wheat maple
For most classes the exponential increase that comes with stacking damage/% Increases makes it way better to stack instead of stagger
#assassination
proper sage
yee i meant stagger the cooldown so they stack
void sinew
for mythic prog whats a good parse avg?
void sinew
gotta look at something
balmy condor
parses ain't it chief
void sinew
fair, I still think they are somewhat important for information
balmy condor
except they aren't really
void sinew
and why is that?
arctic walrus
are you asking what is a good parse if it's your first time killing a boss?
void sinew
I feel like the corruptions being buyable they are now apart the parse
as it should be relatively easy to optimize your corruuptions
balmy condor
Its also like 6 months into a tier
void sinew
obvi some stuff with infinite stars and shad are wack
arctic walrus
that's not why we're saying "corruptions make it meaningless to parse"
balmy condor
looking at parses 6 months into a tier btw
arctic walrus
it's the fact that that people overstack their corruptions making it harder for people sticking to <59
royal lantern
like
if you go above 39 for progression
you are the guy nobody wants too raid with
void sinew
<60 is fine
void sinew
i mean if it takes you 6 month to prog something is wrong
with the guild over all
not everyone is playing Bfa from the release of the tier
balmy condor
But aren’t you the one asking about prog parses in August
void sinew
okay, forget about prog parse, what's a good avg parse then
void sinew
I only say prog parse cause if you have all bis you should have close to 100
with certain items for certain bosses
balmy condor
That’s not what a parse is though?
royal lantern
you are better then 100% of all rogue players that killed that boss
void sinew
i mean close to
arctic walrus
100 is reserved for ksp
royal lantern
and all bis doesnt mean shit about getting 100parse
im pretty much full bis and my xanesh is always green
arctic walrus
tone 5 
royal lantern
cus i cant get a good parse by beeing in ball group 1
drifting cloud
dps in ball group 1 
balmy condor
I guess the question is
balmy condor
What are you trying to get out of a shiny number next to your damage
What’s the goal here
drifting cloud
you can type in #off-topic
arctic walrus
between a 98 and a rank 1 sure, that you can consider down to rng
void sinew
I feel like once everyone gets bis isnt parses just decided through random procs?
arctic walrus
otherwise it's user error or getting unlucky with boss mechanics or jobs for you
royal lantern
^
arctic walrus
like soccer soaking etc
void sinew
yes, for certain bosses though
void sinew
and if you have it on farm why not swap who soaks
balmy condor
Also there’s player error still
void sinew
also uptime though cause everyone has to do those mechanics
royal lantern
cus why change when it works allready
balmy condor
By your logic, we should be comparing simDPS
void sinew
yeah I mean i feel like your goal should be to as close to sim dps as possible
cause then you are a machine
you're cracked then
this doesn't really work though for most of the bosses
balmy condor
Well then why do you think that BiS gear = 100 parse on every boss
void sinew
cause if you have bis you have the potential to get 100 parse on every boss
balmy condor
You have the potential to get 100 parse if you don’t get targeted by mechanics, have good kill times, good procs, and play really good, yes
Given that you have BiS, and you play perfectly, you have the chance to get 100
void sinew
yeah I feel like this kinda went of the rails, but I get what you guys are saying I was just orginally asking what a good avg parse to have across, because other than parses what else is there to compare to in mythic raiding
balmy condor
If I tell you that if you’re under 90 average parse, you’re not doing good enough
Would that make you feel better
What if I told you that if you’re above 50, you’re better than average
Is that good enough for you
What standard do you hold yourself to
Does your standard shift depending on what society deems as good?
What society? This discord? Your guild? Your friends?
void sinew
yeah okay I see your point friend
balmy condor
We can go down that rabbit hole for a long time
void sinew
okay this topic blows wiener, is assassination looking good in SL?
balmy condor
Oh man you’re really not gonna like the answer to that
What’s “good”
Good damage? We don’t have conduits, nor tuning
drifting cloud
its August, ask after heroic week
balmy condor
Good rotation? Idk, maybe you enjoy it
drifting cloud
for an actual answer thats not just a guessing game
void sinew
I feel like my questions all blow
drifting cloud
we go back to snail pace for most of the xpac
void sinew
dmg I guess?
balmy condor
Your questions don’t blow
They’re just very ethereal
Damage is a complete shot in the dark atm though
void sinew
gotcha so I guess you don't really knows whats good untill first tier release
balmy condor
Yep
And then the tier after will introduce new stuff and the meta will shift and things will get better and worse
I always suggest you play what’s fun to you, Tis a game after all
Balance comes and goes
void sinew
true, well thanks for the responses!
sand whale
sub is fun
storm perch
with a prepatch we will all turn into a pumpkin
dire spoke
dark crag
Only you assa guys will
fallow otter
Hi I'm sub now
dark crag
Outlaw will be fine pls stay there
fallow otter
You don't own me
uncut schooner
We will all be playing warlocks within the first week dw about it
scarlet sequoia
placid dawn
can rogues enter obelisks in stealth?
fallow otter
no
shrewd night
You cant enter in stealth, but you have time to get stealthed before starting the obelisk mob
crude light
Do you guys setup a preset on raidbot before simming?
dire spoke
Aside from my input I edit fight lentgth, pot and food generally
dire spoke
I sim for 3 minutes because that's how long the fights in our farm go for most of the time
crude light
ah i see
dire spoke
are you speaking about mythic+ simulations?
crude light
no actually i am just thinking of boss fight, how would i do m+ ?
vast forum
why disable buffs in raids?
crude light
i dont want it to include in my gear grind
crude light
atleast not yet
dire spoke
I mean yeah if you want to know your singletarget throughput without a raid, sure
but that's never the case
so why bother with that number?
dire spoke
_C
crude light
then how would you preset a m+ before simming?
dire spoke
Use dungeon slice
shrewd night
ye, but assa and dslice?
dire spoke
Is the APL bad?
shrewd night
good boi
crude light
so? Dont try preset for a m+?
shrewd night
@balmy condor explain urself
dire spoke
dungeon slice is closest as you can get to this scenario, it's not super accurate but helpful enough as it let's you restealth and give an idea of what traits and stats work
that's my opinion, never used it really as it just doesn't matter to me and when you follow the guides in pinned messages that's best you can do
wary ice
IIRC the problem with Dlsice for assa sims is that it will vastly over-value Haste and in general ST damage for a dungeon due to the pull sizes/lengths/always getting a restealth
things Like EB are going to be undervalued because you're never going to have pull s much higher than like 5 or 6 (idr the cap). The result is you get this sim where your 3ss Garrote can carry your ST damage and a lot of your AoE; since we're never in an AoE proper situation.
dire spoke
koji about dslice
tropic ocean
Yikes
dire spoke
I mean you can't really recommend any other mode or don't sim it at all, lol 
it's just good enough for somebody who really has no idea what works, players who know what works don't simulate it because it has no value to it
gloomy stone
will Assassination have a more complicated rotation in shadowlands with so many baselines? I enjoy that it's a versatile spec that is relatively easy to pick up currently in bfa.
hallow coyote
Probably not
Just maintaining Slice and Dice on top of existing Toxic Blade gameplay
There are still placeholder talents though, which could change things up
gloomy stone
so shiv will replace toxic blade, is that right? And slice n dice is another finisher to upkeep
silent crescent
Yes
gloomy stone
slice n dice on top of garrote and rupture
silent crescent
It's low priority like CT probably, so wont be much different than live
wary ice
but replace 1 envenom
hallow coyote
I hope Shiv gets Toxic Blade's damage, I remember someone saying Shiv used to not do much damage itself
hallow coyote
I think that depends on what they do with the blank talent spots, and hopefully another tuning pass
dark crag
The real hit assa takes is the loss of haste corruptions (crit for m+)
Back to 2min vanish ma gameplay for prepatch i guess
gloomy stone
some covenant abilities will be part of the rotation I guess
wary ice
Honestly I'd argue loss of corruptions is a net buff on the scale of all DPS
rogue scales no where near as hard w/ stats as hunter/mage and no where near as hard with procs as DH
dark crag
You mean rogue is not hit as hard as other dps
gloomy stone
will subtlety have an easier rotation than assassin in shadowlands?
wary ice
Probably not
dark crag
Yes
Because nothing really changed
Assa gets another finisher
Rupture + snd is kinda like current nb, also snd boosts cp gen by a lot
dire spoke
gather your mast/vers gear for sub prepatch 🙂
gloomy stone
thanks, maybe I try sub
mellow pier
Assassins rotation is like 20apm
Nothing can be easier lol
U literally sit there for gcds
dire spoke
@gloomy stone it's just prepatch fun-minmaxing, sub could be do well or better than sin 🔮 for shadowlands nobody really knows until raid release
dark crag
No haste assa is snoozefest
dark crag
Did you try the haste build on live?
mellow pier
@dire spoke good thing all my elite pvp gear is verse mastery lol
dire spoke
steel ridge
Everyone talking about prepatch. Any date?
dire spoke
1-2 month before xpac release 🙂
steel ridge
soonish
balmy condor
@shrewd night I don’t recommend Dslice, I think it’s fine but it doesn’t reflect a dungeon, I always recommend 5-6 target 1-1:30
mellow pier
5 to 6 target doesnt reflect every dungeon either tho imo
U should take a combo of some diff sims and check from there
mellow pier
I also dont know any giga pulls in m+ that last over a min haha
Usually the mage just destroys them lol
And ur there to simp for them
balmy condor
That’s not entirely true but okay
mellow pier
Dungeon slice has its place. But it will put more emphasis on ST
balmy condor
Correct
steel ridge
What happens with azerite traits in prepatch? Are they a goner?
balmy condor
They’re still around
It’s just corruptions
Essences and traits are gonna disappear during leveling or on expac launch
Depending on when they disable it
mellow pier
Could u imagine how terrible prepatch would be without azerite traits?
It feels bad on beta but it would hit too fast if it happened in prepatch lol
dire spoke
Azerite is disabled in new areas of SL iirc
crimson palm
it gets disabled when you do the intro quest
hybrid harness
azerite is disabled in SL content
lone junco
maybe Dslice will be more relvant in Slands when you wont get a mongo pull cleave.
idk
except for the uncapped fok crits.
doubt thats reason enough to pull 8-12 mobs. Maybe Sub will come back into line. Does their mastery buff rupture too?
balmy condor
yeah I've been saying for a while that I see a world where multi-dotting is king
mastery buffs their rupture yeah
lone junco
so big fok rupture tabbing will be stronger than assassins. neat
ill be on feral for my dps keys. so heres to multi dotting champs.
lone junco
Ill take spriest.
Tisumi is saying that priest is really strong. So I can do Disc/Shadow.
grave bison
Is it possible to craft legendaries in beta?
main warren
Yes
grave bison
with leatherworking?
grave bison
damnit 😄 thank you both
balmy condor
they're BoE so you should be able to trade with people for it
grave bison
people probably wouldn't want to, since gold is irrelevant in beta
blazing kayak
Where’s the updated assassin raid guide
balmy condor
In the pins
dire spoke
near coyote
Anyone ever run a friend in freehold, im helping mine level but obv tougher as a rogue, any tips for those who have done it?
Takes me like 4-5 pulls
lone junco
use a tank class?
vast forum
leeching poison echoing blades?
lone junco
I mean, they can EB CT kite quite a bit of trash. and snipe with Breath?
lone junco
doing m0 or heroic?
honest silo
Assass is pretty easy for Freehold carry. Leeching poison, master poisoner and EB lets you pull huge.
it's normal if they're leveling
so anything above 460 should be more than enough
vast forum
i doubt MP is worth tho 😛
honest silo
it's not needed but could help if having problems with kiting or healing. Stuff dies very quickly it doesn't matter really just giving some options.
upbeat latch
hey guys, wanted to know which corruptions i should use since i see different combinations with strike through, versatile and severe on raider.io
it looks like severe sims the most for me at my current gear, but i guess versatile will be better if i have more bis items which give me versatile?
balmy condor
Severe/strike for m+
Versatiles are only used in super high keys because they need it to survive
You would switch the strikes for versatiles if you’re pushing past like 25-26’s
chilly obsidian
i simp for firemages :/
balmy condor
balmy condor
when it sims higher, or when you run m+
devout fiber
For M+ i'd use iron wire
balmy condor
but subterfuge is the talent you switch into, not MA
ma is for undergeared raid
you always use subt in dungeons
devout fiber
Alright ty
silent crescent
I was worried for a sec, was wondering who tf runs m+ without ss and subterfuge
chilly obsidian
just run nightstalker so you can run quickly behind the mages while hidden
strange python
how do you guys get to this insane Dps numbers
strange python
strange python
not getting my Cara chest ...
shut garnet
strange python
i mean i started with the cloak 2months ago
balmy condor
current cap is 110, 113 next week I think
strange python
itl disappear soon anyway
bruh
ye i know
i am collecting them for Expedient+3
strange python
16k atm need 25k ...
balmy condor
❤️
balmy condor
lmao
dire spoke
urban gale
What kind of st sim numbers do we see with heroic bis
urban gale
Do we get a lot worse on 2 target?
balmy condor
better with empowered garrote cleave
urban gale
Interesting, is the expedient build dramatically better than sev strk?
solar latch
is there anything on drest that we can cloak to avoid a mechanic
balmy condor
crash
urban gale
I'm torn because I like outlaw in m+ and if I just go strike sev I can reuse a lot of gear
balmy condor
yeah that's fine
grizzled jay
you go strik/sev in M+ as Sin anyways so it all works out
dire spoke
reset is wednesday yes 8D
jovial spear
Thanks 🙂
balmy condor
lul get fked idiot
balmy condor
hemo over here sweating bullets
crimson palm
dire spoke
crimson palm
gonna take more than lucky procs to beat that shit
patent topaz
vigor, TB, TA what a monster
dire spoke
I just nuked a heroic pug by trying to solo raden purplevoid and people died running with me
oh this is not OT
balmy condor
might as well be
steep plover
Is it worth running a td1 instead of a strike/severe so i can stay below 39 corruption but still run hod or run 40 corruption with hod or just run NP instead till reset where ill be able to get above 25 corruption again
For m+
balmy condor
for a push key probably worth
upper spear
I usually run 59 corruption. Just don't stand in extra damage and trust ur healer.
steep plover
Ill give 40 a run see how it feels i just hate having to watch for thing from beyond in the middle of other mechanics 😩
fading marsh
hey guys, quick question, should i even really be looking at my DPs/Rotations/specs if im sub 100
and scrutinizing it
undone pasture
Sub 100 as in level? No
fading marsh
Yeah, level. I figured
royal lantern
game is balanced around max lvl, everything below that means nothing/is wild as hell anyway
quaint vortex
leveling actually enforces really bad habits relative to what max level gameplay will look like
fading marsh
I got a little discouraged seeing my being bottom of the DPS charts each dungeon but I figured it's because I dont have ANY of the elements of max level
royal lantern
+you can get a wrong perception cus rogue tends too be 1 of the weakest classes during lvling
royal lantern
ye thats the problem
lvling is wild
like, during lvling, arcane mage is a walking god
but when you reach max lvl where the actuall game starts?
shit spec,close too unplayable cus it sucks so hard
fading marsh
that's a relief though because I had heard rogue is one of the top classes in mythic+ right now for damage and some of their utilities, but I was doing my rotation as best as I could and I was still bottom charts
been watching videos trying to understand corruption essences and traits
balmy condor
those are all going away in less than 2 months
fading marsh
i come from BDO which is relatively complex and this stuff is still sort of complex for me
balmy condor
I wouldn't worry about that
royal lantern
^
fading marsh
I heard they were streamlining it, but I didn't know to what extent. Are they really going away?
fading marsh
well shit
low girder
corruption is literally deactivating, essences will exist until you hit new zones
royal lantern
when sl prepatch hits, all corruptions are gone
royal lantern
^
fading marsh
okay
royal lantern
get your character too max lvl, if you wanna raid try too find a guild for sl
but like, expansion is over, just enjoy yourself
misty light
if I play BotE without VoP, do I hold BotE for vendetta or use on cd?
fading marsh
I have max level and unlocking allied races to keep me busy anyway
thanks for the info
balmy condor
hold for vendetta in single target
royal lantern
when you use vop,why would you hold vendetta
like, you use a essence too REDUCE the cd, and then not use it on the reduced cd?
balmy condor
without VoP
royal lantern
read it as WITH vop
grizzled jay
@balmy condor Should I embrace triple NP VoP
balmy condor
grizzled jay
guess that's a yes 🙂
grizzled jay
i have a t3 tendies and t2 tendies and can afford another t3 this week
but raidbots says purifying all my Sev/Strk for tendies is a dps loss 
can't do it
low girder
well yeah but on avg
if you're embracing the rng for the god parse
may as well go all the way with it
grizzled jay
if you aint parsing are you even playin
low girder
tbh idk if top end with that would even beat exp
balmy condor
only VERY rarely
royal lantern
if you manage too get procs after procs after procs after procs ye
grizzled jay
listen i just need to pump my biggest parse of all time this wednesday
royal lantern
but thats the 1/10000chance
grizzled jay
its either full sev/strk or full tendies
fading marsh
ok icy veins says to run subterfuge when leveling
but do i just fuckin
in a dungeon
garrote 30 times
what do i even do with that 3 seconds
harsh sphinx
NP may be the play after corruptions gone since its on both 490s but we'll see
grizzled jay
read the wowhead guide
fading marsh
ok
royal lantern
but ye, you garrote 3targets on pull
cus subterfuge boosted garrote is a big part of your aoe dmg
balmy condor
usually ilvl until heroic gear4
balmy condor
agility is the biggest stat until you get sort of geared
fading marsh
got it
royal lantern
higher ilvl>eq it
fading marsh
so literally ignore the red and green numbers only look at ilvl
balmy condor
yeah
royal lantern
gearing for stats is a thing you do when you reach hc raid gear stuff
balmy condor
and then later on, you can worry about simming
fading marsh
understood
royal lantern
and you always gain and lose stats cus items always have mainstat+2 secondary stats
strange python
nah
fervent rune
Hey i
Looking to switch to assass Rouge from outlaw. Been stashing gear for a while now but im not positive on what talents or stats i should be going for. I see a couple guides but everything says something different. Dont want to go all in on a build and it be trash in a couple months once corruption goes away
balmy condor
run a crit poison build then
loud light
well once corruption goes away, everything is pretty much out the window anyway
balmy condor
yeah
fervent rune
Thats what i was thinking
strange python
What are the stat weights you should look for on sin
34/?/?
harsh sphinx
rancid bobcat
vers/crit/mastery ofc
strange python
ah yes ofc.
cobalt pelican
34/420/69
strange python
I'll get right on that.
Sin channel big zz
i'll message some people who are actually helpful :^)
balmy condor
upper mortar
balmy condor
harsh sphinx
wait he wasn't meming
balmy condor
I mean
he still might be
I'm not sure
@strange python if you're not actually being a meme, 34% doesn't exist, and neither do any other breakpoints
strange python
nah I know.
I'm quoting something I saw in this channel before
balmy condor
strange python
Something about the difference between 33 and 34
and how 34 should always out dps
harsh sphinx
upper mortar
balmy condor
I literally read every conversation in this channel
and I have no idea what you're talking about tbh
balmy condor
I blame @strange python
royal lantern
34%crit is bullshit
like
its a meme from a video from a guy that has weird takes on things
grizzled jay
gib link
balmy condor
infexious bleed guide
north pond
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sQzkhahnYbUEXmZ2AtZbMg any tips for essences on mythic plus boys? i know its not as good as outlaw
void pecan
nOt aS gOoD aS oUtLaw
balmy condor
void pecan
bote lucid breath conflic
north pond
ty
void pecan
Crit/strike through + eb or just do regular ol bleed build
vast forum
depends on dungeon/level/group comp/affixes
i personally run full expedient/bote/iris/breath/conflict in most dungeons, but since i've tried pushing 26 and 27 keys, i just fall way too far behind when pulls last too long
cinder ferry
Can someone explain this sentence in the Exsanguinate guide?
Do not EVER refresh Exsanguinate bleeds until they have expired
I have really never used the skill before so sorry if its a dumb question
balmy condor
once you exsang
or when you cast garrote from stealth
that bleed is empowered
subtfuge/SS gives the bleed a ton of damage, exsang makes it tick twice as fast
if you cast another garrote on that, you lose both of those
if you exsang a rupture, the rupture ticks twice as fast
if you rupture on top of that
you lose that
cinder ferry
ahh so dont cast garrote/rupture until the timer hits 0
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
that's fine for normal garrotes
but for stealth buffed or exsang buffed bleeds, that's a pretty massive loss
strange python
Finally I will be able to buy 8 Expedient III tomorrow.
weak oak
why does exsang. build sim lower still with expedient III
or am i doing something wrong lol
novel drum
just finished speed killing n'zoth with guild and realized ive been running Wits/deadshot shoulders the whole time
someone kill me
grizzled jay
if you are ever gonna mythic raid or pug, don't corrupt a 465 dagger
just kill wrathion for his 475
rancid bobcat
you dont have enough baseline haste/item level
grizzled jay
but also yeah, don't recommend using exp3 on stuff that isn't high-haste stat'd
rancid bobcat
need more sockets
novel drum
lord waycrest with exp3
weak oak
okay so i should aim to gear more still
novel drum
what is that in your offhand
novel drum
oh the offhand comes from a air drop lol
balmy condor
Yeah expedient won’t help much if you don’t have haste to begin with
3x DD + TB also does quite a bit of work
balmy condor
M+ usually fastest
novel drum
thats the best baseline to run towards, everything is 465 and theres normally always a slot you can fill from at least one dungeon
balmy condor
Mecharings are huge too
Behind/haste from junkyard/workshop respectively
That’s a big chunk of haste
novel drum
yeah someone ping raz 
harsh sphinx
there's 2 in the pins
gentle flicker
So, I dusted off my rogue since I really don't need to gear up my main or my two main alts I play. So, I am looking at Assassination because I hate outlaw and the RNG and upkeep of RtB. I am seeing M+ with strikethrough and severe, but guide is like use exp and inf stars or TD or TA, what corruption should I really be focused on?
balmy condor
depends on the content you're doing
gentle flicker
Mostly PvE, dungeons and maybe the raid. I suck at pvp in general so fuck that
balmy condor
well if you want to be optimal, you'd need 2 sets
issue is that azerite is a pain
and the only SS/EB azerite in the game is from the vendor
so given the time constraints, I would suggest an expedient build
you'll do fine in dungeons and raids with it
balmy condor
yeah looks like there's something from every dungeon
gentle flicker
Right now i am using the bought azeriite with 2x DD, 2x ttk, nothing personal blightborn as my first two tiers
fallow otter
So whispr tonight is the night for exp3 every slot
balmy condor
@gentle flicker then you should do poison/crit imo
if you don't want to get the azerite/gear for exsang
get some tendies from the raid
RNG those single targets
if you're gonna get SS azerite for dungeons anyway
that's when things get tricky
sin is kinda very fluid
and there's multiple builds that work
gentle flicker
Yeah, the problem is gearing up to get into the heroic raids for those tendies. Oof.
@balmy condor Thanks for the info. I just need something new to mess around with until prepatch/expac
balmy condor
no problemo
gentle flicker
Oh, with exp, I am assuming crit/haste for all gear?
balmy condor
haste/crit or haste/mast
mechagon rings behind/haste, vita/galecallers or vita/plumage for trinkets
gentle flicker
alright, thanks
grizzled jay
shoutouts to having full crit/mast gear
grizzled jay
im assassination right now 🙂
grizzled jay
new Blindside feels so fun
novel drum
feels great in most scenarios. any free energy/cp for sin feels orgasmic early on in the expac
selfish but i kinda wish it "hit" with both weapons so it could crit to 4 cps instead of just 3
arctic walrus
still kind of a dead talent in any circumstance you have any bit of aoe
balmy condor
can't you just be happy blindside has use
grizzled jay
hopefully it's the better ST talent tho so it can be used
just wish Slaughter replaced Ambush/SS so Blindside procs it and Sub gets stealth/dance benefits for it
arctic walrus
I wouldn't mind them reintroducing it as an actual spell (dispatch) for execute
shy dust
grizzled jay
and had to talent for it
toxic ravine
balmy condor
better than CT in single target
fallow otter
Hard disagree
Not sure it should be a thing but I'm glad that it is because if the aoe it brings
icy ember
dont worry bruh, you can roll grand melee and suddenly have a 7min snd 
fallow otter
Snd maintenance sucks hard
balmy condor
hitting a boring button every 12 seconds is much worse than hitting SND every 45
at least its a maintenance that lasts hella long
and not CT that you need to cast like every other finisher
balmy condor
feels fucking awful
fallow otter
Fuck we couldnt disagree harder, at least what we are spending on feels impactful
Snd just sucks
balmy condor
CT feels impactful single target?
balmy condor
nah bruh
fallow otter
So you are welcoming a 45s maintenance buff
balmy condor
I am welcoming it over CT
yes
I would replace CT single target with SND instantly
without a second thought
fallow otter
It's not a trade though
Let's ignore that CT is a thing
Coz i agree that it shouldn't
coarse tusk
Ct is more fun to hit over snd imo
balmy condor
then I don't think current iteration SND is good
cause it doesn't do anything
if it gave energy regen, I would be on board
fallow otter
Yeh it's trash
balmy condor
I don't actually hate SND as a concept
fallow otter
45 trash buff
balmy condor
I quite enjoy SND like back in wod
I played sub in HFC
and that was hemo, rupture, and SND
which is basically garrote rupture and SND
and I was happy
fallow otter
I feel like they are just ruining rogue by giving all the shit to all the specs
Feels gross
Poisons on every spec
balmy condor
yeah idk
fallow otter
I can't stand maintenance buffs that don't feel impactful
balmy condor
it just needs to do something
fallow otter
Yeh but it doesnt
balmy condor
in current form no
I like it for sub tho
like CP and energy from the auto passive
I'm down
for sin its just auto speed
and I think that's bad
balmy condor
that's what I mean with I don't dislike snd
fallow otter
Im not on board with things that have the power of passives but are just maintenance buffs
balmy condor
yeah
fallow otter
Adds ramp for no fun at all
And barely any ramp
Delays actually doing things because you need to tick a few boxes that barely do anything
Fuck it sucks
Ok ill stop now
I like sub being good though, but not a fan of much else
coarse tusk
Yeah i hope sub is good
strange python
It won't be that sub that we loved back in days. 
fallow otter
In before we can't play it because we just die like kingaroth
verbal mantle
uncut schooner
@balmy condor Read muh lawgs.
limpid topaz
Is there any guide how to play the haste build? (cd management)
strange python
I wonder if bleed build sucks in shadowland when all expedients been cleansed
@limpid topaz check the pins man
I jus followed the guide there
limpid topaz
Ah ye. I'm stupid. Just checked the rules and guide channel
strange python
All good man I asked the same question before lol
limpid topaz
:D
strange python
Lol
@limpid topaz if you got questions @balmy condor is the man he helped me with my haste build and now I’m clearing +18 dung
limpid topaz
I need it for the raid actually. Plans changed in the last days. Never wanted to raid myth this tier actually so I Never geared assa. In dung I'm still playing outlaw
fallow otter
Is there any guide how to play the haste build? (cd management)
@limpid topaz yes it sucks because sin is bad
You can ask questions here, nzoth has been ded for months
but it does sound hype
@balmy condor is gonna feel good for anyone with the slightest bit of ocd lol
balmy condor
tru tru
uneven summit
Expedient coming up today/tomorrow right?
balmy condor
yes
uneven summit
perfect, missing the last one for another carapace dagger
okay so be honest.. anybody else finding expedient-bleed build awkward to play?
uneven summit
Well with that many expedients it is like that for all assa speccs 😂
sacred yarrow
No
red pagoda
Killed mythic carapace on sunday, no dagger no chest 
now we won't return there until nzoth is dead
uneven summit
I tried 3xNP+VoP major for fun, was the same - same with expedients on DD build
uneven summit
Yeah
Expedients are still overall the strongest as far as i can read my way too, and from my personal experience
fallow otter
okay so be honest.. anybody else finding expedient-bleed build awkward to play?
@uneven summit not me, I kinda love it
sacred yarrow
I'm sure with DD build u would rather severe and strikethrough though
uneven summit
True the crit DD is quite good, but expedients aint bad on it - i think crit is stronger than expedient on it
sacred yarrow
Tbh idk I'm just going off of the pins
uneven summit
Do you guys play bleed build for high m+ or do you switch outlaw-vers?
fallow otter
What do you call high?
uneven summit
High 24+ and above
fallow otter
I run outlaw for everything that high except junkyard coz i love memeing zapbot
uneven summit
:D ofc
fallow otter
You kinda trolling if you don't outlaw, you are there for cc not dmg
fallow otter
Boat missed
uneven summit
Outlaw gear unfortunally overlaps with my assa pvp gushing gear
fallow otter
Best week is ending tonight
umbral rapids
fun*
fallow otter
The bursting dream
fallow otter
Please... Go on
royal lantern
Brb,going too telk everyone that is not a firemage/bm hinter that they are trolling in m+ runa
tropic ocean
royal lantern
Next Patch they are trolling too ofc,cus x and y do more dps now
umbral rapids
He more meant it like, if you’re playing arcane instead of fire you’re trolling
I think
tropic ocean
its ok, if u dont play outlaw you troll too
vagrant plover
@fallow otter what extra control does outlaw have over Assass?
Haven’t played much outlaw
vagrant plover
But gouge is cancelled by dmg right?
balmy condor
its an interrupt though
vagrant plover
Oh I assumed it would act like a stun where they just continue to cast when it’s cancelled
royal lantern
assassination is littearly slightly worse then outlaw, and people talk like its unplayable lmao
balmy condor
^^
royal lantern
are you telling every healer that is not a paladin that they are trolling in your raidteam? glimmer can pull more numbers!
balmy condor
unless you're pushing 25+, you don't really need outlaw tbh
royal lantern
wtf why do you not play a brewmaster, its the best raidtank you fking troll
fallow otter
its an interrupt though
@balmy condor don't forget bte
royal lantern
bte with stun is bad
like
REALLY bad
its a greant change outlaw loses that and gets kidney
fallow otter
You are delusional
crisp steppe
does any1 know if the nightfae shadowmeld allows you to restealth in dungeons? sorry if wrong channel. can't see a SL channel
royal lantern
all it does is getting the DR on enemys up cus its your rotational ability when you use it for actuall dmg
instead of using it for the stun
balmy condor
@crisp steppe yes, it casts vanish
royal lantern
i can immagine they can go the rotue they do with SL in bossfights
balmy condor
the pure ramp time needed to 4x stealth
royal lantern
aka, you cant re-stealth trought it or something when you are in combat
balmy condor
makes it not worth probably
shrewd night
1300 rio between top outlaw and top assa.
"slightly better" btw
crisp steppe
yeah obviously nothing more than thoughts
can just envision a world where the setups are basicly always 2x 8t spec + rogue
shroud allows you to do easier 8t pulls
rogue also has the most control out of all the melee specs
balmy condor
shroud?
shrewd night
Arent there a handful of specs without aoe caps?
I say handful, but I mean one or two
balmy condor
they'll get caps
crisp steppe
seems divided between 5t specs and 8t specs mostly
balmy condor
there's no way they just leave it
crisp steppe
hopefully not
umbral rapids
@royal lantern that’s not what I said lol
royal lantern
@shrewd night bruh, you know what i mean lel
fallow otter
Nope
instead of using it for the stun
@royal lantern if you arnt utilising the stun then you're doing it wrong, I suggest watching sebek do workshop etc
sullen pagoda
mate separation of bte and stun was a positive thing going into SL...
maybe give a counter argument instead of "you are delusional" or go watch
fallow otter
It's not just bte that's part of the conversation, not sure how much you read
Im not against getting rid of the stun but it's not what we are talking about
Oh I assumed it would act like a stun where they just continue to cast when it’s cancelled
@vagrant plover depends on the ability and mob
sullen pagoda
i mean i wouldnt call assa trolling, but i do agree that outlaw is just better
umbral rapids
Yeah calling it trolling is a little exaggerated haha
fallow otter
Yeah depends on the key level to the degree
Hence the kinda in the sentence it isn't a hard set in stone term lol
But ignoring the control that outlaw has over sin is crazy
umbral rapids
Wonder how much damage sin would lose by going full versatility 🤔
Compared to outlaw
balmy condor
I think ryfie said he lost about 10% damage switching his strikes to versatiles
full versatile isn't possible
without the severes sin is actually done for
keen tree
Are the versatiles there just to stop you from getting killed?
balmy condor
ye
umbral rapids
Yep
umbral rapids
I mean lots of teams play with a hunter as well
keen tree
if you are only doing 15 keys would crit / haste be better than crit /vers on gear? and would this then mean you could do reasonable dmg in both m+ and raid iwth the same set of gear?
keen tree
ah ok
fallow otter
I mean lots of teams play with a hunter as well
@umbral rapids gingi runs sub 40 and still uses vers
umbral rapids
Yeah but they can’t go full vers still
Hunter still falls over in a lot of scenarios from what I saw this week
When phu played hunter in FH they spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to make him survive the first boss lol
keen tree
@balmy condor i guess i really will need two sets of gear to do well in raid AND m+ but if there were a happy middle ground of stat priorities what would they be?
balmy condor
you just run exped
keen tree
exped?
balmy condor
haste build
umbral rapids
Expedient
balmy condor
does fine in dungeons
balmy condor
guide in the pins
umbral rapids
Though you should try to grind for both sets, expedient should do just fine for the key level you do for now
keen tree
kk
oh i meant the stat priority on the gear rather the corruptions
checking pins though
umbral rapids
Me too :p
keen tree
@balmy condor how are you still awake 🙂
i've had a good nights sleep AND breakfast since i spoke to you last
keen tree
<
balmy condor
It’s a great thing
I get to chill with all the EU babes
Like @umbral rapids and @uncut schooner
keen tree
lol
umbral rapids
Lol
uncut schooner
balmy condor
Nice nice
Took me 9 runs of shrine for the ring
But I also used 4 rerolls on it
So that was rip
balmy condor
M+ set brah
umbral rapids
Though the last one was a big depleto 22 🙃
keen tree
ok reading this guide i should have either crit/mastery or crit/vers gear for the crit build and haste/vers or haste/mas for the exped build.. i have mostly crit/haste gear rip
umbral rapids
Crit haste works well for haste build afaik 🤔
keen tree
ah
umbral rapids
Simmed higher when I was getting a build together
balmy condor
I think it actually says this
Considering I just screenshotted it
Haste/crit works too
Just keep simmin
umbral rapids
63 corruption monkaw
fallow otter
57
umbral rapids
57 tonight ?
Yeah
Last time I played sin
I tried to vanish the thing from beyond
fallow otter
considering those gems i think i might sim dice instead of vita
go full selfish mode
umbral rapids
oblique lark
go font bro)
stuck merlin
is the Exsanguinate + 3 Shrouded Suffocation for both mythic plus and raiding
or just raiding?
fallow otter
pretty sure we only go dice if we get go racing pulse after last cloak upgrade
balmy condor
To a point at least
stuck merlin
I'm pretty shit gear, so I just go with the poison bomb/toxic blade build for m+?
fallow otter
if you want to do both m+ and raiding and you are starting the gearing process now, its the expedient exsang for me
balmy condor
You’d play CT even with low gear
fallow otter
if i was doing it
stuck merlin
okay thank you
oblique lark
if u wanna play with RP instead HM, spyglass better than dice i think
but with actual timers font bis)
fallow otter
i dont think font can stand up anymore
my 455 hasnt been top sim for quite a whilel
shrewd night
You’d play CT even with low gear
CT low gear, but TB is better then exsang for a while
balmy condor
That’s what I said
shrewd night
Cant I not be late for once without receiving shit 
balmy condor
Don’t be late 
fallow otter
spyglass selfish mode
oblique lark
@fallow otter ofc, u need edit apl for simming font
fallow otter
more than pre-combat 5s?
oblique lark
sure