and people gravitate towards playing the stronger specs
#assassination
vestal wren
balmy condor
yeah
and tbh, with legion+ shadow dance it's honestly not that bad
yes you'll lose damage
vendetta works the same way though
if you vendetta and got 10 seconds where you can't hit the boss, sucks too
vestal wren
its easier for vendetta
having a longer cooldown does mean you often don't lose casts if you delay it
balmy condor
yeah for sure
vestal wren
for subtlety, the snowbally nature just punishes you hard for misusing it
balmy condor
having 2 charges on sd helps
but obviously shorter cooldown means more missed cooldowns
vestal wren
well not rly
you have a higher cp income during dance, what means you directly lose casts if you burn a charge wrong
vendetta is static, you lose damage but not vendetta casts if you use it wrong
balmy condor
sure but the situation given was you have to do a mechanic so you lose uptime
you can blow your sd, do the mechanic, come back, without losing cooldown time
vestal wren
assassination also does quite good damage during downtime what mitigates that
low girder
in its current iteration i disagree
vestal wren
oh absolutely
low girder
downtime dmg on sin is massively overstated the way it is now
balmy condor
its just that the community perspective still is this weird concept that sin can walk away and do 80% of its damage just fine, where as sub you walk away and you're missing sd and sod casts and wasting energy and you're so doomed omg my damage I can't
which is overblown to reality on both ends of the spectrum
vestal wren
sin can if rotated somewhat reasonable maintain quite good damage during downtime
on sub you just lose out on damage
so the perception is not entirely wrong
but thats actually a positive point for assassination, its good that the spec is very forgiving
low girder
idk, i just feel like the dmg is overstated. sin's dots are like maybe at most 20% of its dmg, it's not really the being away from the boss that hits sub, it's the cdr
balmy condor
I think its overstated as well
low girder
and i think people get the wrong idea if that's not explained
balmy condor
but its definitely sin favored
low girder
for sure, i think people just get this idea that sin being off the boss for long periods is fine. it's not, i don't think it's even comparable to like a feral in that regard. unless feral's damage has reshuffled again.
balmy condor
verbal mantle
duuuudes thanks for that cause a lot of ppl think that way
frigid kestrel
Honestly i think the mobility that is 2 shadowsteps and shadowstrike/Vanish makes the movement part of the discussion less impactful
low girder
it's still impactful for them much more than us just because of how the cdr works. and i get it. idk. just the misconception is strange to me.
balmy condor
community finds a thing, and blows it out of proportion
such is the way of hiveminds
low girder
i'd be curious to see how it affects outlaw with all its changes as well. probably more than it was in bfa.
frigid kestrel
how did this become a hot topic? did something change?
like, this is the second or third time i seen this in the last two days
low girder
nah, just now that sub is like, a spec again the differences are discussed more often
low girder
it's definitely something i want to play around with and watch for over the next tier or two. assuming i can spec swap easily. :\
balmy condor
don't tell blizzard
verbal mantle
sub stayed dormant for an entire expansion too so ppl notice diffrent design patterns again
low girder
i do think if/when the tuning happens people will stick to sin for early prog
just for ease of use
balmy condor
if it gets close enough, for sure
verbal mantle
thats what im wondering tbh
low girder
if sub stays the like 10% ahead, that won't happen
frigid kestrel
Both specs are fun to play (speaking for me)
verbal mantle
mmh sure? sin always seemed the best spec to prog, and I had the occasion to see it
low girder
unless there's a fight with large amounts of downtime
(i haven't looked that closely in a while)
verbal mantle
did you do CN Mata ?
low girder
nah i never got beta
verbal mantle
unless you dont have beta
low girder
lmao
frigid kestrel
Sin just needs a lil more of something to be fully enjoyable for me again. and i dont know exactly what that something is..... like meat that you ate and you cant put your finger on what its missing
low girder
ability buffs
verbal mantle
damage % ?
low girder
for me at least
verbal mantle
lmao
low girder
i just want melee to stop being my top dmg
frigid kestrel
Ye white hits being top damage is actually insane
balmy condor
probably will change a couple patches in
shrewd night
low girder
lmao
frigid kestrel
for a poison/bleed fantasy class....... but damage is damage am i right? 
low girder
yeah it'll prolly outscale at some point
snd just made it overkill
and like, that's fine. i'm not an snd hater
just hope it doesn't stay that way until the last tier
balmy condor
ye same
frigid kestrel
SnD Makes instant poison a thing again. Instant on Main hand and Deadly on off hand 
I kid
in no way should anyone take that seriously in any shape
balmy condor
uneven marsh
Sorry for bringing back this topic, I just find it interesting as of prepatch I am just preparing for all specs in SL just in case.
I would love to be able to swap freely from outlaw for M+ to assassination to progress or sub for low downtime bosses.
But with legendaries, crucible,covenant,soulbinds or other shitty things, I doubt it...> how did this become a hot topic? did something change?
@frigid kestrel
verbal mantle
its k you have a swamp keeper in case of bs :D
balmy condor
:swamp:
low girder
the legendaries will only be a problem for spec swapping in the short term, especially since we can pick them this time around
frigid kestrel
@uneven marsh No need to apologize, i was legit thinking i missed something
low girder
if the covenant is good for all 3 and conduits/soulbinds don't have a large difference it'll be fine
and soulbinds i can't speak to, but the covenant abilities aren't all that different across the specs atm
balmy condor
didn't they say something bout conduits switching per spec
low girder
yeah idk how any of that works
balmy condor
I can't even remember what they decided on
frigid kestrel
DONT YOU FUCKING LIE TO ME @balmy condor
verbal mantle
frigid kestrel
You know what you did
Imagine the Blizz gods gifting us with options
like having different conduits per spec
balmy condor
I don't have beta
frigid kestrel
but.... thats also like 2 Wednesdays
frigid kestrel
so i very well could be wrong
time to take my ass downstairs and boot up BETA
thanks for this
balmy condor
lmao
low girder
they've reworked how conduits worked like 3 times, i barely remember anything anymore
drifting cloud
When first unlocked, the Forge of Bonds will be charged with 10 Conduit Energy, and placing a conduit into a socket will consume a single charge. Conduit Energy recharges at the rate of one per day, up to a cap of 10, and adding a new conduit to your collection immediately restores one Conduit Energy as well.
this is the current version
balmy condor
but if you change specs, do the conduits change with it
drifting cloud
or well thats the blue for it its not actually ingame yet I think
frigid kestrel
They didnt last i was on
drifting cloud
dont think they do, then 10 energy would be alot 😛
frigid kestrel
your stuck with using different soulbinds for the different spec
low girder
jk we had leggo balance
balmy condor
rip
frigid kestrel
or for your different builds (AOE ST) on your same spec
Once you put shit in your soulbinds they are stuck like that for the week
low girder
that'll change with the energy system, sorta
although that only mentions conduits, what about the soulbind path
are those still locked weekly lol
maybe we'll get an answer this week
balmy condor
yucky
frigid kestrel
I wish PB was a cast
I want more buttons
20 second CD or something
maybe more, maybe less
Ye Conduits do not change with specs
frigid kestrel
Your on punishment, go sit in the corner
i walked down two flights of stairs for this disappointment
low girder
i do think they talked about it at one point but that might've been during initial reveal
you know, with our pickpocketing stuff
umbral rapids
@balmy condor stop dreaming
frigid kestrel
ANd look at that, Melee isnt my most damaging ability because Bloodfang is overtuned
balmy condor
@umbral rapids 
umbral rapids
frigid kestrel
Welp back to bed i go
pseudo hamlet
Anyone know how much Assa is behind Sub(if any?) in the pre-patch?
Are we prioritizing SnD over Rupture in the ST?
Aaaaand last question about BETA - do Assassination feel slower than it's not in the pre-patch(if anyone have any info about that?), because with now with the essences it sometimes feels like I am GCD capped(almost as it was with the corruptions).
balmy condor
- anywhere from like 250-400dps depending on gear obviously
- yes, as well as in aoe
- it will be slower, we lose memory, and we lose a bunch of stats compared to what we have now due to level scaling etc
pseudo hamlet
Good to know, I always liked more slow-paced Assa than the GCD capped one. the only thing I wont like in SL will be amount of keybinds I will need to play properly 
pseudo hamlet
Considering that I've already had everything sorted out the 2 more is a drastic change. But I guess that's just me being lazy in a comfort zone
low girder
yeah you could but in most cases that's already a bind
balmy condor
I've heard a lot of people go "add a modifier ez pz"
low girder
and yeah still an extra button
balmy condor
and I don't get it
like, that's literally just a new bind
whats the difference
am I missing something
pseudo hamlet
I totally forgot about the Ambush(because of the blindside), so it's even 3(SnD+Covenant ability) more keybinds for me. 
balmy condor
how is it 3
regal cloud
I mean it's almost same keybind just add something less spamabble like a 20s cd
pseudo hamlet
SnD+Ambush+Covenant ability
balmy condor
tb -> shiv
essence -> covenant
pseudo hamlet
Wtf I forgot about the essences.
balmy condor
ambush and snd are the only "new" things to press
drifting cloud
wait cant you technically just bind ambush to muti
low girder
no
drifting cloud
doesnt do anything if no proc? 
drifting cloud
why is it GE
regal cloud
balmy condor
my blood is already boiling
drifting cloud
isnt it just a dumb macro that doesnt work 80% of the time
balmy condor
fuu made a gnome sequencer macro that binds ambush and mut together
and it works
and it makes me so furious
vestal wren
XD
drifting cloud
oh I see
drifting cloud
but it doesnt work without it? the hell
balmy condor
because the functionality doesn't exist baseline
vestal wren
because it would either skip ambush entirely or stuck trying to cast ambush
balmy condor
yeah
drifting cloud
ah ok makes sense
low girder
yeah that
balmy condor
and tbh, Idk why blizzard lets the loophole exist in the first place to allow you to do it
why does the in game macro functionality get extended by an addon
that seems super dumb
drifting cloud
why stop at 2
regal cloud
drifting cloud
those macros are nice for multiboxxing atleast
they work really well on some classes
on some, well not so much
regal cloud
vestal wren
🙈
/use 14
/use 13```
sick scarab
so guys.. is it worth to use some item wiht 3 sockets ?
for examples... legs 3 socket
vestal wren
you can sim it
sick scarab
agi+crit gem
sick scarab
ehehe
vestal wren
potential beta shenanigan too
sick scarab
well that is bnot bad i mean more combinations 🙂
vestal wren
pre patch is closer to sl than people assume
sick scarab
lol
vestal wren
would bc items justify too?
balmy condor
will give my PC a bath on stream
vestal wren
warlock:
balmy condor
eh eh eh fuu, mythic nathria on live ;)
regal cloud
Best tronket
winter moss
Assassination Rogue discussion, Shadowlands information is in the pins. !guide, !help, !sims
modding the mod 
balmy condor
maccie me and fuu are having a giggle go back to OT, mom and dad will be done soon
vestal wren
oh, i thought nyalotha
the trinket is potential good for rogue too
and old gems could end up being strong
regal cloud
Wdym intelec compendium?
balmy condor
its the damage
vestal wren
it procs 112 haste
balmy condor
from the effect
vestal wren
and is iirc nearly 100% up
regal cloud
balmy condor
not the int
vestal wren
just some pre patch shenanigans but ... well
vestal wren
people just try to fins something thats broken
*find
its always the same if any squish or similar happens
balmy condor
yup
an impossible task to make 15 years of content all balance properly when a squish happens overnight tbh
crimson palm
warlock:
@vestal wren lets just say if this one gets nerfed, arcanocrystal is 3rd best outsimming vita
sick scarab
true lol
vestal wren
i saw arcano sims, wonder if rogue could use it too
sick scarab
have to farm arcanocristal again LOL
ivory glade
hey guys
balmy condor
ivory glade
im kinda new to WOW so I was trying to find a good community to talk to and get advice from.
balmy condor
you've come to the right place maybe perhaps
outer estuary
ashen junco
guys why is the kingslayer's dmg so low
im like level 37
n some weapons tht dropped from mobs do higher dps
kingslayer does 2.2 dps for me
n one of the daggers i got deals 4.5
n the other does 3.1
balmy condor
Because scaling is weird
sterile jackal
also do you use artifact traits in your weapon? They do not give bonuses, but they scale up the ilvl of leg weapon
like this one
sterile jackal
they have ilvl added written on them
strange python
is snd en regen on live? Rank 2 snd just says it gives 20% more attack speed and rank 1 doesn't say anything about en either
sterile jackal
you need 54 lvl for rank 2
balmy condor
^
strange python
Yea and the tooltip doesn't mention anything about en regen
balmy condor
That’s cause you’re not level 54
strange python
...I can still see it in my spell book?
olive latch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
stiff frost
I kept my arcano crystal ..
stiff tapir
quick question, sorry if its been asked a lot.. but.. weapon enchants? gale-force main hand, force multi off-hand?
shy dust
grizzled ruin
@balmy condor yo do u know that at tbc hcs there are some gems that are half main stat and half secondar?a friend mage just went and got a 5int+5versa gem from Botanica
stiff frost
there is an area in BFA with raptors and dinos I just made a big circle around it killing in a small area and they have eggs that spawn pretty fast just kill and skin those
patent jay
what is good single target dps right now?
vestal wren
subtlety is atm the strongest of the 3 in single target
vestal wren
4k+
patent jay
ok
vestal wren
i assume
patent jay
gonna check warcraft logs i guess
verbal mantle
keep in mind it's prepatch and numbers arent relevant
vestal wren
numbers are always relevant if you want to compare yourself
vestal wren
but yes, tuning is all over the place and there is no new content in pre patch
sick scarab
anyone know how i can sim the tbc gems ? cant find them lol
surreal solar
Won’t matter, blizz will gut them shortly
vestal wren
add a enchant to your sim with the value
sick scarab
k tnx 🙂
digital pilot
here i made some rogue weakauras that are like ipse if poeple need them https://wago.io/p/Barmey_uk
stiff tapir
any recomendations on what enchants for weapons?
seeing force main hand.. quick / deadlty offhand
prisma yoke
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
grizzled ruin
havent found yet agi+versa gem but i did found 5crit+5 versa from underbog
uncut tiger
do poison hits or anything else count as spells to procc trinkets?
fleet whale
they should
delicate bone
? whats wrong with having tmog on store
vestal wren
nothing
stiff tapir
any recommendations on what gear to get
in order to increase this
i know trinkets is a big opportunity 🙂
grizzled jay
gems on all the rest of your gear
grizzled jay
🙁
stiff tapir
might craft a crit/verse ring
but i got a 130 crit/haste that sims better than everythign else
grizzled jay
honest rain
hey, is it already known which legendasy is BIS dmg wise?
they bufeed the gushing one
*buffed
sweet pecan
the bis legendary was inside of you all along
fleet whale
the gushing one was buffed but appears to be overbuffed by accident
honest rain
so doomsblade is next bis?
fleet whale
as of now yes but Zoldyck appears to be close
grim mason
grizzled jay
Bloodfang? Not soft-nerf, just correct a coding error.
Zoldyck is better in AoE than Doomblade so if it's within a few percents of Doomblade you should just make Zoldyck as your first leggo for M+ week.
Then you can make Doomblade later and swap to it on pure ST fights.
wraith badge
with azerite being "removed" i.e. outscaled and not working in SL. for 25 talent is Subterfuge still the go to?
steel wagon
anyone know why shiv is in some of the new weak aura packs for SL?
is there something im not understanding or just havent looked up at all
lol
verbal mantle
because Shiv is now a baseline ability for all specs
steel wagon
i guess cause im using afenars its on the main rotation bar
ember mural
toxic blades damage amp got rolled into shiv
steel wagon
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
verbal mantle
well
drifting cloud
at 50 its bad but at 60 it will be
wraith badge
guessing noone knows about the level 25 talent thing?
fleet whale
I think at the start for pure st, MA will be the better talent on that row
wraith badge
Thank you Varolyn
upper elm
hey quick question which poison do assa use in m+? ^^
fleet whale
deadly poison for lethal
upper elm
ok thx
balmy condor
Sorry fir the late responses
@stiff tapir gale/multi single target, multi/vers or crit nav for crit build in m+
@grizzled ruin yes those gems are some bullshit xD
@wraith badge yes, as of now, there are simulations and stuff in the pins as well. Night fae + master assassin is pretty good though if you’re going to run that
grizzled ruin
they already nerfed em 😛
i mean who cares that classes balance is bonkers-gems give +3 stats we need to NERF ASSAP!!!!
balmy condor
The gems at that level would’ve been problems in shadowlands too
They’re just fixing the scaling problems that came up
Squishing levels, stats, and redoing the leveling system is gonna have problems peeking from the cracks
surreal solar
I really don't like Master Assassin... If subterfuge isnt far behind, I'm going to go with that regardless
grizzled jay
I much prefer MA and NS over Subt lol
strange python
I wish I could run NS over everything for both sub and sin just to run faster
grizzled jay
Problem with NS is it operates in the same scope as Subt (buffing a DoT part of our kit) so it'll never be stronger than Subt due to Garrote being far stronger than Rupture.
They need to delete NS/Subt from Assassination and give us better thematic talents in that row.
balmy condor
by that logic, isn't MA is the less thematic talent
since NS/Subt buffs a dot, which is thematic?
grizzled jay
isn't a talent called Master Assassin the most thematic in a spec called Assassination
balmy condor
not in gameplay
grizzled jay
Crit affects DoTs as well, tbf
fleet whale
Assassination has had it's moments of direct damaging spells being it's main source of damage
back in Legion we vanished for big envenom crits
fleet whale
it varied from person to person
royal lantern
you used vanish for a big hit
grizzled jay
yah Mut with DD proc is a big hit
royal lantern
dont know if it was mut or env tbh
royal lantern
too long ago
ember rover
You never vanished for envenoms in BFA
thin gate
u had full combo points envenom multilate envenom
royal lantern
ye i think that was the rotation then?
ember rover
With the DD build you vanished for Mutis and with SS build you vanished for ruptures
fleet whale
there were multiple ways of doing it and yes you could vanish envenom
royal lantern
i think the normal widespread go was env mut env
ember rover
Yes, you could vanish for envenoms if you wanted to do lower DPS than vanishing for Mutis, you are correct
royal lantern
or env mut 2cp alt f4
fleet whale
it wasn't that large of a difference
thin gate
didnt u go into stealth with full combo points ennvenom multilate envenom
royal lantern
that going for the dd was a REALLY big gamble
cus you cant gurantee that proc anyway
and that the proc crits
surreal solar
I'm still gonna be the foul potato thats behind however many points avoiding the tight window that is MA
strange python
it made no difference to me what I fucking vanished for, I'd always end up on the wrong side of the 80% crit chance anyway
ember rover
So yea, if you were that 3% unlucky guy that didnt crit
balmy condor
this went downhill fast
ember rover
I remember using Exshang during BoD progression
royal lantern
what
fleet whale
?
royal lantern
low girder
you either are misremembering or were doing it wrong
royal lantern
fabolous
ember rover
Could be
low girder
also most of EP we ran CLF, not BotE
grizzled jay
sucks i'm on an RP realm so I won't get people whispering me cause Asmon told them too
royal lantern
exsang was somewhat usable in uldir cus SS was op as fk
then garbage until the corruption vendor
grizzled jay
@low girder you mean WV
royal lantern
not used for 8.1 and 8.2 and the first few months of 8.3
grizzled jay
EP was giga WV meta
fleet whale
not much exsang in BoD
grizzled jay
unlucky
low girder
because no one else did
grizzled jay
our RL basically forced people to take it
it's free dps lol
i used WV for most of Ny'alotha too
royal lantern
wv is underrated
royal lantern
only fight where wv sucks is xanesh
strange python
Exsan hurt my feelings sometimes, kill attempt on nzoth, vanish garotte, exsan the dot, annnnnnd hit garotte by accident
low girder
WV wasn't that popular
strange python
fucking oof
royal lantern
cus you move too much on her
fleet whale
WV was also buggy as hell in EP
ember rover
Actually you're right, checking my logs I progressed BoD in 8.1 and 8.2 since we were selling mounts xsD
I remembered the exsangs from 8.2
royal lantern
fleet whale
brah exsang was legit worse than venom rush
strange python
The best pepe
fleet whale
in 8.2 lol
strange python
wtf are they going to do with venom rush now that alacrity is in the tier
balmy condor
they already buffed it
strange python
shouldn't say that out loud, they'll nerf alac probably
grizzled jay
VR is the World Content / Leveling talent
strange python
they buffed rush?
grizzled jay
It's good where it is
balmy condor
yes
strange python
I missed this
low girder
yeah it's 8 now
balmy condor
5 -> 8
low girder
still bad though
fleet whale
i'll probably still just run alac everywhere lol
royal lantern
i mean
grizzled jay
I wouldn't call it bad. It makes chain pulling feel nice.
strange python
still not worth with dashing?
royal lantern
venom rush is so "good"
that you probably killed stuff faster with the TB cast dmg alone
low girder
i mean i'm saying numbers here, not feel
balmy condor
why would dashing make it worth
grizzled jay
yah it does less like sustained dps
just saying it makes leveling feel nicer than alac
balmy condor
it's strictly worse than alac
strange python
That's more how I thought of it
low girder
idk i never consider sin for leveling lol
fleet whale
People like to talk about venom rush being bad, but exsang is just as bad if not even worse in SL
balmy condor
yup
low girder
they can both be bad
balmy condor
they're roughly equal
grizzled jay
Have it reset the duration of all your DoTs as well as double the tickrate
strange python
redesign sin so I can be a pretend poison wind globadier from warhammer
fleet whale
Sin is almost all about poisons in SL
grizzled jay
you can be 'all about poisons' but still have strong bleed talents
drifting cosmos
So one expansion poison and next bleed, rinse and repeat
fleet whale
BFA wasn't a "bleed" expansion till the end
balmy condor
uldir had bleed too, and we were bleed in m+ all expac
so I think there's some merit to it
but DD was also very strong
fleet whale
at the very start yeah in the pre patch
fleet whale
was nerfed before legion was launched, Blizz tried to make it a thing again in ToS
fleet whale
but all it did was make sin bad for that tier, so the antorus set gave poison damage
nah, it went from 400
to 100
fleet whale
then it was 150 in tos
grizzled jay
we'd kill someone in pvp in like 10s
daring parrot
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
rose wagon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sand otter
ok fellow stabbers,
feeling like im getting better, and finally was top a few fights.
i take all advice, and criticism to heart. so let me have it
balmy condor
no memory minor is huge rip
sand otter
ok its not simming better so ill try it
low girder
yeah i'd be extremely surprised by that unless it's not r3
balmy condor
feel free to link that too
sand otter
its rank 2
balmy condor
I'll take a look
low girder
2 might still be enough
sand otter
okies
balmy condor
should vanish when the garrotes fall off
sand otter
Gotcha
balmy condor
you also hold vendetta for the vanish
balmy condor
sand otter
i am dumb
sand otter
i kn ow raid logs puts be back but on the meters i was doing well
only got beat a few times by a warlock. and hes good
balmy condor
generally speaking rotation looks fine
just some weird cooldown usage and weird rupture uptimes every now and then
probably due to downtime
sand otter
understood
balmy condor
so try to keep your downtime to a minimum, get those cooldown phases into muscle memory
and should be easy peasy
sand otter
will do
it feeels so much like Lich King rotation so it just feels good to me, its when i felt at my peak as a rogue
sand otter
tytyty
balmy condor
no problem, good luck :)
low girder
yeah vers is highest for all 3 atm
low girder
well, agi first i suppose, but can't stack those lol
sand otter
xD
i know its too late but ill get memory 3
i just moved into a new home so i can focus on the game now
@balmy condor ty again, i can see a huge difference on the dummy, so ill work on all my memory for stuffs
balmy condor
sand otter
lusty heart
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
fallow otter
@balmy condor did you buy a trinket
balmy condor
No because I can’t be bothered caring that much
fallow otter
Me either
sick scarab
something is changed.. mmm i went from 4,3k dps to 4k.. wtf
balmy condor
in your sim?
drifting cloud
you had it at 3min maybe?
sick scarab
i changed nothing..
balmy condor
why not?
balmy condor
well then how do you know it was 4.3k
sick scarab
cause i remember
balmy condor
and you then cleared your browser history
sick scarab
yep 🙂
i always clear browser hystory 🙂
i am maniac of order auhhaum
jesus my gear suckds
they nerfed tbc gems
sick scarab
me neither lol
fallow otter
Check history top right @sick scarab
sick scarab
mha but who cares now is 4k 🙂
balmy condor
if he cleared his browser history, the cache would be gone too I assume
balmy condor
aha, account linked, good call stunk
fallow otter
It's not cache it's your account
sick scarab
i am mad then and dreamed 4.3k
dunno
now it say 4 and gg 🙂
tnx for the info 🙂
i have to add a socker dunno where
gloves , bracers , dagger or ? suggestion ?
fallow otter
Well i use dagger offhand
balmy condor
so doubt there's much going on there
balmy condor
great time isn't it
balmy condor
I thought that's cause its never worth rerolling or something
I vaguely remember something something "just hit the button"
I'm by no means an outlaw expert though XD
gray fjord
They dropped the energy cost of RtB in half, so I guess its worth if you're in pandemic range now or something. Not sure exactly what the big wigs came up with on that but that sounds familiar for logic, but only if you roll like Grand Melee or Buried Treasure single buffs or something.
fallow otter
2 shit buffs basically
gray fjord
Ah perfect timing, fuu. xD
vestal wren
the energy cost changes of rtb allow rerolling to be decent^^
crimson palm
get outlul out of here >.>
vestal wren
haha ^^
gray fjord
💔
balmy condor
reroll logic is back lmao everyone rejoice for the worst fucking concept in existence
vestal wren
well it won't be that big of an issue
balmy condor
yeah still cd for the most part
vestal wren
Slight off Hand ^^
balmy condor
shshhshhhshhhshshhh
vestal wren
but to be fair, its fairly certain that the trait changes
the trait in the current form just don't work well with ranks
but lets just delay this discussion until we have a new beta build with potential changes to conduits
low girder
I'm ready for my 1500% shiv dmg increase with conduit + leggo after this build
vestal wren
i haven't simmed the shiv legendary so far
will probably add to the list in the next update
it rly only makes sense for assassination tho
low girder
Yeah
gray fjord
I tried it with Well-Placed Steel conduit, made shiv sim as like 2.8% of overall damage or something, I forget. xD
Not terribly impressed with it at all.
low girder
I don't remember the math offhand when the leggo got changed, think it ended up being 950% or something
Vs base shiv
vestal wren
contuit balancing is atm just not great, so i would not make to many conclusions from it
low girder
With the conduit*
gray fjord
Ah I see, yeah it seemed about that point, because I think my shiv was hitting for like 3.4k, up from 490 ish at 195 ilvl
low girder
Yeah I think it was hitting roughly as hard as TB used to lmao
gray fjord
Oh for sure, Fuu, just even the proof of concept of the legendary sounds really odd to me, especially as a generic legendary at that.
low girder
Almost seems like a placeholder, but way too late for that
gray fjord
They couldn't even get the old version to work right. XD That one would have probably been more damage in 2 target fights if it did.
I don't think it worked ever in beta, I tried it several times over the last couple months to see if it'd make for some cleave DPS more efficient or something.
low girder
I was looking forward to it, could've been kind of interesting had they gotten it to work
Nah, it never did
gray fjord
That's what I thought, I hadn't touched it since the end of September I don't think.
vestal wren
btw. just to shatter your dreams, its unlikely that legendary items will end up with double the current value in impact zeratüle
gray fjord
3> But you can't let your dreams be dreams, Fuu
low girder
Lmao
gray fjord
A legendary should not be the same DPS gain as a paltry trinket. 8-10% seems appropriate for something to be deemed 'legendary', at least to me.
gray fjord
With how they're trending, yeah I wouldn't be surprised. Celerity is sitting pretty close to 8.5% I thought or something, so I'm sure it'll get chunked down again.
Anything less than 5% for a damage oriented legendary is laughable in my opinion.
vestal wren
there are only rly 2 outliners and thats celerity and ma (with sepsis)
gray fjord
Even for assassination, Duskwalkers is pretty anemic right now it seems.
low girder
No relics with vendetta reduction to combine it with this time
vestal wren
we have some weak ones that could need a slight buff
low girder
Might eventually be pretty good with gear scaling, whispyr had a sim somewhere
vestal wren
i agree that somewhere around 5 or 7% is low for a legendary item but it makes sense to not power creep extremely with every system
gray fjord
Again it just feels like a self-inflicted issue they imposed on their balance team by making so many systems to interact with, which I really think was the catalyst to that panic nerf we saw last week on legendaries due to power creep fears like you mention.
Duskwalkers may end up having some crazy good synergy with sepsis due to more vanish lineups with vendetta or something, I guess that'd be possible, @low girder . Or just gear/scaling in general too.I'm not a huge assassination buff and I just remember it being a pretty competitive option for a while in Legion for Assassination, but like you said there isn't anything to give it added synergy this time.
vestal wren
i take 5-7% dps from legendary powers over the ~3% mages saw after the first balancing round
low girder
I think the last snd r2 change gave it the possibility of getting vendetta down to 1m with further gear. nothing solid but a big maybe. and yeah maybe sepsis will do something with it at some point as well.
gray fjord
I was happy to see they came to their senses and brought some resource synergy back to SnD for assassination. Anyways I gotta crash for a few hours, more work in the morning. xD Have a good evening, everyone.
vestal wren
have a nice day/evening, seea
balmy condor
have a good one :)
tiny parrot
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
pure mauve
At this point of tunning is assa worse than sub in ST?
vestal wren
its ~10%
fallow otter
I follow the numbers
vestal wren
but potentially lower because sin can benefit a lot more from night fae in sl
vestal wren
its quite obviouse that sin is weaker
balmy condor
just need some tuning
vestal wren
i don't mind alacrity
fallow otter
We all know how much I love that
vestal wren
also ambush
drifting cosmos
You get more buttons cos snd
vestal wren
so 2 more buttons 
drifting cosmos
Is ambush in rotation?
fallow otter
Minus essence
vestal wren
well + covenant spells + covenant utility spell
balmy condor
ambush is in rotation in sl
vestal wren
so -1 +2
drifting cosmos
Oh unless you mean the talent or always in rotation
vestal wren
i mean you can macro ambush to mut 😈
drifting cosmos
Hmm that's not good too many buttons
vestal wren
blindside makes ambush a rotational spell
drifting cosmos
But I am glad we don't ggg no more
drifting cosmos
Oh
vestal wren
not sure about m+
i assume ambush will be used less because you usually want subterfuge
drifting cosmos
I still prefer legion sin button style
balmy condor
poison bomb can fuck off
drifting cosmos
In BFA took me a bit to get used to this ggg thingy
pure mauve
How much abilities per min does assa??
balmy condor
45ish with blindside
low girder
In SL like 45ish
drifting cosmos
And high penalty when ggg the wrong targets
low girder
RIP too slow
fallow otter
i mean you can macro ambush to mut 😈
@vestal wren this makes me sad btw
vestal wren
you need a addon to work
pure mauve
Uhm think i wont touch assa until 3rd patch
vestal wren
so its not "just macro it"
vestal wren
/cast ambush;mut doesent work
pure mauve
It is possible to macro in same button vendetta with mag'har racial?
vestal wren
i just made a prove of concept
balmy condor
you just macro those together like you would a trinket
drifting cosmos
Well it's more like need new keybinds for skills, don't really mind pressing them
pure mauve
you just macro those together like you would a trinket
@balmy condor thats nice 3 skills for the prize of 1 button
drifting cosmos
But wouldn't ggg be a lot weaker without ss
balmy condor
yup
drifting cosmos
Yet we still ggg, that makes me sad
balmy condor
but its 3 bleeds in 3 gcds which is huge
and the subterfuge garrotes are still pretty nice
they just aren't like 30% of our damage anymore
drifting cosmos
Why didn't we ggg in legion again
pure mauve
Any covenant ability works with assa extra energy regeneration with bleeds and poisons?
balmy condor
no
low girder
Because we had ma in legion
balmy condor
^
low girder
The leggo
balmy condor
also poison bomb damage was crazy
vestal wren
garrote with subter hits hard, so its likely that its better to apply garrote
low girder
And pb was like 50% of our aoe
vestal wren
don't think that changes with ma
low girder
Or more
drifting cosmos
If lucky
low girder
Jk it was 125% garrote lmao
drifting cosmos
Hows sin aoe atm? Weakest of 3?
balmy condor
yeah
balmy condor
it needs a lot of conduit help for aoe
hopefully a pk buff of some sort
or rework
lethal poisons is our main scale
drifting cosmos
Damn this reminds me of that pk bug in legion
balmy condor
so back to the pk of legion basically
drifting cosmos
Had some fun runs
vestal wren
it was rotational questionable
drifting cosmos
Well long enough for us to have some fun lol
vestal wren
but i mean people are all hyped about mage legendary items in sl that in essence also make the roation stupid
drifting cosmos
Frost mage?
vestal wren
"blizz designed that well", makes you spam only one spell
frost and arcane atm on beta ^^
drifting cosmos
Had a look the other day it seems strong
drifting cosmos
But who cares about mage, they just need to wait till last patch and swap to fire
vestal wren
i mean, i agree with the statement that rotational changes are not boring
but reducing the rotation to more or less spam one spell ... not my cup of tea
i mean, i think that rogue legendary items have a lot of boring choices
drifting cosmos
Well we have seen most items and new ones don't change rotations I think
vestal wren
but looking at conduits but PV(subtlety) or PK(assassination, with HB) both don't look appealing even if they change the rotation
drifting cosmos
Appealing or not that's all about numbers
I don't think ppl give a shot when numbers are there
vestal wren
numbers def. play a big role
but from a gameplay perspective, not all rotational changes are interessting
and most of those are only interesting if they are tuned very well
ember rover
Sadly, almost always people will chose numbers over fun
vestal wren
frost is currently busted tho
iirc one of their legendary items does significant more damage due to a bug
royal lantern
^
vestal wren
true
royal lantern
I like frost gameplay in SL
royal lantern
+its an alt,i dont give a damm if it is100%optimized
tropic ocean
Shadow next
low girder
You can't not care, or the theorycrafters will come for you
ember rover
Na, I hope they leave shadow as is then like make them the new enha shamans, as in below healers in DPS
tropic ocean
kinda interested to see how rogue feels in raid
But also kinda hope that servers suck today again so no raid
😅
slim estuary
I've been a bit busy... how are we suppose to play?
balmy condor
very carefully
thin stump
Just swap feral and keep the gameplay
ember rover
@tropic ocean it's almost same, just fewer finishers
slim estuary
is sub better yet?
balmy condor
yes
slim estuary
yikes, even without the broken leggo?
mossy mulch
Sublety rogue or Assasination Rogue for mythic nyalotha?
winged wind
Balance is changing constantly
tropic ocean
Sin > everything
You dont go round changing your denomination cuz of other one promising you absolution
hallow gale
i saw a guide that said assassin is the easiest melee class to play (after dh), and sub is the hardest one. is it true? and why then? sin has less skills in his rotation or something like that?
vestal wren
a lot of classes/specs are easier to play than assassination
just because a lot of players have issues keeping track of maintainance stuff
people just like judging specs and labling them as easy/hard
overall almost all specs in wow can be considered easy and most follow a similar gameplay pattern
some are outliners and require a bit more effort or practice, but all of it is managable
fading wigeon
And fury lol
vestal wren
it allows a lot more players to play in competitive environments and perform reasonably well
fading wigeon
All classes are easy to learn, but take time to master. So many nuances
sick scarab
well in vanilla warr was nice
in tbc also.. stance dance etc etc
it was not so easy.. now blizz burned all down to no brain smash
imho
halcyon grail
@hallow gale sub is pretty easy. Has been since Legion.
I think CT sin build was harder than Sub ever was too tbh. Pandemic windows and shit. Sub was only ever 'okay I have FW up and some CDs. Let's pump.'
lament aurora
personally I think CT/Exsang required a little more brain power than usual but squeezing every last drop of dps from sub takes equal finesse
halcyon grail
Mmm nah but it used to punish a LOT harder than the other 2 specs for errors.
Especially when back stab HAD to be 100% behind target so you were stuck spamming hemp instead of you couldn't be.
Even glyhped for the extra bleed you hurt on the meters.
royal lantern
@hallow gale ye idk,its like, you can argue that assassination is the "most easy" too play rogue spec, but outlaw and sub are like 2%"harder" at best cus like fuu said, all classes in wow are not hard too play, the difficulty in wow comes from encounter desing,not the class/spec itself
and even then,i would say sin is still probably 1 of the "hardest" melee dps specs cus we have stuff like arms warrior aka:"always repeate thesame thing with no variation", fury warrior with"get 100rage and then press rampage", paladin/frost dk with "press glowing buttons when they proc" etc......
talking about spec difficulty in wow is stupid cus everything is easy too grasp,you can do like 80-90%right after 1-3hours of playing a spec
ember rover
I've played all 3 specs pretty competitively this expac
I can, without a doubt, say that Outlaw is easiest of the three
In all contents, Raid, M+, whatever
Out of the three, the one that requires the most effort is Assa
And the one that flows the best is Sub
The assa and sub statements are personal opinion, but the outlaw statement is a fact
sacred yarrow
Sub flowed well?
ember rover
Yes, for the past 7 days KekW
sacred yarrow
Outlaw is def easiest
ember rover
Sub only existed for the past 7 days
sacred yarrow
Lol I read played competitively and thought fetid or zul and that's it
ember rover
That is correct, I was Zul Sub
delicate bone
really? id put outlaw=assa in terms of difficults and then sub slightly harder if at all. I mean again, all spec/classes in this game are easy as fuck if were being honest lol
sacred yarrow
Sin became easier to me when we had more energy
royal lantern
assa will be "harder" once lucid dreams is gone
sacred yarrow
Pooling fucks me
royal lantern
cus then people will probably start too strugle with keeping everything up again
royal lantern
but deepens how much the SnD change will do
delicate bone
thats just bad people
ember rover
The problem with outlaw, if you fuck up, your DPS loss is not that great. If you fuck up as sin or sub, your DPS loss is quite big
Coupled with the fact that outlaw is literally just use BTE on CD and then sinister till your fingers bleed
Makes outlaw an actual joke
delicate bone
not really sin though, if you mess up as sub, then yes i agree, but not really sin lol
sacred yarrow
Hey now outlaw is no joke
ember rover
Oh no, it is a joke, just not a funny one
royal lantern
man, that entire "spec war" bullshit just needs too go
delicate bone
its crazy how easy outlaw/assa are, and people still fuck up everything lol
royal lantern
outlaw sub and sin needs too unite against the REAL enemy
royal lantern
warlocks and dh
ember rover
I play rogue, I dont play a specific spec
delicate bone
same
ember rover
But I will try and play what's best for the content that I`m doing