Limiting conduit swaps and covenant swaps actually naturally limits your simming to begin with
#assassination
balmy condor
Yes it’s garbage
But you’ll have to make sacrifices in your choices, and it won’t be as easy as “well sim it”
umbral rapids
Yes it’s garbage
@balmy condor you can stop hefe lol
Nah I’ll still sim it
I’ll just sim before I pick
balmy condor
So in that regard, he did actually sort of keep the promise didn’t he
main warren
the same way a politician keeps their promises i guess
willow rapids
I mean there'll probably be souldbind interface on raidbots to switch there how many times you want to sim
umbral rapids
Someone somewhere is gonna sim every combination or whatever and we’ll just grind for that one
balmy condor
Oh I’m not saying you won’t be able to sim
But I focus more on m+ for example
And you might raid
And symfony might pvp
low girder
oh don't you fret, it'll be far more than one person
balmy condor
And we all focus differently
balmy condor
The point is
umbral rapids
It sucks
balmy condor
And saying “this best me do”
balmy condor
And there’s no way to sim how you want to play
So you either sim for what you can be optimal in
Or you decide to balance yourself for what you enjoy
At the end of the day, most of us plebs won’t see the content in a timely enough manner for it to be a huge difference
Limit will clear the raid
And the 2-3% people will be behind with their shit choices will come a couple weeks later
And it will be fine
willow rapids
Well it's not as simple now either. You'll probably end up simming what averages out the best, if you do more than 1 endgame style, which might end up feeling like shit
umbral rapids
@balmy condor just because I’m not WF raider doesn’t mean I can be forced to play with shit choices
Like, there’s very little chances I even get CE next tier, but that doesn’t mean I want to be fucked in raid because I mainly play m+
balmy condor
Yeah but you won’t be fucked
umbral rapids
I don’t know if that makes sense
Well if the conduits are the same for both content sure
If they’re not, yeah kinda fucked lol
low girder
the bigger one for me is aesthetics vs performance, if necrolord is best for raid (which is what i do and prioritize) and i have to be ugly i'll be very miffed
balmy condor
You just gotta move away from the mindset that 0.5% dps on a conduit is going to break you
Being suboptimal is okay
There’s always some clown with bigger tendie rng than you
umbral rapids
If it’s a choice then sure. I can make the choice to be suboptimal. Problem is the game is forcing me to be suboptimal
willow rapids
Ye, at a rational level, I know it might not matter at my level, but at a psychological/emotional one, we'll have to see how people in general end up feeling. I predict they won't like it once they experience the system and are told they don't have the 'potential' to have full power if they do more than 1 endgame, but we'll have to see
balmy condor
And that’s fine
umbral rapids
If it’s a choice then sure. I can make the choice to be suboptimal. Problem is the game is forcing me to be suboptimal
This is what feels super bad for me
I play wit suboptimal traits sometimes cause I cba. It’s my choice, I live with it.
balmy condor
Yeah that’s the difficult part though isn’t it
If you can choose to be the best no matter what you do
Then it’s no longer a choice, is it
umbral rapids
There’s a lot more problems with the covenant system than just that though to be honest
balmy condor
I don’t think that it’s an issue
vestal dune
But what are the upsides of having these "meaningful choices" compared to the downsides of not being able to try fun/new builds, optimize your char and feel complete?
umbral rapids
And why blizzard feels like they have do something about it
balmy condor
I actually think it should be sandbox-y as hell
But I’m putting myself in blizzards shoes for a second
And it makes sense to me
main warren
the upsides are...you made a meaningful choice so you get a gold star for playing the game the way you're told to and not the way you want to
umbral rapids
In every single game I ever played there’s a meta
It can shift, blizzard can shift it
But forcing unnecessary choices is the less intuitive and most obnoxious way to deal with it
It only creates frustrations
umbral rapids
AND
It only creates frustration in the semi-hardcore / hardcore community. Which is the super minority.
And it virtually doesn’t even affect most the playerbase
main warren
im not really even sure the semi-hardcore is that small
balmy condor
Depends on your definition
umbral rapids
Well it’s tough to define
main warren
yeah thats true
balmy condor
But there’s definitely a lot more people that don’t care
vestal dune
It affects everyone in the sense that nobody can try new builds because they saw somebody doing something cool
balmy condor
Compared to people that do
umbral rapids
@vestal dune a lot of people won’t give a flying fuck lol
main warren
certainly, yeah, but i dont think it's just this "1%" that gets tossed around a lot
umbral rapids
They won’t see a dungeon high enough to care ahout buffs or whatever
balmy condor
Ya
vestal dune
Then those people shouldn't care if everybody else can make a choice or not
umbral rapids
My point was that blizzard is making changes that effect negatively the most hardcore playerbase while literally not affecting the majority of the playerbase
Like.... it just doesn’t make sense
And I don’t see anything good come out of it
balmy condor
That’s blizz for ya
low girder
also see: master loot
umbral rapids
I can’t speak for master loot I wasn’t around
I’m just pissed I can’t pick my fav covenant lol
I love the lore and shit. It’s fascinating. I just do not want it in my dungeons please 😂
main warren
necro mog is pure ass
balmy condor
I enjoy kyrian
low girder
rip
umbral rapids
I mean, I faction changed and I picked belf instead of troll cause I don’t see myself using troll racial
balmy condor
But the covenant skill is uh
umbral rapids
So yeah
low girder
unfortunate choice
balmy condor
Yikes
umbral rapids
Funny cause on paper it doesnt sound bad
balmy condor
That being said
umbral rapids
At first glance
low girder
it sounds really good if you don't actually play a rogue
balmy condor
I don’t mind sepsis
umbral rapids
Lol
umbral rapids
Me neither, it’s just the levelling from 50 to 60 is gonna be meaningless as fuck if I already know what I’m gonna pick at the end
low girder
i wouldn't mind venthyr or kyrian if they end up being good and ER gets remade or something
umbral rapids
It would be super fun to learn covenants then pick one I enjoy the story of
low girder
it's really just necrolord that i don't want to be
which is usually a pretty good spot to be if your plan is to just pick the best thing for what you're doing
hasty vale
Is bone spike still just heads nd shoulders better than the other covenant abilities?
dire spoke
gonna sim 130k tmrw 
steel ridge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tropic ocean
Infexious is a mastermind
This penalty is as follows:
From 0 to 25%, there's no penalty.
From 25% to 34%, there's a 10% penalty.
From 34% to 42%, there's a 20% penalty.
From 42% to 49%, there's a 30% penalty.
From 49% to 106%, there's a 40% penalty.
You can't get more than 106% from gear rating.
He was just way ahead of us
arctic walrus
so glad they continue to move us away from requiring to sim our characters by giving us stat weights 
shadow wedge
cinder ferry
Is CT suppose to be better at 60% haste, my sim doesn't show much of a difference?
arctic walrus
just keep simming, when you have enough haste it'll be better
unless you have a ttk trait then it wont ever pick ct because it's not worth then
steel ridge
This penalty is as follows:
From 0 to 25%, there's no penalty.
From 25% to 34%, there's a 10% penalty.
From 34% to 42%, there's a 20% penalty.
From 42% to 49%, there's a 30% penalty.
From 49% to 106%, there's a 40% penalty.
You can't get more than 106% from gear rating.
@tropic ocean wtf, whats that supposed to fix?
tropic ocean
uhm im not developing the game
arctic walrus
corruption stacking :^)
tropic ocean
but I guess its a try to make ilvl being a upgrade rather than stats
cuz if u have 34% haste your vers mastery piece will probably be better
due not having 20%
dr
steel ridge
yeah but proccs will catapult you way above that rating most of the time
steel ridge
yeah thats what i meant, that kinda not cool
tropic ocean
so when you are at 34% stat x you will sim, and most likely sim will tell you to switch enchant on weapon e.g. from haste to vers or mastery or whatever
warm parcel
Any raw rating
So procs that are raw rating get taxed aswell
Presumably
As its from your gear
steel ridge
and mainstat will be infinite
arctic walrus
and to think I was close to roasting that guy yesterday in wow gen weak 
warm parcel
I mean my first response was "youre doing something wrong" 
He insisted
I tried again
And a few more times
And then 
willow rapids
See the shitty thing I feel is not the dr caps, as much as blizz not informing this and making ppl guess
steel ridge
so basically blizz is trying to prevent classes from spiraling out of control
warm parcel
steel ridge
making things more easy to keep in check since people are hesitant to cross those DR borders
warm parcel
It could be a lot of things
steel ridge
oh noes i cant go over 25% or i will lose value kinda deal
warm parcel
Until they make a blue we wont really know why
steel ridge
i mean i am all for balanced stats, but only when those stats are actually worth equally... especially mastery should never be a dead stat you avoid like the plague
dire spoke
make agi great again
wet ruin
was this ever a problem? It is a problem now due to being able to stack stat% corruptions, but they are gone, so why make those changes
arctic walrus
crimson palm
umbral rapids
@wet ruin i thought the same, it's a weird change
indigo mulch
Is there any specific reason why Formless void isent giving me the -10 corruption?
oO
Using it as a minior obv
sage basin
Do you have another essence that's already giving 10 resist? It's a unique passive, can only gain the benefit from 1 essence.
indigo mulch
Aha! Thats why prob
Using botd. D: I dunno what to use when i don't need lucid dreams anymore
sage basin
For PvE purposes with sub or one of the other specs?
For assa (since we're in the assa channel), I haven't swapped lucid out.. just have more throughput with it cause of the energy refund and vers proc
sage basin
What type of content, M+, raid?
indigo mulch
We don't really raid anymore but i used to gear it towards raiding
hence the haste
I'm trying to gear outlaw on the side but its rough this late in the exp :p
arctic walrus
is there a reason you dont want to run formless
indigo mulch
Not at all. I'm just trying to figure out if there are better alternative once i progress
arctic walrus
outside of taking clf major this is the best setup you can get
last ingot
Can ass rogue (ilvl 480) solo Kings rest 0? (for mount run), I havent tried so far, just asking if anybody had
tropic ocean
yea
arctic walrus
swap shoulders go vita
steep plover
ye i run vita top gear just picked harlans cause dmg
swap shoulders?
to the pistoleers?
scarlet sequoia
scenic siren
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
astral pasture
how many fucking junkyard runs i have to do until the recursion or division rings drop..
scarlet sequoia
at least 1
astral pasture
im on 18 :/
overclocking dropped real quick but the other half just doesn't want to
tropic ocean
just keep going you'll get it champ
distant sable
Thinking of swapping out to the crit build in that guide in the pins since it seems to more fit my playstyle - any other suggestions gear wise (i've got another 475 dagger just not equipped yet and ignore the major essence was running visions earlier) - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gHac3TirHJAVYV2NmpqPFr
distant sable
Probably - debating how much i care enough to farm them since I don't raid Mythic at all and am mostly on cruise control for the rest of the expansion
last ingot
for exsang build is ss+dd the best combo for traits?
brazen gyro
the smoker guide in the pins is the best guide to go by right?
icy ember
hey just gettting into sin in the beta, what changes rotationally w/sin? i've played it during the jaina/nzoth last tier
grizzled jay
it plays the same except you press SnD every 40s
balmy condor
ye
icy ember
really?
balmy condor
blindside is a little different
icy ember
what legos are decent for us?
balmy condor
but we don't know if that's better
grizzled jay
all of them
icy ember
which one do you use tmb?
grizzled jay
nothing rn i havent tested on beta in a while
but Dashing Scoundrel is the winner for me
Smooths out the rotation a lot
balmy condor
only works on instant applications sadly
grizzled jay
also better with lesser secondary stats
grizzled jay
yah shit is bugged but
it should work as we expect
Bloodfang will be good in AoE assuming they buff its numbers
so will craft that as my 2nd legendary on all specs
proven moth
What we gonna do in prepatch when corruption it's byebye? Returning to doble dose build?
balmy condor
yeah basically
prepatch doesn't matter
and the TB part of shiv is already locked behind level 56 or something
so that's not happening
grizzled jay
yah you go Blindside and just spam for procs
grizzled jay
snd + poisons + alacrity
brazen gyro
will we run sang/crimson temp after prepatch
icy ember
so for today's raid testing, it is fine to treat shiv as toxic blade
icy ember
and we still run w/elaborate planning rather than blindside right
that is just aleveling thing we do
patent topaz
yes and exsang will be completely useless compared to alacrity im afraid
balmy condor
blindside seems pretty good
grizzled jay
Exsang needs a rework
idk what to
but it needing stupid high haste just to be competitive is dum lol
surreal solar
i mean, Venom Rush isnt even useful
red plaza
Exsang was the go to in Uldir right with triple SS? Did people just figure out that triple Double Dose was better, or was there something else that made exsang strong then?
balmy condor
it was just really strong
arctic walrus
low haste, only 3 azerite traits, lower envenom uptimes
patent topaz
SS was op
grizzled jay
Venom Rush is good for leveling
🙂
SS got nerfed during Uldir right
then Double Dose took over in EP
once crit got high enough
patent topaz
DD in bod as well
jolly comet
SS you will be missed
grizzled jay
im really surprised Alacrity wasn't SS, or some form of SS
but Alacrity was the easy dev solution
royal lantern
putting and tuning ss would have been effort
better just copypaste a %stat talent from another spec 
icy ember
so which soulbinds are we going for? any OP?
grizzled jay
Lethal Poisons + Main, Mangle + Covenant Potency + 1 Endurance with Dashing Scoundrel
is the setup im looking at
icy ember
isnt dashing scoundrel bugged, altho i would lean towards that on live servers
i was thinking that one
icy ember
arctic walrus
I believe the values are swapped around
surreal solar
wait, so mut does 5% bleed and env does 20% more per bleed.... hawt
grizzled jay
yah Mut is doing 5% more as bleed and Envenom gets +20% per bleed lol
which is probably not intended
icy ember
icy ember
SS pieces?
jolly comet
is doomblade effected by the necrolord bleed too?
so you get 80% more envenom dmg from garrote rupture the leg bleed and bone spike?
orchid warren
hey hey
orchid warren
what essences should I use?
grizzled jay
read wowhead guide
balmy condor
guide up top as well
grizzled jay
or guide in pins
grizzled jay
@balmy condor Has anyone checked if Scoundrel affects Sepsis
balmy condor
grizzled jay
man i wish Duskwalker's didn't suck so much
orchid warren
do I need rank 3 lucid though?
my damage feels kinda garbage tbh and I'm not sure what it is
is there any way of checking?
a lower ilvl sin rogue just came in and kinda blasted me out of the water
I was doing like 86k on hive (triple echoing and big crit) and he was only using single target
and focusing bosses
and he got like 76k
he's an alt aswell
balmy condor
maybe someone in your raid logged it
doesn't have to be just you
so I would check
orchid warren
nah it was a random pug
solar latch
use lucid i think if your low on haste cause when i got above 50 haste i simmed better with formless void
just sim everything usually is the answer here
orchid warren
hmm
yeah I dont even have overwhelming on any of my pieces anymore
now that I think of it I used to sim for higher a week ago
I'll see what I changed
I need to stack more corruptions aswell
expedient etc
solar latch
i think if you use topgear you can cleanse all items then put like 8 corruptions on all the pieces to see what sims for the best dps
balmy condor
that's how you would get to the 7xexp3 1xexp2 1xhm3/rp3 setup that was simmed like 3 months ago
grizzled jay
R3 Lucid is the best Essence in the game, you do want that
grave meadow
When using BOTE what is the rotation for a aoe pack?
grave meadow
so you use BOTE then Fan of knives 5 times ? doenst sound like bote is just doing baby dmg with fans then since your not fishing for Poison bomb in your bote extra crit dmg window
ty ill try it out
balmy condor
poison bomb is kinda garbo damage though
and I wouldn't run poison bomb except like crit build tyrannical
loud light
RIP legion poison bomb
balmy condor
and if you're running crit build, your fans are already way bigger than poison bomb
in which case it's not worth
grave meadow
ok
iron valve
bote fans with echoing blades isn't baby damage
royal lantern
@loud light dont say that
legion bomb can burn in hell
worst passive dmg ability they did in a long time
balmy condor
remember when we used a weakaura to scream at our tanks whenever our poison bomb procced
cause they couldn't see it
and it was a big part of our damage
royal lantern
"big"part
3assassination in the raid
who does the highest dmg?
the guy that had rng on his side with pb procs lol
i remember getting 4 or 5 procs in my opener on imonar once
balmy condor
just gotta wait for the agonizing stacks
royal lantern
and then died cus i stole tank aggro even thought i used tricks
grizzled jay
why are people on the forums still wanting Wrath-era hemo back
crimson palm
Cuz i was a god back then
grizzled jay
were you though
crimson palm
Honest word
grizzled jay
lol
Did the math and Subterfuge with two Ambushes does more dam than NS snapshotting Garrote. Have you seen similar results @crimson palm ?
strange python
What’s blue boi
rigid eagle
idk why sub isn't purple tbh
balmy condor
shadows are purple
rigid eagle
sub is so purple in game that we literally taste like grapes
balmy condor
outlaw deleted
vital haven
outlaw is fine as yellow
dire spoke
Pissgelb
agile gyro
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
glad smelt
Could be a dumb question but with all the haste you have with the exsang build, when people say the bleeds are faster does that also mean you have to reapply them much more often? Or just that they tick faster but still last the same duration with low amounts of haste
low girder
the latter
glad smelt
Gotcha
I’m really enjoying rogue after getting some more gear and the play style better down. Too bad expac is done now
dire spoke
@balmy condor are you ready for my big sim tmrw
balmy condor
No
calm rover
Have any of you found a legendary that is fun for you to use in dungeons in BETA as Sin?
balmy condor
Legendaries aren’t fun
The envenom one is bugged to scale envenom damage like crazy atm tho
That could be “fun”
grizzled jay
Bloodfang will be fun when the numbers are higher
dire spoke
lol
calm rover
alright cool, thanks for the reply
fleet whale
shiv conduit seems like a waste to me. Even though they "fixed" shiv damage it still hits like a pillow
grizzled jay
Lethal Poisons + Main, Mangle imo
scarlet sequoia
sudden trench
is recuperation only sub? not working in sin
vernal canyon
apparently its a leftover code from long ago
so 99% a bug due to be fixed soon(ish)
pastel hatch
Does any1 know if enrage dispell is not working with mind numbing on beta rn?
After using shiv ofc
next solar
took the last few days off, hows beta lookin?>
idle star
crap. cant se world quests. cant progress my covenant hall. PvP in covenant halls should be abolished too
balmy condor
the same it did a few days ago
icy agate
does doomblade work with serated blades from necro?
balmy condor
ye
heady pier
would you guys run 3x ss or 2x ss and 1 eb for mythic +
balmy condor
3ss
if you have big crit corruptions
I would run the 1eb
teeming this week kinda big
heady pier
other weeks you would do 3ss?
balmy condor
probably
idk pretty sketch tbh
3ss is the big one
but the crit scales the eb pretty hard
I would probably run the 3ss
balmy condor
CT in 90% of situations
in some high keys, you might want to consider PB
workshop for example
heady pier
yeah, that makes sense
balmy condor
unless you're running a haste build, and CT is higher single target
then obviously not XD
heady pier
thanks for the help, I appreciate it
balmy condor
np
heavy cradle
which covenant should i choose currently
balmy condor
bone spike
next solar
gonna feel weird during prepatch to see no corruption
will actually be a sigh of relief
urban gale
wow just got logic loop of division with leech and socket
does pairing with shorting still beat normal rings usually? i dont have overclocking yet. gonna sim, just wondering
balmy condor
probably yeah
weary lintel
Hello
What do you think is the best covenant for rogue assassination?
balmy condor
bone spike
void pecan
quartz creek
i sim higher with exsang + poison bomb than with crimson tempest, would i then drop tempest?
balmy condor
Sim higher in what with what trying to do what
balmy condor
Yeah you would drop tempest for single target
quartz creek
is it actually not worth using tempest on ST at all? Just keep it around for aoe?
royal lantern
if you are using the exsang build,with around ~60-70%haste CT is used on ST
you just hold the dot up all the time, but its used
minor thicket
Hey guys when will we start to see stuff about Slands stuff for rotation on pins and websites?
sand whale
@minor thicket if you're talking about an actual rotation to follow, be a while, not until release and probably not for a bit after but you know it's always been the same old rotation with a few bits and bobs thrown in
oh by that I mean I forget some people didn't play before legion but say current rotation but starting off with SND with whatever CP, bleeds, CDs + powers, etc, maintenance
carmine latch
How do u time the shroud cheese for last boss in temple for ph2?
strange python
@carmine latch this is the video man I’m not really good at explaining things enjoy! https://clips.twitch.tv/MiniatureIcyGiraffeJKanStyle
sacred basin
Bone spike is cool and all but the necrolords is my least favorite covenant :(
sacred yarrow
Tell ian
vestal wren
other covenants could be good too
hard to say what will be best, its possible that bone spike remains best but also that others beat it
heavy forum
Anyone got problem logging in to retail? Wow not responding everytime loading screen hits 100%.
heavy forum
Ty
main wharf
leather armor set for necrolords is just a deal breaker
sonic iris
where do you guys look at to find the next in line corruptions for mother?
drifting cloud
simple herald
sonic iris
tyvm!
simple herald
Damm Ryler was faster
north pond
so i know this corruption shit doesnt matter but should i buy a honed mind 3 to complete my build or just buy exped 2's and put on higher ilevel.. .thanks btw i know its pointless to care about it right now but i just want to do more dps tomorrow on raid. and i have 9k echos trying to figure out what to do
19k**
drifting cloud
exp2 and get cloak resist so you stay below 60 I guess
tawny jewel
is it still worthy to get versatile III on a recent 120 rogue? I'm currently priorizing the neck essences
red plaza
What are you trying to do? Raid/pvp/m+?
orchid warren
hey so is an extang build currently the best option for raiding?
hexed root
is there a good place for shadowlands rogue data atm?
strange python
@orchid warren yes
dire spoke
wowhead as usual has most info
orchid warren
for extang, what do I need mostly? tripe SS and crimson tempest?
balmy condor
Lots of haste
3x SS is good
Crimson tempest doesn’t matter though, that just pops in as a side effect of stacking all the haste
Not sure if expedient is going to be around again before prepatch though
void pecan
We'll get what? 2 weeks to play with "max" corruption before pre-patch?
balmy condor
Dunno
void pecan
I know we don't know, asking your opinion is all
Historically pre-patch on ptr to live has been 4-6 weeks
balmy condor
My best guess is prepatch on the 22nd or 29th of September
I don’t think it’ll push out to october
Although with corona and all that, really hard to tell
red plaza
Plus no release date yet, which is pretty weird
scarlet sequoia
balmy condor
Raz where’s the beta sims pl0x
dark citrus
Expedient II is out currently, then expedient I, III might not come around before prepatch
Mid-Late sept is next III I believe
Sept 8th, I was mistaken
May could get a few weeks of use in
I’m running stars III, 2 expedient 3 and 2 expedient 2 atm and do “okay” but still can’t touch someone whose corruption is tweeted right (mostly Unholy DK, fury war, and BM hunters run away with the DPS numbers in raid)
urban gale
in aoe when we multi rupture is it correct to use small cp ruptures?
assuming the mobs arent going to live long
my understanding is that rupture damage per second does change based on cp just duration
balmy condor
yeah using low cp ruptures is fine
but I wouldn't try and rupture everything with like 2cp ruptures just because
tawny jewel
@red plaza mostly m+ atm
balmy condor
envenoms will do more when things are that low
red plaza
mostly m+ atm
@tawny jewel I would go for essences first, mainly Bote and then save up echoes for severes and strike throughs. It’ll be good for outlaw too. I wanna say verse sets are mainly for those super high m+ keys where you need verse or else you’ll be one shot
dark citrus
In huge pulls I don’t rupture at all unless on a harder focus target... just garrote, garrote, garrote, garrote, CT, then FoK -> envenom on repeat
balmy condor
that sounds wrong
dark citrus
When I tried to rupture, it always did such low dmg because of the aoe going out things just died too fast
balmy condor
I mean in low keys sure
urban gale
yeah i mean presumably if things are living 3 seconds you should not spend any cp on rupture
dark citrus
This is in M+ that is on ~15s
balmy condor
yeah if you have a good group for 15's nothing is going to live very long
dark citrus
14-16s is my usual playground, more of a raid person which is totally diff
The garrote still tops my DPS, that empowered garrote is sooo good
balmy condor
It'll always do that
unless big pulls are lasting long enough, fok/eb actually pulls ahead in overall
but usually garrote is just huge
subt/ss pumps
dark citrus
My raid rotation looks like... stealth, vendetta + unbridled fury macro, garrote, garrote, rupture , exang, mutilate to 5-6 CP, CT... then refresh garrote/rupture after exang versions expire... then goes to upkeeping dots with few second before they expire, mutilating CP and envenoming when at 5-6 when the dot finishers don’t need to be pushed... 2nd exang is on cool down... I try to line up the 2nd vendetta with vanish and 3rd exang depending on how boss mechanics have spread them out
urban gale
i thought after a certain number of mobs ur supposed to just fok and ct over and over
balmy condor
sullen pagoda
balmy condor
you vendetta straight from stealth?
sullen pagoda
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
bruh.jpg
sullen pagoda
balmy condor
@urban gale yeah in 7+ you can CT instead of enven with haste build
urban gale
cool
strange python
Big brain
balmy condor
with a crit build you epweave
which is uh
kinda whatever
basically
until you die
dark citrus
I’ve looked at guide... what is the point of doing garrote, rupture, garrote... as opposed to garrote garrote, rupture and putting a full 6CP rupture on the target to exang
sullen pagoda
yep
you want to get 2 ruptures worth of duration in exsang
i mean "2"
pandemic
ye
dark citrus
Extra garrote tick I get, but I don’t understand “pandemic” please explain
sullen pagoda
when you refresh a dot it takes 30% of old timer into new one
balmy condor
yeah
strange python
Everything is in the guide
dark citrus
Guide doesn’t explain “pandemic”, the way these wonderful folks have... which I appreciate
balmy condor
so double garrotes instead of being 18 seconds, will be 23.4
and the rupture is like 34
dark citrus
It all makes sense now with it explained.
To be honest I’ve only been playing rogue for a couple months and back at wow for about 6... I do appreciate the help, and love the rogue/assassin play style more than I expected.
Seems I was doing the refresh correct though letting exangs expire and refreshing others, my weak aura is set to glow rupture ~7sec and garrote ~5 to tell me to refresh
steep ridge
But did you overwrite an empowered Garrot?
pseudo hamlet
Wait, so do we always use exang on the pandemic garrotes/ruptures? Or it's fine to use it just on fresh garrote/6CP rupture?
balmy condor
you want to max pandemic garrote and rupture before every exsang
tropic ocean
u only use it on refreshed ones
u dont exsang when your dots are in pandemic
unless i misunderstand u
runic kiln
how to make cara drop dagger
fleet thorn
hoping they tune assassination on Beta soon. Tried it in a dungeon and did barely any damage in comparison to group
balmy condor
ye sin is pretty weak atm
leaden spruce
yeah assasination has barely any changes
im thinking of going sub if they dnt do something with it
fleet thorn
so I cant tell if its troll or not
leaden spruce
funny how they buffed demon hunters and warlocks d espite being the most 2 overpowered classes in the game
balmy condor
that shit stain of a webpage
fleet thorn
is it basically noxxic?
balmy condor
ye
pseudo hamlet
@tropic ocean I meant when the rupture/garrote falls off and I put up the fresh ones and the exang is off the CD.
fleet thorn
cus I've had people refer to it as a decent site and others say its trash, but its been 50/50 impression-wise
fleet whale
i would imagine the lethal poison one is quite strong
fleet thorn
Aight had a bad gut feeling on them
fleet whale
wow meta is basically just WCL statistics but they use a noxxic format
and their tier listing thing is a joke
balmy wyvern
i've thought about taking the fan of knives one with 8% incr dmg and poison chance
for m+
but idk
fleet whale
isn't FoK damage like really low in SL
balmy condor
its better than live, but definitely way worse than eb
fleet whale
and there are probably more powerful versions of that conduit
fleet whale
what about outlul
balmy condor
outlul is for warrior wannabe's
balmy wyvern
how does sub feel in shadowlands?
balmy condor
same as it does now
fleet whale
people say it feels good
balmy condor
except it does damage
fleet whale
the weaponmaster akaari's shadow thing could be a problem though
blizz needs to tune that soon
balmy wyvern
any resources on how to play it/what's best
balmy condor
ye
fleet whale
or else sub will get knee jerk nerfed
balmy wyvern
i've only been playing assa on retail
balmy condor
there's guides in the sub channel
fleet whale
no full on guides yet for sl sub though
balmy condor
youtube can at most give you a vibe on how its playing
any rotational guide or whatever is pure feelycraft
fleet whale
the basic rotation won't be that much different though from live
balmy condor
ye
fleet whale
just SnD thrown in, fewer but burstier dances
balmy condor
grizzled jay
just so people can see that SnD does not ruin the spec and they can shut up about it
balmy condor
no one's saying that though
the complaint about snd is that it's boring uptime
and sin has enough of that
grizzled jay
nah a lot of people are saying that you literally cannot keep up snd, rupture, garrote, and tb at the same time lol
balmy condor
I've not seen or heard of any of these "a lot of people"
grizzled jay
p2 psychus as in the Decree? no its single target
winter oxide
yee, its hard to tell what damage is feintable vs what isnt lol
balmy condor
if its aoe, 90% of the time, you can feint
grizzled jay
good rule of thumb is that if it affects just you, its a single target effect. if it affects things around you (or someone else) it's aoe.
so Decree affects everyone, but the effect itself just targets you
M Jaina for instance has no aoe mechanics, its all single target effects
winter oxide
is stepping in anguish reduced or just the splash damage
grizzled jay
it would not be reduced i am pretty sure
crimson palm
Why would you ever feint and then step into anguish
dire spoke
@balmy condor bb ):
balmy condor
bb what
grizzled jay
bb-8
winter oxide
you wouldnt, im just curious what damage is mitigated vs what isnt because its not that clear
balmy condor
sure
dire spoke
uninstall game
patent topaz
use keybinds
dire spoke
sin is already easy mode, that's like cheating
don't think I can go 130k even with a whack ass socket setup
dire spoke
mh right that would be the only thing
I would play it on some bosses I guess
but that bitch wants more haste sockets then probably
balmy condor
its likely
balmy condor
he's a clicker
crimson palm
Raz still hasn't made the secret public?
balmy condor
raz link sim pls
scarlet sequoia
u will never find out
dire spoke
what a tragedy 
runic kiln
funny how they buffed demon hunters and warlocks d espite being the most 2 overpowered classes in the game
@leaden spruce DH is pretty dogshit. But warlocks didnt need buffs. the second that class isnt mega-OP in raids blizzard re-buffs them
leaden spruce
demon hunters kill me so easily atm n pvp
runic kiln
theyre a little dumb against non-healer comps or world pvp, but theyre a joke if you arent inting in meta
also...who plays wow for balanced pvp since season 6
cold meteor
is venomous wound bugged on beta ?
I feel like I have 0 energy regen
way less than 8.0
fleet whale
it's likely just the feeling of losing all that haste
balmy condor
ye
fleet whale
and azerite for that matter
fleet whale
only because Sin wasn't high apm in Antorus
it was like 41 tops
also consider losing BoTE minor, Iris minor, extra cps from SS, extra cps from higher crit etc
iron valve
losing lucid hurts
fleet whale
from being maxed geared in legion to a fresh 120
you dropped down from 41 apm to like 33-34ish
balmy condor
if you're doing m+ with a crit build on live
fleet whale
BFA were global capped, so we'll just say 60
balmy condor
you're strictly faster on beta
fleet whale
so you're gonna go from like 60 to like 36 as a fresh 60
maybe a little higher with blindside procs
cold meteor
maybe it's venthyr poison whi doesn't proc wound ?
balmy condor
venthyr poison is coded to just be deadly poison+
would be difficult to fuck that up even for blizz spaghetti
I haven't heard of any problems with venthyr poison
fleet whale
if blizz goes through with the diminishing returns on Secondary stats in SL
I don't really see exsang being used at all unless some conduit/leggo can make it work
balmy condor
tru
low girder
so i think you're underestimating how much you're losing
balmy condor
and not remembering 8.0 properly
fleet whale
plus just passive regen from all the haste alone
low girder
yeah that's what i meant with double dipping, you're getting faster ticks for venomous + the passive regen increase
i haven't tried on ptr yet outside of running blindside for fun, so idk how it feels without
but with blindside energy seems pretty fine
i don't have beta 
low girder
yeah, i'm just comparing to like, antorus
balmy condor
and it felt pretty good
low girder
seemed on par with pre-corruption
fleet whale
i will say though, i know the debuff isn't in till you level a bit
but shiv kind of felt shit to press, idk what it was
might just be the complete lack of animation
low girder
yeah idk how it'll be with debuff
also tb feels like it hits a lot harder
which might be part of it
low girder
yeah mut hits like a wet noodle lol
fleet whale
Shiv hits for like less than 20% of a mutilate on ptr
low girder
wish they'd play with it
fleet whale
so it kind of just feels like Symbols of Death with a gcd
and without the energy part
low girder
i can't compare to 8.0 because i stayed sub before going on break lol
bad times
didn't swap to sin until BoD
fleet whale
I actually had fun with sub for a little while in the start of BFA
but i swapped over the sin, before sub got its big nerf though
low girder
i was going to before some shit happened
and then i just stopped playing instead lol
i'm excited to go back though, i'm not a sin hater by any means but playing any spec basically fulltime for 2 years gets old
fleet whale
Sub was also really good in early BFA open world/questing, cause as sin it just took too long for dots to roll
low girder
unless it gets zul'd again, then i'll be sad
fleet whale
that's why they need to tune the akaari thing
low girder
i'm sure it will, even by blizz standards that thing is pretty out of line
manic harness
So for SBS on beta, how do we use it? Just dump 3CP into it at the beginning then refresh everytime it's up?
fleet whale
SBS?
balmy condor
bone spike?
manic harness
yep
balmy condor
its infinite, you just use it and then leave it
fleet whale
you still use it on cd though for cps
fleet whale
but the dot lasts forever
manic harness
no wonder everyone is saying it's OP
balmy condor
is it worth for the cp tho
fleet whale
isn't it like only 10 energy
balmy condor
oh well then yeah
fleet whale
and i think if it's on one target
balmy condor
big worth
fleet whale
you get 2 cps for each cast?
balmy condor
honestly depends on mut damage I would think
balmy condor
I think with how much poisons and auto's do compared to finishers
maybe not worth recasting for cp
mut damage with lego's for example just taking over
envenom/rupture doesn't seem big
subtle drift
Hey everyone, i don't know hot to sim an extra SS, but how much more DPS would it be with 3 SS instead of 2 SS on average %
keen spruce
anyone else noticing that subterfuge is simming higher with or without SS recently? 
keen spruce
I've built from the first half of 8.3 (24% haste, then crit + severe). and even stacking DD and NP I'm simming like 500-1000 dps higher with sub over MA
balmy condor
Correct
keen spruce
weird
balmy condor
That will happen as you get more geared
keen spruce
yeah I dont' think i'd have time to get the expedients to get there anyways
balmy condor
For people that are gearing up, I’ve seen it happen at like 25-35%
keen spruce
jsut curious
balmy condor
But for people that already have a good poison setup
They need a lot more for it to win
keen spruce
yeah i stacked all of my haste gear and got to like 32%, still simmed higher as is
keen spruce
bleh, probably only getting one more expedient 3 round
and i dont' have anywhere near enough echos
dire spoke
idle haste is not really important, you "need" big multipliers like weapon enchant, essences, trinket or mecha ring set zo support exsa
keen spruce
i've got the haste mecha ring, and a full SS set
subtle drift
ANd prepatch is soon
keen spruce
but yeah, i dont' really care to farm anything out at this point
i just prefer the bleed build
balmy condor
Worth and not worth entirely depends on player
If your guild is looking at first time CE and running close to prepatch
Might be worth to that person
I agree time is running out though
dire spoke
I hope there will be Bosses in castle where you want two rogues 🙂 doesnt Look Like it til now
My RL is rogue too : slight 
icy ember
@rigid mango yo what setup do you recommend for sin on opener for beta? 
arctic walrus
balmy condor
shadow wedge
bitter gyro
what is the best race for rogue pvp in horde
bitter gyro
oops
harsh sphinx
its orc
uncut cape
there is no "best" race, we re all equal, Kappa
crimson palm
Gnome ofc
balmy condor
Orc for horde ye
uncut schooner
I have a race change to use on my rogue
@balmy condor will you still sim me as a panda
uncut schooner
Yikes
rigid mango
@icy ember 
keen spruce
anyone know how to get rid of this shit?
keen spruce
doesn't seem to show up on elvui settings or anchors
and i've used that HUD WA since like WoD
u don't think it's default blizz?
balmy condor
I’ve never seen that on anyone’s UI before
keen spruce
kk i'll poke around elv
balmy condor
The default one has bars, and doesn’t have name and level down there
keen spruce
yeah i've never seen it down there either. I don't relaly have any WA that touch nameplates so it's gotta be in elvui
ty ty
well idk what it was, just disabled like 1000 things in elvui and it went away 
keen spruce
something to do with nameplates
balmy condor
That shit gets fucky real quick
keen spruce
yeah i guess there's some kind of bug
where disabling the parent for all player nameplate
doesn't actually inherit down to all of the subcategories
or something
balmy condor
Yikes
keen spruce
probably why it looked so goofy, the nameplate was gone but the text was all still there
strange python
hey guys, how do I maximize garrote damage? This dude had literally like 20 million more with both 100% uptime. I am a fresh 120 @460 with a rank 7 cloak
uncut cape
more haste and 3x Garrote trait will help a lot
low girder
a rank 7 cloak is what, like 30 corruption res
balmy condor
31 I think
low girder
missing a lot of corruption in that case, which is where most of the haste will come from
granted that'll all be gone in like 3-5 weeks
strange python
Wow, that lightens up the darkness now. Thanks a lot everyone!
uncut cape
what do you guys think about the assa legendarys?
balmy condor
Boring
Dashing scoundrel seems okay but only works on applications
So that’s a little disappointing
Mantle is mantle
Nothing really all that great
It’s just....fine
uncut cape
i think blizzard could buff the talent and skip the item and bring something new
low girder
they need the item to give MA to the other two specs
low girder
i'm surprised it's still in tbh
balmy condor
Ma is already the competitive talent in that row
balmy condor
You only see subt cause m+ restealths and the borrowed power making it strong
keen spruce
delete outlaw, split bleed and poison into 2 specs. bleed dot + heavy damage, poison: debuffs, control. buff blindside, ez clap
my 2 sense
but mostly delete outlaw 
icy ember
why
we merely have to maintain 3 separate abilties/combinations, and measure in their value on X and Y ability, and then commit to the outcome in an instant
runic kiln
ANd prepatch is soon
@subtle drift prepatch is realistically 6-8 weeks away. youd have time to get an exped setup going for sure, but itd be a megagrind
topaz axle