y'all just chill
#assassination
balmy condor
stable fern
I agree and hated even bringing it up, but someone decided to attack us here. But thats ok. We defended ourselves and that is it.
balmy condor
this is a class discord
strange python
koffing isnt real he cant hurt you
drifting cloud
normal olive
Well time to try out these new keybinds and learn not to be a Pepega 
balmy condor
strange python
play some bgs maybe that helped me ages ago
spice cedar
I am not going to discuss this further, because this isn't the proper place. I am just upset that this was taken way out of context. Goodluck @proud horizon.
shrewd night
normal olive
Gotta learn to not press buttons i used normaly
Like D is shadowstep now so i might accidently just shadowstep
normal olive
q and e for movement
balmy condor
qwes?
normal olive
yea
crimson palm
Don't go off topic drama's on the menu
dire spoke
normal olive
Dunno i only ever used strife
zenith glen
Hello , I'm working on haste build for my rogue but Sims keep telling me to replace all gems and enchants to crit... What's the reason for it ? Does raidbots not sim for haste build ?
balmy condor
are you simming against both haste and crit gems?
strange python
do you use a gcb trinket?
zenith glen
Yeah I selected both , am I suppose to pick just one ?
dire spoke
can you share the sim?
drifting cloud
we scale like poop, exp is just the best corr to stack that isnt rng based
it doesnt mean haste will be your best stat by 100%
but yeah just link the sim, youre prolly just super low on crit
stable fern
@lone junco No one ever told her that. She is making that up.
lone junco
🚪 /afk
balmy condor
@shrewd night @arctic walrus
dire spoke
lmao
balmy condor
just ping ahead of time
proud horizon
Idk who that is, sorry guys.
fast nacelle
stable fern
@spice socket
balmy condor
normal olive
runic kiln
GW on a 485 better as a last non-exped corruption than the mastery or crit procs?
dire spoke
You can use raidbots to answer this question
runic kiln
not really, since i dont have max yet and it just keeps telling me to add expeds
drifting cloud
mastery and crit procs are 35 corr gw is only 15
dire spoke
wdym, you can define how many slots it should use for your set purify-corr setting
outer lotus
ive seen the screenshots of the nonsense you guys are spouting 
runic kiln
yes but if you arent already fully corrupted and select multiple corruptions to get it maxed, it will min/max it terribly
balmy condor
vaughn no
runic kiln
itll just spit exped onto everything
balmy condor
how do you think people simmed the top combo like 2 months ago
arctic walrus
@stable fern stop being hypocritical and handle this issue privately. Nobody here cares about your guild drama and interpersonal issues. No need to @ higher ups
stable fern
@arctic walrus I did that because I spoke with him directly and sent screenshots of the original conversation. I am unsure why people keeps bring it up and attack us. But thanks.
arctic walrus
Because you keep coming Back in here.
lone junco
@fast nacelle ❤️
dire spoke
@dire spoke 
mighty elm
Are you denying me some content 
gilded laurel
hey, vanish removes miasma slow in mythic shadhar?
balmy condor
if you have the slow, it doesn't remove it
gilded laurel
😦
ember viper
Where FoK and CT target capped before this beta build? Just believed the tooltips until now but after testing it they are both capped to 8 with tooltips that say all
silent crescent
target capping a class that depends on large numbers of targets hit for resources, yikes
balmy condor
Idk if it was documented
I feel like if it was, it would've been a shit show in here
are you sure its 8 target?
ember viper
did multiple tests pulling the start of UR. Every pull had details shows my FoK hits as 8xnumber of casts and CT ticks as a multiple of 8, going up in 8's so yes
balmy condor
interesting
ember viper
dunno what happens with multiple casts if CT, was kinda hard to test on my own in UR as a level 50
balmy condor
yeah
idk how that'll work out
but I'm happy its 8 and not 5
lets get real, it was bound to happen
ember viper
i was choosing to believe that they wanted Sin to be the aoe spec, Outlaw to be the cleave spec and Sub to be the funnel spec. But after the unholy changes it seemed inevitable, hence me testing
balmy condor
yeah I mean the whole design philosophy is that there is nothing past 8 targets atm
you can't go bigger than 8, that is the aoe
ember viper
for melee at least yeah
normal olive
How would that work with big pulls
normal olive
Are the 8 targets chosen randomly or are you allways hitting the same 8
outer lotus
8closest
balmy condor
^ that's my assumption as well based on other classes
outer lotus
So you can move through the pack to choose Who you hit kinda
normal olive
ah
balmy condor
the question is
how much does that actually change things
cause if you have multidot classes
who can still maintain stuff like CT on 20-30 mobs
the target cap may as well not exist
balmy condor
shiv legendary only copies to 1 target
normal olive
balmy condor
so that's a mute point
outer lotus
Pretty sure all the spells that put dots on all targets in 1 gcd are getting capped too right?
normal olive
My dreams are gone 
balmy condor
well CT hasn't gotten that treatment yet
outer lotus
Where FoK and CT target capped before this beta build? Just believed the tooltips until now but after testing it they are both capped to 8 with tooltips that say all
balmy condor
would love to get beta at some point blizz, 4 expansions later
ember viper
dont believe sunfire is capped, but until an hour ago i would have said the same about CT
ember viper
as in can you have more then 8 CT dots out?
outer lotus
It should yea
ember viper
I believe you can but not 100%, as i died 0.5 sec after my 2nd CT most times
balmy condor
cause I can see a world of mass pull meta
where you get multidotters
and the sin rogue just square dances
CT fok CT fok CT fok CT
to hit everything
ember viper
need a lot of crit to get full cp with fok now though
surreal nova
not sure if thatss efficient
outer lotus
Most of the time you pull significantly more than 8 Mobs is when you pull smallies and stuff
balmy condor
yeah but you see the idea right
ember viper
yeah
outer lotus
Think its 14
balmy condor
yeah but if we can CT all 14, that's strictly better than someone who can't
outer lotus
But yea i just hope they went a bit easier in worthless non-elites that are just fluff
surreal nova
the first room with the templar dude?
balmy condor
yes
surreal nova
hm
prolly faster ye, but then again... its all about how they have the trash in the new dungeons
balmy condor
multi-dot classes are really awkward in this design space
outer lotus
And you wont make your comp because it does the 2 non elite pulls that have no mechanics slightly faster
balmy condor
well the question is, does it enable pulls that normally you wouldn't be able to do
surreal nova
it certainly does i guess
balmy condor
if you can pull 3 packs together where as normally you would need to do them 1 at a time
that's huge
surreal nova
but in the end its a risk/reward thing, yes? will you get a faster clear out of doing such a pull. if thats not the case nobody will care
and it wont be a "problem"
outer lotus
Idk i dont think putting CT on a couple more mobs enables pulls outside of low HP non elites
surreal nova
its not just CT. dotlocks andd meltfacepriests in particular come to mind
ember viper
I mean been able to do that is the whole argument against target caps right? thats the bfa meta. CT also isnt exactly the sickest of dots, pretty sure other multidotters would do that better
balmy condor
halls of valor, you pulled like the ENTIRE dungeon at once
and you just kited it back
and the aff locks melted face
cause they just doted everything
surreal nova
generally id say: as long as you survive it its prolly worth a shot
outer lotus
I hope they also target cap the 1 gcd to dot everything like seed on affli
If they arent capped already
balmy condor
the only thing a target cap does there, is make the ramp time longer right
so if we don't see caps on the DEBUFFS themselves
then I think dot-everything
is going to just power through
being able to pull the entire beach in 1 pull on tol dagor
is a HUGE time save
surreal nova
dots per global is the new meta then ^^
balmy condor
that's part of the reason why tol dagor is one of the easier keys
cause you get a ton of percent from that one pull
super super quick
low girder
bolstering is also going to suck ass on anything that is capped
unless you play real slow
in the non-dot cases
ember viper
Honestly i think this actually really hurts sin in m+. Sub already looked great for the new Pride affix and Outlaw still has better control. Wouldnt be shocked if the meta is double caster + outlaw/sub rogue
surreal nova
affixes be affixes. theres always an affix that sucks more or less than another
low girder
on high keys, sure
balmy condor
I mean capping is worse than uncapping
so obviously it hurts sin
but the question is does it actually change much in terms of the big picture multi-dot everything universe that I'm invisioning
and I think the answer is no
I think you'll see aff locks and shadow priests and sin rogues just dot spreading
just like you did in legion
and hell, maybe I'm wrong
I hope I'm wrong honestly
outer lotus
Gotta see how many opportunities to pull significantly more than 5-8 mobs there really are
balmy condor
yeah
outer lotus
Cuz if you cant do that anyways target cap dont matter
balmy condor
I think target capping isn't the correct solution
surreal nova
asss i mentioned before: if you survive it its probably worth it. depends on the abilitys of the mobs. first pull TD is often deadly for melee, but easy for ranged
i need a new keyboard
and in legion you could kite without end cuss the mobs didnt do shit when you outranged them
low girder
i don't think you really need much of a solution at all, if you want people to stop mass pulling, make them do higher keys
i don't think anyone should care if you're mass pulling an 18
in the MDI cases, i mean
balmy condor
well MDI isn't high keys
low girder
not to the same extent though
balmy condor
you create a time trial environment with X encounters to get through
the way you get faster is to make X encounters, X-2
you COULD do the beach in 4 pulls
but you do it in 1
surreal nova
i think the aoe cap is a poor bandage for the fact that certain specs were treated as bad picks, cus they're aoe sucked in comparison with other specs/classes. and then they simply wouldnt get a spot in random m+
balmy condor
you COULD do the first couple pulls of shrine in like 8 pulls, but you do it in 2 and snap all that shit
cause its faster, cause you do more in less time
and that's not something you change by just saying "go higher"
low girder
you do if you make the mobs actually dangerous
balmy condor
mobs are plenty dangerous in a 30
low girder
which they tried to do in bfa vs legion ones
i mean things to interrupt, etc
there are mobs in current dungeons vs legion that combo together harder
balmy condor
sure
surreal nova
but how fun wwoulddd it be to focus 90% on cc
low girder
it's not, but neither is capping
surreal nova
true
low girder
it's a vision they have, and i feel like aoe capping is the worst solution to their "issue"
surreal nova
itll feel weird at first, but youll get used to it quickly imo
low girder
because option #3 is more class homogenization
which is what i think they're trying to avoid
balmy condor
I agree with that
surreal nova
im much more concerned by that post from Parayah about feedback... ill cross the aoe cap bridge once im there. but yeah, dotters might be in a for a rollercoaster
low girder
i think i'd rather go with that over the other two but i realize i'm in the minority there lol
balmy condor
honestly, I think they should just let the mass pulls happen rather than create janky solutions to problems they think exist
main rewards cap at +15 anyway
surreal nova
dont get me wrong, im not a supporter of the cap, but i get what they're trying to achieve
balmy condor
anything higher than that and you're doing it for the fame and fun
if you're a CE raider who hates m+, you spam 15's all day for corruptions at the start of 8.3
and you might be super min-maxy and get one key in at like a 25 for the residuum
surreal nova
pretty sure its about random andy not getting into a grp because everyboddy wants the "optimal" comp for his random grp.
balmy condor
that will exist regardless
surreal nova
yes
low girder
it is, it's the same reasoning as covenants, i get what they're trying to do
but it won't work
balmy condor
yeah
low girder
and just creates extra problems
balmy condor
blizz fixes problems that don't necessarily exist and create more problems in the process
that's basically blizz design for the last 5 years
surreal nova
it kinda reminds me of when they took gear swapping out. not the same thing, but they triedd to banddage smth andd just made it worse. at least in my opinion
main blaze
slaughter seems a little lackluster
strange python
Whats sin rouge like in beta any changes in gameplay since corruption is gone
strange python
Nice, rouges are always strong anyway in all the previous expansion
balmy condor
I mean, they’ve been okay
But strong is a very vague word
And I think we can argue that rogues aren’t all that strong atm
But yes
Rogue is very fun :)
strange python
Yeah true
surreal nova
i played shaman for 15issh years, and when it became clear that m+ is going to stay, i switched to rogue. not just because the dmg of one of the 3 specs iss always good or better, but mostly because of the tool kit
cc, defs, utility... rogue is just nice.
dusky oxide
Hey lads, Are the mechagon bracers considered good in arena?
dusky oxide
oh woops. ill head over there thanks. (the bracers that have an on use damage)
strange python
So rings from Mechagon should be with haste proc?
balmy condor
For raid, you want behind/haste
strange python
I got stupid one with absorb. 
But it's 400+ haste.
Welp. Gonna run couple more times tonight and hopefully cara.
surreal nova
just farm it, unless you're incredible unlucky you should get it quickly. ppl can usually trade it these days as well
strange python
Ya I feel it. Welp I got Vita for second run hopefully this one give up soon.
Still the amount of haste is good on even this ring cz I got garbage haste/versa 5 ilvl higher.
surreal nova
the proc has basically an uptime of 100% since dots are considered "from behind"
dry iron
hey I have a quick question regarding corruptions; if i stack the versatility corruption on all of my gear instead of expedient in order to push mythic keys, will i still be able to raid in mythic?
i would make 2 sets of gear but since i started recently i don't think i'll have time to get 2 full corruption sets before shadowlands
patent topaz
well you can raid mythic just your damage will be low
surreal nova
you should prolly ask your raidlead/officerss about that
patent topaz
why would you stack vers corruptions for m+ though
dry iron
I checked the top m+ sin rogues and they're all stacking versat
maybe thats just for super super high keys tho
if haste is fine for 15s ill probably just stick with that instead
dry iron
this is where i found their gear
maybe it's their pvp gear? im a bit lost lol
lots of them are stacking crit too
patent topaz
I see severe/strikethrough on all but one that I checked
arctic walrus
You’re not pushing keys and trying to time 28s
full jungle
Vers stacking is for high keys to motigate dmg to not get 1shot
patent topaz
if you want to raid just stick to haste
dry iron
@full jungle yeah thats what i figured
arctic walrus
Vers is only used for required Survivability
If you’re doing 15s it’s fine running either Crit or haste
patent topaz
even those assa rogues you linked dont do 28+ where its needed more
full jungle
I personally dont run assa in m+ but i think atrikethrough/crit is better as grizzled said
surreal nova
you can easily do +20 with haste gear. its not perfect but it works
surreal nova
if you wanna max go crit. easily better
but as i said, +20ish (+/-) is totally fine with haste
dry iron
and is crit going to hold up in raids?
patent topaz
not really
surreal nova
the thing is
patent topaz
id say go haste
surreal nova
m+ is aa lot of multitarget. you dont need haste for that
patent topaz
15s are easy as fuck especially with mythic gear
surreal nova
in raids however you need the haste so you dont run out of energy
dry iron
yeah i plan on pushing raid content much more than mythic+ so Ill go with haste
thanks a ton for the help guys
quartz creek
do i hold vendetta for my 2nd vanish in rotation?
fallow otter
Yes
surreal nova
yes, unlesss the boss dies before that
tropic ocean
m+ is aa lot of multitarget. you dont need haste for that
@surreal nova
This is non accurate information on how you gear for m+
main adder
I need some help, I feel like my rotation must be stupid or something, cos I feel like I should be doing MUCH better dps in raid than I am 😦 Any help is appreciated.
tropic ocean
Post logs
rose sapphire
@main adder can u send logs
tropic ocean
If possible
limber dagger
Is it possible to bind the default stealth button to a key? 🤔
drifting cloud
yes
main adder
I bind stealth to Shift F, vanish to Shift G
drifting cloud
special action button 1
fallow otter
You can put stealth on a bar also then bind like usual
limber dagger
You can put stealth on a bar also then bins like usual
@fallow otter I know but was curios about the default one 🙂
special action button 1
@drifting cloud Thanks!
surreal nova
@tropic ocean im by no means an expert, i just tried to explain why haste is less important in m+
fallow otter
I need to do more research because I ran out of time but using my str/sev outlaw set with exp3 on daggers wasnt worth switching to from full haste raid build
Pretty much the same aoe dmg but ST raid obv schools it
tropic ocean
@tropic ocean im by no means an expert, i just tried to explain why haste is less important in m+
@surreal nova
Its not u either go full haste or full crit
Depending on key, group, affix
fallow otter
I need to do more sims of 6+ targets though
tropic ocean
But unless very high keys play whatever
Probably haste due to easier gearinf
Gearing*
surreal nova
thats also basically wwhat i said. you can easily do +20 in full haste gear
fallow otter
If you are 5k io you can start giving a shit about vers gear
@surreal nova yeh this is true but my point is that it might actually be better to use haste with some of my testing
tropic ocean
Not even 20s
surreal nova
fair enough
fallow otter
Depends on the key though
tropic ocean
24,25 super fine too
fallow otter
And pulls
main adder
Did you guys get the logs I posted? Thanks
tropic ocean
Think the only time i played crit in last push was tol dagor for first pull then went out and ran raid build again
surreal nova
hmk. ill adjust further recommendations then ^^
fallow otter
I can run sin for more dungeons but our group usually needs the extra interrupt
surreal nova
looking forward to gauge in all specs in SL
tropic ocean
I can run sin for more dungeons but our group usually needs the extra interrupt
@fallow otter
Also supports chaining/general cc better due to vanish freedom
fallow otter
@tropic ocean yep very true
main adder
so watcha think?
Asked for help, was told to post logs, but then no one ever got back to me
fallow otter
On phone mate, lots of us are but we get there depends on how busy work is aswell
Can you do your sim dps on dog boss?
Or xanesh if you don't soccer
surreal nova
do you have any other azerite head piece?
fallow otter
@main adder
surreal nova
oh and you need to work on your opener. for starters, at least try to cast garrotte twice before subterfuge runs out
try garrote - rupture - garrote
main forge
rupture and garrote fall off. and you overwrite your garrote... not sure how accurate that is
surreal nova
you could take a look at the ravenholdt guide in the pins, short and simple advice that covers pretty much everything
but yeah, dont let your bleeds fall off and dont overwrite your empowered bleeds
main adder
ya thats what i normally do, but the other rogue was doing better GG R so i tried that for a bit
as for other helms
I have a 480 [Circlet of the Enveloping Leviathan]
480 [Paramount Gearspun Goggles]
480 [Flashpowder Hood] i use for M+
the goggles i use for pvp
main forge
You also died on shad'har, which is missing probably almost 45 seconds of dps on a 3:30 kill
fallow otter
Do you have raden helm? Heroic
main adder
I think i had it at one time, but i sewrver trabnsfered so I cant even restore it I dont think
fallow otter
What is your current opener? Zooming in on my phone is being shit
fallow otter
Outside of pressing Tb on cd and maintaining dots your burst window is the other area obv
main forge
He does a double garrote on shad'har due to only having 2x SS
surreal nova
i only ssee one garrote cast tho
main forge
on shad'har he does two garrotes
surreal nova
fallow otter
Are you overwriting empowered gars?
main forge
oh derp no... just one garrote. looking at the silence effect
surreal nova
^^
main forge
Yeah, the wowanalyzer shows overwriting empowered... and having an uptime closer to 80%
surreal nova
do ddouble g at the start, and once again with every vanish (let it completely run out th)
fallow otter
And can you switch out SS and just commit to DD?
Post us a topgear sim, I think it's best to start there
main adder
ok
surreal nova
pretty sure he has enough haste to run 3x shrouded
main adder
i definitely do
fallow otter
So why are we Tb?
main forge
Thats not where he is losing DPS
vanish and 1 single garrote
and overwriting empowered garrotes
fallow otter
Yeah... But if we going to change his rotation we might aswell get the best build first
main forge
true
main adder
ok 1 sec posting a top gear sim
surreal nova
didnt look at much tbh after i saw the 1 garrote thing in the opener. he should start optimizing that, the rest is basically repeating it
fallow otter
No use fixing something that isn't the best
main forge
I recommend getting a weakaura to track uptimes
main adder
ok
surreal nova
also, CT might be better than PB with that gear tbh
patent topaz
it wont be
main adder
noit sure how to use CT
patent topaz
because of ttk
main forge
same as other bleeds, whenever it falls off.
might be easier to get used to doing the other important things first before adding in CT imo
fallow otter
Yup what grizz said
main adder
because i dont have the third SS
patent topaz
nothing to do with SS
surreal nova
fair enough @main forge
main adder
but the TTK I have is where the SS would have been in my hood
wind totem
Echoing Blades says the effect is for the first 5 critical strikes. Is this for the current combat only? Also if I crit 5 mobs with my FoK does that count as 1 or 5 crits?
fallow otter
5 crits proc EB Per fok
main adder
so you think i should run heroic ra-den and try to get the 465 hood for now?
we just gfot our first mythic ra-den kill this week, sadly no hood
wind totem
I'm sorry Stunkei but I didn't understand you.
fallow otter
You press FoK, it aoes and hits all the mobs around you, the first 5 times that crits it will proc eb
surreal nova
above all else try to work on your rotation. the dmg you do, or should do, in your vendetta/vanish window is substantial
main adder
ok
main forge
unless you are being benched, the helmet isn't what is holding back your dps. its your rotation
main adder
ok
main forge
garrote rupture garrote get used to that and do it after vanish too
main adder
ok
surreal nova
and let the empowered bleedds run out
fallow otter
Yeh gear is fine but switch to exang and then check the pins for rotation tips
And opener
wind totem
So If i crit 5 times with my first FoK it will proc 5 EB? Is that correct?
fallow otter
Yeh
main adder
thanks all
surreal nova
gl and hf :>
wind totem
Alright cool. What about my other question. Do those first 5 times reset on leaving combat?
fallow otter
So the simple way is, you FoK it hits 5mobs they all crit it does 5eb
Alright cool. What about my other question. Do those first 5 times reset on leaving combat?
@wind totem no it's per fok
fallow otter
So you can just spam
wind totem
that so much better than i thought holy shit
fallow otter
M+ AoE Openers
With Crimson Tempest talented
G1 G2 G3 CT FoK R1 BotE 5xFoK
Without Crimson Tempest
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK
wind totem
I'm still running beam for m+ as a major since I only have rank 2 BotE. Would it better to go BotE major and choose another minor? If so which one would be good? I'm currently running memory rank 2, breath rank 3 and BotE rank 2. I know I can sim but sims aren't all that great for m+ hence why I'm asking for an opinion.
fallow otter
Sim would be my answer, I don't know rank2 value
main forge
Grind those essences. But at that point, its probably feel-crafty.
beam likely does more damage on bigger pulls. but is crap single target
patent topaz
Never use bote2
harsh sphinx
i actually got an opener for you @normal olive didn't step xanesh
surreal nova
bote3 is crit ddmg increase, isnt it?
harsh sphinx
wind totem
I don't really do high keys. I do 17-19 usually so I think beam is still good.
umbral rapids
fallow otter
Bote and EB FoK is the best shit ever though
wind totem
I know but I hate pvp and cba to grind rank 3
fallow otter
Actually bonkers
surreal nova
you got to rank 2, cant be that much away from rank 3
and its just random bgs. make some tea, watch a series, chill and enjoy the power you get once you're done
surreal nova
:/
pastel hatch
If only they didn't skip comp stomp this week haha
warm olive
Sim is telling me to use formless void instead of lucid dreams for a 780 dps increase. is it worth it with that kind of increase? im wondering because there seems to be a certain randomness in formless void and im not sure how it is simmed.
harsh sphinx
you can check the uptime on logs when you try it out
vivid hawk
@wind totem it's REALLY worth it. I hated pvp too but once I got BoTE. WoW. Huge increase
harsh sphinx
shad for example. kinda depends on your raid
vivid hawk
Once you're in just move every so often and watch a Netflix series.
dull crypt
feelsbad they removed comp stomp, was the only free way to r3 bote
@kenzo you can also ask if your tanks are running crucible, will give a big boost to your formless void uptime
warm olive
ok, i will try it out next time
one more question: is there an addon that estimates the remaining boss fight based on current raid dps?
obviously wont work with phases etc, but i just want a good estimate for the last quarter or so, because of CDs, BotE before vanish is UP for example
boss fight time*
dull crypt
can't you look at previous boss kills in logs and assume your next kill is maybe 5 seconds faster
until you start skipping intermissions
warm olive
im not in a raid guild, lot of pugging and dont have any reliable time to look for. still like to min max
dull crypt
I don't know about any addons that do that
warm olive
ok thanks
vivid hawk
@warm olive
I found this
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/death-clock
Have not tested it but from the description it sounds like its what youre looking for
warm olive
Thanks i will try it tonight
scarlet sequoia
np
quasi hill
Heya - in higher m+ keys (27+) outlaw is more a utility class to support the mage. Is assa more of a damage dealer or not playable in those high keys?
quasi hill
Yes that's true, so no one can compete in those keys damage wise with a mage
vast forum
outlaw is FAR more tanky as well
warm olive
death clock doesnt seen to work/wasnt updated, lua erroring all the time, unfortunately
warm olive
Ok Great
swift timber
I would probably go with this one in particular but I haven't tried any of them https://wago.io/TimeToDie
outer lotus
it has me convinced
strange python
grave marsh
do we still want exp3x7 exp2x1 and a honed mind 3?
scarlet sequoia
sim yourself sir
wet ruin
cuz its 15 ilvl higher and it has a socket?
vast forum
socket is like 500 dps alone
young dust
did you guys see the reckful NPC in shadowlands
strange python
I am patrick
young dust
why does my humming sim so much higher than vita
@carmine latch I still think you should run vita for benefiting your group overall
stack vitas in groups with rogues/locks/warriors
carmine latch
Ya got a poin there
outer lotus
is there a ressource for CD usage on nzoth and cara? logs are weird
dire spoke
well it depends, our psychus 1 is so fast my 2min CDs from pull arent ready until nzoth is vuln
so it's kinda fucky
crimson palm
00 2:30 5:30 7:30 10:30 is general nzoth
outer lotus
how do you even get value out of your first vendetta though?
the basher dies in like 4 seconds
crimson palm
depending on kill times there's a potential to minmax
dire spoke
I'm alone on the second spawn eye
outer lotus
ooh true i could just solo nuke an eye
lean marten
u can pop on pull and still use again either psychus kill in grp1 or nzoth phase right after
dire spoke
but as I said psy1 is too fast my exsa doesn't even tick through first nzoth vulnerable phase
outer lotus
so i basically use it on pull and afterwards just on CD as soon as i can hit nzoth?
lean marten
yea
u will end up holding it for like 20s
before 2nd set of cds
like hemo said on timing
0:00 , 2:30
crimson palm
if u wanna parse the best way is to just use it on cd
dire spoke
When you do it like me its 40 2:40
outer lotus
can i do like a "small opener" on the first basher?
lean marten
if u need to sink dmg into psychus i vanish between 7-8 synapse and dots typically fall off seconds before he dies
outer lotus
like just garrote garrote vend exsang blood?
lean marten
im psychus grp1
crimson palm
if your psychus is late enough into the 2:30s
you can vendetta second basher
but it has to be your first gcd in subt
and vanish right after the torment around 0:29
dire spoke
yeah it's kinda too late on second eye I think I just might do fucking nothing the first 2:30
-,-
crimson palm
well we kill psychus in 2:20
so cant do that
but you'll get more dmg out if you can do it
outer lotus
we have buyers so i think we arent that fast
outer lotus
let me check my logs
dire spoke
outer lotus
our psychus died at 2:40 last kill
dire spoke
yeah could work to rape an eye
lean marten
if u enter portal late slows it no?
crimson palm
im not sure
dire spoke
ehh?
crimson palm
doesnt it just keep going
outer lotus
so i dont vend on opener and vanish + vend on the eye of the 2nd set of adds that spawn with that timer right?
lean marten
but its up for like 5s, and if no1 goes till the end part, seems like phase doesn't start till first person goes in
not sure tho
dire spoke
oh that's what you mean
outer lotus
what gap?
lean marten
yeah its a pretty scripted fight but theres some wiggle room on a few things
outer lotus
yea urs looks basically like ours
so just to make sure: i hold it on opener, CDs on eyeball of first set of adds and after that all on nzoth whenever i can
so that would be like 0:20, 2:45 and whatever after
dire spoke
trial and error i guess
outer lotus
ye its kinda fucked when you skip progress and get into a group that has it all figured out already
lean marten
if ur squad is struggling with the corruptor eye before portal i suppose that works
outer lotus
i get like 1 pull every week and have no room to experiment
outer lotus
i mean i wouldnt use it on the eye because its a problem but because it lives slightly longer than the 5 seconds the first basher lives
and if CDs come up in secret phase you save for nzoth right?
outer lotus
thanks guys!
dire spoke
I'm sure there is a better way to get more out of the fight, we're just there for recruitment and never really do speedkill parse shit
outer lotus
ye i dont wanna cheese a good log i just played sin first time on nzoth last week and the CD useage weas really awkward for me
dire spoke
except you can skip shit to not deal longer than needed with some encounter, like on raden or cara
that's when we force some stuff
we just casual normies
8D
outer lotus
oh on raden, ive seen people save vanish to put garrote on the first 2 adds instead of using it immediately after the first emp garr runs out
is that a good idea or bad?
outer lotus
so basically if i only get 2 vendettas i can do it
dire spoke
I tried doing that but then I forget to check when it's my turn to get debuff and end up using it too late anyways
outer lotus
ra-den is like 2:50 minutes for us
outer lotus
ye wouldnt get a full vendetta at 2:40. thanks
outer lotus
same
dire spoke
so it can go 2:50
outer lotus
healers think its funny to holy shock kill people
dire spoke
outer lotus
oh i think we have like 4 buyers on raden today
outer lotus
so maybe we will take longer
outer lotus
oh any of you got the WA to make my paranoia partner glow on nzoth? i got the first one i found on wago but it makes the raidframeblack and bug out
dire spoke
oh hmm
dire spoke
maybe
Its nice just click and spam shstep
and then have your pepegamages dh warr replace to your original position
dark crag
Press your 2nd step, oh wait
dire spoke
young dust
oh on raden, ive seen people save vanish to put garrote on the first 2 adds instead of using it immediately after the first emp garr runs out
@outer lotus our ra-den was 3:30 and it was very worth it
but i popped BOTE right away with exsang
i was wondering if it was worth saving BOTE as well but probably not
outer lotus
ye if that means you vanish at 0:40 that means your fight should be atleast like 3:05 minutes long i guess
so you can get a whole vanish and vendetta in at 2:40
outer lotus
looks like you didnt get a 2nd set of CDs in the end though right?
dire spoke
Looks Like a fucked up midfight burst
young dust
i did get another vanish on 2:35 and a vendetta on 2:05 which i didnt align because i was nervous though, twas our first kill
outer lotus
ah. ye gotta be confident with kill times i guess
balmy condor
Yeah looks like desynced CDs
outer lotus
kinda crazy that vanish + garrote on 3 targets is more dps than big dick opener on 1 target
patent topaz
dont get me started on fucking raden
dire spoke
sudden yew
do you guys think it's worth it to use kick on a boss to proc more mind flays (playing the mindflay single target build)
balmy condor
I’ll get you started on fucking raden
outer lotus
it doesnt do that vile
balmy condor
That’s not how mind flay works
patent topaz
and I got assassinated by healers on 1st debuff
young dust
kinda crazy that vanish + garrote on 3 targets is more dps than big dick opener on 1 target
@outer lotus yah welcome to shrouded suffocation where garrote seems to be our finisher
proud horizon
Is there a resource for enchants/gems
patent topaz
AGANE
balmy condor
If it were, you would detection spam
outer lotus
well detection is on the GCD
sudden yew
i thought it worked like essences
balmy condor
Yeah you can top gear chants/gems
proud horizon
o.O
outer lotus
essences also dont work like that
sudden yew
oh well shit i thought mages used cc in opener
proud horizon
No I mean I need to see their names lol
sudden yew
i mean cs*
outer lotus
lucid has a chance to proc whenever you spent mana for them
counterspell costs mana
and is off gcd
dire spoke
Rings are Accord of XXX where x is the stats name
proud horizon
Ty 🙏🏽
dire spoke
💩
final harbor
What bosses should I use CWH over Gorak Tul's Mantle
dire spoke
@proud horizon but really you can Look into raidbots after your topgear input there are tooltips for everything
final harbor
is it worth running two CWH
balmy condor
Yes
final harbor
to which question
balmy condor
Double CWH is bis for short fights
patent topaz
double cwh below 3 mins id say
final harbor
ok ty 🙂
patent topaz
if you cant get 2 sets of cds
patent topaz
without vop minor
outer lotus
do you have to micro manage for the proc or does it automatically line up?
dire spoke
You cant
balmy condor
It lines up on opener ;)
patent topaz
there is no 5 min fight except for cara and nzoth
and I wouldnt use it for either
and I also cba
dire spoke
@outer lotus you can throw a knife at a critter and it procs
balmy condor
Yeah I guess cara chest does outsim
outer lotus
why would i do that? 
balmy condor
You wouldn’t change CDs for it I’m pretty sure
patent topaz
if you check the russian guide in pins it has clockwork logs
balmy condor
Ye
outer lotus
like your 2nd vendetta is at like 2:15 right? so that would be outside of CWH
proud horizon
@proud horizon but really you can Look into raidbots after your topgear input there are tooltips for everything
@dire spoke will do, thanks
desert canyon
What corruption is better for pvp if i would only change a few gear pieces of my crit build. Mind flay or gushing wounds? 🤔
strange python
gushing
desert canyon
Someone told me mind flay works better with crit and gushing is good with haste. But tentacle can also be killed. Is that the reason gushing is better?
balmy condor
gushing is a lot less rng as well
arctic walrus
less corruption, almost guaranteed damage, procs more often
dire spoke
its a good filler
balmy condor
you're a good filler
proud horizon
It’s okay, I wasn’t putting in enough effort
proud horizon
🤷🏻♀️ I am what I am
strange python
Can someone help me look through my logs and help me see something i might be overseeing? Trying to minmax
balmy condor
we don't do that here
strange python
Fml
balmy condor
shur
dire spoke
lol
crude raft
Hi guys, is till shadowmeld garrote with subterfuge a thing?
balmy condor
shadowmeld gives SS, not subterfuge
in m+ you can meld into stealth
and get subterfuge that way
crude raft
what's SS? (sorry, returning boomer, don't remember half of the acronyms)
balmy condor
haste
in pvp, you take haste to 20% and then verse/crit I think
#pvp would know better
in pve, you just stack haste for gushing
tulip star
ah okay then it appears i have made a slight miscalculation
balmy condor
you don't want more than like 1-2 gushing in pve anyway
but expansions over anyway, no big loss
strong wigeon
any clue on builds on beta?
balmy condor
bone spike
silent crescent
Might change due to conduits though, bone spike got like a 10% increase on dps for its dot right? While all the others doubled in dmg?
balmy condor
he asked for a clue
I gave him a clue
what happens in 2 months time is anyone's guess
strong wigeon
lol i meant talents
strong wigeon
so my current exang build with alacrity?
balmy condor
well, you wouldn't have exsang with alacrity would you
but generally speaking, haste still good, and you're running TB cause it's baseline
strong wigeon
yea but shiv tooltip is showing nothinjg beneficial, asking for the raid test tonight
candid token
So I'm running the Bleed Build, and my haste is at 88% My Simcity is recommending me to put replace a few Haste Gems with Mastery Gems.. is this worth doing? My Crit is 31% and Mastery 39%
sand whale
simcity ay
balmy condor
yes
candid token
Arrighty, thanks ^-^
dire spoke
^-^
lapis vapor
Hey there folks, starting to gear up an Assass rogue - there are a lot of conflicting guides on whether to stack Haste or Gushing wound for both pvp/pve. Any here able to give me a hand or link me something? Thanks in advance.
balmy condor
pins
gushing wounds is haste but worse :)
having 1 gushing is good on a 475/485 piece if you have exped though
lapis vapor
Ahh, interesting. So you'd advise going for the full Exped in general? PvP or PvE / Happy inbetween?
balmy condor
happy in-between is decent enough
full exped is good raid, decent m+, bad pvp
full crit is good m+, decent raid, decent pvp
full GW is good pvp, decent raid, and bad m+
as a general rule
lapis vapor
That's very useful, cheers for that. I'm only getting the weekly 15 key on this toon tbf this late on. Tempted to try the GW Over Exped for an easier life.
I assume the full Crit is with the Crit Corruptions? Not even heard of that settup in the guides.
balmy condor
severe/strike with EB in m+
severe/strike also for tendie cheese in raid
but
if you're tendie cheesing
the severe/strike is filler right
something like this
with 1 severe 3
lapis vapor
Ahh roger, fair one.
brazen beacon
river hearth
Can someone help answer two questions... First, with and without echoing blades when do we use fan of knives 3+ and 2+?
river hearth
Ok that's what I figured.
balmy condor
If you have vendetta on a target, add +1 to all of those
river hearth
Thanks for answering.
balmy condor
Np
river hearth
Also, when does crimson tempest become the AOE play over poison bomb? I see general statements about high haste and when it becomes part of the single target rotation. But I'm wondering when it's worth grabbing over poison bomb.
balmy condor
Yes
In m+ you run CT unless you’re using a TTK trait, or you’re running something like workshop where the boss damage/single target is huge
outer lotus
am i just imagining things or does CT miss a lot on bosses for some reason
or whiff or idk
like i use it and it just doesnt apply
crimson palm
It can be parried
outer lotus
well but so can everything else right
or can it also be parried from the back or something?
balmy condor
yeah I was testing it on skitra on tuesday
casted like 8 or 9 on the skitra clones from different positions
none of them stuck
devout fiber
astral leaf
weary current
Does Sepsis cast our 'regular' vanish? As in use the cd if its available?
balmy condor
no
weary current
Oh okay I was kinda confused by the wowhead article about rogue changes
sudden yew
any uses for World veins ?
hybrid harness
Do you guys find that you actually have to keep track of elaborate planning that much? Im doing my UI and its getting quite bloated so Im considering what to remove on weakaura side.
its an alt atm so I dont even have that picked cos I mostly do world pvp with it but its a heavy SL main candidate.
hybrid harness
I see, I noticed a few people were tracking it so I figured it may be a minmax thing but wasnt sure.
tropic ocean
Uptime is naturally great
For minor improvement can clip but shouldnt be necessary with barely dead gcds anymore
hybrid harness
Thanks chaps
balmy condor
@sudden yew its not a bad major essence if you don't have the BiS rank 3's
also good if you have other people running it
but usually there's better options
uncut cape
assa sooo good on beta ❤️ ....
rigid eagle
did i hear someone say worldvein major
balmy condor
rigid eagle
real talk tho, for maut and shad meter farming WV + gcb is pretty nice
uncut cape
who cares about maut?
rigid eagle
hey, it's a pretty patchwerk fight
mindlessly pumping dmg on those encounters will always be fun xD
rigid eagle
wait rly?
uncut cape
so WV is dead
rigid eagle
yikes man...
lean marten
WV is prolly trolling u becuase u have 3+ allies
uncut cape
sim yourself if WV ist best 4 you, use it. if you have "low" gear its not bad
balmy condor
rigid eagle
lol whispyr has seen my sims way too many times
uncut cape
i wish blizzard would say: We know (assa) rouge is bad (in beta) we will fix it, dont wanna play a 0 dps class
uncut cape
copyed my char yesterday, Autoattack #1. WP Blizzard
uncut cape
its still beta yes, but mythic tests are starting and you cant play assa... i think this is a problem, dont know if Sub or outlol are good
shy dust
Why can’t you play assassination
cinder ferry
I kind of have a long winded question but any help would be appreciated, to start I want to get into the exsang build but I also enjoy some PvP. I'm looking to stock up on expedient 3's next week and I have 35k echos. I already have one Expedient 3 and will hopefully have 62 corruption resistance by the end of the week. Would getting only getting like 3 more expedients next week make me vialbe for the exsang build which would allow me to get 1 or 2 GW's this week for PvP?
strange python
Anyone else not looking forward to juggling slice and dice along with rupture and envenom?
void pecan
sim yourself adding 3 expedient or whatever, see if it's an upgrade over DD or whatever you're running
thin gate
guys 1 question, does Nothing Personal ( Vendetta ) have a snapshot mechanic?
strange python
I just can’t see that being very fun
balmy condor
no snapshot on NP
arctic walrus
it's your choice we literally can't answer that question for you. Are you willing to farm out echoes by the time expedient comes back next week if you need to fill out your set? or just buy your gushing this week. Whichever you play more get the corruption for that,
uncut cape
4 finischer is a lot, jes
balmy condor
exsang subt nightstalker
arctic walrus
The spec was fine for expansions with all 3, you'll survive
strange python
the duration better not last only a few seconds like in classic
uncut cape
46sec with 6 CP i think
strange python
so what is it with 5?
uncut cape
39 i think
strange python
oh ok
uncut cape
i cant log in right now
uncut cape
36 5 CP, 42 6CP
strange python
not too bad i guess
strange python
then again i'm not an expert so i can't say anything
uncut cape
you will do 0 dmg 4 like 30 sec 😄 untill Dots and buffs are up 😄
void pecan
but now everyone has your poisons
uncut cape
right now Autoattacks are #1 dmg, its so funny and sad
strange python
from what i've heard sub and outlaw has instant instead of deadly
i wouldn't know since i'm not on the beta lol
uncut cape
but not at 50
uncut cape
im 481 GS on live, and its hard 2 kill 3 Mobs on Beta, because you do 0 dmg
royal lantern
maybe
thats because
your gear is starting too get outscaled, wich is a normal part of a new expansion @uncut cape ?
strange python
as outlaw is playable in raids right now on live, assa will be playable in sl
uncut cape
okey but how do you level without 480 gs?
strange python
dont worry
royal lantern
+its frking lvl 50 lol
rogue is always painfull during lvling
assassination even more cus its dmg overtime based
uncut cape
its bad last raidtest aswall Limits rouge was on P19/19 DPS
strange python
you dont level an affli lock by dotting 1 target up and waiting until its dead
same for assa
royal lantern
remember bfa launch where pulling 3enemys meant using evasion+vial+cloak on a fresh lvl 120 assa?
stiff fern
looks like futures rogue is 2nd as sin atm
not really worth worrying about damage at this point
uncut cape
yeah its okey if youre fresh 120 and have 6% haste etc. but with 40% haste 30+ on krit and mastery, you should be able to kill 3 mobs
royal lantern
its beta, no tuning done yet
its rogue, a class that is well known for beeing 1 of the worst classes during the lvling phase
idk what you expect tbh
uncut cape
yes i know but i dont wanna change my main 1 month before addonstart...