Well yeah, now theres gonna be 300 people in the starting zone instead of 1000
#classic-discussion
wraith parcel
lime arrow
Sharding is necessary imo to a degree
wraith parcel
😄
lime arrow
I wish u could control it. Like RuneScape worlds
lime arrow
Kind of
raven snow
[*]
errant timber
my favorite is when you see a rare in a cave
so you walk into it to kill it
and the cave phases you
raven snow
or when you want to do wpvp raid
lime arrow
Rip
raven snow
and half of the raid phases
raven snow
rogue sneaked it
errant timber
you walk into the cave, and the cave phases you
lime arrow
Hackers
errant timber
into a phase where the rare isn't up
lime arrow
In wotlk people would fly under the map and mine nodes
I remember it being a big thing
astral geyser
yeah, the hacking was bad then
astral geyser
ooh, almost through the queue!
lets see if I make it through retrieving realm list this time before it crashes
wraith parcel
Ooh, get ready to get stuck on character creation 
astral geyser
and dc'd again
and back in the queue
so far it's about what I remember from when I started playing vanilla the first time!
lime arrow
#genuineclassicexperience
shadow tapir
LOL
lime arrow
Not making a female troll...
weary island
fem orc 
raven snow
lime arrow
😭
raven snow
actual classic experience
errant timber
seems like only people who already had beta access can actually get in
buoyant mauve
<Plasma> is recruiting for Classic WoW
NA | PVP | Raiding | Social | Horde
Raid Times-
Friday: Block 1: 5pm CST - 8pm CST.
Block 2 8pm CST - 11pm CST
Saturday: Block 1: 5pm CST - 8pm CST.
Block 2: 8pm CST - 11pm CST.
Are you interested in Classic WoW and want to be in a successful and positive guild, led by Leaders who raid at the top level.?
We are a guild only focused solely on Classic, looking to have 3 teams going into Launch. We will put initial focus on raiding once Classic WoW releases, and will then begin to focus on PvP once Blizz releases honor system in Phase 2. A large majority of us currently play on Private Servers, so we have all the resources and information anyone would need to be ready for Launch and the raids.
Guild and Raids will be Lead by all current CE level Raiders on Live for the past few tiers as well as successful raiders from Vanilla and said Private Servers. Raiding/progression hours will occur on two of the following nights per week: Friday/Saturday/Sunday. Which two will be determined once we have a set core raiding group and be based off of aggregate availability.
All classes are currently welcome, but we would definitely like to recruit a dedicated Resto druid and Resto shaman for Classic WoW, and some more dps (specifically melee.)
plucky nymph
Mmm, we're gonna need another space...
errant timber
it's classic, they'd need a whole second post to show bosses killed
plucky nymph
Let me know how many pieces of frost resistance you farmed and I will get back to yoooouuuu.
drowsy phoenix
[The Hundred Club (25 Player)]
plucky nymph
thismotherfucker
soft hornet
why?
soft hornet
lmaoo
plucky nymph
Hoggers you can sneak past > _>
plucky nymph
Yeah I've a stupid SPREADSHEET TO FILL IN BLIZZARD
plucky nymph
no
raven snow
oh
plucky nymph
That's what I said.
raven snow
read that people that got it during mass invite for stress tests got only access for stress
not the actual beta
plucky nymph
Ye
plucky nymph
Because they have enough.
raven snow
hell no
plucky nymph
Sure seems like they do.
dusk crystal
they think they do but they don't
plucky nymph
Bigot 
shadow tapir
Are the stress servers still up?
shadow tapir
oh
tranquil ice
Is there a list of all the class quests that actually shows the abilities you get? I could open up like 20+ quests on wowhead(classic) but it doesn't show what you'll unlock by doing them, just item rewards
plucky nymph
Abilities you get?
tranquil ice
/unlock
plucky nymph
20 is poisons, should be poisons and instant poison rank 1
tranquil ice
which one is the quest id for poisons etc. or which are key levels where you definitely want to go back to your trainer
plucky nymph
Any skill list for classic/vanilla should show you a list of the skills and levels you get them at.
Values might be messed up.
tranquil ice
Ah yes.. the skill list would be a solution.. i just looked for quests.. nvm then they show the first level that you can get them at iirc, right..
shadow tapir
LOL So much nostalgia
tranquil ice
Another thing.. just to confirm.. frontstabbing was already confirmed that it doesn't work on classic? Or does it?
lime arrow
undead starting zone is so awful
1000 people for every 1 mob
first quest to kill 16 mobs
tranquil ice
I remember spending 8 hours in the undead starting zones to get to level 10 back in the day D:
plucky nymph
Pending latency not just... allowing you to frontstab.
wowhead/etc. not having skill costs triggered the crap out of me O _O
shadow tapir
I walked past the first quest because it wasnt on the mini map rofl
This is awesome
plucky nymph
Nicely done.
shadow tapir
Lul
shadow tapir
Seems to me that money comes much faster leveling to 5
I got 22s just from starting area, I remember back then struggling to get 10s for weapon training in goldshire/
Nvm, apparently after level 5 you get money instead of xp
daring thunder
Baited
shadow tapir
Yeah someone I was leveling with had 53s by level 5 like wtf
ebon grail
@plucky nymph holy shit its been a while since I saw someone use twinstar link 
its a Czech project 
I used to play on their TBC server.
wraith parcel
Confirmed by blizz to be working as expected in their "not a bug" list 🤷
tranquil ice
wait.. i don't get it.. i thought frontstabbing is supposed to be being able to use backstab while being in front of the enemy.. technically he is in the back of the other gnome so i understand why he'd be able to use backstab but.... the only bug here would be that he isn't even facing his enemy, not even sinister strike should work then
@weary island
dusk crystal
seems like a bug with classic hitbox , he is behind but just not facing him ..
that's not front stab
like you said
tranquil ice
yeah i thought the same, dunno why he posted that in response to frontstabbing
tranquil ice
like how they are standing in the clip, yea thats what i was getting at.. thats an actual bug
had the time to test frontstabbing tho since i got access to stresstest as it seems like
doesn't work on classic
spammed the shit outta backstab.. even binding it to scroll wheel
dusk crystal
it never did I think,
just private things
perhaps in pvp it's easier to make it seem like it works, not sure what the angle is where you are considered "behind "
but mobs just turn as you move
tranquil ice
well in pvp the enemy isn't always facing you
dusk crystal
yep
tranquil ice
of course it will be easier/possible then because they can't react within 1ms
ebon grail
tiddies have jiggle physics, that surely wasnt a thing back then
tranquil ice
big if true
desert atlas
Wasnt there viable specs pinned on this section?
hybrid zealot
I mean there's only like 2
spark raptor
The specs contained errors anyway
shadow schooner
Wait, wasnt sub viable for a while after review prior to naxx
plucky nymph
"viable"?
shadow schooner
800-900 dps in t2 viable, using GM weapon.
I made a post of some old confirmed/unconfirmed bugs/features I remember from Vanilla. Can anyone sort out my memory on these, time is a helluva drug when it comes to remembering some of this stuff.
I'm not in beta, but level 30 grants you access to all of these.
shadow tapir
Dwarves have horrible gun discipline
hybrid zealot
Are those supposed to be bugs from vanilla?
weary island
@tranquil ice must be semantics, thats what i've always heard of as frontstabbing (in the clip) it can also be done with gouge, pretty OP. what you're talking about i've always heard of as melee leeway, it can also make mobs hit you from way outside of melee range as you're running away from them
shadow schooner
Yes those are supposed to be issues present at that version of the game
hybrid zealot
Well the first one mentions being fixed in tbc
If that's the case it's probably a feature and not a bug in current client
And the rest easily could be as well
The funny thing is anything not completely obvious could be claimed to be a feature of classic. No one would really know
Ya sure that always worked that way
shadow schooner
Oh im just asking someone to confirm them if they could.
The sword spec issue was significant enough if I recall that it wasn't a great talent until Naxx and that's due to one of the swords increasing sword skill, and actually having a fast off-hand sword that isnt locked behind PVP.
Hemo I think is 100% intentional, and if its not taking weapon speed into account, it should be.
gentle walrus
anyone remmeber the best rogue talents for pve/pvp ?
raven snow
depends if dagger or sword
gentle walrus
if you have both best .. dagger > sword ? and what build again...
weary island
Combat daggers was the meta
dusk crystal
doesn't seem like a common build
shadow schooner
Yeah no murder, no relentless.
You dont need reposte or parry in pve
Who wrote that classic wow guide? Were rogues/druids benefitting 22 agi to crit, and all other classes were 29?
plucky nymph
I wouldn't take hard numbers seriously on any guide quite yet.
shadow schooner
Looking around, pretty sure thats an error on my part. looking like 29 is the number
shadow schooner
lol
might as well be 200
rip spell casters needing basically 60 int for 1% crit
Going to nice to go back to the version where agi improved ALL our physical defenses.
I missed having ~31% physical DR and >45% dodge when they removed agi from armor and reduced the dodge bonus rogues (and bears) got.
plucky nymph
Most things are fine for that, do want Relentless though as your energy generation is rather slow.
shadow schooner
20/2s wee 😄
baseline energy regen has actually never changed, just when we went from WOTLK > Cata it was changed from 20/2s tick to 1/100ms tick or something like that
plucky nymph
It also went from Chunky, to Smooth.
So while your regen was the same you could actually hit buttons without having 10 energy more than you need.
inner pawn
@plucky nymph what would u change to get to it?
shadow schooner
take 1 point out of improved SND
plucky nymph
Sword Spec isn't great for leveling because things die faster than a boss does.
But it's still nice.
inner pawn
Im not gonna max end game in classic just play my rogue and enjoy it while having an okay specc ^^
thanks man
plucky nymph
You can take the utility points out and get dodge if you want.
plucky nymph
The next time you Gouge to bandage you will be like....
_> those 1.5 seconds would be nice.
Tradeoff though.
For sure.
inner pawn
fair enough
inner pawn
haha fair enough
plucky nymph
w/e is on there is true AFAIK as it's a refresh from his website from 1.12 days.
spark raptor
Just think of sword spec as 5% kinda-crit
wraith parcel
Imp gouge is insane. If you time it properly you can get a restealth from the gouge alone in pvp, which could save you a lot of times if you get jumped on
bold geyser
Is hemo swords the best pvp spec until u get better gear? At 60 i mean.
spark raptor
Prep/cb is the best multi purpose spec
Your spec depends on situation, not gear
Like combat/prep if you face a lot of mages
If you mean seal fate specs, theyre mostly for fun and when you massively outgear people
weary island
damn i need a swingtimer
im only level 13 tho 
just got beta tonight, played for 7 hours straight
felt like 3 hours
spark raptor
Ahhhh
dusk crystal
can't remember when I've played that long straight, levelling in bfa sure but that felt like 2 days
clever oracle
If I didn’t have a job and a family I could easily play that shit for 12 hours/day
stuck saffron
exotic trellis
Hmm, is the ~1.8% overall DPS increase from being human worth the unfortunate con of having to look at a human’s ass the whole time instead of a nelf’s.
ivory pagoda
No, classic content is so easy, you don't have to minmax
But if you, for whatever reason feel like it's important, go ahead and play ugly human
dusk crystal
other stuff makes more difference than race
not worth picking a race you don't like
weak salmon
@exotic trellis is it worth playing a race with no racial? 
silver cove
if it's cute
urban rapids
Race is a big part if you care about not failing before you even login
dusk crystal
if you don't minmax pick whatever
fallen panther
Human master race duh. And that ass is also the best. What is this heresy 
dusk crystal
human male ass all day
fallen panther
Idk about that but the grills for sure
Imagine not winning every rogue on rogue encounter because you have stealth detection 
dusk crystal
hated human rogues in vanilla, when i played UD, or anything human
fallen panther
I bet you did
fallen panther
lyric cradle
ebon grail
@fallen panther kind reminder ur rolling horde with us
fallen panther
ebon grail
lyric cradle
shadow schooner
Oh that's one thing I hadn't considered with all this talk of stealth detection. I played Nelf the whole time in vanilla which was a free improved stealth as a racial. Going to suck not having that going around dungeons and pvp. Especially after all these years where I think they baked the talent into the ability now.
lyric cradle
some of my guildies want to roll on a PVE server!
shadow schooner
You still ahve BG's and maybe the occasional gank from someone who turns on their pvp flag.
at least you dont have to worry about DHK's as much 😄
lyric cradle
I mean I guess it would be kinda nice to not get railed on while trying to mine or fish or whatever
but its also cutting out some of the excitement
shadow schooner
The flipside is you cant camp bots stealing your nodes.
lyric cradle
WoW: Return of the Gold Sellers
shadow schooner
well they cant (not as easily) just port/fly around like they can on live
lyric cradle
if they aren't making advertisements in the air with dead bodies, its not a true vanilla experience
shadow schooner
I want the GM's to use their powers to create server messages in IF and Org now.
using that exploit.
hidden basin
Hello guys. So, as rogues lvling in the magical world of Azeroth in Classic WoW, what's the most passive way to earn enough gold for a mount at 40? Is vendoring everything, pick pocketing every humanoid and avoiding buying unnecessary abilities enough to earn you 100 gold to buy a mount at 40 - 42 lvl?
lyric cradle
blues and cloth are both pretty good ways
cloth is needed a crap ton more for classic since first aid is actually good
wraith parcel
Selling sloth during the launch rush will give you massive amounts of gold, but if you're playing a rogue you really want first aid yourself
weary island
Take skinning and mining or skinning and herb and go ham as u level
If ur gonna be short farm gorillas in stv
shadow tapir
Im going to be in a group of 3 and each has their own gathering. Problem with it is everyone will do this and probably saturate market
shadow tapir
Yeah thats what I was about to say haha
Yup
Vendoring bandages is supposedly good too if you dont need them
weary island
Ya for sure
hybrid zealot
ya but healer is so eh
unless you get the 1ish spot for enh
or pvp
if you pvp it's probably a good choice I hear
wraith parcel
I mean, ele is generally better in pvp and wingclip spamming hunter is better than it for pve
hybrid zealot
I meant to say ele is a good choice for pvp
enh also has the windfury build for pure rng
I was thinking of leveling a hunter real fast. To farm gold fast
in order to fund my real main
raven snow
no_beta_club
hidden basin
@shadow tapir If I take mining and skinning should I vendor everything? Also does a low level bank with enchanting worth it for disenchanting every green I send to it and sell the mats on AH?
weary island
did u guys see Snutz's 1v2 vid where its edited to look like vanilla
idk if i can link here
ill do it w/o the thumbnail
shadow tapir
I can’t tell you for sure storm, just going iff what I’ve heard
weary island
shadow tapir
IMO as hipz said vendor would make@most sense early
weary island
def vendor until u get to higher leathers
like 40ish areas
enchanting can make bank making wands
shadow tapir
Too many people starting at same spot for early@leather to be worth much and it’s easy to farm
shadow tapir
That’s true, casters need wands leveling
hidden basin
Yeah I see. Leather is best to vendor at least until higher lvl areas as Tawney said. So what about mining or herbalism, vendor that as well?
shadow tapir
I’d check wowheads vendor prices and compare them on release
If it’s even close vendor is the way to go
hidden basin
Yeah true
shadow tapir
When I played vanilla AH was best but that was a lot different
hidden basin
So as rogues I see we have a lot of important abilities. And I wonder what abilities we can avoid in order to save gold.
Is Rupture OK to avoid and not upgrade?
So Rupture, feint can be avoided maybe
hidden basin
So guess every ability is needed except feint then.
golden warren
Feint is your insurance against shit tanks
weary island
not really, if you pull aggro you vanish
unless you're talking about raid fights, in which you wouldn't worry about not taking skills because you will be at max level
and you'd have a threat meter
plucky nymph
drowsy phoenix
are skills actually that expensive
plucky nymph
Depends what level you are talking about.
In this case it's more about getting mount gold as near to 40 as you can.
and I don't really need 3 of these.
drowsy phoenix
need me guild charter moneys
plucky nymph
like 40 is 10g > _>
I need that money.
For for wheels.
I don't need 4 of those REALLY for leveling > _>
weary island
exactly
depends on ur cash on hand, and what/time you want to farm for the mount
i would def forgo training any of those at 34
weary island
and if i was 40 and didnt have mount i wouldnt train any of those either, especially if i was killing shit just fine, if not maybe train evisc
but you shouldnt need to
2g is 30min or so of farming
on average
maybe 20
i never went tryhard on gold farms im just thinking about the gorillas in stv, they had grays that sold for a lot
plucky nymph
Yeah and I want to spend as little time farming as possible.
plucky nymph
gaaaaaaaaaay
plucky nymph
whatamidoing O _O
weary island
dont
just follow joana 
i'd much rather see a skill buying guide, a quest guide etc
unless thats what yoiu're doing
specific rogue quests that you can skip bullshit with stealth
plucky nymph
This is just mostly MISC information and leveling talents.
Probably information on class quests as well.
Stuff you DO NOT want to fucking look up like;
plucky nymph
Yeah but I don't wanna google them.
weary island
? lol
plucky nymph
Not that they are hard to find or anything.
weary island
they're not, but that img is a great snapshot of them all and (imo) would be fine in a guide 
plucky nymph
Course.
weary island
ugh stance gear swap macros
fuck me
having to use scripts 
using a hidden action bar
ugghh
the only script i used so far on the beta is to show enemy bars at 30 yards instead of 10
QoL
warrior weapon swap and stance swap is def a thing tho, i gotta learn this
stance swap is easy but swapping weapons while stance swapping 
plucky nymph
We're on the modern LUA restrictions AFAIK.
weary island
if that "supermacro" addon is kill
the scripts using the 13-24 hidden action bar are fine
plucky nymph
uhhuh
plucky nymph
If it's dead on 8.1, it's dead here.
plucky nymph
mmm
delicate stone
It ain't like quests go away at 60 either.
plucky nymph
Right they go away at 52 O _O
ish
There's a lot of minor quests you could do but they're mostly low level when there's still a lot of separation.
wraith parcel
@weary island Cant you just do those macros in that link very easily in the beta with the legion macro structure?
weary island
no they still take the same structure
weary island
1 extra letter 
wraith parcel
Its like /cast [stance:1,stance:2] Berserker Stance /cast Whirlwind
plucky nymph
Ye
wraith parcel
Or w/e numbers the stances are
plucky nymph
battle is probably 0
wraith parcel
Which is so much shorter than all of those scripts
weary island
na
plucky nymph
HOW IS IT NOT STANCE 0
plucky nymph
I guess there is a nostance
weary island
also those stance shits dont matter if u jsut want a basic button stance
u do /cast Battle Stance
/cast Defensive Stance
plucky nymph
Course.
But those scripts are checking for stances then either switching or casting a spell.
or you could USE YOUR FINGERS
weary island
the stance 1 stance 2 scripts matter when you want to swap weapons at the same time
plucky nymph
Will trying to cast Whirlwind force you into Zerker?
plucky nymph
No I mean by default, which it shouldn't.
weary island
start attack macros as a warrior are nuts
starting attack if you dont have the rage
u have to make 2nd spell bar
and apply the macro to the 24th action button
just for a fking simple auto attack
plucky nymph
butwhy
weary island
/run if not IsCurrentAction(24) then UseAction(24) end;
/run CastSpellByName("bloodthirst")
exchange bloodthirst for rend, heroic strike etc
the Vanilla version of "start-attack-macro" that require you to bind autoattack to any button referenced in the macro. I bound mine to the last button on the lower right bar (actionbutton 24). The numbers of all buttons you can reference can be seen in the picture bellow. Numbers 13-24 are the "hidden" scroll-bar and arent shown in it.
plucky nymph
How does it not exist o _O shift mod macros exist.
Well if they don't then they don't.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
weary island
plucky nymph
But that's from 2016...
weary island
okay
plucky nymph
It's 2019.
weary island
vanilla is 2004
oh nvm
i see what you're saying
i tried startattack and it didnt work :/
plucky nymph
They might have stopped some scripting for sure, but there's also some stupid bugs so...
dunno.
plucky nymph
I see 6 too few Hamstrings
weary island
read 
plucky nymph
Hits not shits.
weary island
same thing
plucky nymph
Maybe shits as well.
weary island
ya
tulip citrus
Preping classic, but is combat dagger any good early game and for leveling? Or is swords the way to go?
plucky nymph
Backstab is annoying, just get a thing you can SS with.
I'd say to switch if you get very good daggers but still, that's a buncha gold...
so probably not a sane choice.
tulip citrus
Oke thx for the quick response
dusk crystal
super annoying to level with tbh unless you go in a group
tulip citrus
That sounds logical whit the req to stand behind
weary island
yeah combat daggers is more of an end game build
ebon grail
that being said if ur leveling with friends going backstab isn't completely out of the window of options
hidden basin
combat daggers is a thing? i thought you use swords in both endgame pve and lvling
At least that was the way in TBC
dusk crystal
it is in vanilla
hidden basin
damn fr?
So I use two daggers for raiding even with Combat?
need to check that out
But Swords are for lvling, right?
I see swords are still bis pre raid
guess you take daggers after?
fathom gale
All depended on if you had better swords or better daggers. If you're playing Horde, you'll do more damage with Swords with WF being a thing to consider. If Alliance Swords and Daggers are similar dmg, can't really remember combat daggers being a thing, because most went Sealed Fate in BWL
Sin is only good till after MC so don't bother with that.
Or be a hipster and play hemo :V
hidden basin
Sorry, but what was WF?
fathom gale
windfury
fathom gale
If you want to have a fun time in MC, play Horde.
As it's a raid full of elementals who are immune to poisons
hidden basin
Oh yeah I'm going horde for sure. Just can't decide between an undead rogue or an orc rogue
fathom gale
Undead Hemo rogue, purely for the style obviously.
fathom gale
Here's to wishing my guild decided on going Horde, but alas, Human it is for me.
Orc has the higher dps but undead passive is useful for things like Onyxia.
fathom gale
Also IIRC undead passive rememebr chrommagus sleep?
hidden basin
Nice hipz thanks for that
Guess I'll go hunting for the swords though
It's surely viable
weary island
its okay
seal fate sword build
not as good as combat daggers
but still fun
especially as human
@hidden basin
hidden basin
That looks interesting indeed
weary island
yee
hidden basin
So no Sword Specilization I see
As I read what some people are saying, the general conclusion I guess is that combat daggers is best for MC/BWL, combat sword for AQ Naxx
How much do you think is the difference between combat daggers and combat swords in MC/BWL?
Is it like a big difference or a small difference?
fathom gale
Mate if you even get the luxury to decide between Daggers and Swords I'd be surprised
It's more a case of you play the spec which you have gear for :v
hidden basin
Yeah that's kind of true
weary island
combat sworsds arent really a thing
hidden basin
Now I asked one streamer he says he prefers Combat Swords lol
but daggers is also powerful
And he's a classic boy
But as Swift says, I'll probably play with the best weapons I have
However, if you have lets say one good dagger and one good slow sword, what do I play with?
dagger and slow sword are a bad combo I guess
hidden basin
hmm
yeah it's a bad combo
If I had a dagger and a fast sword that would be nice I guess, right?
i mean good quality
weapons of each kind
fathom gale
You'd have to ask yourself how tf you ended up with a dagger and a sword, in the first place :]
hidden basin
I mean it dropped in a dungeon
weary island
yeah...
hidden basin
for example
fathom gale
Uh, ok so if you find yourself in that position
the answer would be sword MH till you either get a 2nd sword, or a 2nd dagger
But you'd not really want to raid/be concerned with performance when you're not setup with the correct weps
hidden basin
yeah that's true
hidden basin
lol
fathom gale
Or make a new rogue, as your rogue clearly is cursed.
hidden basin
yeah till raiding there will be farming for bis gear and something would wind up
two swords or two daggers
bis pre raid gear
or at least two weapons OK for raiding
to start
spark raptor
Idk how people are dickriding daggerspec
fathom gale
I don't have a bis list of gear to hand, but for example, if you farm UBRS enough times, you'll get the sword set
hidden basin
Yeah that will be my plan. Just a saw video guy saying the swords are great.
from UBRS
fathom gale
:V
spark raptor
Dalrend set is sick
dusk crystal
swords for life
hidden basin
We'll make swords great again. MSGA
spark raptor
Hipz with his quality arguments inc
dusk crystal
actually fury is the best spec in the game
play what you get weps for
chances are if you have multiple rogues everyone won't get lucky with daggers
spark raptor
You mean everyone wont get lucky with swords 
silent zephyr
Wow I was wrong about classic
hidden basin
What were you wrong about?
You thought it sucked and now you think it's the best game ever made?
silent zephyr
The best game ever made is a big stretch
Luckily I’ve only played vanillla and bfa and nothing in between so I don’t have a long standing resentment with blizzard
hidden basin
You played vanilla back in the days?
silent zephyr
Yeah in early 2000s and little bit of beta
silent zephyr
Nope
silent zephyr
It does some things better for sure
hybrid zealot
but the game play will bore most people
hidden basin
yeah like the lvling experience
silent zephyr
I think will be a lot of interest but overtake retail I think not
hybrid zealot
in retail thats just not the case anymore
hidden basin
true you play the game since lvl 1
But new players get boosts so they can jump in endgame right away
However, I feel like the game nowadays is an action RPG instead of the old school MMORPG
Different games, both are good in their own way
hybrid zealot
It might be close to retail in numbers from hard core vanilla players who only play vanilla and mild nothing to do interest from retail players
kind of like OSRS
it has people that only play OSRS and people that play live and OSRS
I wouldn't agree with action and it's definitely still an mmorpg whether people play it like it or not.
action is something like tera
silent zephyr
I don’t know that it’s going to get millions of people
hybrid zealot
where dodging matters
well blizzard accounted for people leaving by adding layering in the beginning
hopefully that will keep servers alive after the initial drop out
I will mostly play retail but I do want to complete most of the raids in vanilla agian
hidden basin
Thing with Vanilla is that it can have a healthy population even with 100K regular playerbase
It's not an expense to Blizzard as no new content is added
just maintance
hidden basin
It's a win win situation for them
hidden basin
Sorry to hear that soap
hybrid zealot
as long as they get new vanilla only players
silent zephyr
I think it’s funny
Being a tank for a guild called elitist jerks you must sacrifice it all
hybrid zealot
if their current playerbase shifts around and that's how it settles it would be a lose lose
that was ion's classic guild
hidden basin
The hype that Vanilla will generate at the start and the fact how many people will buy subs and will return to play WoW will make a huge profit for them imo. Afterwards it doesn't matter what happens as Classic is not a huge expense.
Yeah kloaf that's a possibility that might split the community.
Only that's a negative outcome for them I guess
hybrid zealot
ya but most likely they'll get a lot of the private server guys
silent zephyr
It was definitely fun to pvp on his toon because he had all the gear and just wind fury 1 shot everyone
hybrid zealot
and that should always cause it to be a win
hidden basin
How many people were playing on private servers anyway?
hybrid zealot
the question would be do they play official classic forever or move to another private server when it stales at the end
hidden basin
We got a number?
hidden basin
I see Elysium now has 2K and Northdale has 7K?
And it's hype season
Northdale has 12K now sorry
12K is more than enough for a healthy server
silent zephyr
It’ll be more
silent zephyr
Probably some people don’t want to risk playing on private servers
hidden basin
risk what?
hidden basin
ah yeah, but they had even less before Blizz announced the release date
hybrid zealot
ya some people prepping but some are waiting
I saw an article from 2 years ago that said nost had like 1 mil til it got shut down
silent zephyr
I’m going to wait until it’s been out for a while for crowding to go down
hybrid zealot
that probably put a lot of people out
hidden basin
Yeah launch is going to be insane
thank god for layering tbh
no way they could've launched without layering
silent zephyr
I hope classic does well and they learn something about upcoming patches in retail
Like making something difficult
hidden basin
Doubt that Soap. The game is changed way too much
There are many difficult things in the game if you want to pursue
The game just functions differently
They need to make an entirely new game in order to "fix" WoW
silent zephyr
I don’t think so. It’s always possible they might just have to upset some people
hidden basin
What can they do? Make lvling like vanilla? Remove LFR, group finders?
LFR is not even important, you can gear better from world quests lol
hybrid zealot
that would lose a lot of people i think
hidden basin
It might lose even the hardcore players
If they introduce pre raid content like in Vanilla where you have to grind a lot in order to prepare for raid
People are used to just log in, go to a raid, do their mythic stuff that only reqires skill and coordination
silent zephyr
Yeah I don’t have the answer
hidden basin
no pre raid prepping
That's why I like the term "instanced gameplay" for today's WoW
silent zephyr
For what I’ve been reading classic has a lot of useless specs and a lot of having to play only a handful of specs
hidden basin
Because the outside world doesn't matter
But the raids and instances are great imo
Specs and classes in vanilla compliment each other
In retail everything is balanced and viable
independent from the rest
silent zephyr
That’s one thing retail has that is nice
hidden basin
Well some people want that vanilla style where not everything is viable for every situation
and they want specs to compliment each other
but when it comes to pure skills and raids mechanic, vanilla is laughable in comparison
silent zephyr
Yep before parsing and io were all
wraith parcel
Theres gonna be a lot of people with hybrid specs. So instead of having the optimal pvp spec, the optimal pve spec or the optimal farming spec you have one that works for everything but isnt optimal
hidden basin
and respecing is expensive af
so guess that will cause a lot of frustration for some 😄
silent zephyr
At least all the “why classic is better than retail” videos can be put to threat
To rest*
Or get much worse
hidden basin
it's two different games
i don't know if you can even compare
catering to different people
silent zephyr
Don’t worry I know this. It’s funny watching debates
hidden basin
yeah i was just talking about the videos
silent zephyr
I like apples you like oranges. Stop it
hidden basin
and the influencers debating
silent zephyr
So is asmongold still on the blacklist?
Or does a new list get created and all is forgiven
silent zephyr
From one of the vaulty videos I saw yes
hidden basin
No idea, I know they gave him a beta and he peaked 100K viewers
It would be dumb of Blizzard to not give him promote the game
silent zephyr
No it had nothing to do with blizzard
hidden basin
oh
silent zephyr
Someone was prob butthurt they lost transmog comp
hidden basin
lmao
fathom gale
@dusk crystal Fury is only best if playing Horde though
silent zephyr
Gnomes are Godz
silent zephyr
The rule of the gnomes shall never end
spark raptor
human is op for fury because the best pre naxx weapons in the game are maces
ironfoe and empyrean demolisher
raven snow
is there any merit to going Orc > Undead for Rogue? and I'm not sure whats best on Alliance, HUman? Dwarf?
spark raptor
orc racial is ok for pve because of AP, and the passive 25% stunresist is also great for pvp. its a good choice
on alliance: human pve, perception is good vs other rogues too. dwarf rogue is the rogue killer
dusk crystal
perception super op if you know when to use it
raven snow
Do they benefit from the weapon skill racial also?
spark raptor
human does benefit from sword spec obviously
orcs have axe mastery, but rogues cant use axes
raven snow
I just couldnt think how many stuns there are that going Orc would be worth it for pvp
spark raptor
gnome rogue is kinda redunant. you have enough ways to remove root-like effects
dusk crystal
stun resist op
raven snow
But I mean do Rogues use Swords > Daggers? or is it just whatever you get your hands on
spark raptor
whatever you get your hands on, but swords > daggers
if youre a human and some nelf dude gets swords over you, your LC is shit
dusk crystal
swords look better too
spark raptor
its a matter of taste and vanilla daggers look cool. but i agree :>>>
dusk crystal
perditions and corehound look ok
spark raptor
i hate corehound tooth kinda
spark raptor
perdition's is top
kingsfall x:
horde r14 dagger x:
gutripper is shit but looks good too
dusk crystal
pig sticker tho 
spark raptor
but yeah, gnome isnt that hot for rogues tbh
you can break frostnova/roots like 4 times with 2x imrpoved sprint + 2x vanish
and if youre that serious about avoiding roots youre probably gonna FAP anyway. this is just an opinion tho.
ornate jetty
Minmaxing is for chumps. Gnome overlords will triumph
raven snow
I'm glad to see that rogues have ways to break roots/slows, I dont want to be kited forever
fathom gale
@dusk crystal Not saying Fury will be bad as Human/Ally, just won't be as strong as ppl think. Fury is much stronger when it has Fury/Bloodlust stacking
wraith parcel
There is no bloodlust in classic
wraith parcel
Well, might+kings is also incredibly strong
ruby bridge
so, what classic streamer was the most entertaining so far?
tepid pine
does anyone know if you need a wow sub to be able to use the beta invite?
hidden basin
@ruby bridge Esfand
ruby bridge
you should be able to play beta/ptr without a active subscription
tho you will need one once its on retail
spark raptor
totem twisting isnt very viable in vanilla i guess?
its good for individual parses maybe, but i'd assume it hurts your killtime
tepid pine
ahh okay okay thx!
raven snow
most entertaining? probably asmongold, esfand and venruki for his wpvp and duels
lime arrow
Been watching pikaboo for rogue
weak salmon
Ven is cool man
hybrid zealot
It's something new. Plus it's good revenue for a streamer right now
many people will love it at the beginning. The real question is how many people will like it months from now
hybrid zealot
lol
then the second question is how many servers will have enough people to maintain a community after the initial exodus
luckily they are trying to account for that with layering
plucky nymph
That's the actual question.
hybrid zealot
I'm not a big classic guy but I will play it a little bit for nostalgia
plucky nymph
There's probably gonna be like... 10 servers?
Hopefully they crunch them when the numbers get low.
hybrid zealot
I hope they don't make too many estimating
exactly
with layering they are sounding like they are going to make the initial population 3 times more than they expect to live on it
golden warren
@spark raptor duuude barman shanker is a top 5 iconic vanilla dagger
weary island
Combat daggers spec op
golden warren
I played combat daggers back in the day but swords is better for straight dmg
weary island
If ur human it's close
plucky nymph
Until you are in 2.5
and then later on SF starts competing once you're near crit cap.
weary island
1.2 spd offhand
plucky nymph
oobby
golden warren
Weapon skill benefit cap against raid bosses stops when? 610-615
Or was it higher to midigate glancing as much as possible
plucky nymph
310 to mitigate glancing.
spark raptor
proper glancing formula is pretty mysterious, really how curious how it really turns out.
also a broken bottle is no dagger >:(((
golden warren
The Barman disagrees
plucky nymph
You clearly stab people with it.
golden warren
Weapons of opportunity
weak salmon
Does the beta invite come with some e-mail or other kind of notification?
weak salmon
I got the stress test inv with email, wonder if proper beta inv comes with it
not like I'm expecting an invite 😄
scenic linden
I have yet to get an email and I was a day 1 beta invite
weary island
you look at your launcher
email can be 24 hours or more late
it will show in this box above the PLAY button
way before an email
weary island
yea, they combined the tooltip/menu option
for some reason
if u only got the stresstest u will see the same thing as ppl with full beta
weak salmon
yeah but no available realms
astral geyser
barman shanker was OP when ambush before they put in the nerf that the multiplier was a bas 1.7 instead of weapon speed. You could one shot most cloth wearers with it.
weary island
no you couldn't
hidden basin
80% of their health bye bye
glass timber
Lul people who never played with barman. It was very OP when the game launched
plucky nymph
It's the best preRaid dagger if you don't have the Blacksmithing dagger, Scholo dagger, or WSG revered dagger.
There are plenty of other daggers around Shankers weighting though.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It is the first and only 2.0 spd dagger @ rare though.
👌
pale echo
I need someone to get me classic ty
daring thunder
50 bucks
pale echo
😦
plucky nymph
😐
scenic linden
🙂
golden warren
Played a holy priest up to naxx, strongly considering playing vanilla to get that atiesh I never got
glass timber
I was in Mexico on a surf trip when my tf binding dropped. It went to alt rogue who had to main it.
That has haunted me for years
#anotherchance!
delicate stone
@golden warren same, but instead it left with me the feeling of "I did my time." Now I'm just gonna help my friends who are interested with my lingering knowledge and not play myself, lolol.
weary island
tfw u invite some ppl to help you kill an elite rare and get fucking layered
cool blizz ty
dusk crystal
barman was better than raid daggers before normalization patch
glossy portal
that's what beta is for. report it
golden warren
Or just complain about it here and nothing for sure is fixed if it’s and issue
ebon grail
Layering is just less functional sharding anyway 
golden warren
Not entirely it doesn’t place you with ppl from another server, only the one your on. Pointless anyway since it’s temporary
ebon grail
they'll keep it
no way it's "temporary"
next thing we know is sharded opening of AQ gates 
wraith parcel
They've explicitly stated (multiple times too) that there will not be any sharding or layering after phase 1 🤷
ebon grail
And blizzard is also known for breaking promises and or outright lying. I'll believe it when I see it 🤷
golden warren
Can’t help you then bro.
wraith parcel
The classic devs are not known for that though
ebon grail
Classic devs are just blizzard devs, the fact there is sharding whatsoever makes me suspicious.
wraith parcel
The fact that they dont think 6000 people in the same zone on launch is a good idea makes me suspicious
Ok dude
golden warren
Suspicion is fine, spreading misinformation isn’t
ebon grail
I didn't spread any misinformation. It's clear from my messages that it's my opinion.
golden warren
Although the server do seem to be able to handle a lot more than back on the day as they should
ebon grail
@wraith parcel There are a lot of things that aren't good idea in classic. But they are creating authentic experience, therefore things will be in it that arent good idea. Such as clumped starting zones.
golden warren
I realize that it’s not a shared hope but I think it would be sweet if someday they add a little content to classic in the form of something outdoors and hard as fook to have something to do after you got all your bis. I don’t have an idea what that would look like but I like the idea of it
With the same design philosophy as classic strictly
hybrid zealot
Unless classic over takes current wow they probably wont do that. They had to follow bad practices to recreate some stuff in classic it makes the code even harder to add to than retail
weary island
can u explain the bad practices they had to follow
and why code is harder to add than retail
hybrid zealot
they had to purposely introduce bad code and recreate bugs using bad practices that they had to force themselves not to correct
This naturally makes code harder to add to as it doesn't make all the code behave how you think it will (an issue they still have with all the old code in retail but much less so since they have worked hard to redo most of the code in retail over the years little by little)
the first part is explained in the interviews by the Snr Developer that came up with the method they are using to make classic
hidden basin
I thought they are fixing all the bugs that were back then in Classic.
hybrid zealot
nooooo
they are actually purposefully reintroducing recreatable bugs
they even have a don't report these as bugs as they were in classic and are intentionally in the game list
weary island
most bugs that you think are bugs were just how it was coded
it was never a bug
it was just how it was
the code was and is fine
u still never said a single bug btw
trading poly as mages was a thing in vanilla (but not live) and they had to change spell batching to allow it, to make it classic-like. that's not a bug, that's how it was. one example.
ebon grail
people gon be pissed when they interupt spells but they'll still go through because yaahoooo spell batching
ebon grail
on a positive note it didn't feel as bad as I expected it to feel on stress test
are they running with original 400ms spell batching or they lowered the time frame?
hybrid zealot
I'd have to find the post
weary island
well, spell batching is indepenant of the spell queue thing that i assume you're referencing with the 400ms comment
ebon grail
no, not spell queue
weary island
spell batching is totally server side
ebon grail
Yea
weary island
you cant do anything about it
ebon grail
Spells were processed in a batch on each server tick which was every 400ms.
weary island
correct
ebon grail
I'm asking if they are keeping the tick rate of 400ms or they speed it up to have faster server.
ebon grail
That's not what I'm asking, I know how spell batching works.