assassination

[sand otter]

pandemic range?

[balmy condor]

you can refresh dots when they have 30% or less time remaining

[low girder]

under 30% of the duration, so < 5.4s on garrote

[balmy condor]

the time is calculated according to the new dot

[sand otter]

ahh i do that

i use a WA

[balmy condor]

little confusing

but the super easy version is you can safely refresh rupture and garrote <5 seconds

[low girder]

yeah for garrote it's easier since it doesn't change

[sand otter]

you two have a second i could show my interface via discord

[balmy condor]

sure

but the interface is just preference

[sand otter]

SHUSH

its pretty

[balmy condor]

as long as you're tracking bleeds and cds

tis w/e

[low girder]

but yeah in that specific instance you overwrote the subterfuge empowered with a regular

big no no

[sand otter]

am live

[low girder]

if vanish is up you refresh within pandemic, if not let it fall off

[balmy condor]

just send screenshot

[sand otter]

ooooooooooo

WA is only on during combat

xd

sec

[balmy condor]

ye

looks kinda clicker on those keybinds

[low girder]

when you did use the vanish later you did gar - garr - env - garr

so you lost the entire empowered garrote

[sand otter]

ooo

i thought i was suppsoed to gar spam on every vanish

Guess i dont even know my own rotation lmao

[balmy condor]

you only vanish garrote for subterfuge

[sand otter]

ooooooooooooooooooo

im so stupid

[balmy condor]

so if you're vanishing in the middle of combat, you have garrote already up

so you just need 1 garrote

[sand otter]

So only vanish gar when subter is up

gotcha

[balmy condor]

well

kinda

without SS yes

[low girder]

yeah it'll change later

tbh my immediate reaction to the opener was wait wtf one garrote

because i have the memory of a goldfish

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

but yeah those are the immediate things

[rancid bobcat]

what'd i miss

did everyone go honed mind 3 still

i havent played wow for a month

[balmy condor]

we're all going full versa

[rancid bobcat]

ok but unironically what is it

[balmy condor]

yes

hm3

[rancid bobcat]

ok

man i gotta do another socket

[sand otter]

ok so

garr, rupture, vanish garrote CDs and rotation?

[balmy condor]

no

[sand otter]

;.; im so bad

[balmy condor]

you hold vanish until the first garrote drops

if you just vanish right after

[low girder]

well this one you can do in pandemic can't you

[balmy condor]

yeah

you could

[low girder]

because no exsang

[sand otter]

ok lets give this a go

[balmy condor]

why is it there out of all places

but yeah, seems fine

I would usually recommend numbers on the icons

so you can actually plan ahead

but

its okay

[sand otter]

yeah that makse sense

i was just using the recommended one

numbers would be a lot easier

[balmy condor]

@fallow otter did you get more than 70,660

[low girder]

i think he doesn't pay at all so he's prolly in queue

[balmy condor]

oof

[sand otter]

i normally dont but i splurged and paid for a month so i could get better.

[balmy condor]

ye

or you just have clowns like me sim

cause I live in this channel

[low girder]

lmao

i upped to the middle one when corruption vendor happened

[balmy condor]

max or nothing

only the biggest sims

my guild is pretty casual

so I have to sim a lot for them as well

so I just bought the big boi

:)

[low girder]

true

hopefully soulbinds don't make the iterations insane

[balmy condor]

hopefully seriallos daddy notices me

and gives me all the iterations

[low girder]

lol

[fallow otter]

Work getting in the way of more attempts but no

Same result

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

I guess this means it's a draw (not really) coz i didnt sim mastery nav

Lol

[balmy condor]

close enough

[fallow otter]

hopefully soulbinds don't make the iterations insane
@low girder we dropping essences and corruptions and will have zero gem slots amirite

Proc gems slots I guess

But add food, oils oh dear

Legends

[balmy condor]

ye but that's a casual advanced sim

top gears should in theory be easier

[low girder]

just depends on the soulbinds

which i guess there aren't too many options, just like azerite

[balmy condor]

and the paths seem more obvious

if potency conduit, take

[low girder]

unless you're sin

D:

[balmy condor]

unlucky D:

[normal olive]

i'll just bother whispyr to sim my shit

[fallow otter]

Trading opener tips?

[balmy condor]

without the opener

[fallow otter]

We opening that can of worms?

[brazen perch]

[fallow otter]

Worms mouth is opened

[normal olive]

You guys want some openers?

[grizzled jay]

if it's not Garrote Ambush Ambush count me out

[normal olive]

i'm talking about bfa

i don't have beta

[low girder]

same

[normal olive]

I want prepatch now

gotta work on new openers

[karmic zenith]

Hey, R3 Exp up, should I go 8x exp3 + 1x exp1 to keep corruption level under 40? Or is there another combination?

[balmy condor]

seems fine

might get a bigger up with some combo of 7x and a HM3 or something

[karmic zenith]

Pmuch I just do M+ now, dont have the gearset for crit build there

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[karmic zenith]

Ok, thanks

[balmy condor]

crit build is a lot of fun

[fallow otter]

For sin slappers*

[icy ember]

!sl

[prisma monolith]

Shadowlands release: 47 days 16 hours 33 minutes 42 seconds

[normal olive]

u wot

[subtle drift]

My Details isn't working with the new version

Anyone got the same problem?

[balmy condor]

did you download a beta branch

[subtle drift]

Something something alpha

[normal olive]

Branch? Tree? This is a rogue discord not druid

[subtle drift]

I updatet with the twitch client

But it's working again.

[balmy condor]

twitch client is bad at staying on the live version

if a dev pushes a beta branch

twitch loves putting it on top

gotta be careful now with expac rolling around soon

[subtle drift]

Yeah, i disabled auto update.

[rancid beacon]

Do I use versatility trinket or agility trinket in pvp if neither have on-use effects, assuming trinkets are about the same ilvl?

[balmy condor]

probably vers

ask the #pvp nerds

they probably know better

[crimson palm]

hi what is best covenant

[balmy condor]

aldor

[low girder]

mawwalkers

[rocky ruin]

@crimson palm that does the most dmg

[crimson palm]

no

[balmy condor]

hemo only plays for the visuals

[rose violet]

What’s the best race for pet battles

[balmy condor]

transmog is biggest dps gain

[low girder]

panda or vulpera 'cause you can battle yourself

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

uh oh dad showed up, everyone scram

[low girder]

[mossy star]

Nothing change for Assa in SL ? Except SnD ?

[balmy condor]

toxic blade into alacrity

blindside - ambush

shiv returning baseline, weaker tb on it

numbing poison I guess too

if you care about that

[mossy star]

Toxic balade = shiv, alacrity is passive

[balmy condor]

alacrity is talent

[mossy star]

Good for blinside, liké thé talent

[balmy condor]

but you'll take it basically all expansion so get used to it XD

[mossy star]

But passive

[balmy condor]

ye

[mossy star]

We Can Do nothing in nfae form ?

Cant use skill ?

[low girder]

yeah it silences you

[mossy star]

😭

[balmy condor]

does that for everyone

[low girder]

cancels when you hit i think

[balmy condor]

you don't pick nightfae for the form though

that's just flavor on top of what you're getting

[low girder]

so i guess it's not a silence really

[mossy star]

After the patch tonight, Angel rogue will be a thing 😎

[low girder]

i wouldn't hold my breath

[balmy condor]

the fk is an angel rogue

and why would there be a patch on a wednesday

[low girder]

kyrian i think

beta patches are generally wed, assumed that's what he was talking about

even if that does happen, things will change again before live

[balmy condor]

idk I'm confused either way

[mossy star]

Correct Mata 😇

[low girder]

would need a comically large buff or a redesign for that to happen

[strange python]

still wouldn't pick it though, even if heavily nerfed SBS utility is superior imo
though i do hope they will buff/improve Slaughter, i'd like to go Venthyr

[balmy condor]

the conduit is crazy

seems like it would be fine

[mossy star]

Make blinside works with slaughter and we are good

[balmy condor]

we know it does

[mossy star]

Already ?

[balmy condor]

that's what I heard ye

its listed in wowhead to be modified by blindside as well

yeah did a little bit of digging to confirm

does indeed work with blindside

[rose violet]

All good then

No worries

[balmy condor]

I really enjoy slaughter as well

So I’m looking forward to it

Not as m+ competitive as bone spike atm sadly

But I’m not too mad

Those are my two choices

[strange python]

Mine too, and yes it does work with blindside, i tested it myself
It's a shame though, that in order for it to be at least somewhat interactive with the spec, you have to pick a specific talent.
Otherwise it's just press-once-in-5-min-and-forget abliity

[balmy condor]

Blindside is the go to single target anyway atm

[rose violet]

Vanish is 2 minutes

[balmy condor]

So idc too much

[shrewd night]

Weebstyr will be unbeatable on shadhar

[balmy condor]

Big facts

I have the power of god and anime on my side

[steady hearth]

hello

[balmy condor]

[sand heath]

quick q - how / or when in the rotation would you use crimson tempest within single target? (I know you need the right level of haste to make it worthwhile) just dont see how you use it in the rotation

[balmy condor]

Use it over envenom

But less priority than rupture

Maintain as much as you can

Don’t force it into exsang

[sand heath]

thanks - that answers my question as I was like "how to balance it with envenom and CP's usage" thank you

[balmy condor]

Anytime :)

[wooden sparrow]

I haven't played my rogue on a while. I'm kev 116 in looms and feel like I barely take two jobs at once. Am I doing something wrong or am I just that much weaker without the azerite. I'm using cheap shot and kidney shot for survivability. I don't really like outlaw but I can go e it a shot if I'm not gonna die

[balmy condor]

Azerite helps a good amount

Also your neck if you’ve opted to not use that

What talents you taking

[young vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kAG3cTr4Djhm1fp3TnU7qL well idk if i can get more this tier, dont really have patience to farm these 2 sockets and 1 T3 expedient but i think thats a nice sim

now i got 2 weeks to smash some nice mythic logs on reclears

@tropic ocean should i socket 2x crit with 31% crit 90% haste?

[balmy condor]

Could sim your sockets

Could sim your sockets

[young vessel]

u know but im talking more about nzoth where i guess i could use more crit due to lots of envenoms

[wooden sparrow]

@balmy condor thanks it's the looms they have WAY less stamina than azerite pieces

[balmy condor]

Yuh

[strange python]

124k dick, wp

[vast forum]

@young vessel why would n'zoth have more envenoms ?

[young vessel]

@vast forum on big dps groups theres sometimes less time to dot up tenties etc so its better to envenom them

[hollow ether]

Yeah psychus 1 is mostly envenom with my raid. We have 3 hunters so the tendies drop pretty quick

[crimson palm]

[uncut cave]

How /when to use galecallers boon in opening rotation?

[vast forum]

rupture does more dmg than an envenom in <4 seconds @young vessel

so if anything lives over 4 sec it's better to rupture it, and if it doesn't, then the damage you do to that thing doesn't really matter and you should focus on boss dps, which, due to downtimes has fewer envenoms than a proper patchwerk fight

[balmy condor]

@uncut cave you can cast it with vendetta, just make sure you’re standing in it when you hit exsang, as Exsang snapshots haste

[vast forum]

with vend or with first garrote

as early as possible anyway, since it will clip your first exsang anyway

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean ideally you would cast on pull

[onyx crane]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mFoZ945KV2wrGY7d3vhEXT can I improve over this ?

[balmy condor]

while staying sub 40?

[onyx crane]

yes

[honest vessel]

more sockets

[balmy condor]

yeah

[honest vessel]

485 weapons

[balmy condor]

that's the obvious answer

[onyx crane]

I haven't killed carapace

so yeh

[balmy condor]

realistically, I'm assuming you don't have access to 485 daggers and more sockets

I don't see anything

the severe is a bit weird

[onyx crane]

yeah I can replace that I think

[honest vessel]

gushing as well no?

[balmy condor]

the gushing is probaby best in there

for sub 40

its on a 475

so its pretty strong

[honest vessel]

sure

maybe try focused void minor

whatever its called the one that gives haste

[balmy condor]

not gonna beat iris on a CLF setup

[honest vessel]

you dont think it'd be better than blood?

[balmy condor]

oh definitely not blood

if anything it would replace iris

[honest vessel]

fair enough

[onyx crane]

I'm too clumsy to deal with TfB

[balmy condor]

you just eat it 95% of the time tbh

like I only really care about when there's like 2-3 spawns back to back and I have to legendary or cloak

sometimes I blind them

but usually I can't be asked

cause I'm omega lazy

[onyx crane]

I reall wish I had cara daggers x2

I do have double slapper but can't play outlaw lol

[balmy condor]

don't we all :P

there's a guy that's semi-regular in here

who killed and bonus rolled 9 times in a row

and hasn't seen a dagger

[onyx crane]

I got 2x slapper on a single kill

[balmy condor]

lmao

classic

[onyx crane]

dh got miffed

so since it was os for me I rolled one of them then few weeks later got another

never saw DH roll that quick

[royal lantern]

you dont talk about me whispr right?

cus it only took me 6kills for 1 dagger

[balmy condor]

no

some blue named guy

comes in here and complains every wednesday that he's not getting a dagger

and then lurks again until the next week

I assume we'll see him later tonight

[strange python]

I didnt get the dagger btw

Weebspyr cursed me

[void pecan]

Killed carapace once. Got dagger and chest 🙂

[jaunty crystal]

someone ban this guy ^

[jolly comet]

begone

[jaunty crystal]

jokes aside that must have felt really good lol

[balmy condor]

@strange python

I curse your family

[strange python]

Wow

so rude

SOme venom rush sims might cheer you up? 😄

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

give me that legion venom rush sim

[strange python]

I didnt play in legion 😦

[patent topaz]

11 kills 1 dagger

begone shit raid

[jolly comet]

you missed out

[strange python]

I started in this shit xpac

EP was my first raid

I think i missed out on a lot tbh

[jolly comet]

im def gonna miss Shrouded Suff in M+

[void pecan]

If it makes you feel any better, hard stuck on nzoth.

[strange python]

My last guild disbanded on n'zoth :/

[void pecan]

Just started getting through psycus 2 last night

cuz, that group is smooth brain.

[strange python]

Atleast I got cara dagger, chest and boots traded on second kill 🙂

[void pecan]

[strange python]

looted dagger OFC

[pulsar atlas]

can anyone with beta access comment on the general gameplay now that SnD has been added, is it less fun now that we have another thing to manage/less envenoms?

just wanna see more opinions

[balmy condor]

snd lasts for like 45 seconds

you just kinda hit it

imo, better than hitting CT single target every 10 seconds

the main complaint is that its a boring button press

[pulsar atlas]

ah, so u dont think its that bad then

[balmy condor]

but if that's less fun, that's up to the player

[pulsar atlas]

yeye gotcha

[balmy condor]

I personally have always enjoyed snd

but I'm one of the few :P

it does a ton of damage

like numbers wise, its very good

just boring

[pulsar atlas]

i was watching infectious gaming play and he had a shit ton of timers on the screen, just looked daunting

but i assume u get used to it

[void pecan]

infectious

[balmy condor]

good old infexious ROGUE GUIDES

sorry, let me edit that

[pulsar atlas]

lol

[balmy condor]

was lowkey wondering what happened to that guy after he got blasted for his bleed video

[surreal solar]

i like SND, but that was when Outlaw was Combat, and honestly, RtB is dumb, i just want Sin to have a real benefit outside of "you do slightly more dmg".

[normal olive]

You stab faster

[frigid kestrel]

SnD is Meh, I barely notice it. It doesn’t make the bleed management harder at all it’s just.......... there

[manic harness]

I used to dislike it until I started playing CT build a lot

Now it's the same as keeping CT up but it lasts longer, so it's not as annoying

[frigid kestrel]

^ This

[pulsar atlas]

whats CT?

[balmy condor]

crimson tempest

[pulsar atlas]

kk

[vestal wren]

i like that talent row in sl:

[balmy condor]

yeah but MFD

[vestal wren]

is the apm to high with mfd?

[low girder]

[vestal wren]

sry, but i had to make that joke

[balmy condor]

way too high

[royal lantern]

my smol sin brain cant handle apm above 37 fuu

sorry

dont bully

[surreal solar]

really? i hate mfd.... i guess it makes sense tho, things die swift enough

[subtle drift]

I don't like Venthyr to be the third choice

[surreal solar]

it's because we're not sure how deep we can get the conduit rank b4 raid pops open i believe

venthyr's depends on the conduit

[balmy condor]

correct

venthyr looks really strong at rank 15 conduit

but if rank 15 is 9 months into the expansion

kinda rip

[iron valve]

kinda just means we'll go necro and then swap to venthyr later

[balmy condor]

yeah seems pretty likely atm

[near pilot]

were those talent builds made with only 1 conduit? we wont be having full trees for like 14 weeks

[balmy condor]

but blizz did specifically call out bone spike and kyrian in that blue post

so we're in for a ride

fuu simmed a bunch of variations I thikn

can ask him probably, I'm not sure

@vestal wren

[vestal wren]

whats the question?

[low girder]

Echoing Reprimand now behaves as if using a 9CP finisher

[balmy condor]

what conduit/soulbind ranks did you use to determine the builds in pins

[vestal wren]

i did try if certain conduits/legendary powers have a significant impact but haven't found that to be relevant

its possible i missed a interaction

[loud light]

have you checked for example kyrian + pelagos traits vs bone spike + emeni (or whatever) or are soulbinds mostly unexplored

[balmy condor]

well yeah but night fae rank 0 vs venthyr rank 0 is different than night fae rank 10 vs venthyr rank 10 right

slaughter seems to scale hardest from the conduit out of all of them

[vestal wren]

MA legendary
Rank 15 in the associated covenant conduit.
5 min single target

[balmy condor]

I see I see

thanks fuu :)

[vestal wren]

it probably also shows why venthyr is only "mediocor" (in the covenant spreadsheet)

as even with rank 15 what makes it insanely strong its not on par with night fae on single target

[balmy condor]

sin stealth reliance

[surreal solar]

what if you used zoldyck?

im sure the disparity would only get wider

but i thought it was also usable via blindside procs

[balmy condor]

well that accounts for blindside

[surreal solar]

oof

[balmy condor]

cause blindside is the go-to single target regardless of covenant

[void pecan]

WTB number tuning

[near swan]

is it worth keeping the TA 2's on black shards? or would i get more value from swapping one/both with expedient?

[balmy condor]

you'd want to replace them yeah

can sim to see the difference

[near swan]

thanks :]

[fleet whale]

well if the blue post is anything to go by

there is going to be some rogue covenant tuning

[low girder]

question is, do they bugfix bonespike before tuning a nerf for it

or do they just slap both in

[normal olive]

wait blue post? what did i miss?

[low girder]

in the shadowlands update ion called out the difference between kyrian and necro rogues

[normal olive]

got a link?

[low girder]

'If you really want to go Kyrian on your rogue, but can’t justify it because every guide currently says that the Necrolords’ Serrated Bone Spike is too good to pass up, or if an otherwise appealing covenant has benefits that seem irrelevant in PvP, those are exactly the sorts of imbalance we want to fix, and your feedback is essential to that process.'

how do i remove preview

in discord

[normal olive]

you can just dm me

[low girder]

is it -

oh true

[fleet whale]

i wonder if blizz made draka a rogue in SL

cause they knew SBS was going to be the best

[crimson palm]

looks that way kekw

[low girder]

lol

[fleet whale]

well, if the blue post is anything to go by

it might be getting looked at

[normal olive]

She is a warrior rogue

[fleet whale]

so outlaw

[normal olive]

class combos when blizz

nah outlaw is just a gambling addicted wannabe pirate

[low girder]

they could just buff the shit out of kyrian

in some way

idk

depends how impactful they want the abilities to be

(assuming they bugfix spike)

[crimson palm]

she was doing the navi openers while practicing her rogue skills

that's why she died

[low girder]

wow

[hollow ether]

i don't like the design around kyrian regardless of numbers

[normal olive]

i feel attacked by Hemo

[crimson palm]

[amber quail]

dunno why not fix ventyr for sin instead to nerf necro XD

[normal olive]

Because necro is just straight up better then everything?

not just better then venthyr

[amber quail]

or cause other arre toooooooo bad?

venty still bad on sin

[marble fjord]

when youre playing boner spike boi on ST

do you just mash all your charges on cooldown?

[balmy condor]

it becomes a generator

yes

[marble fjord]

okay thats nice enough i guess

[amber quail]

bone is good, this is under the eyes of everyone....don't change this fact that ventyr is useless for sin cause overlap 2 abilities...or not?

4 covenant: 1 good AF-1 viable-1 meh-1 useless

[magic walrus]

More than that slaughter is just a very boring design

[balmy condor]

you what

[normal olive]

Venthyr is almost as good as night fae tho?

[amber quail]

i think that a good designer make 4 viable

I M H O

this is what i don't understand: why don't use beta suggestion to tune the core expansion(covenant) for all 3 specs of the classes

[balmy condor]

blizzard hasn't listened to, or acted on feedback from beta in multiple expansions

that's nothing new

[low girder]

slaughter is still good later

[fleet whale]

bfa was a prime example of that

[low girder]

just not early

[normal olive]

Blizzard listened to me and gave me good loot

[fleet whale]

good loot

i guess better late than never

[normal olive]

Blizzard will also listen to me and make my tank shaman viable

[balmy condor]

nice meme

[slim wagon]

shhhh. dont tell em

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor tbh,i wouldnt say that cus they listend too a shitton of feedback this alpha and beta

[balmy condor]

did they tho

they removed gcds and changed spriest

[royal lantern]

yes they did

[normal olive]

They also changed Enchanment Shaman

[royal lantern]

nah like

multiple changes too specs like unholy with long windups on pull

[low girder]

they listen to those, things that are actively against their design intentions aren't gonna change

and i don't think they should be expected to

doesn't mean you can't tell them you disagree though

[royal lantern]

nah,but you cant say that they dont listen too feedback

cus they did

[balmy condor]

on some small things

sure

but not big picture

[low girder]

big picture is too late to change even by the time it hits beta

ripcord is for a later patch, not now

if it happens

they did soften the blow a bit with how little effort it is to change though, it's just timegated

which is what they want in the end

[balmy condor]

were we expecting it to be a lot of effort?

[low girder]

when they talked about it being like switching from aldor to scryer, yeah

[balmy condor]

I was under the impression that it was always going to be blizzard timegating

[low girder]

i was expecting a grind

[surreal solar]

Instead it’s just 2 weekly quests

[low girder]

i still hate it, but that's a design thing and not an effort thing

and they're not gonna back down on that until they see it live

much like original azerite

[surreal solar]

I just hope it’s not a wild shift, having all SS and then them nerfing SS into the ground as Uldir was going was a bit annoying

[royal lantern]

tbf

SS was frking insane and needed a nerf lol

like, that trait was not ok lol

[manic harness]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rZ2LYaiKTgNfSijWrSWurB

The dream, boys, finally

[crimson palm]

dream?

[balmy condor]

What dream

Full sockets?

[manic harness]

daggers lol

Didn't think I'd ever get one

much less both

[balmy condor]

Oh

Big gz

[manic harness]

😄

[distant steeple]

Grats luna!

[sullen robin]

You guys think panda will be best for sin rogue early SL unless they nerf racial?

[low girder]

no, the sims are either based on a bugged feast item or a false tooltip, i don't remember the details

pandas will be in line with anything else

[fallow otter]

Tooltip, feast actually gives you 15agi iirc

[sullen robin]

ahh so its shit

[low girder]

wouldn't call it shit, the racials are minimal impact anyway

[fallow otter]

Crit food for example gives you 52crit

[balmy condor]

yeah racials are big whatever

panda has never been good though

in comparison to like the "best"

[fallow otter]

Panda best

Coz /sleep

[low girder]

yeah they're never "bis" but they're never really last either

even so, difference between best and worse race is what, like .7% or something

minimal, pick whatever you like. the panda thing won't be accurate.

[balmy condor]

in shadowland yes

[low girder]

yeah right now they're a little weird

[runic kiln]

tips for parsing on nzoth if i have to CD on psychus 1?

[fallow otter]

Mythic?

[runic kiln]

ye

[fallow otter]

Get someone else to cd it :)

So atm you are vend vanish at like 6 stacks it something as soon as it comes off cd?

[subtle drift]

So no bone spike nerfs in this build i guess

[balmy condor]

next week ;)

[subtle drift]

yeah

[uncut dragon]

Hey guys. I play mostly assassination in a raiding>M+>>PVP guild

Do I need to think about switching specs for shadowlands?

[balmy condor]

probably not

it'll be fine as sin

[uncut dragon]

Just worried about AOE for M+ witout shrouded suffocation and echoing blades

[balmy condor]

yeah sin blows in m+ without those

bone spike carries atm

[uncut dragon]

Is Sub any better at AOE in shadowlands? Same weapons at least, just a new rotation...

[balmy condor]

yeah sub has shadow vault

[fallow otter]

Sub aoe is great atm

[uncut dragon]

Is there ST good enough for raiding? Assassination has so many dots its easy to pull off and do a mechanic while you're still 'dpsing'

[fallow otter]

It's broken good atm

[balmy condor]

sub single target is higher than sin

[fallow otter]

But it should get tuned down, quite a bit imo

[balmy condor]

sin relies a lot on poison applications as well

so you can't just full afk dots and just chill

[uncut dragon]

sure, but it does let you run out and do an interrupt or something if the mages are all tunneling the boss and bitching about dps loss if they have to blink.

[fallow otter]

It's only gar

Sub has rupture now

[balmy condor]

^

[subtle drift]

Doesn't it have rupture anyway atm?

Just another name?

[uncut dragon]

maybe sub this expansion then. Always found its rotation a bit more brittle than assassination.

[subtle drift]

Or did they remove it with BFA?

[fallow otter]

Nb

[subtle drift]

Yeah

Wait for tuning Sy

[uncut dragon]

I know. Just impatient. And don't want to suck out of the gate, you know.

[fallow otter]

Pick the class not the spec atm imo, no one knows what's going to be infront

[steep plover]

I got my 3rd eb piece last week but i feel like my dps is worse off, like the little gain in aoe isnt as much as the drop in st dps

Even tho it doesnt really matter tbh since expac is over but im just interested

[balmy condor]

you're also playing on a tyran week

[subtle drift]

With my haste build i have 6k+ more ST dmg without 2 EB

Dungeonslice only sims -900 when i take DD/NP instead of 2 EB

So easy decision

[uncut dragon]

Shame you can't swap gear in m+

[subtle drift]

Nah it's good

I don't want to farm 100 different sets

[steep plover]

you're also playing on a tyran week
@balmy condor even last week it felt yuck idk why

[uncut dragon]

you just need 2-one for ST, one for MT . Not that bad.

[steep plover]

Maybe im jjst used to the stats from hod

[errant delta]

Hay anyone heard anything about the pickpocket crimson vile thing yet?

[balmy condor]

not implemented

seems to be not happening

[fallow otter]

It seems people are pretty excited for this

[signal summit]

Does it look like pve and pvp have same covenant atm on beta ?

[balmy condor]

probably not

venthyr pvp

[signal summit]

And necro pve or?

[balmy condor]

ye

[signal summit]

Damn the ventyr gear looks insane tbh

[cunning blaze]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[subtle drift]

Everything says Venthyr to me. and the majority of players i think

So they need other covenants more attractive with better abilitys

[normal olive]

Night Fae

[vestal dune]

I don't want to be a moth rogue 😦

[normal olive]

Moth?

Furry bois!

[vestal dune]

The night fae with wings are just big moths

[subtle drift]

Does anyone of these Weakaura have an indicator for Bleeds that shouldn't be refreshed?

[balmy condor]

mizeroks

I'm pretty sure

[subtle drift]

I get this though

[balmy condor]

okay?

what about it

[subtle drift]

Is that pointless?

Or nothing to worry?

DOn't really use WAs

[balmy condor]

yeah that's not a problem

[subtle drift]

Thank you

[balmy condor]

the code review stuff is basically meaningless

like it just complains about shit because it's not omega optimized

or it doesn't like that its being used every frame

stuff like that

[subtle drift]

It doesn't show empored rupture sadly.

So that it changes after you press Exsang

[balmy condor]

sigh

I'll dm you

hold on

[normal olive]

Whispyr WA?

[balmy condor]

I guess so

[quartz marlin]

Is using pawn good for checking what gear is better

I’ve been told many different things

[balmy condor]

no

pawn should be uninstalled

[quartz marlin]

😩😩😩

How should I check?

[balmy condor]

top gear simming

[quartz marlin]

English please for a casual

[balmy condor]

get simulationcraft addon

go into game, type /simc

copy paste into here

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear

select items

[quartz marlin]

I’ve been playing for a good 4 months

[balmy condor]

hit sim

profit

[normal olive]

I have it installed and haven't looked at it in like 6 years

[balmy condor]

oh or if you prefer a long form explanation

https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

this is pretty good

problem is it reads like a novel and goes pretty detailed on things that imo, don't need that much detail

[brazen beacon]

We don't deserve Whispyr.

[normal olive]

You haven't heard his gachi music yet

[balmy condor]

And you won’t

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

But thank you @brazen beacon im glad I make a difference

[verbal mantle]

Not all heroes wear capes.

[balmy condor]

To be fair, most cape mogs are awful

[verbal mantle]

cape.png

all. the. time.

[shrewd night]

I got two compliments for my mog in raid yesterday

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

Koffing fly as a bitch

[shrewd night]

[fallow otter]

Backpack 💯 💯

[visual juniper]

yo guys any place i can read up the covenant choices for sin?

[woven gull]

Hey guys, was just wondering how to manage downtime as a sin rogue? Is it a case of using up all of your energy and then waiting another 5 seconds to use another ‘mutilate x2, envenom’ combo, or do you need to stagger your attacks a little? Thanks in advance 🙂

[fallow otter]

been a long time since i wasnt global locked

[vestal dune]

With elaborate planning I believe you want to do pool windows

So you get as many things as possible inside the buff

[crimson palm]

easiest way to play is to cast your spells just as you're about to cap energy

[woven gull]

Awesome thank you. Also, should I be using vendetta on CD or save it for bosses?

[cosmic forum]

Hey something I don't see in teh bug tracker that I can reproduce consistently is if you have leeching poison talent, with the poison up, slaughter may or may not replace Deadly/instant, and it will also allow leeching poison to stay, however once slaughter falls off or you remove it, leeching poison buff goes away as well.

Or am I missing it somewhere in the tracker?

[strange python]

Yeah, leeching poison falls off when Slaughter expires or the buff is right-clicked away.
But Slaughter also applies it automatically when you use it and have the talent (deadly poison too), so you pretty much never have to worry about poisons

Unless you need to apply crippling / numbing

[heady coral]

Is poison bomb really garbage

[strange python]

Depends on how they tune it.
During my last test, it did only 1,8% of my dmg on single target (5min combat)

[steel ridge]

Carapace, which side in P2 favors sin?

or is it whatever?

[crimson palm]

right

[steel ridge]

reason being?

cause my RL just put both of us rogues into left group, with all melees

so if thats bullshit, i might wanna improve that situation

[surreal solar]

if you were outlaw, suuuuuuuure but sin isnt the cleave spec

[crimson palm]

you get a 3x stack vs 2x +1 on the left

if ur on progress it doesnt matter

[steel ridge]

yeah we are running against a wall anyway

[balmy condor]

Hello why is celery the best legendary I thought it’s outlaw legendary

[lean marten]

pb + celery mmm

[steel ridge]

poison bomb?

[balmy condor]

Peanut butter you heathen

[surreal solar]

peanut butter

[steel ridge]

wtf

is it a problem to use CT in P2, do i trigger cyst immunity?

[fleet ginkgo]

is assassination decent for shadowlands ?

[balmy condor]

Raids ye

M+ is looking kinda bad

[fleet ginkgo]

ohhhh

and what about subtlety only good for pvp?

[balmy condor]

Sub is looking to be the meta spec

[fleet ginkgo]

oh nice i never played sub before

[balmy condor]

Outlaw is most likely still the m+ spec

But sub is looking okay

[fleet ginkgo]

i might tyr to get into pvp this expansion

[balmy condor]

Pvp it’s gonna be sub probably

Since it now also gets wound poison

[peak bobcat]

Assas always looks bad at the beginning of xpac.

it scales extremely well with stats

[balmy condor]

That’s kinda feelycraft bait though

[fleet whale]

it doesn't really scale that amazingly with stats

[steel ridge]

well it should have an edge on specs that rely heavily on 1 particular stat

cause sin makes good use of every secondary stat

[balmy condor]

That’s also not how that works

[steel ridge]

with the DRs in place

[balmy condor]

The dr’s aren’t going to realistically change anything from what we’ve seen

[fleet whale]

Sin will still be very good in raiding

[balmy condor]

The dr’s only really matter at super high stat values

The reason people always say “sin scales well” is because it’s the spec that gets faster and faster as the expansion goes on

It’s basically placebo as far as I’m concerned

[steel ridge]

yeah kinda

[fleet whale]

It's also only been a thing for the last two expansions

People on RH always bring up that assassination has always been good... when through cata to wod, more often than not it was a below average spec

[balmy condor]

True

[strange python]

it's basically a continuous switch from careful pooling and envenom windows at start of an expac (fun!) to an energy_what_lol ability spam

[fleet whale]

other than now

[balmy condor]

That was literally only this expansion

[fleet whale]

assassination has never been spammy

antorus assassin was 40 apm

[balmy condor]

Not even this expansion

Just this patch

[fleet whale]

HFC i would imagine was probably around 40-45

MoP the same

before expedient i think the sim for me was like 43ish

[strange python]

i take your word for it, i took 2 longer breaks during last 2 expansions, so i missed some stuff

[balmy condor]

I kind of find it interesting how community perception of a spec evolves into stuff like this

[fleet whale]

community perception generally only thinks of things currently

[balmy condor]

Yeah but even outside of it

[strange python]

I think if you continuously play, without missing a patch, you see the spec evolve (or rather devolve). When someone returns from a break, their view might be skewed, despite being a long time rogue player
I think i might be an example in this case

[fleet whale]

might be old news but they fixed the envenom bug on the ptr

[outer lotus]

guyssss do i need 1% more crit?

[balmy condor]

100%

[fleet whale]

i wonder what the clickbait cap will be in SL

i think it's going to be

25% haste/25% crit/35% mastery

[balmy condor]

If you take MA, it gives 50% crit for 3 seconds, so that’s a total of 150% crit, which means if you need that 1% crit, you would hold vanish for that 150 second lineup

[fleet whale]

that will be the feelscraft cap in sl

[outer lotus]

i think you should go for 100% of every stat

that seems pretty good

[proper sage]

dont forget about resilience

gotta get that 13% breakpoint

[honest vessel]

how much hit should we get?

[balmy condor]

Level your dagger skills guys

[serene shell]

does slaughter work like poison? aka it benefits from poison legendaries and talents/shiv?

[balmy condor]

yes

[south dust]

I'm new to the discord, i'm trying to find what the best opener is for single target boss fights ( with plum trink ). Am unsure about where i would go to check it out.

[strange python]

whats your haste

do you have 3x shrouded suffocation

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P4P8-aurZoiuvb5NzCwJ4X5A8NGhpzh1ZPkFiKluvkY/edit?usp=sharing

Should I roll a new main in SL?

Or are rogues okay yet

[balmy condor]

They’re fine

Always have been fine

[strange python]

ok whispyr as long as you tell me it's okay i believe you

[honest vessel]

might as well swap to survival now and just commit

[frigid kestrel]

I don’t think I can enjoy any other class in game except rogue

[strange python]

same but still

[south dust]

@strange python 31% crit, 75% haste (no buffs), 33% mastery, 5% vers

[strange python]

75% haste and you're asking about openers?!

[south dust]

and 3 t1 shourds

shrouds

i mean, i am because i was arguing with the other rogue in guild

because we do it differently

[frigid kestrel]

Yes @south dust check pins

Your set up for the bleed build

[strange python]

gar - rup - gar - ven/plum macro - mut - rupture - exsang - bote

there's another opener that gives slightly more dps with CT

but that's generally it

[patent topaz]

you ct if you get 5 cp after first muti

but its minor

and I dont do it personally

[frigid kestrel]

Opener with Crimson Tempest
Condensed Life-Force (if chosen, 2sec before pull, best variant) > Stealth > Potion > Garrote > Rupture > Garrote > Condensed Life-Force (safer variant) > Vendetta > Mutilate > ...

If after mutilate 5cp: ***

Crimson Tempest - Mutilate (6cp) > Rupture > Exsanguinate > Blood of the Enemy (if chosen) > Mutilate until 5+ cp / Envenom (until the empowered garrotte runs out) > Vanish > Garrote > Envenom (if 5+ cp) / Garrote (if 3 cp)

[south dust]

why not gar - plum - gar - rupt - vend - bote - exsang ?

[strange python]

because it's not as good

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aBHYhBxKVMdqGNq69nsAxV

[lean marten]

macro plym into vend is fine

[strange python]

Look at the sample ability log at the bottom

Generally pretty safe to go off of

[balmy condor]

@south dust because it wastes time on the buff

[frigid kestrel]

Ye I have Plum and Vend macroed together

[south dust]

can i get a copy paste of that macro?

[frigid kestrel]

Ye let me log real fast

[balmy condor]

#showtooltip
/cast vendetta
/use 13
/use 14

[strange python]

^

[lean marten]

#showtooltip

at top

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[lean marten]

#showtooltip

/cast vendetta
/use 13
/use 14

to be exact

[frigid kestrel]

Welp

let me not log lol

[balmy condor]

There, now it’s edited

Leave me alone xD

Oh also need to mention

That you should be careful if you’re double on use

Cause that macro might fuck you with 2 on use trinkets

[frigid kestrel]

#showtooltip Vendetta
/use Vendetta
/use 13
/use 14

PERFECTION!!!!!!

What i win?

[mossy star]

Do lego tiny little blade apply a full duration on bleed/poison it spread ?

[balmy condor]

I would assume not

But afaik it’s still broken

[honest vessel]

does slaughter work with blindside?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[honest vessel]

cool

[celest trellis]

Is Zoldyck good?

[lusty nacelle]

@celest trellis yes, but there are 2 others that are currently better:

Dashing Scoundrel²  > Celerity³ > Zoldyck > Master Assassin
2: Potentially too strong
3: Outlaw Legendary Power that works cross spec```

[celest trellis]

Ah didnt see the pins my apologies

[surreal solar]

^ thats not actually a hard fast "will always be better" its a situational, Scoundrel's still in need of a fix, and Celerity is Outlaw but usable outside of outlaw (possible bug)

[celest trellis]

So if/when bonespike gets nerfed how close is Night Fae to Necrolord?

[low girder]

that kind of depends how hard bone spike gets nerfed doesn't it

it's decently behind right now

[celest trellis]

So its Necrolord by a long shot right now?

[low girder]

currently yes, but it's not a matter of if it gets nerfed, but when

and how much

also depends how high we can get our conduits the first tier

[celest trellis]

Based on tuning would we rather it get slight nerfed and the other brought up?

Or is it out of line with the other classes as well

Just trying to understand how far ahead necrolord is

Or if the others are just bad

[low girder]

kyrian is trash, the others are ok depending on conduits and leggo choices

bone spike is just really far ahead

takes a good bit of conduit ranks to make venthyr decent on ST though

[loud light]

"really far" is not exactly fair if you're talking rank 15 conduits, not to mention most of those charts don't include soulbinds either

hopefully we see a baseline buff to sepsis and slaughter, a nerf to the slaughter conduit so that isn't such a huge outlier, and a redesign of ER

[low girder]

i mean talking about rank 15 conduit ranks in a discussion about launch seems rather useless

it's not likely we're going that high even in the first tier

[loud light]

we literally don't know anything about conduit ranks, besides the fact that they exist in the spell data

so

who knows

[celest trellis]

So with the catchup mechanics on renown, would it be likely that we will switch covenants once we get conduit ranks?

[low girder]

we would right now, but tuning hasn't been done at all yet

so who knows

[celest trellis]

Tru

[low girder]

depends on context too, venthyr isn't great in M+, bonespike is

at least how it works right now

maybe we'll be able to spread slaughter poison later

¯_(ツ)_/¯

(if someone wants to correct me on that, maybe we can spread it, maybe i'm conflating the other specs)

[loud light]

also kind of an anti-synergy in M+ with the slaughter conduit, as master assassin is a really powerful lego there but the conduit increases crit chance

[low girder]

yeah

also from what fuu was telling us about what he's played with in simc in terms of soulbinds, that's not likely to change the covenant choice

that is with current tuning though, if they're closer together, maybe that'll happen

[harsh notch]

Does someone have a tellmewhen setup that i can have for assassination?

[balmy condor]

Not sure if there’s a wago type thing for tmw

But if you’re okay with using weakauras instead

There’s these

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

Or I can send mine over as well

[harsh notch]

awesome!

just trying to find the best one suited for pvp

[balmy condor]

They’ll track the things you need to track regardless of content

It’s not really like “these are sin rogue weakauras for pvp”

Cause you’re still tracking all the same stuff

Just using it differently

[harsh notch]

yea your right

Wish i got into rogues sooner tho, super fun in PvP

[strange python]

They've always been there.

[balmy condor]

Ye I just hate pvp lmao

[strange python]

Same since Legion.

Cz sub and cz it's uncontrollable anymore.

When is prepatch, any info?

[balmy condor]

22nd most likely

[strange python]

Cz I'm stuck in Destiny 2.

Is there any content though? Or worth to skip?

[balmy condor]

All the class changes are going live and there’s an event like normal with cosmetics and achieves you only can get during prepatch

Idk, it’s prepatch

[strange python]

I probably lost all my muscle memory.

Welp. Will see I guess.

Gotta find good raiding guild.

Since I told my old one that they suck.

[astral tiger]

was gonna try n'zoth as sin and see how it went, and with https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2aq4vgCuvbNsnjDE32iaGU c&s was simming a bit higher than focusing iris, is this just cause of sim innacuracy or is it worth a shot?

[rancid bobcat]

U have very low vers

If any at all, don't remember and on my phone

Once you put in w/e it's called symbiosis essence

[astral tiger]

lmaoo ye i have 85 vers :/

[rancid bobcat]

Haste eventually plateaus

Idk where things are at where it pushes you to run cns

But meh

[loud light]

Cleave Add fight style is pretty unusual to see, also

[low girder]

it'll be a bit higher on cleave add than haste

on ST it's prolly still iris

[astral tiger]

I'm not really sure how one should sim n'zoth as sin, tbh

[rancid bobcat]

Oh is that there

[astral tiger]

I've only run it as outlaw as a rogue

[rancid bobcat]

It's an ST fight

Like you killed it already right

If you're trying to parse then prob look at the top and see how people are cheesing

[astral tiger]

We haven't killed it yet, no, but I wanna see for a few pulls how it compares to outlaw since we don't have much problem with psychophages and we need more boss dmg

But I wanna try to optimize it for the overall so i'm not useless out of my vendetta window

[rancid bobcat]

Just run ST

[astral tiger]

aight

[rancid bobcat]

You're not useless outside of it

[loud light]

for gear/essence optimization you're fine with a patchwerk sim

[rancid bobcat]

You don't have a problem with adds but you want to not focus on ST

Just go ST

[loud light]

just look at assassination logs to see where they use cooldowns

[rancid bobcat]

How's ur hunter/mage count

And warlock

[astral tiger]

2 mages, 2 hunters

3 locks

[rancid bobcat]

Don't think you need to worry about adds at all

Idk how much you're even doing as outlaw

[astral tiger]

Meh it depends on the pull lmao, i can hardly get to the psychophages anyways

I was mostly only excelling in synapse damage in comparison to others

That's my one fear going sin

[rancid bobcat]

Synapses damage is a player/strat problem not a damage problem

[astral tiger]

True, but some pulls I was like 40% of our synapse damage on psychus 1 lmao

That's what has me worried

My guild is definitely not what one would call "Elite skill 5head raiders"

[rancid bobcat]

idk like i shouldn't be the one to talk cause i'm not some top level raider but

eh

[astral tiger]

Idk we'll see how it goes lmao

Ty for the help all! ❤️

[rancid bobcat]

just bleed psychus and pump envenoms into synapses

and get used to the shorter range maybe

[slow finch]

I am running esang build.
Question:

1. How many seconds left in garrote to NOT over cap it but get to that max 31 sec BEFORE esang?

2 How many seconds left in RUPTURE to NOT over cap it but get to that max 31 sec BEFORE esang?

[honest vessel]

130% of a dot is its max uptime

so 30% of total is what you're looking for

5.4 for garrote

i forget how much a 6cp rup gives, but its .3 times that amount

max garrote time is only 23.4 seconds tho

the breakpoint for refreshing bleeds before xsang is also not the full duration, i believe the cutoff is have 15s of garrote and 25s of rupture at least

[balmy condor]

Uh

Yeah what Kira said is correct

Up until the end

You always refresh to full before an exsang regardless of time left

So you garrote->rupture or rupture->garrote right before every exsang

[honest vessel]

oh shit really?

i wonder where i read that wrong

my b

[balmy condor]

You didn’t read it wrong

Just a little outdated

[honest vessel]

oh gotcha

[severe narwhal]

with the expedient build. do i refresh Crimson tempest everytime in a ST fight

[balmy condor]

if you have enough haste

yes

you maintain it as much as possible

less prio than rupture, more than envenom

[mystic osprey]

You always refresh to full before an exsang regardless of time left
@balmy condor

No shit. Definitely haven’t been doing that.

[balmy condor]

yuh

[mystic osprey]

Just making sure it was above 15 and 25
Or whatever.

[balmy condor]

ya learn something new every day

[mystic osprey]

Yeah. Just felt like I would have saw that over the last three months reading guides and following this discord.

[balmy condor]

5/29 from koji in #tc-updates

but yeah, idk

kind of unlucky

[mystic osprey]

Obviously don’t refresh a SS garrote.

[balmy condor]

that's what I've been telling people for months

yeah obviously don't do that

but if its a SS garrote

[mystic osprey]

Good to know. Thanks.

[balmy condor]

you're in your cooldowns and exsanging anyway

so

[severe narwhal]

thanks boys

[vital haven]

5 for garrote and 29 for rupture? @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Yeah sure go for it

Maybe you could actually beat hemo then

[vital haven]

wtf

[fallow otter]

Savage

[balmy condor]

I still love you

[vital haven]

no the dmg is done

[low girder]

[vital haven]

i hate whispyr now

all my homies hate whispyr