What mata said, but faster than me
#assassination
balmy condor
sand otter
EW
low girder
lol
sand otter
feel dirty
sand otter
like a bad pirate
im just going to keep up bleeds on targets and envenom at 5+
same thing i have done since.... LK
low girder
prolly not as bad, sin has diehards just like sub i guess
balmy condor
Might have to lurk in sub next expac lmao
fleet whale
Sin has been dealing good damage in SL
balmy condor
With Fuu and scathic putting that channel on lock
low girder
overtuned, probably
fair otter
I will be lurking in all 3 channels just to know whats up
fleet whale
idk how it is in M+ though
balmy condor
I have no place
fleet whale
losing SS is going to hurt
balmy condor
This is my home
sand otter
i can try Sub, but im horrible at learning new rotations., and that adds in new stats to focus and i just get mentally overwhelmed
There, one of you now
dull crypt
Didnt sin have decent logs in ptr atm
balmy condor
Sin is comically bad in m+ right now
low girder
yeah
dull crypt
like slightly above sub
balmy condor
If it weren’t for bone spike
low girder
well, not above sub
dull crypt
or was that misinformed bollocks
low girder
sub currently has a completely busted legendary
fair otter
Losing all the Azerite is gonna be sad for Sin M+
dull crypt
well narokuu expansion releases are the absolute best time to discover a new spec
fair otter
yeah like a month+ to practice haha
sand otter
That being true
dull crypt
and everyone has to get used to them
sand otter
i tried outlaw for an entire patch, i gave it the best i could.
But i just felt empty
fair otter
yep yep, new expac with new changes, prepatch is best time to try all 3 and learn them all
sand otter
im not trying to be the best in the world
Just top of my guild
so if sin has a chance at smoking our raid team then ill do my best
let me get you guys some logs
you can see my competition
fair otter
nods
balmy condor
we'd have to look at each person individually and analyze to see if they're actually good players
sand otter
thats true
balmy condor
and that's a lot of work lmao
fair otter
I hope so Mata, we have been behind on updates so far
low girder
like scathic has been saying, we're usually a week or so behind
sand otter
hes a great Destro lock
sand otter
got so much haste gear in corruption he ran out of mana as a lock it was awesome
fleet whale
i already know the rogue changes that are coming:
sand otter
hunter, and lock are tough to beat
fleet whale
that's it
low girder
they'll fix bte prolly
balmy condor
oof
balmy condor
yeah the hunter is okay
fleet whale
if they remove the crit part of it
sand otter
be nice
fleet whale
why use BTE? ranged damage?
sand otter
remember 4 hours a week
low girder
still gives crit %
sand otter
im the only one in the guild that doesnt work more than 40 hours a week lol
sand otter
yeah so thats all i have to compete against
balmy condor
shouldn't be too bad
balmy condor
yeah you can definitely achieve that
with a little bit of optimization, some gearing
no problemo
sand otter
sweet
there is hope i can be on top some day again
i totaly forgot we could buy corruptions
i have enough to buy like 2 or 3
wonder if any of them would help me for raid tonight
sand otter
haha i can get 3 expedients right now
balmy condor
IS is technically fine but its rng garbage
sand otter
balmy condor
you're sitting at 53 corruption atm
sand otter
but i can cleanse the bad ones
balmy condor
you don't really have "bad" ones
balmy condor
but you have 6 slots of gear that could have corruption
sand otter
i cant solo visions im just bad lmao
balmy condor
but since you're already at your cap, and your cloak is over 70 resistance behind
you should buy the cloak upgrades instead
sand otter
wait buy them?
sand otter
im scared to try to solo
balmy condor
you don't need to do a full clear of everything
no masks required either
just clear what you can
org especially is easier
balmy condor
pick up the potions, get the buffs that are up
sand otter
im going to stream in the voice channel if anyone wants to make fun of me 😛
guess i can do better in a vision than i thought
sand otter
Got my cloak to 15 xD
shell ivy
guys i feel sad for assa
i feel like with all the haste we got from bfa
its never gonna be as fun
vast forum
assa was more fun in hfc than in nyalotha for me, ngl
fleet whale
i loved assassin in HFC
and i still think they should make this ambush blindside baseline
distant sable
Any reason with the Crit build an offhand daggers with Vers/Mast is simming higher then one with Crit/Vers - both 475?
grizzled jay
link sim
grizzled jay
i only see 2 daggers here simmed
distant sable
there's 3 offhands in that sim - both have the same icon. Mainhand is already set
Jolly's Boot Dagger vs Deep Fathom's Bite for the offhand
balmy condor
cause the mast is good
bot have vers, so we can ignore that
so its purely crit vs mastery
so its pretty much as easy as just "the mastery is worth more"
distant sable
Makes sense - just use to the guide listing Crit being the primary but i guess i have enough of it (50%) that the mast is worth more
grizzled jay
Stat Weights puts crit at 15 and mast at 12 and vers at 10. so the mast + vers > the crit
distant sable
Cool thanks appreciate the help.
sand otter
and if i start my new job im going to HURT lol
fleet whale
well i believe in Wrath raids released when the expansion launched lol
sand otter
ew
fleet whale
it was an easy tier though
sand otter
back then yes because i could no life it haha.
fleet whale
the raids were cleared like in a day or two
sand otter
only positive thing about the new job (pending i get it) is its 4 days on, and 4 days off
stable gazelle
whats the bleed rogue opener on 2 targets?
vast forum
keep rup and gar on both targets
stable gazelle
So do I double rupture before I exanguinate bote or after?
balmy condor
before
stable gazelle
Ok thanks, just didnt know if it was worth wasting the ticks on the big garrote
distant sable
I'm scheduled to be on call the week it launches so I gotta decide if i just want to risk it or swap to the week after and then be on call twice in 4 weeks
void pecan
Usually take vacation for pax west/blizcon, now i'll take it for SL and be sad when assassin isn't best spec. 
grizzled jay
Sin will be very good
fallow otter
Im less concerned about how good it is in terms of performance and more about how its so fun atm with unlimited haste 😋
Im gonna miss it
grizzled jay
did you miss me Whispyr during my Outlaw escapades
grizzled jay
but now im back to Daggers again
listen I got double Unguent on 1 Ra-den kill, let me have a freebie to at least try it out
fallow otter
@grizzled jay shoulda just tried the hivemind shenanigans
Was fun
It's sad that it's my top sin parse and a basically smashed my face on the keyboard
grizzled jay
haven't done hivemind in like 1.5 months lol
grizzled jay
we have 11 raiding days til pre-patch to get CE. hoping i can squeeze it out.
fallow otter
How's the prog?
grizzled jay
yesterday our psychus 2 group got solid pulls in. once we get psychus 2 down the rest of the fight should go fast
its just a matter of mandatory psychus prog
fallow otter
Yeah
grizzled jay
even if we get 3rd basher set, idc
you can kill n'zoth with 3rd basher set if you get past psychus 2
fallow otter
Psy2 is a cuck
grizzled jay
thoughts are a joke now. just need good anguish placement and healer cd's
fallow otter
No disc?
grizzled jay
one pally is soloing psychus 1
drifting cloud
youre not killing the boss as soon as you get past psychus2 lol
thats like 50% prog
because now every good try is atleast 7min, but you can still easily wipe before or have too many dead
so now youre doing maybe 20 pulls in 3h
fallow otter
You could argue that secret is quick and dropping evokes is easy, so it's just making sure people soak properly and laser paranoia isn't a fail and there are a few healing checks
But @drifting cloud is right, it takes ages to get there haha
Timewise
tranquil granite
hi how is assasination rogue in shadowlands beta atgm ?
tranquil granite
what spec for rogue would you recomend ?
balmy condor
it plays exactly like it does now
drifting cloud
my friends guild got CE last reset, I have a decent understanding of how 2k guild prog
balmy condor
but the damage isn't there
sub for raid, outlaw for m+ seems like atm
but we have tuning passes coming
drifting cloud
and they killed it barely above 200, which is pretty decent from some of the numbers ive seen from other guilds ranging from anywhere to like 150 to 500
grizzled jay
sub isn't gonna be for raid
it's going to get substantial numbers tuning
well, sub will be for raid
but i expect it to be as good as sin
fallow otter
my friends guild got CE last reset, I have a decent understanding of how 2k guild prog
@drifting cloud is that how many ce guilds there are?
2k?
drifting cloud
way more actually, thats the wowprog number that doesnt have china
fallow otter
I thought there would be way more since so the nerfs and damage ramp from gear
drifting cloud
its already higher than argus and raid has been out what 2-3 months less
hard to compare to wod since hfc was out for like 14months
and yeah soo was also out for what 12months
fallow otter
I only came back at the end of legion and started raiding properly at ghuun
Missed so that
But we are like 250
Start of April is 250
So what's that... 5 months
Nerfs were after our kill
Yeah I thought there would be more, mainly because of how dumb corruptions make damage output
Interesting
drifting cloud
yeah well 2k guilds dont have problem with dmg check
its attendance and just general bad play
if the healers cant keep them up during evokes or if they move like potatoes, no amount of dmg you do is gonna save you
fallow otter
Yeah I think nail on the head with attendance
lament junco
How will be assassin stats focus after pre patch when corruption vanish ?
fallow otter
Im fighting the urge to ask why
balmy condor
definitely not single target
lament junco
poison bomb, toxic blade, haste > crit?
balmy condor
toxic blade won't exist
but yeah
but you honestly just should not care
its pre patch
lament junco
because im back to raid right now, and my group is on farming nzoth... and im trying to see what i need to focus to have a good dps xD
lament junco
truth
balmy condor
I assume if you're in here asking what the build should be
you're not selling mounts
lament junco
im not actualy, im recently back
drifting cloud
well you can still get them for your raiding team
lament junco
thats the idea :p
balmy condor
ye
but honestly we don't know what's gonna be good
meta might just be run sub
or run outlaw
who knows
upbeat tinsel
what are the general thoughts on covenants for shadowlands m+/raiding? has it really been fleshed out or do they all suck except necrolord
drifting cloud
but yeah its impossible to predict
balmy condor
slaughter is okay
drifting cloud
because the differences between the specs could be massive
balmy condor
night fae is a little jank, but might be good
drifting cloud
with azerite traits ontop of all the sl stuff
balmy condor
kyrian is OMEGATROLL
upbeat tinsel
does slaughter poison actually do more damage than deadly at this point or is it more the conduit stuff?
drifting cloud
maybe DD is just scaled so it now does 30% of our dmg, who knows 😄
or maybe sub is just 30% better than the other 2
balmy condor
slaughter does do more
lament junco
well, thanks to tell somethings xD ill keep looking here for more infos, gtg ;*
upbeat tinsel
I did a few m+ that didnt end in critical errors or soft-locks of the dungeon and it seemed like maybe assassination was decent on beta
with necrolord covenant
I kind of figured it wouldn't be very good with how currently propped up it is by 3x SS 3x EB for aoe damage
fallow otter
Storming gonna singlehandedly going to stop me bothering with daggers in m plus lol
jolly comet
i could see when we get more levels in the conduits
it being ok
but SND makes me sad
strange python
With crit build do you Garrote-rupture-Garrote-vendetta-toxic blade- mutilate to build combo and then envenom for opener?
balmy condor
openers depending on build/azerite are listed in the ravenholdt guide
upbeat tinsel
if you have shrouded suffocation for some reason
upbeat tinsel
yeah not sure why I assumed opener meant raiding, oop
low girder
lol
strange python
Yeah with crit build 3 ss and 2 eb
upbeat tinsel
so are you talking like a boss opener in a m+?
strange python
Yeah
upbeat tinsel
sounds good, bote before TB if that's a thing you want to use
strange python
Ok sweet just playing around nothing much to do
upbeat tinsel
I've sure been doing that wrong a while, what's the logic behid after? doesn't doing it after potentially net you one less TB buff envenom or not really
balmy condor
the crit damage buff is 5 seconds
if you bote before you're literally just wasting 20% of the buff
(sorta)
you get a tb and 2 envenoms instead of 3 envenoms
and those 3 envenoms, all in the tb window, fully buffed
kinda big
the tb, not that big
strange python
What’s a good rogue pve streamer to watch and learn from? I know there’s the streaming channel but ppl r playing other classes
balmy condor
in here, seli, raz, and yoppa are all fantastic sin rogues
off the top of my head
ryfie is also a very nice guy, he's a m+ dude
I stream my keys too but I'm not all that good
its mostly so vel and koffing can make fun of me
strange python
Thank you thank you I’ll give all them and you a follow
strange python
Ty bote after tb
balmy condor
np
drifting cosmos
Yea ryfie has his own discord which has very helpful info
magic fossil
guys, sorry for the newbie question, we ar ok for SL? or sub is the way to go
shrewd night
We'll let you know after tuning happens.. Soooo around midnovember.
minor thicket
Do yoppa and or raz have a YouTube channel where they make vids or no
limber lion
Feelsbad being in a guild that never reclears mythic so I'm stuck with Clockwork heart chestplate and 470 offhand 😢
dull crypt
does tortured fleshbeast hc maybe sim better for you ceverion?
limber lion
No, the 480 clockwork heart still sims better.
The only upgrades are from mythic Cara
surreal solar
Feint only covers aoe, if others are getting hit at the same time, give it a try, if you’re the only one taking dmg, it doesn’t do anything for it
strange python
hello everyone, I have a question:
I am saving up my echoes for Sept 1st when gushing comes out to feel how great it is for pvp, but do you think Expedient is moreso worth it?
There is an expedient vendor atm for rank 1, do you think its worth investing in or would I be better off waiting for gushing?
Just looking for some input, please let me know!
surreal solar
pvp is primarily gushing focused afaik, if not vers, expedient loses a lot because most are running 25-30% haste in arena
strange python
do you think expedient is ever worth it at rank 1?
surreal solar
with Prepatch likely Sept 22nd/29th it's also not really a huge "get it now"
no
exp1 isnt worth buying
modern schooner
How’s sin in m+ for SL?
thin stump
I guess watch Selis stream he play it atm
molten ice
heya, this is my rogue (nychtelia) can u explain me why wow analyser says that i snapshoted my garrote in a bad way?
placid dawn
well, there are a couple things wrong at the start already
the opener is wrong, dont do vendetta as your first ability
then, you exsang on a rupture that isnt full duration
and you dont vanish garrote after the exsang one ends
then you used vanish at 83 seconds to apply garrote, at that point, its better to wait and use it with vendetta + exsang(after looking at fight length, this is not true anymore, better to use it somewhere than nowhere. Still better to use it on opener so some of its duration is buffed by vendetta though)
at 96s you exsang a garrote thats almost falling off and a rupture that is also not full duration
minor thicket
Theres is literally no need to even buy corruptions any more
Unless you’re chasing CE
This expansion is done
placid dawn
@molten ice I hope it doesnt sound to critical, just mayor mistakes in cd usage there
molten ice
oh by all means give any tips u can 🙂
placid dawn
go read up on the opener, it is mayor dps increase if you do it correctly
nimble tinsel
@molten ice To answer your specific question, the suggestions at the bottom of wowanalyzer actually explains it as a more general rule. You overwrote your snapshotted Garrote. Try to always let a snapshotted Garrote expire before applying a non buffed one. Try checking those out for some additional basic best practices that will largely improve your play in addition to the specifics Divne recommended.
quasi hill
Hey, do you guys this at this point going maldraxxus is the same no-brainer like going condemn with warrior ?
urban gale
nothing is a no brainer when no one knows what the actual numbers will be
quasi hill
Uhm, okay...
urban gale
whats weird
surreal solar
numbers aint in stone, rogues have seen the least updates so we're likely to see them soon, sure, right now Bone Spike looks good, but with conduit plays Slaughter no longer looks horrid
hybrid harness
we also just saw few classes have their cov abilities get reworked in how they function so those are still on the table for rogues as well.
surreal solar
^^^^^
urban gale
my suspicion is one or two of ours will very likely be reworked
no way to be sure of course
hybrid harness
yep yep
wet ruin
@nimble tinsel wowanalyzer is just shit, don't use it
nimble tinsel
I mean, that's mostly fair too, but they were referencing that tool in the original question, and the tool's suggestions were accurate in answering it.
But yes, generally use Wowanalyzer with a fairly large grain of salt
subtle drift
!covenants
Is there a thingy where we can see which Covenant is the best ATM?
!shadowlands
!sl
prisma monolithBOT
Shadowlands release: 59 days 16 hours 7 minutes 21 seconds
strange python
Warlock
hybrid harness
if youd scroll up about 4 or 5 comments youd see the answer mostly
vestal wren
!mystler
prisma monolithBOT
Mystlers Shadowlands Notes: http://tiny.cc/p8ljsz
balmy condor
@placid dawn it works on the original hit, yes
@modern schooner sin atm is looking pretty weak, outlaw meta remains strong. Tuning might help a little, but theres a lot of ramp time, and we lost a lot from SS/EB Not existing
@subtle drift atm its bonespike or slaughter for most people. Bonespike is overtuned, and will probably be nerfed, slaughter looks okay, night fae is probably decent with all the stealth legendaries, but kinda jank and weak atm, kyrian is literally trolling out of your mind
vale merlin
Hello im new to rogue and i just wanted some info on how to use the spell "shiv" in shadowlands , it seems to not change my poison damage when a poison is already aplied. how does this spell work and how would you use it?
fleet whale
if you are in ptr
that part of shiv isn't in till like level 58
but when you do get that perk of shiv you probably just use it like Toxic Blade
vale merlin
oh i see , thats probably where my confusion came from i was testing it at a lower level on ptr. i can figgure the rest out myself thank you verry much @fleet whale
vale merlin
what is concidered to be the best pvp covenant for assas atm?
balmy condor
Probably bonespike
strange python
Venthyr
subtle drift
Thanks Whispyr.
Want to play Venthyr since they was announced.
But min/maxing dmg is prio #1
vale merlin
i heard somewhere that slaugther removes your wound poison while it is up though is that true?
strange python
Snd heal, Slaughter steal, leeching Posion with poison conduit and MP
quick creek
Is the bloodfang legendary any good?
strange python
Its bugged
vale merlin
@balmy condor is that a bugg or is it intended?
balmy condor
Hard to tell which legendaries/conduits/convenent will be good
We’re waiting on tuning
That’s intended
balmy condor
Considering it’s a copy paste of deadly poison I would hardly say we have 0 idea
grizzled jay
Slaughter right now consumes your poison on the first hit then gives it back on the 2nd
balmy condor
You can make educated assumptions
grizzled jay
That was changed a few builds ago from not doing that. So we dunno if new Slaughter behavior is bug or intended
balmy condor
Sim
strange python
balmy condor
Just sim
strange python
true
subtle drift
Second though
strange python
my stats are literal garbo
balmy condor
Can’t say that dach
strange python
so its just nice to ahve dice
balmy condor
Also can’t say that tmb
grizzled jay
Always take gem
balmy condor
That’s strictly not true
quick creek
So knowing tuning is not done, which legendaries feel good for assassination so far?
balmy condor
But only works on application
grizzled jay
Whispyr sleeping on Shadowdust
subtle drift
Nice
grizzled jay
Homie please sim
balmy condor
Better to sim
strange python
they both sim almost the same
balmy condor
Then why you asking us
strange python
because I feel like
subtle drift
Play with the passiveone sou you have one worry less if you don't have a vendetta macro
grizzled jay
Then choose that
strange python
but
loud light
🤔
strange python
the otehr one feeels better for overall
subtle drift
Sim on 3 minutes and 5 minutes Singletarget
grizzled jay
I'm going to kneedrop you
loud light
feeeeelycraft
strange python
lmao
balmy condor
I can confirm that 1% haste is approximately 0.518% better on average across 17 pulls and 3% mastery only gives you 572 dps
So we can infer that you should sim
Cause no one here has any idea
We’re not fucking robots
strange python
LMAO
subtle drift
strange python
see
balmy condor
Could’ve just used moroes for that
fleet whale
alliance could be the meta for Nathria though
fleet whale
i mean, semi-hardcore/casuals still look at what meta does
even if they really don't have to
just look at how many people have linked wowmeta.com in all the discords
jolly comet
whats wrong with wowmeta seems pretty consistent 
loud light
world first race is just going to be extremely dumb if so but I trust limit running all dwarves during testing will have motivated blizzard to do something about it before it goes live
balmy condor
wowmeta uses very advanced statistical analysis, they said so themselves, must be legit
fleet whale
i mean it would be a first if alliance could have some sort of racial advantage in pve
fleet whale
yeah but people will talk about it on the forums/reddit/discord anyway
jolly comet
"why did blizz make ally so good now i have to transfer this is some fucked up shit"
fleet whale
some heroic geared ele shaman probably
jolly comet
"my guild only does normal i need to be dwarf to cleanse these bleeds."
modern birch
nub question. if i have 4cp do i use another mutilate to cast envenom or do i just do 4cp envenom
balmy condor
are you playing with vigor or deeper
modern birch
vigor
balmy condor
then you finish
modern birch
gotcha, ty
balmy condor
deeper would be mut till 5
tropic ocean
not sure which is more advanced this channel or wowmeta
strange python
anyone down to look at a sim quick, wondering if i could improve anything . my gear and corruptions are all over the place lol
balmy condor
sure
strange python
tropic ocean
do you have blood of the enemy by any chance
strange python
yea rank 1
tropic ocean
and condensed life force?
strange python
which ones should i try and upgrade first?
tropic ocean
you can up them simultaneously
lucid is few dailies
conflict is capping arena
breath is uldum reputation
(if u have them r3 on any other char u can just grind echoes and buy from npc)
strange python
i see
lyric grail
something wrong i thought i get more dps?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jXWCf1HVyywqMShJjsrE5c
tropic ocean
use haste food
instead of main stat
get better gloves
sim deadly navigation weapon enchant vs masterful
balmy condor
^
deadly sims higher
~180 dps
at least with clf
equipped is highest bote combination
from the single sim I ran
dire spoke
rookie numbers
balmy condor
fun
fleet whale
just submitted it as a bug though
balmy condor
yeah that sounds unintentional
fleet whale
cause seal fate literally says melee abilities
low girder
Does seal fate work with eg. Slaughter
fleet whale
idk, it works with ambush though
fleet whale
i can't tell from wowhead
low girder
It's useless for sin so not many people are testing lol
low girder
Just when you said shiv didn't work I thought of it
That'll be later on though
Similar to sub isn't it
Need some conduit ranks
fleet whale
it was earlier today on general
marble hemlock
well, assa only has 1 valuable and 1 not-even-mediocre st potency conduit
so picking up the one for slaughter is actually nice
marble hemlock
assuming bonespike will get shafted a bit, venthyr seems like a solid option due to decent soulbind choices
he only posted a sub one, yes
fleet whale
i thought slaughter worked with blindside now
keen dome
beside legendaries and conduits, i haven't seen a lot of feedback regarding the soulbinds themselves. What's the beta-people feeling regarding some of the dmg-related abilities ?
young dust
good night, guys! need some help on when you use each cooldown in mythic n'zoth. Use it on cooldown as long as it's available again for burning down the boss?
dark crag
Yes
Have cds ready for burn phases and after that pretty much on cd up to the last use. You want that with the dmg buff
balmy condor
first set of bashers, and then on nzoth over and over
scarlet sequoia
proper solstice
hey guys a question. What is the MH/OH assasination roag enchants. For boss fights
balmy condor
should sim yourself
usually it's quick nav and then either masterful or deadly nav
most people will use deadly, but if you got a lot of crit or some weird stat spaghetti, masterful will be better
bronze spindle
Why is it that we do
- Garrote
- Rupture
- Garrote
Why is the second garrote there as well?
bronze spindle
So that is the most beneficial opener we have, right
balmy condor
if you have SS traits, yes
bronze spindle
Alright, thank you! 🙂
balmy condor
np
bronze spindle
Is there perhaps a good youtube video so get caught up with assassinations current state?
balmy condor
the guides up top should do just fine
youtube guides quickly go out of date and often have misinformation and clickbait
I wouldn't recommend it
bronze spindle
Ah okay! Why is it that Elaborate Planning is taken over Master Poisoner?
bronze spindle
I see!
scarlet hedge
Might change if you run Venthyr in Shadowlands as its still a poison.
bronze spindle
Well, I look forward to some changes away from corruption
scarlet hedge
Preaching to the choir
steep obsidian
venthyr coevenant kind of felt shit tbh for sin
unless they have reworked it recently that im not aware of
bonspike felt about a billion times better to play
amber quail
ventyr needs a reworrk: there is a "copy" of ambush+lethal poison. i feel good the bone spike.
imho many things need a rework for sin
placid dawn
guys, i need help with a log. I did only 98k dps when my sim for 3min is 110k
balmy condor
question 1: was it a 3 minute fight
placid dawn
I think I played aside from the last 30s when i was lagging a bit, not sure if that is enough to be 12k less dps
yes, 2min 45s or so
2.54
scarlet hedge
Well you cant really say know how Venthyr will be untill we get ranked versions of the conduits for instant poison damage and the crit increase
placid dawn
12k variance oof
balmy condor
no
a 3 min sim, is not quite a 3 min sim
default fight length variance in simcraft is 20%
so when you sim a 3 min, you're actually getting 180 seconds +-36
so you're getting anywhere from 2:24 to 3:36 fight lengths
anything higher than 3 minutes, will obviously get a second cast of CLF in
there are of course things you did wrong, you are only human after all
no second potion for example
no potion at all as a matter of fact
that will definitely hurt
your raid also does not have a monk debuff for phys damage
that all combo'd together with your sim getting 2 CLF casts off sometimes
will account for the 12k you seek
placid dawn
makes sense, thanks 🙂
balmy condor
no problem
also no rune :P
when you just sim with the default settings, you also sim using all buffs, debuffs, potions, double potions, rune
it goes full send on everything minus vantus
placid dawn
Yeah, I'm usually happy if I'm somewhat close to sim, but this time it was quiet a big difference
Also, first week using Gale, happy I don't have to use shit coral again
balmy condor
2:54 is almost the worst kill time imaginable for CLF
that's the reason why the other rogue stomped you into the ground
if you're curious
balmy condor
yeah, that also helps
placid dawn
And full socket, I'm missing 4
balmy condor
I'm saying out of the things you can control
placid dawn
Good enough for me and my guild 🤣
tropic ocean
1 corruption and 1 socket is not what makes him do that more damage than you
he plays his rotation better
you overwrite garrotes
ruptures, too
and he generally uses more spells in the same amount of time than you do
placid dawn
well, he has much more haste so he can use more spells
lime musk
Is the mind flay on shard of the black empire worth keeping on it?
tropic ocean
if you dont have anything better yes
@placid dawn he does not have "much more" haste than you
infact with guardian he probably has less than you
even so with galecallers
placid dawn
he does have more uptime in rupture and garrote, but i have way more in CT
and he does have way more haste though, mechagon rings + 1 expedient is quite a lot i would say
tropic ocean
its not an opinion base
🙂
he has better uptime on the dots, because he refreshes them properly
you don't
placid dawn
yea, i know that
tropic ocean
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
placid dawn
he still has 20% less uptime on CT than me and it still did more dps than mine
tropic ocean
most of those will have a function to show when to refresh
placid dawn
I usually only let the dots drop when they are exsang or subterfuge garrote
placid dawn
Like I said though, my uptime on CT is 88%, his is 68
tropic ocean
yeah
and thats why you should not compare the dps of it
I know its often hard to swallow but to improve should just look at naked facts
he has mechagon ring set and he has 1 more expedient
(realistically need to compare your severe vs his expedient) however
you have 485 mainhand, he doesn't
you have gcb, he doesn't
tropic ocean
i dont know him but the gear is not the issue
its the rotation + uptime
are you in attack range 100% of the time?
placid dawn
I am, only go out when the boss does the pool thing in the ground
dull crypt
has anyone had any experience with nzoth bugging out because he dies too fast
tropic ocean
are you 100% sure?
you have a high difference in melee hits on the boss
he hit the boss 100 times more than you thats y im asking
placid dawn
I am pretty sure
I had some lag for the last 30s of the fight though
still, i have less hits
tropic ocean
it can happen pretty fast without noticing because of how inaccurate the boss hitboxes are
if you track your dots better and fix the refreshment issue that should net you a solid 5-6k dps increase for that fight
placid dawn
Could be, is melee range shorter than ability range?
swift timber
no
tropic ocean
on an ability that does 30% of your dmg?
yeah
especially when you constantly overbuff it
or to phrase it differently
on a fight that is 2.54 you lost 22 seconds of rupture and 37 seconds of garrote
that could've been invested in other abilities
placid dawn
37 seconds of garrote? But it has a higher uptime than rupture
tropic ocean
yes
you overwrote 37 seconds of rupture that could've been pandemiced
and I think if I see it correctly
you also overwrite exsanged rupture?
make sure you track it to not refresh exsanged rupture inside pandemic
should've put a full rupture before exsang
steel ridge
okay guys, i have a somewhat of a decision to make what to socket
knowing my luck, i will get either a socketed dagger or trinket in the next mythic clear....
i have got 3 sockets and 2 Exp3 in in the bag
balmy condor
Also he may have clipped the first rupture slightly
placid dawn
I usually only rupture when it's less than 7 seconds and overwrite for exsang
balmy condor
But the other ruptures are left to tick fully, only being refreshed ~20 seconds later. A full exsang’d rupture is 18.2
So I’m not sure what you’re looking at to see that
balmy condor
6 cp pandemic rup is 36.4
tropic ocean
next rupture 2.29
tropic ocean
yeah and we want what before we do exsang?
balmy condor
Wait what are we talking about
Are we talking about the overwriting or nah
on a fight that is 2.54 you lost 22 seconds of rupture and 37 seconds of garrote
Is this pandemic’d time
I’m curious on the numbers here
He indeed did not full pandemic the rupture before the vanish/exsang if that’s what you’re talking about
But 37 seconds of garrote is ~20% of that fight
balmy condor
What is that in reference to
tropic ocean
is 17 sec exsangd duration
even less
because he didnt immediately exsang after it
so this dot will run out
before vendetta ends
being exsanged
is what im saying
balmy condor
We agree on that then
tropic ocean
so there should've been anotehr rupture before exsang
maybe i didnt state it clearly enough
low steeple
What does Shiv do exactly? Same as Toxic Blade? Sorry im new to Shiv, started in wod but not as a rogue
steel ridge
it will be replacing toxic blade but retain the same functionality in SL
low girder
worth noting it will not have the toxic blade portion in prepatch
that happens at lvl 52
jk 56
balmy condor
PVE functionality is toxic blade, but with some added benefits
Mind numbing + shiv removing an enrage would be useful in m+ on raging for example
low steeple
Ah i see... and in pvp? Any point of using shiv?
low girder
amplifies crippling poison
low steeple
Can dispell enrage for example?
low girder
and yes, that too
low girder
depending on which poison you have
unless we can still have both on at the same time by then
i think it's also not dodgeable?
or is that going away
i'm not totally certain what happened to it after it became a pvp talent
low girder
last i remember it went through evasion but could be wrong, could also have changed since then
balmy condor
Yeah the issue is that the damage multi on first introduction used a really dated calculation right
So it depends on what shiv code they stole
If it was the same dated hit stuff as the damage calc, theres a good chance it’s able to be dodged
But idk
Would test but can’t be asked going on ptr for that
low girder
i'd have to duel someone and zz
balmy condor
Ye
low girder
but yeah, it'll at least amp crippling/numbing in pvp, so applications there
red pagoda
kinda stupid that you have to use a (minor) damage cd if you want to dispel enrage on a target
copper hazel
think of it like a lil bitch slap to get someone out of a bad mood
true wharf
anyone know where the stealth button is located in the keybinding interface?
nvm, found it
iron valve
it may be better to actually put it on a bar so you don't accidentally unstealth
young dust
Have cds ready for burn phases and after that pretty much on cd up to the last use. You want that with the dmg buff
@dark crag thanks you and @balmy condor
grim dock
idk if the enrages in these dungeons just largely arent dispellable or it's bugged but everytime i shiv an enrage with numbing on nothing happens
iron valve
red border or orange border
honest skiff
Hearing assassination is feeling almost identical to BFA. Anybody have any feedback on that?
tiny finch
any tricks for not reseting the boss while vanishing for the 2nd garrote bleed? trying to clear old content, its a pain in the ass
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt
tiny finch
on bosses
strange python
well then you have no chance in 99% of the cases
tiny finch
im at chromatic anomaly on Nighthold
strange python
thats just how it is
tiny finch
skorpyron i managed to do it, but i resetted this boss 3 times
well shit
thanks for the feedback nonetheless
strange python
bis gear for rogue?
tiny finch
sin guide on pins have a list if im not mistaken
dark citrus
siming character is best way to find bis for your character/build... look at pins for suggestions
tiny finch
on ravenholdt
specifically for azerite pieces, the rest you just sim.
heck, sim everything
strange python
ok thx
dull crypt
vanish and staying in combat just means you garrote megaquick into vanish and pray
dark citrus
a few catch all goods in trinkets like vita charged and alchemy trink
tiny finch
@dull crypt yeah im getting some resets on boss. maybe due to my suboptimal MS, i play with 150 - 250ms
dull crypt
That wont help yeah
tiny finch
will just go outlaw for guldan and pray
dark citrus
when i run visions I remove the vanish off my bar before the final boss, cause my fat fingers sometimes accidentally have hit it and messed me up reseting it
dull crypt
At least vanish isnt on gcd
tiny finch
i manged to kill it 1 month ago, so just need good rolls
if you vanish pre illidan phase, does the fight resets?
Mythic Guldan
tiny finch
yeah didint work, had to go outlaw
balmy condor
Happens
cyan bone
How is division ring good? Is it just bugged on dummies?
I was told its 100% uptime as it proccs of dots but it doesnt
honest vessel
it's 100% uptime anyway
you dont rely on dots to proc it
just be behind the guy
and you'll always have the haste buff
just be behind him once every 15 seconds or whatever when the debuff is falling off to reproc it
balmy condor
It procs off dots, but you still have to positionally trigger it
gray shard
Ok looks like SL makes me an assa rogue xd hellow guys 😄 hope u don’t hate me because I played outlaw
swift timber
crimson terrace
no
crimson terrace
i could be wrong, I'm only going based off of the rogue streamers. they all seem to play sub for raid prog
balmy condor
Sin might be fine
crimson terrace
yeah, i don't see it being bad for ST
balmy condor
But sub is just better atm due to a couple bugs
crimson terrace
and cleave
gray shard
I mean I even heard outlaw will be the best for raiding
gray shard
Did anything change with bone spike or will all specs still take it
crimson terrace
no king rules forever, unless you're lock
crimson terrace
feral is doing well in raid testing
crimson terrace
Bone spike nerf will hurt
the thing is slaughter won't work with the sub lego, which is currently really strong
gray shard
But do we need the nightfae vanish as subs
crimson terrace
yeah, i should of elaborated. I think once bone spike is nerfed that will be an indirect buff to assass
balmy condor
Night fae seems to be weaker
gray shard
Hm still waiting for my beta key -.-
Killed nzoth now a 4th time maybe they send one now
crimson terrace
is there any guides to getting into actual theory crafting?
feelcrafting only gets the convo going a lil
balmy condor
Learn simulationcraft
crimson terrace
how much is the sub for that?
balmy condor
Simulationcraft is open source
crimson terrace
ahhh
gray shard
I mean if you really wanna use it to the highest level u can support their pattern and get a lot of bonuses
balmy condor
That’s Raidbots
crimson terrace
is it like a programming language?
balmy condor
Simulationcraft is the application that raidbots runs
crimson terrace
simulationcraft, or an api
balmy condor
It’s how we all sim
gray shard
Oh u mean the oldschool full self made simcraft
balmy condor
Yeah
loud light
and has a fancy ui over top
balmy condor
Raidbots is just a skin and a server slapped on simulationcraft
How do you think it simulates people
gray shard
Sounds about right xd
loud light
simcraft is written in C++, by the way
balmy condor
You don’t need to know it though
crimson terrace
oh ok
marsh wharf
does anyone know how to get rid of the sharpened blades bug? i've ignored it for months but it's really starting to bother me ._.
balmy condor
You can still test and edit APL’s without going into the code
crimson terrace
does swaping specs work?
loud light
yeah I wasn't clear what "getting into theorycrafting" meant
marsh wharf
I've removed my gear i've reinstalled swapped specs and done a wow fix and nothing removes it lol
crimson terrace
lmao
marsh wharf
i haven't had sharpened blades in over a year and a half it doesn't even exist anymore and i still get that stupid buff
balmy condor
Have you opened a ticket with a gm?
crimson terrace
^
marsh wharf
yea they just give me the generic "report this bug on the forums" response
balmy condor
That’s not a ticket
marsh wharf
and there's tons of reported threads about it but no fix
crimson terrace
you can try casting poisoned knife assuming you haven't tried that already
gray shard
Just use poisened knife 
marsh wharf
poisoned knife just resets it to 0 xD
crimson terrace
marsh wharf
and it doesn't do extra damage either
gray shard
balmy condor
Make a new character
marsh wharf
gray shard
Yeah we all gonna reroll to sub anyways
balmy condor
You’re asking us to fix a bug that even the gm’s apparently don’t know what to do with
marsh wharf
it exists when i'm sub also lol
balmy condor
We ain’t gods
gray shard
Or to warlock because the will have 2 out of the 3 best specs
marsh wharf
I thought you were D:
balmy condor
I’m far from a god
marsh wharf
affliction just got a mega nerf on beta
cut the damage from malefic rupture in half lmao
crimson terrace
what about destro?
marsh wharf
no changes recently
crimson terrace
well best ST and AoE was kinda op
marsh wharf
do you guys like the new sub stuff? like how shadow dance is back to a cooldown instead of charges
crimson terrace
hell yeah
balmy condor
It’s still charges
marsh wharf
i've played around with it a bit on the pre patch ptr but i haven't played sub since mop so i can't really tell