ive been up for 30 hours lol
#classic-discussion
weary island
ebon grail
If classic still runs batch at 400ms like original vanilla or if they speed that shit up, and run batches every 200ms etc
I know that loads of private servers were increasing the tick rates of server so each batch runs every 200-250ms
weary island
server tick rate is 400ms from my experience. having a mob die and getting the white dmg after for example.
ebon grail
Did they confirm it somewhere tho? Or was it just feeling?
weary island
its mostly feeling and how mobs die
so many times a mob dies and then my white dmg hits
its really noticible as a warrior with a 3.6s axe
ebon grail
fair enough
ebon grail
yea it does
weary island
also known as batch processing
weary island
tick rate and spell resolve are also intertwined
another knot in the chain
you can land a spell but it would only resolve every 400ms for example
starting and finishing casts has nothing to do with how often spells "resolve"
🍝
you can have a 60hz tick rate but spell resolve can be 1.5 away
so u miss every 3rd cast
wraith parcel
ebon grail
nice that basically confirms 400ms time frame for spell batching
Thanks @wraith parcel
hidden basin
Is putting points in MoD worth it while lvling as a combat swords? Or we can sap in dungeons with distract easily?
plucky nymph
Not really bothering with CC in dungeons while leveling.
Mages and warlocks are better at it.
hidden basin
That's true. But I guess sometimes a second CC will be needed or incase the group doesn't have a mage. Oh well, distract will do it for those type of situations.
wraith parcel
You're not really gonna be needing CCs while doing leveling dungeons, regardless of whos doing it
hidden basin
You got a point
spark raptor
reminder that sap removes you from stealth and you'll aggro the entire pack if your pull isnt well coordinated. screw sapping.
glossy portal
sap works like an opener ? Wasn't that the case only if you miss it ?
hybrid zealot
Well also back in old classic some groups took rogues with enhanced sap for that reason if they still needed cc
ebon grail
Still 10% chance to get fucked over by RNG, since imp sap is 30% per point, 3 points.
spark raptor
improved sap is pretty deep into subtlety too. so if youre leveling with combat, youll always break stealth by sapping
ebon grail
yup it wasn't worth, especially since sub was huge meme
till TBC, when they got SStep
and cheat death
weak salmon
Was sub not a thing in pvp?
ebon grail
was decent for anything that didn't have armor
if I remember correctly combat sword spec was the most used spec
dusk crystal
ambush evis deded
ebon grail
also you didn't really one shot anything since you needed cold blood > ambush > vanish > prep > cold blood > ambush
and all that shit was on GCD 
dusk crystal
lvl51s in AV 
weak salmon
With energy cost
dusk crystal
more skill required 
ebon grail
think only mages got away with it and had CS off GCD
two second blanket silence with talents tho, so that was nice
weak salmon
I like rogue, but don't feel like making one in classic tbh
ebon grail
I'm making mage very likely.
weak salmon
Too used to a lot of QoL stuff we have now like stealth move speed
dusk crystal
not sure what to play, I had rogue and warrior back then
inner pawn
what will happen after phase 6?
weak salmon
Enrage kicks in
ebon grail
either TBC or nothing or they'll do OSRS is doing
ebon grail
likely
dusk crystal
yeeee
ebon grail
surely would hope so
ebon grail
wrath babies
weak salmon
Played it a ton on private servers cause I was a kid :D
dusk crystal
need more netherdrakes
ebon grail
weak salmon
dusk crystal
or re create wow without lfr and lfg
dusk crystal
yea
weak salmon
I like making groups through chat
dusk crystal
one less raid difficulty, might as well remove normal
ebon grail
LFG just made LFG chat spam more convenient, it wasn't too bad
dusk crystal
less ilvl jumps
dusk crystal
lich man
weak salmon
That's my favourite part of wow lore hands down
ebon grail
"there must always be lich king btw" 
even back then they didn't kill their villans in case they'll need to bring them back 
ebon grail
very good, but not because of storyline
weak salmon
Story was nice too
ebon grail
weak salmon
🤷
I came to retail during legion and was happy with everything. Had high hopes for BFA, but it's kinda meh
ebon grail
legion was probably the best expansion since TBC
weak salmon
Why you don't like wrath?
ebon grail
Gear Score, Random LF dungeons queues, Naxx 25, ToC, Cheesy ICC ending
Purple item handouts, catch up gear through badges.
weak salmon
GS isn't xpac's fault
ebon grail
It is because as follow up on GS they created Item Level.
hybrid zealot
It's usually a toss up whether tbc or wrath is someone's top. I love that legion had such a high rating by the end. Because its start wasnt so good and was complained about slightly less than bfa. Gives hope
ebon grail
but that's off topic anyway, this channel is about classic.
weak salmon
Should I ever expect beta if my account is like 4-5 years old and active in wow since '17?
hybrid zealot
At this point unless it's a for a stress test no. They said they were happy with the current population size
acoustic heath
not yet
ebon grail
they'll prolly do beta wave when they increase level cap in future
weak salmon
Guess I'll just wait and hope 🤷
ebon grail
fuck knows how big tho
acoustic heath
apparently they have no plans to inv more people atm
bright matrix
STRESS TEST SCHEDULE*
Stress Test 1: Wed May 22–Thurs May 23
Stress Test 2: Wed Jun 19– Thurs Jun 20
Stress Test 3: Thurs Jul 18– Fri July 19
And beyond that for official beta invites isn't disclosed yet
bright matrix
There's some generic "We pick the most dedicated players based on wow-classic standards" etc etc
acoustic heath
it's until friday
acoustic heath
seems like it
ebon grail
@acoustic heath I'll level priest and we can do ragefire 
weak salmon
Says 2-4 PDT no?
acoustic heath
"we will be including everybody who was invited to the test on May 22."
the stress test realm will continue to be available until 4pm PDT on Thursday, May 30 so there is additional time to check out the starting experiences.
ebon grail
reading lessons are recommended
weak salmon
Oh I see now
ebon grail
they state the realms will stay up even after the main stress test
they just want most people to be online on that time so they collect data
weak salmon
I got an invite last time, but had no opportunity to play during the whole time
acoustic heath
I played for a while, was fun but you can't really do anything at level 5
level 10 gonna be better
weak salmon
So they're up for like what, 26 hours?
ebon grail
something like that yeah
acoustic heath
are you eu?
weak salmon
Mesz?
acoustic heath
I read that from the german bluepost so it's accurate
acoustic heath
yes
weak salmon
I am awkwardly confused
weak salmon
GMT+2=CEST?
acoustic heath
yes
weak salmon
Well
Still better wait Thursday
Or it's gonna be no sleep for me
Thursday evening
While they're still up
acoustic heath
Thursday is a bank holiday here, so I just gonna play in the morning 
weak salmon
All our holidays are left in may :D
plucky nymph
money makers
O _O
spark raptor
baron rivendare mount drops "heh, you pay me now boosterboy (hovers need button)"
silent zephyr
classic shall take over the galaxy
naive ermine
glacial lichen
dusk crystal
he dropped an extra loot for timed or something
weak salmon
Yeah nvm me, lost in time zones again :D
raven snow
So, everyone tells me Rogues in vanilla are like plague, everyone play it, so its hard to get recruited for raiding, whichs makes me wonder, which factions usually has less rogues? so i can have better chances
weak salmon
Watching beta streams makes me feel like there're more mages than anything else.
lyric cradle
There probably will be during the stress test
During the regular beta I haven't really noticed an abundance
lime arrow
40 man raid teams trust me you're going to get a spot if you want one.
tough pilot
Warriors/Mages by far seem to be the most crowded classes if im judging off of beta.
lime arrow
At least 2
dusk crystal
rogues won't be fotm, it's warriors
doesn't matter either way if you're decent you will get in raids no problem
tough pilot
yup true stuff. i was a brainless 13 or so year old that didn't know anything back in vanilla and even i raided.
weak salmon
I thought nobody really likes warrior
dusk crystal
well you could carry like half of the raid easy, if eveyone were as bad as the worst players they wouldn't have cleared stuff
people were bad and it was easy, but some people were super bad
LFR is still hard for some
hybrid zealot
There will be an abundance of rogues and warriors and mages just because anyone going in with a planned raid will have atleast 6 of each up to 8. But ya play what you want. Being a body makes you eligible for most guilds
ebon grail
Unless you're ret or enh shaman body.
hybrid zealot
Even then competitive raids could have 1 as a night fall bot plus their unique support abilities
weak salmon
@dusk crystal the levels of being bad are infinite.
dusk crystal
yep
delicate stone
Or stay in the 49 pvp bracket with a Pendulum of doom <_<
tough pilot
enhance seems super fun, been watching cdew past few days and it hits like a truck
glass timber
Shaman 😂
pulsar karma
Guys... I'm stuck between orc rogue or undead rogue. is stun resist really that impactful in pvp or is screwing locks and priest more important?
lyric cradle
its a tough choice but i believe in you
onyx stag
Depends how good you are, I think WotF and Vanish Cannibelize has way more amazing play potential,
weak salmon
Gnome best race
fair carbon
Yeah... for punting
weak salmon
I don't see a better race on alliance tbh
weary island
For rogue? Human hello
lyric cradle
yeah human is great for rogue, especially when facing other rogues
pulsar karma
The way I'm looking at it seems like maybe orc for pve while undead for pvp.. idk. Both too good.
lyric cradle
orc are probably better for pve so you might as well go all in
gearing up two rogues in classic sounds terrible lol
weak salmon
Human only good in rogue 1v1 once every 3 min
But rogue 1v1s are a meme by default
Gnome is good vs anything that roots and kites you
lyric cradle
25% resist confirmed OP https://www.twitch.tv/quin69/clip/EagerAttractiveHyenaTriHard?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
weak salmon
Yeah that's annoying af
tough pilot
rets 
raven snow
♿
weak salmon
1.5 or something?
fallen panther
Pretty decent. I mean overall human seems superior but if pvp is all you care about it seems really good
The only happy gnome players I know are stoners or women 
Then again it might be extra dank to have a little squeaking murder dolly with piggy tails kill all the big bad horde dummies
It's growing on me 
placid loom
It’s a 1 min CD with a .5 second cast. Gnome small hitbox is nice as well.
fallen panther
Gnome master race after all 
loud tree
Gnome is definitely underrated. 8)
I played gnome all of vanilla as well as undead and human rogues and Escape Artist can be very clutch.
hybrid zealot
I mean whats good for leveling isn't necessarily that good. the int boost is ok but not going to benefit many classes at max level
ornate jetty
Stone form is also very strong
Basically. Just dont play NE and youre fine
And if you have to go NE it better be female
You monsters
lyric cradle
sheeeeet +15 engineering is the real reason to play gnome
fallen panther
Does improved stealth even help much? I don't remember tbh
Nelf seems crap except for eye candy indeed
lyric cradle
what do you mean? wisp form is OP
fallen panther
Oh that's true
Corpse run power 
There weren't nearly as many graveyards back then, right. Those juicy 20min corpse runs in the barrens 
shadow tapir
Im sure shadowmeld is nice for escapes
fallen panther
It sure could be yeah
fallen panther
And tbh my first rogue was a nelf grill
shadow tapir
whomp
shadow tapir
: /
fallen panther
Odd
ornate jetty
Yea. You cannot shadowmeld in combat
fallen panther
So what is it good for? Setting up a nelf ambush with warriors and priests?
shadow tapir
Just gives other classes a minor stealth and better stealth for rogue and druid
so yes
fallen panther
Guess you can at least run away from a battle and sit down to drink and eat and go invis
ornate jetty
Its extremely situational. You can run, drop combat, meld and wait for real stealth to come off cd. Other than that. Its just a point in mod
ornate jetty
No. Its poop
desert atlas
Do gnome have smaller hitbox and attack range over humans?
tough pilot
Min maxing races in classic ewwww
lyric cradle
that's how it be
weak salmon
dunno about min maxing everything, but I'm totally rolling a gnome mage 😄
also I got real sad when I learned that meld was unusable in combat til wrath
lime arrow
@desert atlas they should. I originally made my rogue a gnome for smaller hit box in pvp
Tauren alternatively have a larger range and hitbox
weary island
iirc you can't move once melded either
lime arrow
You shouldn't be able to do that ever with meld.
lyric cradle
yeah pretty sure that has never been a thing lol
weary island
oh
hidden basin
Hello guys. Do you think old systems can run Classic better than BFA?
Like for example GTX 760 and I5 2400 3.2 ghz
This configuration still runs BFA fine but with reduced settings. How do you think it will fare with Classic?
plucky nymph
The same.
hidden basin
Cool. Thanks
hidden basin
Do you think Azeroth will be overcrowded with Rogues in Classic?
raven snow
My bet would be warriors rogues and mages will be EVERYWHERE in classic.
With 60% of Warriors quitting before level 40ish and change their classes to either mage or rogue
tough pilot
From what I've seen from beta which is a small sample size, warriors and mages are by far the most popular class atm. I've seen a few what will you main polls and warriors always been top with mage following.
I think there will be a decent amount of rogues, but I don't see how that should dictate if you should play one or not. Don't forget half these people hyped for classic will prob quit by lvl 40 like asmong and few other streamers have said.
ebon grail
Well classic is figured out, people know what to play to get raid spot or have fun in pvp
Going off meta healer classes will be the ultimate move because they'll be desired
delicate stone
I thought the 'healing meta' was just who could manage their mana better.
shadow tapir
It’s pretty much holy priest and resto Druid with some off supporters
delicate stone
I do recall a vague feeling of frustration from being heal sniped constantly.
raven snow
rogues will be there
hybrid zealot
For alliance pals is really strong as heals
raven snow
untill people realize that it's not so simple
and that warriors shit on rogues at max lvl
delicate stone
I'm curious what separates good rogues from bad at 60. I didn't main a Rogue back then.
Like how gear dependant were they, or was it all about poisons, or simply doing mechanics while dpsing, etc?
fair carbon
Very gear dependent, it was all about not clipping your swing timer from sword specialization SS procs, and keeping SnD up 100%
If you were swords*
delicate stone
Hm. I was about to ask that.
It's likewise been ages since I even thought about talent trees.
dusk crystal
can you actually do anything about SS procs
fair carbon
No
Its just a flat 5% chance to proc
So you don’t want to risk clipping your main hand swing with it cause it resets the timer and you miss auto attack damage
hidden basin
I'm sorry but what do you mean SS procs?
obsidian jay
sword spec
fair carbon
Sword Specialization Sinister Strike
So like you don’t want to Sinister or anything unless it’s at the start of your swing timer
weak salmon
Did the beta/stress test option in launcher disapper for everyone who only got into stress test?
weary island
yes
weak salmon
👌
plucky sparrow
My progress 
fallen panther
def gonna play priest. and if I don't end myself before I can get there, the plan is to have a rogue as money grinding machine (I seem to recall with some decent gear they are one of the best at killing stuff efficiently thanks to energy)
hybrid zealot
Well depending on any nerds to money farming. Hunter and mages are the top for farming
fair carbon
Tfw class discords for classes that didn’t exist in vanilla have a classic channel
weary island
classic dueling tournement going on atm lol, $2k prize
weak salmon
@fair carbon yeah cause people who use those channels aren't allowed to play and discuss classic 🤦
weak salmon
It's not like this classic channel is strictly for discussing classic rogues
Idk what was your point exactly
fair carbon
I never said that either wut?
weak salmon
Then what is your point
weak salmon
What if your dk discord is more active than say shaman discord
And you wanna play classic and discuss it with your dk buddies
fair carbon
Null argument. Acherus doesn’t have a classic channel
weak salmon
That was a random example
I didn't go out and join every class discord to check if they got classic channel
weak salmon
Now you're trying to be picky
fair carbon
What?
fair carbon
PoS does
That’s mainly what I was getting at
Regardless it was just a dumb observation dude
Jeez
weak salmon
How could I know which exactly you meant
I used dk as example
There was no point in saying that they don't have one
obsidian jay
Can y'all stop being goobers and realize there's nothing to argue about
obsidian jay
Just let it go, friend.
weak salmon
This guy triggered me man
loud tree
weary island
dusk crystal
lyric cradle
😡
fallen panther
@hybrid zealot I was a mage back in the day and I remember that I preferred to farm on my rogue alt. Might just have been more fun. It also depends on gear. It takes a while until you can efficiently aoe farm as a mage solo. And you need it to be all melee mobs which is not a given.
But it was a long time ago, so I could be misremembering
weary island
yea not really mage farming is best g/hr
not only open world but you can farm dire maul
glass timber
Epl black lotus market on a mage.
fallen panther
yeah might be. I mean it was a long time ago. Once I had epics from raids I obliterated shit so I could see it
just remeber that farming scarlet crusaders for instance was not as efficient
but I wasn't really min maxing back in the day I guess
most gold farmers/bots were hunters tbf. but that might have different reasons (simplicity makes it easier to bot etc)
weary island
way easier to bot yea, blizzard/CoC kite farming is still best
fallen panther
guess I'll go back to the roots then and play a mage again 
at least as my farm bitch
aoe farming dungeons sounds good actually
weary island
u can even farm cath with a mage
lunar saffron
I never played classic. How were rogues compared to hunters?
plucky nymph
One was ranged and the other is melee.
More seriously, how are you trying to compare them?
PVP. PVE. Dungeons. Raiding. Farming. etc.
glass timber
Lol
Hunters end up being the butt of all jokes.
Literally every weapon that drops a hunter will want it.
glossy portal
TBC and vanilla hunter has always felt so much better than later (focus) versions of the class
glossy portal
I've heard about weaving in melee abilities increases dps. That's from fresher youtube videos. Not sure how it would work in real pve not a dummy tho
plucky nymph
Well if you're meleeing as a hunter you're doing 0 DMG from range, so...
yeah I suppose?
Can also see it being fine when your CDs are down.
As you're just auto-ing then really.
plucky nymph
Also @ 60 you've got mongo fucking 2handers and Raptor Strike can global people > _>
glossy portal
that's what they meant. you run in melee, then back out for aa's
but I haven't really been paying it that much attention. But found it an interesting concept
it's only 5yard deadzone, doesn't take that much time to dip in
especially if you have slow bow/gun. you get 3sec between attacks
weary island
thats more of a warrior thing with hamstring
if they get to melee u will do way more dmg running away and shooting from ranged with conc shot kiting
but warriors either facetank or hamstring AA kite. works especially well when the mob's auto is faster than your weapon's auto, which happens a lot. u need a swingtimer addon or just count it/feel for it, and try to trade 1 for 1 aa's
not really necessary but can speed things up slightly if you're good/consistent at it
spark raptor
Did we talk about the hit table thing with 14% parry on bosses if you have 300 skill?
The repercussions could be massive, especially for horde
I can see a world where horde is weaker now, humans as best tanks, rogues overtaking warriors and stuff
ebon grail
just like in real vanilla, alliance will be superior pve faction
weary island
Won't matter for dps since you should never be in front of a boss. You'd get sat in most competent vanilla guilds if u were a melee and were in front, because parry haste would fuck up the tanks
Going from ~9% on pservers to 14% on classic will be a little rougher on tanks threat per second and parry haste may chunk them if unlucky but for dps it won't change anything
dusk crystal
lol he means furys cant go full monkey dps due to aggro
rogues do more
if a fury doesnt have aggro issues hes not doing good enough
weak salmon
Benefits of being bottom dps: you won't pull aggro 😂
dusk crystal
yea shamans wont have that problem xd
weak salmon
Tbh I never dealt with aggro as dps in my life. Oldest raids I've done were in wotlk and I was on rogue. Just spam tricks ez life.
I miss tricks being a dps cd tbh
weary island
well now feint will be a dps cd
fair carbon
^
delicate stone
Wasn't there a threat drop trinket?
Memory is telling me from.... BWL
Or I'm just missed remembering the BWL class trinkets.
Also for daggers, Heartseeker, Barman Shanker, and Core Hound Tooth all stick out to me.
As like, preMC / early MC goals
fair carbon
Glacial Blade
spark raptor
for warriors the lower threat from tanks will be an issue
delicate stone
When were the epic dungeon sets introduced?
spark raptor
also hipz as always unable to draw a connection
delicate stone
so many questions
fair carbon
Distracting Dagger too
delicate stone
That was from the Prince in Dire Maul, correct?
fair carbon
Distracting?
delicate stone
Yeah
delicate stone
All this lost knowledge coming back to me. Now I guess I know where my priorities were for learning back when I was 14.
delicate stone
Yeah. The more I remember the more I think I may actually play. I mained a holy priest and had a Rogue alt, so...
fair carbon
Can’t wait to make bank opening lock boxes lmao
Also pickpocket is OP while leveling
delicate stone
I mostly remember gunning for full Shadowcraft and got super lucky achieving it.
fair carbon
Pickpocket alone will get you your skills lmfao
delicate stone
True. I might just go herb/mining or skinning and focus on boxes :|
delicate stone
Oh fuck right.
fair carbon
Try and beat the sweaty Devilsaur mafia
delicate stone
Woah know what'd be great for Blizz to impliment for Classic? Bnet linked Transmog.
fair carbon
Uhhhhhhhh
delicate stone
What I mean is gear obtained on classic is added to your Live mog list.
delicate stone
:X
delicate stone
Hm.
fair carbon
It’d be another way Blizz would piss off people
delicate stone
I might be underestimating the ability of players to get to that point in this day and age.
fair carbon
Here’s the thing... I’m on Elysium right now cause eh why not... but I see warriors in full Dreadnaught everywhere
So it’s definitely obtainable
delicate stone
Huh. It'll be interesting to see for sure.
fair carbon
But yeah keep retail away from classic and keep classic away from retail
They should be entirely separate entities in every way
delicate stone
Just how good were the dungeon sets back then, as well? I didn't develop a sense of gear management till late late Vanilla, when Naxx dropped.
delicate stone
I also recall this Resto Druid with two Mind Tap Talismans who dominated our healing =__=
delicate stone
...a Talisman of Ephemeral Power went to a different Holy Priest early MC once due to a bidding war of DKP
fair carbon
Oh boy welcome back DKP
delicate stone
Gosh. I think by the end of MC/Beginning of BWL we started hard funneling caster items to our Ranged DPS leads: a Warlock and Mage
fair carbon
I was asking my guildies who wanted to manage DKP and they just said I will since I brought it up
delicate stone
My friend (our best dps; Rogue) got jilted out of our first Core Hound Tooth drop due to the melee lead (a different Rogue) pulling a seniority over his higher Bid.
fair carbon
Lmao
warm loom
@delicate stone @fair carbon I really hope I never see DKP again
I do not miss those times
plucky nymph
Probably not happening this time around.
tough pilot
What makes you think it wont be around this time? Only so many ways to toss out loot.
plucky nymph
Does it exist now?
tough pilot
Correct me if im wrong, but weren't the loot systems a tad bit different? I remember it was kinda a mess back then.
plucky nymph
and loot rules in Classic are not like they were in Vanilla.
delicate stone
Master Loot is still a thing, so I can see Loot Council being big. It's just the 40 man raid size to contend with.
plucky nymph
But DKP ain't happening, is the point... probably.
Someone's gonna do it, for sure, stay away from those lunatics O _O
glass timber
I never did dungeons in vanilla ever
Once you get raid gear you don’t need it
My guild had the 3rd ony kill on the server got the first vis'kag bloodletter on server
Brute blade the next day.
I have a feeling classic is going to be the opposite for me this time around 🤣
WTB krol blade
delicate stone
Woah, lol.
plucky nymph
I've always followed the 8.6/24.6 hit caps so I didn't get to lose the crit from that but hey that's something.
plucky nymph
Most people ended up with like, 9% or more hit and at least 5 weapon skill so they would have never seen it.
weary island
maladeth confirmed warrior weapnon
spark raptor
The hit thing is so much less impactful than the boss parry chance. You'll exceed the softcap anyway.
ebon grail
Not during MC. Hit rating was PITA at the start. Became non issue much later on. The weapon skill is huge deal tho. That damage reduction on glancing blows is HUGE.
spark raptor
Yeah for sure. Its still easy to get hitcap in pre raid gear even for warrior dps
scenic tapir
yo, is there a resource where i can find a pre raid bis list?
scenic tapir
anyone?
loud tree
DM'd you one
scenic tapir
ty man
loud tree
np
plucky nymph
There are a billion lists that are basically the same, just make sure you have either 9% hit or 305+ weapon skill before getting every bit of Attack Power and Critical Strike Rating you can.
If you are looking at a list for reference make sure it's using gear from content you can actually do.
dusk crystal
yea that list has gear by phases
strong sleet
I'd love to see that list too please
loud tree
hand of justice good for so long. BRD farming yay
plucky nymph
Mmm, there are better ranged options.
basically the same weapon but not a smell crossbow.
Just better when you have the hit.
Though obviously, way more expensive.
loud tree
classic gun sounds D:
loud tree
i think gold farmer hunters would use that weapon
plucky nymph
mmm, they still want damage.
plucky nymph
True.
but they also used wowinfinite/etc. or GM tools to cheat soooooooooooo, yeah I guess they're not in their right mind or respectable O _O
loud tree
for sure
warm loom
@plucky nymph Why didn't hunters want fast weapons?
plucky nymph
- Attack Timer Clipping
- DMG on CDs
I am sure there are other things.
Though to be fair @ 60 endgame most ranged weapons for hunters are near 3.00 speed.
and the weighting in Naxx is so dramatic.
warm loom
makes sense
looking over that BiS list is some memories
my druid had a warden staff
I wasn't super serious in vanilla, but I didn't expect it would be BiS
like, for the whole xpac
similarly, wolfhead helm
shadow tapir
If I remember rght 2.8 was the sweet spot for hunters
To get every ability without clipping any autos
plucky nymph
Yeah somewhere around there.
dusk crystal
still have memories of hunters blasting clothies with chromaggus xbow.. big multishots
Godmode in AV
desert atlas
My memories are weak, I know rogues can equip guns and bow for stat, but how does throw weapon gives stats compared to guns/bows
Like couldnt you throw knife or shuriken
hybrid zealot
Throwing weapons were shit because they didn't really do give stats
Iirc they were mostly white itens
candid dragon
thrown weapons also depleted iirc
hybrid zealot
Ya certain amount of charges like ammo
Then gone forever
There were axes shuriken knives and a couple other things iirc
autumn igloo
What spec is going to be the go to in classic?
weary island
combat daggers is the meta, but if you're human sword spec can be good too
autumn igloo
Ah ok but def combat huh?
raven snow
deadly throw was tbc; though i think only the pvp vendors had throwing weapons.
hybrid zealot
well it's not like retail. combat is not hard combat
It's mostly combat and some others in other spots
but combat main ya
autumn igloo
Ok cool thanks
desert atlas
I think there can be spot for 1 sub rogue who uses hemo, but its more of a support role, your personal dmg will be lower
lament elbow
I do not know if Hemo is lower dmg. I think there is a gear level where it is competitive. But in raids, the debuff comes into consideration.
tough pilot
I'm almost 100% certain it's lower damage.
I think it wasn't till tbc you saw more balance in specs. Correct me if I'm wrong tho.
spark raptor
hemo is so not worth
slender storm
Definitely not in PvE. I’ll be Hemo for PvP and see a lot of gold spent on respecs for PvE in my future
tough pilot
Yeah hemo in pvp was sexy pve meh
tiny estuary
I checked in pins and on shadowpanther but I didn’t see what I’m looking for so, I’m wondering where to find a good pre-raid BiS list for classic, the list they have on wowhead doesn’t actually have any fire resist on it and I thought you needed a lot of fire resist for MC?
lament elbow
I think if we look at Hemo math with Misplaced Sero Arm or High Warlords Blade (and alliance version), since Hemo is not normalized, it may be raid worthy. But a very small percentage will have either weapon so....
weary island
pre bis lists won't have any resist gear on it usually, they're more for the best dps gear you can get/want. for FR you'd use onyxia scale cloak, that one trinket that i can't remember the name of at the moment, and then you can swap in some volcanic gear if you want, you don't really need that much FR especially if you have a nice stock of FR potions
plucky nymph
MSA is from Naxx trash.
tiny estuary
ok thank you
plucky nymph
Expect to get these -
and like, 2-3 other pieces.
More if you don't have a G.FR potion.
We get basically nothing from DM other than Tarnished Elven Rings.
and books.
So that's fun.
dusk crystal
distracting dagger
midnight gust
Hello
slender storm
Remind me - in 1.12, did Human/Undead/etc racials share a CD with the PvP trinket? Pretty sure they didn't since Perception still existed, which made it "less obvious" to the devs at the time
graceful skiff
the trinkets aren't a blank "free me from CC" button like they are now. Like rogues can't get out stuns with their PvP trinket. Humans dont have EMFH but WOTF doesn't put your trinket on CD
@slender storm
slender storm
yep, aware. WoTF is more limited, but having the double fear break is pretty powerful. Thanks for clarifying re: non-shared CD!
graceful skiff
Yeah i just assume that when they made WoTF soak all CC.. in BC? Thats when it started to share a CD. No worries though, it'll be huge vs warlocks and priest for sure
plucky nymph
After they nerfed the duration yeah.
graceful skiff
You mean the WoTF ?
I just didn't keep up with it.. at the time i played alliance lol.
graceful skiff
thats exactly the same as vanilla rogue trinket no ?
graceful skiff
Oh meant the break cc not the duration
plucky nymph
That's much closer, sure.
graceful skiff
Yeah thats what i thought it was, didnt realize it was poly though tbh
plucky nymph
veryGud
spark raptor
Wow the wowhead classic rogue guide is written by a super average scrub
ruby bridge
should we do a classic release bot command?
midnight gust
For like time til release?
bright matrix
Ye
ruby bridge
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic release: 77 days 9 hours 20 minutes 34 secounds
bright matrix
ruby bridge
so, its right now
bright matrix
Like on the wow page
silent zephyr
Wow the michael jordan of video games is coming
summer is coming
bend the knee to WoW classic
plucky nymph
@spark raptor If you can do it better, then please do.
spark raptor
Its good on magmadar and nefarian i guess. Shadowpanther guides shouldnt be taken seriously, the site is mostly useful to view your options on nature and frost resistance gear (for clothies too)
Well, it might be possible to LoS the fear on nef anyway
Ah, its 60 aep for pvp, 1 for pve
But orc is better for pvp as well
His weapon aep chart criminally underrates weapon skill, which might be accurate if you play human. But he doesnt specify race or spec anywhere
acoustic heath
yea that's what I meant, orc is concidered better for pvp by most people
that's why I wondered
wotf seems to be overrated af on shadowpanther
hybrid zealot
I mean idk about 1.12 but wotf is still extremely strong in general
acoustic heath
don't get me wrong it's a good racial but having 30% stun resists when I can't break stuns with trinket just seems better
wraith parcel
25%, but yeah. They're good in different scenarios
Orc racial isnt useful at all vs priests/locks but very strong against other rogues
acoustic heath
5% standard resist chance + the 25% from orc (which is additive) that's why I wrote 30%
and you still have your pvp trinket to break fear as rogue
if you think about how many classes can stun and how many can fear it just makes wotf less attractive compared to the stun res
weary island
Also all the random items that stun like tidal charm, engi grenades etc
acoustic heath
yup
spark raptor
Resisting blackout has to feel good
wraith parcel
Grenades doesnt stun though, they incap
acoustic heath
no the iron grenade stuns in classic
weary island
Some stun, and the engi charge helm stuns
acoustic heath
they changed the grenades to incap in tbc
the effect still breaks on damage tho which is weird in classic
plucky nymph
What other Sleep breaks are there?
acoustic heath
dunno some trinket that causes damage to you
what classes have sleep? Hunter and druid?
plucky nymph
Skull of Impending Doom sure.
Hunter is the only thing you really are worrying about in that regard.
and random items.
acoustic heath
yea sure, orc is probably still the better pick
even more if you want to do both pve and pvp
plucky nymph
None of the PVP trinkets remove Sleep as well.
acoustic heath
yea I know
acoustic heath
I am not saying that wotf is bad by any means, I am just trying to evaluate whats better
I gonna do both
plucky nymph
I will probably be UD, WotF is a broken spell.
and was nerfed basically into the ground for a reason.
fallen panther
plucky nymph
Hardiness is a feels bad racial IMO.
acoustic heath
wdym
plucky nymph
Because if you are fighting an Orc you feelsbadman when you get a resist that you THINK was caused by their racial.
Whereas WOTF is a giant middle finger.
plucky nymph
The problem with the Orc racial is that you cannot tell whether or not it was the cause of the resist.
acoustic heath
it's not like it's hard to press wotf
plucky nymph
Course not.
WotF has more value due to it being; targeted, and a 5 second duration.
acoustic heath
resisting a stun can be the decider if you live or die tho
and 30% resi is like you will resist close to every 3rd stun
which is huge imo
especially with so many stuns in the game
plucky nymph
If you are basing whether you win or lose entirely on luck then I dunno what to tell you.
Feels good when you get that resist though.
4sure.
acoustic heath
I mean you are not basing it on that tho are you
otherwise any other rogue class with no cc break ability would die all the time
plucky nymph
I am also looking at WotF breaking Charm, meaning you won't die to warlocks endlessly.
acoustic heath
warlock isn't really a hard match up tho is it
plucky nymph
Fears are EXTREME CANCER.
plucky nymph
and if you cannot resist or break the Seduce you die 100% of the time.
It's not as bad as it is in TBC because you don't get 1shot, but you will get feared into the realm of reality and find yourself under the world wishing you'd have died instead.
acoustic heath
I mean yea ofc a undead has an advantage against fear classes but you can't just look at it that way
plucky nymph
The other classes don't really cause issues though.
acoustic heath
orc will have 100% a better time against other rogues
acoustic heath
from what I've read people assume that wl pop will be low on alli side anyway, because of wotf
plucky nymph
Meebee.
acoustic heath
but yea, still not too sure what to play. I am leaning towards orc, would like an undead aswell tho because of aesthetics
plucky nymph
That's another bonus.
acoustic heath
would roll female orc anyway tho, the male orc rogues look like fat kids trying to tiptoe around in a crowded room
plucky nymph
Troof.
dusty geyser
The most important part of choosing your rogue race is how good their sneaking animation looks
weary island
alliance 
acoustic heath
I'd prefer to play alliance in classic ngl but can't 
plush granite
spark raptor
Cant wait for the collective whining of horde guilds regarding threat
slender storm
#nochangesbutalsosomechangesformyparticularproblems
exotic trellis
Why does nelf female stealth animations look so dumb
fallen panther
It does yeah. Not very gracefully, is it
exotic trellis
If they weren’t dumb as shit I’d play a nelf when classic launches
But nelf faces look so much cuter than humans
I saw a picture of a female nelf in full t2 with the helm hidden and it looked cute as shit
spark raptor
t1 is better on nelf
the animation is nice
but the racials are just so useless, so consider yourself saved by your dislike
exotic trellis
I’ve hit 20 on a rogue on a pserver just as a lil test run, I’ll be maining a hunter at launch and played a nelf
If the stealth animation wasn’t so bad I’d have already set plans to pick nelf rogue
Also I honestly don’t care about a 1.8% DPS increase from sword racial, Hell I might just go daggers anyways.
Oh, and teldrassil isn’t going to be anywhere near as packed as elwynn forest is at launch so I’ll have an easier time levelling
wraith parcel
Idk i think its pretty equally split for alliance starting zones
Or atleast i dont think teldrassil will be much lower than the other if it is
placid loom
I tried that play in vanilla. Didn't feel any less competitive of a leveling spot back then. Who knows this go around.
wraith parcel
Whereas with horde its pretty clear that mulgore is the least crowded starting area
A lot of people want to play night elf, even if they dont have the best racials, simply because of how they look
placid loom
yeah I'm still going back and forth on orc or undead this go around.
if going alliance gnome would be the easy choice
glossy portal
maybe there are some players that can actually enjoy gnome looks, but I couldn't play one as a main. for shit and giggle, yea, sure. not as a main.
weak salmon
Used to hate gnomes, but then realized how annoying everything goblins do is.
Except for female gnomes squealing like pigs when being crit by melee, they're pretty alright.
spark raptor
I cant respect gnomes in pvp. Escape artist isnt even their best racial. You cant tell where their front or back is, have fun gouging those wankers
weak salmon
Hidden racial like tauren have
weak salmon
Honestly, in a world with no transmog I'd totally play gnome or something.
spark raptor
Imagine being r14 gnome warrior. Yellow rat with 1:4 scale grand marshals claymore toy
dusk crystal
pls no
weak salmon
The claymore is still gonna be twice his height
A gnome with 2 handers is a no-no
Gnome caster or rogue is aight
wraith parcel
Good thing people think it looks stupid, gnome warr too strong
weak salmon
Root breaker with decently short cd on a warrior is actually great
spark raptor
Be a decent gnome warrior, go out farm average frostmages and then proceed to cry when looking at your dps in raids
weak salmon
Nobody's gonna let you dps in raids anyway
spark raptor
Baddest of feels
spark raptor
You arent the best if you arent human
wraith parcel
Barrely matters if you have edgemasters
weak salmon
Just get hit cap
spark raptor
And honestly, the 14% parry thing makes me think rogue might be better than fury
wraith parcel
14% parry is only from infront
spark raptor
Yea, your tank will do less threat
wraith parcel
If you have aggro problems just get a druid tank
spark raptor
They arent better though (comparing to dual wielding fury/prot)
wraith parcel
They are though? Unless you have full naxx gear and thunderfury
spark raptor
Aq40 gear makes furyprot sick already
fallen panther
Idk the squeaking of a female gnome when hitting stuff is hilarious to me. I probably couldn't stand maining one but I can respect it when someone memes it up like that. We had a female gnome mt once and it was so hilarious
Adorable little murder dolly
odd lake
Hey classic rogues, have you checked out Rokman's guide? Anyone got any feedback? Thoughts?
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/rogue-dps-classic-wow
plucky nymph
Seems fine.
weary island
i was too much of a noob 15 years ago to know about that energy tick timing, i thought that was pretty neat
effectively cutting the cost of SS in half
plucky nymph
I am reading over it again, and the SS tick trick is w/e honestly. Better for when burst is coming up and honestly I am not sure how much there is to actually gain from it.
There are some minor changes to talents later on in Classic/Vanilla and considerations have to be made for ImpExposeArmor as it's better than any other armor removal.
wraith parcel
You cant use sunder if expose is up though
But might just have a bear instead anyway
plucky nymph
You let Sunder drop after threat is generated and get the extra reduction from Expose.
Though I probably would not do this unless you are melee heavy.
wraith parcel
Or just have a bear and dont worry about threat 😄
plucky nymph
:3
Sinister Strike is left off of the Openers list.
It's mentioned in the Rotation that you can basically just start outside of Stealth, but it's a decent point to mention that SS should be used from Stealth IF you opening as such.
Blade Flurry is also not listed in the Rotation section.
Other than listing resist sets if that's desired, seems fine.
odd lake
❤ all - thank you
hexed berry
Was the dishonor points system where your own faction would turn on you for killing NPCs and flight masters actually part of the game? It’s in the manual but doesn’t ring a bell at all.
weary island
dishonor was gray npcs from what i remember
that are also flagged as "civilian", mostly quest givers and turn ins etc
weary island
killing very low level players was only a DK for a short time iirc
i havent googled it maybe someone can correct the record
glass timber
Nope never
Only npc flagged as civilians would give you a dk and ruin your honor / rank.
Had to sit always in a group people would spam invites and try and get you a dk
weary island
💯
hidden basin
you guys going for rank 14 in Classic?
weary island
Hell no
acoustic heath
no time for that
spark raptor
R10 already is super good and not too tough to reach
dusk crystal
r14 aka shitbucket ,no
raven snow
We’ll have our next stress test for WoW Classic on June 19, 2019 3:00 PM . This stress test will be accessible to anyone with an active World of Warcraft game account in the Americas & Oceania region. For players who have not yet tested World of Warcraft Classic, the game will become available for download late tomorrow, June 18.
just spit on eu
lyric cradle
considering its a stress test, I don't think they care if you can play or not lol
dusk crystal
yea they never cared about Europe anyways
coral bane
Honestly, 4pm est is just as bad. People dont get off work till 5. And then dinner
fair carbon
Perhaps that’s what they’re going for! A true vanilla experience. They don’t give a damn about anyone’s job lmao
glass timber
I’m old enough to remember NA cleared MC first
So having the test on NA time @dusk crystal is the wise choice
😆
vocal hornet
@plucky nymph tick tracking was actually a thing? I really enjoyed priest spirit counts. I would pump out a series of heals, then delay as long as possible (7-9s) before healing another cluster.
plucky nymph
@vocal hornet Yeah but I am not sure how much DPS you would actually get from it.
ebon pine
Anyone here who has a ton of pvp classic rogue experience? Prefer someone who had a lot of experience in actual vanilla rather than private servers. But im sure either person can help with some of my questions.
hybrid zealot
All those complaining about no EU in stress test wowhead looks like a clarification was made to include EU lol
lyric cradle
the one in July, not the one this month
hybrid zealot
Same thing
loud tree
@ebon pine I got rank 14 on two seperate rogues in vanilla. It's been a long time, but may be able to answer some of your questions.
night obsidian
So does that mean my account got flagged for the beta even though I unsubbed? Or is this one just for a stress test
daring thunder
being subbed or not doesn't have any impact on getting beta
as long as you're flagged to try it you can get it
weary island
everything i've read said u needed an active sub
daring thunder
my mate got it and he hasn't been subbed in 5 months
weary island
Participants will also need to have an active subscription or active game time on their Battle.net Account.
from their official announcement
daring thunder
he sent me a screenie of getting it 
daring thunder
he got stress test
not the full beta
my b
im so pepega im mixing my friends together
weary island
slow pollen
Im probably only doing an hour or two on stress test just to see how game feels
plucky nymph
Laggy, I bet.
drowsy phoenix
so
my launcher has the option to download what seems to be the post-beta version of classic
as well as the beta
hybrid zealot
is it called post beta classicZ?
drowsy phoenix
hybrid zealot
interesting I see that as well
drowsy phoenix
these character models are really something else
dusk crystal
rape face dwarf man
delicate stone
Wasn't there a date set for when you're able to save a character name before launch?
daring thunder
it was the 13th?
i think
of august
i think NA gets it a few hours before everyone else does
plucky nymph
12th or something yeah
drowsy phoenix
is it just like creating a character you cant use yet?
daring thunder
its for reserving names
drowsy phoenix
yeah just checking that was how it worked
daring thunder
i think you can reserve 3 per wow account
plucky nymph
Since the values probably won't change, here's this thing;
Rogue Skill Costs (Classic)
https://gdoc.pub/sheet/e/2PACX-1vQEcQX5TcxiKmVgMTUI1uqB6pA9FBit0X-LWV4biT1m2NYWYk5MOXuFT0AlfVl0cQoSCrG7T-IU9MSz#html?gid=0&single=true
loud tree
min maxing gold spending for that lvl 40 mount
plucky nymph
Gotta not farm @ 40 O _O
drowsy phoenix
I can bear running around like a goon if I get to cast my expensive abilities
drowsy phoenix
tome of feint pog
tough pilot
I made the mistake as a kid buying max abilities, not making that mistake again.
Not gonna be that dude that has ask for gold or farm for weeks cause I didn't farm on the way
tough pilot
Yeah shouldn't be too bad.
drowsy phoenix
oh right mount speed is determined by mount itself
the the winterspring saber epic?
errant timber
imagine learning a skill
using the skill
but not like, getting better at it naturally
you gott PAY someone
drowsy phoenix
who had the video of that level 52 rogue who was constantly casting "gamer power"
rip stress test
drowsy phoenix
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic release: 65 days 23 hours 58 minutes 27 secounds
spark raptor
@drowsy phoenix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XVtDMipgFw
I see you've awakened to our master. Welcome, brother.
winterspring saber is epic, but doesnt need epic riding skill
just like the r11 pvp mounts
drowsy phoenix
hail verycoolguy
spark raptor
he is the best player
daring thunder
its probably @proven nexus tbh
spark raptor
he's very cool, if he was in bfa no arena match ever would go to dampening
proven nexus
@plucky nymph i am very cool take that back
plucky nymph
thatisyettobeseenmyguy
proven nexus
daring thunder
i think you're very cool, guy
fair carbon
Guy’s a cool guy
slow pollen
how were rogues in vanilla? i didnt really play wow till legion so im totally in the dark on what to expect from classes in classic
vivid vale
OP till BWL, after its OK
tough pilot
Rogues were good. But a lot different than retail.
A lot qol for rogues didn't come til tbc
But overall they were one of best melee dps classes and pretty fun in pvp but you can make case for every class being fun
There's a bunch of what should I main in classic vids on YouTube just check those and they'll break down what you're looking for.
slow pollen
Yeah cause in legion i had mained a dk when i joined game and i loved the hell out of my frost dk, but in bfa they pretty much ruined my class for me. so i moved to rogue cuz i liked the mobility and defensives they had but in vanilla i heard they only have sprint really for mobi
tough pilot
Yeah rogues don't have cloak or step and bunch of other tools. Vanilla was really bear bones. Your stealth also decreased your movement speed a lot. And stealth detection was pretty easy.
slow pollen
yeah lol i tried a vanilla private server for a little tilll i hit like lvl 15 just to see what it felt like. and its totally different so idk what to do in classic
tough pilot
If mobility is what you like prob try druid. They were kings of it in vanilla.
Yeah classic a memefest. Play what you enjoy I wouldn't min max it too much.
slow pollen
i really wish deathknights were in the damn game. id just stick to one of those. i dont like warriors on bfa and i imagine i wont like it in classic either
tough pilot
Yeah warriors were bit different too so maybe there is some potential to like it but ehhh yeah dks are pretty damn unqiue
slow pollen
yeah man. if bfa didnt destroy what i loved about frost dk i prob wouldve never rolled rogue.
i had like 1500 hours on dk and didnt even have a 2nd character on account in legion. and then bfa rolls around and the whole gcd changes made me dislike the game overall. and then i went on a witch hunt for something fun to play
untold canopy
@spark raptor no mounts require epic riding
They're doing early riding style
There will be one training for each race, horse riding, ram riding etc
slow pollen
if we make an undead rogue can i go join my buddies in orc starting zone and be able to do my rogue quests over there? or does the system not register and i must return back to the undead zones for that
slow pollen
i know i can go over there, its just i was worried id have to travel all the way back to undead areas in order to complete my quests
loud tree
quests should be available
weary island
complete what quests? you'd take quests from orc zone questgivers and turn them in there...
loud tree
yeah maybe im misunderstanding question
slow pollen
@weary island @loud tree lets just agree im an idiot. cause now i 100% understand why it was a dumb question
loud tree
s'all good
weary island
daring thunder
slow pollen
just love me
drowsy phoenix
bottom line: quests are doable
fair carbon
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic release: 65 days 6 hours 10 minutes 41 secounds
hybrid zealot
He was asking about his class trainer stuff but the answer still the same. For clarity
novel reef
is energy regen tied to anything in classic?
untold canopy
20 energy every 2 seconds
There's no haste in vanilla
There's a couple things that will increase attack speed, but no pure haste type things
Only things energy related are adrenaline rush and thistle tea really
fair carbon
Also... heaven forbid