assassination

[outer condor]

not only that, but damage has been scaled as well

I deal pretty much the same damage as I did on a wrath server, that's like 4-5 expansions prior

and I mean I know i've barely reached max level

but it's still quite a difference

[balmy condor]

we've also gone through 2 squishs since then

and about to go into a third

[low girder]

the range is all at the end after max now. they've done a few squishes because otherwise we'd be in the billions of dps

[outer condor]

what's a squish

[balmy condor]

in legion we were doing millions of dps

[outer condor]

i mean

is that a bad thing?

[balmy condor]

yes, because eventually it starts to lag

and you get weird shit

in mop the numbers where so high, the health on garrosh started getting buggy

[low girder]

yeah, like rn we would literally be in d3 levels of dmg

[outer condor]

that's a shame

[balmy condor]

if they didn't squish, we would be in the hundreds of millions, maybe even billions of damage

[low girder]

and wow isn't equipped to handle that

[balmy condor]

and then you'd start seeing serious performance hits

and you'd see bosses with HP that's in the trillions

like we're way past 32 bit integers at that point

[outer condor]

don't npcs like

sylvanas, thrall, varian

have billions?

[low girder]

the bosses do already

or have

unnerfed n'zoth was like 450m or something

[balmy condor]

yeah

its not close to max 32 bit

[outer condor]

am I allowed to mention other games?

as an example?

[balmy condor]

go for it

[outer condor]

don't know if any of you have played blade & soul

far from a perfect game

but with every patch and update, the damage you dealt and general stats of current content

would fuckin skyrocket

personally i'm a fan

cause i'm a monkey and i like big number

[balmy condor]

that's what happens between patches

corruption tripled our damage

[oblique lark]

w.h.e.r.e. m.y. v.e.n.t.h.y.r. c.o.n.d.u.i.t.? ...

[low girder]

we've gone from ~12k dps in uldir to over 100k

[oblique lark]

it's trolling

[quaint sequoia]

didn't we do like 16-20k in uldir?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[steady prairie]

fight dependent but yeah

[balmy condor]

but the point stands

[low girder]

not early on, anyway

i was pointing out early prog

[outer condor]

seeing big numbers is far from making or breaking a game

but it's pretty underwhelming imo as is

[quaint sequoia]

They could've made the squish backend and show big numbers to us still

[balmy condor]

that's just extra steps for nothing though

[quaint sequoia]

every squish feels like a nerf tho

would remove that feeling

[grim jay]

@outer condor well if you dont like it rn, you will be back at like 5k soon

tho

[low girder]

idk that it does

[outer condor]

don't worry, that's my current dps

i'll feel right at home

[low girder]

what feels like a nerf is losing the old stuff when you level up

[balmy condor]

yeah I kinda disagree with that as well

[low girder]

the numbers are kinda whatever

[balmy condor]

you do more damage in prepatch than you will in mythic prog

[low girder]

by like, double lol

[balmy condor]

well

yeah

kinda

[low girder]

didn't i sim for 6k

[balmy condor]

ye

[low girder]

r1 conduit and a leggo you'll be around 3 or 3.5k

[outer condor]

what feels like a nerf is losing the old stuff when you level up
i mean as you get new stuff old gear is kinda supposed to become obsolete

what would you want to keep

[balmy condor]

the traits

and the essences

[low girder]

traits, essences, legendaries, artifacts, etc

[outer condor]

ah, you mean features

not gear itself

[balmy condor]

well the features are the gear

so its kinda hard to lose gear

and not lose features

[quaint sequoia]

thats the problem with borrowed power tho

[balmy condor]

when they are the same thing

[outer condor]

i mean

you still technically have the legion artifacts themselves

[balmy condor]

sure

they don't do anything

[quaint sequoia]

I will suck ass to lose shrouded suffocation

[balmy condor]

and all the traits are disabled

but I still have them in my bank

yes

[outer condor]

my point exactly

[low girder]

not really a borrowed power thing, that's an implementation thing. tier sets are also borrowed power, you never lost that leveling up, it just got outscaled

legendaries were strong enough they probably never would've been

[balmy condor]

idk, in legion is was stupid

[low girder]

azerite it's harder to tell, depends on the trait i suppose

[balmy condor]

this is a garothi log from legion

17 mil crit

vs 1.9 mil normal hit

like in a fight

I'm not sitting there

counting 0's

i could not give a fuck

[quaint sequoia]

I liked that

I feel more powerful with bigger numbers

[outer condor]

yep

[balmy condor]

its just noise

[outer condor]

i mean what if you could simply abbreviate it

don't like counting zeroes, put an M behind it and shorten it

[pliant fractal]

crits for 17,000,000,000,000

yay

[outer condor]

honestly yeah

pretty much

[pliant fractal]

completely desensitized to damage at that point

d3 numbers

[balmy condor]

wow you're only doing 12,546,345,852,457,234 dps

get out of my raid

wtf

[pliant fractal]

Hey guys whats the difference between sub and outlaw?

12,305,509,480 DPS? oh so a 3% difference?

[low girder]

holy shit this talent made me lose 12M DPS

[balmy condor]

I actually ran a sim for the memes

and the guy simmed in the quadrillions

margin of error was +-270 billion

[pliant fractal]

lmao

[outer condor]

as memeable as this shit sounds

i don't see it as a bad thing

[balmy condor]

blizzards servers would like to have a talk with you then

[marble fjord]

probably a bit easier to balance when youre dealing with smaller numbers too

[balmy condor]

and easier to communicate

and easier to read

[pliant fractal]

Calculating a 100 damage hit vs calculating multiple entities doing millions of damage

[marble fjord]

yeah one small mistake

potentially huge issues

[pliant fractal]

data is magic

is just works

[balmy condor]

but!

but!

on the brightside

if you miss a 0

no big deal

[outer condor]

see

there it is

[balmy condor]

it all looks the same

[outer condor]

you guys were just being pessimistic

[pliant fractal]

I'm not being pess

what

[marble fjord]

its also way more fucking tedious trying to figure out how to optimise

when youre considering 10s of millions of damage

difference

instead of like

10k

[pliant fractal]

d3 gamers

[balmy condor]

lets tldr this:
pros

me like big number

cons

harder to read
blizz server stability
lag
easier to balance
more user friendly
generally not a fucking headache

I like it

lets 100000x all the numbers

[outer condor]

pros outweigh

[marble fjord]

big numbers tho

[pliant fractal]

whispyr, pessimistic as usual

SIGH

[balmy condor]

TRUE

[outer condor]

now you get it

[balmy condor]

whispyr the negative nancy

[lunar whale]

so im looking at the recent beta shit on wowhead and it seems necro got a nerf and kyrian got a decent buff?

[pliant fractal]

Whispyr

[balmy condor]

yes

[pliant fractal]

if there are 5 more 0s

you do more damage

yes?

more damage = good?

[marble fjord]

nono

you just need bigger numbers than your friends

[outer condor]

also yes

[marble fjord]

thats all that matters

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor it's in the game now

ilv 226

124 haste

[balmy condor]

lul get DR'd

[grizzled jay]

only 1.5m cd

down from 3m

alchemy stone

[balmy condor]

now that

is a good trinket

[grizzled jay]

[pliant fractal]

the real numbers

[grizzled jay]

oh

uhh

that's a trinkt

[balmy condor]

I parsed a 9000

get on my level

[grizzled jay]

313 haste every 1.5m

[balmy condor]

yeah

but its secondary stat

so its dead

go next

[pliant fractal]

[grizzled jay]

we can never escape Plumage

[low girder]

6s

wtf

[lunar whale]

so with todays nerfs/buffs im taking necro is no longer the best

[grizzled jay]

re-using trinkets lol

[fallow otter]

Reusing so many things for so many years

Tmb have you looked at our legends for sin

Lol

[grizzled jay]

what do you mean

[untold belfry]

PEOPLE KEEP SAYING SIN IS BORING...and I haven't had the gall to lie to them

[balmy condor]

[untold belfry]

is it still post stamp simulator in sl?

[balmy condor]

a what

[pliant fractal]

explain post stamp dps to me

[grizzled jay]

@fallow otter so what am i looking for

[icy ember]

im def going to use that trinket @grizzled jay

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/761034260818690048/unknown.png

[fallow otter]

Soz work stuff

They just reusing old stuff for our legends

So boorrraaannng

[quaint sequoia]

isn't that the case with the leggos for most classes?

[royal lantern]

All legendarys are old effects

For everyone

[fallow otter]

Yeah like the trinkets

Same old reused stuff

But after so many years it's hard to come with new stuff

[fathom swift]

Not for everyone

Some specs have new stuff

[surreal solar]

did they ever change whether we could have Numbing and Crippling up at the same time?

[balmy condor]

not to my knowledge

[surreal solar]

so we can still run Deadly/Crippling/Numbing?

instead of just Deadly/Crippling

[balmy condor]

yea

[low girder]

that got changed afaik

[balmy condor]

did it

[surreal solar]

rip

[balmy condor]

would be real cool to have beta sometimes

[low girder]

ikr

[surreal solar]

why can't they just let us have this

Outlul gets to poison on Blade Flurry

[low girder]

it was all specs tbf when that bug existed

[surreal solar]

yeah, i just don't want to have to pick between numbing and crippling

then again, crippling got gutted to 30%

[fallow otter]

I take crip off while doing keys atm

[balmy condor]

Prot warriors screaming at me

[frail birch]

It's ok, they're prot warriors

[balmy condor]

Yeah, if I make them mad, I’m never allowed to run m+ again

[vagrant loom]

Hey guys I'm fairly new to wow and haven't played many classes at high lvl

I was wondering how assassination plays out, you know, how is the 'feel' of the spec

I'm asking In regards to choosing a new main for SL

[balmy condor]

Sin is the slower, more considerate spec of the 3

It has to maintain garrote, rupture, and slice and dice in shadowlands

[vagrant loom]

Slower with massive number

Or slower with over time dmg

[balmy condor]

Over time

A lot of it will be poison based in shadowlands

But our bleeds function to give us energy, and still do okay damage

It’s a lot of juggling uptimes on the bleeds and slice and dice

So if that’s a turn off, probably not a spec for you

[fallow otter]

Zero big hits compared to other classes

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[fallow otter]

Death by papercut style

[balmy condor]

We don’t have any big flashy omega damage skills

Subtlety is the spec if you want that

Outlaw is also a crowd favorite, but we don’t talk about it here because we hate it ;)

Feels more like an rng warrior to me than a rogue

But that’s my opinion

[fallow otter]

Yeah it's like a rogue banged a fury warrior and they had a little baby

Whisp did you do hod maths yet

[balmy condor]

Uhhh yeah hold on

@fallow otter

[pulsar jacinth]

is assassination still viable for doing pvp?

[balmy condor]

Yes

#pvp as well :)

[pulsar jacinth]

what's the proper talent tree for pvp?

[balmy condor]

#pvp

They got pins

[pulsar jacinth]

gotcha

[fallow otter]

Math checks out @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Yeah, I made sure to show my work

[fallow otter]

Im going to use CT instead of alacrity in protest

Take that

[balmy condor]

CT over... alacrity....

Two different rows.....

[fallow otter]

It's a protest it didn't have to make sense it's about being heard

[pliant fractal]

[fallow otter]

Lol

[low girder]

time to use VR

[fallow otter]

Perfect protest situation

VR, CT and MfD master race

[balmy condor]

Tru tru

[vagrant loom]

We don’t have any big flashy omega damage skills
@balmy condor big flashy omega damage skills are awesome. What's the best class/spec for that

[balmy condor]

Uh

[low girder]

ret? lol

[balmy condor]

Probably destro

Tbh

[low girder]

true

[balmy condor]

Chaos bolts like a freight train raining fire from the sky and shit

[vagrant loom]

Anyone else?

Not too keen on locks

[royal lantern]

Ret? I gues

You are a weet noodle outside of wings

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk, wow isn’t too flashy to begin with

[royal lantern]

But with wings=big numbers

[balmy condor]

In terms of rogues, sub eviscerate hits hard

That’s sort of their thing

[low girder]

i was thinking of actual flash tbh

[vagrant loom]

Yeah I just wanna 'feel' strong even if the numbers aren't the best

You know those satisfying buttons to press

[balmy condor]

That’s very opinionated

I personally think sin is very satisfying

And people will tell me I’m brain dead for that

[loud light]

big and flashy has to be ret with wings up, right? or maybe DH meta

if you're going for pure feel

like you know vendetta is strong because of meters/logs but the POINT AT BADGUY animation is not exactly goku powering up

[vagrant loom]

I defs like warriors charging and leaping and spinning, that's pretty awesome

Rogues have some nice animations too (sub)

SL is looking good for levelling so I might give a few classes a try :) thanks for the advice guys

[balmy condor]

Anytime

[warm olive]

I just had 4 empowered garrotes within subterfuge window, how is that possible? it was within the vision, was that due to absurd haste buffs there?

[balmy condor]

yea

[warm olive]

ok, i thought its capped beyond a certain point and thats why we never reach 4

[balmy condor]

it is

cause 3 seconds, 3 gcds

but in visions, time speeds up due to an affi

which also lowers the gcd

[warm olive]

ok

[shut rapids]

Why did the Venthyr kick the rogue out

Because they removed his sin

[halcyon grail]

...absolute worst joke of life. or the afterlife. ever.

[pliant fractal]

Why is Venthyr the best covenant?

Because they don't allow Sin

[balmy condor]

[sick scarab]

sbs got nerfed ?

[balmy condor]

hard

[sick scarab]

i see

it was a matter of time

[floral shoal]

Can't reactivate Flagellation after reaching 25 stacks (which takes forever as assa)...

[balmy condor]

yeh I think its bugged atm

[bright lintel]

thank god, it was driving me mad

[old hamlet]

goodmorning, is there a haste cap on assasination or just as much as u can get atm?

[balmy condor]

as much as you can get

and then next week

dunno

@fallow otter is making me sim prepatch bullshit

[old hamlet]

thats a guess for all of us i think

[balmy condor]

so I guess I'll do testing

[fallow otter]

You forget that we already did the maffs?

[balmy condor]

I'm bored enough to actually do it

[verbal mantle]

math

[fallow otter]

Oh so the C stands for CAN

I knew it

Haha

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

Ps. Ty qt

[balmy condor]

I got nothing else to do

lmao

[slim jay]

during my rotation should i hold toxic blade and make sure i wont need to reapply rupture/garrote during the buff or should i just press it and not worry about using a rupture over an envenom?

[balmy condor]

you should make sure that you don't rupture in a tb window

@fallow otter

HoD

[slim jay]

okay thank you

[balmy condor]

oh also It says CH, but I meant BBI and I was too lazy to change it

its gibbering/gorak/fleshbeast

np mr cowboycat

[fallow otter]

Bote yeh?

[balmy condor]

CLF/lucid/iris/breath

[fallow otter]

Ah ok

[balmy condor]

I could do bote

but you'd probably see similar things

hold on

[fallow otter]

Ta

[slim jay]

oh and since you are talking about bote. Would the cast sequence be bote > vendetta > TB or something else?

[balmy condor]

seriallos pls

vendetta tb then bote

[slim jay]

ty

[balmy condor]

np

[fallow otter]

Tb

Rip

[balmy condor]

pour one out for my boy TB

June 2017 - October 2020

[drifting cloud]

scuffed kb rip in peperronis

[slim jay]

isnt tb going base though?

[balmy condor]

yes, but weaker

[slim jay]

oh

[balmy condor]

and also not until level 56

so it just doesn't exist in prepatch

[fallow otter]

Subt instead of ma weird

[slim jay]

[fallow otter]

I thought that only happened real late

[balmy condor]

you thought what?

HoD with bote btw

still absolute trash

[fallow otter]

Haha yeh

[crimson palm]

sim 3x np vop major

[balmy condor]

as you wish

[fallow otter]

Why not 2322221 I mean

[balmy condor]

oh

cause its bad

last I checked at least

[fallow otter]

Interesting

[balmy condor]

I can add some ma ones in there

[fallow otter]

Ya plz, interested

[drifting cloud]

if hod is trash so is clockwork I assume?

[balmy condor]

probably

[vestal wren]

seems like we angle now

[balmy condor]

F

outlaw though

pls no

[fallow otter]

Fs in the chat

[drifting cloud]

4%?

[balmy condor]

get it out of my pure of soul channel fuu

[drifting cloud]

[balmy condor]

well stunk

I guess with DD not trash

but uh

[grim sedge]

No pls

Not this fucking kyrian

[fallow otter]

Bang on exactly the same? Hmm

[balmy condor]

margin of ~25

[grim sedge]

Anything, but not kyrian

[balmy condor]

now what was I doing

oh

VoP

yes

[fallow otter]

Ye

[balmy condor]

lmao I need to run more iterations

the fk is this

[outer condor]

no idea

[vestal wren]

single target with signature legendary + covenant:

[fallow otter]

O snap

[balmy condor]

wow

they're so close

[vestal wren]

dungeon slice:

[balmy condor]

necrolord dungeonslice though

yikes

so Kyrian > nightfae => venthyr => necro eh

[vestal wren]

well keep in mind, the use of necrolord/kyrian might change

so those are early sims

[balmy condor]

yeah

@crimson palm @fallow otter VoP 3x NP with either 2x DD 1x TTK or 3x SS respectively

[grim sedge]

Is necro now bad in pvp?

[balmy condor]

who knows

pvp meta won't exist until a couple weeks in

night fae looking okay though I would think

idk

#pvp nerds know better

[fallow otter]

Looks like we can play quite a few builds

[balmy condor]

yeah

blizz actually did it

the mad lads

[fallow otter]

Haha yeh lol

Corruption literally impossible to balance, confirmed

[mint coral]

i think no one want to play as angel rogue 😄

necro best anyway

[tawny flicker]

Venthyr ftw

[mint coral]

for pve?

no

[jagged ibex]

Venthyr all the way 😛

[balmy condor]

there's definitely people that want to play kyrian

[warm drift]

Flagellation conduit isnt out yet right? cant find it

[balmy condor]

correct

[mint coral]

venthyr looks good as visual but need some dps improvements

[balmy condor]

they're all close

[warm drift]

there all pretty close

they are

[balmy condor]

if blizz touches them any more

they're gonna make it worse

[jagged ibex]

Yup it’s lookin a lot better than lock is lol

[warm drift]

put some decent conduit on it and its fine

[fallow otter]

Biggest surprise there is necro dungeon slice tbh

[balmy condor]

dot damage suck

you're not getting more instant casts than single target

[fallow otter]

Xbox sucky sucky

[balmy condor]

without fracture, you're just relying on dot damage to cleave

and the dot damage is low

[mint coral]

well wait a sec

[balmy condor]

so the cleave just isn't there

[mint coral]

sub gets more dmg and poisons now

what now?

[balmy condor]

idk

[mint coral]

assas are dead? 😄

[balmy condor]

sin has always been behind sub in beta

sin will be fine in raids

it struggles in m+ a bit

[jagged ibex]

Lol I don’t think it’s dead more like sub actually gets to see some play now 😛

[balmy condor]

but probably won't be unplayable tbh

[fallow otter]

Did we lose soothe from numbing or did we never have it and im drunk

[balmy condor]

we have the soothe

[fallow otter]

Ok good

Ill keep drinking

[balmy condor]

utility wise, numbing and shiv actually looks pretty good

but sin is just behind damage wise

[mint coral]

I cant decide which one to choose

pff

[balmy condor]

just kinda depends on the meta

and if we're simping for people with numbing and whatever

and maybe the single target bitches or whatever

all depends

might take sub for the single target, might take outlaw for the aoe, might take sin for the soothe

ideally you would see all 3 depending on situation

[fallow otter]

Im kinda praying for a pb buff to save the day

[balmy condor]

wouldn't hold my breath

[jagged ibex]

Tbh I love how rogue is looking rn it feels like I can pick whichever spec/cov I want and not feel shitty

[balmy condor]

also if you can't decide what to choose

play what you think is fun

:)

its a game after all

[mint coral]

if sub didnt get poisons ı would say assas but idk now.

for raid

[fallow otter]

That's the reason?

[knotty bear]

playin sin for mut sound

[fallow otter]

Lol

[balmy condor]

if you're not like world top 500

you don't need to worry about performance

all 3 specs will be playable

[fallow otter]

You mean ce?

[balmy condor]

well

you can get ce

[mint coral]

not for CE

[balmy condor]

so maybe world top 100

[mint coral]

yeah everything

[jagged ibex]

You can get CE with pretty much anything if you do mechanics, it’s HoF that you need to be meta for

[balmy condor]

like people worry so much about performing optimally and getting and extra 0.2% damage

and honestly that's a pretty toxic mindset just for yourself

like I would never play outlaw

because I don't like it

even if it is better

if you're forcing yourself to play something better even if you don't like it

[fallow otter]

We talking about getting CE faster, ie. Top 500 kills

[balmy condor]

that's not good

[mint coral]

yeah i dont like outlaw too

[balmy condor]

most people in here who are wondering what to play, don't play at the level where that 0.2% matters

so

it really is up to what makes you happy as a person

[warm drift]

even in top100 u dont have to play meta

[jagged ibex]

I mean how much does 101-500 really matter at the end of the day lol

[balmy condor]

it matters to the people who are in there

[warm drift]

well yeah

[grizzled trail]

I mean are you guys basing this off single target patchwerk? The specs but quite a lot different in terms of dps on proper fights

It might not be as close as you think

[balmy condor]

last boss is basically patchwerk

[fallow otter]

Well I'm racing for famed slayer so I care

[grizzled trail]

I’ve done zero raid testing so I’m just speculating

[balmy condor]

trying to rank specs across the entire tier for all fights

is even harder

and even weirder

[fallow otter]

I want 0.2%

[balmy condor]

so then it really really is whatever you prefer

[grizzled trail]

I think assa will be way to go in raids tbh. But I think I might try sub first tier

But as you say it’s hopefully pretty close

[balmy condor]

dunno bout sin tbh

I think there's an argument to make for zoldyck on prog

but that makes it weaker than sub

cause dashing is so strong

[warm drift]

i loved zoldyck in legion

[balmy condor]

and then you start mega feely-crafting

if that's worth it or not

and it might be

but it might not be

[grizzled trail]

Need to see new sims tho, as shadowstrike also just got buffed

[balmy condor]

I can do that

[warm drift]

probably not intended

[fallow otter]

Maybe it will be using dashing while you pushing through fight then switching to get the kill I think

[balmy condor]

are you able to get multiple legendaries

[fallow otter]

After fine tuning movement and tank movement

[balmy condor]

and just equip one?

idk how fast you can get 2

[fallow otter]

One a week afaik

[balmy condor]

hm

might be close then

yeah

depends how long sire stays alive

[fallow otter]

But maybe you want upgrade

Instead of a 2nd

O shit

[balmy condor]

sin and outlaw are basically neck and neck patchwerk

without legendaries

but I think outlaw's bte change isn't in

and sub is just miles ahead in sims cause of SS

[mint coral]

they will be choose sub between assas soon i believe. they cant go for same balance

[balmy condor]

?

why not

[eternal salmon]

I know it might be to soon,what are the thoughts for assa in m+? don't want to go otlw, but really want to get KSM s1 😉

[balmy condor]

if KSM is the goal, you can play whatever you want

[mint coral]

3 dmg spec classes 1 one them need to be OP always i believe. not two of them

[balmy condor]

sin is definitely looking more....niche

or you could just have all 3 be balanced

whats the problem with letting people play what they want

and letting each spec shine in different situations

that sounds pretty sweet to me

[loud light]

I think the only concern is just if they are really balanced in practice

as opposed to patchwerk simcraft

but hey, hopefully

[mint coral]

well if sub going for OP and someone plays outlaw all time. he cant except for good dps

[balmy condor]

yeah, and that's a shame isn't it

[mint coral]

not shame

its about choose

[balmy condor]

yeah

[mint coral]

if u want to play this game as RP

yeah do what u want

[balmy condor]

so you're saying

you want less choice

because there should be a spec that sucks

[eternal salmon]

if KSM is the goal, you can play whatever you want
@balmy condor not really, when otlw was preferred over assa, was not invited to groups even with rio 2K+. Sound strange, but only on s4 was no prob to get inv. I know, that lot of "pro" players here will tell - aaaah m15 is nothing, but the truth is, there are more obstacles that you might think

[balmy condor]

I pugged my way straight to +23's as sin in s4

[mint coral]

well welcome to blizzard its always same. some have to rise while some have to go down. thats the way

[eternal salmon]

I pugged my way straight to +23's as sin in s4
@balmy condor as said above, only S4 was without problems. like assa, was main for years, not really otlw fan

[mint coral]

if they all have same balance. ppl will play easiest spec always.

i hope assas will be OP because i dont want to wait for shadow dance all time

[balmy condor]

yeh idk

I haven't played outlaw seriously since it got reworked in legion

and I've gotten KSM every season pugging it np

its a little painful sometimes but it's not THAT bad

[grizzled jay]

I got KSM in season2 as Sin easily and went on to push until people wanted me to play outlaw specifically

If you have issues getting KSM, the problem is you not the spec

[balmy condor]

if they all have the same balance, people will play what they prefer

[mint coral]

imagine that. you wait for some CD all time for doing some real dps for a short time. and other wise you have stabilize dps and have some CD . which one you prefer? 😄

[bright lintel]

Praise the purpose, Kyrian is good now

[balmy condor]

?

what kind of argument is that

[hazy iron]

I'm undecided, I'm hoping I can keep playing sin without people hasseling me to swap

[grizzled jay]

Kyrian always gave me scary cult vibes from the very first few quests

[balmy condor]

burst vs consistency usually favors burst

[hazy iron]

but I'll play sub if I have to

[mint coral]

but I'll play sub if I have to
@hazy iron same

[hazy iron]

dumb thing is if one is super powerful going into nathria, and then gets nurfed into the ground come mythic

[mint coral]

well burst is okay but stabilize is more good i believe. dont want to wait for all time

[hazy iron]

all that prep work

yeah i agree

[warm drift]

all depends on encounter

[balmy condor]

yeah

you might prefer stable dps

but that's not quite how the game works a lot of the time

[hazy iron]

burst periods inbetween mechanics

[mint coral]

we will wait and see all our discussions is waste 😄

because we woke up and necro is gone kekw

[balmy condor]

necro is weaker

but its not gone

[mint coral]

weaker=gone

same

[outer lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-surprise-bathroom-ogre-gif-11492547

[verbal mantle]

swamp here
dont disturb swamp ty

[balmy condor]

sin channel swamp channel

https://tenor.com/view/back-off-this-is-my-swamp-shrek-shreks-swamp-gif-12025865

[austere grove]

maybe an irrelevant question considering tuning isn't done yet. how much of a disadvantage is it playing sin instead of sub? are they situational or does sub excell mor eeverywhere?

[balmy condor]

they're both fine

we don't quite know yet how it'll end up in raids

sin has some niche in m+ but is behind in damage

I'd say atm sub is probably the perferred

[austere grove]

i much prefer playing sin, im just hoping it doesnt get overlooked because sub is fotm

[balmy condor]

yeah

it'll be fine in raids for sure

m+ is the place where there's some concerns to be had

but we just need to wait and see for now

[austere grove]

thats mostly what i do, whatre the concerns? i assumed multidotting would be strong in m+ with the target cap.

[balmy condor]

no SS

garrote damage is low

[limber lion]

Well tbh even if there was 20 targets and we could spread poisons/bleeds on 20 targets, you still wouldn't want to do that.

Doesn't give that much of an edge honestly, compared to stuff like Blade Flurry and 5 Shadow Vaults in a row

I'm so glad they actually managed to tune the covenants so close to one another. Just wondering if they based the tuning off of legendaries that are to be played with the covenants or just by themselves?

As in, is Sepsis going to be awful without Master Assa?

[balmy condor]

no

[sick scarab]

so.. kyrian, night fae .. good 🙂

[eternal salmon]

for know, would m+ work with night fae?

[balmy condor]

yeah

from earlier

[eternal salmon]

o.O looking good. shame that benthyr is not no1. liked that mog

[sick scarab]

nice nice nice

[frigid kestrel]

This is before taking a deep dive into Soulbinds, ye?

[sick scarab]

so night fae i am cooming :9

[balmy condor]

yes

this is not including soulbinds

[frigid kestrel]

That’s what I thought

[balmy condor]

fuu said he would take a closer look at soulbind combinations later

so stay tuned for that ;)

[frigid kestrel]

Back to lurking it is

[sick scarab]

we have to use flagellation on fuu to keep him working more LOL

[balmy condor]

is there something specific you want checked?

I can run sims as well

fuu's got the high level stuff mostly

[sick scarab]

ah oko

[frigid kestrel]

Wanted to see what was best pathing for Mythic + in Kyrian soulbinds and get a feel for it in beta.

[balmy condor]

for kyrian?

ye I can take a look

[frigid kestrel]

Your legit the best

Thanks

[balmy condor]

I just try my best to help out

[regal cloud]

[tall hawk]

Maybe since necro got nerfed and no one uses it they will revert :).

[subtle drift]

All covenant abilitys gone in 8.1 everyone can play what they want venthyr then.

[floral shoal]

TBH nerfing was to be expected. Now I wonder if bonespike will still be best in m+ for free combo points, or if I want a second vanish to do new opener/stun some dude...

[austere grove]

if SS was still around, a second vansish would be nuts

[sick scarab]

night fae !!! now they just have to remake the leather set LOL

[austere grove]

im never playing nightfae

[sick scarab]

!!

[fallow otter]

we gonna have a lot of mobility, get hyped boys

batteries not included

[balmy condor]

oh @frigid kestrel, is that with lethal/katar/echo conduits

or would you prefer something more general purpose like maim in place of katar

or should I just sim them both

I think I'll just sim both

[sick scarab]

sim both :=

😛

[frigid kestrel]

I love how self conversation went before I could even open my phone and answer.

[balmy condor]

its 3am im hyper

sorry

oh but we won't have the whole tree for a while hm

[fallow otter]

we gonna look like trees in SL

[balmy condor]

I'll sim whole tree with rank 7 conduits maybe

will be fine tm

gonna be a chonky sim though

oh well

[tired apex]

I'm really surprised and disapointed, everyone was saying regardless of numbers Kyrian ability is unfun to use, badly designed and overall trash, now that it's supposedly top dps in sims the best way would be to go Kyrian even tho the previous arguments are still valid ...

[balmy condor]

not everyone was saying that

its janky for sure

[sick scarab]

if blizz make all balanced then gg we are all happy

[balmy condor]

but its still interesting

[fallow otter]

am i the only one thats against kyrian purely coz of the little guy giving you something that goes in your fuckin bags - im a slave the maths tho so ill do what im told

[sick scarab]

i think that more difficult more reward

so.. easy stuff like bonespike..

[tired apex]

I'm not questioning that

[jaunty arrow]

Imagine playing kyrian

[fallow otter]

@tired apex i found it fun, it just didnt even get close to competing before

i personally like the minigame

[balmy condor]

@jaunty arrow why would I need to imagine

[tired apex]

do you feel we have enough time during bastion leveling to test the feel of echoeing reprimand ?

like getting a feel to see if you like having to work with it or not

[balmy condor]

probably yeah

you'll very quickly get a feel for it

[jaunty arrow]

Dunno i dont like that ability

Feels wierd for assa

[balmy condor]

and that's fine

[tired apex]

I don't either but at least if have have some time to test it I can make an actual informed choice

[balmy condor]

the others aren't far behind

so you can play what you enjoy

which imo, is pretty sick

[floral shoal]

With Kyrian you'll end up pressing it on cooldown and having a weak aura that lights up a christmas tree when having the right amount of combo points. Probably boring af if I am not missing some decision making here.

[balmy condor]

and with venthyr you would hit it on cd, and with bone spike you would hit it on cd, and with night fae you would hit it on cd

whats the point here

[tired apex]

I assume you'd make choices to build the right amount of cp so it could be more interesting than that

[floral shoal]

Bonespike I have to choose a target and decide if combos overcap, no?

[balmy condor]

any mechanic in the game can be summed up as "press on cooldown and have a wa that lights up like a christmas tree when X"

[jaunty arrow]

Yep its interesting but for assa really dunno, maybe it will feel good in the end

[balmy condor]

well bone spike single target, you just mash the button

you have to worry more about cp with kyrian than you do bone spike tbh

[jaunty arrow]

Thats the point kinda

[fallow otter]

im worried that nightfae gonna shoehorn us to MA

[balmy condor]

it probably won't

[fallow otter]

thats really my only worry

"worry"

[sick scarab]

nightfae wiht MA legendary and gg

[fallow otter]

yeh hopefully it doesnt just probs my only thought

i mean... even the talen

talent

[sick scarab]

only me see nightfae best one ? 😛

[frigid kestrel]

Kyrian is gonna be a pain in the ass

i mean..... until i get a juicy WA that it

cause .... WA's right?

[jaunty arrow]

Kyrian is pain but rewarding i guess

[balmy condor]

@sick scarab kyrian is pulling higher than nightfae with ma single target according to sims

how that will end up

or if they're 100% accurate

has yet to be seen

[floral shoal]

I am capping out at heroic raiding and +20 so I can play what I want anyway. My prot pala will be Kyrian so my rogue never.

[frigid kestrel]

i mean, you can play whatever you want even if doing mythic prog. As long as your not going for Top 100

that is, unless your memeing

[sick scarab]

@balmy condor i have faith in nature !! 😛

[floral shoal]

I'd guess even in top 1000 raiding peer pressure would be big. Noone give a shit in my heroic guild 🙂

[drifting cloud]

please dont make it a discussion at what arbitrary point the covenant will matter ty

[jaunty arrow]

It will

Minmax

[balmy condor]

we have 3 covenants basically within margin atm

[tired apex]

even without peer pressure, doesnt feel good to to knowingly choose something that will deal less damage, hopefully all rogues choices are close so that's good

[frigid kestrel]

they all seem pretty close atm, only time will tell is that gets better or worse

[balmy condor]

pins remain accurate for m+ soulbinds

[jaunty arrow]

Its good that they are close, if u want min max u pick best sim one if not u will end with good one too

[fallow otter]

im hoping for fatty venth conduit

[balmy condor]

margin of ~14dps

@vestal wren

[fallen bay]

How does feel venthyr compare to necro?

[balmy condor]

venthyr has the better animation imo

but bone spike feels better to press

whatever you prefer

[frigid kestrel]

So odd

[balmy condor]

oh should mention, the kleia tree with only 2 conduits (like kleia LP/Katar), is consistent with the tree in the pins, the 3 conduit kleia sims go to the left to pick up the potency conduit instead of the right

[frigid kestrel]

Maim > Katar

[fallen bay]

And dmg wise?

[radiant sorrel]

I'm over here leaning towards Venthyr simply because the cloaks look nice color wise with the mog I plan on rocking 😛 lol

[balmy condor]

damage wise venthyr is slightly better

very slightly

well its dslice

so you got boss, aoe, then cleave

[frigid kestrel]

slightly Better for M+?

[balmy condor]

its not straight aoe

the more aoe focused your dungeon, the more katar would win out

[frigid kestrel]

ye makes sense

[balmy condor]

katar also does more with higher levels on the conduit

since its directly related to poison damage, which scales from lethal poisons as well

but ye

pelagos still pelagod

[final saffron]

too many changes

[balmy condor]

Tldr ain’t that bad

[vestal wren]

@balmy condor is that dungeon slice?

[balmy condor]

Yes sir

[vestal wren]

i did ran some soulbind sims i think necro def. need a update, need to see if anything else need a change

but will first re-evaluate shadow vault

[balmy condor]

Ye I’m crawling into bed

All you

[vestal wren]

Embody the Construct looks a bit busted, sleep well

[balmy condor]

I expect everything simmed by tomorrow morning

[sick scarab]

😛

[vestal wren]

i need to check if i missed a commit and its oversimming

[fading wigeon]

It's morning already here. So is it done yet?

:p

[vestal wren]

well sleep good

[final saffron]

ye you should already have done that @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[quaint sequoia]

so kyrian best at the moment?

[balmy condor]

Very slightly, yes

[quaint sequoia]

in ST right?

how does it look in m+?

[balmy condor]

Slightly behind night fae

[quaint sequoia]

lol I got a second beta access xD

[frigid kestrel]

is their a working WA for Echoing Reprimand yall got right now? if not i will try and make my own

[balmy condor]

Didn’t see any on wago

But it would be nice to have beta eh

[frigid kestrel]

god they did a scrub on everyones toons in beta, time to make a new one....... again

[quaint sequoia]

does this mean I can multibox beta? xD

[royal lantern]

meanwhile guy cries in a corner lmao

[balmy condor]

So that’s where all my beta invites went

I’m crying too man

[royal lantern]

[verbal mantle]

scath

[vestal wren]

[hazy iron]

Haha same

[frigid kestrel]

Stupid question

is there a specific ability i should be focusing my 7 CB ER on?

O just whatever is next in rotation?

IM guessing a 7 CP Rupture is where its at

[tired apex]

maybe envenom during shiv

[eternal salmon]

sice SS is no longer best for opener, how would m+ opener might look like? (including ER or sepsis?)

[balmy condor]

@frigid kestrel envenoms and ruptures are both pretty good, envenoms in shiv are probably bis but that’s all APL testing, might start fiddling with that tomorrow tbh

[frigid kestrel]

feels like a chore doing my rotation around these RNG *Super Points

[balmy condor]

@eternal salmon most likely 3x gar, fok rupture, er, fok fok finish, sepsis, 3x gar when it runs out

Something along those lines

[eternal salmon]

thank y 🙂

[fading wigeon]

Does sepsis vanish activate MA?

[vestal wren]

yes

sepsis is a regular vanish cast

[fading wigeon]

Wow nice thank you

[reef elbow]

What made Kyrian become the beat option for assa and outlaw atm?

What did they change?

[delicate bone]

more like, nerf to everything else tbh

[royal lantern]

numbers

[delicate bone]

i expect stuff to keep changing as they said in the blue post, so just keep an eye on it and test the other covenants like they want you to

[reef elbow]

Ok 👍

[balmy condor]

more like, nerf to everything else tbh

They nerfed bone spike and buffed kyrian super hard

[patent topaz]

nothing will make me play kyrian

[balmy condor]

Nerf to everything btw

Flag and sepsis completely untouched this patch

[delicate bone]

it is what it is, bud

[royal lantern]

cant do too many rogue changes in 1 patch

or the multiverse collapses

[balmy condor]

Bone spike the only covenant to get nerfed

Everything nerfed

Very cool

[delicate bone]

everything was indeed 🙂

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

How is our aoe looking atm, any changes?

[balmy condor]

Do you troll on purpose

[delicate bone]

no, but many things other than covenant have been touched in the recent builds

so many

maybe*

instead of jumping down people throats

you read

and chill out a bit 🙂

[balmy condor]

Then maybe don’t make claims like everything got nerfed when it’s inaccurate and misleading

And I wouldn’t feel the urge to correct you

[delicate bone]

incorrect

you assumed i meant all covenants

which i didnt say that

[balmy condor]

“Everything” is indeed a very broad term, yes

[delicate bone]

indeed it is

but im not going to type out an entire wowhead post listing every little aspect that has been changed in the last few beta builds

not sure why you feel the need to freak out though, its okay man

[balmy condor]

Nor do I expect you to

[tired apex]

lmao what

you're the one freaking out saying everything was nerfed

[balmy condor]

Saying everything got nerfed is just misleading

And I wanted to set the record straight

[delicate bone]

lmfao

idk when you becamse the keeper of assassination, but its become pretty cringe

[fading wigeon]

And will create panic with new rogues coming into the channel. It's bad information sky

[delicate bone]

its not though, people taking anything in the beta as the go to for launch, is bad information

i literally said for people to spend time testing out the other abilities, now that necro is in line

since thats waht blizz said in the blue post because things will be buffed again/changed

[balmy condor]

Yes, and no one has a problem with you suggesting people test abilities

That’s what beta is for

[delicate bone]

oh perfect

thank you for the permission

i appologize

[balmy condor]

Permission?

You’re your own person in a public forum, idk why you think I hold any sway over what you do

[delicate bone]

exactly

[lunar whale]

So did kyrian get a decent buff or are they still ass compared to venth and night far

[balmy condor]

Kyrian got buffed

[delicate bone]

kyrian is on top in this current build

[frigid kestrel]

been a very long time since i seen toxic in here. TBF with the HYPE that rogues have been getting lately. Phrases like "everything got nerfed" do need to be checked. Even if what was followed was productive information. Not everyone knows that beta doesn't %100 translate to launch.

[tropic ocean]

no necrolord?

😢

[lunar whale]

I still don’t understand the venth ability to was broken when I was messing with it the other day

[balmy condor]

The venthyr ability is bugged for some people I heard

Can’t recast

[grand elbow]

been a very long time since i seen toxic in here. TBF with the HYPE that rogues have been getting lately. Phrases like "everything got nerfed" do need to be checked. Even if what was followed was productive information. Not everyone knows that beta doesn't %100 translate to launch.
@frigid kestrel the only toxic thing in this thread must be a toxic blade

[lunar whale]

That’s the issue I had

[balmy condor]

Yeah, that’s happening to a lot of people

Probably will get hotfixed soon I would hope

[lunar whale]

And I saw necro was bugged where it was cast once and it would just sit there an repeatedly cast and would one shot bosses in m+

[balmy condor]

That was an old bug with fracture where it would fracture off of summoned mobs that then died

That got fixed, and then this build, fracture got removed entirely

So that should be gone for good

[grizzled trail]

Kyrian being first in the new pin makes me sick (yes I know they are super close don’t jump on me)

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[grizzled trail]

Can we just pretend kyrian is still bottom on sims

[lunar whale]

Please just don’t fuck sin to bad lmao because I’m not a fan of how sub plays

[grizzled trail]

Sin is always viable I wouldn’t worry 🙂

[quaint sequoia]

same really hoping sin ends on top so I dont have to play sub

[balmy condor]

Sin will be fine

[grizzled trail]

Goin back to pooling energy tho yikes

[lunar whale]

I’m fine with it not being top I just hope it’s not the case that if I’m not playing sub I’m throwing

[grand elbow]

things will be tweaked more than 1 times before SL so everything can be changed)

[vestal wren]

@balmy condor i thought you wanted to go to sleep

[balmy condor]

Yeah but then I couldn’t sleep and people woke up and DM’d me and now it’s 5:30 and here we are

[frigid kestrel]

30 minutes and you wil be good for another 24 hours

[vestal wren]

did you play sin on beta a bit?

[crimson palm]

fuu is the sin apl optimized for kyrian's minigame

[balmy condor]

Beta, is that a new legendary

And no it’s not

Most likely at least

[crimson palm]

i.e. foking for 1 cp

[vestal wren]

sin apl still is optimized for the old kyrian ability

[lunar whale]

I’ve played a bit of sin on beta but I have no fucking clue what I’m doing Haven’t played rogue since cata and all I did on him was pvp lmao

[balmy condor]

Just paraphrase the legendary koji quote

“Turns out sin really can just hit random buttons half the time”

[vestal wren]

i just ask because i wanted to know what are potentially issues of assassination on beta
(baseline gameplay/talent wise, ignoring tuning/conduits/etc)

[balmy condor]

I don’t have beta

[vestal wren]

oh

[lunar whale]

Neither do I but I still play beta

[balmy condor]

[lunar whale]

I got a friend who has it and got on beta for 3 seconds to look at BE customization than hasn’t been on since so I just play on his

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t say that too loud mr account sharing

:P

[lunar whale]

Shhh

[tired apex]

he meant his imaginary friend its still the same physical person so no problem

[lunar whale]

Exactly

[delicate bone]

they live together

he meant "friend"

[lunar whale]

See these guys get me

[tropic ocean]

just marry and you're fine

can share accounts within family

[grizzled jay]

@vestal wren I've been playing only Sin for a while

[lunar whale]

So I was going back over the nerfs/buffs if sub is so broken why do they keep buffing it

[grizzled jay]

Balancing issues to me are lack of strong aoe talents, Energy issues if you don't go Blindside and Vigor, and Shiv not feeling like an impactful button press.

[delicate bone]

the nerfed its vault @lunar whale

[grand elbow]

crimson tempest base line will be so good

or poison bomb, to pick CT for aoe if needed

[lunar whale]

Oh I missed that

[frigid kestrel]

ok this thing slaps..... or errr... at least if im doing everything right it does

[foggy flint]

Kyrian probably will be further tuned, but at least it isn't still considered 'Trash' to the point nobody was even considering it as a covenant choice

[grim jay]

the pve trinkets are straight busted

many if not all

I dont even know what would make the kyrian ability more convenient to use. maybe change the cp's you need to hit

iirc its like 2-4 where the charged one is right?

[final saffron]

Seeing that chart makes me really sad that a poison/bleed class has melee attacks 5%-12% higher than anything else