assassination

[balmy condor]

@sage sierra #pvp for that

[urban marsh]

If Well-placed Steel is +44%, together with doomblade leg. we'll probably have some interesting Envenoms, specially for pvp

And also Kyrian with a 7cp envenom

[balmy condor]

Yeah but zoldyck just better usually :P

Don’t know bout pvp

Not the channel for it

[urban marsh]

yea, but Zoldyck is only 0.1% better, not much difference

[balmy condor]

Yeah

I’m saying the execute is more desirable in most circumstances

[royal halo]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[royal halo]

@vestal wren Is there sim for outlaw and sub?

[vestal wren]

i am not sure what you ask for

the spreadsheet has a lot of sims for all 3 specs

[royal halo]

@vestal wren I noticed you posted With Bis setup for sin. I was wondering if there was something equivalent.

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923750073499648

[vestal wren]

that link does not work

[royal halo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/775292563019661332/ass.png

This is what I meant.

[vestal wren]

every channel has this in the pins

[royal halo]

Thanks!

[royal lantern]

thats some passive aggresive fuu stuff

[vestal wren]

but its all in the spreadsheet too

[balmy condor]

.... ?

[frigid kestrel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[frigid kestrel]

Fuu is a fucking National Treasure

[balmy condor]

Who needs to sim when you have a fuu

[royal lantern]

fuu is the AI in the sims

[supple compass]

is shiv a part of the rotation rn

[fleet whale]

not in pre patch no

as soon as you hit level 58, yes

[balmy condor]

Damn varo speedy today

[royal lantern]

fastest redname in the west

[fleet whale]

i miss having a green name 😦

[pliant apex]

Is assa going to be competitive with subtlety in SL? Or is the difference going to be big

[balmy condor]

Not right now

But good chance they give sin a buff and it’s all gravy

[pliant apex]

But eventually you think subtlety rogue will always get better parse?

[balmy condor]

Parse is done by spec

So there’s not really a better or worse parse

[pliant apex]

But the other sub rogue in my guide will always fare better

Right

Guild

[balmy condor]

As of now, yes

[pliant apex]

Sub is way more technical and honestly not relaxing at all

Assa seems so right

[balmy condor]

Sub has a good flow imo

But it’s not for everyone

[fleet whale]

i find sub's complexity to be overhyped

[pliant apex]

But it’s hard

Yea

[fleet whale]

but that's just me

[pliant apex]

I’m finding it very complex

[balmy condor]

Yeah I don’t think it’s particularly difficult either

But we all learn differently

So w/e

[fleet whale]

i think people put a mental block on sub

[pliant apex]

Outlaw doesn’t seem useful at all in SL?

[fleet whale]

nah outlaw is good

[balmy condor]

Outlaw is m+

[pliant apex]

Raids too ?

Ahh yea

[balmy condor]

And good enough in raids

[fleet whale]

should be fine in raids

[balmy condor]

It’s just like it is now

[fleet whale]

well right now

it has higher st than sin

lol

[pliant apex]

But assa better than outlaw on raids

[balmy condor]

Well

Yeah

Outlaw single target is better

But like on the grand scale of rogue

Outlaw isn’t the single target spec

[pliant apex]

Man wish hunters weren’t boring, mm is so easy and so is bm

[balmy condor]

It’s just outlaw

[frigid kestrel]

Sub seems pretty easy to me. It’s like Sin, but with something extra.

But, I can relate anything to sin

[balmy condor]

Blue name

Traitor!

[frigid kestrel]

Idk why my name is even blue

[balmy condor]

Sub takes prio

[frigid kestrel]

Wack

[balmy condor]

I mean, discord has to put them in some kind of order

Sub happens to be the one on top

[frigid kestrel]

It wasn’t always like this

Cause I hit every role from my first day.

Now I feel dirty

[balmy condor]

Might be some reshuffling idk

I’m sure @shrewd night would hear our completely valid and definitely not meaningless complaint

[frigid kestrel]

The hell changed in the pins? Every other day the shit has a red dot. I can’t keep up with this.

[balmy condor]

Updated sims

[frigid kestrel]

Ahh

[balmy condor]

Fuu just updates all the pictures and stuff and then puts all the pins back in the right order

And sweeps up all the evidence before anyone can notice

[frigid kestrel]

He’s been sling a lot of that lately. I see a red dot and then red through everything trying to guess what’s different. Most of the times I find it, but certain times I’m lost.

Keep telling myself to log back in beta and test things out, but I’m at the point of total boardem now. We use Night Fae ability on cd I’m assuming?

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s hard to tell sometimes cause it’s the same pictures but with different numbers

Yeah on cd

[frigid kestrel]

Or is their a certain time in the rotation to use it?

Thought so

[balmy condor]

With tb

I think

I’d have to check apl

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

Might test it out when I get home...... if like, my mind will let me press buttons and stuff.

Overall grand scheme of things we still behind sub by like %5? Or is my memory messing with me and it’s a %10+ different (speaking ST)

[jovial haven]

17%

3000 vs 3500 at sim ilvl

[frigid kestrel]

Yeesh

[jovial haven]

I would say sin will get buffed and be fine as it plays close to the same as before (though shrouded suffocation will be missed in m+). But they left sub under tuned for most of bfa

So who knows

[shrewd night]

@balmy condor

[low girder]

i thought sepsis wasn't buffed by shiv

i can't keep all the beta builds straight without beta access

[balmy condor]

The dot is buffed, the final hit is not

iirc

[low girder]

ah

[balmy condor]

It was missing a whitelist for most of beta

And then got added

[vestal wren]

!bugs is a good way to keep up with the changes

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue

[fleet whale]

Improved poisons rank 2 appears to be fixed in the latest beta build, or i am extremely lucky

I guess this is a hot take from me, and it's too late for such a change for this expansion but:

I would have assassin go all in on poisons, and build the spec around poisons/nature damage with a baseline execute

have mastery increase just poison damage again and have it scale up faster, and rupture/garrote would be there for energy regen

and venomous wounds would deal a bit of nature damage itself

[drifting cosmos]

Rolling back to legion?

I think their idea is keep bleed relevant, more than just for energy

[fleet whale]

kind of, but with new poison stuff i haven't thought of yet

and no, I'm personally not a fan of the bleed focus of assassin, i think it's caused more issues

[drifting cosmos]

Yea same, ggg is like the my least favourite part of the spec

[fleet whale]

numbers aside, assassination is in sort of an awkward spot in SL

[drifting cosmos]

But guess what, ggg does most of your dmg

[fleet whale]

The second of its talent tree is quite poor

[drifting cosmos]

No doubt about that

I think if there is any chart, we would prob be bottom half of the pack

[fleet whale]

playing beta, i can def feel that that blizz did not put much attention to the spec

poisons back for sub and outlaw meant that sin lost utility in a way

[drifting cosmos]

I was looking for rogue changes everytime when I check news, but mostly seeing dh changes...

[fleet whale]

DH changes aren't even good

[drifting cosmos]

That's why they keep doing it, cater for the larger playerbase while not making it too op

Which is hard

So is it true most ppl can get legendary on 2nd or 3rd week after 120?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[drifting cosmos]

So legendary is more like a default gear, no luck or anything

[balmy condor]

Legendaries are crafted

Via an npc

You farm the materials and the drop for the legendary you want

And then go to the npc

And he smashes it together into the item

[fleet whale]

I wonder how expensive the template pieces will be

[balmy condor]

Depends how easy they are to craft

[drifting cosmos]

How easy is it on beta

[fleet whale]

ok i'll confess this thing in bfa

i bought a wow token, just so i could get fathoms

from the ah in early bfa

[drifting cosmos]

Well if were gonna remake legendary items later in the expansion, prob worth getting an alt just for profession

[fleet whale]

were not remaking them

[drifting cosmos]

Oh

[fleet whale]

once you make one your done, and you can upgrade the ilvl

[drifting cosmos]

That's good then

I thought we have to remake higher ilvl base item

And to remake it again

[fleet whale]

nah, i think you can choose to make it at a higher ilvl

but even if you don't you can upgrade it

At least that's how i think it works

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk

I don’t think the upgrade stuff is on beta

But they said you would just upgrade it ez pz and be done

So

[mental trout]

What’s entry ilvl for a M+ 15 right now?

[balmy condor]

You mean the loot that drops?

[steel ridge]

It drops 120, so in a linear progression kind of sense you should be 110-115 but thats offset by ability.

[low girder]

If you're well below that, pre-expansion event starts tomorrow, easy ilvl 100 gear.

Tomorrow for NA, Wednesday for EU

[stuck lodge]

Anyone know if the roaming rares start tomorrow as well, or is it just the invasion and some quests?

[balmy condor]

Probably rares with the invasion

I would assume

[stuck lodge]

Well the rares are in icecrown and the invasion is in SW and Org

[steel ridge]

The invasion is gonna be a pain in the ass

[fallow otter]

You can choose to just ignore it i think

[fleet whale]

yeah i think if you don't have warmode on

the ghouls can't do shit to you

[steel ridge]

thanks for the hint!

cant be interupted just standing in front of the AH

[deft vault]

the gear is 120 ilvl ????

i thought it dropped 100 ilvl gear

[steel ridge]

we were talking about Mythic +15

[low girder]

Yeah event is 100

[sick scarab]

wondering why sepsis conduit is not considered it sims so bad ?

[balmy condor]

there's better options

[sick scarab]

y y i see

just wondering why and asking myself.. wtf blizz .. sepsis conduit should be like a "signature" conduit .. dunno if i can explain it well 🙂 my english sucks 🙂

and for legendaries i see the the pins.. so alwyas go zoldyck ?

[balmy condor]

atm yes

[lament dove]

how the other 8-9 other legendaries must feel that were put into the game and will not be used...

[fallow otter]

Nah its not like that

Some shine in different areas

And situations

[fossil slate]

Plus if blizzard is anything to go by they'll likely do something to either horrendously buff or need different ones as the xpac goes on

[versed mica]

So, does subterfuge not work with Sepsis?

When I get my stealth buff and use garrote, it doesn't consume it, and gives garrote a CD

[balmy condor]

correct

sepsis just gives you the ability to cast stealth abilities

it does not grant the combat effects of stealth

such as nightstalker, subterfuge, master assassin (both from the legendary, as well as the talent)

[versed mica]

bleh. It's better so it doesn't throw you out of combat, but it's also worse at the same time

except for the damage

[shadow tulip]

I'd rather throw you out of combat, but give garrote enhanced dmg

[shrewd night]

I dont see the problem of copy-pasting the stealth effects from shadowdance onto the sepsis thing tbh

Probably some 🍝

[sick scarab]

@balmy condor "sepsis just gives you the ability to cast stealth abilities it does not grant the combat effects of stealth" WTF really ? WTF LOL jesus blizzard...

[frigid kestrel]

Uggg I havnt played this game in literal weeks (a little over a month) and our raid lead want to start up raiding again tonight to dust off the team........ I don’t even know what to do. I’ve only been on beta

We don’t ambush at all currently, so it’s just old school Mut build right?

DD stacking .... wait pins

Ignore me and carry on

[placid dawn]

its exactly the same as before except you dont have TB

and once every minute you press SnD

[frigid kestrel]

uhh this is why i stopped playing, rotation is boring as

No TB, no Ct, no ambush

Just Mut, Envenom, and Refresh Bleeds.

[dry atlas]

then play sub

[frigid kestrel]

Imagine that lol

What enchants are we using, dont see that in pins, unless i overlooked

[delicate bone]

no reason trying to drive yourself nuts just for 2 weeks for everything to change once SL drops lol

[dry atlas]

Sim yourself for enchants

[low steeple]

Can i ask you guys a question?besides thid one ofc

When to use ambush exactly?

[shadow tulip]

Doesn't that do more dmg then mut?

Going by the tooltip, ambush deals more dmg

But amubush is situational

Once leaving stealth or using blindside

[scarlet meteor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

Quick question: how is assassination performing in Shadowlands (PvE)?

[jaunty arrow]

Not great not terrible

[strange python]

I see. Got a character boost, but don't want to waste it. I was interested in fury warrior, but the spec isn't performing well. Actually, it is at the bottom of every DPS chart I saw

[opaque bay]

Levelling to 50 takes hardly any time at all anyway

wouldnt worry

[strange python]

Thing is I don't have much time right now due to work. That is why I'm so hesitant about boosting :(
Since sub got nerfed, I have been wondering if assassination became more desirable or at least well accepted

[delicate trench]

did prepatch hit NA ?

[dry atlas]

If you're here asking these questions then those DPS charts don't matter much to you so play whatever

[delicate trench]

what charts ? i just wanna know if the patch is up or no

[balmy condor]

Prepatch did hit NA, yes

I don’t think he was talking to you about charts :P

[strange python]

Fair point, spike$
Assassination it is, then
Thank you for the honesty

[placid egret]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[jagged axle]

is the 15% energy regen still being slapped onto rank 2 of slice and dice for ass?

[shadow tulip]

I can't really comprehend that spreadsheat, lul

[balmy condor]

yes

the energy regen is still the rank 2

[jagged axle]

ass lookin really slow in sl kinda worried about it

would suck if they were behind sub the whole xpac

[balmy condor]

sin looking slow is back to where sin usually is

8.3 sin is the outlier

[strange python]

to be fair end of legion sin was super fast too, it just scales in that way

[balmy condor]

not sure about super fast

but it was faster, yeah

end of legion was about as fast as 8.2

iirc

and 8.2 was only a couple apm faster than uldir as well

[fleet whale]

end of legion was about 40 to 41 APM but you got so many 4cp mutilates

so it felt really smooth

[balmy condor]

yeah

[fleet whale]

with blindside, snd energy regen, and alac

assassin apm won't be that terrible

relatively speaking

[balmy condor]

well its still around 40-45 apm

even with those

but It'll be fine

[fleet whale]

yeah, but it's not like 34

or some shit

[balmy condor]

I think 40-45 is perfectly normal for sin

anything higher than 50 is pretty fast

[fleet whale]

yeah, that range is fine to me

i wasn't a fan of APM capped assassin honestly

[balmy condor]

ye

it was fun for a little

but it got old

[fleet whale]

I think a bit more damage could be added to mutilate, and perhaps envenom as well

but mainly mut, i think a 50 energy ability should hit a little harder

[fallow otter]

i wasn't a fan of APM capped assassin honestly
@fleet whale whatttt?

How can you guys think such things?

Lol

[fleet whale]

it completely took energy out of the equation

i miss the assassination that was methodical with big mutilate crits

[fallow otter]

You like dead time sit around doing fuck so waiting for energy bars?

[fleet whale]

I liked the methodical style of assassination, that was especially present in Antorus

especially with stuff like Kingsbane ramping up damage

[fallow otter]

Kingsbane mini game was fun

But dead time specs suck

[fleet whale]

odd you play rogue then lol

energy based classes have deadtime most of the time

[fallow otter]

But it just doesn't

It did

And does now

But it didn't for a bunch of this

And it was great

[fleet whale]

idk, i don't want sin to be apm capped, which means our envenoms and mutilates hit like noodles

[hasty kraken]

For the opener (w/ Subterfuge), why do we start with Garrote > Rupture > Garrote?

oh additional CP

right?

cause of Shrouded Suffocation

[balmy condor]

also pandemics the garrote

[hasty kraken]

i see

so should i do it without shrouded suff?

seems to be a difference if you're getting 1 CP instead of 3

maybe i should just use master assassin then

for single target

mm

[balmy condor]

without ss you only garrote once

[mental trout]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h6Ok4XVVmw&feature=emb_logo

i dont understand, the 8th M+ drops. he said the ilvl will be capped to M6. does that mean the keys are capped at M6, or can you still do higher keys but only get a capped loot?

[balmy condor]

capped loot

usually

[mental trout]

so you can still complete a 15 for you great vault?

[balmy condor]

sure, but the loot will still be capped

[hasty kraken]

I just simmed myself and the sample log doesn't seem to bother with 2x empowered garrotes out of stealth for pandemic; I'm wondering if that's because I don't have Shrouded Suffocation? It is, however, using ambush, unlike what is shown in the opener on Icy Veins. I'm thinking it's probably best to use Garrote > Ambush > Garrote (for pandemic) within Subterfuge, but I'm wondering if I'm wrong because the sim doesn't do that. Maybe I just don't do the 2nd garrote unless I have Shrouded Suffocation?

[balmy condor]

correct

[hasty kraken]

I figure Ambush is not listed for use with Shrouded suffocation cause you get 3 CP

from garrote

[balmy condor]

without ss you only garrote once
@balmy condor

[hasty kraken]

ok, thanks

[strange python]

ss not getting baked in is a crime

[low girder]

in some ways i agree, in others i wish they looked at the other two talents in the row

[strange python]

if ss was there instead of venom rush, would that compete with alac enough?

would probably just take over as the go to

[balmy condor]

dunno

would be some pretty hard feely craft

[strange python]

alacrity is a pretty fat trait

[indigo thicket]

is assass looking much worse off than the others? having trouble choosing a ms

[balmy condor]

10-15% worse than sub in tuning atm

but it plays just like sin always has in the past

slow and steady dot class

the tuning will come later hopefully

[fleet whale]

SS as a talent honestly isn't really that exciting tbh

[balmy condor]

yeah idk either

I personally think subt and SS should be baked in baseline

[fleet whale]

they could give us 2 cp garrote from stealth baseline

or that is also an option

[balmy condor]

but there's a lot of things that I want

[hasty kraken]

Should I delay Vendetta a few sec if Rup/SnD are dropping off and should I delay it further to pool energy?

[fleet whale]

Blizz needs to take a good look at assassin, and it ain't just about tuning

mainly with the last two talent rows

[balmy condor]

delaying usually isn't worth it

[fleet whale]

just fire off vendetta

[balmy condor]

yeah

[fleet whale]

you'll get the energy to refresh rupture snd

[hasty kraken]

ok

[balmy condor]

pooling also isn't a thing

[fleet whale]

i wish it was a thing

but sadly it isnt

like i remember a perk in wod that made mutilate deal more damage when you had the envenom buff up

like not that it was huge but it was something at least

[balmy condor]

you mean, double dose?

[fleet whale]

well this thing wasn't rng

[low girder]

[fleet whale]

it was just a flat buff to mut, and dispatch

[low girder]

i only really remember the SND one

[fleet whale]

our old execute ability

[balmy condor]

we only reuse ideas in this channel varo gtfo

[fleet whale]

lol, as i'm reusing wod shit

[balmy condor]

[fleet whale]

like they baked cold blood into vendetta as another perk

so your first direct ability after vendetta was a crit

[fleet whale]

that perk must have been removed or flat out awful

cause i never had CT on my action bar lol

[low girder]

i think it was like 8 targets or something

idk

before it was worth

[fleet whale]

yeah, and also

if you aoe'd in wod, you went combat lol

no target cap on blade flurry, and blade flurry able to multistrike

[low girder]

combat's perks were insane lol

sub only had one really good one

[fleet whale]

combat had sub par ST but godly AoE

blizz sort of expected all rogues to change specs fight to fight

[balmy condor]

remember when we had shadow reflection

in the last row

[fleet whale]

i do too

[low girder]

yeah

[fleet whale]

not a huge fan tbh

[balmy condor]

and it copied vendetta and shit

lmao

[low girder]

it was fun in pvp

in pve very boring

[fleet whale]

the shadow was a dumbass sometimes

especially on blackhand

but on the plus side of that last row

Venom rush was kind of interesting lol

higher base energy, and your energy regen was increased

for each target poisoned, up to three

[low girder]

reading through combat's perks again is so nuts. lol. 20% more damage in deep insight, removed target cap on flurry, removed dual wield penalty, and deadly poison became instant poison

nutty

[fleet whale]

DP to instant poison wasn't really a perk

they just didn't want combat to have any dots

but the insight thing was insane

i remember some fun times on the train boss in BRF

[hasty kraken]

So I've been tracking Elaborate Planning and Envenom buff; I find myself constantly choosing between dropping an Envenom to either get 10% damage boost or waiting a bit for Envenom buff to drop first for more uptime. Any thoughts?

[balmy condor]

don't worry about it

[hasty kraken]

im gonna tho

[fleet whale]

you don't have to

0 dps increase

like i don't even think the sims worry about that shit

[low girder]

that's the pooling thing discussed earlier. like you can do it, but you're gaining like 5 dps at most

[hasty kraken]

Well I figure, at least when there's nothing else to pay attention to, i might as well

i like min/maxing

[fleet whale]

a lucky crit

will make you do more dps than optimal pooling

[hasty kraken]

yes but a lucky crit + optimal pooling is better

cant apply luck unfairly to one side

[fleet whale]

on paper, yes

but i can almost guarantee

a very high majority of sin logs

don't care about pooling

[balmy condor]

if you want the ultimate minx max, maximize for envenom uptime first as long as you're not overcapping

then you can worry bout ep

[hasty kraken]

ok

[low girder]

where koji quote

Turns out you can really just mash buttons randomly as Assassination 10% of the time and it really doesn't matter 😛

[balmy condor]

yea

[low girder]

always relevant

[fleet whale]

like even back in like MoP and Wod, where pooling was more important

it was still a minor dps increase lol

[balmy condor]

I was looking at a possible increase

forget what

and he implemented

and it was completely neutral lmao

[low girder]

i mean hitting shiv on cd vs not having it on your bar

was what

2%

[balmy condor]

3 I think

[low girder]

like lol

[fleet whale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x9ywkEaCWv97MAyU2vN5PJ

like check the html

and see all that pooling done lol

0.2 seconds

of pooling

[balmy condor]

kinda sick

I wonder why it pools for 0.2 sec

XD

[fleet whale]

it's always a low number

even with really low haste, it only amounts to like 2 seconds of pooling

granted it's also a 3 min sim, so i guess a 5 min sim would have slightly higher pooling

also another funny thing, my gear puts me at like 29% haste baseline

and CT is actually a 31 dps increase lol

[mental laurel]

I saw some early sims showing sub rogues doing almost double sin rogues damage on average in Castle Nathria. Is this accurate? I personally prefer playing sin but would swap to sub if the gap is really big.

[fathom swift]

those probably weren't sims

[low girder]

my guess would be those are from a not-to-be-named website, which is extremely inaccurate

[fathom swift]

sin is behind on st but its not half of subs damage

[balmy condor]

sin is 10-15%

it-what-should-not-be-named

is a shit website

[mental laurel]

I'll take 10-15% if it means a spec I prefer

[fallow otter]

How do you guys play sin atm

Don't you fall asleep

[low girder]

i've only raided once since prepatch (and before that since august) and i only played sub for the like 6 bosses we did so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy condor]

I put a nice glass of apple juice next to me, cause I’m not cultured enough for bourbon, and I enjoy a relaxing gameplay experience like a true sin one trick

[fallow otter]

Hahaha

The other 2 are an SS spam fest though

So... Spam or not enough to do

Shit choice

Pre patch is whatever though

[fleet whale]

beats havoc's one button dps rotation

[fallow otter]

Who cares

Havoc isn't even on the table

That shit sucks

Hahaha

Now... Does it beat aff or destro

Nope

Outlaw still fun for m plus though

[fleet whale]

already have DK as my slow poke class

don't need to play another slow poke

[fallow otter]

Tried unholy for keys atm?

They have some big aoe

[balmy condor]

Unholy? Aoe?

Never heard of it

[low girder]

much like they've never heard of target caps

🙃

[balmy condor]

We don’t have target caps either

Just keep dotting

[fallow otter]

St actually good too

[low girder]

lol

[balmy condor]

[fleet whale]

Frost DK at least breath build

ain't too bad either

[fallow otter]

5head af lol

[balmy condor]

If you never stop moving, CT doesn’t have a target cap either

[low girder]

just keep wiggling til everything gets hit

[balmy condor]

The gameplay blizzard envisioned

Very good

[fleet whale]

honestly, with the whole death theme of this expansion

it's ok to me if DKs get to shine

Just like how spriests shined in bfa cause of the Old God shit

DKs lowkey as of now look like the best melee in SL

[fallow otter]

Can someone in a wheelchair ever be best?

[fleet whale]

well they won't be wheelchairs in sl though

going either night fae or venth will solve that

[balmy condor]

Kyrian Paladin only

[fleet whale]

and then you have wraith walk and death's advance

with all that you should be fine mobility wise

[lament dove]

I don't get why DK is considered slow, they have a little sprint plus a talent, I don't find them slow at all

[fleet whale]

tbf wraith walk is kind of shit

it's channeled, and breaks as soon as you attack

DA is pretty decent though

[low girder]

that's a lot slower than a 8s long sprint, step/grapple, and 15% movement speed base

nevermind DH or monk

it's a relative thing

[fleet whale]

but, with decent pre-planning, if you you're either fae or venth

wraith walk, DA, and grip is enough for most encounters

[lament dove]

well it shouldn't be a surprise that a full plate warrior is not as fast as a leather class, but I don't find DK sluggish at all, in fact the class is a nice surprise to me (never thought I play one, but pre-patch alt leveling fewer got to me as well)

[fleet whale]

i find DKs fun as hell

[glacial otter]

DK is pretty great to be fair

[low girder]

in most areas it's overstated, there's just some instances where it really comes into play

the slowness that is

n'zoth can be rough sometimes

not impossible, just more to deal with than say, a DH

[glacial otter]

You ever seen someone do Mythic Archimonde on a DK when they don't know the strat? It's the funniest shit.

[low girder]

"GRIP ME GRIP ME GRIP ME GRIP ME"

[misty hemlock]

how is assa compared to sub in shadowlands? or prepatch for that matter

[balmy condor]

in terms of what

raw dps

changes

raiding, dungeons

[misty hemlock]

pretty much raw dps, dungeons M+

[balmy condor]

10-15% below sub atm

[misty hemlock]

can't really decide, both look nice

i see, that's not too bad

guess i'll go with whatever feels better

[balmy condor]

I mean, competitively its unplayable with that disparity

but yeah XD

[misty hemlock]

eeeh, the way i know blizz that's all subject to change in the blink of an eye lol

[balmy condor]

correct

class balance isn't done yet on beta

[misty hemlock]

it's not like they're about to run outta time or smt anyway

[fallow otter]

Pre patch sub aoe blows

Sin is missing buttons

[balmy condor]

everyone's missing buttons

that's not a sin thing

[fallow otter]

Not untrue but we literally got them taken off us

Not the case for most

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

Take them away to give them back

[balmy condor]

its not like tb was huge dps anyway

[fallow otter]

Like.. Black powder is just a gain

Yeah well

They nerfed it aswell

Made it less important to press

We got neutered

Don't defend them

Lol

[balmy condor]

it was already not important to press

[fallow otter]

Regardless.... They nerfed it and it's less important now

[balmy condor]

I would consider numbing interactions with shiv a buff over tb

I can live with the 30dps nerf if we get the utility out of it

[fallow otter]

Im just salty that the spec got flattened

People going to want us to soothe and we gonna be saying sorry

Cd

But outlaw and sub

[balmy condor]

you'd want to hold for the soothe most of the time if you know its coming up

[fallow otter]

No worries

[balmy condor]

but ye

I guess

[fallow otter]

It's annoying dood

Like vanish

We just lose a spell

For dps

To compete

[umbral hearth]

i can't think of a single change that is good for assassination

i get that it needed some more complexity, but it's just made the spec feel clunky

excited to play sub though

[jaunty arrow]

Assa just need talents rework

[flat ocean]

What would you use vanish for otherwise?

[balmy condor]

Vanish skips in m+ are valuable

[flat ocean]

True

Does it disjoint?

Could you dodge a spell cast with it or something as well?

[balmy condor]

Not sure what you mean by the

That

[flat ocean]

If the enemy throws something at me

Say a frostbolt

and I vanish before it hits me

Does it still hit me?

Actually never really tested vanish mechs so pretty curious

[balmy condor]

Yes it does

[jaunty arrow]

U can do that

[flat ocean]

Okay

[balmy condor]

There’s a grace period after you vanish that doesn’t pull you out of stealth

So most likely you’ll still be stealthed

[flat ocean]

Yeah I know about that

[balmy condor]

But the damage will go through

[flat ocean]

But was wondering if it can dodge damage

Kinda how meta

Can dodge damage

And DFA used to be able to

[balmy condor]

Yeah those made you untargetable

Vanish doesn’t quite do that

[flat ocean]

Gave iframes

[dry atlas]

You can vanish before the frostbolt gets cast I guess

[flat ocean]

Yeah for sure

The reason I asked is because in DotA you can disjoint with stuff like vanish

[balmy condor]

Yeah if they’re casting and lose the target it’ll cancel the cast

But if it’s flying l

[flat ocean]

Projectiles fail to hit if you go untargetable

[balmy condor]

It’ll land

[dry atlas]

Yeah Dota is nice

If only shadowstep worked like blink dagger

[flat ocean]

xD

would be broken

[jaunty arrow]

I guess on tbc or like that u can do that with vanish but not sure its long time ago

[flat ocean]

Yeah I vaguely remember it being a thing a long time ago

[low girder]

Changed in wrath iirc

But yes doing things like vanishing death coils or pom pyros was a thing

Is not anymore

[lime mantle]

yo, wanna ask, what is best covenant for assasination in pvp and why. tag me if u know

[shrewd night]

Maybe try #pvp

[sweet pecan]

just got serrated blade of nadox, with the effect that it has a chance to bleed

anyone know if this is great or garbage

[dry atlas]

ilvl is low

and does it really only have agi and stam like wowhead shows?

[sweet pecan]

yep

i simmed it cause no one knew, it was a upgrade for me

seems alreight, no stats but the bleed is a good enough replacement

[dry atlas]

what did you replace with it

[sweet pecan]

95 ilvl weapon..

so a big ilvl upgrade for sure

[broken basalt]

hi guys what u think : Are Lethal Poisons & Well-Placed Steel can work well with Dashing Scoundrel & 1-3-1-0-0-2-1 sin TT ?

and venthyr as well:)

[chilly cosmos]

Any opinions on whats the best covenant for assassination rogues?

[chilly cosmos]

Found them, 10x

[somber bison]

So what covenant are you boyz starting with

[floral shoal]

Probably Venthyr. Seems easiest to use in m+, stacking it up shouldn't be that much of a problem with fan of knives.

[balmy condor]

@broken basalt It’ll be a couple % worse than the bis setup, so idk what your threshold is by “work well”. I wouldn’t recommend master poisoner at the start of the expansion, dashing is fine, venthyr is behind but not awful

[tacit mural]

So is septic shock gonna be worth it, because I haven't seen any of the pins talking about it

[balmy condor]

No

It’s just worse than wps and lp right now

To put it in perspective, wps is 2.3%, lp is 2.18%, and septic is 1.8%

So slightly worse

[tacit mural]

gotcha

[marble cedar]

How does assassin compare to sub in shadowlands?

[balmy condor]

10-15% behind

[marble cedar]

Oh that's not bad

[balmy condor]

It’s pretty bad

But we have some more tuning to go

[marble cedar]

I was expecting worse 😂

Is that confirmed or?

[balmy condor]

They haven’t balanced specs themselves yet

So I would hope so

[grizzled jay]

i wonder what their tuning will be. just an aura buff or more nuanced changes.

[marble cedar]

Aura buff?

[untold stream]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Each spec has a hidden passive that increases all damage it does

That’s the aura

So an aura buff would just be a 5% all damage buff

[marble cedar]

Really? Why do they do that?

[balmy condor]

To make it easier to tune

If you like the damage breakdown of the spec, but it’s overall too weak

Rather than going through the patchnotes going “mutilate is 5% stronger, envenom is 5% stronger, garrote is 5% stronger”

And changing each number individually

They just slap 5% onto the hidden aura and it works

Changing 1 number is also a lot less prone to bugs and mistakes than changing like 30

[marble cedar]

AHH yes that's a good way of putting it. Neat

[balmy condor]

See example 1: when they forgot a 0 on the venthyr tuning in beta

And it was doing 10x the damage it was supposed to

Cause 0.95 is in fact not 0.095 xD

[eternal mirage]

Does https://www.wowhead.com/item=183624/serrated-blade-of-nadox?bonus=0 bleed from this scale with mastery?

asking for a friend

[balmy condor]

No

[eternal mirage]

[fleet whale]

sadly our mastery doesn't work like how enhances mastery worked in Legion

[balmy condor]

^

It affects garrote, rupture, and really that’s about it

If you have a doubt on if it works or not, chances are it does not

[eternal mirage]

would be to good

[fleet whale]

i think it may scale with the doomblade bleed

not 100% sure though

[balmy condor]

I think it does

I’d have to double check though

[echo gust]

how far behind is sin compared to sub on ST?

i just hate sub lol

[balmy condor]

10-15%

[echo gust]

yea thats too big a gap

farts 😦

[fast wharf]

Are those 10-15% general or do they only apply to e.g single target situations?

[balmy condor]

in general

[fast wharf]

Roger that, thanks

[spare forum]

https://skribbl.io/?6Io4FRVeUM8Y

[quick path]

How is sin looking compared to other dps classes/specs?

[balmy condor]

meh

[north pewter]

It's really hard to feel good about it right now lol

[balmy condor]

but cross-class tuning ain't done

[north pewter]

but i refuse to let go

[quick path]

Aye - love the smoothness of sin would like it to still be competitive

[north pewter]

I'm sure things will change as SL actually releases and we can really get into mixmaxing and figuring out where we burst at

minmaxing*

[balmy condor]

Well the min-max is already there in sims

But changes are indeed constant

[latent gazelle]

sin tends to scale pretty well. so if they give it a few % increase in aura dmg. then prolyl with the second patch or so it might be competetive

[north pewter]

I haven't looked too much into where it's at in the beta, because things are just constantly changing. I figure we'll see the true state of affairs once we're actually doing it.

all the flavor of the month kids are playing outlaw and sub though

[latent gazelle]

nah they all went back to their classes when sub got nuked down from being 5k above everything else

then went to MM till they got hit, then mage till they got hit

[north pewter]

waiting for that spriest nerf

[latent gazelle]

idk if they will or not

[grizzled jay]

nah all the DH rerollers are still Sub

Rogue very rarely gets fotm rerollers unless we're like God tier above the rest. Hunter, Balance Druid, and a couple others have been better for a while. But all the Rogues who abandoned Rogue in Legion went DH and now they are back since DH sux

[fleet whale]

DH also has to share weapon tokens with locks

feelsbadman

[latent gazelle]

who does rogue share them with?

[prisma yoke]

i mean both have a purple/lilac name

[fleet whale]

rogue shares them with wars/monks

really not that bad imo

three melee classes

[strange python]

it kinda is, since there's probably not going to be many of them

at the current stage that is

[fleet whale]

thing is though

if your raid has 3 locks, and your the only dh

those locks are gonna be getting those tokens

[strange python]

still better than having weapons drop though, I rocked out 12 weeks of 8.3 before I managed to get a single dagger from ANY loot source, was pushing content with a 445

couldn't even get them from m+ end loot

[latent gazelle]

yeah same here. it was pretty anoying

[fleet whale]

it's better in theory, but i sense a lot of rage coming from this token system

note that bonus rolls are gone

[strange python]

yeah but once you have it you have it

that's a win

[somber bison]

that picture of yours freaks me out man

[strange python]

mine?

[somber bison]

ich

[strange python]

Handsome Squidward is best Squidward

[velvet ridge]

hey when are they gonna balance assassination with a lil dmg buff-a-roo

[strange python]

it does need a bit of a boost but I don't think we'll see one tbh, besides as gear gets a bit better the energy funds get better, which boosts sin a lot

sin typically scales very well as the the ability to spam goes up

[fallow otter]

The global locked sin I loved is dead

At the moment it looks like it's the bottom spec locked in

Sub st
Outlaw m+
Outlaw cleave
Sub m+ still viable

[balmy condor]

People and their “sin scales”

[strange python]

it does though, we saw the same in legion as well

although that was because of rush and dashing working together better than it does now

either way it would be better if they boosted it now and allowed it to just simply work as the split cleave spec

[fallow otter]

Whisp

You ride or die

Even leveling?

[balmy condor]

Scaling has nothing to do with the spec and everything to do with borrowed power

It gets faster with haste sure

But it doesnt magically scale harder than other specs just by nature of it being sin

And I’ll probably level in sub

For the stealth healing

[strange python]

it wasn't haste that scaled sin in antorus as much as the combo of the set and venom rush

[balmy condor]

So borrowed power

[grizzled jay]

there's no such thing as scaling in WoW anymore

there's too many layers

[strange python]

and the moment we had that spec locked into spam mode we were gucci, I never disputed the borrowed power part, although people have never really called sets part of the borrowed power game

[grizzled jay]

basically it just comes down to if your layers are good or not

[balmy condor]

Sets are like the OG borrowed power

[strange python]

the point with the "scaling" convo is literally just, "as spam sin becomes a reality, it's damage goes awol quickly"

and that is true

[fair rain]

[grizzled jay]

anyone who says pre-Legion didnt have a borrowed power design must've never played Arcane Mage in TBC or Sub Rogue in WoD

[balmy condor]

That’s not true though

[strange python]

I don't think people say that borrowed power doesn't exist in older styles of wow, just that the set bonuses weren't typically considered a part of that convo

[balmy condor]

Just because it’s spam sin doesn’t make it go crazy

That’s not how that works

[fallow otter]

Well... There is scaling.... But you don't have to go in depth from what provides it

[balmy condor]

Antorus was one of the slowest sin playstyles

[strange python]

antorus sin was not slow

[balmy condor]

It was end of expansion at like 42-45apm

????

[strange python]

that's just not true

antorus sin you could totally get nearly gcd locked

not like 8.3, but still

[balmy condor]

I mean with bloodlust and argus orbs maybe

But you look at logs from back then

And it’s like 45apm

[strange python]

in general rotation you still found yourself at a complete lack of pooling

[grizzled jay]

@fallow otter I disagree there is scaling. Look at Arms. It doesn't scale, it just had an Azerite Power that provided it with 10000 Strength. Had nothing to do with the inherent design of the spec that allowed "certain stats" to make it "excel" in certain areas. It just straight up had broken Azerite.

[strange python]

at least compared with the way sin starts an expac

[fallow otter]

But couldn't you say that it scaled well with the Azerite?

[grizzled jay]

Any spec in the entire game would scale well with Test of Might.

[fallow otter]

The same way sin scaled well having boat loads of haste

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

But some scale better than others is the point

[balmy condor]

All this scaling talk

Mega bait

[fallow otter]

I think it's just a word

[grizzled jay]

If I give your car an engine with 500 more horsepower than it had before, your car didn't 'scale'.

[fallow otter]

As long as we understand what it means who cares

[balmy condor]

It’s a word people use that they think means something

And it doesn’t

Mean anything

[grizzled jay]

Scaling in video games means the design of your character/champion/class/etc. has an inherent design that allows it to exploit something as it gets more of that something.

[strange python]

it's literally the correct term to use for the method of number inflation that occurs

[grizzled jay]

Arms doesn't have an inherent design that made ToM better on it vs. any other spec in the game.

It just happened to be the one who had ToM.

[strange python]

regardless of where that inflation comes from

[fallow otter]

It depends on the context

[balmy condor]

Yes but that’s not how people use it

[fallow otter]

Im talking about the damage output scaling

[balmy condor]

They keep saying “sin scales” “sin sucks early expac but it’ll be good at the end”

And that line of thinking

Is bait as fuck

And wrong

And that’s it

[fallow otter]

Yeah well I never said that statement lol

[strange python]

that's a very very poor reframing of a statement

[balmy condor]

It’s not a reframing

[strange python]

it literally is

[balmy condor]

It’s literally what people have said

In this very channel

[fleet whale]

yeah sin scales so well

that's why it was so good in HFC

yeah

[strange python]

that was a different build back then mind

[balmy condor]

I’ve had people tell me that sin won’t be good in nathria because it’s bad early expac, but you’ll see that 2-3 raids in, sin will pump don’t worry

[strange python]

apples and oranges there

[balmy condor]

They’ve said that

[fleet whale]

Sin doesn't have some crazy unlocked potential scaling

it was good in antorus cause of a tier bonus

it was good in NYA cause of corruption

[strange python]

if it is bad in CN it's still poor dev'ship regardless as to where it "potentially ends up"

[royal lantern]

scaling that suddenly makes a spec"good"is a myth

like

only spriest had that in legion

with "get 132515315 haste too be playable"

[fleet whale]

also

do people forget that sin was good in Uldir?

[strange python]

so then what you guys are saying is that you just don't like the framing of "sin sucks at the start but it's ok because it gets better towards the end of the xpac"
of course you do, it's false
that has nothing to do with the idea of factual scaling though

[balmy condor]

But it was good cause of azerite in uldir that’s fake news varo

[fallow otter]

@fallow otter I disagree there is scaling. Look at Arms. It doesn't scale, it just had an Azerite Power that provided it with 10000 Strength. Had nothing to do with the inherent design of the spec that allowed "certain stats" to make it "excel" in certain areas. It just straight up had broken Azerite.
@grizzled jay it's not like this Azerite didn't already exist though?

[balmy condor]

@strange python every spec scales then

[strange python]

you guys are getting triggered by a WORD rather than a statement

and yes they do

but at different rates

[balmy condor]

Sin doesn’t scale any more or less than any other spec

[strange python]

fire with corruptions is a good example

[balmy condor]

I’m gonna lose it

[fleet whale]

in fact if anything

it's the opposite for sin, at least historically

[strange python]

not with the current iteration of sin it's not, problem is it's not that old

[balmy condor]

Sin hasn’t seen any major changes since at least wod

[fleet whale]

our biggest change

is garrote outside stealth

[balmy condor]

And we have toxic blade poggggg

[strange python]

even the devs would facepalm at that

[balmy condor]

Big damage

[fleet whale]

what, sin has not been all that different for a long time

they've added some things here and there but overall it's had the same foundations for a long time now

[balmy condor]

Shadow priest saw more reworks in one beta than sin has in a decade

[fallow otter]

Ok can I simplify it a little see if we can get on the same page

[fair rain]

That was actually a good one whisp

[fleet whale]

assassination is like frost dks' in terms of staying the same, but even they have gotten new shit like Breath and frostscythe

and summoning a dragon

it is a shame, cause throughout the beta, sin as a whole has felt like an afterthought to blizz

[fallow otter]

Hypothetical; if a sin rogue gets 5dps from 1point of haste and an arms warrior gets 10dps from 1point of haste can we agree that arms scales better with haste than sin?

[balmy condor]

Sure

[fallow otter]

So if you spread that over all stats

Same figures just for simplicity

You can just say arms scales better than sin with more gear

Yeh?

[fleet whale]

also note that secondary stats alone doesn't determine how well a spec "scales"

[fallow otter]

Ofc

[fleet whale]

it's things like multipliers, how the spec interacts with multipliers, trinkets

borrowed power, etc

[strange python]

They get triggered by the way that people blanket statement generalities - it seems like people are saying "it's ok for sin to suck because good design will have it scale later" which is of course stupid

But they're boiling that kind of stupidity down to just the word

[fair rain]

[fallow otter]

Yeh but I'm not discussing how

Can we agree on that generalised statement on gear if we just flatten the stats whisp

In that simple example ofc

Ie. Could you at that point just say, arms scales better than sin?

[balmy condor]

Yes of course

Idc if you use the word in a way that makes sense

I care if you’re a dumbass about it

And you’re not a dumbass

So we chillin

[fallow otter]

Sweet as

I got the impression you were against it being used as a term at all

@grizzled jay

You agree it can be said like that?

Interested if you disagree

[strange python]

I think it's more people who consider it "good development", I definitely don't think it is

I don't want to seem like I'm excusing it as that

[balmy condor]

Yeah as long as you guys know what you’re taking about idc

Word is fine

[strange python]

Like my original statement did mention that it should get a boost, coz right now it's underperforming

anyone who says you can RELY on "scaling" is silly, it's not at all what I meant

[balmy condor]

Yeah

You’re good

[fallow otter]

As all the gear gets better and we do more damage they are going to find broken shit with all these systems in place

Same way outlaw got stupidly broken in aoe when we got a 2nd major Azerite ring

Hold on boys it's gonna be one hell of a ride

Lol

[strange python]

I'm kinda just hoping they let us at some point use 2 leggos

or more...

[fallow otter]

That will just make it worse haha

[grizzled jay]

@fallow otter I don't think Arms or Assassination have any inherent design that makes them "scale" better with more stats than any other spec.

[strange python]

9.3 entire leggo inventory!

[grizzled jay]

If you give Assassiantion 50 million Haste and give Outlaw 50 million Versatility, I do not think Assassination "scales" better than Outlaw in that regard.

[strange python]

y'know how different stats are worth more at given times? That's because the scaling of that stat is currently better than others, it's just a graphical jargon

[grizzled jay]

How strong a stat is generally is entirely based on the other systems around it.

[strange python]

well yeah

doesn't change the outcome

[grizzled jay]

But you understand that if outside systems are influencing how strong or weak a stat is, then the spec itself doesn't scale.

It's the system that is 'scaling'.

[strange python]

a rough or smooth road surface doesn't make me change my mind on wanting tread on my tires

too an extent designed by purpose

the spec is just one of those systems, that's kinda splitting hairs on terminology at that point

noone relaly gets that theological about it

[fallow otter]

So you believe that if you gave an arms warrior not wearing Azerite or essence 50haste and same for sin you would see the exact same dps increase? @grizzled jay

[strange python]

I think a better question is "SHOULD that be the case?"

I wana say yes, but the nihilist in me just says, that's easy to do, delete all dps specs but 1

lol

[grizzled jay]

@fallow otter That's not what scaling means. Scaling means that the more of a specific thing you get, you exponentially get better than something else. In your example Arms might get 500 dps and Sin 50 but if you give them both 500 haste, Arms only gets 700 dps but Sin gets 900. That is scaling.

[fallow otter]

That would be exponential scaling

[balmy condor]

Scaling doesn’t have to be exponential

[fallow otter]

^

[fleet whale]

you know this just popped in my head: if garrote can be used outside of stealth, shouldn't it get a name change? lol

like how do you wrap a wire around someone's neck while standing right in front of them already fighting

[strange python]

petition to change "out of stealth garrote" to "strangle a bitch"

[fleet whale]

or throat slash or something

[glacial otter]

I mean you call still wrap something around someone's neck while fighting them irl so why not in game

[strange python]

he's right in a way though, seems complex

but I mean, how exactly does taunt work?

[fleet whale]

you say mean shit to them

like "i did your mom"

[strange python]

like is a tank actually just slanging mad af momma jokes at wrathion?

[fallow otter]

You tell them a yo mumma joke

[strange python]

actually... that would probably work

[glacial otter]

"hey you're short lol"

[strange python]

less so on some rock elemental

[fleet whale]

"yo momma so fat, she couldn't even fit in the Well of Eternity"

[glacial otter]

ohshit

[strange python]

tank to Golemagg "yo mamma so fat she has her own orbit!"
Golemag: "thats... true?"

[fallow otter]

Yo mumma so fat I rolled over twice and I was still on top of her

[fleet whale]

"Yo momma so fat, that as soon as she stepped outside, the Cataclysm occurred"

[glacial otter]

Stunkei you absolute monster, my lord.

[fallow otter]

[jagged imp]

Any tips on how to get some decent daggers rn? Been thinking of switching from Outlaw, but my weapons are at 115 and 110 atm and don't want to lose that much damage

[fleet whale]

well if you haven't done so already

kill Nathanos with loot spec set to either sin/sub

oh nvm

[fallow otter]

Mythic first boss

Your best option

Gl

[fleet whale]

nathanos does give you a 115, but is it your outlaw weapons at 115/110

or are those your daggers?

[jagged imp]

I guess if I switch to assassination it will switch to daggers

[fleet whale]

yeah your loot spec will change, unless if you have it manually set to something else

if you swap specs, make sure your loot spec is what you want it to be

[fallow otter]

Right click your portrait, choose loot spec

[jagged imp]

bruh, I didn't even know that's a thing

thanks man

[jagged imp]

Nice, Nathanos dropped one immediately, just gotta get a second one

[fleet whale]

I think some of the Icecrown rares drop daggers too, and it would be 110 ilvl

should probably check wowhead to see which ones do though and when they'll spawn

[jagged imp]

Looked it up, Black Knight, Krik'thir and Nadox drop daggers

[sterile jackal]

wow, they fixed snd not breaking stealth

[fallow otter]

Was this a sin only problem

[vestal wren]

wasn't that fixed last week with the ~20 bugs they fixed?

[balmy condor]

It was subt + snd

And yes it was in the big list

[dusky lichen]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[marble ruin]

Slice and dice from stealth is still broken on live when you use EP and Subterfuge together, it is however fixed on beta.

[marsh delta]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

Why yall said not to go for master poisonioner again?

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s worse

You take it in pvp to make wound poison stronger, but in PvE it’s just not strong enough dps wise

[grizzled jay]

MP is probably good enough for leveling/WQs. But in extended combat it gets worse and worse.

(at least right now)

[dusk bone]

guys how do you think assa will feel in SL at max lvl for pvp or m+ I am new here and i am looking for opinions ^^

i hate both other specs

:/

[latent gazelle]

I imagine it’s gonna feel like it did in bfa? Numbers wise it’s below the other 2 but actual play style/rotation didn’t change I don’t thjnk.

[dusk bone]

it will be again pughell right? 😄

[latent gazelle]

Pughell? As in hard to pug as sin?

[dusk bone]

on tyranical no but on fortified sometimes it sucked

[latent gazelle]

Idk kind of felt the same on both to me. Sin wasn’t that far behind outlaw if at all, tho people just took outlaw because mdi made it popular. And after reaping in S2 it just kinda stayed the popular choice

[balmy condor]

How it is right now, least desirable in m+

You’ll probably have a similar experience to sub m+ in bfa

Have to wait and see if they fix any of the tuning issues

Might be okay if we get some number buffs