assassination

[spice spire]

You can’t progress quests as a raid group

[balmy condor]

Convert to party

[spice spire]

Convert to normal group or leave party

Those are the only two ways

[devout fiber]

How to convert?

[devout fiber]

Thank you

[balmy condor]

Damn weak with the cropped screenshot and the highlighted option

Dudes poppin off

So clean

[normal olive]

[warm parcel]

except its convert to raid not party

happened to be in game cause tried looking for sht wa

[balmy condor]

Yeah

But you helped and it was concise and visual and it was super clean

And that makes me

[warm parcel]

Way easier to show than try and explain this menu

What is it even called

Right click your char menu?

[balmy condor]

Yeah right click your portrait

Usually how people call it

Or your frame

I’ve seen frame a lot

[warm parcel]

fair

[balmy condor]

But I agree

Disastrous menu

[normal olive]

The face drop down multiple choice right clicky area

[balmy condor]

Navi why do you talk

[normal olive]

I'm bored

playing holy priest

[balmy condor]

Understandable have nice day

[normal olive]

Oh Whispyr! Finally someone that might awnser my question

[balmy condor]

Oh no

[normal olive]

Mythic Raden

[balmy condor]

Uh goldfish drowning

[warm parcel]

no

[balmy condor]

Brb

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

What about mythic raden

[normal olive]

How exactly does the Nightmare add cast work that follows people? Randomly getting nuked

[crimson palm]

[fathom swift]

What dread inferno?

[crimson palm]

it works in a way that it follows people

[normal olive]

Like i'm standing at raden, 2 people in melee range get it and people get exploded

[balmy condor]

[warm parcel]

Just dont stand in it

[fathom swift]

Just dont stand in it ez

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean I hate to just 4head

And I wish I could tell you literally anything else

But they’re right lmao

[normal olive]

Is it really just don't stand on top of each other when it does the cast

[warm parcel]

It shouldnt instakill anyone

[crimson palm]

no, dont stand in it

[warm parcel]

Just move out quickly

[crimson palm]

the guy that has it needs to kite it out

[normal olive]

Well it didn't oneshot but still took a chunk of dmg i think is avoidable

[crimson palm]

or if there's someone you hate in your raid, you cloak and you start chasing him

[warm parcel]

If you have a lot of melee, theres gonna be some cleaving

But having chat bubbles on helps visually

[normal olive]

Does it spawn at the add, underneath the player that gets it or how does it work

[balmy condor]

Imagine melee heavy raids

[warm parcel]

It picks random players and spawns the inferno under them

Then it follows them

[balmy condor]

Under the player

Yeah

[normal olive]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VWzt2FYQ1BnN4CGa#fight=last&type=damage-done

[warm parcel]

thats a few melees yea

Wish you luck

[normal olive]

We had a melee swap to mage

he got pissed because he wanted the raden weapon

[crimson palm]

we killed ilgy no dispel with 9 melees

[balmy condor]

Aight weird flex

What is this, uldir yogg + 9 melee

[warm parcel]

We killed nozoth with no 4 mages

Beat that!

[crimson palm]

you've 4 mages by default?

[warm parcel]

No thats why we didnt have 4 mages on it

[normal olive]

Well i'm just try to not stand inside 5 people whenever the cast goes off

[crimson palm]

if we're lucky we get 1

but this means more pad dmg for me on thots

so all good

[warm parcel]

With that many melee its really a clusterfuck in the melee

[normal olive]

We had melees run to orbs because ranged dmg was missing

[warm parcel]

• chain going around and possibly instakilling people

We still run to the 2nd orb

Just cause why not

[crimson palm]

bigger problem is the nightmare cleave

[warm parcel]

Boss dps isnt that bad anymore

[normal olive]

I was running my ass off

[crimson palm]

not the add casts

[warm parcel]

The chain does more dmg the more times it forks

iirc

so with this many melee it does hurt

[normal olive]

I died because raidlead said to stop healing the people with debuff

i had 5% health

[warm parcel]

pot?

[crimson palm]

pot

[normal olive]

Allready used it

probably when i got nuked by melee nightmare stuff again c:

[devout fiber]

What reputation

is Nazmir

[balmy condor]

Talanji

[devout fiber]

ty

[brazen perch]

does any one know how haste actually affects td procs?

i know it scales with haste by to what degree?

[balmy condor]

It procs more

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[normal olive]

td goes brrr but with haste td goes brrrrrrrr

[balmy condor]

Idk the actual math behind it cause I can’t be asked

Cause fuck rng corrupts

[brazen perch]

fair enough

just wondering if someone actually did the math

[balmy condor]

I assume the rppm is just multiplied by haste

Seems very blizzard of them

[quiet radish]

Another question for everyone. With the corruption build setup for SS+ Exsangunate the recommended corruption will sit us at using max cloak resist currently putting us at 79 over does everyone play with that optimization in raiding?

[balmy condor]

It puts us at 59

We don’t run the HM3

[quiet radish]

we just use all haste then?

or lower tank HM

[balmy condor]

Yeah until we have the res

[quiet radish]

rank*

[balmy condor]

You can sim that for your character

Usually the exped

[quiet radish]

ok thanks i will go ahead and pick up both rank 2's tonight then instead of r3 HM

[crimson palm]

79 on all but nzoth

its playable on nzoth but requires too much managing if you wanna bother

[balmy condor]

79 if you trust in heals

I don’t trust in heals

[shut garnet]

60 kinda awkward anyway idk

[quiet radish]

This is currently what i'm at for all my stuff. If anybody has suggestions let me know https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o9apWkRfLjkryiKUNFXVpW

[balmy condor]

Quick sim

[shut garnet]

how likely is it for you to kill raden and carapace mythic @quiet radish

cuz the obvious upgrades would be ra-den helm, cara chest, cara boots and cara daggers with sockets n expedient3s

[quiet radish]

probably not going to happen anytime soon in my guild

we are just starting to push mythic this week

also @balmy condor if this helps u more https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bPFjDri6SW7Dh1pGRBjpsh but it does say u just get 2 exp rank 2 instead of r3 HM

[balmy condor]

Tyty friend

It’s looking pretty saucy

[umbral rapids]

No u

[balmy condor]

Double clock and heroic raden sims higher for me than that

The helm has never been good for me

Idk

[umbral rapids]

All those sockets

[slim pebble]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7uVh5yFFxzYUM5P3rjFhb5

[balmy condor]

Rank 2 bote

Oof

[slim pebble]

Im working on it (

[umbral rapids]

Vs R 4 above lol

[naive lynx]

that bully from Whyspir

yikes

[umbral rapids]

Whyspir

[naive lynx]

[shut garnet]

whaispyr big bully

[umbral rapids]

[slim pebble]

Just trying to squeeze some mroe out or is that impossible with ran k2

[balmy condor]

God I hate you guys

;-;

[quiet radish]

@balmy condor if your talking about my helm, i'm kinda stuck with what i got currently unless the vendor gets me fluid. the 465 gibbermaw sims lower for me and the mythic maut helm does as well

[balmy condor]

Unlucky

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/beuXsjjtghNQLViQUQNC4L

@slim pebble that’s without any additional containers

I’m on mobile so it’s jank

But you can use that and re-sim with containers if you want

[normal olive]

We love you Whisp

[balmy condor]

I love you too bb

[normal olive]

Outhealing a 482 holy pala as a 465 holy priest

[balmy condor]

And your fuked opener

[slim pebble]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iCLPVkWPRxkEf3x17Btdpr

[balmy condor]

There ya go

Poggers

101k

:)

This is what it looks like trying to sim containers on mobile btw

Mobile sims are awful

[lean marten]

🤮

[devout fiber]

@balmy condor Is there an azerite armour slot for each section

[balmy condor]

For each what?

I don’t understand the question sorry

[devout fiber]

I mean for each armour section

[balmy condor]

Head shoulder chest

[devout fiber]

Ah alright

[slim pebble]

Would I use worldvein at the same time that I would normally use BoTE?

[balmy condor]

Uh that’s a good question

You can do a quick sim

And then there’s an ability log at the bottom

That’ll show you how it does the opener

I assume it uses it before exsang

[slim pebble]

Just found it, I guess I do it before vendeta

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[crimson palm]

You use it before vendetta on cd

[opaque mauve]

anyone have a nice weak aura that tracks empowered bleeds ?

[balmy condor]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

Most of these do

[opaque mauve]

cool ty

i logged in to a complete UI reset and all weak auras gone 😦

[balmy condor]

No backup?

[opaque mauve]

nope 😦

[balmy condor]

Should probably start doing those :P

I put my wa’s and stuff up on wago

So if I ever crash I can I just pull them from there

No hard drive failure or anything can stop the power of the internet

[strange python]

does any1 have

wa

Infexious Rogue

from this dude

[balmy condor]

Infexious wa’s

[strange python]

not good?

[balmy condor]

Take my money

For the same thing as 25 other wa packs

[sullen pagoda]

i mean its personal preference but u can find much better with 2sec of wago.io search

[balmy condor]

Yeah

There’s nothing his wa’s do that a million others haven’t also done

[sullen pagoda]

when i was remaking my ui i just took afenar WA and modded them to my liking

[rocky holly]

am i just going nutty or is crimson tempest randomly not working on skitra

doesnt apply to the clones on heroic or mythic

[sullen pagoda]

works fine for me

[rocky holly]

sec let me try to find the log, maybe it was a WA and UI bug, but i would CT and it wouldnt pop up on the nameplate or pop up as a timer on my WA

[vital haven]

yes

[balmy condor]

CT can be parried

[lean marten]

CT has weird hitbox sometimes

with big models

[vital haven]

well either i got super unlucky

or there is some fucky thing going on with skitra adds

[balmy condor]

Worked fine for me on Tuesday

Idk maybe the patch yesterday fucked It up again

[rocky holly]

well it was last week before the patch too

and it couldn't possibly have been parried 5 times in a row

sec ive got the log

[balmy condor]

I mean it could’ve been parried 5 times in a row, there is a chance of that happening

But I agree it’s unlikely

[rocky holly]

lol

nice

anyways

[lean marten]

i thought mobs can't block/dodge/parry from behind

[balmy condor]

Correct

[mental trout]

Any one have a link to a vod or stream of the SL raid? Know they were streaming last night but can’t find em@uploaded

[rocky holly]

damage to clones:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rdxR9YjWmgA4V1Jc#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=16&target=46

cast timeline:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rdxR9YjWmgA4V1Jc#fight=1&type=casts&source=16&view=timeline

go to 30s to see CT being cast, no damage dealt, and then again at 87s

[rocky holly]

i'm sure you'll say it, but it was only 3 misses. still unlikely.

not sure what that screenshot means friendo

[balmy condor]

No crimson tempest here

[rocky holly]

44?

[balmy condor]

It says you’re casting mutilates

You said 30 yeah?

[rocky holly]

starting at 30 is when the phase starts lol

and clone dies at 52

[balmy condor]

Oh I see

[rocky holly]

it was happening in the last ~15 seconds of the boss fight too, on real skitra

CT cast, doesnt go up. and a big phat PARRIED would pop up if that were the case. unless my game is broken.

tried looking for a thread and nothing

[shut garnet]

i noticed that too yesterday actually

[balmy condor]

Yeah should say in the log too

Seems pretty fucked

[shut garnet]

CT just wouldnt stick to any skitra mirror adds

[balmy condor]

Idk adds are borked I guess

[rocky holly]

maybe skitra was making me hallucinate IRL. nutty mechanic blizz

[balmy condor]

Nah the logs definitely seem fucked

If the logs aren’t lying then adds are bugged

And I would say the adds seem bugged considering a couple other people had it happen too

[rocky holly]

thanks for the confirmation chieftain

[balmy condor]

Here to serve

[normal olive]

I think ever boss is bugged, i do no dmg

[balmy condor]

Needs more opener vanish

[normal olive]

Should i vanish before or after the first garrote

[shut garnet]

garrote vanish truly a powerplay

[balmy condor]

Vanish on pull so you can use it as soon as possible later in the fight

[normal olive]

Thanks i'll try it next time

[balmy condor]

I accidentally garrote vanished yesterday

It hurt

A lot

[normal olive]

You'll get the worst opener ever later

[stone gust]

So you want to basically do stealth opener wait for garrote to fall then do a vanish opener?

[balmy condor]

Yeah you do the opener

And when the exsang’d garrotes drop

You vanish gar

And then wait till everything lines up at around 2:20

[fleet anchor]

@crimson palm I assume for ranking purposes FoK in P3 probably isn't a gain since none of the damage counts.. it's more CP than Mutilate in that situation and logically we should use it, but probably using Mutilate would be better for the WCL filtering rules.

[stone gust]

Okay so then next opener get new vanish and vendetta

[balmy condor]

You only have 1 opener at the start

But yes, your cds line up again later

You hold everything for that second vanish

Opener, exsang, exsang, then the vanish/vendetta/exsang

[rigid eagle]

@balmy condor on a scale of 1 to 10 how much should it trust quick sim's opener rotation?

[balmy condor]

Uh depends on the jankiness of your build

But probably an 8

Maybe a 9

[rigid eagle]

it's telling me to garrote mut garrote with my first vanish after finisher LUL

[balmy condor]

Yeah

It doesn’t want to finish at 3

Makes sense

[vast forum]

it's completely fine to do that

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[rigid eagle]

can i afford to have garrote not up for one second

[vast forum]

i personally do g-g-finisher

[rigid eagle]

to mut b4 i vanish?

[vast forum]

i mean, you can afford it

but testing suggested it's a dps loss

cuz in lust + vend it's 1-2 massive ticks you're missing

[rigid eagle]

ahh i see

[balmy condor]

Mut vanish gar finish gar is fine
Vanish gar gar finish is fine
Vanish gar Mut gar is fine
Vanish gar finish gar is fine

These are super min-max things

[vast forum]

the difference between those 4 options

is like

GIGA small

[balmy condor]

It’s pretty minimal

Yeah actually tiny

[vast forum]

so do whatever you feel like doing, it's not gonna be a difference between a 95% parse and a 60% parse

[rigid eagle]

also the quick sim is leaning toward the opener where you exsang after CT, is that optional

[vast forum]

CT before exsang if your first mut puts you at 5cp

[balmy condor]

That’s what you do on 5cp after the vendetta mut

So the opener it’s showing probably had that happen

[vast forum]

if it's 6cp you rupture and exsang immediately

[balmy condor]

Yep

[shut garnet]

what if your 2nd double mut puts you at 5 as well

[balmy condor]

You mut again

[shut garnet]

wont having to mut to 6 and then rup exang fuck up dps

compared to just initially rupturing at 5cp

[balmy condor]

It’s been tested at a loss to 5cp

[shut garnet]

compared to g rup g vendetta mut ct mut mut mut rup exang bote?

[balmy condor]

On average, yes

[vast forum]

that's why you need 34% crit

[balmy condor]

You can’t foresee if you have to triple mutilate before you actually have to do it

Yoppa pls

[vast forum]

(it's a joke)

[balmy condor]

[shut garnet]

idk, niche scenario but say you proc cloak with ur first garrote

it'd be a massive loss to not exang bote and pop off in that cloak window surely

[vast forum]

i guess

[shut garnet]

even with a 5cp rup

[vast forum]

i mean, i'd rather mut again there

[wet ruin]

your cloak widnow is not 3 sec

[vast forum]

and have a 6cp rup

[balmy condor]

I think the feelycraft is strong atm

[shut garnet]

it's not 3sec, but it takes more than 3 sec to "CT mut mut mut rup exang bote"

[wet ruin]

it is actually 3 globals

[balmy condor]

Annsie crushing with the logic

[vast forum]

yea but the 3 extra globals might make a difference

but whatever you do

it's gonna be minor i think

[wet ruin]

you CT mut is rup exsang in normal opener

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s 3 globals

[vast forum]

ideally, you proc cloak, vita and op on pull, get 3-4 cp on first mut and PAMP

[balmy condor]

Just demolished maiev

[vast forum]

i once bursted 380k

it was glorious 🙂

[shut garnet]

dunno, never tested it but PERSONALLY if i procced op vita cloak bbi on pull

[vital haven]

talking about using CT on opener

[vast forum]

o yea, bbi too

[shut garnet]

i would g rup g mut rup no matter how many cp i land on

[vital haven]

heretics

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

The whole point here is that according to procs you can’t control and cp you can’t control, there will be better ways to do your opener, sure

[shut garnet]

well, guess it's aight to track some procs and be dynamic about ur opener that way

[balmy condor]

But unless you’re a micromanagement god and track all your procs and come up with the variation in your head

It’s just not worth it

[shut garnet]

its highly unlikely u proc all at the same time but you proc one-two in opener more often than not tbh

[vital haven]

if only every proc was like clockwork heart

[shut garnet]

LOL

imagine

[vital haven]

every min on the dot you proc it

[balmy condor]

We’re getting to the minutia of opener logic that doesn’t help anyone

[shut garnet]

"why is assa bursting 900k"

[vital haven]

now that im using double clockwork

[balmy condor]

I actually argue overthinking openers with procs in mind will hurt your dps more than just doing the same tried and tested opener over and over again regardless

[vital haven]

i kinda wanna pre pull clf

but im too scared

[balmy condor]

Dude pre pull CLF scares me so much

My guild can’t even pull on 0

[vital haven]

what if prepull clf and someone early pulls

[balmy condor]

You want me to restealth?

[vital haven]

and i dont get stealth

and then i delete me rogue out of anger

[shut garnet]

it has a tiny window where the elemental gets up right?

like, pre casting clf wont ever end up with the elemental yeeting at the boss

surely right

[lean marten]

ive tried pre-pull -> stealth -> step to boss its not terrible

[balmy condor]

It’s sketchy imo

I tired it one night and failed over half of them

[shut garnet]

isnt it a super tiny difference as well to just clfing pre vendetta or whatever

[balmy condor]

Cause my guild can’t fucking pull on 0

[wet ruin]

someone tested it and prepull guardian was not a gain, so if it is, is very minimal

[vital haven]

ye koji said it didnt mattee

[balmy condor]

Like normal idiots

[vital haven]

but with double clockwork idk

[balmy condor]

Prepull guardian is a gain

It’s just minimal

[shut garnet]

how long does clockwork last

20sec?

[balmy condor]

Simcraft does it constantly cause it doesn’t care about my fears

[vital haven]

im thinking you dont wanna waste a gcd on clf when you have like 800 of every secondary stat

[wet ruin]

• sims gain an extra 1 sec out of guardian with prepull

[vital haven]

12 secs it last

[wet ruin]

which might or might not be the reason why its a small gain

[balmy condor]

I’m not risking it for the 0.2% or whatever

Not worth to me

[vital haven]

BUT THE OPENER WHISPYR

[shut garnet]

imagine the loss of starting the fight

[balmy condor]

NO PLS

[shut garnet]

without stealth

[balmy condor]

Nobody tell navi

[normal olive]

[vital haven]

there he is

[balmy condor]

Nothing to see here

No vanish in openers cause we scuffed CLF

No no no

[normal olive]

got it boss

[lean marten]

i don't change my opener based on 5-6 CP

AMA

[normal olive]

I hope you are ready for my Autism later Whisp

Gonna pug hc just for the memes

[balmy condor]

You do it to hurt me

I’m convinced

[vital haven]

a man of good taste i see @lean marten

[normal olive]

I do it because i like to laugh at myself at 3 am when i discover scuffed openers

[quaint vortex]

can't wait to see Navi's new pre-CLF cheap shot opener

the new new meta

our man is at it again

[normal olive]

mark for death into kidney for the sweet opener

[spice spire]

Just think of the prey on the weak damage

[balmy condor]

kidney on CD for the sephuz haste

[normal olive]

shit i gotta restore that great idea

wait can you restore destroyed items?

or just sold ones

[balmy condor]

you can restore pretty much everything

[normal olive]

Gotta Theorycraft the worst opener imaginable

[silent crescent]

I used poison knife in opener in legion because AP proc chance tilted me so much

[balmy condor]

you mean you used poison knife in opener in legion because the chinese poison scaling

[silent crescent]

I dont understand what this means

[balmy condor]

there was a bug in antorus

[rocky holly]

legion poison knives

[balmy condor]

that caused poisons to scale ridiculously hard

because of a stupid interaction

and you had to macro throw knife to shadowstep in order for it to work consistently

caused our damage to triple

the poison damage just kept scaling higher and higher

was mad stupid

[silent crescent]

I got back into legion late after quitting at 7.1 so it must have been patched before I got back

[balmy condor]

it was sort of in the middle of antorus

but they patched it out in a week or so

I remember ravenholdt was a shitshow for that week though

SIN ROGUE OP WE DO THE BUGS YES?

[rocky holly]

we killed 2 prog bosses that night and i deleted the logs and logged off to hide in shadows for 2 days while bans went out

[fleet anchor]

I mean that was only really live for like 2 days 😛

Before they hotfixed it

[balmy condor]

yeah it was quick

[fleet anchor]

Yes, we reported it directly to the devs

I am no fun zone 😄

[rocky holly]

fun times

[balmy condor]

koji "kill-joy" yama

[fleet anchor]

FoK spam was also the big thing for a while

Until they retuned the PK trait and changed everything

[rocky holly]

PK

[fleet anchor]

Assassination still paying for PK traits tbh

FoK is hideously undertuned in BfA because of it

[rocky holly]

i wonder if PK will make a return for rogue legendaries in SL

still no real word on rogue leggos right?

[balmy condor]

wdym fok undertuned, just stack 3 of the same trait and build your entire gear set around it

no big deal

[fleet anchor]

I mean the problem was

Even the baseline 3 PK traits in the Artifact

Were massively propping up FoK's damage

And it never got adjusted post-Artifact

FoK basically just had its damage cut by 2/3rds after BfA prepatch and nobody seemed to care about it lol

[balmy condor]

everyone was playing outlaw kek

[rocky holly]

still no real word on rogue leggos right?
@rocky holly

[balmy condor]

no

or else this discord would be in flames

[rocky holly]

coming soon TM

XD

[fleet anchor]

Also

In 7.2.5 FoK was 150% AP 😄

Now it is 20.5% lol

[balmy condor]

might actually have to turn notifications off for sin channel when legendaries are datamined

its either gonna be POG LEGO BRACERS

or WTF BLIZZ NO LEGO BRACERS

[normal olive]

Can't wait for new openers in SL

[fleet anchor]

How many times am I going to be pinged that day?

Asking for BiS legendary sims? 😄

[balmy condor]

depends how much you want me to ping you

just put channel in slow mod

and then make moroes just go "everyone shut up koji is simming"

every 2 minutes

[fleet anchor]

We haven't even started on any SimC stuff on beta yet because we're waiting to see if they do another mechanical pass or not

Waiting and/or hoping I suppose

[balmy condor]

yeah most of the time when I look in the discord its just "we don't have beta and also blizz is crazy"

[fleet anchor]

At least a lot of people have beta finally, it's more just that like... who knows how finished Rogue really is

With all the bugs and missing bits, it's hard to pull anything together

Assassination probably is what it is I suppose, but the other specs are a little bit of a minor mess

[balmy condor]

I demand combinator to be done and dusted an hour after wowhead posts datamining koji

make it happen

[fleet anchor]

Shiv damage being wrong is the only notable thing about Assassination probably

Provided nothing else changes for Assassination we'll have the APL updated in about 5 minutes

Find&Replace "toxic_blade" with "shiv" .. done. 🤣

[balmy condor]

but you have to do the difficult APL writing of alacrity

[fleet anchor]

Doing the raid last night was basically just playing on live, just with -70% Haste

[balmy condor]

that must be a ton of work

imagine having to copy paste outlaw logic into sin

[fleet anchor]

I mean there are maybe some minor opener bits to figure out (e.g. if it's worth a low CP SnD early) but nothing major

[balmy condor]

if (no alacrity) then
  alacrity
end

[fleet anchor]

lol such gameplay

[balmy condor]

just do that, but in c++

stupid language anyway

[vital haven]

i dont like exsang still being a talent and toxic blade now being baseline

[balmy condor]

make both baseline

that would be some real gameplay decisions

[vital haven]

like with tb now being baseline and SND

when the hell do you find time to get an exsang in

[strange python]

Just press it 5Head

[balmy condor]

on cooldown like all our other buttons

[strange python]

Crimson Tempest was likely never designed to be a single target DPS increase. Come SL I’d venture a guess it won’t be. So maintaining Rupt + SnD in SL will be even easier than the current CT maintenance (SnD has longer buff time). With Exsang you’d likely just press Shiv and Exsang back to back when all maintenance was finished and go into Envenom spam burn mode. Refresh maintenance right around when Shiv effect ends

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter tho

alacrity will crush exsang

unless we get some crazy bleed buffing mechanic

[strange python]

Especially early xpack, for sure

[balmy condor]

if they gives us 3x SS, but twice as strong

we can start talking about it again

[dark crag]

Also all haste corruptions are gone with prepatch

[balmy condor]

yeah its actually crazy

the only reason exsang was good was because corruptions tbh

without corruptions, and especially without SS azerite

feels a little doomed

[silent crescent]

Maybe if rogues were allowed to have legendaries or conduits, exsang could be useful

Unfortunately...

[normal olive]

Wait Rogues aren't getting deleted?

[balmy condor]

even then probably difficult tbh

[strange python]

wait rogues exist in SL?

[balmy condor]

unless they bring out a crazy legendary

[normal olive]

For Mutulate you cast you do 1 extra dmg

[wild lion]

wait rogues exist in SL?
@strange python no we get patched out

[strange python]

Siick

time to reroll aff WL 8)

[balmy condor]

9.0, all rogues are now DH's

[crimson palm]

im doing twice the dmg of others in m+ as sub atm

(beta)

assa is dead

[balmy condor]

nice bone spike buddy

[strange python]

other rogue specs or other classes?

[crimson palm]

classes

its not just bone spikes

[strange python]

more than dks and hunters?

[crimson palm]

sectec's insane

yeah

hunters are around 6-7k

im around 7-8k

[strange python]

What is sectec?

[silent crescent]

Sins performance literally doesnt matter until we have leggos and conduits, I'm sure all of our aoe is borrowed power again

[balmy condor]

100 talent

[strange python]

rly?

What does it do?

[balmy condor]

I mean

[crimson palm]

damage

[balmy condor]

it sounded good when it was implemented

[strange python]

oh is it secret technique?

[crimson palm]

ye

[strange python]

or am I dumb

XDDDDDD

[crimson palm]

kekw

[strange python]

dont mind me then

[balmy condor]

the sec tec in secret technique stands for secret technique

[strange python]

this is me

I thought it was new talent

don't bully me

😦

[balmy condor]

it was a new talent

4 years ago

[strange python]

kekw

[silent crescent]

I think the revamp we need is to change the spec name to mutilation and rename mutilate to assassinate

[strange python]

I see this as an absolute win

[dark crag]

It was the last minute talent

[strange python]

that means rogue is good!

[vital haven]

@silent crescent with the godlike ideas

[dark crag]

It does more dmg because all mobs get fw in aoe

[lost wharf]

How is swapping specs in SL? Do you need new shit like conduits when you wanna change or is it easier than in Bfa?

[balmy condor]

the conduits would swap to your specs conduits I think

I would assume you need different conduits though

cause bis for sin is not bis for sub for example

[strange python]

They’re still looking at conduits, from what Ion said in Preach’s interview. They at least recognize that destructible conduits are not the way to go

[balmy condor]

yeah

[normal olive]

100% gota use Sprint cd get's reduced by 1 second

that shit is gonna be BiS

[strange python]

I’ve a good feeling all daggie boiz gonna go Sub in SL initially, unless they castrate the spec as they’ve done in the past

[lost wharf]

So you need conduits for each spec, but you can just farm them once and they change like talents? Or do I need to swap them like azerite traits right now?

[strange python]

But tuning meme...we won’t know until we know

[balmy condor]

nah now its sin's turn

sub was bad all expac

[strange python]

@lost wharf even Blizzard doesn’t have that answer yet

[lost wharf]

Ah, alright.

[balmy condor]

lmao tru

[arctic walrus]

Drops from content and they work like gems basically. Destroys after changing

[strange python]

@arctic walrus they’ve walked back from the idea of destroy after use

[arctic walrus]

Cool

[balmy condor]

that is how it currently works though

he's not wrong

[vital haven]

so where do i get the necrolord covenant

[normal olive]

Well they can't work that way if we don't have any

[vital haven]

apparently thats the op one

[balmy condor]

you get it from the necrolords

/helpful

[vital haven]

-.-

[lost wharf]

Well sub was just used to cheese Zul mythic. Then they removed what made them good and just never gave anything else to buff it again. Sin never had anything cheesy like that so meh.

[vital haven]

thanks whispyr

[balmy condor]

glad to be of service nairda

[strange python]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MEcXvDDtarc

53:00 mark is where Ion talks about not having a solution for conduits but that they do see the problem of making them destructible

[balmy condor]

not gonna lie

I get he's bald

but the beanie makes me nervous

[strange python]

I feel that lol

[normal olive]

Yep

[strange python]

A man with a beanie has something to hide

[balmy condor]

yeah a modified vape pen from his parents

#off-topic whispyr god damn

yeah I know sorry

[strange python]

Hiding things is rogue-ish

[shut garnet]

@vital haven why dont you have a nzoth log

where is the rank1 sniping

[balmy condor]

he never killed nzoth

[vital haven]

i havent been brought in to nzoth since the reset

[shut garnet]

what the fuck

LOL

[balmy condor]

[vital haven]

[shut garnet]

actually getting inted by guild

[dark crag]

Do they play with 4 hunters, 4 mages and dhs?

[vital haven]

4 mages

people still want items from nzoth and i dont

if id ask id be put in but im no rush honestly

ill od the fight eventually

[dark crag]

You don't want the ring?

[balmy condor]

for what purpose

mecha rings exist

[vital haven]

ive got 3 lmao

[balmy condor]

that's 3 too many

[vital haven]

TRUE

[hasty vale]

Yo do we have any info for rogues going forward? Like even datamined shit? Or like a blue post or anything lol?

[balmy condor]

no

[umbral rapids]

Rogues don’t exist in SL

[hasty vale]

Starting to feel like it man, I heard we don't even have anima powers or was that just overblown worry?

[balmy condor]

we don't have conduits or legendaries

[rancid bobcat]

need 1 nzoth ring for pvp

[sick oyster]

did anyone else notice that skitra adds dont get hit by CT anymore since patch?

[balmy condor]

yeah we were talking about it earlier

seems bugged

[sick oyster]

ah ok missed it here then

[balmy condor]

yeah was like 3ish hours ago

[rigid eagle]

speaking of skit, how do we play around the cheese strat where they pull boss to wall?

just start next to boss and run with it all the way back to group?

[balmy condor]

wdym how do we play around it

[rigid eagle]

like it breaks ur stealth right at the start of fight

and u lose ur entire opener...

[balmy condor]

yeah just sprint and do your opener on the move

[rigid eagle]

👌

[shut garnet]

just tricks and open bro

[balmy condor]

ye

[shut garnet]

dont forget to CT when she phases

ah

wait a sec..

[balmy condor]

[rancid bobcat]

what

skitra breaks stealth?

[balmy condor]

he means on pull

the entire raid is stacked up

and he's like reee

I assume

idk why it would break stealth either

but I don't ask questions

[lament aurora]

How much of an impact does being in a more casual guild have on your avg parses. for example, could I avg 99 parse in a US 500 guild?

[balmy condor]

I mean

if they let you parse I guess

you'll get faster kill times

but you can parse just fine without it

[patent topaz]

does US have 500 guilds?

[lament aurora]

[balmy condor]

[shut garnet]

there are advantages to being in lower rated guilds parsing wise

having 20 complete blasters is more harmful to parses than not in a couple cases

f.ex if ur playing nzoth with 4 mages hf dotting thots

[balmy condor]

yeah

the only thing you really get is crazy kill times

which certainly helps

[shut garnet]

but even then

they can be sketchy

[balmy condor]

but you can't pad as much

[shut garnet]

cuz if you kill bosses in 2 mins compared to like 2:40

thats a loss

[lament aurora]

ye my guild has never killed maut pre-stone phase so I feel like thats kinda stopping me there for a fat parse for example.

[patent topaz]

half the raid is a 2 min kill at this point

[shut garnet]

u can easily get 95 on maut

with stone phase

[balmy condor]

yeah

[shut garnet]

99s probably sketchy to get without skipping

but its not very common anyway

[balmy condor]

you can get full orange in basically every guild

[lament aurora]

right I'm 95 avg parse right now but wanted to shoot for 99

but dunno if I'm gated by my guild at that point

[shut garnet]

then ask ur guild if they wanna do 2/1/17

[lament aurora]

ty thats a good idea @shut garnet

[shut garnet]

tho there is a 2nd way to fastkill maut

which is 1/2(or3)/17

and u basically just let him eat the adds regardless cuz if u have decent dps it'll get one phase regardless

[patent topaz]

didnt even have a 485 dagger in these kills, not that bad on maut

[shut garnet]

the 247 kill timer

[lean marten]

dps will generally increase in shorter window fights

[lone junco]

lol

that 7:09 Maut was post enrage

at least our shads are consistent. 4:34, 4:43, 4:33

[patent topaz]

last time I inted shadhar and forgot to change essences, havent been there since

[fleet anchor]

Some more testing of Blindside on beta.. pretty consistently getting about 5% free Ambush damage from it (plus CP contribution) so overall value probably 6-7%.. without actually reaching execute on say Sludgefist testing. Execute increases the proc rate by double below 35%

So at least at a glance for ST, Blindside seems like it will be pretty competitive with EP until we get higher gear levels

Will have to see what the final numbers end up being though, or if they add any Ambush synergy anywhere else

[warm parcel]

Now just make slaughter not be horrible

[waxen field]

on sims CR is lower than poison bomb, so idk which one to run on m+

[warm parcel]

BS also felt fairly nice

BS on top of spike gives you some nice wiggleroom with cps

[fleet anchor]

Yeah

Bone Spike is definitely fun

Probably a bit overtuned right now (although hard to say since some other covenant abilities for other classes are in that range too)

[warm parcel]

a bit?

[fleet anchor]

Well

[warm parcel]

Isnt slaughter literally 0 dps

vs spike that can get out of hand real quick

[fleet anchor]

Compared to all of ours it is

But like our Covenant abilities are basically crap

Compared to most others 😛

Other than Bone Spike

But I like the gameplay on multi-target and also as a CP filler

[robust light]

Hi sorry to interuppt but am i supposed to let Exsang bleeds fall off before i reapply? So not applying at pandemic

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Yes

[robust light]

thought so ty

[balmy condor]

Pandemic only extends duration, it does not extend damage

[fleet anchor]

Slaughter it would be nice to have any idea what their thought about it is

[warm parcel]

I mean the idea is there

But the numbers arent

[balmy condor]

I’m curious to see how things shake out between aoe and single target

[crimson palm]

playing melee on both bosses felt pretty shitty

[balmy condor]

The way bone spike works it seems like it would good in both situations

[patent topaz]

I want alacrity gone from sub and assa

[crimson palm]

snd needs to go away

i get what they're trying to do but its fucking awful

[warm parcel]

?

[patent topaz]

imagine snd + rupture + ct + garrote

[crimson palm]

it feels like ass having to maintain both buffs with the energy level at start

[patent topaz]

them plates

[umbral prairie]

how exactly does bonespike work?

[warm parcel]

so it feels bad

not that it doesnt work

[patent topaz]

how can it not work

doesnt make too much sense for assa

[warm parcel]

well shadow priest doesnt really work right now

it plays in quite the degen way

it also feels bad

snd might only feel bad

not play like degen

[balmy condor]

@umbral prairie you cast it, it adds a infinite dot, gives some cp

Multiple charges, if the target dies you get the charge back

[umbral prairie]

can you stack it on a single enemy?

and do the charges only come back if the enemy they're on dies?

[balmy condor]

No

Yes

They have a recharge

So you can have technically an infinite amount out on every target dummy in the world if you so choose

Until it un-loads

[umbral prairie]

wow

[balmy condor]

And then obviously rip

[umbral prairie]

does the damage increase by the number that are out or is it just a flat infinite dot?

[balmy condor]

It’s a flat infinite

Just endless duration dot ticking away

Think of it like a garrote but you don’t have to refresh it

[umbral prairie]

gotcha

wow

[balmy condor]

You toss it up, gives cp, and then ticks away

[umbral prairie]

that seems a bit silly

[warm parcel]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17PwUb4DBdwYHguapc7J9EVqzxvHe3-tKVhPdqtNw41Y/edit
If you wanna read

[umbral prairie]

thanks!

[balmy condor]

!sl

[prisma monolith]

Mystlers Shadowlands Notes: http://tiny.cc/p8ljsz

[balmy condor]

Cmon man

We got bot commands for that

:P

[warm parcel]

lol

[umbral prairie]

ha

I had previously benched my Sin rogue early in bfa but was just wondering what had changed since it seems like nobody is talking about rogues, will give this a read

[balmy condor]

Tldr nothing changed

We got slice n dice and shiv is toxic blade but baseline

And that’s it

[umbral prairie]

that's... depressing

exsang + TB I guess might be a thing?

[balmy condor]

Definitely not at this point

Alacrity is 20% haste and exsang doesn’t work without corruptions

So

You pick

:P

[umbral prairie]

bah

[low girder]

hey, we also got... ambush

[vast forum]

i did raidtesting today with blindside

feels decent tbh

[low girder]

would be nice, i kinda like blindside

[vast forum]

although, feels aren't as relevant as numbers

we'll see how it turns out after balancing

[crimson palm]

you got any assa logs?

i was testing sub and they cut us off just as i was done setting my assa binds >:

[vast forum]

they're private i think 😦

maybe not idk

[crimson palm]

[vast forum]

ah ye, unlisted

i was doing >4k on sludgefist on a 1% wipe

idk if that's any good tbh

but i was only behind 3 warlocks and above every1 else

sludgefist looks a lot like a sub fight tho (assuming same tuning)

8 sec burst windows every ~minute

[crimson palm]

ye that's the dmg profile

after every roar

[vast forum]

every other i think

[crimson palm]

numbers wise 3.2k dps~

outlaw 2.7~

[warm parcel]

as if dps had any meaning right now

[vast forum]

that's why we're talking about timings 🙂

[crimson palm]

this is what it looks like

felt ok to play after getting used to it

[lone junco]

@fleet anchor is EP white listed these days? aka will it buff the Covenant abilities?

[warm parcel]

it is whitelisted

and covenants should be included in those

[lone junco]

the 4p20 +60% garrote bonus would be nice to include with the SS that got embedded into subterfuge

but I still liked wrists most tbh.

[vast forum]

SS didn't get embedded into subterfuge tho

[patent topaz]

legendaries will be SS, DD, legion bracers

[strange python]

Nah

Double dose is dead

And doesn’t work with blindside

[patent topaz]

hasnt stopped them from making it in bfa

[strange python]

Bfa is scuffed

And with the rework to blindside I highly doubt DD is a legendary

[patent topaz]

I just hope it isnt the blandest shit like azerite and legion stuff

[strange python]

Oh me too

I’ve been looking through old tier set bonuses to see what we could potentially be getting as one

I could really see echoing blades be one

[balmy condor]

Pls no

EB is awful design

[lean marten]

aoe band-aid

[strange python]

Lol

[balmy condor]

The target capping on EB makes me nervous cause that seems like something that fits into the target cap aoe design philosophy

But god damnit it’s bad

[strange python]

I agree

Wonder why we are the last class for legendaries xD

Kinda annoying

[lean marten]

just to troll this discord

[balmy condor]

Cause rogues always get the short end of the stick

[robust light]

Is there a way with wa's to track when my bleeds are Exsang buffed?

[balmy condor]

Yes

You set up a trigger on event combat log exsanguinate cast

And then you would add whatever option you’d like based on that trigger

[robust light]

do u have one already u can link me? :p

[balmy condor]

sure

[lone junco]

The free bones legendary would be cool. Especially if sin could use it. Builders. Energy. Attack speed. Crit. Cdr

Jk. But not really

[balmy condor]

this is the trigger

this is my condition

[robust light]

would u be able to pastebin me ur string for that wa? i can then play around with how it looks as long as the trigger/etc is all correct

im not amazing with wa's

[dire spoke]

this is my condition

[balmy condor]

it is

it was very big brain

[dire spoke]

thinking about it, I might rewrite it for rupture instead of garrote

[fleet anchor]

@lone junco yeah what he said. Covenant abilities are in most of the whitelists

With a couple exceptions

[devout fiber]

ARe there any youtubers u guys recommend for pvp ?

[fleet anchor]

Like Nightstalker doesn't work on Bone Spike (which I expected, but I did test) lol

[devout fiber]

I'd watch Pika but I feel like he's too advanced for me to understand anything

[fleet anchor]

Bone Spike for example is on the following whitelists:

Affecting spells : Master of Subtlety (31665 effect#1), Vendetta (79140 effect#1), Subtlety Rogue (137035 effect#1), Outlaw Rogue (137036 effect#1), Assassination Rogue (137037 effect#1), Shadow Dance (185313 effect#4), Ruthless Precision (193357 effect#1), Elaborate Planning (193641 effect#1), Symbols of Death (212283 effect#1), Headshot (242277 effect#1), Master Assassin (256735 effect#1)

[waxen field]

for raid, expe stacking is the best, but exsanguinate become interesting/better starting a certain haste cap ? according to the guide pinned, i need 50% + 2shrouded, i actually got 55 and on sims im still like 3% under toxic blade build, is that due to sims rotation ?

[balmy condor]

I've seen it do much less than that

I'm guessing your poison azerite is poppin

and your SS azerite isnt

[waxen field]

actually that might, i think im just a little ungeared for now

[jovial forge]

Hi guys, I don't understand why the rogue with full Expedient play with the talent "Crimson Tempest" on a full Patchwerk fight ? Is the poison ticks is base on the % of haste ?

[balmy condor]

crimson tempest ticks based on haste

just like garrote and rupture

so with enough haste, crimson tempest becomes better than poison bomb

roughly 60% haste unbuffed

sim yourself to see if its better for you. Keep in mind if you have a TTK trait (envenom trait), you won't use CT

[lost summit]

Brand new to assass, is it bad to be rupturing at 4 combo points with no stratagem?

[balmy condor]

no, you would finish at 4 with vigor

that's perfectly fine

[lost summit]

What if garrote or toxic is up?

[balmy condor]

that's still all fine

if you're at 4 combo points and you're running vigor, you finish

[lost summit]

ok

ty

[weary badger]

How do we approach hive? SS or EB build?

[balmy condor]

SS

[stone gust]

Is waiting for full expedient 3 better then grabbing some 2s

[balmy condor]

depends how many echoes you're farming

and how bad you need the exped

[stone gust]

I am not raiding on it so I can farm more and wait

Since it’s for sky raids

Alt raids *

[ashen fulcrum]

anyone know what cov assass is taking atm on beta?

[spice spire]

Exp 3 is a pretty hefty increase

Over exp II. You can run 2 to fill out your current corruption resistance assuming ur not max

[arctic walrus]

bonespike/necrolords @ashen fulcrum

[ashen fulcrum]

tks @arctic walrus

[steep plover]

Unbuffed haste is just haste from gear alone no corruption/procs etc?

[balmy condor]

no, unbuffed is with corruptions

just afk sitting in town

[main blaze]

Man, I was excited to get Beta but rogue is still really missing a lot of stuff

[balmy condor]

yeah

like everything

[main blaze]

haha yeah

"Hey Guys give us feedback on Rogue, in the class forum!"

...feedback on what?

[nimble vector]

after garroting 3 targets in m+ what is the break point for using rupture / crimson tempest for max damage

[balmy condor]

depends on your build and your stats

if you're going 3x EB, you would rupture for energy, maintain CT, and only finish for EP

you can CT on like 6-7

otherwise enven

[bleak spoke]

Nah with 3 eb you don’t finish for ep

You just maintain ct and rupture for energy right

[balmy condor]

[bleak spoke]

And dump energy with fok?

[balmy condor]

you finish for EP so you get the big foks

[bleak spoke]

Idk it’s been that way since eb’s existed innit

That the lost global isn’t worth it

Like iirc you finished for ep with 2eb in previous tiers not sure about this one

[balmy condor]

that's what I've been told by ryfie n stuff

[nimble vector]

I've mostly just been running a raid build with a torment for ~20 keys, is it worth fishing for 480 azerite with SS / EB

[bleak spoke]

But even when our gear was awful you just slammed fok as long as you don’t have energy related issues

[balmy condor]

at this point in the expac probably not worth the time

[nimble vector]

I have like 20k residuum atm anyway

[bleak spoke]

I mean do you have any ss eb pieces already

And which slots do you have it in

[nimble vector]

I think I have one head in bags with SS EB

[bleak spoke]

Cuz that makes a difference

Okay head is the rarest

[balmy condor]

roll for shoulder then

but you need crit to make it work

[bleak spoke]

It’s the only piece with ss eb on it

Yeh you need a severe strikethrough setup with eb

If you have an outlaw set it does double duty here

[nimble vector]

I have a lot of strikethrough but don't play outlaw because no mythic slappers

[bleak spoke]

Yeh you want like high crit low versa pieces with severe and strikethrough basically

[nimble vector]

Sweet thanks

kind of a dumb question but is dungeon slice actually a decent way to sim M+

[balmy condor]

no

4-6 1-1:30

[nimble vector]

Okay ty

[bleak spoke]

Patchwerk to be precise

No lust, and check off the buffs you actually have in your group (though it won’t change much)

[strange python]

@balmy condor what does that mean 4-6 1-1:30 I’m a bit slow man

[balmy condor]

4-6 targets

1-1:30 duration

patchwerk

like the guy above me said with the buffs

[strange python]

Oh ok ty