assassination

[errant delta]

ty

[vital haven]

i use afenars for whatevers thats worth

usually those are the most up to date from the group pins

[balmy condor]

ye afenar updates his shit pretty frequently

[fallow otter]

Yeah I've used it, it's good

[errant delta]

i used lothuxs but new 1 dosnt have number timers

[fallow otter]

I've made my own since

[balmy condor]

making your own WA's is BiS tbh

[vital haven]

^

im just too lazy

[fallow otter]

Noawh flavoured rogue wa

[burnt dome]

I'm currently using Adriox (though editted that one to fit perfectly) and used to use Geos's. It's all personal tbh, as long as they track all the relevant cooldowns/timers then its just whatever you think is aesthetically pleasing

[vital haven]

i liked luxthos though because the garrote and rupture number would turn green whenever it was an emp garrote or an exsang bleed

[balmy condor]

it was fun figuring out the code to make that work

[vital haven]

i tried to figure it out when i changed to afenar

eventually i was like wait i can just use the rupture and garrote weakaura from luxthos

EZ

[balmy condor]

the worst part tbh was getting it to remember what target had the empowered garrote

I got the empower to work on a dummy in dazar, and then went into a m+ and realized that if one of the garrotes was empowered, then all of them would show

[vital haven]

LOL

[strange python]

How many buttons does Assassin rogue have in its rotation? (Not including the 1minute+ CDs)

[low girder]

Uh, 6?

Including shiv for SL

7 if you take blindside

[balmy condor]

mut, gar, rup, env, snd, shiv, ambush

yeah, 6-7 checks out

[strange python]

How many 1minute+ CDs does it have?

[balmy condor]

2

vendetta and vanish

3 if you count certain covenants

[ember rover]

That's what I wanted to say

Covenant will add 1 more button

[late plinth]

I haven't played the beta when do we lose azerrite traits? man i gonna miss Shrouded suffication

[balmy condor]

they're instantly disabled in shadowlands zones

[burnt dome]

Ambush

[balmy condor]

the neck shows this warning

[late plinth]

fk me, i just got 3 x EB and SS at ilvl 135 😦 is assa even a viable spec to level in without those traits?

[balmy condor]

depends on your definition of "viable"

you can definitely do it

but sub/law are mostly likely objectively better

[late plinth]

basicly i wonder if it gonna be alot slower then sub/combat or close in pace

[balmy condor]

sin will be slower

idk how much

but its always been the slow leveler

and most people opt to not level as sin

[amber quail]

No matter to level assa whiteout treits😉

I did it twice and one as sub

Sin is pretty good in leveling

[sterile jackal]

i found out for lvling it is better to use subterfuge and cat 3x ambush than garroting mobs, it speeds mob killing (beta experience)

cast*

[amber quail]

In st when I was testing did:A-G-A = usually target dead

[sterile jackal]

if target is dead after your roation then garrote is useless, as it makes like one or two ticks

[amber quail]

Yes

I dint it during leveling

[sterile jackal]

in beta 3 ambushes take mob hp to about half

[amber quail]

I have to write 😆

With G the “about” part become : tik garrote, dead

Btw u can envenom

Dead

[sterile jackal]

yea

[amber quail]

Not so slow in leveling

[sterile jackal]

or rupture for energy regen, so you can kill next mob faster

[amber quail]

I did try lot of things in my first

[sterile jackal]

It isnt, just have to change our way we do the opener

[amber quail]

Yep

And leveling help in this part

You can approach as best

I don’t find sim slower then sub with a good manage of multiple mob, casters, chain pulling, etc.
And is funny 😁

[sterile jackal]

sub is better if you can kill all mobs during window of SD

without dance sub is bad in aoe lvling

[amber quail]

yep

[sterile jackal]

or even st killing

[amber quail]

Honestly I leveled my second sin with leech poison

And feeling was good

[sterile jackal]

i always take leeching for outdoor lvling and activities, helps a lot with elites

on SL i'll have to learn to cc mobs more often :p

[amber quail]

That is the funny part I said 🤗

[eternal seal]

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/news=318695/shadowlands-beta-build-36294-class-and-spell-changes-soulbind-and-conduit-tuning

[balmy condor]

yep, that's the patch notes from earlier today, for beta

[eternal seal]

it seems they have nerfed the Kyrians

[balmy condor]

the biggest nerfs are to conduits

[eternal seal]

y

[uncut schooner]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[uncut schooner]

How goes Assa.

[balmy condor]

not great

[uncut schooner]

I'm getting my fingers dug in again with pre-patch being here. Had a month break due to things slowing down in the guild (we finished at Cara in Mythic).

All about Sub now I heard, where's muh luv for assa.

[tribal obsidian]

Im ok with sub being in the light

Change keeps things interesting

[thin gate]

i bet, that assa, unholy and firemage dominate endgame of this expansion

it always feels like these

and 1 warrior spec

dominate the lategame

i hope we finally get a dagger again with a proc... like a bleeding or poison since we didnt had that sht in BFA

[pliant apex]

I hope they let assa transmog all single handers not just daggers

Not gun happen is it

[main warren]

no it is not

[pliant apex]

Sucks can’t use fish mace mog

But outlaw can, but outlaw can’t work for single player

[main warren]

single player?

[umbral rapids]

single player 🤔

[pliant apex]

Hehe single target lol

Freudian slip perhaps , I need to play single player more over toxic wow

[strange python]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[edgy ginkgo]

hey, which Pot sims best right now?

[thin stump]

SIM it

[strange python]

Hello there

im pretty new but i need help to undestand somthing, what is the real utility & effectivness of slice & dice in the rotation ? 🙂

[drowsy warren]

More dmg

😃

[vestal wren]

slice and dice gives you energy regeneration what speeds up your rotation

its a maintenance spell

[prisma beacon]

is slice n dice worth as assa in m+?

[grizzled jay]

depends how long the pack lives

but you can generally use SnD after a pack dies and carry it on to the next

[prisma beacon]

so its more worth pressing ct or envenom over slice n dice

[grizzled jay]

its highly dependent on too many circumstances to say, but once we get the energy regen from snd in SL, you should maintain it

[prisma beacon]

ok thx

[surreal solar]

@vestal wren soulbind pathing unchanged? or sifting through other more important things first?

[grizzled jay]

they buffed Niya's kick poison again, so you'll pretty much always take that in M+

[vestal wren]

i haven't updated it yet, the pic obv. showing old paths

[grizzled jay]

@vestal wren Is it possible for you to sim Soulbinds at specific Renown levels? More specifically, since Bron for Mikanikos is now at the top, I want to know how well it sims for potentially using.

[vestal wren]

you can do that yes

[grizzled jay]

i wouldn't know how to do that 😢

[vestal wren]

what soulbind is that?

[grizzled jay]

Mikanikos? He's the 3rd from Kyrian

[vestal wren]

kyrian okay, giveme a sec

there you go:

[grizzled jay]

so he's basically as good as the others, interesting

[vestal wren]

look at the rows

[grizzled jay]

Bron also heals, so may be worth taking in prog

[vestal wren]

point courage needs a conduit replacement

while palegos does not

a conduit replacement means you need to subtract 2-3% from the value

because you lose a potency

[grizzled jay]

Pointed Courage got like giga buffed though. gives 8% crit now lol

[vestal wren]

thats why its simming high

[grizzled jay]

ya

[vestal wren]

the point is its relative value is lower because you lose a potency

[grizzled jay]

i was just looking at mythic week though, where we won't have the 34 renown required for pointed courage

looks like Mikanikos will be a good choice, since Bron can heal as well

[vestal wren]

combat meditation is 0.5% dps

and its campain unlock

so its objectively seen better (but 0.5 is not a lot)

is reown counting for all soulbinds or individual?

if its for individual ones, its atm hard to drop palegos given the overall better value

[pliant apex]

latest wa for assa please?

[balmy condor]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

Pretty sure afenar’s is updated

I can give you a link to mine as well if you don’t like those

[sweet pecan]

give a man a WA and he plays for a day. use WA to make a man, and it can play 24/7

[vestal wren]

With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):

[balmy condor]

Hey necro’s back

[fleet whale]

honestly not that terrible tbh

[vestal wren]

necro seems like a good 2nd choice for sin/outlaw

kyrian is (as mentioned earlier) due to palegos still dominant

[fleet whale]

ST night fae and Venthyr are like the same lol

still i'm glad that gaps don't seem to be that ridiculous

[grizzled jay]

i should test if SBS affects Doomblade

[shadow tulip]

@vestal wren Renown is like rep with your covenant, so it's all across the 3 soulbinds.

[vestal wren]

that makes it a lot easier to switch between those 3

nice

[shadow tulip]

IDK until what point, but "emissaries" give 1 renown

Given, I haven't given that much thought to that, but spent some time in Thorgast

[grizzled jay]

pretty good base for Doomblade with 3 bleeds (itself, rup, garr)

[old thistle]

Isn't the double dmg conduit for bonespike a viable choice now

[grizzled jay]

okay sbs doesn't affect doomblade

yes it's very good

[old thistle]

I mean since it's bleed dmg

[grizzled jay]

huh

[balmy condor]

it doesn't have interaction with venomous wounds

[fleet whale]

does it scale with mastery

[balmy condor]

no

[fleet whale]

the good thing about kyrian assassination

is that it's pretty easy to hit the cps you need, at least compared to the other two specs

wow i just looked at the recent outlaw sims, and i'm sad

Sin is like 400 dps behind in ST

[grizzled jay]

Sin just needs a numerical buff

Also because it lost the +20% AS in SnD lol, was like a 1% dps loss or something

[fleet whale]

yeah i said earlier on that the SnD change would result in a dps loss, even if it's a gameplay improvement lol

[grizzled jay]

but that AS loss was also with old Lethal Poisons

so maybe it is a dps gain now

[old thistle]

i think bone spire needs a bit of buff here

[surreal solar]

ultimately sin just needs an aura buff or something

[grizzled jay]

SBS is fine where it is. Not great in ST, excels in AoE.

Actually considering going Necro in SL, at least for Nathria tier.

Cause it's going to pump on Sire, and be strong in high keys.

[surreal solar]

It does have the better all around QoL covenant boosts... my only reasoning for Night Fae is the garden = free stuff, and Niya = Free Meat/Skins

[grizzled jay]

Emeni = 3rd hearthstone

[fleet whale]

i mean night fae ain't that bad

honestly none of them really look that bad for rogue

[grizzled jay]

Heirmir gives you gems as well

Only one that is 'questionable' is Venthyr. 2nd best in ST but absolute dog in AoE.

[fleet whale]

and it's a really close 2nd best in ST

that and fae are basically neck and neck

So far for sin, it appears that kyrian is there if you want the best all around covenant

night fae also being decent all around, and if you don't like dealing with ER

Necro if you like the cleave/ you do a lot of M+

Venthyr as of now doesn't quite have the niche yet, but that could change

[grizzled jay]

Nice part about Necro is you can stop getting crit after 34% 🙂

[low girder]

oh no

[fleet whale]

lol is the 34% crit meme actually true for necro

[grizzled jay]

well at r15 it gives +70% crit chance on the dot

so anything above 30% crit is a dps loss

[fleet whale]

well, it's not quite crit chance, if the multistrike has a chance to crit

then you may want more crit

[balmy condor]

you can't crit with them

[grizzled jay]

SBS cant crit

[fleet whale]

lame

would love to see the double dipping

[grizzled jay]

idk why they phrased it as "chance to deal damage again" and have it work that way instead of just "has +X% increased crit chance" lol

but i guess its cause it cant crit

[fleet whale]

cause the multistrike is cooler thematically

[grizzled jay]

i suppose that's true

[surreal solar]

yeah.... heirmir gives ores/gems but i have no use for those sadly, and hearths i dont really need? but could use?

am already vulpera so i have 4atm

[grizzled jay]

well gems you'll always need

since you'll have to re-gem every tier

[surreal solar]

i can't cut my own gems tho, don't have a JC

[grizzled jay]

well you have all pre-patch to fix that

[surreal solar]

why? my guild already has that job covered

[marble hemlock]

Venthyr gives free transmog

[grizzled jay]

@surreal solar So you can flip them into gold

[low girder]

rip void elf passive

[grizzled jay]

Since we have gem slots at the beginning, gems will sell like hot cakes

My Rogue is alchemy personally, been that way since I created it in 2005. I thought about swapping many times but then i'd lose all that history.

[ember rover]

First tier of an expac is all about inscription and crafting 300x trinkets to sell

It's usually BiS for all DPS and healer classes

ANd suck gigantic deeks for tanks

[grizzled jay]

also Flasks are always their most expensive in the first tier

Cause there's already an Anchor Weed-like herb in SL lol

[fleet whale]

you all should try smoking Anchor Weed

[grizzled jay]

that's illegal bud

i'm reporting you to Orgrimmar PD

[surreal solar]

pretty sure thunder bluff and silvermoon legalized it

[grizzled jay]

TB only legalized medicinal pipe weed, so you better have a prescription.

[weary lintel]

no way !!

[vale quest]

Sin good in SL beta M+?

[balmy condor]

no

[vale quest]

fuck.

[strange python]

what an apt name for that coversation

[versed mica]

Venthyr still the worst cov for sin? Damn

[fallow otter]

Bugged

[balmy condor]

(also sims the worst though)

[fallow otter]

Tbh testing the gameplay is all I care about atm

Until final numbers

[lucid ruin]

Sin feels good, probably a lot better with rank 2 SnD and SND recuperate

Sub feels janky but that might just be me

[fallow otter]

Why janky?

Just less pref playstyle?

I think it feels good with black powder

[lucid ruin]

I haven't played it with black powder

It just doesn't feel as smooth as sin for some reason, still haven't been able to put my finger on it

Black powder looks cool AF though so ill probably play it just for that, sin is kind of lacking in the flair department

[fallow otter]

You playing sub in m+ for pre patch?

If so, yes don't bother it sucks

[lucid ruin]

Not doing any M+ atm, just kind of dicking around in normal raids and grinding Xmog waiting for event

[fallow otter]

Raid its good

But without black powder aoe ain't great

[lucid ruin]

I should maybe try outlaw

havent played it all expac lol

[fallow otter]

Outlaw is in a good place at the moment

Quite fast

[radiant vine]

is shiv in the rotation?

[balmy condor]

not in prepatch

[radiant vine]

ok ty!

[balmy condor]

but it will be in shadowlands

[strange python]

well steel bonus nature dmg seems way better than flat dmg

i like

[viral locust]

Kyarian is BIS now? iiiickkky

[balmy condor]

yeah, has been for a couple weeks now

pelagos is keeping it up

[viral locust]

I didn't check since the Spike nerf.

[balmy condor]

pretty close though

all things considered

[drifting cosmos]

Which one is for m+

Or are they all pretty close anyway

[drifting cosmos]

Yea ok

Guess I will just pick based on theme and live with it

Hard to tell since they might adjust halfway

[balmy condor]

we still have tuning to go

[vestal wren]

pelagos needs a nerf!

let us get our pitchforks and touches and riot against the great ruler palegos

[balmy condor]

true

[vestal dune]

How good would the exsan build be if there is a priest giving power infusion on cd?

[balmy condor]

not good enough

[vestal dune]

damn 😦

[balmy condor]

exsang is the weakest talent in the row

venom rush post buff is actually around equal with it

[vestal dune]

Ye, without the azerites I suppose assa has too much consistent dmg to be a good user of power infussion

Burstier specs will be better

[balmy condor]

our vendetta windows are still pretty strong

[iron heath]

Hi, Is the covenant available in Pre patch ?

[verbal mantle]

No sir, at level 60, Shadowlands

[iron heath]

Ahh ok ty

[vestal wren]

Soulbinds:

[frail birch]

Soulbinds last week: 🙂
Soulbinds now: 🙃

[vestal wren]

partly ye

[grizzled jay]

I still think Mikanikos might be good early on in the expansion, since you get Bron.

fuu, have you implemented Theotar's potion passive yet? idk seems like that and the buffed mastery passive would be better than Thrill Seeker + 2% more damage

[vestal wren]

nope

hard to say how big they are but possible that they get 2%+

2% would still not mean its good

it would need to be 3%+

[grizzled jay]

is it any percent from 100 to 200? or is it only like 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, or something like that

[vestal wren]

i have no beta

[grizzled jay]

fair lol

[vestal wren]

so i can't check

[grizzled jay]

i guess i could check, just for clarity

[vestal wren]

call to action is not a super big gain

pelagos has a better initial trait atm

[grizzled jay]

for dps yeah, im more thinking cause Bron also heals

i know your sims are for dps only.

just thinking for prog specifically, Bron healing might be impactful

probably not for Sin though cause of its lower apm

[vestal wren]

90 is quite high

with 50 apm this means still only once every 2 mins

so if you wan't to trigger it at a specific part of the fight it would be very hard to do so

[fleet whale]

@grizzled jay i mean if you have good Blindside rng, it might not take too long if you're lucky lol

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw just has an easier time due to AR and Celerity giving them 0.8GCD

[fleet whale]

is it odd that i actually find the finesse and endurance conduits to be more exciting than the damage ones?

[rotund torrent]

@marble hemlock Hi, what do u think about CLF for raid encounters? For St or some cleaves..

In prepatch btw

[vestal wren]

clf is a solid choice if you don't want to run wv

[rotund torrent]

wv is only a good choice If your group are using with you right?

[marble hemlock]

and if you dont have to move a lot

i think most people run either crucible or clf for convenience

i personally run breath cause its more fun

[vestal wren]

it should be even without your raid using it a good(probably best) pick, but i know a lot of people don't like using it what is fair

[marble hemlock]

yeah i simply never recommend WV because its awkward to use, doesnt line up all that well with major CDs, and requires you to stand still for prolonged periods of time which is kinda... not a thing with most bosses

or rather, we dont have big CDs that line up well with WV

a lot of people still run blood of the enemy

that might be for convenience cause theyre used to it, or because it still sims highest for them

[vestal wren]

its fair, its your opinion that the value loss is very high if you have any movement even if its not nessecery true

but its rly not a big issue given we have a lot of powerful essences

[grizzled jay]

i used wv for a bit on n'zoth cause it lined up with every basher and every ego, but dropped for clf for more ego burst dam

[fleet whale]

Sin has a good amount of options for a major essence, WV, BoTE, CLF, Crucible, and Breath majors all sim close for me

[grizzled jay]

Crucible major is underrated in pre-patch

[fleet whale]

especially since it helps you fill empty globals

[high ingot]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[vestal wren]

i think the majority is very used to blood, so they will stick to that

[high ingot]

hmm, those wa's don't actually show the pandemic window, right? I used to have one that had some custom code in it to calculate that stuff, can anyone recommend a good one for that? The ones I've looked at from the pins just glow when duration is under a certain fixed amount.

[quasi ledge]

You can easily add a condition in your own WA's that makes the text change colour or glow when the duration of the DoT is in the pandemic window, no custom code needed

[radiant vine]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[main solar]

I think i would have preferred if they fixed our energy regen by returning venomous wounds back to legion level instead of trying to force SnD on us. Maybe even return the damage component on to it too. Incentivize some more multi target "cleave".

[quasi ledge]

It's lazy "unpruning" and i'd go as far as saying possibly trying to cater to old or classic players by bringing the playstyle back closer to then. Everyone complaining that it's a horrible and boring maintenance spell so they've just gone "Here you go, 10% energy regen- it feels good to press it now"

[balmy condor]

@marble hemlock tbf, a lot of people sim highest and run bote still. I actually see very very little crucible major

[main solar]

To me it just kind of shows they don't even remember why they got rid of it in the first place. They slowly made it more and more passive with cut to the chase and then the WoD perk. Then got rid of it entirely when we got garrote to maintain as well. The ramp up for assassination was always pretty bad and they just brought the problem back.

[balmy condor]

Also really never see breath

[fleet whale]

yeah vast majority of logs run BoTE major

you'll see CLF here and there, and very few crucible/breath majors

[marble hemlock]

@marble hemlock tbf, a lot of people sim highest and run bote still. I actually see very very little crucible major
@balmy condor i think most people still enjoy the more bursty setup that bote+vendetta provides

breath is nice on fights where you can use it well

it carries hard on nzoth synapses for example

making the fight much easier

cause most of the top-dog classes for synapses got hit pretty damn hard

WLs dont play destro anymore, DH dealing much less burst, hunters not nearly as broken anymore either, no tank TDs to oneshot them etc.

people stick to blood cuase theyre used to it. doesnt necessarily mean cause its far beyond any other essence in terms of power level

[vestal wren]

people did pick blood because of preference before, i don't see why this should change in pre patch

[fleet whale]

i mean it currently is my highest simming major

BoTe that is

[balmy condor]

I mean the preference is there, sure, and niches exist for breath to stand out

But when we talk single target, breath major for example is just worse, crucible major is just worse

If you can abuse breath resets, it’ll be pretty good, I agree

[fleet whale]

granted the difference is very small anyway, like just in the 10s of dps

[marble hemlock]

exactly

its not a major choice you make

its a comfortablity choice

exactly what essences should be, imo

some encounters will work well with blood due to having a much stronger 2min CD

others will benefit more from the added burst of running crucible or breath

static encounters will maybe see clf or wv be better

but "better" in that context will mean less than 5% of a difference, even with optimal circumstances for each of these essences

[balmy condor]

true

[marble hemlock]

run breath on dresta for add-dmg or bote for more boss-dmg, you still have decent add-dmg with bote, you still ahve decent boss-dmg with breath

etc.

that level of flexibility i hope to see in legendary choices for SL as well

run execute bracers or more vendettas if they line up well with the boss-encounter phases, run more sustained with doomblade or a bit more sustain with bloodfang etc.

[vestal wren]

people don't take a lot of advantage of flexibility or optimize a lot

the meta was defined by players to be bote a long time ago, and this is what everyone plays with minor exceptions

[marble hemlock]

well, most progress encounters were largely dependant on assigning 2mins at specific times

and bote was the best choice for that kind of gameplay

whether it was assigning vendetta to hearts on ilgy, or soloing a growth on cara, or pumping psychus/bashers with no other CDs assigned since bote+vendetta would carry it

people just look at combustion and with most comps running 3+ mages obviously that was the big one

but they fail to see how big infernal for destro and vendetta for rogues was to achieve a very similar strategy

[vestal wren]

bote was taken because it is a easy choice, not because it was the best choice

we disagree on this, but i don't think people rly optimize for essences on assassination what lets a lot of opportunity unused.

[marble hemlock]

well, i can only speak for my progress experience

and from shadhar onwards, with dresta, raden, ilgy, cara and nzoth

we had assigned CDs and assa was one of the biggest ones there

[vestal wren]

stating that its great to have options if everyone just picks one choice is also a fun discussion.

[marble hemlock]

to ensure targets would die in time

thats why blood prevailed over all other essences for progress raiders

it simply was best for the assigned purpose assa played in the raids strategy

i ran breath for a while on raden progress for example, but it just couldnt compete since you didnt get resets from essences dying

bote subter and 1 ss piece was just too good to pass up

with most burst phases being 1 or 2min apart

[vestal wren]

sure

[marble hemlock]

both TEP and nya were big 2min-cd raidtiers where 2min cd classes just prevailed over everything else

and sadly none of the other essences supplemented that as well as bote did, with the exception of WV. but WV also wasnt buffed enough yet during TEP, and most encounters in nya were just a bit too movement heavy to get good use out of it

or required melee to pre-spread permanently

[fleet whale]

i feel like a 2 min cd in general is a nice luxury to have

[thin stump]

Whats the play for m+ rn if i wanna play assa 3SS/EB or SS/HoD?

[balmy condor]

eb

[thin stump]

ty

temple its more SS/HOD is guess?

[marble hemlock]

can be

eb is still surprisingly good there, even if you discount having a big pull for the rp-portion

[balmy condor]

I like eb in temple

hod is perfectly fine though

[lean marten]

Azerite be gone!

[fleet whale]

i bet you there are gonna be people who miss azerite in SL

[royal lantern]

bruh

its not even a bet

it will take like 1-2months max

and the first "i MiSs bFa AlLrEaDy"stuff will show up cus they dont like covenants or something

[fading crane]

hah

those are the same people that praise corruptions

[vestal wren]

the 2 things people might miss from bfa is lucid and bote

but you get a essence replacement (covenant spell) and bote replacement (ma)

i think bfa has a lot of interesting systems. The low-ish tuning just means that some of the feedback is considered.

a big reason why we see so many complains about borrowed power is because the current borrowed power system have a huge impact

[amber quail]

My unic miss from BfA is SS 😭

[royal lantern]

eh fuu it will be more like

"REMEMBER WHEN ASSASSINATION HAD GOOD AOE IN BFA???? BACK THEN IT WAS FUN!!!!!"

cus of EB or something like that

[surreal solar]

Oh sweet! Niya back on top, get outta here Korayn

[vestal wren]

oh, i forgot about EB

you are right

[royal lantern]

but yeha

i allready see the reddit post"the GCD ruins the game!!!!!" post cus lucid dreams is gone

and reddit/forums dont know what gcd means

for them gcd=slow gameplay

[vestal wren]

i think the loss of corruption already made a lot of players leave the spec

the gcd capped gameplay is something a lot of players rly liked

[royal lantern]

i mean in general

not for sin lel

like

lucid dreams broke so much shit

healers cant really run out of mana anymore cus of it etc....

[vestal wren]

idk, ignoring your energy bar is def. something

at least that builds a certain perception

[balmy condor]

It’s something different

For sin, which is a spec that never changes

[royal lantern]

i mean

all healers

turned from"i need too manage my mana"

too"mana is not a resource anymore, im just cooldown capped"

just because of lucid dreams

[vestal wren]

will be interesting to see how that plays out in sl

[balmy condor]

“Wdym I need a mana trinket, that doesn’t help my healing”

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor mate, you laugh but like

that IS how it will end

[balmy condor]

oh I know

[royal lantern]

since 8.2 healers are ONLY about cooldown managment

and cooldown managment means

can i use them on cd too get big hps numbers

“Wdym I need a mana trinket, that doesn’t help my healing”
@balmy condor the mana trinket is called inneravte

[fleet whale]

Well i already brought up my solution for sin aoe

they get a new baseline ability, "Poison Powder"

finisher that does small initial damage, but is a dot

and the dot deals more damage with each DP application

[old thistle]

Or they could make poison bomb a finisher

So you can control it

[balmy condor]

there's a lot of ideas for poison bomb

[fleet whale]

i mean my thing could work with PB too

but idk i just think an AoE ramp up finisher would be cool for sin, but i think they need more baseline aoe

[drifting cosmos]

Or they could just do something to make ct better?

[balmy condor]

CT is already ridiculous

[royal lantern]

CT is strong

like

sin doesnt need more aoe tbh

[balmy condor]

it needs instant aoe imo

or it needs to lean deeper into the multi-dotting

but if multi-dot is the route, rupture needs a buff

I think if you buff rupture + subt/garrote, it's perfectly fine

SS alone made sin good enough tbh

scent of blood in the earlier patches brought a fair chunk as well

rotationally, its fine, just needs numerical help

[marble hemlock]

ct should be baseline

not a talent

needing to talent an aoe cp spender sucks ass

[balmy condor]

yep

hard agree

[marble hemlock]

imagine ret pally having to talent divine storm

rogue is one of the few classes

that doesnt have aoe spenders baseline

and its weird as fuck

i guess outlaw avoids that due to BF

but still

i never understood that decision

to remove CT entirely from the baseline kit, and then bring it back as a talent a year after

same with sectec as sub

but they got BP now

and since rental powers never work with talents

that creates a big design flaw in my book

[kind yoke]

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[royal lantern]

@marble hemlock eh,its more like, rogue is 1 of the few classes/the only class that litearlly decides bettwen"i only do st" and "i only do aoe" with the specs

like

ye

its weird

even afflock got a huge aoe nuke in SL

[marble hemlock]

thats a design decision that you underline by saying "this is supposed to be part of the core toolkit"

we had baseline aoe spenders

for 2 expansions

they took it away with legion

brought it back as a talent in bfa

theres no reason they couldnt just give it back to rogue specs

ct/sectec i mean

as a baseline spender

ret was a pure-st class reaching all the way into cata

until they got divine storm

[royal lantern]

turned from pure st too aoe nuke machine

[marble hemlock]

yeah

so its not like those priorities dont shift and change

theres ample reason to make assa a melee sustained aoe class

[royal lantern]

hey i didnt say i agree with blizz there

[marble hemlock]

cause the core concept already supports it

i.e. CT could be a pure bleed dmg spender

and with talent

it also deals instant dmg

[royal lantern]

i personaly think its stupid that rogue is like the only class where you litearlly tend too sacrifice an entire way too do dmg with spec choices

[marble hemlock]

and you could then give conduits or azerite traits boosting the dot

since its no longer a talent-only ability

but ultimately, it doesnt even need an aoe spender to do good aoe

if our other DoTs would actually deal damage when multidotting

by designing rental powers that buff non-stealth garrote/rupture dmg

[royal lantern]

ye,thats the 1 thing i think is weird

for a spec that is suppsoed too be a dot spec

our dots do pretty low dmg by default

[marble hemlock]

bleeds are just enablers now

for energy sustain

which is sad

when you could do a lot of cool shit with it

to allow the spec to scale into aoe better

scent of blood was a nice touch for example

it was just outclassed in every way imaginable

by EB

[balmy condor]

I think scent was one of the cooler azerite tbh

[marble hemlock]

but i played 1ss 2scent in season 1

with quite a lot of success

[balmy condor]

balancing rupture stacks

was sick

also just feeling like rupture was doing something

felt good

[marble hemlock]

i felt 1ss 2scent to be better for dungeons than 3ss, in particular on forti keys with high trashcount

[vale quest]

so Sin sux in m+ SL?

[balmy condor]

its worse than sub and outlaw currently, yes

[vale quest]

damn

[drowsy warren]

How it’s worst when sub has no aoe

[balmy condor]

sub has black powder

its actually quite strong

[drowsy warren]

You right

Thought we taking prevpatch

[surreal solar]

prepatch is meaningless

[drowsy warren]

Talking this early is also meaningless

They change classes each week

[drifting cosmos]

Isn't sub like also top St chart atm?

[balmy condor]

charts don't exist

but sub is the higest single target rogue spec atm, yes

link me a wowmeta chart I fucking dare you

[empty glade]

xd

xd

[drifting cosmos]

I thought there is like a sim chart already

[fleet whale]

Right now sub is the highest tuned rogue spec, but that doesn't really matter

as of now, SL is world of rangedcraft

[balmy condor]

ye

[drifting cosmos]

I must be looking at a prepatch chart somewhere

[balmy condor]

you can look at wcl charts for prepatch technically

but that's jank as fuck

and you shouldn't

[drifting cosmos]

Lol ranged

[fleet whale]

if wow meta wants to be accurate, for SL this is all they have to do

[balmy condor]

sim charts are outdated the moment you look at them these days

[fleet whale]

ranged specs S tier, melee B/C tier

[balmy condor]

its like driving a car off the lot

[drifting cosmos]

Is that cos our target limiting system

They wanted to buff ranged in m+ but now maybe backfired

[balmy condor]

well if that was their goal

then they definitely succeeded

considering ranged dps is bis everywhere now

[vale quest]

nerf ranged

[drifting cosmos]

Lol...

[fleet whale]

the devs play ranged probably

[balmy condor]

all memes aside

it'll be fine probably

[fleet whale]

when they've tried to play melee

they get cleaved by the boss

[vale quest]

isn't melee always top dog in m+ for last 2 expansions

[fleet whale]

it wasn't really top dog in Legion

but melee were better in BFA

[balmy condor]

also has usually been at least 1 dps slot for ranged

[drifting cosmos]

Range is never bad

[shy heron]

legion poison bomb

[balmy condor]

in legion you had locks and hunters doing pretty good

[drifting cosmos]

Just in MDI it might be misleading seeing all melee

[vale quest]

now it will be 1 rogue and 2 ranged

[fleet whale]

i think balance was really good too

[drifting cosmos]

But yea everyone wants a rogue for skip most of the times

So we will always be there

[fleet whale]

until every trash pack

has a stealth detect mob

[drifting cosmos]

Then it would be awkward 💩

[drifting cosmos]

Sub CH is a really good place if you want to argue something

[fleet whale]

because sub is bringing in a lot of new players

[drifting cosmos]

Stay in the CH for 10 sec guarenteed there is something you want to argue

[fleet whale]

many of them being new to rogue as a whole

[drifting cosmos]

Yea it used to be a peaceful ch

[balmy condor]

is what it is

its the new hype

[fleet whale]

it's like the perfect storm to bring in new players

[drifting cosmos]

Now it just feels dumb

[fleet whale]

because it isn't ranged, but strong for melee

so it's the meta contrarian option if you know what i mean

[drifting cosmos]

Feels a lot more like dh ch now

[fleet whale]

cause a lot of them were dh's

[drifting cosmos]

Oh yea that would make a lot sense

[tropic ocean]

has a stealth detect mob
@fleet whale unless they change how it works u can still bypass some

[bronze rapids]

so I know sub is like #1 as prepatch stands but is ass still any good

[balmy condor]

sin is fine in prepatch

shadowlands currently a little less so

well

[night cypress]

No tb feels weird

[bronze rapids]

oof

[balmy condor]

the difference is actually also ~10% in shadowlands

so actually just m+ is rip

[bronze rapids]

I am planning on doing rogue/boomy with my gf in SL, so I am leveling a rogue and just tryin to figure out what spec I'd like to do it as

[balmy condor]

leveling is whatever

[bronze rapids]

oh well yeah lol I just meant later on

[balmy condor]

m+ looks a little sketchy for sin atm

but will probably be okay in raid once everything shakes out

[placid dawn]

is sin burst on opener higher than sub burst?

[balmy condor]

not really

[placid dawn]

i must suck at sub, the sin rogue on my raid was doing so much more burst

[balmy condor]

I think if sub/sin were balanced to be equal, it would be roughly the same

but with sub being ~10% ahead, you're seeing burst being ~10% higher as well

maybe even a little higher

[placid dawn]

even worse, can't even pull good numbers with a spec 10% ahead oh man

gotta practice some more i guess

[balmy condor]

compare tool in wcl, very good

shouldn't be too bad, just go over your logs a little, see whats happening, adjust

you got this

[placid dawn]

im pretty sure i know whats happening, i mostly forget to use worldvein and vanish for some reason

but even on opener when im sure i do everything right i do less damage, that i have to see more closely

[drifting ridge]

hey guys, I have one question: is there also a list of best trinkets for Assa Rogues in Shadowlandsß

*?

[balmy condor]

trinkets aren't quite finished being balanced

[drifting ridge]

okay

[vestal wren]

trinkets are wild rn

some seem way overtuned

[crimson palm]

Cuz some of em are wq rewards

So won't have it at the ilvl they are

[limber lion]

Talking about trinkets, Compendium of Storms looks pretty good for assa. Sims as my second best trinket, right next to 130 Plumage with a socket

[balmy condor]

yeah, that's prepatch jank

it has crazy uptime

[limber lion]

Herodamage doesn't even involve it, but I'd recommend simming it.

Most range classes already use it

It's pretty dank

[vestal wren]

dreadfire vessel looks like a good pick atm

but idk what people run on beta

[sweet pecan]

SL no longer does titanforging right? does that include adding sockets at random to items?

[balmy condor]

sockets are still random

titanforging is only random ilvl upgrades

sockets as well as tertiaries are still in

[sweet pecan]

so speed and leech n stuff

[balmy condor]

yeah

[crimson palm]

dreadfire vessel looks like a good pick atm
@vestal wren the 800 haste one on assa is decent

[vast forum]

@sweet pecan only 6 slots can have sockets and you can add them to gear by farming the maw

[sweet pecan]

so the game tracks how many sockets you have regardless of where you slot the item, or are there only 6 gear types (head, legs, trinket, etc) elligable for sockets?

[surreal solar]

Gear types eligible

[sweet pecan]

ok

[vale quest]

Sin is my fav spec in the game, i feel bad when its not good i heard it sux ass in SL

[vestal wren]

its low tuned in pre patch

beta is not tuned, so its quite irrelevant

[vale quest]

o good

[vestal wren]

this also means that classes/specs that are atm strong on beta might not end up this strong in sl

[vale quest]

alright

[vestal wren]

you can expect a lot of ranged dps to sooner or later start crying about how terrible blizz is because they destroyed their class if we see intial tuning changes

[vale quest]

lol

frostmage

[vestal wren]

even tho this is not beta, but i think it showcases some tuning problems we atm have quite well:

ranged dps do far to much damage, melees can't compete

dk is the only outliner in pre patch

[obtuse ruin]

Is that patchwerk?

[vestal wren]

thats wacraftlogs for nyalotha

so actual ingame ranking for the current raid

[obtuse ruin]

O yeah

[surreal solar]

Can’t even fight a spriest in pvp, they do sooo much dmg

[vestal wren]

but looking at the graph, its quite clear that this won't be the balance goal

for Shadowlands

we saw tuning for nearly all systems for sl

blizz started iterating on conduits last week

trinkets might be next, but hard to say

cross class tuning won't happen before all of those systems are in a somewhat reasonable place and most bugs are ironed out

its possible that SL release is before we see cross class balancing

[quaint sequoia]

if they not give a new date soon they should delay it to 2021

[vestal wren]

there is a lot of speculation on a date

but i doubt it will be delayed to 2021

[keen iron]

It wont be delayed past 2021. Even says when you preorder

They will release prior to Christmas though whether it's complete or not. Probably pre thanksgiving

[icy ember]

i hope they release it after cyberpunk comes out

[foggy solstice]

hi

i have issue can u look my log im hatchisan ^^ i do 0 dmg :/

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2f4rhYcbgpWnKHRT/

[loud light]

well for one, you cast vendetta on pull and then the next time was at 3:56

and you didn't ever use your major essence

you're running shrouded suff with master assassin (odd) and never cast vanish during the fight either

[grizzled jay]

what he is saying is you need to read

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[loud light]

yeah brush up on the basics and maybe work on your ui so it's easier to know when your CDs are coming back up if that's a problem for you

[fading wigeon]

Is there a weakauras that tracks the Kurian ability?

[strange python]

ok ty guys (im hatchisan)

[signal kayak]

how are yall simming for m+ again? Hectic cleave/ add cleave

[royal lantern]

dungeonslice is pretty optimized for rogue

[signal kayak]

Thanks.

[atomic willow]

I thought dungeonslice was bad for rogue?

[balmy condor]

@warped temple loves dungeon slice, it’s his favorite way to sim. He sims it every single day, and he’s happy about it. Isn’t that right buddy

[urban marsh]

anyone knows if the legendary Doomblade damage stacks?

[balmy condor]

No

Just refreshes duration

[urban marsh]

Hmm, thanks

[frigid kestrel]

Hmmm..... what I miss? Havnt been lurking since Pokemon DLC drooped on Thursday.

[balmy condor]

Nothing

[frigid kestrel]

Doom blade not broken anymore (as In its not BIS)

[balmy condor]

It got fixed ye

Conduits got smashed into the floor

That was Wednesday

[frigid kestrel]

I missed that

Well not the conduits

But I didn’t see the Doomblade fix

[balmy condor]

Was just in there I believe

Just a missing 0

[urban marsh]

wasnt bloodfang broken?

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

It was stupid good

[balmy condor]

It was 95% instead of 9.5%

Because they missed a 0 in one of the updates

[frigid kestrel]

With Doomblade we were like what, %15 behind sub ye?

Sub got hit heavy Wednesday as well, what’s the difference now?

[balmy condor]

10%

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw now sims the best

[fleet whale]

too many buttons to press

[grizzled jay]

just go 2x wits so you don't have to take ghostly strike

[obsidian ruin]

@grizzled jay you re refering to prepatch, not sl beta right?

Outlaw now sims the best

[grizzled jay]

Both

Outlaw is only like 100 dps behind Sub in beta Sims, which just makes it a better raid spec cause it's a lot better in AoE than sub

[balmy condor]

[fleet whale]

well, there are other things to consider too

like sub has better burst damage than outlaw

which can be very important for progress

[strange python]

uh

It really depends lol

[obsidian ruin]

@grizzled jay im "inclined to agree". especially becuz how the 2 relevant bosses look like in nathria. played it for raid tests and on generals for example (we played the adds by marking one to kill off 1 by 1) was topping the focus dmg by a mile + great overall (tested sub to compare a few pulls), denathrius p1 & moreso p2 are great for the spec aswell

it was obviously benefiting from flurry bugs & flurry not being nerfed but ye

in principle

i kinda agree still

[grizzled jay]

You can double-dip on Sire with BF on Sword, so Outlaw is gonna slap on that fight.

Sin will too.

[obsidian ruin]

yes exactly

also the reason why

[fleet whale]

so sub dead for denathrius?

[obsidian ruin]

necro in my humble opinion

will be the pic

for the race

[grizzled jay]

I am probably going SBS for Nathria specifically

[obsidian ruin]

^

[grizzled jay]

Then once I get CE, swap and max out Renown for another Covenant

Then when we get info on 2nd raid tier, go whichever Covenant is better

[drifting cloud]

are you in a new guild because your old one isnt getting ce first tier

[grizzled jay]

But SBS with rank 7+ Potency on Sire is going to

Do a lot of DPS

[drifting cloud]

wont have 8months of time

[grizzled jay]

Well luckily the guild I got CE with wasn't actively raiding Ny'alotha for 8 months

[obsidian ruin]

i dont see OL being so close reflected in the sims from yday tho

[balmy condor]

that's probably cause it isn't

[grizzled jay]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/768755679158599730/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/768761100417892362/unknown.png

Just going off these

[fleet whale]

celerity op leggo

[low girder]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/768935873793359872/subtlety.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/769466768875454484/outlaw.png

[fleet whale]

any reason why rank 7 is like the benchmark for conduits

[grizzled jay]

ye that dungeon slice kinda proves my point though. Outlaw can be a little behind when the 2 fights that matter in Nathria are cleave fights

[low girder]

6 is the max out of m+, so it's a guess that r7 is mythic

[fleet whale]

also tmb that depends on what your raid needs

even on cleave fights, sometimes you need more st

[low girder]

no guarantees though

[balmy condor]

wait so sub sims higher, but

Outlaw now sims the best

y i k e r s

[royal lantern]

ye like

orgozoa was a "outlaw" fight

i needed too play sin cus we needed more st

[fleet whale]

Hell N'zoth is an "outlaw" fight

but a lot of rogues still went sin for more boss damage

[royal lantern]

like

rogue is 1 of the few/the only case where you sacirifce 1dmg potential for the other

in most cases you HAVE enough aoe in your raidgroup,people just need too actually do it

its pretty normal for some people too tunnel boss until you actually tell them too focus adds^^

[flat cloak]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[glacial timber]

bruh when did the venthir ability become the worst one

[balmy condor]

uh

like 2 weeks ago

[glacial timber]

hmmm because of the 1min cd or something?

[balmy condor]

don't actually remember

there was a bunch of covenant tuning

and then it just shook out to be not great

[fleet whale]

it's also kind of a pain to line up for sin, even when it starts working properly

[balmy condor]

yeah

[fleet whale]

It just takes too long to rack up stacks on it with such low gear levels for sin

[grizzled jay]

it became the worst when the duration went from 45s to 20s

25s of less lashes, which is the big part of the ability, is a rough one

[fleet whale]

and with the duration so short

it just doesn't really work that well with sin

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw and Sub can hit it pretty easily because it lines up with their energy cooldowns, so they can burst finishers in the window. But Sin doesn't have the same sort of windows.

[shadow tulip]

And is very very slow

[fleet whale]

Honestly it almost makes me wish slaughter was back lawl

[shadow tulip]

I still like it better than the other 2 specs...

[grizzled jay]

Well tbf

Sin can hit it with the Conduit

You start with 5/20 with the Conduit

so you only need to finish 3 times in 20s

[shadow tulip]

Need haste / crit for that prolly?

[grizzled jay]

No I don't think so.

[fleet whale]

idk though, i still don't think it's all that great for sin

maybe it will be eventually

[grizzled jay]

It's a weird ability. Outlaw and Sub would prefer a longer duration to get more lashes, but Sin would prefer a shorter duration/cooldown (that it can hit reliably) to get access to the haste sooner.

[shadow tulip]

Not like I want to go venthyr

Oh, the opposite

Nightfae kinda butchered, so I'll be fine with kyrian

[fleet whale]

nightfae really isn't butchered

[shadow tulip]

Well, 1 stealth ability is different than doing an actual vanish

[fleet whale]

it wasn't as big as a nerf as you think it was, the dot hits like a truck

[grizzled jay]

It was always going to happen this way cause they don't want Legendaries and Covenants to be closely synergistic. That's why Convoke for Balance got gutted.

[shadow tulip]

I know, I'm just sad. Would have worked so well with MA

[fleet whale]

does the dot still interact with shiv in any way

[shadow tulip]

I think not, it's a bleed not a poison?

[fleet whale]

sepsis is nature damage

[balmy condor]

sepsis dot works with shiv

[shadow tulip]

Oh

[balmy condor]

instant damage at the end does not

[fleet whale]

still, has some synergy with Well placed steel

[grizzled jay]

Indeed. WPS ranks + Potency ranks might make Sepsis scale well. Unsure if the sims are currently using r15 conduits or not

[balmy condor]

r7

since 15 is not obtainable

[grizzled jay]

ye

wonder if the r15 values are saved so i could bug fuu to sim it

[balmy condor]

they are

you can just sim it yourself

[fleet whale]

for assassination though i like playing around with SBS, ER, and sepsis

it's really only flag i don't like from a gameplay perspective lol

[grizzled jay]

thinking i know how to sim

[balmy condor]

time to learn

:D

[flat cloak]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow bridge]

until sin's energy is moved away from bleed ticks the spec will feel bad

🙂

[fleet whale]

?

[balmy condor]

that's not the problem sin has

but okay

[vital haven]

WOW IS DOWN DUDE

nvm

[hollow bridge]

what is the problem sin has?

[balmy condor]

the damage is too low :D

sin is the slow spec

and the fact the energy is tied to bleed ticks makes it scale into aoe nicely

[hollow bridge]

perhaps you are right, i don't enjoy the slow specs any more when there are that many melee classes with front loaded damage for time trial content

[balmy condor]

there's time trial content in the game?

that's news to me

[hollow bridge]

time based content

ie mythic plus

even raiding is time limited, in that most fights have soft enrage and hard enrage

[drifting cloud]

🤔

[hollow bridge]

simply put i am saying I would enjoy if there was a playstyle where i could subterfuge, ambush x 3 into envenom x 2 with MFD and not be energy starved. oh well

[balmy condor]

but subterfuge garrotes literally just do more damage

like energy aside

[fleet whale]

i mean energy does exist for a reason

[balmy condor]

you're doing less damage

[fleet whale]

like energy based classes are usually gonna have downtime regardless

even sub

[hollow bridge]

i understand, garotte does more damage over time not more damage front loaded, it would be nice if there was a way to have both styles of gameplay, but i know blizzard dev's dont like having a spec being multi faceted as that makes balancing it too hard for them

[balmy condor]

yeah idk

that's sub and outlaw

I think sin is fine not having omega up front

there's more than enough specs that already do that perfectly fine

and it just doesn't fit the fantasy

[hollow bridge]

yeah sure hence i said perhaps you are right. I just enjoy for example in content I overpower ie world content and low level dungeons if i could just burst hard, as you said there is sub or outlaw for that. I personally am not liking how conduits and soulbinds work regarding multi speccing

I would appreciate if the devs made it simpler to multi spec and less punishing

still I will have a rogue alt play assassination as in general poisons are fun

[drifting cosmos]

Sin hasn't been front loaded since pb was nerfed

Even with pb and shoulder it was still a luck thing

It's just never known as the front load type

[hollow bridge]

Yes I know. I just like the aesthetic of poisons and want a front load playstyle. I understand that won't be happening

[vestal wren]

Sin should be by design the sustained damage spec

it felt a bit weird when it was the best burst spec in the game for a while

[pliant apex]

I agree Jimmy

[hollow bridge]

@vestal wren can you explain what you mean by the strongest burst spec in the game for a while? Surely fire mage and destro burst harder in pve...

[balmy condor]

exsang + exped was competitive with fire mage burst

[vestal wren]

assassination was one of the specs with the highest burst damage during some periods of bfa

[sweet pecan]

i disliked axsang so much

it didnt fit spec flavor

[crimson palm]

We beat mages on ST burst lmao

But as soon as 1 more target appeared

[hollow bridge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YlPIqvjMp4&ab_channel=InfexiousRogueGuides

I still see the mages competing or doing more

thats obviously an extremely small sample size AND this build only works in mythic raiding/raid scenario

[balmy condor]

infexious videos

[warm drift]

oh boy here it comes

[balmy condor]

[hollow bridge]

I understand the current TC is that sin needs more dps for 60, i'm just saying that there could be more ways for gameplay to evolve if the dev's wanted to

its just an example, i dont have logs/videos of you or anyone else

i can look at the top 25% logs of sin rogues versus firemage with kill times since august/september to see the burst at the start

of fights like wrathion, maut, skitra, shad etc

[warm drift]

whats the defition of burst btw? the most dmg in ur cds?

or a specific time?

[hollow bridge]

All I'm saying is that I think Assassination would feel better and play better without SND and energy regen tied to bleed ticks, but game dev's and TC's know best

[balmy condor]

that's 100% your opinion

and you're entitled to it

[hollow bridge]

sure but for a TC to state the only objectively problematic thing with a spec is damage...

[balmy condor]

sin as a baseline is a very robust spec

there's some boring talents for sure, and the lack of an aoe finisher baseline is a confusing choice

but as a spec, it works, and has worked the same way since mop

To dislike the playstyle is perfectly normal

But it’s not inherently flawed because of it

[warm drift]

aoe would be boring with normalized nrgreg

i like how it is

[hollow bridge]

perhaps I just miss when FoK was the way for aoe

instead of balancing bleeds with fok as the generator only

[balmy condor]

So.... 8.3?

And prepatch even

We play the same way

Hell, hidden blades is a competitive talent going into the next expac

[hollow bridge]

sure Sin has played the same way the whole of BFA or similarly enough with either SS being strong or EB being very strong of course EB not a thing until 8.1 with the rework to some of the azerite traits

[vestal wren]

i disliked axsang so much
don't worry exsang looks terrible in sl

[hollow bridge]

I guess what I'm talking more about isnt TC so perhaps I should be in ideas chanenl and not the spec channel

I would like to see talents either completely removed or changed to lots of point we opt into even if its boring or simple things like 5% crit chance

Exsang is terrible because bleeds dont do enough damage right?

[balmy condor]

Alacrity is also very strong

[crimson palm]

I still see the mages competing or doing more
@hollow bridge

[vestal wren]

fok initially did insane aoe

fok and storm are now wet noodles

[crimson palm]

Mb I should have weirdchamped the infexious video

[vestal wren]

things like Echoing can make them hit hard, but they don't do a lot of damage baseline

[crimson palm]

But the entire convo is cringe so w/e

[hollow bridge]

yeah, I mean back in Wrath FOK was a set and forget AE spell kinda. I know they have changed that heavily and done the targetcap

[balmy condor]

I already did hemo, just add your weirdchamp to the painschamp

Ez pz

[hollow bridge]

Imagine being so insecure to tell someone a conversation they are having is cringe...

[balmy condor]

Y’all calm down

[crimson palm]

Imagine being so bad that you open infexious videos

[pliant apex]

True Jimmy lol

[crimson palm]

And link them here on top of that

[hollow bridge]

there it is the gatekeeping is strong with you

[vestal wren]

hemo, there is no reason to bash infex even if you disslike his content

[pliant apex]

People don’t like criticism Jim, or facts for that matter

[crimson palm]

If you consider the common knowledge bashing then w/e lmao

[hollow bridge]

btw i'm not here to defend infex or bash anyone. I wanted to genuinely discuss ideas about changes for QOL or to make sin more fun, seems the spec is peak fun for some so I understand that any proposed change isn't wanted

and thats fair enough

[pliant apex]

Agree 100% assa needs to be better, funner , way funner

[hollow bridge]

I think most people enjoyed 8.3 sin when you were almost global locked

[vestal wren]

if burst style gameplay is fun, sin should not the first choice

[hollow bridge]

OR sin at launch with the exsang build in Uldir for seeing huge damage

Great point fuu

[balmy condor]

I personally didn’t like gcd locked

[pliant apex]

Why not fuu

[vestal wren]

because the spec design is through sustained damage

[hollow bridge]

I still think there should be a way through both design and balancing of dps numbers that you can have a burst style of sin and then the slower methodical sustained dps

[pliant apex]

Hmm

[vestal wren]

sin having high burst phases was a side effect of essences

[pliant apex]

I still think there should be a way through both design and balancing of dps numbers that you can have a burst style of sin and then the slower methodical sustained dps
@hollow bridge this

[hollow bridge]

Hmm fair enough whispyr, but do you find things like snd good?

[balmy condor]

I personally like snd, yes

[hollow bridge]

its an additional maintenance to the already existing balance of sustained damage

okay fair enough

[balmy condor]

I press it every 45 seconds

[low girder]

idk why people want to change sin to be gcd locked when we already have 2 specs that are basically that

[vestal wren]

the spec was always a heavy maintenance spec that had majority of damage in dots over time and benefits from this by not being to affected from downtimes

[surreal solar]

In SL it also adds energy regen, smoothing out things

[hollow bridge]

dont you prefer to say have higher uptime on envenom and see the damage/poison interaction?

[balmy condor]

Snd doesn’t take away a lot of uptime

[hollow bridge]

thistle thats with the empowerment from levelling yeah?

[low girder]

over a 5 minute fight you cast snd like 8 times

[balmy condor]

And snd actually gives a lot of poison damage

[vestal wren]

if you shift all damage into burst phases then you kind of break the entire concept

[low girder]

it's not that many finishers