#classic-discussion
timid patrol
plucky nymph
Depends on what Blizzard is going to restrict.
plucky nymph
Most of that is solved by now, given they don't mangle things some.
I've gone back over my spreadsheets for rShaman over the past month and updated things > _>"
ruby bridge
class dev was not complex enough to justify simc, but well
plucky nymph
Yeah and since it's not attached to an AI of some kind there's no way of using it to discover strange idiosyncrasies and/or things that work like they shouldn't.
Yet. Dun dun duuuuuuuuun.
ruby bridge
you can use https://shadowpanther.net/ 
spark raptor
That site has a legit list of resistance hear if you check old dates on archive.org, no memes a good ressource for some stuff
steady harbor
I checked pins and noticed no guides or anything. How’re there no BiS lists or leveling/raiding/PvP guides out yet when classic has already happened and happens on private servers? Is there a trusted in-depth guide anywhere but just not pinned?
fair carbon
Probably because people haven’t thought about posting them
Much less about pinning them
steady harbor
Ah
wraith parcel
And there is still the question about which version of items classic will use.
I've heard people say 1.12 dungeon gear invalidates most of molten core gear. Because in earlier patches gear from dungeons were a lot worse
glad pond
They already said theyd use pre 1.12 items
manic hound
Whoa, Shadowpanther is a blast from the past, amazing!
raven snow
glad pond
hm i misunderstood their earlier post then... but at least some of the powerful items introduced in 1.10 wont be there at the start
spark raptor
Dungeon gear will still be pretty strong, could be worse tho
spark raptor
HoJ is so free. just join some madman thats farming for ironfoe
dusk crystal
yea
lime arrow
I really want to play rogue but I also kinda want to play something else. But I'm def not going to have alts on classic...
Running around without a mount scares me. It's what I'm least excited about
spark raptor
you'll see many characters with 60% mount
scenic linden
If I do an alt it would have to be either a good solo farmer or a warlock for the mount.
Cause I'm the same way
plush granite
Rogues can farm easy gold
Even at lvl 40
Without "competing" with other players
^ dont know how to say it in english
Just pickpocketing in instances
daring thunder
competing is correct
plush granite
oh ty
Pickpocketing in BRD at 60, or RFK, SM at lower levels
We are not like hunters farming maraudon/DMT or mages with aoe farming but still so good
And if you have skinning/herb can steal devilsaurs/black lotus from the horde
Opposite faction I mean****
signal ember
I remember farming for fadeleaf in dungeons to sell. Just steath, cc and herb. Reset and repeat.
raven snow
never had a max level rogue in vanilla, but i did have a 49 twink. Used to run sm in stealth just to open chests, SFK aswell since assassins blade sold for so much
raven snow
Im just looking forward to pick Pocketing again
dusk crystal
nothing beats killing 51 clothies in AV
ruby bridge
Classic Resources:
Guide: https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/rogue-dps-classic-wow
Shadowpanter: https://shadowpanther.net/
Weakauras: https://wago.io/classic-weakauras
Attack Table Math: https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table
if you have more stuff for the pin just ping me
astral folio
Cant wait for classic 😄 stun lock everything , expose armor on warriors dismantle ooh boy oh boy will it be a pain.
dusk crystal
there is no dismantle
lyric cradle
there wasn't until you dismantled his dreams 
astral folio
Woah , u are actually right ! Cant believe my brain tricked me like that. 😄
grizzled garnet
I wonder what addons they will open up the API to. I feel like WAs and tellmewhen would completely invalidate any content considering how simple it was
hybrid zealot
I kind of feel like those add ons would make it harder in many cases considering how simple it was
sharp oriole
I can't decide if I want to play another class in classic or reroll another rogue
I sorta hate alts on retail so I usually only play them as a main in a new expansion. But I wouldn't mind getting in on the druid drama early
Have they confirmed on how long it will take to unlock new expansions? Or is it up to devs?
lyric cradle
they havent even confirmed there would be releases of other expansions
so i wouldn't get your hopes on it for a while
sharp oriole
hm, just curious I wasn't sure. I would imagine if they did it would be on some kinda auto unlock via a timer, that would be the easiest way to do it.
dusk crystal
i think they want to keep classic classic, now that they actually do it
if they ever do TBC or something else i'd imagine its competely separate or you could copy your character there for example
from classic server
so you could play both
warm loom
I wouldn't bet on xpacs getting released again, if anything I expect guildwars-style "here's more shit to do at 60"
assuming they even add more to it
lyric cradle
I feel like them adding more would make the real classic fanatics angry cause not mah classic
dusk crystal
TBC is quite wanted I guess, not sure why it would anger the classic fanatics
if they keep classic
lyric cradle
I mean if they added more to classic
lime arrow
I'd rather play wotlk than TBC.
Wotlk for me was wow in its prime before cata literally destroyed everything
weary island
meh wrath had the first welfare epics
lyric cradle
i dont really have a problem with welfare epics
i would take those 100x over the weird 4 tiers of gear with war/titanforging that exists now
dusk crystal
would play the shit out of it due to arena
did like 1000 games back then in month or 2
from rival to glad lul
bright matrix
Classic Release Dates and Times
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22990080/mark-your-calendars-wow-classic-launch-and-testing-schedule
Note
Beginning May 15, select WoW players will be invited to participate in a small-scale, focused closed beta test. Players will also get a chance to help put our servers and technology through their paces in a series of stress tests running from May through July—you can opt in now through Account Management and select the WoW Classic beta.
soft hornet
How difficult do people think raiding is going to be in classic?
midnight gust
Never experienced it myself but I imagine roster boss on steroids
wet atlas
yeah the meme at the time was 10good player 10 alright player 10 DC/lag 10afker
weary island
Raiding is a lot more simple mechanic wise, difficulty comes beforehand...getting resist gear, farming flask and pot mats, getting attunements done....leveling and gearing up is a major part of the journey instead of a quick, means to an end like now
naive ermine
🤢
lime arrow
Hardest part is getting a full raid.
dusk crystal
probs don't need full now that people don't suck so much
weary island
Yea u can easily do mc with 30
wraith parcel
According to tips and staysafe most (if not all) bosses have had the wrong armor and resistance values, and most mobs out in the had a lot more armor than on the private 1.12 clients people have been playing on
But yeah, mc isnt going to be difficult either way
raven snow
did anyone get beta invite yet?
lyric cradle
nope, I kinda have a feeling a bunch of streamers will get invites and that will be about it
midnight gust
They're not doing invites apparently it's just people will be added randomly
Idk how great of a system that will be
raven snow
so far none of the big streamers got an invite
sooo
but blizz said they'll send mass invites when servers stress tests will be happening
weary island
it's noon on west coast where tf are the invites
plucky nymph
I'd expect them at around 6pm EST.
weary island
beta is up
plucky nymph
Your up.
weary island
im on F&F list and don't have it 
plucky nymph
Different invite list noooo
raven snow
where my beta at blizz
daring thunder
your beta is in another castle
vocal hornet
Did rogue have blade flurry in vanilla? I started it in bc and dont remember. Fok was added late right?
stray whale
How true to classic live are these classic resources for rogue
vocal hornet
Can't wait for CPS on target. :[
blissful elm
what's the best race for pvp as rogue?
weary island
probably undead
spark raptor
blade flurry is cleave, but not infinite. i think 2 additional targets are hit +atk speed
weary island
ah yea
spark raptor
best pvp races are dwarf orc ud, depends on what you want to do
blissful elm
@spark raptor what are the advantages of either orc or undead? I plan on going horde
lyric cradle
told ya it would be streamers, blizzard betas are now less testing and more advertisements
spark raptor
so orcs can randomly fully resist a kidney or cheap shot or intercept....
actually, 25% chance
raven snow
Anyone here playing on beta currently?
spark raptor
warriors have 15% stunresist from talents if they want to, ramping to 40% stunresist
UD is just generally good against fears which is a super common cc
alliance warlocks are easy kills unless theyre decently geared
and to prepare you for being frustrated with dwarves, they can just dispel your blind with stoneform cause its a poison effect
example by greatest player of wow ever you should subscribe and worship him
honestly im never gonna get tired of watching and linking that video
lime arrow
@vocal hornet fok was 80 with wotlk. Until then we didn't have any aoe
lime arrow
Dang I wasn't opted in for classic beta feels bad
raven snow
Getting access would be hard anyway
lime arrow
yeah you never know though
but I wasn't even letting myself be eligible in the first place so RIP
daring thunder
seems like if you're not a streamer you're sore outta luck for the first wave
plucky nymph
or if you are, but have not subbed in forever because you're a vanillaNerd.
raven snow
Any idea when the next wave of beta access drops?
chilly coral
Stress Test 1: Wed May 22–Thurs May 23
Stress Test 2: Wed Jun 19– Thurs Jun 20
Stress Test 3: Thurs Jul 18– Fri July 19
From their offical announcement
Thats everything afaik
The beta that lets you level to 30 rn is probably just the typical random nonsense invites that blizz usually does for betas
Starting with friends, family, and influencers
raven snow
Do we know for how long will beta last?
weary island
at least until july 19
F&F doesn't mean u got an invite btw
like most betas in the past it did
this one didnt for some reason
stray whale
If you resist a stun with orc is it on dr
weary island
check your privilege
spark raptor
If you resist its not on dr
blissful locust
@weary island tbf...about the last thing, you defeat ragnraros and cthun, wich is a fking old god in classic too lel
weary island
wat
rag is only a servant of the old gods
c'thun is technically an old god tho
nothing in that image said anything about old gods tho 
ivory pagoda
Random travelers killing an elemental lord and an old god seems much better than champions doing it 
weary island
we became "champions" (mostly just hardened adventurers, thanks to having 40 other friends with us) after pushing back c'thun, we never started as that. the journey was rough. try it yourself 🙂
cya in 2 years after you finally clear AQ
dusk crystal
tbh most of aq was very easy
weary island
sure
but you can't get to max level in 2 days and get carried to bis through m+ in another day
dusk crystal
thank god not, getting gear without any effort feels shit
weary island
"aq was easy" said the hunter that spent a month getting to 60, 20 days clearing MC, another 20 days clearing BWL, another 30 days getting to c'thun"
yea aq was easy tho
weary island
and that is the point
dusk crystal
the whole point of vanilla
weary island
was the journey
aq was not a pushover tho. mostly cause of bugged bosses that will be fixed
so it will be interesting to see
also be interesting to see how people handle 4 horsemen in naxx
used to require 6 warriors with set bonus for the taunt resist bonus
weary island
citation needed
raven snow
anyone from EU that isn't a streamer got the invite?
thick sinew
anyone know of any classic beta streams running rogue?
lyric cradle
from what a few streamers said it is only streamers + blizzard employees atm
raven snow
@thick sinew https://www.twitch.tv/guzu
dusk crystal
streamers bleh
polar dagger
Not many rogues I noticed in the beta
raven snow
not really the best nor fun spec to level
lilac heart
Working on a big sheet for classic, feel free to take a look and give me feedback https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WWjlHNEBC9wgfYjh87aJ66MmWphWuyRu8d43BeNjm0s/edit#gid=1145254190, will be updated the next few weeks/months
spark raptor
@lilac heart the recommended races list has a ton of mistakes. i tried typing it out in here but the text turned out huge, i can DM you if you want
lilac heart
Yeah.
spark raptor
eu/na?
scenic linden
Na
daring thunder
Fake news
spark raptor
well, my discord username starts with F0X so.... Kappa
daring thunder
lament steppe
i forgot how bad untalented stealth is, so slow and infinity detection range from mobs
spark raptor
yeah the one thing that scares me going back to vanilla is the really slow stealthed speed
just also realized most rogues wont have blind most of the time on a fresh server
buoyant apex
Am I blind or the vanilla's spec list isn't here anymore?
raven snow
talents are missing on beta
ruby bridge
the average user in 2005 had a display resolution of 800x600/1024x768.
Just let that here for those who want a authentic classic experience.
ruby bridge
yes they do, iirc you also have better image processing
its just sth to consider if you want a real vanilla experience
comparison: from vanilla videos vs. classic beta
hexed berry
vanilla just had a constant drunk filter applied.
ruby bridge
image processing was worse
so things where not as crisp as they are now
also the diffrent resolution shows in the pictures
lyric cradle
are you sure that isn't just shitty recording software?
cause that just looks straight up blurry
hexed berry
or maybe the character is drunk.
raven snow
@ruby bridge as u said these are videos
the quality of recording back then was actually shit
doesnt mean the graphic was that bad
the screens look blurry because of recording, game wasn't like that in 2005
ruby bridge
yes the screen looks blurry bc. of the video encoding and resolution
still a lower resolution and weaker image processing will give a less good output
blissful elm
does anyone have a sort of tier least or rock-paper-scissors eqsue visual for classes for pvp and pve?
wraith parcel
It changes a lot if people use consumables
desert atlas
I have question regarding thunderfury for rogue, now I know its for tank mainly, but how much usage can a rogue get from it. Like I think endgame naxx rogue wont be using thunderfury at all? but what about pvp as offhand?
spark raptor
its pretty good for pve until late naxx if youre a human rogue as offhand
well, maybe not late naxx, but sometime during naxx
for pvp id say its good for duels, but in bgs there is a real possibily of you breaking CC with it
if youre not human id stay away from it for pve
spark raptor
then be wealthy and the best rogue in your guild and make an argument for 3rd TF xD
no idea, i didnt have it myself, a guildmate of me had it on kronos
its not very big i guess, but if a sheep or blind is close you'll have a bad time
desert atlas
I think fear was harder to break in vanilla, so was warrior intimidating shout, so all thats left is Sheep and traps
spark raptor
fear is just random if it breaks or not
on damage
you'll be playing without TF for a while i guess, so you'll have another OH to equip :p
blissful elm
I main rogue in bfa, specificly assa, and was wondering if rogue is engaging in vanilla? is there a class that is engaging or are they all very simple?
wraith parcel
Play whatever you think looks fun, classic is a very different game than bfa
blissful elm
idk what looks fun tho. I've never played vanilla so i have no clue how the classes play. guess i'll test em all out
raven snow
Feral or druid overall is fun
U literally have to play all 3 specs at once to not die during questing
fathom hearth
And reg hp, energy, mana after every mob
raven snow
And shapeshift costs 250mana
So u cant do it more than twice during fight
Imo quite engaging
weary island
feral is good for wpvp and bgs, pretty bad for raiding
"feral" which is a hybrid with a bunch of points in to resto
wraith parcel
Feral is actually really good in molten core (assuming you've farmed crowd pummelers)
spark raptor
all specs are pretty simple and rogue in MC especially revolves around planning your rotation around your killtimer (if you're highend). otherwise keep snd up and eviscerate xD
warrior rage management is kinda fun
hamstring during heroic strike spam or not, decisions decisions
spark raptor
Oh my god 
fathom gale
Why are there paladins in your screenshot
vocal hornet
our old enh, says the 1.12 iteration is just post the back to back proc nerf. so its probably going to be limp.
weak salmon
Hello my vanilla friends, got a question for you. What classes do you think are the least gear dependent for pvp? Which ones work fine without good raid gear?
vocal hornet
this is the rogue PVE wep list
https://shadowpanther.net/weapons-pve.htm
There are some BOE pretty high on the list
spark raptor
i would take that list with a bit more than just a grain of salt
plucky nymph
@fathom gale We were all pink at one point in time.
weak salmon
@vocal hornet it's not really about the weapon pve dps, is it? More like how your abilities scale with gear, right?
vocal hornet
pretty sure we had 7-9 rogues in BWL.
with one set of boss loot, nothing personal, and no bonus loot, drop ratios of leather vs cloth vs plate would be interesting to see.
weary island
Evisc scales independent of weapon dmg so yea
Well not entirely but u can still kill with white daggers
plucky nymph
Yeah EVIS was AP, builders were weapon damage + mod.
weary island
yepper
weak salmon
How about other classes? I know warriors are quite gear dependent, but that's about it.
weary island
warriors arent exactly gear dependant
they have great gear (arcanite reaper)
but they can't go ham because they don't have a threat reducer like rogues do (feint)
warrior is 2nd best dps class in the game pre-AQ, and top dps during AQ
jom gabbar is biq
lament steppe
i forgot that poisons had charges..oof
spark raptor
Hipz, what class is supposed to beat warriors? Threat is mostly a nonissue unless your tank is shit
Ive only seen warriors topping with the odd rogue here and there until naxx
You dont even use feint, vanish is enough
Oddly enough feint is mostly interesting for pvp
dusk crystal
nothing beats naxx gear warriors even in AQ40 they start to be very good, rage gen goes thru the roof
never lost to a rogue in vanilla, but most sucked tbh
maybe a fire mage can beat with critrng
weary island
@spark raptor rogues
until AQ
def need to use feint
if u never seen rogues topping ur watching the wrong rogues tbh
or they're not specced fully in to pve
or just bad at pve
warriors can absolutely beat rogues tho with rng crits
spark raptor
What server did you play on. Kronos was warrior galore, still is
Vanish is enough to permanently fall behind on threat
Talking with worldbuffs
spark raptor
Server is at BWL stage
weary island
i had two 60s on nostalrius
and a 60 on kronos
my assertions above were not in regards to private servers
just how mechanics worked in 1.12
spark raptor
What was so fundamentally broken on those servers that you think rogues will pull ahead in classic
weary island
rogues have always been the best dps because they have threat drops.
warrior going ham will get threat and die, rogue going ham can either vanish or feint
these are very general statments to be sure
a great fury tank might be able to hold threat, sure
but it's not meta
spark raptor
it is meta on highend
i played with a fury/prot tank, i could go all out with heroic strike (throw in some cleaves for safety)
the only dangerous thing is having ironfoe and good rng
even when the tank isnt dual wielding, threat is really really good
(Kronos 1+2 - Vanguard)
on nost i played with bad tanks as a rogue and even then vanish is good enough
though that server didnt live past BWL to be fair
but vanish is enough
except on ony, but thats just ony. and thats with bad tanks
broodlord is probably the only boss where you have to be scared
weary island
ye vanish is 100% enough
but its a 5min cd
i mean its a 100% threat drop lol
of course its enough, it's the biggest dps cd in the game tbh
just go ham
spark raptor
you dont even rly need it with a sick tank. its just if you play with average tanks it will completely save you from overaggroing except from the odd boss with threat reduction on the tanks
spark raptor
why talk about 2004, its irrelevant
weary island
just my experience
spark raptor
fury > rogue
spark raptor
Rayana: What was so fundamentally broken on those servers that you think rogues will pull ahead in classic
you didnt adress this
spark raptor
how were they always ahead, they're behind at the top lvl on private servers
and you fail to tell me whats so broken on private servers that makes you think rogues will do more damage than fury at the top level
weary island
private servers have the wrong hp and armor values. everyone knows rogue was top dps until about late BWL/AQ. after that warrrior went ham.
spark raptor
ok, titanic leggings were out on kronos early, but thats about it
hp and armor disturbs rogues and warriors equally
weary island
no it doesnt
spark raptor
casters will be stronger relatively (assuming resistances are correct on pservers, which they probably arent)
spark raptor
it was based off AP on pservers as well
why arent furies and rogues affected by armor the same way?
weary island
MC: rogue > warrior > mage> hunter
BWL: warrior = rogue > mage
AQ40: warrior > mage = rogue
spark raptor
what are you basing that off mate?
spark raptor
i guess we're done talking if you have nothing of subtance
molten forge
You do realise you're arguing like you hated ausgelebt doing last night hipz
weary island
sorry your precious warrior was 2nd instead of 1st in MC
spark raptor
im german too, that might be it
molten forge
If you're so sure of your argument, there'll be sources stating such
spark raptor
link 1
weary island
saying the fucking same thing
molten forge
So link 1
If there are so many, I don't care at all about the argument
Just about hypocracy ^_^
weary island
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759162315
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2398559-which-classes-will-be-in-most-demand-in-Vanilla
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/946085-Most-OP-class-at-Vanilla
https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/2x54d6/vanilla_wow_which_class_for_topping_dps_meters/
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/7hl9bq/classic_wow_pve_tier_list_112/
wraith parcel
Even if rogues did more in MC, that was another patch that wasnt 1.12 like classic will be on and balance was probasbly different
molten forge
This is the first thing I found
Where these are parses from the 4th week of vanilla, where warriors are doing more
karmic hearth
and overall what was the demand for rogues in dungeons back then? any value from lockpick?
besides cc
molten forge
Damage
weary island
damage
molten forge
I'm not arguing either is better
I know nothing about vanilla
But seemingly the two were close and there's genuinly no reason to argue about it
since the difference seemed so menial anyways
spark raptor
yes, theyre close. rogue is harder to play in short fights if you wanna be perfect.
but fury in the highend guilds regardless of gearlevel, at comparable itemization will on average be stronger
there are special fights where are competent rogue will 100% dominate
lucifron in MC
shit like that
molten forge
From the source that I found, that seemed pretty true, it just seemed like warrs were doing a slight bit more damage
spark raptor
sub 20second multi target
molten forge
But not enough to warrant this shitshow of a discussion 😄
weary island
pretty dumb
molten forge
What's pretty dumb?
weary island
this "discussion"
molten forge
Seems is if though you were at the center of it, again 😄
weary island
spark raptor
the thing with warriors is, that there are some absurd items in the game that make them superior to rogues if they have them
but have fun getting them
molten forge
L E T S N O T S T A R T T H I S A G A I N
spark raptor
chanel > gucci
weary island
lol
scenic linden
Yeah. Maybe if you like shit
spark raptor
i like subtlety 
weary island
@scenic linden 
scenic linden
molten forge
vocal hornet
anyone know if 1.12 (classic patch) is merged Damage/heal or is there still + heal and +damage. for caster gear
spark raptor
"+damage" gear usually said "damage and healing" though. the only damage gear that doesnt apply to your healing is damage by spell school.
vocal hornet
I was priest main and It was miserable.
That is very un true. Raid gear was damage. Or. Healing. With a few +school
I had like +1200heal at one point. But had to wand shit to death solo. Cause raid drops went to dps classes
When it changed over I was like +600 damage heal.
spark raptor
yes, +healing gear doesnt give damage, but +damage gear gives healing
vocal hornet
Ok if true. They still wouldnt give anything with a dps mod to a priest pvp or farming. Or pretending to be shadow.
Anyway. That +heal split is prob a good reason to avoid healing this time around.
spark raptor
eh, especially once zg is out it's not hard to get decent spelldmg gear that no geared caster main wants. but during mc bwl it might be ugly indeed
vocal hornet
I tried to enjoy shadow in down times. Had 5man hear with raid handmedowns. It just wasn't enough to kill stuff. Tyrs hand farming took like a minute per mob. I'm not that bitter.
Now that I think about it. Naxx 1 was where qol was pretty bad for potion farming.
spark raptor
priest is just bad at soloing /:
weary island
most of the dmg/healing gear came with the gear additions with dire maul patch
so wont be til phase 2
delicate stone
Staff Of Dominance and Ephemeral Power trinket gonna be king till then xD
daring thunder
i thought the next wave wasn't for a few weeks
plucky nymph
Yeah there's been a couple IIRC.
daring thunder
yeah ik
raven snow
the guilds went from 20 members to 300+
daring thunder
just wasn't sure if it was one big wave or they're doing a bunch of them
raven snow
no idea but
im worried about the servers tbh
just watched asmon/esfand stream
they do wpvp in arathi
theres like 100 players
server lag as hell
plucky nymph
Seems normal.
plucky nymph
Should be fine considering the limited interactions.
spark raptor
i legit think somehow private servers perform better in "mass pvp" than retail bfa even
daring thunder
large scale wpvp is always laggy
spark raptor
had massive scale world pvp on the zulgurub buff island on kronos and nost and its way better than warmode in stormsong during those invasion type events
the latter being actually unplayable
plucky nymph
Those don't compare...
vocal hornet
@plucky nymph did cps drop when you switch targets?
plucky nymph
vocal hornet
Oh God. Even more of a St tunnel. With blade flurry popping off your St I guess.
wraith parcel
You can apparently mouseover macro and use builders on another target and get points on your main target in the beta
ruby bridge
spark raptor
Make addon sync only possible between party/raid members ty
scenic linden
Didnt they already say they'll put the kibosh to addons like this?
wraith parcel
Yes, this exact addon will probably be shutdown, which is why the description is written like a meme
But there is probably gonna be some addon that does something along these lines thats not as intrusive and will be let through
Weakauras is probably also gonna be a thing, even though a lot of #NoChanges people dont want it to
dusk crystal
doesn't feel like wa is needed for classic
scenic linden
There were a bunch of 1 and done addons that could just be in weakauras. Like the energy timer or swing timer. WA isn't real that big of a deal
hybrid zealot
It also doesnt affect anyone else.
I will play some classic but I'm not going as hard into it but imo if an addon doesnt affect other people I dont see why it matters
Not that I would use a wa for a few button rotation with downtime personally
ruby bridge
i mean in the end, if you dont want it just dont use it
dusk crystal
yea, definitely good for energy, cds and stuff.
hybrid zealot
Well ya. And imo if it doesnt affect anything it shouldnt be an issue
Like a lfg would be an issue
Wa shouldnt be tho
wraith parcel
What addons would be an issue then?
(Also you definitely can create a pseudo-lfg weakaura, its not only for tracking buff uptimes)
small belfry
let me splain something to you guys from a server infrastructure perspective
blizz only has the one pvp and one pve server up for a reason... the idea is to test one instance into the dirt to determine the load it can take
there should be lag or else they aren't getting close to capacity on that one instance
this way they can more efficiently dole out resources on release... obviously they can throw a bunch of hardware at beta and we can have a lag free experience- but that isn't the point of a stress test
hybrid zealot
I would be interested I'm how a psuedo lfg worked. Because unless it just sets up people together then it's probably not a big deal.
Now an interesting question that I saw on a reddit is loot etiquette
I saw really compelling arguments that needing a boe you cant use but could sell to buy an equivalent boe for yourself is interesting and makes sense
BoP imo isnt as interesting because that argument isnt valid. Censoring a bop will not give you the same value as a boe unless you can equip it
Thoughts
lyric cradle
I think that is poor reasoning if someone in the group will use that item
cause many great items in vanilla are boe
but I guess that is why you group with people you know instead of randos 😛
raven snow
still no beta omegalul
hybrid zealot
Well ya this is all assuming randos.
And I thought that it was a bad argument but the logic imo is strong
Unlike a bop a boe has the same value to everyone
Equipped or not.
Plus it's a random drop. Not one that is expected in a normal pug relationship
With bop and bosses you know what can and cant drop. You basically imo agree it has more worth to anyone who can equip then doesnt. But logically none of that applies to boe
lyric cradle
in a pug its kind of a free for all
it sucks to not get something but its ultimately your choice to pug
normal scarab
anyone have any resources for beta add-ons? I found some listed on wctavern, just not familiar with that particular site and its reputability
lyric cradle
I would be pretty surprised if you couldn't get them from curse
Though I doubt many classic addons have been developed yet
normal scarab
I've seen recount being used on Stream today at the very least
lyric cradle
Some addons from live probably work since they kinda reverse engineered classic from live
rapid night
Addon Resources for Classic Beta:
normal scarab
nice ty
rapid night
What I'm using atm. Haven't gotten Weakauras working, but I know it does (just haven't put time in to try again)
normal scarab
looks great
twilit palm
@wraith parcel yeah
thing is, crit immunity wasnt worth teh effort at some point
since the much more important issue was getting spellhitcap to not miss taunts
so youd usually get rid of of some defensegear to get more spellhit
wraith parcel
Since you're crit immune while blocking (shield block) anyway, it doesnt really matter to get the defense
wraith parcel
Except for against many small adds
twilit palm
it just pushed everything further down on the attack table somewhat consistently
youd still die if you got crit twice back to back
but yeah, warrior could live it, so could protpally/feral. if you got unlucky youd still die. the taunt missing issue became really troublesome in aq/naxx
where tankswaps didnt have long windows
up until aq tankswaps needed to happen within like 10-15s, in aq/naxx they needed to be much more precise
but yeah, blocking didnt just straightup make you immune to crits
just pushed everything below it so far down the attacktable
midnight gust
I thought bosses were taunt immune?
twilit palm
that they couldnt be rolled on the 1-100 avoidance roll anymore
wraith parcel
Doesnt it go in order? So if you block it wont crit
If you parry it wont crit either for example
twilit palm
it assigna numeric value from 1-100 for the attack roll
if you have 20% chance to be missed
thats 1-20
then 30% dodge, thats 21-50 etc.
if you got to 100 before you would have to allocate "crit"
the mob could not crit you
due to the level difference, that basically meant that you needed a combined chance of 102.4%
wraith parcel
Well with shieldblock up you have close to 100% block
wraith parcel
And you can block 2 attacks every 5 seconds, so unless the mob is attacking really fast you cant get crit back to back
twilit palm
and attackrating
since it allowed you to push glancing blows off the attack-table
i think most bosses either had 1.5 or 2sec swingtimers
so yeah, warrior is the clear winner
protpally can get somewhat close due to holyshield
wraith parcel
Well, druids have more threat and armor 🤷
twilit palm
since you had 30% block from holyshield, 10sec cd, 4charges
ye
feral sucks in MC
but once you get BWL gear which has a lot of bonus armor stuff
feral is really damn beefy
wraith parcel
Wat, most armor things are pre-bis
trinkets/weapons/rings with armor dont come from raid
twilit palm
think there was a staff with bonus armor in BWL, and a bunch of other pieces who had most of their statbudget go to armor instead of agi/str
wraith parcel
Yeah but the trinkets and rings n stuff are from pre-bis, i've heard the opposite that druid get worse since warriors scale better
twilit palm
but im not too knowledgeable on feral, just some stuff i retained from our fc who said that raiding bwl is kinda of a must
so maybe he had different priorities than raid-tanking feral as well
wraith parcel
Same with feral dps, since their bis weapon is from gnomergan and their bis helm is a lvl 40 crafted item 😄
twilit palm
btw, think you meant pre-raid and not pre-bis? 😄
wraith parcel
Ye mb
twilit palm
😄
well
ill enjoy the warlock life
classic rogue was kinda boring
not sure which faction yet
lyric cradle
im considering warlock as well but soul shards... give me nightmares
twilit palm
id love to know which faction will have more players
so i can choose the other one
wdym
thats part of the reason i choose wl
having to get shards before raid
lyric cradle
i hate having to devote a whole bag to them
twilit palm
aka going out with a bunch of guildies or friends to kill mobs before raid, having some fun
actually socializing in the game
well
lyric cradle
plus im OCD so i always try to keep the bag full
twilit palm
for MC you dont really need shards
since theres plenty of trash before the first boss
its only for BWL where its kind of a pain
wraith parcel
You need to get the lasthit with your drain soul though
Which is hard to have happen in a ~40 man raid
twilit palm
psure we get the updated version
wraith parcel
Its not like that on beta
twilit palm
not sure when they updated drainsoul to always grant one
twilit palm
mhye, not sure when they changed it to say "during its effect"
thought it was during classic already since i remember our WLs not getting shards pre-raid for aq/naxx anymore
wraith parcel
I have literally no idea, but i've seen people complain about having to get the last hit on the beta
twilit palm
i seem to rememebr that was a bug last year already too
where your pet killing a mob wouldnt grant shards
but other players doing it would work normally
lyric cradle
i cant find when it was changed even with the power of google
twilit palm
im psure it was always the case
that as long as the target was worth experience/honor and you were succing, youd get a shard
lyric cradle
i didn't find where someone made a macro to have their pet stop attacking when they cast drain soul
twilit palm
the reason you farmed shards before raids was due to summoning stones not being a thing y et
so you had to summon 30+ people
which cost you 30 shards
the pet would also screw with the DS talent
lyric cradle
hm so it sounds like it didn't work with improved drain soul for the mana unless you got the killing blow but couldn't find anything about the shards themselves
twilit palm
its the same mechanic, pets always sucked with shards
which is why you pull back pet at 10%
most drainsoul macros had two lines coded into it that pulled back the pet and removed any surplus soulshards
lyric cradle
my old WIP twink pally https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/jubeithos/astera
i kinda wonder what some of the stats used to be on that gear lol
daring thunder
A lot of hit probably
lyric cradle
maybe, its kinda crazy how many changes gear and enchants have went through
daring thunder
Tbh I think vers is an unnecessary stat
wraith parcel
It definitely is, but i also think 3 stats is too few
So they cant really remove it imo
daring thunder
Would've much preferred multistrike to stay if they made it less broken
wraith parcel
Tbf i think there should be more than 4 stats too, but then again, having more stats that arent interesting isnt really good either
lyric cradle
i think they would have been fine if they had given some use to overcapping them
maybe like a % damage increase like vers
ivory pagoda
that would be too good for a blizzard game
wraith parcel
I think they will learn a lot from seeing people play classic again and hopefully take some of it into retail
lyric cradle
i wont hold my breath
dusk crystal
if they don't I'd say all hope for future expansions is lost
plucky nymph
waow, much failure
dusk crystal
Better off making TBC servers to keep sub count up 
hybrid zealot
I highly disagree with most of that but it is just an opinion
hexed berry
it should certainly provide them with some very interesting data, which if I understand correctly, data like that for vanilla simply doesn't exist (and is not 100% relevant to today's market). I think they'd be foolish not to consider what people like and dislike in classic when developing new products, but how that actually manifests in future expansions would maybe not be completely obvious.
bright matrix
weary island
level 5 cap
wraith parcel
Its 2 hours with massive amounts of people, you're not gonna get much further than that anyway 😄
hybrid zealot
it is just a stress test. nothing is more stressful than everyone stuck in similar areas doing similar things
dusk crystal
They should just let everyone in for this , how many ppl are actually gonna bother
ruby bridge
i mean 2h should be plenty to get a first impression
ebon grail
dusk crystal
lvl 5 world pvp would be 
too bad it won't happen . Huge raids lmao
true stress test
ebon grail
inb4 they won't seperate the actual beta dudes with level 30s and mighty level 5s get farmed
fathom gale
i guess it's a little related to classic (sort of) but when i was looking at my char on the armory
'120 elf of the night rogue murser'
murder* lol
weak salmon
Could someone translate stress test times to EU time please? :)
Apparently it's 1 am CEST (and 2 am my local). No classic for me :(
dusk crystal
not surprising
shit time for EU
should do another test on saturday when people can actually play
pallid pivot
How comparable is combat to hemo around 40?
Thinking about how often I need to respect for guild
Gold*
dusk crystal
quite sure combat is better for leveling
but i can be wrong 100%
blade flurry and stuff is useful
lyric cradle
dusk crystal
small belfry
Are there going to be pvp balance changes or are we just expected to roll one of three classes
plucky nymph
Correct.
wraith parcel
There are no balance changes no. There are 9 classes though 🤔
lyric cradle
maybe they meant 3 races lol
scenic linden
He meant 3 classes cause of rock paper scissors.
wraith parcel
And which classes would that be? Since literally every class is useful, especially in pvp
scenic linden
Rogue is scissors, Warrior is rock, and everyone else is paper.
Scissors beats paper and beats rock until he gets geared enough and then just hides from rock
wraith parcel
Which is a dumb meme thats just false 🤷
scenic linden
plucky nymph
uhhuh
fallen panther
imagine having no aoe 
fallen panther
raven snow
8 people in my guild got beta access 15min ago
most of them signed for beta today btw
bright matrix
Is it not the stress test?
raven snow
guess im not worthy 
plucky nymph
fuck
raven snow
well no idea, they said they got classic access
meanwhile im here playing this game for over 10 years
havent gotten to beta once
ever
bright matrix
Maybe its both 🤔
raven snow
p sure its both
bright matrix
raven snow
We’ll also be adding a significant number of players to the stress test from the pool of people who have already opted in for the beta but have not yet been selected.
from what I understand
u get both
Since the same client is used for both our stress test users and our normal beta users, the name in the Battle.net App has changed to “Beta & Stress Test: WoW Classic .
well this confirms it
plucky nymph
GRRRRRRRRRAJ
bright matrix
I assume if i can log in its full
weary island
tfw ur account was created day 1 of vanilla and you're on a friends and family list and still don't have beta 
raven snow
since they said you'll not be able to go out of "big zones" that they plan to do stress' in
so only 4GB download seems like it's only few selected zones and that's it
bright matrix
Behave now i want to afk and level 
plucky nymph
Classic.
lyric cradle
yeah and 3 months until release seems like a really long time 
plucky nymph
Source?
molten forge
How long is a "phase"
plucky nymph
IIRC they're meant to be "seasonal".
molten forge
So like 2-3 months?
plucky nymph
2-4 probably yeah.
wraith parcel
Whenever people feel like they have no content left they will release a new phase is what they said
So not something specific, just whenever it feels right to them
molten forge
Fair enough
plucky nymph
Well they're also designed to give you about that amount of time to complete things.
Some people will be faster, some slower, etc.
P2 being a rather long term Phase, at least the things in it are long-term.
P3 is a biggo though.
molten forge
I know it's super early, but have they said how they're doing with expacs?
wraith parcel
Maybe if people want it
plucky nymph
If Vanilla sees "enough" interest, they will do more.
wraith parcel
Is what they said
molten forge
yeah that makes sense
plucky nymph
@vocal hornet Something important in regards to CP,
Mouseover abilities on a second target don't drop CP on primary target.
Something that will probably be changed.
raven snow
not sure whats the source @plucky nymph
found it on one of classic discords
might aswell be fan made 🤷
plucky nymph
mmm
plucky nymph
Seems reasonable.
If there were a source I'd like it just in case of changes though, of course.
plucky nymph
More importantly - https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/classic-content-plan/120346
Though that wowhead chart should update as things change.
plucky nymph
w o o
errant timber
didn't get one yet?
raven snow
nope
errant timber
rip
plucky nymph
Yeah but odds are stress invites are food each wave.
drowsy phoenix
will the beta client be useful in my download of the launch client?
drowsy phoenix
I did get the beta option but idk if it's full access or stress test only
52 gigs at 400 kbps is a doozy
drowsy phoenix
maybe it'll go down once it "fetches" all the indices
plucky nymph
Yeah it should copy any files it needs from the core directory.
drowsy phoenix
no wait im a total goon I saw beta and thought it meant classic
this is one of my worst blizz launcher moments
I feel a tad ashamed
drowsy phoenix
what kinda 8.8 stuff am I getting a peek at lol
plucky nymph
Meanwhile my client won't update > _>" bluzzyrd
raven snow
i have nothing to update anwyay 🤷
seriously i was so hyped to play beta and grind
and all i can do is watch streamers
lime arrow
It's for the best tbh
Imagine spending all that time to have ur character wiped
Wasting ur rng on good drops before live even comes out
vocal hornet
@plucky nymph well shit. looks like they fixed the mouseover stuff
plucky nymph
Good 
vocal hornet
gives me invalid target, and
i can still gen cps on an off target which is weird
they dont apply to my current target
plucky nymph
That's fine IMO, as it doesn't let you Blind someone without losing CP on primary.
vocal hornet
so when the primary dies, I still have cps on the 2nd guy, but cant Evisc either cause invalid target
plucky nymph
You can proc crippling or something but w/e
drowsy phoenix
it gave me a bfa load screen and cinematic but im not allowed to log in and classic music is playing
plucky nymph
hahaha
drowsy phoenix
I checked hots PTR and the blue stripe says PTR there but beta for wow
so blizz is hardcore trolling me
plucky nymph
lol
You restarted your client I assume, some silly stuff going on over there it seems.
drowsy phoenix
yeah I restarted bnet launcher, same thing
this guy showed up if it means anything
oh I got a split second no realms available on this new option before telling me I;ve been disconnected
but I still cant tell if stress test or anomaly
drowsy phoenix
okay so I got an update for my bnet launcher and everything's normalized
it now reads beta and stress test
plucky nymph
Yeah I did as well just now.
plucky nymph
lol
dense ingot
Same 😃
weary island
@lime arrow u can only play for 2 hours not 2 days
nvm i read the bluepost wrong
u can play until may 23 ~6pm PDT
but level cap still at 5 lol
hybrid zealot
Ya it's just a stress test
fading matrix
Heard a rumor that frontstabbing won’t be a thing in classic. Can someone confirm?
ivory pagoda
I mean, you can't use backstab from the front if that's what you mean
fading matrix
I mean the mechanic of strafing left and right through mobs to get backstabs off from „behind“
dusk crystal
doubt it works
I mean they just turn with you ..
go combat swords if you want to avoid headaches
fading matrix
Guess so
mellow sequoia
yes its been fixed
streamers have confirmed
that was just a private server thing
acoustic heath
if you don't level in a group you should go combat anyway
dusk crystal
yea, going daggers is literal masochist
or should I say assa. Combat daggers is a thing after all
hidden basin
vocal hornet
did combat use Fat slow sword MH and fast sword offhand, or was the offhand super fast dagger a thing?
vocal hornet
still not sure If I should push our guys horde or alliance. GM wants to play Ret. some want dorf priests. others want to be shamans and undead
plucky nymph
¯_(ツ)_/¯
If you care about raiding you won't be in your own guild more than likely after MC.
plucky nymph
The people willing to raid decent hours are going to dry up quickly I believe.
plucky nymph
We're probably going to end up with larger guilds having multiple raid teams and people filling in.
vocal hornet
rip my main man.
I liked tier set mog. You could tell who was a baller for the time.
plucky nymph
NO RIP HERE BOYO
vocal hornet
esp around naxx1.
plucky nymph
Yeah easily.
lyric cradle
Blizzard have announced that the invites for today's stress test have all gone out, with a reminder there are more tests coming, as well as clarified how exactly the general invite process works. Also, unfortunately fir everyone that doesn't have one yet, they're also sending out fewer and fewer beta invites, as they're nearing their goals for current testing.
vocal hornet
lots of running, and hearth is 60min
errant timber
OK what race to make
shadow tapir
What class you playing?
daring thunder
death knight
shadow tapir
Def human then 😄
daring thunder
probably going to be a rogue and go around ganking with a mate
shadow tapir
Gotta be undead then
hybrid zealot
trying to decide between hunter, warrior and rogue
shadow tapir
Anyone know if this will pop online automatically or will I need to log out and in?
molten forge
Stress test already in full effect 
raven snow
im in queue for beta access : )
shadow tapir
Yeah it booted me off the realm screen, almost there lol
raven snow
people apparently can't create characters for now
shadow tapir
Well that stinks
wraith parcel
Login servers are full
The authentic classic experience
shadow tapir
Yup lol
DCed as connecting to server this time, 2.6k in queue
Guess thats what this is for though
errant timber
keeps timing out creation for me
weary island
gathering data 
shadow tapir
Fourth time
errant timber
same
lime arrow
Good
errant timber
that is the point of a stress test
lime arrow
That's the whole point of this test to discover this and fix it now
lime arrow
Yeah if it happens in classic launch we can blame them
raven snow
servers just died
errant timber
having thousands of people trying to connect at once will kill things
lime arrow
They've made a lot of changes to the game throughout expansion launches to deal with this. They likely want to see how they can adapt for classic
Can't imagine it's an easy fix since they have had issues every expansion until bfa
BFA was the first one I've been through since wotlk that wasn't fucked somehow
Every other launch had some sort of issue I experienced
wraith parcel
Probably due to there being 3 different zones