the fuck do you need too switch mains lmao
#assassination
royal lantern
balmy condor
you're trolling right
strange python
i leveled mine in assassination or outlaw i think
royal lantern
with max lvl trinket legendarys bis weapons etc....
4enemys during lvling=problems
like, thats how lvling works lol
balmy condor
sub is definitely the better leveling spec
especially if tuning makes it good into prepatch
strange python
what are the odds?
strange python
idk i'll probs level as outlaw, gonna be fun
balmy condor
probably still better to level with sub over sin
yeah outlaw is king
but i'm not sold on it yet
balmy condor
sub mobility + instant damage
royal lantern
it kills lvling enemys with shadowstrike->shadowstrike->evis, next mob
strange python
i just don't like relying on RNG
balmy condor
I do world quests in sub these days
royal lantern
rng?
strange python
ya
balmy condor
sub is less rng than sin
strange python
from roll the bones
strange python
how is it not rng?
harsh anchor
Rtb doesn’t make or break the spec. It’s a bonus that makes things easier
balmy condor
you're not going to be doing 10k damage just because you have bad rolls
royal lantern
you are more fucked by getting bad sinester strike procs
balmy condor
yea
royal lantern
then getting bad rolls and doing 2x reroll each pull
strange python
then why do people reroll every time they get buried treasure or whatever it is that's bad
balmy condor
because its worth rerolling
royal lantern
there is like a 3-4%difference bettwen somone getting perfect rolls on the first try, and somone rerolling 3x on each roll
strange python
pressing anything that doesnt deal direct dmg feels bad
balmy condor
not the discussion for this channel
royal lantern
go into outlaw and let guy explain it too you^^
thin gate
guys is there any point to farm mechagon trinket ?
to play haste mechagon trinket with Raden
balmy condor
mechagon trinket?
balmy condor
oh god no
royal lantern
naaaaah
thin gate
that arms play
royal lantern
no lel
thin gate
just askin
uncut cape
in beta you cant reroll, so its "better" i think, if your get bad rolls you need 2 play with bad buffs for a while
strange python
can u vanish on illgy without it dispelling? I should be able too right?
yo so since 8.0 increased raid boss health by a lot is it worth using deadly poison to solo old raids?
balmy condor
you always use deadly outside of pvp
strange python
alright
shy dust
Why wouldn’t you use deadly poison
celest badge
how does outlaw perform in raids?
strange python
i mean i've heard deadly does pretty good in that
balmy condor
they're worse than us chad reds tho
strange python
but i haven't had any luck
celest badge
im playing assa but im finding im constantly bottom of dps
balmy condor
you haven't had any luck using deadly poison?
royal lantern
thats rogue life in 8.3 mate
balmy condor
wound is garbage pve
thin gate
ASSA is a fcking glasscannon
strange python
why is it?
royal lantern
wut
thin gate
in 8.3
royal lantern
where is rogue a glasscannon
balmy condor
because wound is trash damage
royal lantern
we are 1 of the more durable dps classes lel
royal lantern
the fuck has that too do with glasscannon lol
and rogue is littearly more tanky then fire and bm too lol
warrior is probably 1 of the most squishy classes out there
balmy condor
breaking news, rallying cry > cloak feint crimson vial cheat death
uncut cape
30% dmg reduce every 30 sec? wtf
strange python
yeah tell that to desolate host
uncut cape
true wtf
balmy condor
my poor sin channel
uncut cape
op af
strange python
normal desolate host is hell
gl soloing heroic
also side note: am i the only one who uses leeching poison?
uncut cape
in raid or outside?
balmy condor
but if you're doing old content leeching is great
royal lantern
leeching can be good on some fights tbh
royal lantern
like, on ntzoth cheath death doesnt really do anything, so ill just go leeching
strange python
wait what? that's stupid
royal lantern
^
strange python
oh ok i thought...
royal lantern
cheath death is saving you from the "i fucked up" 1hit
uncut cape
elusiveness is of at atzoth
royal lantern
but nzoth has only raidwide dot dmg/sanity mechanic
balmy condor
u wot
royal lantern
no random 1shots
strange python
i thought they meant something else
royal lantern
so cheath death doesnt really do anything
like, you dont need too switch, leeching doesnt generate enough sustain too make a big difference
strange python
seems legit
royal lantern
but its atleast something
going cheath death for anything is allright for like 99%of all fights
strange python
except that one
uncut cape
Elusiveness > Posion > CD, at least for me
royal lantern
elusiveness is also 100%ussules on some fights....?
balmy condor
yeah
royal lantern
like, on some fights its really fking insane, on same fights it just does nothing
strange python
elusiveness is the feint one, right?
balmy condor
yes
royal lantern
yes
strange python
ah
uncut cape
30% dmg reduce is " nothing"
royal lantern
you feint on cd?
strange python
i'd rather take 70% of damage than 100%
royal lantern
on fights with incomming dot dmg and stuff?
royal lantern
like, idk about you mate, but i tend too spend my energy for doing dmg
just take nzoth again as an example
uncut cape
but i dont get oneshot because im not a bad player
balmy condor
royal lantern
big part of the dmg you get there is the dot you have the ENTIRE fight
you pull->all 20 players have a dot that deals dmg every2seconds until boss is dead
where is elusivness helping you there
unless you use feint on cd
balmy condor
I'll laugh when you feint a conduction in temple on a tyran week and wonder why you died then
royal lantern
wich is stupid as hell cus you waste a shitton of energy
balmy condor
good luck to ya bud
royal lantern
AND elusivness is only a difference too dot/st dmg
and most raid mechanics are either raidwide dot dmg OR raidwide aoe dmg
uncut cape
wtf nzoth is the perfect Elusiveness, you geht like 10k dmg from the raid aOE, and every debuff you can use it asswell in P3...
royal lantern
and, oh wait, raidwide aoe dmg is reduced by default feint allready
balmy condor
elusive doesn't reduce aoe damage
royal lantern
and btw
balmy condor
u wot
royal lantern
you have frking healers
and thats no "omg healers heal more"
but more like"healers will aoe heal"
huge raid aoe dmg=1-2 healers use a raid cd and top everyone
and they dont care if you are at 48% or 38%hp at that point cus you WILL get topped
quasi pewter
elusiveness is very good on nzoth
balmy condor
not for reason listed though
debuffs? yes great
elusive for aoe?
kinda weird argument
quasi pewter
im not reading all of that
strange python
Can you vanish on illgynoth without dispelling yourself?
balmy condor
I agree
quasi pewter
yes you can vanish
strange python
ty
royal lantern
@uncut cape the really easy explanantion is
there is more or less 2kinds of dmg in raid encounters
1:the dmg that is supposed too happen anyway and healers are supposed too heal trought
2:avoidable dmg that will almost 100%kill you except you have a immunity cus you didnt,well, AVOID it
celest badge
any thoughts on haste/crit stat priority for assa? when i sim it always sims me into crit/mastery
balmy condor
haste/crit you go exsang and pump prio and cleave
celest badge
currently sim'd into
31% crit
17% haste
47% Mastery
5% versatility
balmy condor
if you're trying to aoe you'll go crit/vers and EB stack
vers helps survival too
crit/mast is fine too, but if you're EB stacking, vers is just better
celest badge
EB stack?
celest badge
does it not really screw your damage on m+ bosses?
balmy condor
sure it does, but you're saving more time by pumping aoe
TB crit stack is also pretty solid burst
celest badge
so whats better for raid?
balmy condor
haste
tons and tons of haste
more haste
there's a guide in the pins
very in depth and very recent
that'll give you all the info you need
celest badge
so crit/haste and haste corrupt. and use exsang. do i take crimson tempest then too?
balmy condor
haste/crit or haste/mast, and crimson tempest when you have enough haste
just have to sim and see if its better
again, all in the guide in the pins
balmy condor
that's probably fine
celest badge
i will play with it again
balmy condor
stat weights are inaccurate
strange python
What I've notised that PB still better than CT on 36% haste but it's more about what sim says personally.
balmy condor
you need to get to roughly 60% for CT
strange python
Well 36% haste is not even any corruptions yet on me.
Yeap.
This is what I am right now.
But I still would take CT in cleave situations.
Or for visions. 
thin gate
guys
do u think in shadowlands we still gonna deal with that fcking haste stack?
or other stat weights
balmy condor
probably haste
normal olive
I hope so
thin gate
😦
normal olive
it's fun
thin gate
haste is fun for u?
normal olive
ye
balmy condor
haste is the fun stat for sin
normal olive
would you rather stack vers?
balmy condor
casting 1 ability every 4 seconds is not fun
normal olive
balmy condor
we still stacked haste
mastery stacking was only good cause poison bomb and envenom damage was crazy with it
cause it scaled like sub mastery
with mastery scaling bleeds now, haste is pretty hot
normal olive
Wait yeah
thin gate
150%+ on proc
normal olive
i'm dumb
thin gate
is crazy button smashing
strange python
Assassination is too slow outside of haste build.
thin gate
i want to click 1 poison
strange python
Who wants to play slow class?
thin gate
1 dot and afk
normal olive
why?
balmy condor
wrong game
normal olive
They are elfs
strange python
Well there is some stupidity about making sin kinda melee afliction but it's still fun to play and more useful than most other dps.
thin gate
guys honest question
most here are sin mains
would u guys consider it a "hard" class
compared to others?
normal olive
Not hard
balmy condor
sin is ez pz
balmy condor
you want a hard spec play sub
thin gate
sin is hard to play
balmy condor
they're wrong
thin gate
when i say i play sin
lel
idk it feels kinda smooth since i main it
compared to other stuff
normal olive
because of the haste
thin gate
7.2.5 mastery>8.3 Haste
normal olive
In my opinion the haste build is the most fun it ever was
strange python
Somehow rogue seems easier than any other class to me.
Assassination is no doubt easiest spec of all rogue ones.
But like class design cover pretty much everything to be needed in every part of game content.
normal olive
Outlaw is the most braindead shit i've ever played
strange python
@normal olive don't remind me about this garbage.
RtB is cancer.
Most other classes that you will play after rogue will have lack of mobility or dps, or burst dps...or don't have dots at all what makes them kinda shitty at some encounters.
normal olive
Yeah rogue has a lot of tools
strange python
Only reason no to play rogue after rogue is having fun of your other main. Like...I like udk on arena for example. It's different. War is different, but when you go pve arms or fury you will have lots of bad feelings about it.
normal olive
Well if assa is trash in SL i'ma play boomy
main warren
I think fury is hella fun
weary current
With everyone capped (in part) on targets isn't fury gonna be pretty decent considering pulls should be smaller?
strange python
Only arms. And play arms in SL is cancer cz you will have to have different covenants for each part of content. And if you want to tank offspec - same.
main warren
and the mandatory outlaw rogue for utility
strange python
Welp.
It's a price for willing to do very high m+.
My guild doesn't wanna take me in even 15+, that's why I'm having more io than 99% already as assa.
lone junco
@balmy condor is this really the best meta in a long time? Seems really neat.
Haste exang specifically
balmy condor
huh?
lone junco
I didn't like the DD MA build. Expedient exang seems neat.
Just kinda bummed I missed out. Bracer boot with 45 sec vendetta in legion was my favorite raid. But shoulder DFA sub was my favorite for keys.
Current high crit eb seems better than sub shoulder.
olive gale
For simming, does raidbots let you configure how many people in your party have a vita?
balmy condor
no
daring parrot
what is going on with the 34% crit for 3cp mutilates? 😮
balmy condor
@strange python look at what you've done
normal olive
balmy condor
I blame you for this
balmy condor
@daring parrot that doesn't exist and you should tell everyone it doesn't exist. 34% is a meme, has no bearing on reality, and 3cp mutilates are completely RNG
daring parrot
lmao
normal olive
How dare you try to hide the biggest mechanic rogues have D:
shadow wedge
normal olive
33 / 82 / 33 
need 1 more % crit
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fGK9YddT2pni1qqxMU52N9 34% crit is a lie D: it sims 200 dps worse then 33%
you heard it here first
balmy condor
big surprise
loud light
you must have something else set up wrong
I've actually never watched whatever video this is that the meme comes from
I'm afraid it'll break my brain
loud light
does he try to explain "the math"
normal olive
Wait why does my ring have gushing on it 
balmy condor
nope
outer lotus
because its a gushring
loud light
okay, pure feels
balmy condor
yep
normal olive
I'm getting used to the keybinds btw 
Only vanish reseting every second pull on accident
One day i'll get that damn ring
low tinsel
Hello! Quick question. What is the best gear one can buy from the Titan Residuum vendor? I have enough to afford a specific piece just haven't a clue where to start
normal olive
Depends on what build you playing
balmy condor
in m+ you're looking for anything with EB/SS together, the helm you should specific buy
if you're looking for raid stuff
you should buy goraks or the clockheart shoulders
strange python
Clockworks +1 because theyre good for raid and you can reforge the CWH to EB for m+ or Hivemind
normal olive
Wait i just noticed the Type II Bomber Jacket has SS / Eb
balmy condor
yuh
normal olive
Now i only need a head with SS / EB
balmy condor
so does clockwork shoulders
low tinsel
Thank you very much for the informtion
low tinsel
sweet
craggy seal
whispyr is a nerd
normal olive
Whispyr is a good boi
craggy seal
normal olive
weebs 
dire spoke
fallow otter
@normal olive instead of iris or formless
normal olive
gimme a minute
night kindle
What's EB?
night kindle
Ah, duh. Ty
normal olive
Simming it right now Stunkei
Does Formless void sims consider raid members using stuff?
balmy condor
there's a setting for uptime
normal olive
Hmh i thought it doesn't consider others, guess bote is acutally better
since 90% was the uptime
fallow otter
Yeah it relies on others using their essence
normal olive
We got both tanks running crucible so i thought it would be better
but bote sims higher even with 100% uptime
strange python
you use gcb and clf
both devalue haste so to say
so formless void isnt as strong in that setting
short coyote
If anyone has a sec could you take a look at my sim and see if I'm doing anything blatantly wrong? Feel like my dps sims low for my ilvl but maybe I'm just bad https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kPFcYrPP8epP6kK6FyQtTu
normal olive
You have like 0 corruptions
short coyote
Yeah waiting for expedient 3 to come back
So just rocking what I got atm
I've got a belt with infinite stars 3 that sims way higher, but most fights outside of mythic aren't long enough to make use of it
strange python
you probs do more dmg with botd instead of bote major with the ranks you have atm
normal olive
Oh yeah rank 1
short coyote
Oh yeah good point
normal olive
strange python
balmy condor
oh
I locked the minor
KEK
that's what that should've been
@strange python thanks for calling me out :)
short coyote
ty guys for the help ❤️
strange python
i did my own sim, had nothing to do with you
short coyote
I only started playing again a fewweeks ago. The essence grind is 👎
short coyote
Was looking forward to grinding BOTE during the brawl this week
normal olive
F this
balmy condor
both pvp essences are BiS in m+
short coyote
then they changed it last second gg actiblizzard
short coyote
short coyote
yeah playing with a bunch of friends or that'd be the move tbh
lean marten
play with ur friends by all means
fallow otter
Time for druid discord?
lean marten
i still got like 4 months :^)
void sinew
what pot you guys run for prepot on vex?
balmy condor
unbridled
fallow otter
I don't pot on vex
Coz we dont even bother killing it anymore
Lol
One day raid lyfe is awesome
arctic walrus
void sinew
i've killed raden 15 times 13 heroic, 2 mythic and never gotten a drop?
including rerolls each time?
Blizzard
fallow otter
Well that sounds extremely unlucky to get literally nothing
void sinew
like it honestly feels like a bug at this point
fallow otter
I have the worst luck in my raid group that's for sure
Every tier can't get dagger
Eventually after like 3 months it gets passed to me
void sinew
yeah, feel like that's how it's gonna go just blows for parses when you trying to keep up with peanut gear
fallow otter
Then I can actually have a go at parsing
void sinew
exactly
balmy condor
poggers
low girder
it's gone now, thanks vendor
the fist is super dumb though, i finally got one this week
nova basalt
Every tier can't get dagger
@fallow otter I had this problem in BoD
fallow otter
Me 2 lol
I've got plenty of gear now but for the amount of mythics kids I have, it's expected haha
But... It gets passed to me
Im always last
So shit
Mates make memes about it
nova basalt
Looking for that sweet sweet mythic cara dagger atm
With my luck the other rogue will get it....
As is tradition
harsh sphinx
low girder
trade you my 4th for another fist
so i never have to do ra-den again
cannot believe i managed 4 before 1 fist, ridiculous lol
normal olive
Running with Raden around the boss room to get more time before orbs hit is the best
surreal ledge
Noob question, is it bad to clip bleeds that arent empowered?
balmy condor
Clipping is casting before it’s done
normal olive
ah
balmy condor
Pandemic is a mechanic where you can reapply a bleed and get up to 30% extra duration. Let’s do an example cause that’s always a confusing sentence
Garrote for example is 18 seconds long, always
30% of 18 is 5.4
So you can get up to 5.4 extra seconds on the new garrote
You get that time from the old garrote that’s already applied
surreal ledge
I see so theres a window i should be refreshing
balmy condor
So you can refresh garrote with say 4 seconds, and the new one will have 22 seconds
If you do it exactly at 5.4, you’ll get 23.4 seconds on the new one
surreal ledge
Got it ty
balmy condor
It works the same way with rupture/CT
Some things to note though. The damage is completely the new dot
normal olive
Does it also work the same for posions?
balmy condor
Yes
normal olive
gotta make a deadly poison WA to know when to pendemic my Posion Knife
balmy condor
So overwriting an empowered garrote with an unempowered garrote, gives you the extra duration, but you lose the empowered damage
surreal ledge
Is it better to let those drop off?
balmy condor
The other thing to note is that it’s 30% of the NEW dot, not the old one, so you can’t get 30% of a pandemic’d dot and just make a gigantic 60 second dot for example. Also means that the pandemic range changes based on the combo points of your rupture, since that changes the duration
Yes, never overwrite empowered bleeds
Exsang’d bleeds, nightstalker, subterfuge, all no-no’s
surreal ledge
Ok
balmy condor
That’s also why you double garrote in the exsang opener :)
normal olive
Wait but where is the poison knife in your opener?
balmy condor
Navi no
normal olive
balmy condor
Yeah mechanics will actually do damage in mythic :P
normal olive
That's the whole reason for mythic
balmy condor
Very annoying of them to do that
balmy condor
:) you should find a cp counter that makes you happy
surreal ledge
Haha yeah 2nd week in for me, at 9/12m havent gotten the chance to really feel out the fights.
balmy condor
Do you want me to be not lazy and make seperate 5/6 CP bars? XD
balmy condor
Yeah I used those for a long time
normal olive
Trying to make a wa that triggers when i get BBI and Clockwork Heart
but i suck so i dunno how that shit works
balmy condor
Trigger aura buff player
normal olive
Yeah i got that far
balmy condor
Name blightborne infusion
normal olive
but i can't get it to track the uptime and only appear while the proc is there and stuff
normal olive
Yeah the remaining time of the buff
normal olive
Gotta do that after i kill raden
balmy condor
Vanish to drop combat so you can open the weakaura settings
And change it mid fight
normal olive
I'm on my DH xD
balmy condor
Wrong discord
balmy condor
normal olive
Only playing it because i'm to lazy to lvl classes from lvl 1
normal olive
Weeb
balmy condor
Who would’ve thought the anime pfp guy is a weeb
versed mica
river hearth
At what haste level does CT perform better than Poison Bomb in keys?
balmy condor
0%
river hearth
huh?
balmy condor
I lied about sleeping my sleep schedule is fucked
CT is always better than PB unless you’re running TTK or a high, boss focused key, while running a crit build
normal olive
You said you go sleept >:c
balmy condor
The worst kind
shrewd night
🙂 you should find a cp counter that makes you happy
Let me find a whispyr that makes me happy
Still looking.
fallow otter
Mine is edited a bit but am I the only one using afenar
river hearth
Thanks for the help @balmy condor Couple last questions. lol... Is the target count for using CT 3+ and does it replace Envenom all together on AOE or do you just use it enough to keep the buff up?
low girder
wow koffing wtf
balmy condor
Depends on build and situation
CT on 3 is a good rule
It can replace envenom on 7+
If you’re running a crit build in m+ though, you’re overcapping CP anyway
So your finisher rules are pretty janky
And depends highly on what’s going on
balmy condor
Then maintain CT on 2, or 1 if you get enough haste for it
And it replaces envenom at 7
river hearth
Ok thanks. and yeah I read the guide and saw 71% was when it becomes part of the single target rotation.
balmy condor
Well
That’s not entirely accurate
It depends highly on character
I’ve simmed people who simmed higher with it at 53-55%
river hearth
Ok, so overall when I'm beginning... CT on 3+ and over envenom on 7+. When I go SS and get some haste it becomes 2+ and eventually it could be on single target
balmy condor
Yeah that’s fine
river hearth
Ok cool. That helps a lot.
balmy condor
@shrewd night love me dad :( I took balls to the face and this is how you treat me
river hearth
I don't because I've been buying essences, I do have a Racing Pulse 2 and a Racing Pulse 3 I'm gonna be equipping shortly. Then I'm planning to try and get Exp3 on Tuesday. But I'll only have enough for 1.
maybe 2 by the end.
fallow otter
Farm hard, spam 2s or m+
shrewd night
balmy condor
low girder
also forgot to check when HM3 comes up
since i wussed out and bought a GW instead to stay under 40
oh, the 21st
:\
fallow otter
Using an exp3 will be pretty good instead
low girder
yeah i have one banked
fallow otter
Yeah like 450 a key is nice
low girder
might do that instead
although tbh i think we're pulling out of everything except cara/nzoth soon
and i don't care enough to run 55 on that
shrewd night
I have one piece left to corrupt. Its going to be a HM3.. But I cant slap it on until max resistance 
steel ridge
And it replaces envenom at 7
@balmy condor CT replaces ENV at 7 targets? did i get that right?
balmy condor
Yes
steel ridge
ah you mean as a cp dump
balmy condor
As a finisher in general, correct
steel ridge
but isnt that redundant if you are spamming FoK anyway at that amount of targets and only weave in a finisher to keep up the 4s EP buff?
balmy condor
Yeah, if you’re already EPweaving, it’s basically a mute point
But it’s a good rule for exsang builds who don’t epweave on stuff like tol dagor beach, or hivemind, etc
balmy condor
Epweaving is what 3x EB does in m+
Where we overcap combo points and use a finisher to refresh EP
dense axle
Moot point. Not mute
balmy condor
Wait no
low girder
f
balmy condor
But anyway, with a crit build you’re looking to spam fok
So you fok until ep runs out, and then use a finisher to get ep back up
Usually a rupture in preparation for the energy starve you get once the subt garrotes fall off
Or a CT for damage/uptime
Some people call it epweaving for simplicity
It’s not a very widespread term tbh and I wish it was
novel cedar
What are people usually running for Major/minors for Sin PVE Raid/Mythics?
balmy condor
In raids you’re looking at either
CLF/blood/iris/breath
Blood/iris/formless/breath
Blood/iris/lucid/breath (this is for low haste)
And in m+ you’ll see mostly
Blood/lucid/strife/breath
Blood/iris/strife/breath (this is for high haste)
There’s a guide in pins as well that goes over essence choices
novel cedar
you can get it in 1 week with heroic/mythic EP
wary kelp
damn ive been putting it off but thats good to hear
novel cedar
how much is considered low haste?
fallow otter
Whats the question really
Ohhh for m+
Using crit corruption instead of expedient
Would mean low haste, so use lucid
balmy condor
Anything under like 50%
shrewd night
YOu can get it in two weeks if you full clear mythic. But doing azshara 
fallow otter
No ce for ep koffing?
balmy condor
Sign up with gallywix boosting to sell mythic azshara, then do that on 2 different characters, and then delete the second character
shrewd night
Sure did, but I wont recommend doing azshara for someone whos been holding it off 
balmy condor
All the progress you made on the second character gets auto transferred to the first
Ez 1 week
shrewd night
Ye, you get exactly enough if you clear three times on hc.
shrewd night
'wdym we need to hold dps'
fallow otter
BoD Mvp
dire spoke
strange python
can anyone provide a bit of guidance on cp usage? Is it a non-optimal to mutilate if I have 4 CP(5CP with Deeper Strat)?
royal lantern
normaly, 4-5 cp->finisher
with deeper you can do rupture with 4cp cus energy is no problem anyway at that point
and ofc with deeper you then do finishers at 5-6cp
overcapping cp is pretty bad
strange python
Are there any times you'd want to mutilate at 5CP to get a 6CP finisher?
or is that just stupid
royal lantern
right now? nope
strange python
hmm, okay. Thanks Tryan!
royal lantern
its pretty simple, you would spend a high amount of energy(mutilate is expensive af) for 1cp,and 1cp doesnt really make THAT much of a difference
crimson palm
Are there any times you'd want to mutilate at 5CP to get a 6CP finisher?
@strange python ye rupture before exsan
royal lantern
instead of just spending and effective generate on your next generator
upper mortar
You do need to get to 6 cp for the opener if it went 5 cp and you used CT before
scarlet sequoia
normal olive
vestal wren
it was the best for the last 2 xpacs, so its fine to assume its the best spec
normal olive
was it tho
vestal wren
subtlety was for one tier stronger but got nerfed fairly quick (tomb of sageras)
vestal wren
during tomb you still had ~33% of the rogue players stay on sin
ebon ocean
vestal wren
subtlety is always decent in pvp
vestal wren
you could ask in #pvp for information from more active/competitive pvp players
for m+ outlaw was quite good too so sin is not dominant in m+
normal olive
Yeah i know how things are atm, dunno how it was from Antorus to EP
vestal wren
sub was the dominant m+ spec in later legion given you could funnel dps
outside of very single target oriented dungeons
tropic ocean
sin is pretty much go to spec for pvp in current meta
graceful dove
Hello guys! Quick question! If talented crimson tempest, in Aoe cenários, after applying garrote to 3 target and some ruptures, should I just spam FOK and 5cp crimson tempest every time? Even if crimson dot is ticking? Like, FOKx4/5 CT, FOKx4/5 CT... and keep going? Thanks!
scarlet sequoia
np
silent crescent
Pretty sure at low enemy count you want envenom and at high enemy count with full echoing blades, fok is just more dmg than ct by a mile
tropic ocean
yeah
silent crescent
So you only maintain bleed
tropic ocean
u just keep the dot up in fok build
with full haste build no echoing usually ct dmg is higher than fok, but pretty much better off pumping prio rather than increasing overall aoe
when playing haste buildf
graceful dove
So in 450-460 ilvl without proper corruption CT build isn’t viable? Better go poison bomb?
last ingot
how do u see assa's AOE in shadowlands? We wont have echoing blades. Also losing ss for m+?
strange python
@graceful dove if you have 40% haste and 30% crit with about 40% mastery and proper trinkets and azeriths than you can. I did it.
But I doubt that with 450-460 it's possible to have proper azeriths for this build.
I mean...lil more than a week ago I was 458 alt rogue.
graceful dove
@strange python thanks! I just lvl an alt rogue and it’s 450 ilvl, I just did some myrhics and with CT build i was doing way more dps than with poison bomb, but maybe I’m doing the rotation bad that’s all
silent crescent
@last ingot purely depends if we can keep uncapped CT and fok imo. Also if people start pulling less, that generally is good for sin anyway for multi dotting
Heard they might have been capped though
strange python
@graceful dove if you already trying to build bleed assa than CT will win in cleave and aoe especially if your targets are not living longer than your garrote (except bosses).
But for your ilvl it's easier to build up EB/SS for m+ and DDx3 for raid.
Just seem it and try to understand deeper.
And talk to ppl here. It helps.
graceful dove
Yeah I got 3 SS and 2 EB, tried just switching poison bomb and ct, and ct in terms of gameplay seemed to come ahead, even it dmg
But I was spamming CT when I had 5cp; overlapping the dot, and don’t know if it’s worth’s or not
strange python
Simlly you can't get better if you are not taking someone else expirience. Rogue is not that thing when you figure it out by yourself unless you play it forever.
graceful dove
Yeah, having this channels help a lot 🙂
strange python
There is some WA that shows you when you can overlap. Only problem with them when you play complete build, you gotta remember when your bleeds bursted and when you got garrote empowered.
royal lantern
tbh, not overwriting empowered dots is a thing that you learn overtime
strange python
@royal lantern I honestly got it on next day playing build and watching dps changes.
graceful dove
But from what I understand, only way a CT DOt can get empowered is with vendetta? And that’s just on a single target, or I’m missing something?
normal olive
strange python
Than it was just common sense but you are braindead playing after arms.
royal lantern
well, exsang is "empowering" dots by making them tick faster
but ye, thats it for ct
and vendetta is a flat increase, doesnt snapshot and stuff
strange python
Russian tank and heal?
tropic ocean
absolute class balance
royal lantern
that happens when you dont play a real spec smh
tropic ocean
no matter how u floorpov still top meters
royal lantern
you dont think that hunter pet autoattacks doing 70%of the class dmg is a good desing :?
tropic ocean
:>
strange python
Watch udk in SL.
strange python
!iq
royal lantern
only in offtopic
strange python
Ya I know. It's just there for hunter theme.
tropic ocean
big yikes
tropic ocean
😮
normal olive
Never seen a WS ring drop
shadow wedge
shadow wedge
dire spoke
@normal olive are you doing 10k more already with your fancy keys
dire spoke
normal olive
and my fingers hurt
and i stun and kick randomly
because i press the wrong buttons
and don't forget the random vanish plays
why am i doing this
dire spoke
you just want to be loved
normal olive
I'm trying my best okay?
randomly shadowstepping into shit is my favourite thing to do
verbal mantle
unbind step 
normal olive
Step is on D tho 
tropic ocean
theres rumours that a rogue has or has not accidently shadowstepped with drestagath debuff straight into group
😎
normal olive
outer lotus
i used shadowstep in ilgynoth yesterday
apparently its not a good idea
i survived though 
normal olive
We got 2 assas, gotta show him who the real clown is
vast forum
killing spree and DFA were far more fun to die to than shadowstep 🙂
dire spoke
I may or may not have tried to shstep my paranoia mate but still had nzoth in target and died in anguish voids
normal olive
Just wait till i try to play shadow with keybinds and randomly press surrender to madness
vast forum
@dire spoke i did that too
dire spoke
amber quail
finally beta 🤗
normal olive
somber pike
Gratz .. got beta but power been out due to the storm
drifting hare
any information yet of what rogue spec will be the next big thing for PvE?
mellow pier
We dont even have all our stuff
drifting hare
for what I've read rogue does not look promising (couldnt test it myself yet)
mellow pier
How would anyone know that
mellow pier
A rogue does not play a spec
hallow coyote
It's a bit early to make that proclamation friend
mellow pier
A rogue plays a class
hallow coyote
Rogue has the least available info of any class on beta
mellow pier
Our development is really bad tbf atm
SnD being added adds no value to any of the specs. We just play like a really really slow bfa rogue atm
drifting hare
rogue development felt was always a bit off
mellow pier
But were a melee with feint and cloak. Our place is the same as every xpac
drifting hare
I have no problem with playing for utility but since a few player know what a rogue is capable off
mellow pier
We can fill almost any role on a fight if we swap specs and talents
The problem in SL is covenant and soulbinds for each spec and if they overlap. We dont know any of that yet
drifting hare
im tired of playing assa. now you can say play a different spec but somehow and you know the deal, you're forced to it if you playing progress
also tried sub rogue with good corruptions but it is hot air
mellow pier
I would not wish playing sub on prog for anyone tbh
A spec that suffers from downtime is a yikes for me for prog
Id play a warrior if i wanted to play that
drifting hare
im rogue all my life, 100% through
cant think about playing a different class
i can only hope for a decent development
mellow pier
Legion we got a lot of attention. I assume we wont see that for awhile since we are not in the state some other specs are in
The problem with us is we get the same systems every xpac cause they work. Instead these should be baseline and we should get new systems
outer lotus
Isnt SnD kinda the same as crimson tempest in single target in beta? People complain that its "just another plate to spin" but people liked when CT replaced PB in single target
normal olive
But what if you have to press both
outer lotus
Well you press snd like 4x less often than CT so people will be fine
drifting hare
it kinda is another weak aura you have on your display
normal olive
But what if we get a exang for SnD
outer lotus
Yea its just "press once every 45 seconds". Sure it doesnt add anything to the spec but i dont Think it takes away either
quasi ledge
Very different when we have the current haste levels. SnD is just another bullshit button that's there for no reason and will only be another icon on your screen to refresh while also slowing down and clunking up openers/world content
drifting hare
I don't like playing classes where you have to keep up several buffs and debuffs at the same time, at least for me, it is really drainingf
drifting hare
I liked sub rogue in warlords of draenor. It was the more complex spec in a good way
rogue development feels a bit forced. "you want more diversity? here, just take another spell you have to keep up"
quasi ledge
Shiv being a baseline Toxic Blade and a utility enrage dispel is mindbogglngly dumb as well. And imagine when Exang sims higher in SL, having to juggle both will be awful
drifting hare
instead of making serious thoughts about revamping
vast forum
what exactly was exciting about wod sub @drifting hare ?
other than setbonuses and trinkets
but that's not class design
drifting hare
wod was the peak of Sub Rogue. Easy to learn, hard to master, and the payoff was worth the time and effort. Some of the most fun I’ve ever had playing WoW
vast forum
hard to master?
drifting hare
it was perfectly balanced, fun to play.
vast forum
it was literally
drifting hare
sub rogue was always considered one of the hardest specs
drifting hare
opinions might go different ways
mellow pier
@outer lotus it just serves no purpose
vast forum
please elaborate on what exactly was hard on wod sub?
drifting hare
but cataclysm was also great. especially for spine
mellow pier
Sub was arguably harder in EN for legion than wod
vast forum
i would agree
mellow pier
U needed 7 binds for shd/SM
drifting hare
i feel like rogue got worse from xpac to xpac or am I wrong?
compared to previous addons
vast forum
no
drifting hare
then im alone with that
vast forum
DFA sub was the best iteration of any spec ever for me personally
lone junco
Was fun for sure.
vast forum
i may be in the minority here, liking DFA, but it was objectively more complex than wod sub
lone junco
Progress on KJ was neat with the knockback into DFA.
mellow pier
WoD sub wasnt complex but it also wasnt an unfinished spec
DFA sub really shouldnt have existed as it did
It was fun for sure
lone junco
The delayed stealth helped.
vast forum
DFA sub not only should have existed
but blizz should have expanded on it, rather than scrapped it
mellow pier
@vast forum it only worked cause of a weird interaction with symbols
vast forum
it had no weird interaction with symbols
vast forum
no, you dance in the air
mellow pier
It was weird man
vast forum
you symbol before DFA
mellow pier
Whatever it was
It was bugged
Not intended
Great spec yes. But not their design intent
vast forum
why not? nowhere did it say that the animation lock should/would prevent you from using off-gcd abilities
mellow pier
And blizzard only lets u play the game they design
vast forum
you could also use evasion in the air
or cloak
i think
the only thing DFA did was put your abilities on a 2 sec global
drifting hare
they also should remove smoke bomb gated behind pvp or war mode in general
I liked the 10% damage reduction
vast forum
while i personally agree
i see why it is considered OP
rogues have enough utility as it is
if they gave smoke bomb to a struggling class, i'd be happy to see its return
drifting hare
a lil bit of raid support does not hurt
vast forum
we're already by far the best utility spec in m+
imagine if we could group up ranged mobs as well
at some point you have to wonder if you're asking for fun, or to be overpowered af
drifting hare
not talking about m+
don't get rid of the feeling that rogues as such are simply uninteresting for the masses
vast forum
where do you get that info?
drifting hare
i also browse the logs of semi progress guilds and rarely find rogues in their squad
vast forum
what are semi progress guilds?