assassination

[low girder]

because it's not gonna sim higher

[coral abyss]

shadowfriend

[balmy condor]

(sin channel btw frendo's)

[coral abyss]

oh right

[low girder]

REMOVE VENOM RUSH

[coral abyss]

i got lost in shadow venting

[normal olive]

Yeah just thought i heard something about that so they can use it on us "assassination" rogues

[coral abyss]

time to butter up to the shadows in the raid

and be like psst hey gimme

when i roll sin

[low girder]

wonder if a 25% haste buff makes exsang usable

probably not

[coral abyss]

doubt

[balmy condor]

sin rogue changes build based on power infusion casts

[low girder]

lmao

[balmy condor]

that would be top tier

[low girder]

can you imagine

[coral abyss]

yikes

please no

[normal olive]

Just allways have a pocket priest

[coral abyss]

wait

even ebtter

[low girder]

i think we're going into SL with like 5

so i'll have one

[coral abyss]

HAVE MULTIPLE

who rotate

on you

for omega parses

[balmy condor]

bloodmallet updated to show sin rogue + 2 spriest

[normal olive]

i'll just multibox my priest with my rogue

[marsh wharf]

I hope all 3 specs are good in shadowlands with final tuning

[balmy condor]

they're fine right now

[low girder]

tbh i think they all look good

[balmy condor]

yeah

[low girder]

once sub's leggo is tuned

[coral abyss]

there arent many specs that are "bad"

[low girder]

it won't be so pronounced

[coral abyss]

in the game

[balmy condor]

prot warrior looking kinda really sad

[coral abyss]

tanks dont count

[balmy condor]

but in terms of rogue we're looking fine

[marsh wharf]

i'm messing around on the ptr and blindside feels fantastic, i'm most likely gona go slaughter over bone spike if they nerf bone spike

[low girder]

i only don't like blindside because i don't have a bind for it

[normal olive]

But night fae is better

[low girder]

idk where to put it yet

[normal olive]

[marsh wharf]

put it wherever your azerite thing(like reaping flames) is mata

[coral abyss]

have you unbinded R

yet

[balmy condor]

I see navi has opened the pin

[marsh wharf]

cause that's going away

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

what about prepatch though

when i still have it

azerite will be my covenant ability

[balmy condor]

you're right mata

[normal olive]

Well yes, but i'll pick night fae even if it sucks

[balmy condor]

your poor prepatch logs

[normal olive]

[coral abyss]

im half irish im OBLIGATED

[low girder]

more just keybind confusion later

[coral abyss]

to pick night fae

[balmy condor]

ye

[vagrant scaffold]

can rogue blind the congealed slime on dr. ickus

banish/para/roots work

[low girder]

i'll figure shit out when we actually have a date for prepatch

[balmy condor]

then blind should work too

[low girder]

and i'm forced

[vagrant scaffold]

i figured but haven't ran it with a rogue so i was unsure

[balmy condor]

usually if para works, so does blind

[vagrant scaffold]

you can't sap in combat either right since the mob would be in combat?

[balmy condor]

correct

you would also need to vanish into the sap or something

[vagrant scaffold]

that's only a thing in pvp iirc

[balmy condor]

which is just yucky

[vagrant scaffold]

yeah wasted damage

[marsh wharf]

they should make venom rush apply agonizing poison :^)

[balmy condor]

alt f4

[marsh wharf]

agonizing poison was such immersive gameplay though

[low girder]

yeah i really studied boss animations

[marsh wharf]

actually you know what would be freakin neat

replace venom rush with double dose

[low girder]

eh, idk, rather have something a little more active. move alacrity to the left side as the very passive option for just hitting buttons, and give our shiv talent, maybe a (crazy i know coming from me) a kingsbane-like effect with increasing finisher dmg the more you fit in the window

granted i spent like 2 whole minutes thinking about that idea, but it seems alright

[marsh wharf]

yea kingsbane is nice, especialy since outlaw got dreadblades back

AND it's in the same row

maybe they are bringing kingsbane back

[low girder]

not directly a kingsbane, but it's similar in effect

[balmy condor]

doubtful

[low girder]

nah it won't

[balmy condor]

kingsbane is toxic blade

which is now shiv

[low girder]

talents are prolly locked at least for launch

[dire spoke]

what

kingsbane is toxic blade
Have I missed spell changes or the joke

[balmy condor]

mostly the joke

but the legacy of kingsbane is toxic blade

so kinda not joke?

[dire spoke]

[normal olive]

Wasn't toxicblade also in the game when kingsbane was there?

[balmy condor]

shhhh

[void pecan]

There was a meme on when to kingsblade

I think?

or was that when TB was released.

[quartz marlin]

How do I get blood of the enemy essence

I googled it everywhere and can’t find an answer

[normal olive]

Do bg's

you need to farm honor for it

[quartz marlin]

Is it just a random drop?

[balmy condor]

no, its an achieve

you farm X amount

[normal olive]

you get t1 from a quest at the pvp vendor

[balmy condor]

with prepatch in ~1 month though I really wouldn't worry about it

[normal olive]

^

[quartz marlin]

I

[balmy condor]

farming bote takes a fair amount of effort

[quartz marlin]

K

[lapis sundial]

What's the preferred corruptions if you can get them for sin?

[balmy condor]

exped for raids, severe/strike for m+, gushing for pvp

[lapis sundial]

Thankie

[surreal solar]

why does link?

[fleet whale]

i wish we got KB back in some way

[surreal solar]

would be better than venom rush

[balmy condor]

anything is better than venom rush

[low girder]

whoa let's not go that far

[balmy condor]

name something worse than venom rush

[low girder]

current blindside

[balmy condor]

I would rather current blindside over venom rush

[low girder]

i wouldn't lol

[surreal solar]

current blindside stands no chance against tb/exsang

[balmy condor]

and venom rush does?

[low girder]

shiv talent when

[surreal solar]

no, but KB does

[balmy condor]

well that depends on its tuning

lets forget the viability argument, that's just a numbers game

lets say venom rush and current blindside are both viable

what would you rather have in that slot

[low girder]

VR

[balmy condor]

(if you say venom rush, you're wrong)

[low girder]

current blindside feels like shit

with it's 2 CP

if it crits

[balmy condor]

to me, venom rush still feels worse

[low girder]

i'd rather have a passive thing i never notice than a thing that actively gives me less resources

if they buffed it to 2 CP like SL, sure

talking about the execute thing here, not the free procs

[balmy condor]

I honestly don't care about the cp thing

[low girder]

it just feels wrong lol

my only issue with it

but that's a personal thing

[subtle drift]

My subterfuge aura on elvui is gone althought i didn't blacklistet it, does anyhone have the same problem?

[balmy condor]

your subterfuge aura is gone?

on what? buff bar? player frame?

the buff, or the empowered dot on the nameplate?

[subtle drift]

Both, above play Player UI and in the BUFF Ui

Right after leaving stealth

[low girder]

leaving stealth manually doesn't proc it

[balmy condor]

are you doing it in combat?

yeah

you have to be in combat for the buff to appear

[low girder]

i didn't realize it was a combat thing specifically, thought just unstealthing yourself didn't work lol

[icy ember]

ya you gotta be in combat, i notice your WA doesnt appear?

[subtle drift]

I don't have a WA

It wasn't ther ein comabt either.

[icy ember]

[low girder]

hit a dummy downstairs to double check

[subtle drift]

But i'll test it, i added it manually to the whitelist

[low girder]

am curious

[balmy condor]

yeah if you stealth and hit a dummy it should show up

with anything at all

doesn't have to be garrote

[subtle drift]

There again.

Manually whitelisting it worked

Thanks guys.

[dark crag]

Use fok from stealth, it 100% activates supter

[low girder]

oh right

derp

[dark crag]

Don't even need to hit something or be in combat

[low girder]

forgot since we never use subt that way lol

[icy ember]

[gray dew]

anyone got a moment to talk assassin with me in current content

[balmy condor]

I mean

kinda

but why care if prepatch in like 3 weeks

this whole discord is shadowlands waiting room atm XD

[normal olive]

"Furry Land waiting room" pls

[low girder]

[fallow otter]

@gray dew this is your moment

Make it count

👍

[vestal wren]

btw. if there is sth i should add to the SL pin, please ask/ping me

[balmy condor]

can we add a note at the bottom that says "if you need to ask, play outlaw in m+ and sub in raids"

I want my quiet space :-)

[vestal wren]

i am not sure about that one ^^

i rather have it simple and only some frequent questions

[balmy condor]

:-(

[vestal wren]

i also made !cele if somone asks for the legendary power

!cala

[balmy condor]

nice

[low girder]

rip

[vestal wren]

*cele

!cele

[prisma monolith]

Celerity is a Outlaw Legenendary Power that procs from Slice and Dice.
This means that it works on all Rogue specs. The proc is a 4 second Adrenaline Rush that also gives you a 15% damage amp.

[balmy condor]

you're a cutie fuu

I'll let you know if there's any repeat questions

[low girder]

maybe that soulbinds are still being played with

good stuff though

[balmy condor]

potentially two strong*

I'll find all the typos

[low girder]

lol

[vestal wren]

wait, whats the typo

oh "too"

[balmy condor]

yeah :P

[solid sonnet]

Too: Pwotentially Two Strwong

[low girder]

[vestal wren]

i should go with modern typing and write "potentially 2 strong"

[balmy condor]

pOWOtentially tUWU stwong?

[vestal wren]

haha

dashing is not (like akaaris) a huge dps win over the other ones

but its still noticeable ahead what makes it a bit to good

[balmy condor]

so what you're saying, is instead of raz link sims, its gonna be fuu link sims

got it

[low girder]

is this assuming the snd buff works, 'cause last i heard from koji it's not actually hooked in?

the r2

[balmy condor]

its implemented in sims

[low girder]

obv it was still winning without but

[balmy condor]

just not in game

[low girder]

ah

[balmy condor]

cause blizzy made a fucky wucky

[vestal wren]

snd rank 2 is currently not hooked up with a spell iirc

[balmy condor]

and didn't linky winky the skilly willy

[vestal wren]

so that means its a placebo

👍

[low girder]

yeah he looked into it because i was an idiot

which is hilarious

accidental bug finding

the best

[vestal wren]

but tbh its not to bad

[fallow otter]

Fuu you gotta fix "Celerity is a Outlaw Legenendary' 👍

[vestal wren]

it does not rly make snd a lot better

(blizz pls change it to energy regeneration)

[balmy condor]

what if blizzard intentionally didn't link r2 to snd in order to placebo test the community reaction, knowing that the general populous won't notice

[low girder]

i was gonna go the other way, and the reason it's not linked is because it's not going to be 20% more attack speed

[balmy condor]

now we're talking

20% more energy regen

oh oh oh

20% faster dot tick rate

[fallow otter]

Fuu you gotta fix "Celerity is a Outlaw Legenendary' 👍

[balmy condor]

(that's kinda really difficult to code now that I think about it, rip dot idea)

[vestal wren]

i was gonna go the other way, and the reason it's not linked is because it's not going to be 20% more attack speed
is that reverse psychology, where they create a tooltip that says sth completely unrelated to the spell?

[low girder]

placeholder buff

(it won't be, i'm just trying to be hopeful)

[balmy condor]

what if the placeholder buff is the TB talent we were promised

[low girder]

lmao

[vestal wren]

pre patch will be fun tbh

[balmy condor]

we seem to have different definitions of fun

[vestal wren]

the TB effect is still locked to >level 50 iirc

[low girder]

yeah it's uh

[vestal wren]

so shiv is useless

[balmy condor]

56

[low girder]

yeah 56

[vestal wren]

"so when do i use shiv"
"you don't"
"what?"

[balmy condor]

nah nah nah

[low girder]

snd rank 2 is also locked

if they make it work

[balmy condor]

"so when do I use shiv"
"level 56"
"but cap is 50"
"exactly"

[low girder]

kinda weird to lose 2 buttons

lol

[balmy condor]

yeh

I mean we technically lose 3 single target, and get 1 back in blindside

[low girder]

3 i guess, but CT replaced with SND

[balmy condor]

oh

snd, right

so then we lose 1

[low girder]

i forgot about blindside

wasn't sure if it'll be worth with all our stats

EP seems fine to keep up for me

[balmy condor]

have you read the pins

baka baka

[low girder]

this is SL though lol

i'm talking prepatch

[balmy condor]

close enough

[low girder]

might be a bit closer with our secondaries, we'll see

[balmy condor]

just take all the passives

[fallow otter]

Usually you can sneeze at bosses and they die in pre patch

[vestal wren]

kinda weird to lose 2 buttons
replace TB with snd -> problem solved

[low girder]

snd is replacing CT, for now

i'll need to find where to put CT later for M+

[balmy condor]

master passive, master a passive, vigpassiveor, alacripassive, passive bomb

[low girder]

lol

i still have an EP bar

it just doesn't really see use since, ironically, EP

[balmy condor]

I have a little icon that switches when I get a blindside proc

so it tracks ep if I have that, and blindside if I have that

but it'll probably break

[vestal wren]

ct for m+

[balmy condor]

cause blindside isn't blindside

hidden blades only

[low girder]

hidden blades

[balmy condor]

actually viable though

[low girder]

yeah 😦

man i hate HB

lol

[fallow otter]

Im not looking forward to pre patch sales

[low girder]

but idk why i said m+

clearly i need to reread pins

[balmy condor]

prepatch m+

for the big IO

[low girder]

idk if we'll even raid in prepatch lol

unless we find a sale somehow

[fallow otter]

CE will be dead but mounts will still get sales

[balmy condor]

new spriest LF mythic manifesto for leveling

[low girder]

yeah i just dunno how much the guild cares

when we actually get a hard date maybe they will

[balmy condor]

you think we're getting a date?

[low girder]

surprise motherfuckers patch tomorrow

[balmy condor]

I think we'll log in on tuesday morning and wonder where toxic blade went

[low girder]

lol

[balmy condor]

and then the flood gates shall open

I know it'll be prepatch cause this channel will say "850+ messages since 9:12am" at the top

[low girder]

70% will be "do we actually use snd?"

[balmy condor]

really?

I think 70% will be "I thought shiv is replacing tb"

[low girder]

lol maybe

[balmy condor]

that and "is exsang viable"

[low girder]

i see a lot of people asking if they can remove snd from their bars

and they'll be disappointed

[fallow otter]

Im going to

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

lol

[balmy condor]

who the hell is asking that

[low girder]

well it doesn't interact with the spec right

[fallow otter]

And replace it with drain soul

[low girder]

therefore why do i need it

[balmy condor]

true true

poison applications do nothing

melee hits are 0 damage

[fallow otter]

It's a trash maintenance spell but we will have to use it

[low girder]

yeah, stupid dmg

[balmy condor]

me and my 3head plays

[pseudo hamlet]

Well, tbh I thought that Shiv is seriously replacing TB. But I guess it's because I don't really follow the newest SL notes.

[balmy condor]

It is

[low girder]

it is, just not until 56

[balmy condor]

^

the tb nature damage part is a rank 2 to shiv that doesn't show up till 56

[low girder]

sub will be worse for the thing they're missing lol

but this is wrong channel

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh, thanks for clarification! 😄

[balmy condor]

btw mata, you see how it already started?

100% of the questions are shiv

[low girder]

lmao

[balmy condor]

flawless statistics

[low girder]

or one of the covenants will break and be in our spellbook

again

"where do i learn sepsis"

[balmy condor]

bold of you to assume they won't ALL be in our spellbook

[fallow otter]

Well @balmy condor at least you don't need that exsang Tb macro anymore

[low girder]

trueee

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

But you need a ambush mut one?

Lol

[low girder]

my UI is going to break into tiny little pieces

sigh

[balmy condor]

I'm putting ambush and mut on different buttons

cause I'm a purist

each spell gets its own button

the way GOD INTENDED

[low girder]

i might finally move my stealth bind

f seems like a good blindside key

[fallow otter]

So kidney and cheapshot on different butans?

[balmy condor]

yes

[low girder]

and stealth on f is objectively dumb

[shrewd night]

each spell gets its own button

You aint a purist unless you have a stealthbar

[fallow otter]

[shrewd night]

@low girder Calling me out like that

[low girder]

lmao

calling myself out

[balmy condor]

F is for Fstealth

[shrewd night]

My stealth is fine where it is on f

[balmy condor]

y'all don't use ~?

[low girder]

i went through that last time, that's my health pot

lol

[fallow otter]

New question! Is stealth on the stealth bar?

[shrewd night]

Stealth for assa on F, outlaw F2, sub F1

[fallow otter]

To break stealth

[shrewd night]

Consistency where?

[low girder]

no, i actually use the stance bar for the bind

like a heathen

[balmy condor]

my solution to that is only playing 1 spec

don't need to worry about multi-spec keybinds if you don't multi-spec

[fallow otter]

It's ok you can put ambush on its own butan for outlul too

For that ambush vanish ambush big boi opener

[balmy condor]

huge

and then in m+, they'll ask for a vanish skip

and I'll say "gomenasai, needed to ambush for big deeps"

6k io incoming

[fallow otter]

Nightfae easy

Only takes 30s

[low girder]

the worst part about that ability

[balmy condor]

its like an egg timer, for getting to play the game

[fallow otter]

That it might actually be bis and we are all fuckin faeries

[low girder]

i want to be night fae

so i'm cool with that

[fallow otter]

Yeah im fine with that... I just don't want everyone single sin to be it

[shrewd night]

when did whispyr turn into such a fucing weeb

[balmy condor]

always has been

[shrewd night]

Yeah mata, full on fae at this point. Aint noone challenging the power of blink

[low girder]

i'll prolly play what's best overall so that's gonna end up being necro or fae

overall for all 3*

[fallow otter]

Ye

[low girder]

i hate necro but the ability seems decent enough

[balmy condor]

I'm making 4 rogues

[fallow otter]

Atm is necro for me purely cause it's just good for all

[balmy condor]

and they're all gonna be kyrian

[low girder]

aight tmb

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

if we're not subt (lol) the chain is kinda cool too

[grizzled orbit]

Weebspyr

[low girder]

since you can sepsis immediately and basically have 15s of crit on pull

[shrewd night]

[potent raft]

looking at the pin from yesterday ; is Master Poisoner a lot behind Blindside? Considering a character running with Dashing Scoundrel and Lethal Poisons?

[balmy condor]

its not a ton, but MP is worse

if I remember correctly

I'm too lazy to build the sl fork myself but I should

[sterile bane]

rip sub

[balmy condor]

wowmeta

pls no

[red pagoda]

how the turns have tabled

[balmy condor]

the wowmeta comes back every couple days

[sterile bane]

ye

just a base idea

[low girder]

it's not though

we've had no tuning

lmao

[balmy condor]

its really not

throwing darts at a board is also a base idea

by that definition

[verbal mantle]

pls stop with wowmeta

it HURTS me

[balmy condor]

look what you've done

you made daddy crawl out of his OT hole

[verbal mantle]

[sterile bane]

[balmy condor]

but yeah

the wowmeta links are fucking pain

[verbal mantle]

every sin boys are panicking with that

[low girder]

i'm preparing my brain for the icy veins ones over the next few days

[balmy condor]

I can't prep my brain for the icy veins one

[low girder]

lol

[balmy condor]

"but it's written by the officer of bdgg"

💤

[verbal mantle]

im waiting for the sin guide on Noxxic.

[balmy condor]

noxxic's "real dps" meter

that's the good stuff

[low girder]

what the hell is that

do i have a rabbit hole to jump down

[balmy condor]

it's pretty great

they have like simdps rankings

and then "real dps" rankings

which aren't based on logs

but like simdps with a janky fight type or something

idk, I didn't go down that dark twisted path

[low girder]

i check noxxic like once or twice an xpac for a laugh

[verbal mantle]

translate "real dps" by "feelcraft"

[low girder]

haven't checked it in a while

[old galleon]

hi there! where can I find a guide for M+ assa? stats, traits, corruptions, etc?

[balmy condor]

currently?

in the pins

smokers guide

[verbal mantle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

at the bottom

those guides all outdated for m+ dadsen

good attempt though

[verbal mantle]

ah 😕

[old galleon]

yeah, thats why im asking 😛

[balmy condor]

yeah, smokers guide

[low girder]

like he said, smoker's guide is good

[balmy condor]

at the bottom

got all that good stuff

[old galleon]

just saw it

the pinned one right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[old galleon]

tyyy

[past mauve]

New expansions are always this way....

Assassination on the bottom of the three specs.. Then they realize "oh no the rogues aren't happy we didn't do much for them " they give us one buff to appease us.. Then realize " crap those rogues aren't buying the hotfix, buff them a little more " this cycle continues for several weeks thus eventually nerfing the other 2 specs...breaking Sub to the pvp shadows and bringing Assassination back to the top...

So about two -three months after SL launches we will be fixed.

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

[balmy condor]

that sounds very feelycrafty and based on your own emotions of how rogues play at the start of expansions

[low girder]

based on one specific tier named uldir

[balmy condor]

cause that's definitely not what happens every single time

[low girder]

it's not how it always goes

[balmy condor]

well even basing on uldir

we got nerfed

not buffed

[low girder]

yeah both did

[verbal mantle]

SS got nerfed

iirc

pretty quickly

[low girder]

SS and BitS

[sterile bane]

ye

[low girder]

might've been the same hotfix tbh

i don't remember anymore

[balmy condor]

I don't actually remember the last time we were mega undertuned for the first raid

and they needed to buff AGAIN

[low girder]

wod

only time i can remember

but all 3 specs were mega undertuned

[balmy condor]

yeah

[low girder]

every spec got like a 25% bump

[balmy condor]

it wasn't bad in mop

at least i dont remember it

[low girder]

legion was just outlaw having a hyper strong couple of relics

sin was good after that

[balmy condor]

exsang was nutty on launch too right

[sterile bane]

well be honest sin is getting the short end of the stick nothing too special

[low girder]

yeah

i mean, kind of. outlaw didn't get much either

our specs are mostly fine

don't need much

[balmy condor]

yeah rogue is fine

[verbal mantle]

i remember my exsangu + 375 GCB

[balmy condor]

its just replacing the borrowed power for the most part

[low girder]

sub needed some TLC a bit to fix things up, that's about it

god gcb in uldir

shit sucked\

i had to run it as sub even

lol

[verbal mantle]

I liked it a lot even if a lot of ppl told to no play with

[low girder]

i hate rune trinkets so much

[verbal mantle]

idk, it doesnt bother me too much

[balmy condor]

remember draught

that was a trinket

a real mans trinket

[low girder]

lol

[verbal mantle]

rofl

[balmy condor]

you can't move and something spawned under you

[low girder]

i mostly remember COF + vendetta boots

[balmy condor]

and you're like "wait fuck no stop"

[low girder]

i got a 1m vendetta cd now what up

[shrewd night]

My newest hobby - deleting posts that refer to wowmeta.

[balmy condor]

you mean, the lords work?

[sterile bane]

[balmy condor]

delete the icyveins ranking posts too when they show up

its only a matter of time

[shrewd night]

No for real, stop referring to a site that extracts data from all logs regardless of wipes or kills.

Fucking degen site baiting people before tuning

[balmy condor]

I agree, but less toxic

[verbal mantle]

thx Shiennar

this kind of site makes me wanna puke

[dire spoke]

Make wowmeta a trigger word so moroes can call it names @vestal wren

[vestal wren]

linking wowmeta should be filtered

i added that yesterday, so unless i made a mistake there that's already the case

bot can't filter screenshots of it

[dire spoke]

oh I see

Just tempmute the people into second week of raid release

[tropic ocean]

welcome to korea

[molten radish]

Hello mates
What do you think of bleed spec on Shadowland ? Is it viable ? 🩸 🩸 🩸

[balmy condor]

no

we're going poison

[molten radish]

It's too bad, I would have loved to play bleed with the Venthyrs cov', rip 😢

[balmy condor]

ye, exsang is just bad compared to alacrity

and the conduits are all poison based

[shrewd night]

Who knows, maybe exsang has some fringe cases like NF mastery proc, NS rupture?

Tuning will tell

[balmy condor]

true true

losing a lot of haste and SS kinda hurts though

[hoary snow]

Isn't it gonna be feeling quite shit in SL if we get weapon tokens.. use for spec A and then it gets nerfed? Feel like my guild is gonna put me low on weapon prio cuz off the unreliability.. how u guys see this?

[shrewd night]

If your guild has that mentality its time to find a new one. Noone is going to put classes lower on prio just because shit might get nerfed. Even if you get a dagger its useful for both the other specs.

[grave mist]

personally as long as sub doesnt get shafted a few weeks in then both dagger specs will be pretty good

yea what koffing said if assa goes under play sub if the guild really whines about it

[hoary snow]

Oh is dagger used in all 3?? That I didn't know 😅

[shrewd night]

Assa and sub uses two daggers, outlaw can use dagger in offhand

[hoary snow]

Ooh then it's no biggy yea! I thought they all 3 used diff weapon which would make it big yikes to swap 🙃

[grave mist]

but atm i dont see either specs getting nerfed to the ground....fuck i see even possible buffs later down the road since atm melee is just oooof compared to range

[hoary snow]

Makes sense!

[grave mist]

guess bfa melee meta pissed some devs off haha

[hoary snow]

We currently run 6 melee not tooo happy but still doable I hope

But don't hope officers go for many more recruiting hahhaha

[grave mist]

will be fine what really is the issue to me atleast is covs

if i go necro and find out flipping fae or venthyr a few weeks in gets a stupid buff and necro gets a huge nerf....kms

[hoary snow]

Yea that's a big yikes.. at least u can swap once ez right?

[scarlet sequoia]

just level 4 rogues

dont be a casual

[grave mist]

yea i have 2 atm leveling the 3rd right now 😉

but its still big dumb multi dollar company BS

[hoary snow]

Ima stick with 2.. as I rather have strong alt ready incase we really need ranged 🤣 🤣 🤣

[grave mist]

yea i feel like 2 should be fine im doing 3 since i 100% feel like kyrian will never be the rogue BiS

[shrewd night]

I mean, none of us will be surprised if spike gets adjusted. I am ready to embrace our fae overlords.

[grave mist]

yea im hoping fae gets a big buff b4 live

[plain thistle]

race changing to vulpera and going night fae, the ultimate furry

[dull crypt]

we have 11 melee in the roster rip

and 8 ranged (:

[shrewd night]

What kind of bizzaro roster is that

[dull crypt]

just zero good locks and mages apply, only good apps are melee

started mythic late so suppose most good ranged had a guild

2 mages and 2 locks left through progress aswell and started as a curve guild so comp was whatever

[turbid osprey]

Hey snap

Bizzaro roster for the best memes

2x frost mages 2x feral why not

[steep ridge]

we got 5 Demonhunter

[turbid osprey]

Wild, we lost our only one so I had to reroll to it

[main blaze]

For SL we dont have a DH yet

our 3 DHs have swapped off

[turbid osprey]

was so boring to play it even for 1 fight in bfa, not surprising

[burnt dawn]

what race would you guys say to go in SL? for all specs

[quasi ledge]

Doesn't matter

[atomic jolt]

Furry nation man

time to yiff

[hollow schooner]

Wow furry nation. Blast from the past

[leaden scarab]

Did crimson tempest get buffed in beta? Also, are our talent choices basically the same for raid and m+?

Bmv I see pin was posted

[balmy condor]

No CT buffs btw

[spare talon]

New to rogue.. Lvling assassin.. I should be using deadly poison, correct?

[balmy condor]

Yes, always deadly in PVE

Wound is only for pvp

[frigid kestrel]

hmmm so high DPS for beta is like 3k+ im assuming

[weary kestrel]

as a lifelong player the spec feels so gutted and we are only relevant because how OP toxic blade is

[balmy condor]

?

We don’t even use toxic blade currently

[weary kestrel]

that's a broad statement

[balmy condor]

That’s what the meta is though

If you look up logs right now, you’ll see 95% exsang, and 5% tb, only because of mind flays

In shadowlands, it’s mostly autoattacks and snd with poison applications right now as well

So I’m gonna have to hard disagree with your view on tb

[vast forum]

TB was never overpowered

[frigid kestrel]

TB wasn’t what made us strong even before bleed build if I remember correctly.

[balmy condor]

Correct

[fleet whale]

doesn't take away how awful it feels to press shiv though in SL

[weary kestrel]

im not saying what is meta, what does the most dmg in bossfights

im saying what feels good and the play

[balmy condor]

Aha

Well you said op

So that made me think balance

[weary kestrel]

yes look at it, 20 energy, more dmg than mut, 30% increase? lmao

[balmy condor]

Uh

[weary kestrel]

its a spell that makes us relevant

[balmy condor]

Well yes

[weary kestrel]

feels bad

[balmy condor]

It’s not though

[weary kestrel]

its top tier talent with ensang..

what u saying

[balmy condor]

....

[opaque grotto]

I mean there’s only 3 options..

[balmy condor]

I can’t tell if this is another “whispyr is gullible let’s bait him” kinda thing

[fleet whale]

really there is only one option in SL

[weary kestrel]

ah yea just proves my point that they removed it lol

nice

[balmy condor]

Just cause something is the best talent in that row doesn’t mean it’s good

[vast forum]

"feels good to play"

[weary kestrel]

exactly..

[vast forum]

"press on CD every 25 seconds"

[balmy condor]

[vast forum]

muh interactive gameplay

[balmy condor]

Exactly?

[weary kestrel]

u started spouting meta lol

[vast forum]

exsang is actually the more interesting option on that row

and also the stronger one atm

[balmy condor]

I’m getting trolled right

This is bait?

[opaque grotto]

as a lifelong player the spec feels so gutted and we are only relevant because how OP toxic blade is
@weary kestrel

[balmy condor]

I saw through it this time

[opaque grotto]

??

[fleet whale]

i will say shiv feels like a downgrade compared to TB

[vast forum]

spec feels gutted cuz of low stat budget of early expansion and slice and dice being giga awkward to use

[opaque grotto]

I feel like discussing something OP would be “spouting meta”

[fleet whale]

but assassin has other problems atm

[balmy condor]

Also claiming Tb to be OP in the first place is kinda weird

And then making it baseline on shiv rather than a talent is somehow proof of.... it being op?

[crimson palm]

Whispyr what is best covenant

[balmy condor]

Kyrian

[weary kestrel]

just strength in the wrong skills

[opaque grotto]

Man whatever you’re smoking

Slide me some

[balmy condor]

Yeah I don’t think I’m intellectual enough to understand this conversation

[fleet whale]

i cap out on corruption resist tomorrow

i wonder if there is a secret reward for doing so

[weary kestrel]

this is some bfa depression in the house wow im out

[balmy condor]

So Tb is OP, but it’s OP because of how it plays?

[opaque grotto]

Okay yea he trolling

[balmy condor]

And not the damage?

[weary kestrel]

yes

[balmy condor]

Okay, so apart from that being completely wrong, I’m with you

Then what

Something something talent better than exsang

And then saying they removed it when they baked it into shiv

And that somehow proves the point

Which idk what it is

[weary kestrel]

sry i blocked you after the first few msgs u make too many assumptions with a big ego

[lunar wave]

Lmaooo

[opaque grotto]

HAHA man you’re just impossible to follow

[balmy condor]

Bruh he really got me there

How did he even get to the point of calling me egotistical

[opaque grotto]

Because you make too many assumptions yo

[balmy condor]

I’m out here trying to understand his fever dream

[opaque grotto]

Check ur ego please

[balmy condor]

And apparently I’m so full of myself

That I don’t get it

Lul

[low girder]

Bro what

What did I miss lmao

[balmy condor]

Me getting clapped

[harsh sphinx]

[crimson palm]

whispyr what is best covenant

[vast forum]

/roll 4

1 is kyrian

2 is uwu fae

3 is necro

4 is venthyr

[crimson palm]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[balmy condor]

Too busy watching anime to know what covenant is best

[crimson palm]

is it hentai kek

keeping your hands busy so you can't respond

[balmy condor]

I'm just uh

practicing my jutsu

[frigid kestrel]

Necro is best covenant

That Bone Spike or Bine shiv or Bone something is stupid insane

[balmy condor]

yeah its overtuned atm

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

And it gives me free combo points to gain when I’m energy starved and need/want to use a finisher on boss fights

Unless I’m being a pleb and not realizing that it cots energy to use...... seeing as I was playing last night with 20 hours of no rest.

[balmy condor]

10 energy

[frigid kestrel]

See I am a pleb

Felt like it costed nothing

[spare stream]

10 energy is basically nothing

[gray fjord]

Question for you folks- is there a way to track empowered garrotes from subterfuge? I have some very simple weakauras for just debuff tracking and I have always just made sure to let them fall off when they were empowered garrotes before reapplying, but I wasn't sure if there was like a visual effect you could add to a weakaura to know which type of garrote is on a target.

[balmy condor]

Yes

It requires some custom code or interesting wa solution

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[low girder]

i'm not certain exactly how it's coded but mizerok's WA has them

[balmy condor]

Mizerok’a tracks it

[low girder]

jk too slow

[balmy condor]

The idea is tracking garrote casts that happen while subterfuge is up

[gray fjord]

Oh awesome, thank you folks very much. ^^ I usually just make simple progress bar ones so I'm sure I've wasted a lot of garrote damage in the past due to those.

[balmy condor]

Or tracking exsang casts

[gray fjord]

I always forget there are ! commands on discord.

[normal olive]

[gray fjord]

XD

[low girder]

[balmy condor]

!razsims

[normal olive]

wait

what happened to your name

[low girder]

he's embraced who he is

[balmy condor]

I am who I am

[low girder]

don't look now but dad's playing sin on beta

[balmy condor]

Link or it didn’t happen

[low girder]

can i even link twitch streams in here

lol

[balmy condor]

#rogue-streamers it’s fine xD

[low girder]

uses dashing scoundrel and MP, "why does deadly poison do so much dmg"

lol

[balmy condor]

Outlaw players

[cinder pumice]

hi U know if Kul tiras are good rogues ?? by any chance , want to see if they are with out BS

[safe laurel]

Hey guys I'm new to rogue and I was wondering how do you sim Sin for mythic+ dungeons

[balmy condor]

If you have to ask about races, the different doesn’t impact you

It’s very minimal

Play whatever you think is aesthetic

@safe laurel dungeon slice is fine, smaller-ish cleave/pulls. With eb/crit build you can sim 5-6 target 1min

For aoe

But take multi-target and dungeon sims with a huge grain of salt

It’s impossible to sim for m+ accurately, since everything changes from dungeon to dungeon, week to week

There’s different HP values in the packs, the level changes pull timers

[coral abyss]

you can do what I do on a diff class - sim 1,3,5,8 targets

for 1-2mins

[safe laurel]

Ty yeah I guess I'm going with the crit build I won't have everything though don't want to grind out BoE =/

[coral abyss]

and then use some generic common sense to decide

if somethigns only winning on 1 or 8 targets

its not the pick

if something wins on 1,3,5 all up, thats generally what you go

[balmy condor]

2 min is pretty crazy long for m+

But generally I agree

[coral abyss]

I mean

its for chain pulls

1 min for like

standard pause between pulls

2 mins for a bit of chain pulling

like current motherlode

you're non stop chaining

[safe laurel]

Is that average? Like I said I'm pretty new I've done a couple 15 keys but mostly like 13s

[balmy condor]

Some tanks chain like mother fuckers yeah

[coral abyss]

especially on 0-15 currents

[balmy condor]

We call them “dipshits”

[safe laurel]

lol

[coral abyss]

depends on what you're playing

if im on shadow priest i fucking love chain pulls, i can ramp like a mofo

[normal olive]

Tank pulls 5 packs without time for me to restealth
"i fucking hate you tank"
oh navi is crying again

[coral abyss]

but yeah i can get roguelife being like

[balmy condor]

Sin rogue channel though

[coral abyss]

"fuck chain pulls"

[balmy condor]

Outlaw doesn’t care either

[low girder]

they'll learn if all 3 specs run MA

later

[balmy condor]

But sub specifically

Sin*

Not sub

[safe laurel]

Yeah I dislike like the .5 seconds it would take for me to restealth and they pull :[

[balmy condor]

Yeah and it’s like 50% of our damage lmao

[coral abyss]

the higher the key the less chain pulling cause everyone needs to reset some shit

its more pack > run > pack

[placid dawn]

tank chainpulls then mocks my dps

[coral abyss]

[balmy condor]

Tank: chain pulls the entire god damn dungeon
Sin rogue: hey I need the restealths
Tank: lul xD this rogue fucking sucks

[coral abyss]

"reroll outlaw noob"

[balmy condor]

chain pulling isn’t even like that worth tbh

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

It’s probably faster depending on some group comps where they ramp and ramp

But on a big scale like what are you saving

You’re saving the 2 seconds between pulls?

[normal olive]

I love me some groups with assa rogue and spriest

[balmy condor]

Where you don’t just mad dash into the next pack like a lunatic?

[coral abyss]

well its more they take the pack and drag it while people do it

so the pack is a constant 3-5 mob

if you have hectic cleave in your build

[urban gale]

mathematically if you can live through both packs, you should have just pulled them together to begin with usually

[coral abyss]

you love it

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[urban gale]

unless they are literally seconds from death

[coral abyss]

if you can clear half a pack and then take 1.5 packs together

is when you chain pull

1.5 is diff to 2

[urban gale]

sure

[balmy condor]

I argue in most realistic situations

That doesn’t happen

[coral abyss]

i do like to refer to motherlode, if we live 2 packs easy you take 2, and then when its down to a couple mobs left, you take to next

[balmy condor]

You can cc the mob, or just nuke it

[coral abyss]

anything with ramp stays ramping

[balmy condor]

If you need to cc a caster

Cc a caster

They do that shit in motherlode too

Cc like 3 refreshers

And pull 73 packs together

[coral abyss]

i wouldnt do it with groups that include classes like rogues though generally

cause it cripples em

[balmy condor]

What

No it doesn’t

[coral abyss]

chain pulls

i mean

[balmy condor]

Oh

Yes

[main blaze]

I just tried a dungeon with the shiv legendary and it didnt really seem like it worked?

[balmy condor]

correct

its bugged atm

[main blaze]

Ah

Also 25s cd with shiv makes it feel like that legendary wont ever be used

[balmy condor]

question is if it spreads empowered dots

3 subt garrotes into a rupture, spread, you get a 4th subt garrote and a second rupture

could be good

[main blaze]

yeah

[balmy condor]

6 dots in 5 globals is kinda saucy

[main blaze]

I could see that being decent

If it used subterfuge

[low girder]

Maybe spread spike or sepsis too

[balmy condor]

yeah

its definitely awkward though

I don't see myself using it personally

like I would take zoldyck's or dashing

pretty comfortably over it

[main blaze]

yeah

Was just shocked when it did nothing haha

I think it spread garrote once but not DP or rupture

[balmy condor]

I don't think spreading DP is intended with that

[main blaze]

It says poisons and bleeds

I mean FoK would do more for you than that

[vast forum]

i think on 2-target fights, the shiv leggo will be giga

[balmy condor]

oh it does spread poisons?

[vast forum]

nightstalker pandemic rupture

[balmy condor]

hype

will it be more giga than zoldyck/dashing though

[vast forum]

we'll see 😄

[balmy condor]

I have my doubts :P

[vast forum]

i mean

5cp rupture is 24 sec

shiv is 25 sec CD

you can do full ST rotation and keep dots up on 2 targets

is pretty gud

[low girder]

Yeah could be a good niche for it

Tbh I said it but I don't think it'll spread sepsis

Maybe spike but idk

[balmy condor]

yeah it just depends how much you'll be able to abuse that 2 target

and how good bleeds end up being

if bleeds are like 20% of our damage

and the rest is all poisons

meh

[vast forum]

although tbh, it's all about opportunity cost

even tho you're getting free bleeds

usually an off-target rupture only costs you 1 envenom

which isn't much

[balmy condor]

yeah

shiv basically acts in place of 2 globals right

[vast forum]

so unless it's giga because of pandemic nightstalker rupture, i have my doubts it'll be better than zoldyck

[main blaze]

Also when you can weave an envenom onto two targets with the extra energy from 2 targets + dashing

[balmy condor]

yeah

I don't think that the legendary is bad in a 2 target situation

but I just think there's better

[low girder]

Yeah depends on those snapshots for sure

[leaden delta]

m+ severe/strikethrough how much crit is too much crit? Is there a point that I should be switching to Vers?

[balmy condor]

you only need to switch to vers for like higher than +25/26

cause you need the survivability

[leaden delta]

yeah I mean like gems and stuff for balancing

like, I have 71% crit w/ food buff, and still 2 sockets to get

[balmy condor]

oh jesus

yeah if you're above 60% I would get rid of a severe for a strike

I'm currently on 2 severe's and 7 strikes

71% crit is mega overcapping

you're wasting so much crit

[leaden delta]

so just switch the corruption rather than switching the gems?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[subtle drift]

Every day i pray for bone spike nerf. I don't want to play necrolords :(

[balmy condor]

vers is just worse than crit

in terms of damage

you just go more strikes

[low girder]

Yeah, strikethrough will outweigh any other gems you could swap to

[main blaze]

Yeah I think I like Night fae better

[leaden delta]

alright I'll hang out til strikethrough rotates again lol, Thanks guys

[balmy condor]

strike 3 is the friday before prepatch

at least if our estimates are accurate

so its actually just not worth it anymore

[leaden delta]

should I just regem then? I do 15s for friends and stuff and just want to maximize what I can do until prepatch

[low girder]

The gems themselves are cheap af so if it's a dmg win, sure

Not really anything you can do with the echoes after prepatch anyway, so if you're gonna do keys those last few days, go for it

Unless you need/want the mementos mount still

[balmy condor]

I would replace all the crit gems with vers tbh if you can't get the strikes

I assume you're using blood and spyglass

[leaden delta]

nah idc about a mount. I'm 2 sockets away from being fully socketed so that's the goal atm. just kinda considering the weights because it almost feels like I'm losing damage

yeah blood/glass

[balmy condor]

the spyglass alone is probably getting you to over 100%

[low girder]

Yeah you're def overcapped then when stuff procs

[leaden delta]

https://raider.io/characters/us/kelthuzad/Echorem this is acc if you want to see it.

[balmy condor]

SIX SEVERES

HOLY

that's insane

[low girder]

Lmao

[leaden delta]

it was the build in the guides shrug

[balmy condor]

I think the build says to keep them roughly equal with strikes

but even then

holy

[leaden delta]

6/3 was the split everyone was talking about, and I only VERY recently got close to completing

[balmy condor]

6 strikes

yeah

:P

with full crit sockets, people managed to drop it to 2 severe's

[leaden delta]

goddamn. stronk

[low girder]

Socketing two sets of gear

[balmy condor]

I'm missing like 6 sockets

sitting at 52% crit with food

[low girder]

My sin crit set has 2 sockets

Lol

[balmy condor]

and I'm overcapping in blood if things proc together

I wanted to go bbi over a fok last week

but bbi procced with spyglass and I was staring at 109% crit outside of blood

so that's kinda rip

[low girder]

rip

but yeah i'd replace a few with vers for now, why not

they're like 9g or something, at least on my server

[leaden delta]

regemmed full vers, went to 59 crit 22 vers. a little better at least I guess.