assassination

[balmy condor]

we're still waiting on tuning

so honestly, if we figure things out going into the tier

and they add something on top

it won't be that bad

[grizzled jay]

it'll be a week before 9.3 launches, rogues have been usin Serrated Bone Spike for 1.5 years.

Whispyr: we're still waiting on tuning

[vestal wren]

adding tier sets on top of all this honestly sounds like a pain
its not a issue, once they add tier sets we have a very good knowlage of the other systems

[balmy condor]

true

yeah what fuu said

[low girder]

i meant for them rather than us

tuning wise

[balmy condor]

yeah well

that's their job

we just look at numbers like cubicle monkeys

[low girder]

i know they like to say more knobs is better but it's not ever going to work that way lol

[vestal wren]

for apl changes, if you have ideas about changes, just suggest them.
If you are familiar with logical expressions you can fiddle with the apl too.

[fallow otter]

Sounds like something Paris Hilton said

[balmy condor]

yeah I've been looking at them

[vestal wren]

i think having more systems can be beneficial

allows you to customize/adjust more

[grizzled jay]

people complain about borrowed power but nerfing/buffing the systems instead of the classes themselves is better imo

[vestal wren]

e.g. you could have 3 legendary items that are best depending if you are:

• on Single target
• cleave
• aoe

[low girder]

i would agree in a system where you could swap without a lockout

[grizzled jay]

i think that's why they deleted all the auras and just applied the auras to the base classes

they are probably tired of adjusting base #s

[balmy condor]

I agree that on a basis, more knobs technically allows finer tuning and fiddling that wouldn't normally be possible. In theory, it is strictly more efficient. Blizzard not balancing it properly is on them, not the knobs they add tbh. It's difficult, but it's not impossible

[vestal wren]

people do read to much into baseline

[balmy condor]

people read too much into anything with numbers fuu

[vestal wren]

true

[fallow otter]

I hope we have options but not to the level where we are respecing every boss, I'm alright with swapping leggos. Not sure how to balance that idea though in my head, I want my cake and to eat it too in the case

[umbral rapids]

Whispyr

[balmy condor]

hey there's a name I haven't seen in a while

[fallow otter]

Options but if we are swapping specs every boss when combined with the 9 different things we have to eat/put on gear I feel like it's gonna get old

[balmy condor]

how you doing bb

[umbral rapids]

Hiii

Yeah I’m not playing wow atm haha

[vestal wren]

i don't mind swapping legos or talents for bosses

[balmy condor]

if you're super min maxing

I think its valid to swap things for every boss

[umbral rapids]

Whispyr, yes or no, sin good ?

[balmy condor]

you can play the same thing for every single fight

sin fine in raids
sketch in m+
good pvp
waiting on tuning, come back next month

[fallow otter]

Swapping leggos is fine actually that's what I'm hoping for

[umbral rapids]

I actually like swapping stuff in raids

[low girder]

that's the primary goal with the lockouts, so they can add things without you swapping them all the time, i just find them more irritating when i can't but that's a personal thing

[umbral rapids]

@balmy condor u rock ❤️

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

Not sure how I feel about respect every boss

[umbral rapids]

Just say good morning

And be nice

[fallow otter]

I think it's coz kinda spoilt atm with CT

[vestal wren]

btw. as always, if you find a mistake or anything in the pin just give me a notice

( could haste be bad in the pre patch 🤔 )

[balmy condor]

I did some stat plots and honestly everything is bad

[low girder]

sin doesn't scale, heard it here first

[balmy condor]

but its fine cause everything is EQUALLY bad

[outer lotus]

sin dead on arrival

[balmy condor]

stat weights are agi > whatever the fuck you want man

heard it here first

[red pagoda]

makes gearing easy at least

[fallow otter]

Gearing

[vestal wren]

mystler did iirc a stat plot for ptr and haste did look bad
haste was slightly better in the stat plot i did for sin but all 3 others did seem good too

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's similar to what I saw as well

[old thistle]

What's the point of the master assassin talent when you can get the lego

[balmy condor]

because you could use a different lego

its definitely a little yikes though

[old thistle]

The talent got there after they removed Legos , doesn't make sense anymore

[crimson palm]

has anyone checked if deathly shadows works with sin?

[balmy condor]

I think if it did, they fixed it in the akaari/celerity build

[final saffron]

so what do people generally think about SnD coming back? I kinda find it lackluster in it's current state

[balmy condor]

its strong but boring

and that's basically it

[summer marten]

terrible, worst decision ever... and they doubled down on it to make it even worse for assassination and make it have even less sense because sin has strongest snd

[winter moss]

[balmy condor]

okay see now that opinion is a little extreme

[summer marten]

more autoattacks sure screams assassination

[winter moss]

more aa means more poison proccs

ye screams sin somewhat

[balmy condor]

12 minute single target fights also doesn't scream assassination

but

[summer marten]

you can just increase chance to proc... no need to autoattack more, if you want more poison damage

[final saffron]

I for one does not want 2 more keybinds if now with SnD coming back and if Blindside will be the "go to" talent for ST. But that's hopefully not the case :d

[winter moss]

nobody said dmg

i said proccs

[summer marten]

and chance to proc means just that

[balmy condor]

@final saffron snd replaces essence, blindside replaces CT

gg

[winter moss]

poison dmg != poison procc chance

[summer marten]

as i said... "you can just increase chance to proc"

[winter moss]

as poison dmg is scaled by mastery. the additional procc chance doesnt in*increase the dmg

you just do more poison related dmg

[final saffron]

I only played during Uldir before I realized that this expac would be shit haha, never used my essences.

[balmy condor]

you can't do "just increase chance to proc" cause that has aoe implications as well

its a very simplified view

[winter moss]

since when do aa have aoe implications

[balmy condor]

on a little more nuanced problem

[tidal oracle]

The SnD change is at worst a boring upkeep buff

I don’t see the problem

[balmy condor]

well if you increase poison application baseline

that has aoe problems

[winter moss]

since when

[balmy condor]

is that not the idea here

[winter moss]

do autoattacks

have impacts on aoe

[balmy condor]

who said auto attacks

[tidal oracle]

Fan of knives apply poisons

Do they not

[balmy condor]

yes

that's what I'm thinking

you increase poison application chance baseline

[winter moss]

snd increases autoattack speed

[balmy condor]

you fuck with fok

[velvet ridge]

Why not just remove snd, and buff our damage elsewhere. I want to do fat poison and bleed dmg

[balmy condor]

snd is fat poison damage

[velvet ridge]

But it doesn't feel like it, fantasy wise

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[summer marten]

its much more white damage than poison damage... but ok

[tidal oracle]

That’s how the spec has worked for years

[final saffron]

@tidal oracle yea it's just a upkeep buff, but brings nothing interesting into the spec coming back

[tidal oracle]

So what’s the big problem

At worst it’s a net neutral

[final saffron]

another keybind is my biggest problem haha 😄

[summer marten]

its not neutral lol

[final saffron]

when the spec could be balanced without it

[balmy condor]

the big problem is "me no like snd even if it's huge damage because I don't like button"

[summer marten]

well obviously... its not like its "free damage"... other abilities deal less to balance for it

[balmy condor]

?

[winter moss]

[tidal oracle]

Genai you’re making a massive problem out of nothing, your opinion is biased and basically worthless

[balmy condor]

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean

[verbal mantle]

[shrewd night]

[tidal oracle]

Want me to link the MoP log where poison and auto damage is mostly the same as it is now

[summer marten]

many people say "its good damage so why not"... well, its not like you will not be balanced as a spec with snd in mind, so other stuff will deal less... if thats not obvious

[shrewd night]

Can yall just agree to disagree?

[verbal mantle]

it's gonna be okey Shiennar

[winter moss]

zip it shiennar

im waiting for my popcorn move

[balmy condor]

still more productive than any conversation sub has had in the last week

[summer marten]

you essentially just trade active damage with passive damage and ramp up + maintenance buff... why would anyone be ok with that, and how can someone say thats "net neutral" is beyond me

[shrewd night]

I know this is popcorn hour, but my headache pills hasnt kicked in yet and this is ultra triggering discussion.

[final saffron]

ye if anything it makes us more dependant on staying on the target 24/7 which will make melee unfriendly mechanics hit us harder than before

[winter moss]

imagine dreaming of a balancing team at blizz

[surreal solar]

Didn’t General just go through this crapbasket of a discussion?

[tidal oracle]

Yes

[balmy condor]

this shit show pops up all the time

[long thistle]

whats the max corruption u guys are running 59?

[balmy condor]

yeah 59 usually

[winter moss]

121

id not go over that

[shrewd night]

0 in two weeks

[tidal oracle]

[crimson palm]

79

[velvet ridge]

69

[crimson palm]

lies, there's no setup for 69 atm

[winter moss]

well there is

?

[crimson palm]

wanna bet there isnt

[shrewd night]

he meant 69 haste and 34 crit, hemo, follow the times.

[balmy condor]

the infexious double whammy

[crimson palm]

i can prove it mathematically to ya

[winter moss]

go on

[velvet ridge]

6+9

[winter moss]

do it then

im waiting

[shrewd night]

https://tenor.com/view/headache-migraine-stressedout-charlieday-itsalwayssunnyinphiladelphia-gif-5048553

[balmy condor]

parties over boys

its almost 4:30 in the morning

[winter moss]

go to bed then

[shrewd night]

seeya never whispyr

[balmy condor]

I don't sleep

[winter moss]

but keep it sin related

[balmy condor]

just shhhhh in here

:)

[winter moss]

@balmy condor

[crimson palm]

125 corr resistance

[verbal mantle]

Swamp is closed until Whispyr comes back ty

[velvet ridge]

What legendary you all gonna rush first

[crimson palm]

most corruptions end either at 0 or 5

[final saffron]

you gotta have some bullshit to wake up to tomorrow @balmy condor (;

[crimson palm]

u cant get a 9 by addition

[winter moss]

@crimson palm what about not having max resistance?

[balmy condor]

corruption math 2 weeks before prepatch

[winter moss]

also counts towards the setup

[balmy condor]

[winter moss]

wow

[balmy condor]

shush you fkin nerds

[winter moss]

what a great argument

[balmy condor]

why you guys all toxic :(

[winter moss]

why are you still not in ot?

[balmy condor]

go fight bout your numbers somewhere else

[final saffron]

"Sin Rogues"

[crimson palm]

r u a hemophobe @shrewd night

[low girder]

Imagine it only being 4:30am

[crimson palm]

pun intended

[winter moss]

i can speak for the broad band of ppl in here

we all are

[shrewd night]

Im a hemophone yes.

So lets get back on track

whats your opinion on this snd thing ive been hearing about?

[balmy condor]

plz no

[final saffron]

heuheuheueh

[low girder]

wat covenant do i go

[verbal mantle]

non

[crimson palm]

what's the best race ror rogue

[winter moss]

sylvanas' onlyfans covenant

@crimson palm herodamage.com/rogue

[crimson palm]

no i trust koffing only

[balmy condor]

kinda offended tbh

[winter moss]

zip it pls 🙂

[shrewd night]

I get my info from okaypapa

[crimson palm]

did i tell you he's probably maining a rogue

next tier

i'll be slapping his cheecks so damn hard

[shrewd night]

[crimson palm]

ill get him on this disc so we can mutually flame his logs

need more gandalf greyparsers here

[winter moss]

i think since you started typing we got enough of that sort

[shrewd night]

@tidal terrace he is already here

[crimson palm]

that coming from an actual greyparser is cringe

@tidal terrace hey we're flaming you

[shrewd night]

miss you fam, dont bring disgrace upon family ok. The sin rogues wants you to succeed.

[patent topaz]

wasnt he on Defias? I recognize the name

[quaint sequoia]

What spec do you think will be best to level in, sin or sub?

[golden basalt]

in SL or fresh?

[quaint sequoia]

in sl

[royal lantern]

sub

assassination is dot based, aka you stuff takes time too do dmg

and why wait for dmg, when you can just burst lvling mobs down in 2-3globals

[golden basalt]

sub with prem + mfd is just gonna blast through mobs with ease

id say sub, then outlaw and worst would be sin

[normal olive]

[urban gale]

Is m+ open at start of expansion?

[normal olive]

no

[urban gale]

So m0 will be highest available week one?

[normal olive]

ye

[urban gale]

When does m+ open usually

[paper verge]

like 2 weeks after sl hits or something i think?

season i mean

[urban gale]

People I know seem to be really panicked about prepaid gearing with one item per dungeon, does that really make sense?

Pre raid*

[delicate bone]

mythic week

[paper verge]

honestly not sure..others who are more hardcore will anwser

[delicate bone]

2 items for timing the dungeon

[paper verge]

i don't mind waiting a few weeks/months to start heroic raiding

[delicate bone]

shouldnt be that bad tbh, should be able to spam dungeons and be more than ready for heroic runs

[normal olive]

november 10th

with the raid

[spice surge]

M+ typically releases at the same time as heroic raids are released, altough they usually reward a few ilvls lower items for that first week before mythic is released

I suspect that ilvl reduction wont be in SL though since m+ in general awards lower ilvl gear now

But nothing is confirmed

[oak sleet]

Assa be better then sub pls yes

[normal olive]

let's hope we just all have to reroll outlaw

[jolly comet]

leave outlaw spy.

[sullen fossil]

What is outlaw? something you.. eat?

[obtuse anvil]

[fleet whale]

outlaw is currently simming slightly higher than sin in ST

for SL

sin needs buff

[delicate bone]

yea

both need buffs

but outlaw being better than sin in st is a meme

[vestal wren]

Legendary Powers(no Conduits,no Covenant)):

[fleet whale]

is finality usable by every rogue spec?

[normal olive]

That's without covenant abilitys right?

[vestal wren]

is finality usable by every rogue spec?
no

outlaw has no way of using it

this is how it works:

[fleet whale]

so it would only work with rupture for sin?

[grizzled jay]

Yes but it's still pretty bad

[fleet whale]

yeah looks weak

[grizzled jay]

You'd 1CP rupture into 4/5CP rupture but that's a lot of globals you are not spending on Envenom uptime just for +20% damage on Rupture

[fleet whale]

if it did work with envenom though

it would have doomblade synergy

assuming if we can use 2 leggos eventually

[grizzled jay]

oh yeah i forgot to check if Doomblade was procing off SBS

im assuming it does

[eternal mirage]

Hi im new and wanted to ask if there is a big diffrence between the Horde races for a rouge in terms of dps?

in SL

[balmy condor]

Races don’t matter

For any class in pve for that matter

[grizzled jay]

damn the 5% variance makes it impossible to tell if 5% increase or decrease effects are working lol

unless you set a baseline, but i dont have that time

[balmy condor]

Just gotta increase sample size

[grizzled jay]

yah im too lazy atm

[eternal mirage]

Ok ty @balmy condor

[grizzled jay]

Envenom with Doomblade + SBS did the same dam as without SBS but that could have just been a "low roll" variance that negated the +5% from SBS

[balmy condor]

@eternal mirage the most you’ll see is cheese like goblin jump on kiljaeden and that kind of thing

That’s utility based

Blood elf in m+ for the cleanse for example etc etc

[grizzled jay]

Orc so your transmog actually looks good

[proper sage]

not orc so your transmog doesn't look awful*

[grizzled jay]

???

[eternal mirage]

Nah im Choosing Blood Elf stealing a benefical effect seems neat + energy

[balmy condor]

Welcome to the normie squad xD

We’re all blood elf here

https://tenor.com/view/burn-elmo-pyro-burn-it-down-ashes-gif-5632946

[eternal mirage]

New white hair color in sl seems rly cool for Blood elfs

[proper sage]

im a basic belf witch 🙂

[shut garnet]

i wonder if master assassin overtakes scoundrel with sepsis

[balmy condor]

excellent question

lets find out

@shut garnet

[low girder]

sepsis good

[balmy condor]

yeah I've been looking at sepsis and MP and stuff

ma sucks

lmao

20% between legendaries

omegakek

[fleet whale]

MP?

is that master poisoner

[balmy condor]

ye

[fleet whale]

does it buff sepsis?

[balmy condor]

no

I was looking at MP yesterday was the point

[fleet whale]

night fae doesn't really look that bad for ST

[balmy condor]

yep

[fleet whale]

would fall behind in M+ though, unless if you are really good in taking advantage of the extra vanish

[balmy condor]

I think even then

probably not worth

[fleet whale]

plus no ss

feels bad

[balmy condor]

ye

[safe nacelle]

I'm seeing Necrolord BiS for Assassination. Is there a disparity in damage if I were to choose Assassination Vinthyr?

[balmy condor]

venthyr is a slightly behind with rank 15 conduits

and very behind without them

the conduit carries it atm

we're kinda still waiting for further tuning though

[safe nacelle]

I appreciate the response. I noticed Sub Vinthyr was putting out stronger numbers at this current juncture over Assassination so it's really just weighing my love of gothic horror and vampires against my love of the Assassination spec. May just have to go sub. 😦

[balmy condor]

yeah sub gets to use slaughter more than sin

[shut garnet]

holy fk wait

thats actually kinda sick

[balmy condor]

what is

[shut garnet]

the fact that the diff between necro scoundrel and

sepsis scoundrel is basically nonexistent

[balmy condor]

I'm doing some more sims atm

that uh

make the difference bigger

probably

sorry bout that

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

I have acquired the 🧀

[low girder]

[balmy condor]

soon ™️

[low girder]

killing my dreams over here

[grizzled jay]

Sepsis at least has a relevant Potency Conduit and it scales with Shiv. So potentially gets better later.

[crude kelp]

hi. I just picked up Assassination. When do i use BotE? is it before Vendetta?

[balmy condor]

after exsang/tb

[crude kelp]

i dont know what that is.

[balmy condor]

exsanguinate and toxic blade

the talents

second to last row

[crude kelp]

great, thank you

[leaden scarab]

is it better to take crimson tempest or poison bomb in high keys this week?

[balmy condor]

Depends on your gear and the dungeon

[leaden scarab]

pushing 15's with 468ish

[balmy condor]

With an haste build

Or a crit build

Are you using a TTK

[leaden scarab]

ttk?

[balmy condor]

Twist the knife

[leaden scarab]

2 shroud, 2 nothing, 1 twist, 1 double dose. best i have sadly

[balmy condor]

Probably Pb then

[leaden scarab]

cool. thanks

[balmy condor]

[leaden scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/doge-grins-yay-smile-cute-gif-15359677

during toxic blade, we want as many high combo point envenoms as possible right? wow analyzer said i wasted 6 out of 12 combo points on maut

[balmy condor]

wowanalyzer is pretty bait

but yes

[surreal solar]

wowanalyzer is very jebait

[balmy condor]

you're trying for most envenoms in a tb window

[leaden scarab]

is there another website like wow analyzer that tells me stuff like it does?

garrote uptime missed and so on?

[balmy condor]

warcraftlogs itself

[leaden scarab]

word. ill have to mess around then

[surreal solar]

alot of people can likely help you read logs too if you get confused

[balmy condor]

<---

[leaden scarab]

ill probably ask a bit in here throughout the week. we apply our bleeds right before they end too dont we? ignoring empowered garrote

or do we let them fall off

[balmy condor]

empowered bleeds you let fall

normal bleeds you refresh any time in pandemic

[leaden scarab]

got it

[mystic osprey]

Is this really true or should you refresh both before exsanguinating.

[balmy condor]

that's outdated

you always refresh both before exsang

[upbeat mirage]

"do not ever refresh" would refer to the empowered ticks post-exsanguinate.

don't overwrite them until they fall off.

[ruby idol]

@vestal wren Yo I don't have a git account so I'm not posting it, but SnD currently pulls you out of stealth SPECIFICALLY as Assa if you're talented into Subterfuge on Beta.

The bug doesn't happen with Subterfuge as Sub tho lmao

[balmy condor]

does it happen with nightstalker?

[ruby idol]

No

[grizzled jay]

holy shit is THAT what is dropping my stealth?

LMAOOO

i legit could not figure it out

it was driving me insane

[ruby idol]

specifically Assa and Subterfuge

[balmy condor]

fun bug

[grizzled jay]

i knew it was some Aura bug but wouldn't replicate it

[proper sage]

thats hilarious

[slim jay]

for m+ is it worth going echoing blades if i only have 1 trait of it

[balmy condor]

if you're going a crit build, yes

[slim jay]

ty

[radiant sorrel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

should i stack crit for EB build?

[balmy condor]

yes

crit to ~55-60% then strikes

prepatch next week removing corruptions though

[strange python]

yeah ik, but thanks

[balmy condor]

no problem

[strange python]

what about trinks

[balmy condor]

spyglass + plumage

[strange python]

dont have plummage, next best?

[balmy condor]

dice

[strange python]

and is st all haste?

[balmy condor]

optimally yeah

[strange python]

haste then what mastery?

[balmy condor]

crit and mast both good

[strange python]

trinks for st?

[balmy condor]

vita gale for a haste build

[strange python]

should i replace gale in situations like masks where i cant stand still?

[balmy condor]

yeah, ideally with plumage, but dice are good, spyglass is okay too

[strange python]

no cap on haste for st? just all haste?

[balmy condor]

yeah, eventually you would replace some gems/chants

when you get above like 70ish%

[shut garnet]

in 2 weeks it all wont matter

[balmy condor]

yep

thank god

[shut garnet]

ill miss getting hit by 7 brothers in 10 seconds

oh wait

[civic tide]

Is EB still gonna be the go to azerite trait for m+ in pre patch? Any info?

[balmy condor]

I would assume that it's still fine to use since HoD is gone as well

but its definitely much weaker

no point in really talking about prepatch

[civic tide]

no point cause there is no info or cause there is no point to optimize for such short time? : P

[balmy condor]

no point to optimize and the scaling is going to be all janky and its just a mess

would also have to do sims and things with essences and all that

which isn't worth the time

[civic tide]

ye maybe, was just thinking to get a semi optimal build to get an idea of how class plays in SL for both asa and sub

with OKish gear

[balmy condor]

if you want an idea of how the class plays in sl

don't use essences

don't use traits

[fleet whale]

were gonna be dealing higher damage at level 50

than what we will be doing at 60 lol

[balmy condor]

memory still exists in prepatch

that's a huge speed increased to the gameplay

blood is huge, that's gonna be gone

shrouded doesn't exist

eb doesn't exist

[fleet whale]

still isn't as bad as going from Legion to BFA

[balmy condor]

trying to see how a spec feels in shadowlands by optimizing prepatch is a bad bad idea

[velvet geyser]

Does someone have a link to a WA with tracking for how many garrotes and ruptures are active? I cant find anything but timers on Wago

[balmy condor]

tracking how many?

[velvet geyser]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

I think i've seen one, but they're super uncommon

people just track on the nameplate

[velvet geyser]

I have timers and pandemic sorted

Yeah, Plater or so?

[balmy condor]

plater, kui

whatever

they all do it fine

[velvet geyser]

Im using threat plates, maybe best to switch

[edgy pawn]

https://wago.io/zHfygb2el

[velvet geyser]

Oh that one has names, thats nice

Thanks

[balmy condor]

I can't stand that lmao

I thought you meant just a counter for how many you have up

[velvet geyser]

Thats what im after

Just a simple counter

[edgy pawn]

lemme log in, got that as well

sec

[cerulean kernel]

Any suggestions for pre patch builds? Did some testing and seems like back to a DD build and WV seemed to do well due to squish

[balmy condor]

if you're mythic geared, you'll still run exsang

[cerulean kernel]

Guild plans to still raid in prepatch so trying to see if i have the az gear

really? hmm

so stick with the 3X SS and exsang, I assume back to poison bomb

[balmy condor]

poison bomb and lucid

[cerulean kernel]

ahhhh great idea

[velvet geyser]

Whats the buy in for haste for the exang build? probably in the pins lol

[edgy pawn]

@velvet geyser https://wago.io/ryvzVhSFm/2 and https://wago.io/r1kOJrVt7/5

[balmy condor]

~30% with the right azerite

[velvet geyser]

30, Sick

[balmy condor]

not sure what it is in prepatch

[velvet geyser]

I can do like, 42

Thanks @edgy pawn !

[balmy condor]

probably closer to 35ish

[edgy pawn]

np

[velvet geyser]

awh, page not qaccessable

Accessable*

[honest skiff]

How’s rogue in torghast thus far? Haven’t seen a lot of rogue content in ptr for torghast.

[balmy condor]

fine

it does all the things rogue's normally do in solo content

[honest skiff]

I would assume most stuff in Torghast can see you in stealth

[cerulean kernel]

Sin felt super fun fully buffed in Torghast

[balmy condor]

there's a couple yeah

[cerulean kernel]

Hard to beat that sub heal in solo content

[honest skiff]

I’m trying to decide between rogue warrior and dk. I don’t love the dk class fantasy that much. I do like rogue class fantasy though.

[balmy condor]

sin also just doesn't have burst

[fleet whale]

It kind of still hast burst but just in a different way

[balmy condor]

yeah

[fleet whale]

vendetta will likely still lead to high opener damage

[balmy condor]

in the way that you have to wait for 10 seconds

[cerulean kernel]

In the rogue disc its a bit bias so I say rogue for life @honest skiff

[fleet whale]

it will have ramp up for sure

but it should still have strong opener damage

[balmy condor]

yes but we're talking about torghast

where you're nuking in like 3 globals

[honest skiff]

Sub has some decent self heals outside of vial?

[balmy condor]

sub heals in stealth/shadow dance

with a talent

[honest skiff]

Ahhh ok. That makes sense.

[fleet whale]

oh whoops

didn't read above, thought it was about raiding

[fallow otter]

I pretty much never do any solo content as sin

[balmy condor]

same

[low girder]

i ended up doing visions with it eventually

that was about it

[fallow otter]

I did some bosses with it

Like mage tower with clf

[fleet whale]

Sin is fine in solo content once you get at least raiding gear

it's a little sluggish prior to that but not awful

[fallow otter]

Maybe I don't have enough gear

Lol

Outlaw is just better suited that's all

Chain pulling etc

Grapple

[fleet whale]

at like 474 ilvl i blow everything up as sin

[drowsy warren]

Shrouded suffocation is mendatory as sin this expansion

[celest mountain]

how 2 pad on nzoth

[fallow otter]

@fleet whale I'm like 481 equipped, I'm not having any issues doing content as sin but outlaw just easier

Although it did get a nice QoL bump with CT being used on st

@celest mountain heroic?

[celest mountain]

mythic

cant get myself above a ~85 and i think its because we arent letting people go insane

[carmine valve]

Quick question, Does Exanguinate work on Necrolord bleed?

[balmy condor]

no

[fallow otter]

cant get myself above a ~85 and i think its because we arent letting people go insane
@celest mountain nah my parse is like 40 world and I didn't go insane

Are you on first psy?

[celest mountain]

i am

i got 90 tonight and died, so i guess its fixable a bit

[proper sage]

pog

[fallow otter]

You can get boned a bit with who you are paired with obv

[celest mountain]

yeah i usually just shadowstep out since we wipe too many times each week

[fallow otter]

That sept 16 run I accidentally used gcb and kr trinket haha

Need the raid to not screw over your vend timing ofc

When does your group kill? How many evokes after secret

[celest mountain]

2 after secret

but just barely

[fallow otter]

Yeah should be able to get high 90s

[lament dove]

if I go EB crit build in m+ should I go one more severe at 60% crit or would that be too much? (I got a 475 spyglass and I guess there's BotE as well)

[balmy condor]

60% is already a ton

I wouldn't go higher

[lament dove]

alright, thanks

[shut garnet]

@celest mountain u dont need to go insane to parse that fight

u can get 100k+ without insane burn at the end

[near pilot]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[crimson palm]

@vast forum game wants me to farm that fkin socket 😦

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/YEbzHHk7Tnqj42uWJ9JiX ez 120k

[placid dawn]

dont do it, not worth it anymore

[royal lantern]

farm sockets 2-3weeks before prepatch

you allright buddy?

[eternal mirage]

Maybe he needs to do that to kill time till SL.

[shrewd night]

Playing wow this close to prepatch

[eternal mirage]

I know

[royal lantern]

playing wow

[eternal mirage]

[strange python]

hello all 1st time rogue was looking for a great all around spec M+, arena, wpvp some raids does asssasination do pretty good damage wise compared to sub or outlaw ?

[delicate bone]

noone has a clue for SL

live right now though, assassination is more than ok for all content

[vast forum]

@crimson palm i hate you

[balmy condor]

We don’t do that here

Only love

[vast forum]

We hate people with 475 galecallers

No exception

[verbal mantle]

you mean this one ?

[balmy condor]

sweats in 475 Galecaller naturally dropping with speed and a socket

[verbal mantle]

from my char sheet

[spice zealot]

at least in m+ I feel like that trinket is too unreliable to use but maybe I am wrong

[balmy condor]

Well yeah, you don’t use it in m+

[vestal wren]

@faint harness all stats seem decent:

[balmy condor]

Not compared to agi tho

[vestal wren]

well the aim of the plot is to decide about secondary stats

[balmy condor]

Ye ik

[vestal wren]

agi should be ahead

so you could say agi > all

[balmy condor]

I’m just still angry about how good primary stats are this time around

[faint harness]

context for the plot is that sub has vers way ahead

wanted to compare

and the history of specs with big vers scaling is rather that they have terrible secondary scaling

[proper sage]

why whisp

[vestal wren]

agi is always good at the start of a xpac

[balmy condor]

Cause I don’t want my gear decisions to be kindergarten hurr durr lookie this number bigger than that number very gud

[vestal wren]

well rather "main stat"

[proper sage]

i can see that ye

[vestal wren]

and becomes less good later

[balmy condor]

Well it remains good this time around

Is the thing

[vestal wren]

potentially

[balmy condor]

Unless they add in borrowed power that scales stats again

The DR does it’s job

And agi just keeps goin up

[vestal wren]

i mean thats kind of the idea of main stats

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean I get it, and I get blizzards logic

I just personally don’t like it

[kind geyser]

is rogue viable in shadowlands?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[kind geyser]

im just afraid cause it brings nothign to the raid

like 5% buffs etc

[balmy condor]

And if you’re world top 200 you might care about that

But not everyone can bring a buff

[placid kindle]

question, what are we playing in prepatch(spec) KEKW

[balmy condor]

We’re playing whatever makes us happy in prepatch

Balance is going to be so out of whack

And the content is meaningless

Play a windwalker

[placid kindle]

so we dont play

[balmy condor]

Live your life

[placid kindle]

PepeHands

[balmy condor]

Be happy

[placid kindle]

i'm glad i got these now https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725825199248769025/758364614970310746/unknown.png

[crimson palm]

@vast forum no hate won't use it

As if it never dropped

[placid kindle]

exactly KEKW

[edgy prairie]

Would any of you lovely rogues be willing to help me write up some notes for a module to help Rogues in Shadowlands? Wanting to know the rotation, suggestions to get better, key analysis on damage abilities/buffs/etc. This is for WoWAnalyzer.

[drowsy warren]

Keep bleeds up and don’t cap combo points

You can publish this anywhere

Credit me please

[strange python]

lolol

[edgy prairie]

😵

[vast forum]

he's not wrong you know

apl isn't optimized for shadowlands yet tho

once it is, you can probably do stuff for wowanalyzer

we still have no idea what talents/covenants/legendaries will be best in what situation, and how they'll impact our rotation

[edgy prairie]

I know the basic premise, wasn't sure if there was more information needed/known at this point. I'll be back to ping y'all after prepatch and release. Fair warning.\

[vast forum]

probably best to ping after heroic week 😄

when most of the tuning is finalized

[edgy prairie]

Yeah.... but I'm a rebel.

[balmy condor]

What’s this module tho

[edgy prairie]

For WoWAnalyzer

I'm working on brining all of Rogue up to date for Shadowlands.

[balmy condor]

Aha

[edgy prairie]

I haven't played rogue since Cata but am looking to get back into it and what better way to learn the class than to build things that analyze it.

[balmy condor]

A noble task

[drowsy warren]

Won’t be any challenging content at the start anyway

So we can test it before we need all this info

[balmy condor]

Even if it’s incredibly difficult

[edgy prairie]

I enjoy a good challenge

[velvet geyser]

I guess when pre-patch goes live, double dose will be good again lol

[balmy condor]

It’ll be good enough

But exsang will still be good

[velvet geyser]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

Don’t forget that we’re losing tb

[velvet geyser]

Oh yes, that's right!

[urban gale]

Why do other class discord suck compared to this one

[balmy condor]

Because the don’t spread the love

[drowsy warren]

True

[balmy condor]

And idk, they generally seem less organized imo

[urban gale]

Altered time is very unhelpful

The discord, not the spell

[nimble hill]

Council of the Black Harvest is pretty chill from my experience

[drowsy warren]

I feel like the discord are good place to find basics, but they aren’t useful if you are looking for more

[edgy prairie]

Random* question, does Assassination still use snapshotting?

[balmy condor]

yes

on nighstalker and exsang

subterfuge technically as well if you count that

[vast forum]

snapshotting in general isn't a thing tho

[balmy condor]

yeah

just those

and its not really a traditional snapshot

exsang snapshots haste

that's the only 'traditional' snapshot I guess

[edgy prairie]

Gotcha. I thought all snapshotting was done away with (sans Feral druid). Thank you! 🙂

[balmy condor]

np

[crimson palm]

All that matters for sin is the vendetta window dmg

And the amnt of envenoms u put into tb

[balmy condor]

I mean

kinda?

wouldn't say "all"

but its definitely a big part

[crimson palm]

U can afk betweem vendettas and do 70% of ur dmg

I simmed not casting muti and using garrote only

Was simming for 80k

Out of 117k

[drowsy warren]

I once went into a M+ without 2 daggers and I only used fan of knifes to generate combo points

Was not bad haha

[iron valve]

fok slappers new meta

[balmy condor]

fok slappers old cheese meta

[crimson palm]

Fok with slappers sims better on 4t

Than your standard build

[vast forum]

well yea

you don't use mutilate 😄

[frigid kestrel]

So we weren’t touched this week

Hmm, gonna be a boring week to lurk

[honest vessel]

seems like they're happy with rogue mechanically

honestly, besides some talents, i am too

[low girder]

decent chance we still got base tuning

wouldn't need a blue post for that

not like, guaranteed, but possible

[balmy condor]

I would've liked to have seen kyrian changes

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

Being hopeful Sin gets a touch of love. I mean I know we are in a average spot, but a guy can only dream for a smidgen of a little more

[balmy condor]

even if I hate kyrian, the fact that its so bad is kinda rippy

[frigid kestrel]

TBF a lot of classes/specs have an extremely crappy covenant

Which shouldn’t be the case, but meh

What you gonna do?

[honest vessel]

honestly, i wouldnt be too upset with having garbage covenants that i just never have to worry about, but that's me. Def ER needs a heavy look to ever be competetive

it is kinda surprising they didnt hit it in this group of posts tho

seems like the kinda thing they'd do

[balmy condor]

yeah

[low girder]

i'd be upset if it was my favourite

which is why it's a shame

[balmy condor]

they completely redid spriest halfway through beta

but we didn't get shit

kinda toxic

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

What was it legion where sin got a change every single week for like 6 weeks straight or something?

Just a thought that came to my head

[balmy condor]

well in legion every spec got omega changes

cause that was when they reworked every spec

[frigid kestrel]

Na, I specifically remember sin getting touched and changed in big ways almost week over week. It was actually annoying.

It also could have been every other class as well since I only ever care about sin rogue

[low girder]

i don't remember much outside of a couple of our relics

[frigid kestrel]

But god it was frustrating

[low girder]

and then agonizing going away in 7.2

[frigid kestrel]

I think there was an ongoing forum about it when it happened.

[low girder]

they added rupture to poison bomb procs at some point as well

maybe that was 7.1

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

Could have been it

[low girder]

nope, 7.2 lol

[fleet whale]

how about that toxic blade talent that were supposed to get? lol

[low girder]

it's dead, you'll play alacrity and you'll like it

[grizzled jay]

Well-Placed Steel is that talent basically

[fleet whale]

that is a shitty "replacement"

if that is the case

[balmy condor]

but its better than sudden fractures

how could it be shitty

[low girder]

🙃

[fleet whale]

i'm pretty sure sudden fractures

is better than 100 extra damage on an ability you use every 25 seconds

[balmy condor]

well it sims lower

so

[fleet whale]

how is that even possible

[balmy condor]

envenom uptime with dashing is my guess

since it extends envenom by a lot

idk

it was simming better in most everything I did

[low girder]

isn't it only extended during the shiv

where you're dumping envenoms anyway

[balmy condor]

sudden fractures is only like 20 dps

[grizzled jay]

sudden fractures just gives 10% crit to SBS dot

[low girder]

yeah they're both trash

it's just weird to me

at some point i'll go look

[jolly comet]

https://tenor.com/view/ronpaul-happening-excited-gif-4407969

Flagellation is an instant cast with a 25 second cooldown that starts once Flagellation is removed from the target. The rogue lashes the target with Anima 3 times, dealing Shadow damage and applying a debuff for 45 seconds that causes an additional lash for each Combo Point you spend. Once the target has been lashed at least 25 times, reactivating Flagellation cleanses their torment and increases your Mastery by 10% for 25 seconds.

[cursive dagger]

that ability sounds fuckin sick

[velvet geyser]

Im gonna need a black latex transmog now

[true ingot]

BDSM transmog incoming.

[neat saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/calm-the-office-michael-scott-steve-carell-gif-4634536

[drifting light]

The hyyyyyyyype

[balmy condor]

looks shit imo

[low girder]

do people enjoy being target locked?

idgi

[wind totem]

Am I stupid or do you need 5 casts to get the buff? first 3 casts with 5 cp get you 24stacks then you do it again and then the 5th cast gets you the buff? Sounds like a fight needs to be about 6 minutes for you to get the buff once

[balmy condor]

you cast, then you spend cp, then you recast

[wind totem]

oh

[low girder]

5 finishers won't take that long

[wind totem]

i see

i completely misunderstood it

[outer estuary]

im just wondering

[wind totem]

I thoutht the ability itself was consuming CP

[outer estuary]

how will it compare to spiky boners

[balmy condor]

100% depends on how they tune it

we have literally 0 idea

[low girder]

and what the conduit is

[velvet geyser]

Here you go lads

[marble fjord]

in aoe it's kinda pog

[outer estuary]

is it tho

it seems kinda whack for aoe

[balmy condor]

I mean 10% mastery is okay

[low girder]

we're all funnel specs now

[balmy condor]

but its still just worse than bone spike

[outer estuary]

but you need 5 finishers

[balmy condor]

you can get 5 finishers and maintain uptime

pretty comfortably

[outer estuary]

nah i mean the 10% mastery

[marble fjord]

depends on the damage of the lashes

[outer estuary]

after 5 finishers seems pretty late

[marble fjord]

but its a single target cooldown that buffs all of your finishers

[balmy condor]

?

[marble fjord]

and gives you a 10% mastery buff that gets stronger with more cleave

[balmy condor]

it doesn't buff finishers

[marble fjord]

it lashes for every CP you spend

[balmy condor]

yes

single target lash

[marble fjord]

ie. envenom procs a bunch more damage

faster envenoms in AoE situations

[outer estuary]

but thats not envenom

thats just the ability

[marble fjord]

sure, youre mostly gunna be spending it on envenom though, doesnt matter

[outer estuary]

and maybe im confused but how does more dmg lead to faster

envenoms

[balmy condor]

aoe leads to faster envenoms

is his idea

[marble fjord]

^

[outer estuary]

ahh

[marble fjord]

so you get faster 25CP

[balmy condor]

but I'm MEGA skeptical

[outer estuary]

i misunderstood then

[marble fjord]

which means ability goes on cooldown faster

[balmy condor]

bone spike still just seems strictly better

[marble fjord]

it really depends on the lash damage tho

[outer estuary]

im calling a bonerspike nerf

[untold stream]

Why are you hyped like that ? This sounds like crap

[low girder]

seems like a shitshow for sub more than us tbh

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm not hyped

[untold stream]

You're target-locked, and it's mastery

[balmy condor]

this is honestly just worse than what we had

[low girder]

doesn't work with blindside anymore

[outer estuary]

i dont think its worse than slaughter

[untold stream]

While they could have changed Kyrian which is not usable, or the Night Fae that makes you reset fight

[outer estuary]

depends on the tuning of course

[balmy condor]

not the change we want to see

[untold stream]

And just remove Slice and Dice from the game 😢

[low girder]

that's not gonna happen lol

[frigid kestrel]

Looks like I spoke to soon earlier

[marble fjord]

i find it very hard to believe that kyrian will go live as it is

[frigid kestrel]

Time to lurk away in the channel that is sub

[balmy condor]

yeah sub is kinda fucked by this tbh

we don't really care

if its overtuned it'll be okay

[grizzled jay]

they basically changed Venthyr from being: Amazing on Sub, Good on Sin, Whatever on Outlaw to: Amazing on Sub and We Don't Know on Sin/Outlaw lol

Sub keeps on winning

[low girder]

no mention of the conduit even

[balmy condor]

that heavily depends on the tuning

[crimson palm]

They can make each lash giff energy to sin

[grizzled jay]

well for Sub it's going to deal 150% increased damage

so...

[crimson palm]

Ez fix

[grizzled jay]

regardless of its tuning, it'll be 150% better for Sub than Sin/Outlaw

straight up

[low girder]

yeah, and if there's a decent dmg amp on its own conduit OH BOY

[grizzled jay]

this is also a nerf to Venthyr PvP, cause Slaughter was better than Wound since it deals real damage.

[honest vessel]

wow

this seems

bad

[balmy condor]

you and me both kira

[honest vessel]

am i reading it right...is that a 10% mast buff once about every 5 mins

[balmy condor]

no

[low girder]

nah it'll have good uptime

[balmy condor]

its 10% mastery every like 30 seconds

[low girder]

it's lashes per combo point spent, not per finisher

[honest vessel]

oh so every time the dot ticks it gives cp worth of lashes

?

[low girder]

no, just every time you use a finisher it does that amount of lashes

ie 4cp envenom, 4 lashes happen

[balmy condor]

yep

[honest vessel]

OH!

[balmy condor]

so you cast it, it lashes a couple times, then you spend 25 cp, and you reactivate to get your mastery buff

[grizzled jay]

the mastery won't be every 30s. the 25s cd starts when you activate the 10% mastery and you get it for 25s

[balmy condor]

and then you repeat

[honest vessel]

i read it like you were spending the cp on the flag itself

[fleet whale]

new slaughter maybe hype?

[honest vessel]

like it was a new finisher

[balmy condor]

no

stop hyping

[low girder]

it's not good

[grizzled jay]

so you get 25s of 10% mastery, then you activate it again and you will probably hold it for the entire 45s for more lashes, and then get 25s of mastery again

[low girder]

imo

[balmy condor]

flag is dogshit gameplay

[grizzled jay]

so its more like 10% mastery every minute for 25s

[balmy condor]

stop simping

[grizzled jay]

Blindside stonks 📉

All hail EP to boost Lash damage

[fleet whale]

idk

[low girder]

lol

[fleet whale]

still better than slaughter imo

[low girder]

i hate being locked to a target

even more than we already are

[fleet whale]

that's assassin's fantasy

[grizzled jay]

the debuff is on the target but we don't know if the damage goes to that target or not

[balmy condor]

I mean

it says "to the target"

[gloomy epoch]

i hate being locked to a target
@low girder playing the wrong rogue spec then

[low girder]

read the second sentence

thx

[versed osprey]

flag looks cool fits with the assa fantasy

[balmy condor]

flag looks like 💩

I love getting target locked

[versed osprey]

same

[balmy condor]

and abilities that don't change my rotation

[versed osprey]

if i wanted to kill prio adds

id go sub

[fleet whale]

assassin fantasy

[versed osprey]

but i dont give a fuck about that i wanna tunnel 1 target

[balmy condor]

new venthyr ability:

1. hit button
2. do normal opener
3. hit button again
4. PROFIT

and everyone losing their fucking mind

[low girder]

Flagellating Razor Coral

[versed osprey]

HYPE

[balmy condor]

yeah

honestly though

its just coral

[versed osprey]

coral was fun af

[balmy condor]

coral was toxic

[versed osprey]

you dont have to go venthyr

there are 3 other covenants

i like flag

[balmy condor]

you mean 2 other covenants

[versed osprey]

ofc i wont go venthyr while serated bonespine is in the game

but i like it

[balmy condor]

there's spike boys, "why did my combat drop" boys, razor coral boys

and the one that must not be named

those are our choices

[cursive dagger]

@vestal wren did you see the bug that undad posted yesterday where casting slice and dice in stealth with subterfuge talented pulls you out of stealth? I don't see it on the github and he doesn't have a github account to upload it

[versed osprey]

well

i found strange things with stealth in the past

[vestal wren]

no, did not see that

[versed osprey]

me and friend tested spite in 8.3

and if you are combat

spite gets you out of stealth

if you are assa it doesnt

[low girder]

i tried it on ptr and it doesn't pull you out

idk if it's a beta only thing

[cursive dagger]

@vestal wren yeah it is strictly with assassination and subterfuge has to be talented. doesn't happen as sublety

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor imagine not simping Angels

shaking my smh

[vestal wren]

thanks, ill ask koji/mystler to test

[surreal solar]

well, that just killed my chances of going Venthyr

[versed osprey]

bone spike nerf when ?

[surreal solar]

they shouldve reworked that one covenant, venthyr was fine, just needed numbers adjust

[grizzled jay]

I don't think Slaughter was fine. Just a worse designed Condemn. Not unique and not strong outside of abusing Conduit scaling.

This is at least unique, thematic, etc.

[versed osprey]

i agree

[forest garden]

Leaving numbers aside for a moment, this ability seems more fun

But I liked razor coral so shrug

[urban gale]

Vein ripper seems like a cool effect

And flagellation seems way less boring than slaughter disregarding tuning

[quaint sequoia]

did they fix character copy with this build?

[balmy condor]

was unaware that it was broken

[quaint sequoia]

Haven't worked since I got beta last saturday

but yes its fixed now

[quaint sequoia]

flag, not in beta yet?

[balmy condor]

should be

spell got mined

[topaz axle]

flog wasn't in when I checked 20mins ago

[torpid anchor]

not in

[balmy condor]

so its in the code

and not in the game

gg blizz

[torpid anchor]

its there but not implemented

[balmy condor]

ye

[grizzled jay]

the Covenant Table is just not pointing to the right ability

[opaque grotto]

Let us go deeper

[fleet whale]

i don't know how to do it 😦

[balmy condor]

boomer

[fleet whale]

🏳️

the emoji for the new ability

[fleet whale]

apparently Flag has a self buff

and you will still lash if you hit another target

[normal olive]

[fleet whale]

if that's the case

[balmy condor]

seems okay

[fleet whale]

than we won't be as hard locked on a target