assassination

[dark crag]

Are there sims yet for that?

[balmy condor]

I thought you might ask

give me 5 minutes

[low girder]

lol

[balmy condor]

I'm currently purifying all of mata's gear

lmao

[low girder]

lmao

you like my full set of crit gear

without sockets

the MOST half-assed

[balmy condor]

I like how you still haven't managed strife rank 3

[pliant fractal]

[low girder]

i have 5 parts

never bothered

[balmy condor]

at least you farmed bote

lmao

[low girder]

i had to for za'qul

we had the triple rogue delirium group

was great

[balmy condor]

aight lets see how good whispyr knows his talents row from memory

we have to test blindside probably

alacrity

and that's it ye?

[low girder]

i think?

[final saffron]

for exsang sim prepatch or what?

[low girder]

CT is dead, MP/VR are memes

can't think of anything else

[balmy condor]

ye I'm simming prepatch talents

cause its almost 4am

and I'm a clown

[low girder]

[final saffron]

MP vs EP?

[balmy condor]

mp sucks

[low girder]

MP won't win with current gear

[balmy condor]

but I'll toss it in

[final saffron]

alright

[balmy condor]

just for the meme

[final saffron]

I mean MP with the new talent, but you won't have it since the sim is for 50 I guess

[low girder]

can't imagine vigor would win either

unless we're not exsang

[final saffron]

just start it off simple Whispyr haha :d

[balmy condor]

with memory we're still like 58 apm

last I checked

[low girder]

still gcd locked lmao

[balmy condor]

oh wait

I copied the apl from live

on accident

fuck

[low girder]

rip

[balmy condor]

sigh

an extra step I guess

okay, so if the gear doesn't auto-scale

[shrewd night]

was about to fucking say

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna throw a fit

[final saffron]

feel like we're using you as a sim slave haha

[shrewd night]

no way 58 is legit lmao

[balmy condor]

you didn't know I'm a sim slave?

no, 58 is definitely legit

for prepatch

[shrewd night]

you legit saying

that with 50% less haste

[final saffron]

I mean it seems logical doesn't it?

[shrewd night]

we still cap?

[balmy condor]

eh, this one is 55.4

[inner sonnet]

can someone fill in the scrub for the benefit of understanding this conversation VP = ? MP = ?

[balmy condor]

but I argue close enough

VR is venom rush

MP is master poisoner

[inner sonnet]

read it as VP mb

[final saffron]

how is that a VS tho? they are on different talents rows

[balmy condor]

55.4

that's not even blindside giving free gcds

[low girder]

more dps than first raid tier geared 60s pog

[balmy condor]

blindside

59.9 apm

[low girder]

lmao

[shrewd night]

Seems kinda weird SS is chosen tbh

[final saffron]

woooo! fuck blindside

[balmy condor]

you love to see it

well

I chose SS

because that's what mata's wearing

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

also there's no way the heart is 246

and I'm too lazy to scale it

so

thumb sized grain of salt

but uh

exsang slightly behind

[shrewd night]

We're back at what, bod levels when corruption is gone?

[balmy condor]

TECHNICALLY WITHIN MARGIN

[shrewd night]

jk

ep

lemme check something real quick

[balmy condor]

well

we're at ep levels

with higher ilvl

and full sockets

which actually help quite a bit

[low girder]

no tb no shiv no exsang

no CT

[balmy condor]

no bs either

kek

[low girder]

mut spam zzz

[balmy condor]

optimal is ep alac poison bomb

hate to see it

but look on the bright side

you get to cast slice and dice

[low girder]

true

it goes where CT is

extra button

[balmy condor]

and ambush

[low girder]

so dumb question

if we're subt would we do that?

actually wait SS exists

JK

[balmy condor]

I think its bedtime mata

[pliant fractal]

Couldn't you just macro ambush to mutilate

[balmy condor]

nah

[low girder]

nah they killed that

[balmy condor]

that macro functionality don't exist

for exploit reasons like you just suggested

[final saffron]

also before they killed it, it still wouldn't work since you only wanna use it when you have the BS proc

[balmy condor]

well it would've worked

[low girder]

i think it did exist when hunters had a uh, one button rotation macro

but that was a long time ago

[balmy condor]

cause you wouldn't be able to cast ambush otherwise

outside of a BS proc

so it would've been fine

[final saffron]

oh, nvm then didn't think of that

[pliant fractal]

Where do I put all these fun new buttons

[balmy condor]

on your keyboard

[shrewd night]

[final saffron]

that's my question too Kiri

[shrewd night]

hold up lemme screenie this

[pliant fractal]

I play with a bop it

[low girder]

DH main pog

[balmy condor]

koffing's taking screenshots

is my hair okay?

[final saffron]

DH's have like 10 keybinds?

[pliant fractal]

DH have less buttons than gaming mice

[balmy condor]

true

[balmy condor]

stonks

[shrewd night]

Thats the difference we are looking at, kinda

In terms of energygain

Still finding it hard to believe its as much as 55, damn

[final saffron]

😭

[balmy condor]

you can see the NP spikes lmao

[low girder]

how much haste is 1%?

[balmy condor]

uh

idk prepatch numbers

[low girder]

no no, current

[balmy condor]

oh

72 me thinks

let me double check

before I talk out of my ass

[low girder]

so vs EP i still have double the haste%

in prepatch

if that math is correct

i have 1251 haste in this november log

[pliant fractal]

Stat squish

[shrewd night]

Remember they are nuking gems and haste from gear, your current rating doesnt come close to prepatch values

[low girder]

i know, i'm saying on ptr

i have 34%

[balmy condor]

68

mb

close

[pliant fractal]

Diminishing stat returns too

[balmy condor]

dr is on prepatch as well

the sims take that into account as well

[shrewd night]

[low girder]

yeah, so in this EP log i had 18.4% haste, on prepatch ptr i have 34%

[shrewd night]

34% on ptr

[low girder]

it's a good amount

[shrewd night]

Oh wait

nvm

[low girder]

and i have a few crit gems

on ptr

[shrewd night]

Your stats are getting squished once you level up

ptr dont mean shit

[low girder]

ye

[balmy condor]

(I swapped those out for haste gems and you're at closer to 40% btw)

[low girder]

those sims are prepatch though

oh lol

[balmy condor]

ye those sims are ptr sims

[shrewd night]

I might just swap everything to crit and coast by as sub during prepatch

[low girder]

obv at 60 it'll be slow again

just like old times

well

"slow"

we're still at like 42 apm or something

[shrewd night]

Ye

Thats more what I was expecting

Was having an existential crisis when the numbers in the high fifties were appearing

[balmy condor]

the preraid at level 60 is 40.5 apm

[low girder]

this log is behemoth so APM is

[balmy condor]

with blindside and vigor and alac

[shrewd night]

hol up

its 40 with BLINDSIDE?

[balmy condor]

ye

[shrewd night]

So youre looking at like..

35?

[balmy condor]

not counting covenant

35?

what

[crimson palm]

u mean 34 apm

[shut garnet]

is that accounting for mutilate double counting on wcl apm?

[shrewd night]

Blindside gives free gcds to fill for no cost, so the LEGIT builds will be around 35

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

I mean

I can sim without blindside

[low girder]

yeah on sivara in that log i'm at 45 apm

[balmy condor]

I'll sim mp instead

[shrewd night]

Entertain me

[balmy condor]

yep

35.7

kek

[low girder]

after removing the double muts

[shrewd night]

Professional apm guesser right here

[balmy condor]

geoguessr?

nah nah nah

apmguessr

[low girder]

simdps guesser

[balmy condor]

its a fun game to play when I do sims on stream tbh

[shrewd night]

Streaming sims

[balmy condor]

gotta make a lil 5 minute sim break

[pliant fractal]

Sims 4?

[balmy condor]

when you're doing nothing but poe for 7 hours

[shrewd night]

"hey bois ima load this sim up so you can watch it progress while I go take a dump"

[balmy condor]

imagine not having premium

and sims taking more than 1 min

best feeling in the world

SIXTY FOUR DEDICATED CPU CORES

MORE POWER

[shut garnet]

sim(p)spyr

[balmy condor]

I am a man of many spyr's

[vestal wren]

My laptop has 4 threads 🐧

I guess I'm not going to run spicy 20m combination sims

[balmy condor]

My desktop has 16

But I have a server in my garage with idk how many

[sick scarab]

those sims are wiht bone spike ?

[balmy condor]

Which sims

There are many sims

[sick scarab]

the one 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1

[balmy condor]

That’s all prepatch and live sims

No covenants there

[sick scarab]

ah ok

k good

tnx 🙂

[balmy condor]

I did some research on first row of sin in beta if you scroll up a little in #tc-research

Should that interest you

[sick scarab]

tnx 🙂

[vestal wren]

patchwork

[strange python]

Bring down bonespike a notch and we gucci

Ty

[vestal wren]

also buff kyrian

[inner sonnet]

isn't it fix kyrian? i thought the interaction was busted

[eternal mirage]

Imagine wow could run on more then 1 core @balmy condor would be awesome

[surreal solar]

*rework kyrian entirely

give us some holy pimp slap or something, ER succcccks

[rare coral]

if they wanna stick with the whole "empowering a finisher"

they could just make it make your next max cp finisher x amount stronger or something

[strange python]

wow runs on 1 core ? @eternal mirage

[surreal solar]

the number crunchers already crunched it scaling up to 25cp, even then it still sucks @rare coral

[rare coral]

I'm saying with a rework lmao

[eternal mirage]

was until 8.1 hit @strange python

[strange python]

How many do now?

[eternal mirage]

they support multithreading so the game supports as many as you have

if we can trust blizzard on this one.

[tender folio]

Since from prepatch we gonna prioritize haste, will there be some cap on it ?

[strange python]

Is Haste or Crit better for raiding right now?

[tender folio]

Haste

[balmy condor]

Pretty sure it supports up to 2 now

Not unlimited

[warm star]

is it haste because of Bonespike or Haste because it s better on all ?

[jolly comet]

haste is better overall

[warm star]

and on second stat, are we more trending crit or mastery?

[crimson palm]

34% crit

then w/e

[plain thistle]

[onyx bane]

At what % of haste is Exsang better that TB?

[delicate bone]

you have to sim it, depends

[crimson palm]

@onyx bane at 32.69

[onyx bane]

Ty

[shrewd night]

Unless its super obvious, no trolling in spec channels.

[jagged ibex]

So how does flagellation feel?

[harsh sphinx]

[warm star]

https://tenor.com/view/shin-jimin-jimin-whip-whiplash-whipping-gif-12463359

is it still bugged?

[halcyon grail]

Yes.

And still no conduits afaik?

[delicate bone]

i mean, we likely wont end up using the conduit for it anyways

we dont really use any covenant conduits as it is

[fleet whale]

we'll have to see what it does. It's not like assassin has many great st conduits to begin with

[drowsy estuary]

hey, do u think who in shadowlands our aoe still be spam knifes+EP? with crit

[crisp sluice]

probably not because no more crit corruption bringing it to insane levels

[drowsy estuary]

so back to snapshotting?

spam bleeds and venoms to all targets?

[shy dust]

Well echoing blades isn’t in shadowlands

[fleet whale]

were still gonna use FoK a lot in dungeons

with poison katar

it will likely be triple garrote, throw in a rupture or two, and then go into fok/envenom

[balmy condor]

^

[thin cargo]

Isn't there a way to spread bleeds with shiv? Maybe hallucinating

[surreal solar]

legendary, and there's significantly better options

it also supposedly bugged

[balmy condor]

The shiv legendary is bugged

And also probably not very good

[thin cargo]

That's a bummer

[fleet whale]

the shiv legendary is pretty much a meme

along with well placed steel

[balmy condor]

Which sims higher than sf with enough conduit ranks

Cause sf is trash

[harsh sphinx]

is exsang dead

[balmy condor]

Not in prepatch

It’s usable in prepatch

In shadowlands, yes

If you scroll up I did some cursed prepatch sims

Take them with a grain of salt, the scaling on gear isn’t quite what it should be, so it’s a little wonky

[harsh sphinx]

thx

[fleet whale]

what is sf

[balmy condor]

Sudden fractures

[pliant fractal]

2% shiv DPS gain

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

Are we gonna be ass in pre-patch? Should I start practicing sub now?

[balmy condor]

Both gonna be fine probably

But who knows and who cares

[strange python]

I care cuz I'm still trying to get my Nzoth mount dammit lol

I MUST SLAY THE BEAST UNTIL I CAN NO LONGER

[balmy condor]

Are we sure it’s still 100% drop in prepatch

[strange python]

They haven't said it isn't

It better be

[fleet whale]

it's an ugly mount though

well imo

Jaina mount is way cooler

[surreal solar]

Jaina and Nzoth get stabbed to 1% in prepatch

they said that weeks ago

[drifting cloud]

no they dont

[kindred cliff]

Pretty sure it's 100% to shadowlands launch

[charred mauve]

they said launch

[kindred cliff]

Still guaranteed in pre patch

[balmy condor]

that's what I was thinking as well

CE goes away but the mount stays at 100%

and then drops in sl

[pliant fractal]

So the big play is to become a prepatch abuser

Havoc, Warlock

Holy pall glimmer

[fleet whale]

just having essences and azerite alone will make everyone a pre-patch abuser

[pliant fractal]

Yes but who is the most abusive?

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

my step dad

[pliant fractal]

[dark crag]

Dark

[strange python]

dark into light \o/ fix classes

[clever marten]

Hey, i am new to assassination, does rupture not take benefits of the strenght bleeds from subterfuge? Is it only garrote?

[balmy condor]

only garrote

you can snapshot a rupture with nightstalker

but I wouldn't suggest it, nightstalker is pretty awful

[clever marten]

Thanks, and vendetta wont be increased in anyway if you pop it within subterfuge? I've checked around for WA's that tracks the strenght of the bleeds but could not find any, i guess people dont really need them

Thanks for answers @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

there's weakauars to show when garrotes/ruptures are snapshotted

like from subterfuge/nightstalker/exsang

but outside of that its pretty useless

vendetta applies dynamically

so you don't need to worry bout that

[clever marten]

So with subterfuge you basicly wanna open on ST's Garrote - Rupture - Garrote (Subter fades) vendetta and then reapply rupture with 5x cp.

[balmy condor]

yeah

you can see openers in the pins

there's guides that explain them

[clever marten]

Thanks

[final saffron]

[strange lichen]

I was overlooking some logs last night and maybe I’m misunderstanding something...so with garrote & rupture, do you ever let them tick off..like let empowered garrote or using ex on your rupture & garrote so they get their full duration..or should they always stay up?

[low girder]

empowered garrotes and exsang'd dots always fall off before refreshing

[verbal mantle]

never overwrite an empowered garrote

and let it fall off y

[strange lichen]

I thought so, I was running last night and this other rogue was beating me with lower ilvl..I just noticed his garrote and rupture damage was higher than mine, but not sure what was happening

[low girder]

ye, if you overwrite you just lose the empowerment or extra ticks from exsang

[verbal mantle]

he probably had more emp garrote uptime

depends on the situation

[strange lichen]

I’ll have to dig some more cause I was letting them get full duration

[verbal mantle]

you should check RH guides

openers and rotations are properly explained

[strange lichen]

What’s the @verbal mantle

[verbal mantle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange lichen]

That*

[low girder]

none of those have exsang do they

[verbal mantle]

mmh

[low girder]

or did that change

[strange lichen]

Yes

[icy ember]

sin is bad to play

in the prepatch

[strange lichen]

I’m not talking Pre-patch

[verbal mantle]

yeh but Duskmore is talking about rn i guess

even if it's over in few weeks

well "over"

[strange lichen]

And I follow the RH guide, yeah I’m sick of hearing about pre-patch when it changes all the time. Who cares till it’s final lol

[low girder]

oh wowhead's updated for prepatch now rip

[verbal mantle]

"final" is a curious word for Blizz

ah yeh idd Mata

sadge

but pre patch supposed to bring all changes tho

[low girder]

prepatch isn't gonna change really from now til release, we get maybe 1 more build

and it'll just be numbers

probably

[verbal mantle]

yeh we keep azerites

[inland jacinth]

hi guys, returning player here.. how bad is that 'thing from beyond' @ 46 corruption ?

[balmy condor]

not that bad

[verbal mantle]

not that bad

[balmy condor]

it hruts, but you just eat it and the healer deals with it

[verbal mantle]

you'll manage

[low girder]

solo content bad, if you have a healer it's fine

[verbal mantle]

yeh depends on context

[inland jacinth]

well i'd bring it into mythics hehe

[verbal mantle]

in raid it'll be fine

[balmy condor]

go for it

[inland jacinth]

thanks much

[verbal mantle]

Ilgy no dispell strat

[low girder]

you can blind them too. and don't forget your cloak on-use

[strange lichen]

Are the clockwork heart traits OP? Cause he was running 2

[verbal mantle]

huh

[low girder]

they're strong on short fights, but it's not a huge amount

[inland jacinth]

have somebody tested on SL what happens when all our haste goes awaylol

[low girder]

whispyr has sims somewhere based on bis gear

oh you mean on launch

jk

it'll go back to normal speed-ish, 35-40 apm

[balmy condor]

what do I have

[low girder]

nothing, i can't read

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

Mata no

[grave scroll]

ass getting nerfed prepatch? confirm/deny?

[balmy condor]

who knows

aside from the normal changes

we have no idea what tunings gonna end up being

and tuning in prepatch is already meaningless garbage

so your guess is just as good as anyone elses

[grizzled jay]

Assassination will do very bad dps in pre-patch but also who cares

[balmy condor]

that's simply not true

[fleet whale]

essences and azerite are broken af in pre-patch

so it really doesn't matter

[outer condor]

hi guys, is there a more in-depth faq apart from "best spec" "fun spec" and "rogue broken"?

[balmy condor]

not sure what you mean

[fleet whale]

fun spec is subjective

nothing about rogue in SL appears to be woefully broken

[balmy condor]

aside from of course my self confidence

[outer condor]

wasn't looking for an answer to those, the questions i mentioned were the ones covered on #rules-and-guides

also not sure i'm gonna be playing SL, just found out i never really cancelled my subscription and decided to play it out

[balmy condor]

well then idk what faq you're looking for

spec channels have pins on how to play the spec

and some preliminary shadow lands sims are found scattered around, and often in #tc-research

[outer condor]

spec channels have pins on how to play the spec
to begin with, as far as I know, assa is single target, outlaw is multi target, and sub seems to be a meme

is that somewhat accurate?

[balmy condor]

no

because those generalizations are way too broad to accurately reflect a spec

[pliant fractal]

They can all do Single and Multi target, they just do it differently

[balmy condor]

sub right now on live is weak, which is probably where you got the idea that its a meme

but its looking to be the strongest spec in shadowlands

and can do both aoe and single target

[pliant fractal]

Shadow Vault

[balmy condor]

sins aoe is locked behind a conduit mostly

outlaws single target is a little lacking but in no ways unplayable

[outer condor]

conduits are SL stuff right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[outer condor]

i need macro help

[balmy condor]

with?

[outer condor]

/cast Eviscerate
/cast [mod:shift, target=target] Rupture``` why isn't this working

pressing shift doesn't alter it to rupture, and i don't have anything binded with shift + key

[balmy condor]

seems fine to me

idk

are you trying it on ptr?

[outer condor]

no, live

[balmy condor]

well that's problematic then

cause sub doesn't have rupture on live

[drifting cloud]

and assa doesnt have evisc

[balmy condor]

yeah

[outer condor]

wdym

i'm playing assa and i have evisc

[balmy condor]

you have envenom

you don't have eviscerate

[outer condor]

i'm leveling

[balmy condor]

oh

yuck

idk

[outer condor]

it's the same, don't really care, just don't wanna waste keybinds

and for w/ever reason key modifiers don't work?

[balmy condor]

work fine from what I've heard

I don't use them cause I personally don't see the point

[outer condor]

saving up keybinds

[balmy condor]

if I'm making a mod macro like that, I just make a button with Q and a button with shift Q

but its the same thing

how are you saving keybinds that way

[outer condor]

cause it's both skills on a single bind

which would be 1

[drifting cloud]

its still 2 binds

[outer condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

yeah what

[meager arch]

I think he means action bar slots

[outer condor]

what they said

[balmy condor]

yeah I just make another action bar

[frank geyser]

you need to make them in one line

[outer condor]

yeah not a fan of taking up space, the more compact the better

[frank geyser]

as in /cast [mod:shift] Rupture;Eviscerate

[outer condor]

ooooooh

[frank geyser]

I think that's the right way to do it but I might have my syntax wrong, haven't used this one in years

[balmy condor]

I have all my bars hidden

my entire screen could be bars

I only really use mouseover/focus macros for tricks and blind

and that's really it

[outer condor]

I think that's the right way to do it but I might have my syntax wrong, haven't used this one in years
@frank geyser works great, thanks

[frank geyser]

happy to be of help 🙂

[outer condor]

my entire screen could be bars
sure, but why would you

[balmy condor]

because they're all hidden

it makes no difference if my screen has 50 bars or 2 bars

[outer condor]

i mean yeah ofc, but whenever you place a skill in any of those it's gonna take up space

[balmy condor]

invisible space

yes

[outer condor]

you said your bars were hidden, i thought you meant as the bar hud itself

your bind icons are hidden as well?

[balmy condor]

everything

my action bars, are completely hidden

no keybind letter, no icon, no border, no frame

its completely invisible

[outer condor]

point taken

[untold belfry]

Holy crap after playing unholy the past 4+ months play sin rogue feels so fucking fast damn

[balmy condor]

just wait till sl

[untold belfry]

Wha-

What's happening to assasin?

Still thinking I'm maining unholy tho

[balmy condor]

back to the roots baby

we're going back to 40apm

esketit

[untold belfry]

40apm = actions pepr min? Where are we rn?

[balmy condor]

59

we all run exped and can't spend our energy fast enough

with shadowlands and no haste

we're looking at 40apm with blindside

and 35 without

slow boi 2021

[grizzled jay]

Blindside

dead talent now

[balmy condor]

is it

is there a patch im missing

[grizzled jay]

no but i'm not gonna pick it without Slaughter I think

i think EP is better with Flagellation

[balmy condor]

well that's your decision

[grizzled jay]

yes

Blindside probably pretty good without Flagellation, though, just cause of how much energy you save over a fight length. But feelscraft I think EP with Flagellation will be dank.

[void sinew]

you guys think HOA and cape are gonna be used for first raid tier?

[balmy condor]

hoa will get replaced in heroic week

cape is gonna get replaced during leveling

[void sinew]

thank god

was worried due to amount of stats it gives people were saying would last till getting a neck in first tier

[balmy condor]

the neck isn't going to last very long but it'll be good up until release

for sure

[void sinew]

sounds good thanks friend

[final saffron]

my guess is that both those items will be heavily nerfed in ilvl, no way they gonna let them stay competetive until you ding 60

[balmy condor]

I'm expecting it to be level capped at some point

but they did heroic testing

with the neck

and people were running it in mythic testing as well

so atm, should plan for using it

[final saffron]

so you are saying I should do the chain quests to get cloak on my 4th character? D:

[balmy condor]

if you want to be optimal for the first 2 weeks of the expansion

go for it

[final saffron]

ugh.. the pain of doing all that yet again tho

[balmy condor]

or

you can deal with the slight loss

and not do it

[final saffron]

well that depends on how much better they will be, if they are still competetive for that long means they will be much better than everything else which ofc will be worth it

can't really trust blizzard do to the obvious changes they should do anymore

[delicate bone]

There’s no way I would put myself through another cloak at this point

[balmy condor]

you're replacing it during heroic raid

if you're sub 95 I think you're replacing in normal

[final saffron]

well fuck it, I'll just casually do it

[delicate bone]

Yea, I would stress super hard about it

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't

[final saffron]

@delicate bone I'm not gonna get it to max, just to the highest point I can before I have to farm visions everyday

[feral cedar]

my guild (world rank 2000) said i need to get the cloak or they kick me from guild

[balmy condor]

LMAO

[delicate bone]

Lol

[grizzled jay]

Lel

[delicate bone]

Find new guild?

[grizzled jay]

You should get kicked on purpose and find another

[balmy condor]

I've heard similar stories from other guilds

[delicate bone]

Like if you needed it for mythic prog, sure, but not heroic lmao

[balmy condor]

its kinda clownin out there tbh

yea its gone for mythic

the cloak especially

the neck is the big part

the cloak is gone after leveling from what I've seen

[delicate bone]

Kind of crazy to make it a requirement like that, but each guild does their own shit so I’ll

Idk*

[balmy condor]

nah, requiring cloak for shaowlands is just straight troll

[final saffron]

Mythic 10 weapons are stronk

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

my guild (world rank 2000) said i need to get the cloak or they kick me from guild
@feral cedar find a new guild

[balmy condor]

why is that 380 ilvl

[rare coral]

season 1

[balmy condor]

y i k e s

[verbal mantle]

Lol

[final saffron]

I got it during Uldir @balmy condor haha

[balmy condor]

disgusting

I wouldn't even bother vendoring it

just drag it out of your inventory and forget its existence

[final saffron]

I was pretty well geared at like 380+ when 395 was max I think

I GOT NO BETTER WEAPONS xD

[balmy condor]

run a m0

lmao

[verbal mantle]

Or a WQ

That gives you a weap ez pz

[final saffron]

will check after I've done some of the quetst, last time I checked it only gave me a sword for "Outlaw"

[balmy condor]

change your loot filter

[verbal mantle]

yes

[balmy condor]

or uh

wow calls it loot specialization don't they

too much poe

[final saffron]

does the reward change even tho it says sword?

[balmy condor]

idk if it'll change existing ones

but you shouldn't get swords unless you're outlaw loot specced

[final saffron]

that's weird because stuff like that has happened on several of my characters even tho I have the correct loot spec

[balmy condor]

I haven't done a world quest in a year

I wouldn't know

[verbal mantle]

Then hit some m0

Ilvl is 420 iirc?

Rn

Unsure tho

• youll loot some azerite gear

[balmy condor]

ye

if you're looking for gear

dungeon spam

and if you need azerite, raid

[final saffron]

I'm mostly looking to upgrade neck+cloak atm haha, not gonna gear to 460+ ilvl

even tho the quests are a bit rough with 400ilvl

[balmy condor]

ye

kinda undegeared

[verbal mantle]

I wouldn't bother with neck + cloak but knock yourself out mate

I'd look for as much ilvl as I could

Imo

[final saffron]

who wants to guess my haste %? xD

[balmy condor]

-69.42034%

[verbal mantle]

12%

[final saffron]

7%

[verbal mantle]

Yikes

[balmy condor]

that's how much I have in my m+ set

[final saffron]

think I maxxed out mastery + crit when running all those SS at the start for some reason

[graceful vale]

After spending an hour scrolling through memes, Navi pog openers and spec hating. I'm happy to have found a channel to call home 😂

[verbal mantle]

welcome to the swamp

[graceful vale]

[balmy condor]

[final saffron]

Happy now? @balmy condor @verbal mantle haha

[verbal mantle]

noice

[final saffron]

not gonna bother further with the cloak, but getting the neck to 80 seems worth it, and during prepatch we will get normal Nya'lotha raiding gear easily so not gonna waste time gearing

[surreal solar]

Cloak goes as high as 500 ilvl, might be worth it as a beefy leveling piece

[final saffron]

ye but that means farming visions everyday + actually doing the visions

[graceful vale]

Farm keys and pay for 0 mask boosts lol

Especially for the 0/4 page quests as youll only have the resistance to get 2 pages per vision with your gear. You'll either want to get all 4 in one run or 2 per run

4 toons with rank 15 and rogue was by far the easiest fucking time of my life

[final saffron]

all that shit just makes me wanna do it even less haha, I thought you only had to get 1 item per vision until you actually hit 500ilvl and that still seemed like too much work

[vast forum]

well you get 4 items but it's all in the same vision 😛

[graceful vale]

First 6 ranks are just kill thrall or alleria

[final saffron]

ye done those

[graceful vale]

You need to do the get 4 pages quest twice

So you can do it with 4 keys or 2 keys if you can get someone to boost

[final saffron]

probably just leave it at the current ilvl and focus my time on the neck, heard the neck is the piece that will last the longest unless they actually nerf them

[graceful vale]

It's a bit lame that elite exterm is down so far because you need it more for the early ranks and less for the higher ranks. Like once you get r12 with elite exterm you can full clear without needing to orb unless you eat bad shit like its sushi train

Grinding the neck to approx 85 wont be too much ap

[final saffron]

ye the neck is really fast if you actually put down the time

[graceful vale]

Power through the war campaign you get easy 10k for a couple hours of quests which are 0 iq with flying

[final saffron]

already done with the war campaign tho? or is there more after you do all the quests for the cloak?

[graceful vale]

You have the veteran of the 4th war title?

You arent done unless you do

[final saffron]

so I guess I'm done :d

[graceful vale]

True

[strange python]

hello guys! good noon

One question, does aany of you know which rogue covenant will we play? necrolord?

[crimson palm]

Aldor

[vast forum]

the one that ends up being the strongest on release

[icy ember]

scryers

[fading wigeon]

Hydraxian waterlord or get the hell out of here. You can douse stuff with your covenant ability

@strange python right now necro is the strongest. But we won't know until closer. It's in the pins.

[lethal ginkgo]

If centaur scales a bit better it could be a single target choice where as boneshard could be more aoe however as it stands necro is still stronger

Venthyr

[fading wigeon]

I liked the sound of centaur better

Lol

[lethal ginkgo]

Haha

[vague rock]

play anything except kyrian and you'll be fine

but considering it's only the start of the expansion and we have a whole 2+ years, kyrian will get buffed at some point so they're all fine

[surreal solar]

wait, Centaur's an option? really making me reconsider Lamia man

[iron valve]

why would you ever not go Lamia

https://giphy.com/gifs/ruby-sparks-10Iz2dQHKQgRmo

[surreal solar]

Of course, Lamia's are best, but you know, alts.... for reasons.... I have an alt set aside entirely for Driders

gotta activate the hidden buff by having one of each, or i'd go 10/10 Lamia

[lavish turret]

so from what I understand, we're still opening with Garrote and pretty much only using Ambush on proc?

[vale bobcat]

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

@lavish turret yes

[woeful glade]

Is there a Shadowlands Assa guide on RH that I'm missing?

Kinda like http://yeolde.ravenholdt.net/subtlety-rogue-guide/

Or for outlaw even

[balmy condor]

Hasn’t been updated yet

[modern schooner]

how much better is blindside than EP in ST?

[balmy condor]

than ep? quite a bit

hold on

take it with a grain of salt

if you scroll up in #tc-research you can see some discussion on it

[modern schooner]

@balmy condor thanks for that

wait for poisoner is better than bs?

[balmy condor]

with high conduit ranks yeah

[modern schooner]

wow unexpected but happy to see it

[balmy condor]

that trend will probably continue with gear

but t15 conduits are many months out most likely

so I wouldn't take it as gospel

[modern schooner]

so it is better exclusively with conduit 15?

also for NS, do you use Rupture or Garrote when stealth?

[balmy condor]

rupture

but NS is actually so bad its not even funny

[modern schooner]

oh I was looking at that chnnel and I thought I saw NS top

[balmy condor]

yeah

that was due to a bug

if you read the discussion after

the reason why I got NS to sim so high was because the sims were empowering the bleed portion of sbs

which was legit ~200 dps for free

but that's not how it works in game

NS doesn't buff the dot part

and we don't know if that's intended or bugged or what

NS also doesn't work with sepsis

and I have no idea how it works, if at all, with flag

[grizzled jay]

What would they need to do to make NS competitive you think?

[balmy condor]

I mean, just pumping the number hard enough will make it competitive obviously

[grizzled jay]

Wouldn't that just make it better than Subt though

I think it's bigger issue is that it and Subt do the same thing

(increase Garrote damage)

[balmy condor]

ye

well

no

because NS you're empowering ruptures

but its very similar

[grizzled jay]

Well only on Vanish not the opener

[balmy condor]

I personally am of the opinion that a lot of the sin talents are kinda fucked

[grizzled jay]

Yes Sin is a completely different playstyle than Outlaw or Sub yet shares talents with them

So talents either work for Sin but not those two, or the reverse

[quaint sequoia]

Still think SS should have been made into a leggo or rank2 of the spell

[fleet whale]

Sin talent tree one of the worst in the game

[grizzled jay]

Only one worse is probably MW

[strange python]

and no fixes on the horizon :p

[modern schooner]

it's hard letting go of the instant garrotes from subt

I guess in raids its less usefull

[versed pivot]

just a quick question. Is it worth stacking haste for better energy regen, or no

[balmy condor]

yes

haste is our best stat in both live and sl

[versed pivot]

awesome I appreciate it

[grizzled jay]

Haste always gonna be king for any DoT-based class unless an outside force (like Double Dose) pushes another secondary.

[strange python]

ah ok.. cant remember haste was king in legion :p

[dark crag]

That was before haste scaling bleeds

Rogue dots

[balmy condor]

yep

haste scales tick rates now

so its just auto ez

especially with venomous wounds being basically all of our energy regen

[strange python]

i know .. and now we have no choice, haste > fist

first

[dark crag]

Without that haste would be hot garbage

[balmy condor]

well in sl, haste is better

but its not actually that clear after a while

sin is fortunate enough to enjoy every stat

we don't have dead stats like other classes do

[modern schooner]

is the secondaries diminishing returns a new thing for SL?

[balmy condor]

yes

[modern schooner]

I see

does sin use poison bomb still?

[balmy condor]

yes

[modern schooner]

even in dungeons?

[balmy condor]

right now its crimson tempest

in shadowlands its either HB or CT

but PB can see some use

its a bit of a tossup

[modern schooner]

what are you leaning towards right now for sl?

[balmy condor]

dunno

[strange python]

sin feels doubled down with snd and premade gear xD sleepy joe spec :p also forced into scoundrel.

[balmy condor]

probably HB

[swift lodge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

100% not forced into scoundrel btw

scoundrel is awful in dungeons

[grizzled jay]

Zoldyck is better on fights like Sire imo where you need higher dps in execute phase than you do the first 70% of the fight

[balmy condor]

yuh

[grizzled jay]

Doing 20% more dps on Sire from 100-30% doesn't matter when the last 30% is a soft-enrage so doing 10% more dps there with Zoldyck is better

im rushing Zoldyck cause only the last boss of a tier really matters and its better for M+

So i'd rather have the legendary better for M+ and Sire than the other 9 fights in Nathria

[balmy condor]

I'm rushing zoldyck probably as well cause I care about m+ more than raids

but if sin is dead then idk

[grizzled jay]

We'll see Heroic week tuning hopefully

[strange python]

Trump 4 rogue

[quaint sequoia]

we dont know how we'll get zoldyck right?

[balmy condor]

correct

not listed yet

[drifting cosmos]

Zoldyck is the one when -30% you do more dmg?

[balmy condor]

yes

[modern schooner]

back in legion I begged rngesus for the zoldyck leggo but I got Sephuz's Secret so I moved on to dk in rage

[balmy condor]

sephuz was so good

[main blaze]

Eventually. At first it was awful

[balmy condor]

ye

[modern schooner]

yeah at the time it was the first iteration and it made me want to quit wow right there

[drifting cosmos]

What made us so good in late legion? Besides pb

[balmy condor]

mastery scaling out of control

[drifting cosmos]

230% ftw

[modern schooner]

yeah ironically sin ended up so good in legion but dk wasnt too bad after Nighthold

[drifting cosmos]

Hmm so basic spread poison and the work is done

[balmy condor]

legion sin rogue was all about poison bomb tbh

[drifting cosmos]

Yea true

[balmy condor]

like pb, phat envenoms, poison application

and that was the majority

[drifting cosmos]

Yea bleed is a thing only till the very end

[balmy condor]

rupture did some damage cause of that one thing

[modern schooner]

Exanguinate was so fun and broken pre nerf

[balmy condor]

blood of the assassin or whatever

[strange python]

bleed was legion start good, with boots and ma relics

[modern schooner]

@balmy condor has any testing/sims been done regarding legendaries for sin in sl?

[balmy condor]

yep

[drifting cosmos]

Too early for that?

[balmy condor]

that's why the pins have legendaries

[modern schooner]

oh yeah srry hadn't seen pins

[balmy condor]

a timeless classic :)

[glass vine]

Can we macro Ambush with mutilate for blindside procs

?

[balmy condor]

no

[glass vine]

weak

[balmy condor]

or else you could also put tb in place of mutilate

and now you're start a little rotation helper

and blizz don't like that

[glass vine]

you true

[shadow apex]

@glass vine best option is to stick it on a modded press

#showtooltip
/cast [stance] [mod,spec:1,talent:1/3] Ambush; Sinister Strike

SS automatically becomes Mutilate

[balmy condor]

ye that's just two buttons though

[shadow apex]

ya, that macro's more useful for sub cuz it automatically switches to shadowstrike during shadow dance

[glass vine]

tyty

[main blaze]

Oh nice

Thats an interesting macro

[grizzled jay]

the backstab/shadowstrike macro is bad for Sub cause of Stance lag, if you spam the button you'll Backstab instead of Shadowstrike

Also new Sephuz is pretty nuts for M+

[willow vine]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

not updated for sl yet btw

[willow vine]

Damn that’s what I was lookin for

Thanks

[balmy condor]

its very similar to right now

just ambush with a proc to replace mutilate, maintain snd

maximize uptime on envenom

[grizzled jay]

and Flagellation / Bone Spike shenanigans.

(also potentially ER if they update it)

[outer condor]

any of you know if it's possible to macro the stance bar on bartender?

[balmy condor]

what are you trying to do

[outer condor]

stance bar is stealth

i want to add a /cancelaura to it

[balmy condor]

so then make your cancelaura macro

and put it on the stealth bar

[outer condor]

yeah duh

i'm asking how lmao

the default stealth skill is there

and is not movable

[balmy condor]

oh you want to cancelaura the stealth?

the stealth button is keybindable

[outer condor]

ok

so

i keybinded the stance bar which contains the stealth

but it's the default stealth

i want to set the stance bar to be the macro, instead of the default stealth

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah the stance bar you can't change

so you would have to make another action bar

and then add the macro to that and from there just /cast
/cancelaura
whatever you're doing

[outer condor]

hm

what's "extra action bar" for

it's a single bind one

[balmy condor]

yeah that's for boss mechanics and stuff

like uh

cloak on carapace

and neck on nzoth

[outer condor]

no idea but alright

can I make another action bar with a single bind?

or do I just overlap an existing one

[balmy condor]

you can just make a bar

with 1 button

and then size that however you want

[outer condor]

works well enough, ty

[balmy condor]

Np

[sly sequoia]

hi

i need help i really cant understand wowhead or icy veins or any other fvideo in youtube that helps building rouge assasination talents and rotation

[balmy condor]

What’s the problem with those guides

Do you not understand why those choices are taken?

[sly sequoia]

yeah

also i am kind of dump my self

my friend used to guide me in everything related to talents

and explained to me why use this insted of that and so on

[balmy condor]

Aight so I guess step 1 is how geared are you

[sly sequoia]

badly

[balmy condor]

Perfect

[sly sequoia]

catacalysim gear on 108

[balmy condor]

Aha, so not even this expansion

[sly sequoia]

yup

[balmy condor]

So before you hit max level, guides won’t help you whatsoever to be honest

Leveling is an unbalanced nightmare

[sly sequoia]

i thought the same way

[balmy condor]

So I wouldn’t worry about that too much

[sly sequoia]

hit 120 then make a build

but i thought i could use some useful talents at 108

i ended up deleting what i was using then left my self clueless

[balmy condor]

Sure

So instead of just giving you some cookie cutter “take this and be happy” let’s have a chat about why, and how we come to those conclusions

Let’s think about uh

Row 2

With nightstalker/subterfuge/master assassin

[sly sequoia]

ok?

[balmy condor]

That’s one of the more interesting ones

[sly sequoia]

i used nightstalker untill 100

then switched to master assasin

but then they say the middle one is better

[balmy condor]

Okay, and what was your thinking behind that

[sly sequoia]

nightstalker is good as a starter

[balmy condor]

So let’s say you’re idk

Questing out in the world

You start from stealth obviously

Nightstalker increases your first move out of stealth

[sly sequoia]

yeah 20%

[balmy condor]

50% for sin

So what are you hitting

[sly sequoia]

sin stands for?

[balmy condor]

Assassination, the spec we’re playing

[sly sequoia]

k

normal enemy maybe?

[balmy condor]

Sure

[sly sequoia]

hiting pve

[balmy condor]

What

[sly sequoia]

sorry go ahead

[balmy condor]

I mean what skill do you use first

[sly sequoia]

oh yeah cheap shot

that stun them

[balmy condor]

Sure

[sly sequoia]

then i use this

[balmy condor]

So by using nightstalker

Into a cheap shot

What’s that doing

[sly sequoia]

stuning

[balmy condor]

Yes but specifically with nightstalker

[sly sequoia]

with prey of the weak it gives some 5sec buf to deal more dmg

[balmy condor]

Yeah but nightstalker isn’t doing anything right

[sly sequoia]

yeah

its only when stealth

so its not very good

[balmy condor]

Cheap shot does no damage, therefore the damage part of nightstalker doesn’t help

Exactly

So instead of that, subterfuge is suggested

[sly sequoia]

and stealth only last for 3 sec

[balmy condor]

That’s what subterfuge does

When you cast an ability from stealth, you’re immediately out of stealth

There’s no delay to it

Subterfuge allows you to use stealth abilities for 3 seconds after

So knowing that you have 3 seconds of stealth, and subterfuge empowers your garrote from stealth

What do we notice

How would you start the fight now

[sly sequoia]

stun

cheap shot

[balmy condor]

Sure

[sly sequoia]

and use garrote afterward

[balmy condor]

Yep

[sly sequoia]

stack 2 garrote