs lie after that
I think feral is highest of the meme specs, maybe shadow
Although in classic with 1.12 talents and itemization mages can get like fucking 100 spellpower in pre raid gear or some crazy shit so they fucking dominate right now
errant timber
Yeah we're not so good in dungeons cause we have zero aoe without oil of immolation
exotic trellis
Blade flurry’s good in typical vanilla pulls of 2-3 mobs
But 2 minute cooldown is a yikes
Maybe sapper charges to help
raven snow
DM stands for Deadmines
"Dire Maul" is either one of these four options
DM:N
DM:E
DM:S
DM:W
Not hard
fossil steeple
except theres no dm south
wanton chasm
I'm getting more and more disappointed with the prehistoric design of rogues in Vanilla xD
Combo points are gone when you switch target :P
Energy Regenerates in Ticks of 20 :P
Kick costs energy!
And there is something called debuffslots xD
only 16 debuffs can be on a target at the same time :P
which mean there are debuffs who has prio.
Rupture, Garrote and Deadly poison are not one of those :P
wanton chasm
Farming mobs that drop items that sell for descent vendor price :P
Or gathering professions
obsidian jay
Probably not
versed cedar
@wanton chasm why are debuff slots a problem? garrote and rupture do not that much dmg. + u only use one poison as horde, cause you got a shaman in raid or dungeon group with windfury
if you play alliance go for double instant
or is there a rogue build that goes for rupture?
sharp grotto
I know combat is way better in dungeons and lvling but I just can’t wait to go pvp dagger spec lol
wanton chasm
Rupture does more damage than Eviscerate by default
Garrote is the ability to use on your opener
because it does more than sinister strike
Because of the debuff slots you cannot use vanish > garrote as dps cooldown and can't use rupture
which is a dps loss
desert atlas
Rupture falll off high gear lvl cause it cant crit right?
desert atlas
Not even sure if garrote is worth given how slow stealth speed is in vanilla
versed cedar
rupture and garrote cant crit
latent summit
so anyone know how to do this in either WA or TMW?
If an ability, say gouge or sprint, is either a) on cooldown or b) player is in combat: show the button/icon
versed cedar
add the button for the ability and then under the "load" tab, just check the situations when it should be shown
latent summit
that wont show it out of combat it it is still on cooldown though
which would be nicve
marble dune
@versed cedar there is a very limited amount of debuffed slots available on a boss, i dont remember the exact amount but maybe 30 slots? and there's 40 raid members, so... only important debuffs shold be applied, like curse of elements, sunder etc
weak dots like rupture/garrote/rend should not be applied
also warriors may be outdamaging rogues in phase 1, but we will start outscaling them in phase 2+ (in ST dmg), due to the bwl set for warriors being a tank set and there is a lack of dps gear for them in that tier unless they go for the r14 route
Rogues will the kings of ST dmg from BWL->AQ->Naxx
neon adder
@marble dune is it not 16 debuff slots? im not sure either
silver cove
yeah it's 16, was watching a guild do mc when i was bored and it was basically curses sunders 1 winters chill and like
2 spare slots
people unequipping trinkets that do damage cause it was capping slots etc
marble dune
some reason i remember that viral onyxia video where the raid leader was raging at everybody and calling for "MORE DOTS MORE DOTS MORE DOTS"
the one that goes "50 DKP MINUS!!!"
so he was completely wrong calling for more dots cos there is a debuff limit 🤔
marble dune
fbm?
hot kraken
feels bad man
vocal hornet
@silver cove yeah 8 debuffs was sad times.
proud quiver
would be grinding a good option for rogues ? Currently lvl 25. Or should I stick to quests?
versed cedar
@marble dune i know its 16 debuff slots. and rogue debuffs are not important for the raid, only for personal dmg, thats why we play without garrote, rupture and deadly poison in raid
marble dune
@proud quiver fuck questing imo, just grind dungeons all the way to 60
Classic questing wasn't designed around efficiency, one zone doesn't have enough quest to fill you in the entire level range (like retail does), you have to spend a ton of time running back and forth between zones just to turn in 1 quest
1 30 min dungeon run is worth 2 hrs of questing imo
hidden basin
Guzu says that the weapon swing timer is stupid and we don't have to use it, it's a very miniscule thing he says
He says all that hate seeing it should not use it
shadow tapir
Swing timer is pointless outside of sword spec and likely not a huge deal even with it yeah
marble dune
if i had to estimate... id say it affects like .5% of your dps
hidden basin
he just said it's not a neccessity, said the same thing about the energy recovery addon
exotic trellis
Ya know I feel like all of this shit about swing timers and energy tick addons and human racials and I’m sitting here like
All of this can be covered up by like one or two extra consumables
marble dune
this is the #1 rogue log for Rag.
39 SS cast + 7 evis cast. at 5% proc would be 2.3 procs over the fight
2.3 procs x 260 avg swing hit = 600 dmg
Assuming all your procs are wasted due to being casted at the end of the swing timer
600/52,500 (total dmg) = 1% difference
If you cast SS with no regard to swing timer, assume it waste 50% of the swings, so damage difference is .5%
exotic trellis
Soooo... less of a damage difference than the human racial
marble dune
imagine dying to a mechanic because your eyes are glued to the swing timer, which at most would provide a .5% dps increase
hushed laurel
@marble dune the moar dots thing is correct in the ony video. Its when ony flies into the air, making it hard for melee to hit her. Thus moar dots to bring her down to the ground.
Before that part, you hear him say that he wants to see 2 rows. So 2 rows of 8 dots
marble dune
loool
dry birch
the whole idea is to have a ui that gets you extremely comfortable with your swing timer, so when it matters you don’t have to tunnel vision it
dusk crystal
are logs in classic a thing lol
hushed laurel
Warcraft logs has a classic page iirc
And there were sites that did pserver logs as well
They aren't very exciting though XD
exotic trellis
As soon as someone releases a nice all in one weakaura for rogue with a swing timer I’ll play around it but for now
marble dune
does wf totem reset swings too?
hushed laurel
Yes
marble dune
might be worth it in that case then, wf proc chance is pretty high
would be 2% overall dps increase if wf is included
ornate jetty
I appreciate you dayvenie. Even tho imo optimizing dps is a waste of time for classic
hushed laurel
Naw, need to optimize the 2 rogues that go into BWL to disable suppression traps for the 34 warriors
ornate jetty
But thats just it. You nailed it in one. Optimizing dps isnt what will hold back a clear
Its the other shit that matters more
elfin belfry
So I am gonna have to grind mobs for gold before I hit 40. Is it worth picking up some good weapons for faster farming even though it will set me back like 15 gold?
ornate jetty
I wouldnt. Id just keep questing
hushed laurel
Try and get an RFD and SM clear in, sword of omens/serenity and vanquished sword are insane and easily doable pre 40
Also, if all you want is gold, if you're horde, the repeatable shellfish quest in shadowprey is mad cash if it's not being farmed by any people
sharp grotto
What quest is that lol? Can’t ever remember it
I need 35g in 1 lvl lol
LW drained me haha
hushed laurel
Its on the docks of shadowprey in desolace. You dive underwater and loot the cages down there, every 5 shellfish turns into 55 silver. Tales about 3-4 minutes each time, but you can collect as many as you want before you turn in
If you're skinning, it might still be more cash than yetis, but I'm not sure
Helps to be UD since your underwater
marble dune
took a look at all the top warrior logs
majority of them are wearing leather + DW swords
rip to us
hushed laurel
Yah, swords rogues compete with warriors for weapons, its kinda why dagger rogues are poplar. No one wants shanks
marble dune
im surprised there isnt sims for classic
fair carbon
The numbers are so small its easy to see what's an upgrade and what's not
Doesn't really feel mandatory
ruby bridge
i am not, a lot of things for classic would need to be implemented/changed and the rotation is often simple enough to make simcraft overkill
there was interesst in doing classic simc, but noone wanted to do the implementation iirc
plucky nymph
Yeah I've my RAWR fork from forever ago but it's basically just stat weights with a GUI.
ruby bridge
i think the simc project started in cata
plucky nymph
Sounds right.
hushed laurel
I used the simcraft standalone in wotlk iirc, but laaate wotlk
stray whale
When is shadowcraft gonna make a comeback with classic
plucky nymph
Mmm, I might implement some mana efficiency math into RAWR in regards to downranking o _O
ruby bridge
i am fairly sure there is no team for that
plucky nymph
That's just WebAPI RAWR /shrug
stray whale
I think there’s a market for it man
stray whale
The raidbots guy ain’t doin it..
exotic trellis
Wait is Fuu the one that did all the work for simc like APLs and shit?
ruby bridge
yes i am one of the 3 ppl that work actively on simc apl
stray whale
We love fuu
plucky nymph
"love"
ruby bridge
i and mystler work on rogue only, koji does dh too and iirc helps infrequently with some others
exotic trellis
Oh nice
ruby bridge
haha ^^ ye i did not only make friends 😛
plucky nymph
But yeah thankfully Vanilla doesn't have many substats and you can just use your noodle, regardless of how smooth it might be, to do the math.
ruby bridge
i rly like that wcl added classic
plucky nymph
For archiving and nothing else it's nice.
My favorite thing is looking at damage vectors and being like...
yeah I hit frostbolt a lot.
a lot.
plucky nymph
Look we just need some more crit and have a huge reliance on weapons.
and tier.
I imagine most people aren't doing enough damage to strip threat yet.
ruby bridge
i think it matters less in classic
given firstkills where done with players who where not even 60
plucky nymph
Course.
plucky nymph
I am not, no.
hushed laurel
Dps matters so little until naxx. As long as you have a few people doing something, you'll kill the boss before the healers run oom as long as they aren't wasting mana
plucky nymph
I've a brain and Rogue is braindead.
ruby bridge
not sure about the difficultly curve tho, but i dont think there will be a big change with release of the oter tiers
plucky nymph
No reason to other than if there's some math on Rupture multi-dotting.
ruby bridge
so, you play druid?
hushed laurel
There is a difficulty curve spike at the end of AQ 40 with twin emps and cthun, but that's it
ruby bridge
feral def. seems like one of the more complex classes
vocal hornet
the 2h mace from gnomer blows my mind.
hushed laurel
Lots of complexity in farming gnomer for sure. The saddest life
vocal hornet
yeah
hushed laurel
Its the worst
hushed laurel
One of my druids is decided to go feral, he promised to farm it when we hit AQ
Pre then, no one cares
vocal hornet
hell, I can probably heal the 5-10man content, then rogue as needed instead of flexing cat
still do more dmg as rogue than try hard cat
exotic trellis
Kitty doesn’t need pummeler to do good damage
Someone simmed it going from 730 to 850 dps
Pummeler can be covered up by more readily available consumables
hushed laurel
That's what, a 17%ish increase, I wouldn't spit on that. Its also "easy" to do, just massively unfun
vocal hornet
sure, but a try hard cat can beat a mediocre rogue. I would love to be that mediocre rogue.
hushed laurel
It also helps a lot more in nonperfect situations. Its just a "ton" of free damage.
vocal hornet
90 sec fights probably.
you can swap out mace during the fight, so probably just string it along
hushed laurel
The ability to go bear and pick up adds is great though
hushed laurel
Yah, the "tryhard" ferals on pservers used a lot of maxed the whole time. Its..m silly
fair carbon
Prot pally?
hushed laurel
Prot palys aren't tanks
fair carbon
vocal hornet
yeah. it is what it is.
hushed laurel
I'm sorry
fair carbon
P R 
T
vocal hornet
will have plenty of warriors and now a druid to back him up.
hushed laurel
Yah, you're gunna have dps warriors tanking stuff whole your paladin sits there oom
marble dune
without sims, how do i know whether or not Weapon Expertise is better than Aggression 😦
hushed laurel
How many balance druids? 
marble dune
or vs Improve Evis
ruby bridge
btw. (esp. if you are german) not sure if you remember barlow:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/745940-Hilarious-class-blog-Barlow-s-Blog-translation
fair carbon
You use both Weapon Expertise AND Aggression 
plucky nymph
ImpEvi is a good question, Expertise isn't.
marble dune
i think ive gotten off a 5 pt evis
like once
from 1-40
if a mob is at 20%, 2 cp on target, do i ss or evis?
I NEED ANSWERS 😦
plucky nymph
just auto it down while you eat your sandwich
void meteor
anyone know how much a mara princess run should cost?
plucky nymph
Nothing.
exotic trellis
He means from like a solo hunter
hushed laurel
Are you trying to buy one from a hunter or something? This early I doubt many hunters can do that
exotic trellis
Although I thought that it was however many runs until blackstone ring dropped
hushed laurel
This early, not much. Just give them all the loot besides what you need and like... 10g or something. You being there will massively speed stuff up anyway.
vocal hornet
@marble dune ive just been refreshing snd, for the next target. else just let the whites do the work.
bad cleave, but the ST is way way over others.
so w/e
frosty rover
I feel like finishers sucks a bit especially if you are hitting higher lvl mobs without reckless strikes since you literally loose all the energy (comparing to SS where you don't loose all the energy)
I'm using finishers only against lower level target or into a gouge (mob can't parry/dodge while gouged)
hushed laurel
That's how you beat the elevator boss
fair carbon
What a legend
elfin belfry
I just jump off and die the spirit healer is right beside the cliff
sly valve
just barely made it lol pro as hell
native heath
guys is there any version of outfitter for gear swap at classic?
native heath
😦
plucky nymph
😐
finite schooner
i just hit level 10, what should i buy from the rogue trainer
finite schooner
is there a limit what you can buy like talents?
fair carbon
No
finite schooner
cool ty
fair carbon
It’s training
finite schooner
its just buying your spells
fair carbon
Yeah
finite schooner
okay ty
fair carbon
But the big ones to avoid upgrading
Kick, Gouge, and Expose Armor
Get R1 kick and gouge but the rank ups only increase their damage
So it’s not worth it
frosty rover
I like expose armor xD
Sap -> CS -> Restealth -> Garrote -> Expose armore (without breaking sap)-> vanish -> CB -> Ambush
works fine
jolly walrus
not to mention stealth CD
fair carbon
He's probably using Imp Sap
But you can't restrealth after CS
Restealth*
You can blind to restealth
So it could work
Also damage breaks sap
So no nevermind it can't work
marble dune
garrote breaks sap
fair carbon
Yeah
So this guy is full of loads of shit
Sap takes you out of stealth unless you're talented
CS takes you out of stealth so he'd need blind to restealth
Garrote requires stealth
Damage breaks sap so he wouldn't be sapped anymore anyway
Vanish would reset the mob you're attacking unless its a player
marble dune
well sap last for 30 secs, technically you could wait it out
fair carbon
But wtf is the point of it then?
You just gonna sap something and wait 30 seconds to attack it?
Unless you're pulling 3+ mobs what's the point?
marble dune
pretty sure hes talking pvp
fair carbon
^ This
shadow tapir
for what?
devout cairn
im confused as to whats best for rogues in classic. Dual swords? Daggers? Dagger main hand sword off hand? sword main hand dagger offhand?
marble dune
Play whatever your heart desires
devout cairn
thats not the answer I wanted
wooden vale
i think for levelling its easier to play sword MH
since if ur solo its easier to facetank instead of trying to get backstabs
drowsy phoenix
m a c e s
marble dune
just aim for whatever drops
plucky nymph
sharp grotto
is there a 40 quest?
broken pollen
Need a WA string that shows me Blinding/Vanishin powder left in text format
so i can have it on my side
plucky nymph
just make some
broken pollen
oh nice thx
dry birch
yeah, i made some for blinding, vanish, and my poisons
ez pz
and obviously, only show under a certain threshold
red badger
How'd you get the count to be in the middle of the icon? It puts it on the right for me
vague bloom
Though most guides say no SnD until Rank 2, I'm getting much higher output refreshing 2 point SnD on dungeon packs. I even prio SnD on bosses and work 4-5 point evis in. Anyone else? I feel every guide is saying not to SnD pre-rank 2, but in these dungs my numbers are higher than similarly geared rogues running Evis as prio.
sharp grotto
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxb0xZhfM0bZVMecc0R what do yall think about this as a pvp build? seems nice and smooth to me
if not wanting to run CB... or could run https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxb0xtZhfZVMjcc0k for CB build?
coarse sierra
That really depends on what weapon you will use in pvp
outer ravine
is there a discord for classic rogue? or is it just this channel?
plucky nymph
There's probably a few dead classic discords for Rogue.
outer ravine
ooo ok. Is there a levelling guide for classic rogues? like which spec is optimal?
vague bloom
combat swords
coarse sierra
With Riposte imo
plucky nymph
vocal hornet
@outer ravine https://discord.gg/gfZ5Ufz
grand grove
guys, i got a question, between a dagger with 23-44 damage 2.00spd and the Torturing Poker, which one should i use in my MH ?
not sure if the dps gain is better than the loss of speed in classic
Torturing has more or less same damage range but 1.7 aspd
civic crest
If it’s the same then there is no reason to not put it in main hand
grand grove
but if the damage range is the same, shouldn't i use the slower dagger ?
sharp grotto
It don’t matter if the dmg range is the same... usually a slower weapon had a higher range so you put it in MH but if you have same ranges I believe it doesn’t matter
@coarse sierra both those builds I linked are a dagger build... it’s just 1 has imo sprint and 1 goes CB.
sharp grotto
Well it would be for pvp... so ambush into vanish CB ambush or CB evis
civic crest
I realize it’s for pvp 🙂
I honestly can’t wait till I’m 60 and can go some form of dagger build
sharp grotto
Yea me to, lol I may go at like 50 and get Barman Shankar lol
robust moon
any1 have riposte weak aura?
grand grove
okay so, weapon speed isn't normalized yet so i'm gonna keep the 2.00 aspd dagger
raven snow
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10IV_3NEmZdhh8iQXrs2Ek77YyUJbjBMWO5UxIWLlZl0/htmlview?sle=true# Anyone else having trouble, trying to click other phases but it's just directing me to it's front page
coarse sierra
@sharp grotto yea. Forgive me that brain lag at the morning :). In my opinion the CB i ls a must have. But i havent olay a lot with daggers. Im personally bounded to swords :)
marble dune
anyone in a solid raiding guild on whitemane-h?
gloomy hawk
is assassination spec good for raiding?
raven snow
Dagger spec becomes good in Naxx it even owns sword spec
karmic wraith
vocal hornet
@karmic wraith ss snd ss ss ss. you do not need an addon for that.
vocal hornet
combat swords has been pretty great fo rme. the +hit talent is major.
vocal hornet
just accept that you dont cleave, and if you change targets you drop cps. So I just do 1cp snd. then make sure Im hitting from behind with whites.
the blue sword from deadmines was a big jump in dps.
others beat me on AoE. but this was a boss.
made me lol actually
native heath
someone make a gear swap addon plzzzz 😄
sharp grotto
Noobe when on big backs and cds we out dmg to lol... I just got adrenaline rush and that + cleaving is just nasty AF
shadow tapir
Gelkis or Magram Centaurs?
mortal egret
just get your outlaw saber ez
vocal hornet
@native heath I use macros. /equip [shift click item]
/equipslot 10 [Shift click ring]
etc.
mostly for dual spec stuff like druid and shaman.
could even have a macro that puts on your kife then throws knife for tagging, and another one that puts on gun for stats.
its messy, but works fine.
rogues dont need to swap much other than dagger to mh for ambush if you must.
native heath
i want to swap spirit gear for less downtime @vocal hornet
vocal hornet
as a rogue?
native heath
as shaman 😄
vocal hornet
i couldnt find the * text * nullifier for macros, to put a label above each /equip but this will work for you. Just decide which pieces to you want to swap and make there and back again macros
native heath
too much work but yeah ill prolly do that till a addon is out
vocal hornet
rings need the equipslot. so would dual wield
apparently itemrack and outfitter are both not developed.
native heath
what numbers are rings?
vocal hornet
probably 10 and 11
there is another option to do it by bags
im not a fan of bag management
put dps stuff in one bag, heal stuff in another bag.
but thats not something i want to do.
native heath
yeah i see thx
short goblet
I see the guide in the pinned messages, it seems to be alliance leaving. Is there one that geared towards horde?
vocal hornet
I use questie and Azeroth auto pilot.
then just run around willy nilly doing quests lol
short goblet
Also does revered/exalted get you better discounts on mounts?
marble dune
anyone know if vanish ambush works w/ blade furry?
iron skiff
Why wouldnt it?
marble dune
not complete until youre fully decked out in purples + TF
vanish ambush with BF sounds pretty sick, would need to use a macro for it tho mid-pull
Trying to work on a vanish ambush macro mid-fight after popping blade furry,
Would this work?
/Equip <Name of Dagger>
/cast Vanish
/cast Ambush
/Equip <Name of Sword>
i know there is like a slight delay in entering stealth via vanish, would I need to press this button twice? for vanish->ambush?
Would pressing twice switch me back to swords?
Wondering if I should just split this into 2 macros
ideally id like to press this macro twice
Once for
- equip dagger
- Vanish
- Ambush
2nd time for
- Equip Sword
vocal hornet
@marble dune you could just put the dagger on the ambush, and the sword on the SS macro
vocal hornet
@limpid horizon not yet. still lvl 23. but then again I do have until November or so until I will log back into retail
marble dune
do you know if adding the equip sword macro to SS would generate any "you already have this equipped" errors? @vocal hornet
vocal hornet
idk. give it a go. else use a shift mod macro for that first stab
void meteor
cant get the maraudon ring halp
void meteor
yea i know, i cant get it after 24 runs
vocal hornet
you can print that off and tape it on your monitor until you get the real thing.
void meteor
plucky nymph
Just imagine you have the hit :3
marble dune
what openers do you guys use in dungeons vs 5+ mobs?
plucky nymph
Sinister Strike
To be more fair, if you're using AR/BF;
Cheap Shot - SnD - BF - AR
Maintain SnD
marble dune
which order of SND->BF->AR would you prioritize casting first?
plucky nymph
BF first since you're getting value from SnD'd AAs.
You won't cap NRG from AR either way but there's a GCD of auto-attacks in there you miss out on casting BF after AR.
marble dune
Is the cheapshot 2 cp for 60 energy > SS 1 CP for 40 energy + dmg ?
plucky nymph
Ye 2CP for longer initial SnD IMO, especially considering 1 SS doesn't do much in an AoE scenario.
marble dune
posted this in the other rog discord
Thoughts on which order of opener spell cast would generate the highest optimal dungeon AOE DPS? Assuming 5+ mob count, typical combat swords spec. Lvl 40+ grinding thru dungeons
- Cheapshot
- SS
- Wait for 40+ energy before casting SND, so you can cast SND->Adrenaline Rush->BF without waiting for energy ticks and wasting SND duration.
3 CP SND is ideal because it last 15 secs, same as BF and adrenaline rush.
4 CP takes too long to build up and the pack of mobs might die before your AR/BF wears off - Adrenaline Rush,
- Bladefurry
- Wait for 60 Energy, Equip Dagger
- Vanish--> Ambush --> Equip Swords
- SS and continue typical rotation
Vs
- Equip Dagger -> Ambush
- Equip Swords -> SS
- SS
- 3 CP SND
- Adrenaline Rush
- BF
- Equip Dagger - > Vanish Ambush
- Equip swords and SS
Main difference between the two is Cheapshot vs ambush opener. CS gives 2 cp and ambush gives 1. Would be able to get off 3 cp snd faster with CS than ambush opener. Mobs don't last very long in dungeons so it might take too long to get off a 3 CP SND w/ ambush openers.
I welcome dicussion on this
Also open to discuss which order to cast is most optimal
SND->AR->BF, or AR->SND->BF etc
plucky nymph
brb reading a fucking shortstory.
marble dune
THIS IS WHY WE NEED SIMS @ruby bridge
ruby bridge
this is all you ever need for classic:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/745940-Hilarious-class-blog-Barlow-s-Blog-translation
marble dune
u bastard
ruby bridge
i am all for sims btw. i offered my help with apl if others would do the implementation
marble dune
i dont know a thing about apl unfortunately
ruby bridge
well problem is its not as simple as taking spelldata from classic and call it a day
there is quite some work to be done outside of that, and so far it does not seems there will be a classic sim any time soon
also given the dificultly curve of the content it might be not to relevant
plucky nymph
It will not ever matter, IMO.
ruby bridge
e.g. i doubt the majority sim for lfr
marble dune
hey man im just a padder in every game i play
plucky nymph
Then you should know that holding Vanish for dropping aggro and not just DPS is probably a larger increase than dying.
marble dune
this is just dungeon dps grinding
plucky nymph
Yeah you could gigaDie there.
marble dune
im not gonna die to aggro, in fact i enjoy pulling aggro so then i get riposite procs
ruby bridge
i mean even on retail ppl who spend a lot (and i mean tons of hours) in m+/etc those ppl are not willing to invest time into simc even it would benefit them. And you ask for ppl to do the same for less benefit/reason
marble dune
rip procs during bf = win win
ruby bridge
aggro will def. play a role with higher gear lvls
plucky nymph
Riposte at cap O _O
marble dune
@plucky nymph the reason i did SND->AR->BF, is because i could cast snd at 40 energy, ar, then BF at the next energy tick.
If I did SND->BF->AR, I would have to wait for 3 energy ticks from 0->60 before i could cast snd->BF, but im open to discussion
plucky nymph
It's probably just worth SSing out of Stealth due to SS procs as well, so... w/e > _>
marble dune
Well it's for certain that Ambush for 60 energy > 1 SS for 40 Energy,
Damage difference is like 2.5-3x for a 20 more energy
Sword procs increase value of SS by 5% but not enough to overcome the 3-4x damage difference
plucky nymph
Minus WF procs, Crusader procs, etc. also factoring into that.
marble dune
right, add another 20% value for SS then
Crusader procs can proc off ambush too soo, excluding that factor
plucky nymph
Ye.
marble dune
so 2.5 - 3x > 1.25 still
im just not sure about cheapshot vs ambush and the value of 1 cp pt
WF can proc off ambush too, but weaker due to dagger dmg
plucky nymph
1CP is the difference between a 13s SnD and a 18s SnD.
Which is either refreshing inside AR+BF, and not.
marble dune
fuck i can probably come up with a really complicated spreadsheet that shows 4 secs of SND dmg from autos vs ambush dmg
so much work for such a minor thing lmao yikes
magic harness
hey guys, what's the best build to farm dungeons at around level 30-40? i got a pretty good dps dagger for my level and im now going to start to to SM as a 32 rogue. do i keep my sword spec with two decent swords or do i change?
marble dune
keep your sword spec, you get 2 good free swords easily once youre at lvl 38-39
from SM quest and RFD quest
magic harness
thanks mate ❤
plucky nymph
I just really don't think it matters past getting up BF for attack speed and autoing the shit out of the group.
Nuance past that is marginal.
marble dune
Marginal yea but i plan on dungeon grinding from 40-60, so that's at least a full week and half of doing the dungeon rotations lol
cyan vessel
anyone know if i turn in the gahz'rilla mallet quest, do i loose the mallet?
dusk crystal
if a mage loses to a rogue in aoe groups they really need to learn how to play
unless oom 
timid quest
Guys.. whats the way to go with weapons in classic?
Cause I have multiple and dont know if I only want those with max dps or not
also I have like 3 different helmets in my bags and dont know what to choose
plucky nymph
huh?
marble dune
bindings of TF dropped
i think its more of a tank weapon in classic tho
the dmg got nerfed alot compared to vanilla
fathom hearth
First kill drop
marble dune
screenshot is also a priest 😛
wild compass
Hello guys , i'm a 55 rogue actually , does somebody already try the pickpocket RFD or BRD run ? is it still viable in classic ? 😄
plucky nymph
There's probably still gold on those dwarves, ye.
finite schooner
is there just a classic general discord for questions about leveling and stuff
karmic bridge
How much interest should I charge for loaning 30g
dusk crystal
a lot
limpid blaze
void meteor
is the class quests for sunken temple not available for p1?
unkempt cove
@finite schooner noobe posted one earlier
https://discord.gg/gfZ5Ufz
RH has a better community for retail but that one has more pinned resources and discussion geared for classic
hidden basin
If 2 guys report me will i get banned?
in classic
i was competing for mobs and they said they'll report me for stealing their mobs
stray trench
not rly dude
hidden basin
yeah guess not you are right
i just know there's an AI that bans you automatically if enough people report you
but guess 2 people reporting for no reason won't cut it
unkempt cove
All the reporting does is flag you. If you're not actually breaking a rule you're fine
You might get reviewed
But that's it
I think name changes are the only thing you can get ai temp ban for
red badger
I'm 45g short from my mount. What do I do
gritty goblet
do you just vendor the skins? economy's trash
hushed laurel
Mostly, but depends on your server economy
hidden basin
I only see that thick leather is worth auctioning
thanks for the elaboration cosmo
at least on my server
outer ravine
hey guys, at what level can someone solo RFK?
noble orchid
Guys, anyone knows about any addon that helps to restock reagents? Like buying 12 flashing powder to always have 20 in the bag, or the necessary materials to craft 9 Instant poison. etc?
devout cairn
whats the rogue addon for the energy ticks
round oriole
for leveling (im 42) does instant poison beat out deadly poison?
plucky nymph
at every level it does
round oriole
really?
onyx linden
Yo, do any of y'all know of an addon to show when your energy is about to tick?
plucky nymph
There should be a few.
clever kayak
lol i go bouldering and find this shit https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/249295388744351744/621140038197051402/20190910_202738.jpg
i cant escape classic
plucky nymph
,,,
red badger
how much gold can you make pickpocketing sm cath? I'm like 45g short of my mount
desert geyser
Sounds like somebody has been training all their abilities and poisons
marble dune
imagine losing to a rogue in overall dps as a war/mage
oof
this is a full clear of rfd
pallid vigil
VANQ or SWORD OF OMEN for OH?
marble dune
omen on oh
pallid vigil
but that AP tho!
marble dune
oh
pallid vigil
thrash main hand
marble dune
vanq then
wild compass
I'm currently lvl 55 and using deadly poison on my trash blade and instant one on vanquisher . Should i use 2 instant instead ? Not sure what's the more efficient
dusk crystal
2 instant is better
thorny whale
2 instant for life, don't even bother training Deadly
anyone know if Elixir of Greater Agi or Elixir of Mongoose are in Classic?
raven snow
Does anyone have a Weakaura for stuns that work without a target, like you sap a mob, you obviously gonna swap target...
cyan vessel
someome got that weapoms spreadsheet for levelimg?
thorny whale
raven snow
guys i have a question for you...... i dont like very much combat, so i try an sub spec......
open with premeditation, garrote, hemorrage, rupture .... than spam backstab for cast rupture and eviscerate? ..... then return to stealth with preparation ability for restart the rotation
is a so bad bad bad bad idea?
gloomy hawk
subtlety is a pure pvp spec rte?
fringe spindle
do mouseover macros work?
looking for a mouseover kick/gouge so i dont loose cp's
sharp grotto
@gloomy hawk it’s not pure pvp really it can work pve
Just not as good as swords right now
gentle notch
any idea why im not getting the rogue lvl50 class quest even at 52?
wraith parcel
For some classes no, but yeah
Warriors get a trinket that is close to bis on short fights
hushed laurel
Best flask NA
sly valve
I'm beginning to wonder if I should have rolled dwarf for stoneform instead of human. Too bad I'm almost level 30. 😦
gloomy hawk
yea
human rogue is more of a pve
class
gnome and dwarv are just much better in pvp
exotic trellis
I went nelf rogue cuz I actually don’t give a shit and cuz I do flips when I jump
sharp grotto
I mean human is bis rogue vs rogue lol..
hushed laurel
Stoneform clears poisons, I think that's better than perception
signal ember
They both have their uses
gloomy hawk
gnome racial clears out root
which is huge against mages
night elf is the worst out of the bunch i think for alliance
steel condor
I was wondering this. I get told Rogues counter mages, but how on earth do you beat the roots?
Kinda wish i had gnome racial
gleaming field
Pretty sure the icy veins guide is wrong in terms of stat weights. Not sure of any situation where strength or attack power are more valuable than crit. According to Otto’s guide, 1% crit is equal to 19-23 points of attack power.
Perhaps its just the way the guide is written but it seems they are valuing any amount of attack power or strength over crit. Am i missing something here?
signal ember
You vanish if you want to break the root or get imp sprint in combat
steel condor
But they ib and wait the cds?
gleaming field
You can also juke the nova, causing the mage to use the spell but it not hit you
steel condor
Is nova around the mage or placed?
exotic trellis
Around the mage
steel condor
Ok i see how thats possible. Might try that
gleaming field
^
exotic trellis
is that a fucking thief pfp
gleaming field
Yeah, a combination of that, plus gouging the mage on his blink, right after you cheap shot help put you in an advantageous position.
Cheap, predict the blink, gouge as they blink.
They end up gouged on the other end of the blink and you just walk up to em again
steel condor
Ty for tips
hidden basin
will i need syndicate emblems?
heard they are for a rogue quest later on
something to get friendly with ravenholdt
but i think i already em being in this discord
exotic trellis
I wish that’s how it worked
gleaming field
Np!
exotic trellis
Wait aren’t all the class discord’s supposed to be named after their order halls?
unkempt cove
Most of the discords were around before the order halls also ravenholdt isn't the order hall name for rogue
proud quiver
any pve content creator on youtube or twitch? Wanna see some gameplay,lvling or dungeons
hushed laurel
Warriors on life support. Owait
gritty goblet
@limpid horizon which sources are conflicting?
plucky nymph
idle cedar
Most are in agreement on preraid bis
gritty goblet
shouldn't be that big of a thing, just get the stuff with hit at this point
idle cedar
Sort of, best is best, and waiting on raid gear will take forever because of how loot works
halcyon wadi
any good pickpocket schemes for classic?
to be clear, for gold, not for the lockpicking
daring thunder
!warn @limpid horizon don't try to dodge the filter