anyone can improve this a bit? Ik bote rank 2 is garbo
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kfXhHsdR5oagnjZC6x9cuU
#assassination
remote oriole
void pecan
Better azerite, mecha rings, sockets, haste enchants (unless sims said to go mastery)
bote r3, like you said or CLF
if you're going bleed haste build
void pecan
How do you copy someones simc from their link senpai?
balmy condor
if its a top gear, you hit sim again
in a quick sim or other stuff you can scroll down
this stuff should have it
and then you need to chop out some of the garbage raidbots adds
and gg
void pecan
Huh. Nice ty
balmy condor
np homie
dire basalt
is it still viable to run the double dose build untill i have gear for the new bleed build?
balmy condor
yeah
dire basalt
great, cuz it looks like u need alot of stuff before the bleed build gets better
shut garnet
apparently dd crit build at the high end isnt even that far behind exang haste
arctic walrus
it do be like that
shut garnet
which surprises me
dire basalt
thats great then!
arctic walrus
yeah but it's also strictly single target
dire basalt
how far behind?
shut garnet
true
shut garnet
high end meaning youd need to get like
specific statted pieces of gear, socket them and get the specific corruption for em
if ur gonna go thru that trouble u might as well go with the all round best that also is the best on pure st
dire basalt
yah
shut garnet
(which is the ss exang haste one)
dire basalt
im not sure when the bleed build is viable to start playing with
balmy condor
when it sims higher
balmy condor
it super depends
I've found usually 30% for exsang and 60% for CT
so those are the numbers I spit out
arctic walrus
you link anything relevant to stat breakpoints and you're getting lobbed
balmy condor
but some people don't see exsang until like 50%, and others see exsang at like 20%
yeah
I try and add big disclaimers
shut garnet
runic kiln
azerokks good for anything other than the meme mastery sub spec?
balmy condor
garbo trinket
uncut schooner
stable radish
ah cool cool cool, got which side of the week mother would have expedient 3 the wrong way around
stable radish
yes.. yes I did. feelsgud
shut garnet
stable radish
haha ye, it'd be on theme with this expansion for me
I could angrily stock up on rank 2 I guess
strange python
glimpse > exp 2
lost wharf
That sweet full exp r3
strange python
hey all question for good assassinations, what are we dumping max combo points into for fast big damage once all dots are applied? what am I spamming as much as possible?
balmy condor
envenom is our main dump
late escarp
I've seen conflicting messages on whether rogues are getting nerfed in SL. Looking at the changes it looks like everything is pretty freakin rosey. Is there some reason peoplea re saying nerf?
balmy condor
nerf/buff is all here-say
balance doesn't exist atm
people for sin are mostly miffed because alacrity is a boring talent and slice and dice is a meaningless addition
late escarp
but one of the biggest things around looks like the conduit that ties reuperate to SND
late escarp
shiiit id kill for it on my feral XD
strange python
alright guys, aoe feels weak a bit as assassination, how do we maximize this? I have been coming from a strong aoe background. is it the aoe talent and drain bleeds faster good?
balmy condor
right now or on beta?
strange python
now not beta
balmy condor
the current way we aoe is subtfuge/SS garrotes from stealth and it depends on build
crit builds can use EB, which becomes very powerful with a couple severe/strikes, that's the preferred m+ spec for sin
haste builds can spread ruptures and CT
strange python
thank you
dark crag
Got that since a few weeks and i just played assa 2 weeks
uncut cape
I hope Assa will be best Rougespec in SL
arctic walrus
strange python
I’ve been looking through the king slayer traits and how come some of them weren’t carried into bfa? They look cool
balmy condor
cause blizzard didn't add them
strange python
That’s a shame
They look really cool
Blood of the assassinated, poisoned knives, dense concoction
balmy condor
and instead of doing damage, multiplied all our damage on the target by a %, stacking 5 times
and it scaled with mastery
strange python
Yeah and apparently some of the artifact traits buffed it
balmy condor
and it was the worst fucking thing
sin rogue already had ramp time
and it made it even worse
strange python
Oof
balmy condor
it was busted op
cause it was just an 80% damage buff to targets or something stupid
strange python
Holy shit
balmy condor
but it's awful design
stark wyvern
I know its beta, but how is assassination going into shadowlands? Might actually start out with a rogue this time.
balmy condor
and it's really really REALLY bad
strange python
Yeah it could’ve been made more fun
balmy condor
assassination is looking fine
slice and dice is boring
but if you liked bfa sin, its the same thing
strange python
Not looking forward to SnD
low girder
it punished target swapping extremely hard and everyone hated it lol
so they removed it in like 7.1
stark wyvern
Is Sub going back to pre Zul?
balmy condor
it was added in nighthold
strange python
7.2.5 actually
balmy condor
really
interesting
I don't have memories back that far because my brain hurts
@stark wyvern no its not, because that passive creates a lot of fucking problems
strange python
7.0.3 - 7.2.5
balmy condor
but its the same thing
its current sub with some find weakness changes and an aoe finisher
strange python
And then they axed it and replaced it with toxic blade
Which is being removed too
low girder
wouldn't call it removed exactly
strange python
Well they’re baking into a pvp talent and making it baseline
Shiv
I guess now I’ll actually have a reason to use shiv?
low girder
in pve it's basically the same
low girder
just with the old enrage dispel tied to it
balmy condor
the enrage is super niche from what I've seen
strange python
They’re giving shiv an enrage dispel?
balmy condor
just raging weeks
strange python
Woohoo
balmy condor
that's what old shiv did
low girder
but sometimes it was nice
strange python
I’ll take that
low girder
UBRS boss is the only one i remember
balmy condor
and otherwise its just toxic blade
low girder
and hellfire council
strange python
Fury warrior is getting fucked
grizzled orbit
Yeah, more utility. 
balmy condor
they get spell reflect baseline
strange python
No I mean
Mind numbing poison AND we can dispel their enrage?
We are unstoppable
balmy condor
idk if fury warrior enrage is an enrage
strange python
It is I think
grizzled orbit
Considering they are pretty much enraged constantly, they won’t be out of enrage for long
balmy condor
yeah that too
balmy condor
yeah
low girder
it was a cooldown
low girder
has*
strange python
What’s toxic blade?
grizzled orbit
Right. Lol. You can’t spam it. Lmao
balmy condor
25 seconds
balmy condor
that would make your point even worse
balmy condor
yes
strange python
Jesus Christ
balmy condor
alacrity is taken in pve in every situation
strange python
shrugs I can’t say no to free haste
shut garnet
im sure there’ll be WAAAY too much haste in the first tier of a new expac
strange python
Why?
shut garnet
so much you wint even wanna have alacrity (/s btw)
you’re gonna probably want all the haste u can get
balmy condor
crit vers mast haste for a crit build
haste mast/crit vers for haste build
still crit vers
you know better tisu u god damn snack
arctic walrus
balmy condor
balmy condor
depends on week and key but you need vers for higher keys and a haste build doesn't work with that so my personal opinion is outlaw
outlaw build is better m+ build
vital haven
ok im too tired to troll
balmy condor
:P
vital haven
arctic walrus
wish I could just put you in a room with autoattakk until he broke you
balmy condor
urban gale
@balmy condor do u happen to remember what you did for my sim the other day? im getting a lower number again https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bNLhS5LJhyjSxUUpm8B4mv
dire spoke
don't you talk shit about agonizing poison @balmy condor
it was our main excuse to tunnel boss
balmy condor
true
low girder
yeah now that i think about it more i definitely bitched at my raid until i never had to hit adds on krosus
balmy condor
"sorry guys would love to help with aluriel adds, but can't, agonizing"
dire spoke
balmy condor
and then they all stacked on boss
fok ramped the poison
and you got a poison bomb proc
skyrocketed on meters lmao
urban gale
so in a standard opener, your first exsang happens with your first empowered garrote and rupture
do you use ur second exsang on cd?
balmy condor
and your third
urban gale
with just a regular rupture and garrote
urban gale
then vanish/repeat
balmy condor
ye
urban gale
is there any way to practice on the dummy without vanish screwing up the meter
balmy condor
get a friend to hit it with you
urban gale
yeah makes sense
balmy condor
or just log it
urban gale
in general rotation terms, ignoring things like shrouded suffocation, is there any meaningful difference between allowing a dot to drop for half a second vs pandemicing it
balmy condor
yeah
you're missing a half second of ticks
and you're not full pandemicing for exsang
arctic walrus
because that's below 60
rancid bobcat
im a pussy
rancid bobcat
also
i ran honed 3 a while back at varying exp levels and
only at corruption cap levels was it better than pure exp 3
so
idk what else you'd use
except for jumping straight into hm3 setup
vast forum
but that's 15 extra corruption
balmy condor
mecha rings
balmy condor
strange python
Resimming
I dont feel like waiting 3 weeks to buy another exp for my mecha ring
balmy condor
we'll compare sims :)
strange python
Progging on nzoth with an inting sim 😭
balmy condor
oof
strange python
mecha rings and belt corruption
balmy condor
unlucky
balmy condor
better luck next time
balmy condor
according to that, ye
strange python
hmmm
strange python
k
I need to re corrupt my belt
I got that out of a weekly
and it was better than my old
grizzled jay
so close
balmy condor
do you have any corruptions on you
balmy condor
unlucky
grizzled jay
It's okay, on Friday I will cleanse my Tendy 3 and equip 3 Strk3s
strange python
and I dont support that
balmy condor
mecharings with exp3
strange python
WTF\
balmy condor
get you 40 away
strange python
ok dood
balmy condor
so that + a random socket should do it
balmy condor
probably not worth
grizzled jay
tbh my dps is from lack of sockets
balmy condor
cause you're losing 40 corruption worth of stuff
strange python
true
strange python
my HoD wouldn't proc
bold remnant
is 6500 haste to much haste? its 95%
balmy condor
does 95% haste sim higher?
strange python
balmy condor
I would assume the sims are screaming at you to equip some different gems
strange python
If I replaced this
balmy condor
or re-enchant
balmy condor
well does it have exped3
balmy condor
then no
bold remnant
it never tells me to swap my gems for some reson even tho i have them selected idk why
balmy condor
because 233 + 12% is in fact not how that works
balmy condor
well yeah
balmy condor
not necessarily
strange python
Doesnt exist
strange python
what in the fuck
strange python
lmaooooo
grizzled jay
@balmy condor Why does SimC not have a 100% uptime on Garrote/Rupture on a Patchwerk fight
strange python
Yeah
strange python
I got my dh sim to 200k by putting 330 worth of IS
grizzled jay
in a Patchwerk fight where nothing happens and no mechanics, why would you let it fall off?
balmy condor
you're already at less than 100% on rupture because you're not casting it on your first global
strange python
balmy condor
and there's probably gcd's your missing with empowered bleeds dropping
silent crescent
^
strange python
So this sim you ran goes off of vendetta.
Do you think it would be better to run 3 SS for fights like M nzoth
Because dotting at least 3 synapses I feel would be ebtter
than like 60k extra damage on vendetta
strange python
lmao
grizzled jay
@balmy condor Wanna see my ugly Azerite
balmy condor
no thanks
grizzled jay
grizzled jay
not bis for crit build :^)
balmy condor
its also SS/EB
strange python
I thought gorak was BiS 0.o
grizzled jay
I want a Gorak's yes
but ive rolled the same 3 shoulders every gamble
also rolled Gore chest twice in a row
burnt star
Those assa on beta has legendary and all 4 convenant now?
balmy condor
I mean, we're still missing a couple conduits
but ye
we've had our covenants for a while
legendaries got added last week
or 2 weeks?
idk time is difficult
burnt star
Wasnt night fae missing
balmy condor
night fae is the sepsis shit
grizzled jay
no legendaries were testable during this week's raid testing
right
or was there a vendor that gave them out
in the raid
balmy condor
nope, had to grind them I'm pretty sure
sterile talon
No vendor
grizzled jay
yah then they weren't in
Runecarver wasn't working til like 1 day before raid testing
burnt star
Trying to see how rogue feels in shadowlands but last info i read. There were lot missing.. but that was a month ago
sterile talon
Also what conduits are we missing ? All 3 specs got 4 potency conduits each datamined
grizzled jay
datamine does not mean they are in the beta
just means Blizzard has the data clientside
sterile talon
Thats not what i interpreted as
sterile talon
Yes
balmy condor
ye one on sub one on outlaw
strange python
Glad insig or Plumage
burnt star
Thats a bit sad seeing how the game might launch i 2 month
vital haven
They are the same
balmy condor
well shadow vault is useless because its bugged and isn't affected by mastery
yeah that's the same trinket lmao
they're both on use vers and the same amount of stats
strange python
balmy condor
don't use that
vital haven
You are thinkinh about the badge trinket
strange python
balmy condor
the only pvp trinket we use
strange python
balmy condor
is on use vers one
balmy condor
because the one use vers one is plumage
strange python
this is the insig
balmy condor
everything else is trash
strange python
true
balmy condor
15's are enough of a stomp these days
balmy condor
well a 20 KR this week is definitely painful
balmy condor
no one does keys on tyran weeks
you just do your one weekly no leaver
which is usually a junk
strange python
tru
8 raden kills and 12 rerolls later no vita on my dh
I did get a slapper though
balmy condor
slapper is the bigger upgrade
grizzled jay
i dropped both my slappers and stopped living the Outlaw dream
back to Sin for N'Zoth proggers
balmy condor
but there's no ST fights
balmy condor
strange python
Progging that 470 ilvl
grizzled jay
470 is nzoth ready for BM
strange python
true
grizzled jay
All TD isn't bad either
drifting cloud
well you can like 17 man nzoth so I guess all you need to be is 120
balmy condor
900million dps
strange python
true
balmy condor
for a crit build or haste
also be aware that heroic cara and mythic wrathion drop better weapons for either build
so unless you pull something out of your box, unlikely you'll find better than that
balmy condor
depends on difficulty tbh
weak oak
doing heroic rn
balmy condor
pop on nzoth after first psychus
balmy condor
if they live that long sure
you can just hit em with a 2-3 cp rupture
and snipe the energy back (assuming you don't have expedients and are already drowning in energy)
strange python
If you are going for parse
pop cd's on first phase
I made the mistake of not doing that
so I only have an 80% on nzoth rn
fallow otter
"Damage done to Synapses that heal to full or that do not die is excluded in the table below. Bonus damage to Psychus has been removed as well (i.e., all damage to Psychus counts as 100% with no bonus added)."
for if you want to parse
balmy condor
yeah, the only thing you get from popping cds on psychus is cd timing
jaunty relic
I just tried assassination on ptr
it feels
sluggish
does it improve with gear?
I feel like 90% of the time I'm stuck with low combos and low energy
balmy condor
that's usually how sin feels
the only reason we don't feel like that now is because expedients
alacrity and blindside make it feel really smooth actually imo
it'll of course get better with more and more haste
but you shouldn't compare the speed of sin atm to the speed of sin normally
this has been an incredibly weird patch
jaunty relic
about energy generation
do we get more energy with haste?
like do we generate haste with aa?
balmy condor
we have natural energy gen with haste
a majority of the energy gen will come from venomous wounds
which gives us energy when garrote/rupture ticks on poisoned enemies
and since haste speeds up the ticks + gives us natural energy regen
that's where the energy comes from
jaunty relic
I don't like outlaw as much as sin
jaunty relic
I played sin in legion and I loved it
strange python
with the amount of shit they are getting
jaunty relic
I skipped bfa
balmy condor
Wdym gl in shadowlands
strange python
dude
balmy condor
Sub all the way dude
balmy condor
Have you tried outlaw during raid testing
jaunty relic
sub is good too
jaunty relic
relax, we got 3 dps specs
balmy condor
Gouge when
strange python
I timed a 19 ML on the ptr with 6k overall DPS
jaunty relic
it's almost guaranteed that at least one will be viable
balmy condor
Lmao
empty tide
hey, anyone tried messing out with ra-dens weapons on assa ?
balmy condor
Just sim for 8bil DPS
strange python
wtf did you just say scav 
balmy condor
@empty tide not sure if you’re memeing or not
There’s been a couple troll logs on hive that made it look okay
empty tide
no meme actually, i tried for fun on a 19, the only skill you cant use its mutilate
empty tide
with 3x EB 3x SS
empty tide
ngl, its legit
strange python
no...
balmy condor
Except it isn’t
empty tide
by legit i mean its playable
strange python
well
balmy condor
Sure it’s playable
balmy condor
You could also equip a single 320 dagger from a vendor
empty tide
ye ye, thanks for the insight
strange python
ohhh
empty tide
^
balmy condor
He foks single target
empty tide
and it was toldagor so, 2 "aoe" bosses
balmy condor
Actually does less damage than outlaw single target tho
strange python
^
I mean ill sim cleave rn
with 2 slappers
and show you that it is not viable
balmy condor
Tol dagor
strange python
even with eb x3
balmy condor
Might be decent for first pull
But I would run out after beach and equip daggers
Even then
Questionable
empty tide
i mean, im not saying its the go to super bis etc
balmy condor
I’m not sure if the corruption from lash is better than just running the equivalent in strikes
strange python
just go dh 
strange python
You trying to become Jes Howlis?
empty tide
was mainly for fun after seeing a guy do it, but i thought it would end up much worse
tawdry bramble
oblique lark
too low)
craggy seal
@balmy condor told me mastery build is better then crit build in raid but i wanted a 2nd opinion https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2fCRmKcCCVdGVYWDdodfat 🙂
balmy condor
How dare you
You think I’m sleeping at 2am
@craggy seal if you’re gonna troll me at least do it efficiently
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u2UvpwtPQgHmZUFvNZr74e
balmy condor
Well I guess we’re throwing hands then
plain tusk
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gjcDtzApkgUNBsfSakuUvK
Damn, it feels so good after buying out and stacking expedients as much as the cloak let me, now I just need some better items and the damn trinket from KR
balmy condor
What iLvL is that pvp trinket
plain tusk
430
plain tusk
But it has a socket
That's probably the only reason why it works better than 465 dice
balmy condor
It’s possible
stark wyvern
Good morning 🙂
remote oriole
I dc'd last night but ty @balmy condor for simming my trash gear 🙂
wispy tinsel
Just curious if running 3x Double Dose do you use subterfuge or master assassin in the 2nd talent row
royal lantern
probs just sim it
wispy tinsel
yeah probably, just thought id ask
balmy condor
If you have a raid/haste build
You’d run that
Playing a crit build is still fine though
You just get rid of one of the EB
grizzled jay
DD Crit Kreygasm
pale bluff
why does everyone getting expedient and on raider io everyone using severe / strikethrough
balmy condor
Because crit build is better in dungeons/aoe
And haste build is better single target
And most of this channel is a raid channel
Because outlaw is the meta m+ spec
And sin is not
balmy condor
No one pushes on tyrannical weeks
So imo it’s not worth talking about
But sin is better on tyran
pale bluff
I have so much haste gear atm. That is why I change spec from outlaw to assasin
balmy condor
Well it’s mostly the corruption that matter
But having decent stats as a baseline is definitely useful
dusk moat
some kwys are worth 🙂
still need workshop and siege
i have full hastebuild im gonna try it thanks 🙂
balmy condor
Workshop and siege are both awful on tyran
You can play haste build on fortified in those
It’s a little worse in siege to be fair
dusk moat
so haste build over severe even if forti?
shut garnet
if you have access to severe strikethru with 3ss3eb then you take that for forti in most keys
dusk moat
yeah fortified weeks usaually np
shut garnet
haste build still pulls ahead im pretty sure in SoB, temple, junkyard most likely
kings rest
dusk moat
overall 100k+ almost in any dungeon
also got some problems with ad xD
maybe go haste build in there to?
shut garnet
wdym by problems?
balmy condor
shut garnet
there's a lot of variables that could cause that
key level, what specs ur playing with, the way ur tank pulls
whether ur actually consistent on packs
e.g doing the same thing on the same pack every atal
dusk moat
u guys go posionbomb in there or hb?
shut garnet
dusk moat
hidden blades
dusk moat
haha oki
balmy condor
Hidden blades is a SUPER bad talent
shut garnet
the only people ive legit seen take it is some hivemind parses
but even then its probably suboptimal
dusk moat
alright thanks for some input im gonna fix this 🙂
yeah ct sux for some dungeons
i oprefer to use it tho
balmy condor
Very few tbh
dusk moat
sob righjt?
balmy condor
With a crit build I’d run PB in workshop, and maybe sob/atal depending on the aoe
Sob is mainly cause there’s so much squishy shit and spotter nukes
And last boss is super super scary
Atal is mostly for bosses and the birds die really quick
But I think it’s a hard sell for atal overall
I generally prefer CT in there as well
devout fiber
Which better for PvE?
Or is gladiators badge better
I got remote guidance device on other slot
ilvl 460
shut garnet
sim
balmy condor
Sim is the answer
umbral rapids
bro
balmy condor
jagged yoke
is blindside looking like the way to go in SL?
jagged yoke
yeh im really hoping it is
balmy condor
Might be blindside single target and ep/mp for aoe
jagged yoke
never been keen on ep
strange python
Hello there, may i ask which convenant looks good for shadowlands? And which spec is currently doing well in dongeon? If you know it
thanks you for your time
strange python
Bone spike is Maldraxus one?
balmy condor
ye
strange python
Thank you for your answer
balmy condor
dungeon wise, outlaw probably still BiS, because its outlaw. Sin will probably be okay with dots now that target caps are a thing, sub depends on tuning on their aoe finishers and the potential to funnel
really all up in the air on sin/sub for tuning and how the meta shakes out. I think outlaw is a safe bet though. They didn't get a lot of changes from bfa
strange python
We got back ambush, i do hope it turns out okay for a good opening
balmy condor
yeah blindside seems okay, that's just a numbers game
subterfuge 3x garrotes is just too strong in dungeons to pass up though
don't really see a world where we run MA in dungeons for example
strange python
Alacrity is the new talent OP ?
balmy condor
its the best talent in the row because venom rush is dog shit useless and exsang needs a lot to make it work that won't exist at least at the start of the expac
we're probably stuck with it
it's okay, but it's not super op crazy
the haste is nice in single target to keep the spec moving
but its kinda w/e in aoe aside from the tick rate on dots
strange python
increasing the bleeding and energy regen
balmy condor
yeah its basically just an energy regen like vigor
strange python
Understood, thank you !
manic cairn
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
inner leaf
so how are rogues looking in SL boys
inner leaf
lol not sure what that means but I appreciate it
balmy condor
rogues have always been fine
iron valve
same as now plus slice and dice, covenant abilities aren't totally awful, overall 5/7
sterile ocean
did Expidient get nerfed or something?
full jungle
Rogues are "atleast they are not a shaman" tier for me atm Kappa
grizzled jay
Rogue will always be at the bare minimum "good enough". I think the last time Rogues were legitimately terrible was naxx in wotlk and they were swiftly buffed the next patch
And that's just for raiding. Rogue has never been bad (or less than S tier tbh) for M+ or Arena
vast forum
iirc, rogue was bad in early mop
umbral rapids
This is actually funny
I’m guessing that means rogue players do more keys
Not sure
balmy condor
that means that out of all the keys above 20, 26% of the dps are outlaw rogues
vestal wren
rogue brings shroud in m+ what makes it a prefered pick if it can be abused
balmy condor
at least that's how I'm reading it
urban gale
not even the best utility in the game can make us be played more than dhs 
umbral rapids
Well how would you interpret the difference then @balmy condor
First one shows all runs, a character is gonna be counter multiple times, second one each character is counted once
umbral rapids
Funny
At 15+ the difference between rogue and warrior is a lot smaller
And the sample size is 10 times larger lol
balmy condor
less dps warriors than dps rogues interested in keys
umbral rapids
Yeah that’s what I said, rogue players do more keys ^^
balmy condor
well, higher keys
tropic ocean
its for sure not shroud what makes you pick rogue 1st thing
2nd thing its not more rogues do more keys than warriors
its that warrior is shit in high keys compared to rogue
vestal wren
the player amount goes down dramatically if you filter for higher keys
tropic ocean
for both utility and defense
balmy condor
ye
you're just seeing the 'meta' happen as you filter higher
you can take a shaman to a 15 easy peasy
so you'll see more shamans
vestal wren
if you filter to high you almost only evaluate what the handful of "push groups" play
balmy condor
but as you get higher and higher and more 'meta' groups are established
you'll see less
balmy condor
yeah but keyboard warriors don't :P
tropic ocean
you also need to have some knowledge to interpret it
you don't see certain classes in higher keys due to population
but due to efficiency
and effectiveness
umbral rapids
« Meta » classes to time a 20 isn’t really necessary
vestal wren
i am not 100% convinced on the efficiency topic
umbral rapids
What😂
vestal wren
like for the highest keys you def. have to bring a very good composition
but there is a huge diffrence between a +20 key and a +30 key
tropic ocean
theres not
its more efficient to bring a firemage and a rogue to 20
as it is to bring him to 30
the key tier doesnt change the class' capability
0 influence
vestal wren
it does change the requirement
umbral rapids
Yeah but you don’t need them in a 20
tropic ocean
infact when I boost 15s we pull so much that firemage is leaving keys with 180k+ dps
umbral rapids
You do in a 30
balmy condor
vast forum
@tropic ocean there are differences in key lvls t ho
shadow wedge
vestal wren
the argument is true that its more efficient to bring a certain spec/class over a other in almost all content levels also trivial content.
vast forum
if you bring a firemage to a tyrannical 15, their primary target dies halfway into their combust
balmy condor
some pretty 
discussion in here
tropic ocean
cuz u are not limited to pullsize in 15s
vast forum
assa PUMPS on medium keys (+20 or so) because trash usually lives the duration of garrote, not longer, not shorter
tropic ocean
cuz u dont need control when everything dies in 20sec
vast forum
you are limited by affixes tbh 😄
inland plover
do that in explo week
tropic ocean
doesnt matter firemage 800kdps
inland plover
🙂
tropic ocean
can do the same in explo?
umbral rapids
Is it more efficient ? Yes
Is it required ? No
vast forum
try on explosive or bolstering 🙂
tropic ocean
done
umbral rapids
Guess we agree on that
tropic ocean
only real issue is bolstering
umbral rapids
Is it more efficient ? Yes
Is it required ? No
That said, i timed some of my highest keys with completely off meta specs that still did pretty well
Granted, yes it would’ve been easier with a mage
But it worked so whatever
umbral rapids
That was the point.
tropic ocean
with non efficiency in wow
tropic ocean
????
umbral rapids
kek
tropic ocean
i answered to fuu
umbral rapids
Fair enough 😅
inner leaf
Whats our best covenant so far (pre tuning?)
balmy condor
cause its omegalul overtuned
umbral rapids
That will teach me sharing data I find interesting 
tropic ocean
and 3 of them in temple last boss
vestal wren
you can do almost everythnig
with non efficiency in wow
i know, assassination is king of that
umbral rapids
Yeah only place I use shroud all the time is volkall and tos
tropic ocean
vokaal did in the begin
but ever since I saw russian tank route never changed from it
e.g. leaving portal in middle
and not playing stairs pack with 2 casters
umbral rapids
Oh I’m interested in that
tropic ocean
so u just take vokaal obelisk down to middle
so much more efficient than skipping right side honor guard pack
umbral rapids
Right
tropic ocean
and skip double caster pack on stairs
where u need to cc 1 caster out
until 1st is dead
which costs so much time
tropic ocean
like even with 2x garrote
and vanish 2x garrote
it was very fiesta
anyway I did 22 atal or so with russian tank with 6k rio and he did it like that and it was so easy
umbral rapids
Atal is one of those dungeons with so many break points
tropic ocean
key was full int and we still finished with 5 or 6 min left or smth
tropic ocean
the pathing was very different to what im used to
usually go left first then priest then to mid
but he went mid and snap all saurids +1 skycreamer on entrance
and then snap saurid pack+mid pack
tropic ocean
it was very efficient time-wise