assassination

[fleet whale]

it wouldn't surprise me if a honed mind 3 actually would actually sim higher than the final exp 3 you could possibly use

[celest swan]

to udnerstand the specc

and what happens why

[balmy condor]

EB scales well off crit, poorly off haste tbh

Fan damage doesn’t matter from haste

[fleet whale]

that mastery proc would look really nice with how fast your bleeds are ticking

[young dust]

yeah thought it would be still good since all my items are crit/haste even though i'm stacking exp

but apparently they still go HoD

[balmy condor]

That’s why we take it in the final build

[fleet whale]

and it wouldn't surprise me with some people depending on their haste/trinkets

that they use a mastery gem or two

[crimson palm]

Hm3 in 2 weeks

[lapis spindle]

What are you going to pick up in SL for pvp/pve etc ?

From what I read rogue is pretty fine

[naive lynx]

rode?

[balmy condor]

Considering this is a rogue discord, you’re going to get a lot of rogue answers

[lapis spindle]

Ye

That's the point, what you guys will pick up

Sin ? Sub ? Out ?

[balmy condor]

We have no idea yet

[strange python]

Tuning isnt known yet dude

How should we know

[main forge]

What ever is fun and gives me the best utility and dps

[strange python]

Wait until heroic week and after

[lapis spindle]

Just regarding what was said

[normal olive]

What are Legendarys and Conduits

[balmy condor]

Most people will play whats best

And we don’t know what’s best

Cause we don’t even have legendaries yet

[lapis spindle]

I just know that poisons are back for everyone

[balmy condor]

Sure

[lapis spindle]

Yeye

[balmy condor]

And we all get slice and dice

[naive lynx]

and Siv :d

[lapis spindle]

They destroyed the rogue in BFA in my opinion

[balmy condor]

We had like 0 changes from legion

[main forge]

But seeing as we haven't been touched at all since the alpha was released... we will see what happens in the final tuning pass

[balmy condor]

Sub I can see

[lapis spindle]

Yes we had, on overall damùages

[balmy condor]

Sure the uldir change

[lapis spindle]

in legion you stunlock a tank

[balmy condor]

That’s balancing my dude

[lapis spindle]

in cataclysm you sutlock every melee you wanted

in WOD same

Same in MOP

[balmy condor]

You can still stun lock with sub

You just hit DR’s

Like anything else would

[lapis spindle]

here you have to be 9x GW, double Bis tirnket and highly geared to "stunlock"

[main forge]

Nah, you don't.

[balmy condor]

So your problem is the game, not the class?

[lapis spindle]

As sin, not sub

[balmy condor]

I’m confused what the question is

[lapis spindle]

The thing is rogue is too dependant of gear imo

[balmy condor]

And that’s an opinion you’re allowed to have

[lapis spindle]

In legion you were naked and you could do some dmg

[balmy condor]

That’s probably less true

[lapis spindle]

On Nighthold that was insane

[balmy condor]

Legendaries and artifact weapons were huge

But okay

[lapis spindle]

I had Normal gear and was able to take down mythic tanks

[balmy condor]

What’s the point of this

[main forge]

PvP was normalized back the

back then

[balmy condor]

Yeah we had pvp stat templates

If we’re talking pvp

[main forge]

Like gear was essentially removed from the game when it came to pvp

[lapis spindle]

Mate I had like 50 ilvl less of every dps in my group, I wa sable to top 3 dps

[main forge]

Now gear matters again in pvp. like it did in every expansion besides legion

In pve?

[balmy condor]

Nelson what’s the point here

[lapis spindle]

yes ANtorus

[plain thistle]

[balmy condor]

You can play with bad players and do good

This isn’t anything new

[lapis spindle]

Bad players with orange logs 😄

[balmy condor]

In lfr?

[lapis spindle]

SO for you, rogue is as storng as legion

No that was heroic

[balmy condor]

Okay that whole thing aside

Balance changes

Rogue is fine

In every patch

Since the beginning of the game

There has been at least 1 spec that’s viable

What is good and bad is different every raid

[lapis spindle]

They destroyed sub

making it unplayable for pve

[balmy condor]

Sure

But sin and outlaw are still good

Again, what is your point here

Where are we going with this

[lapis spindle]

wdym

[balmy condor]

You seem to be complaining about specs being good or bad

And I don’t understand why

[lapis spindle]

no aboiut BFA

and rogue

[solid chasm]

can someone show me a pic of what their details shows for them in a normal fight

[balmy condor]

Use logs color

[solid chasm]

im trying to help my friend who is sin bc he doesnt know proper rotation

[balmy condor]

Logs are details but better

[main forge]

yeah, use logs....

[normal olive]

Oh you want a proper rotation i hear?

[main forge]

Details shows damage... and that can vary due to gear

[balmy condor]

Navi get out

No one asked you

[plain thistle]

show us

[shy dust]

Rogue was destroyed in bfa

[normal olive]

[shy dust]

That’s very interesting to hear

[plain thistle]

yeah, one of the best pvp class, one of the best dungeon class

dead

[balmy condor]

@hollow osprey you can hate bfa, and you can dislike changes, but rogue has been very good in bfa, and very good in the past

[royal lantern]

how is rogue destroyed

[balmy condor]

And that’s just facts

[royal lantern]

like, rogue is rogue

[balmy condor]

Idk what you’re trying to prove

Or what the idea is here

But rogue is good

[royal lantern]

1 of the best progression classes for the entire expac

it is a bit weak rn, but like

its not unplayable bad lol

[balmy condor]

That happens

Balance

Just a natural cycle

[plain thistle]

yeah, not the best for the raid currently, but its not weak by any means

[balmy condor]

Sometimes you ain’t top dog

[main forge]

There were plenty of expansions where we were top 3 dps for raiding

[royal lantern]

tbh, a pure dps class SHOULD be one of the best dps options

[balmy condor]

Agreed

[main forge]

Truth in that. Its not currently but Truth there

[royal lantern]

cus we cant go healer/tank w/e

[main forge]

Or ranged

[plain thistle]

healer rogue when?

[main forge]

And ranged at least can come to melee range.

Healing poisons

throwing healing vials all over

[normal olive]

ineffable truth tank rogue with 100% evasion uptime

[main forge]

I'd enjoy a tank rogue, or making outlaw have a ranged rotation with equipping a gun or bow >_>

[vital haven]

dude i love that emote

[main forge]

I have no idea what it means

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

[main forge]

I am old and busted... I meme game is bad... back in my day... it was just a/s/l?

[balmy condor]

Kabrai boomer over here

[royal lantern]

@main forge just wanna say, the day rogue gets a ranged spec, the other 2 specs are dead and never see play again

people love too forget that

unless its REALLY undertuned

[main forge]

Eh... or if it is balanced... it would just show how ranged is more favored especially since every class added to the game has been melee

[royal lantern]

nah like

every single RL would tell you"wait you are not ranged?"

cus then they expect you too be ranged

[tropic ocean]

Play hunter

[royal lantern]

look at hunter, when you invite a hunter, you expect a ranged cus ranged is a option

[tropic ocean]

Ranged rogue

Wtf

[main forge]

We could just go back to talking about how BFA destroyed rogues and that in legion you could stunlock a mythic geared tank in pvp that was 50 ilvls above you >_>

[placid harbor]

do you guys use galecaller's boon before garrote out of stealth to snapshot haste or with vendetta?

[balmy condor]

Before exsang

Garrote from stealth doesn’t snapshot haste

Exsang snapshots

[placid harbor]

aah ty

[balmy condor]

You can use it with vendetta as long as you’re standing in it when you hit exsang

Use on cooldown in between vendetta’s

[placid harbor]

got it, thx a lot

[tropic ocean]

Bfa destroyed rogue?

Think i played a different game last 2 years

[royal lantern]

rogue not toptier for 1raidtier=ded class

[twilit ginkgo]

kek

[harsh anchor]

I resubbed maybe a week ago - got rid of all of my tendies and am full expedient with 3ss, bbi and 2hod. 5mask should be ez af, ye? Or 1np and 1eb still perferred?

[tropic ocean]

except rogue still top pick for progression

[twilit ginkgo]

I wouldn't say rogue was a top prog spec for this tier

but it isn't trolling to be a rogue by any means

[main forge]

Mages and Warlocks were definitely favored

[twilit ginkgo]

^

Mage/Lock/BM hunter

best dps classes by a mile

[tropic ocean]

Progression

[main forge]

BM hunter did well without even heavy gearing

[tropic ocean]

Not farm

[royal lantern]

this is probably 1 of the worst expacs for rogue in a long time, and it was still a great class for almost everything

[twilit ginkgo]

i was talking about progression

[tropic ocean]

8/10 or so top 10 guilds used rogue in progress so

Yeah dead class

[royal lantern]

no mage/lock was op as they are rn during progression

[main forge]

How many rogues though? Did they bring 3-4 rogues?

[twilit ginkgo]

I don't think it's a dead class lol

[tropic ocean]

And hunter was by no means op in progression bcuz

[main forge]

And did they bring 3-4 mage/hunter/warlock?

[tropic ocean]

Hunter got busted with severe access

Who stacked hunters??

[twilit ginkgo]

Every class got way better with corruption

you have to keep that in mind even with the progression mindset

[tropic ocean]

Literally mage and then lock

[twilit ginkgo]

I remember progging on Nzoth and my raid leader saying I wish I could do this fight with nothing but BM hunters as dps lol

might just be my group I guess

[royal lantern]

sounds like a shity rl

imo

[twilit ginkgo]

they lose no damage from movement they do very high damage

they have a short cd immunity for soaks

[normal olive]

@balmy condor i just had the biggest stroke i think i ever had

[twilit ginkgo]

they are pretty damn amazing lol

[main forge]

I see many progression groups running 1 rogue... maybe 2... they definitely ran 1 hunter, maybe 2, upwards to 3.

[royal lantern]

thats a melee vs ranged problem

[twilit ginkgo]

that factors into the issue certainly

ranged was better for almost all the end tier fights

[royal lantern]

immagine blizzard making fights where you dont get buttfucked by taking more then 5melee

[balmy condor]

What you do now navi

[main forge]

Imagine if they they didn't add a melee spec every other expansion

[normal olive]

I just fucked my opener in a way i never thought i could

[twilit ginkgo]

link logs so we can all stroke

[tropic ocean]

This tier was actually one of the best for melee

[balmy condor]

Aight let’s see it

I’m ready

My body is ready

[tropic ocean]

In comparison to other tiers in bfa

[normal olive]

[tropic ocean]

Only problematic one was ilgynoth

[balmy condor]

Oh my god

[twilit ginkgo]

wow

that's

rough

[normal olive]

the moment i pressed vanish i was like, what the fuck am i doing

[tropic ocean]

Nice vanish

[twilit ginkgo]

exsang garrote covered over instantly ROFL

[normal olive]

i think that's it, i've peaked

[main forge]

and rupture maybe too

[twilit ginkgo]

rupture was too yeah

but at that point it's like

I fucked up who cares

[pale tiger]

you're actually doing this to troll whisp

theres no way

i refuse to believe

that was an accident

[normal olive]

If that were the case i wouldn't be ashamed of posting that one xD

Holy fuck that's the worst i've done

[pale tiger]

that's like

[balmy condor]

I’m convinced at this point too

[pale tiger]

texbook what not to do

[balmy condor]

Like he trolls me a lot

[main forge]

Okay... How do I get to that page to see that

[balmy condor]

But this is a new level

Timeline casts

[pale tiger]

like i've seen some of your other screenshots that look like you're just mashing your face on the keyboard

but this like

too precise

it must be a troll

[normal olive]

the 2 mut came out because i the second gar was outside of sub window

so i fucked up there allready

[balmy condor]

You gonna explain yourself kabrai

[normal olive]

[main forge]

I posted wrong one >_>

bad opener

[balmy condor]

My eyes

[west totem]

[normal olive]

where did you pres exang?

[balmy condor]

I’m in here like 20 hours a day

And this is how you repay me

You monsters

[normal olive]

[main forge]

... probably 5 seconds after all that >_>... I think discord voice was getting too chatty with a boss on farm

[strange python]

i feel personally violated by this opener

[normal olive]

if i show you my latest logs, you'll atleast see 3 messed up openers but the rest is fine

[balmy condor]

Dude honestly

That’s 3 too many

Where is your muscle memory

[normal olive]

i know

[west totem]

What about this

[balmy condor]

Ah

Finally

An actual opener

It’s not great

But I’ll take it

[normal olive]

I'd call my openers art

[west totem]

What would you have changed here?

[wintry terrace]

my guild was doing ilyg prog last night, got him down finally, and on the kill pull my balance druids opener was so bad... got the kill, parsed 38, my dps was substantially lower than usual burst

of course thats when we get the kill

lmao

[balmy condor]

That vendetta needs to come out before the first mutilate

[west totem]

So before i extend my Rupture?

[balmy condor]

What

No

That’s all fine

Just move the vendetta before the mutilate

[west totem]

Thats what i meant

[balmy condor]

Oh

Then yes

[west totem]

aight

[balmy condor]

I’m cleaning my keyboard

Mobile is hard

[robust light]

cant decide wether to buy helm or shoulders

to try get atleast 2x EB

shoulders has 3 good options but helms have like 1 i think but keeping bbi would probs be better than envenom soo idk

[balmy condor]

Don’t gamble helms

Especially if you have irontide

Just run the 2x EB 1x TTK

[robust light]

the reward is sliiightly better tho if i hit jackpot :p

[balmy condor]

It’ll work out fine

[robust light]

yeah i guess so

3 in 7 chance then monkas

[balmy condor]

Better than 1/7

[robust light]

whats the best sim settings for m+?

i been doing pathwork 4targets 1min no lust for an idea of aoe

[balmy condor]

Usually 5-7 targets 1-1:30 length

No lust obviously

4 target 1 Minute works too

That’s a smaller pull

But also fine

[robust light]

yeah but i usually pug and pugs dont tend to go big

so 4 is about average

[warm parcel]

too late on opener memes?

[balmy condor]

You don’t ask, weak

You just give

Such is the way

[warm parcel]

I gave up on life after this

Idno what happened

[balmy condor]

Tb

[warm parcel]

even combatpot

[balmy condor]

[warm parcel]

its like all levels of bad

[lost horizon]

that's so fucked up

[balmy condor]

Truly cursed

[lost horizon]

the vanish

[little root]

bwahahahah

[lost horizon]

is agonizing

[warm parcel]

I cant even explain it

[balmy condor]

Augment Rune bound to vendetta?

[little root]

what the shit did i just look at

[balmy condor]

Wat

[warm parcel]

permarune is bound to ven ye

[balmy condor]

Kinda smart I guess

[warm parcel]

least wont ever forget it

something done right

[vast forum]

i bind my rune to stealth

it's much more reliable 🙂

[warm parcel]

I like my stealth button pure

[balmy condor]

Like the blood of the sacrificed

[arctic walrus]

imagine not clicking it out of bags

[balmy condor]

Wait what

[arctic walrus]

not true gamers

[warm parcel]

washed up boomers

[balmy condor]

Using macros

Just rotation helper

It’ll tell you to use rune

Turn it into a game of bop-it

[warm parcel]

idno chief

[balmy condor]

Macros are pretty sick tho

[warm parcel]

I just cba to forget it ever

[green forge]

Use on cooldown in between vendetta’s
@balmy condor
Can you remember me why its important use it on cd in between vendettas?

[balmy condor]

What cd

Exsang? Gale?

Tb?

the shortform regardless is that it lines up with the next vendetta that way

[green forge]

Gcb yeah

[balmy condor]

yeah gcb if you cast with vendetta

you cast on cd

or else you miss a cast or have weird timing

there's nothing you can line it up with

so

just hit that shit on cd

[green forge]

What about delaying 2nd exsang for 2nd gcb ?

[balmy condor]

no

you're forcing the big lineup back another 15 seconds

[green forge]

Alright

[balmy condor]

so by delaying 2nd exsang, you also delay vendetta, vanish, and the 3rd gcb

by proxy

[green forge]

I couldn’t remember what was the trick with gcb

[balmy condor]

the trick?

oh

I guess a "trick"

is to stand in it, cast exsang

and then you can run around

cause it did its purpose

[green forge]

I meant, I knew it had a thing playin with gcb but I couldnt remembered what
But yes indeed, it was exsang & gcb in between vendettas that are actually NOT used together

Thanks for the reminder mate

[balmy condor]

you mean they're not used together

:P

[green forge]

Jeeesus

Going to sleep right know (obviously I need it)

[balmy condor]

good night

[green forge]

[shadow wedge]

[celest swan]

if i have a non empowered garrote active wiht time remaining over pandemic window, its enouhg to cast garrote once after vanish right? (as the last gcd though)

[balmy condor]

I'm a little confused not gonna lie

[scarlet sequoia]

yes its fine

[celest swan]

thanks

[balmy condor]

don't you want to still double cast garrotes in the subterfuge window to get the extra tick tho

am I not understanding

[celest swan]

that would mean 1 tick is worth more then a cast of another ability

but i get the thought

[scarlet sequoia]

usually is true

shouldnt be a scenario where u cant cast 2 garrotes in subterfuge anyways

[balmy condor]

yeah that extra tick is usually better

garrote still gives 3cp

kinda big

[celest swan]

well i was thinking multitarget for example

and i have non empowered garrotes on 2 targets

[scarlet sequoia]

then yes youre chilling

[balmy condor]

yeah in that case

thats fine

[celest swan]

i mean the quesiton was is the whole garrote converted into a empwoered garrote

[scarlet sequoia]

it is

[celest swan]

and that was answered i guess

so lets say i have 5 targets, 2 have garrote

and i vanish

[balmy condor]

you garrote 3 of them

ideally the 2 that have it

and an extra

[celest swan]

ye exact

thanks

[balmy condor]

ye thanks raz

[celest swan]

another question for st the guide says after my second vendetta/vanish where i use all togehter

i need to think about kill times

what would be common uses after that

it implies i dont get antoher full 2min lineup, else i would do it right?

[balmy condor]

yeah so after the 2:20 lineup

[celest swan]

so first thin would be to use exsang + BotE after 1.5 min ifpossible

[balmy condor]

I guess the next one is like GCB/exsang

and then that

yeah

[celest swan]

but as long as i get a full comb agian i dont split up cd's

i mean there could a be case where i could use another 2x BotE

isntead of 1 if i dont align them before

[balmy condor]

yeah

[celest swan]

but i guess thats too specific to know or is it even worth math wise

[balmy condor]

but I think even then, you would want to bote the exsang

bote on a full cd is better than 2 individual botes in the middle of nowhere

[celest swan]

i mean for example i use full combo at ~2:30

exsang 3:15, exsagn+bote 4:00, vendetta+vanish+exsang ~4:50, exsang+bote 5:35, fight end ~ 6:oo

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's not worth

[celest swan]

good that makes decision amking easier 😄

[balmy condor]

if you can lineup bote with vendetta/vanish

you would

[celest swan]

even it is still one use of bote less, check

[balmy condor]

correct

[celest swan]

thanks again

[balmy condor]

anytime

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[dull osprey]

Why do we use crimson tempest on drest?

[balmy condor]

we use crimson tempest single target

[dull osprey]

huh. Mine sims 1.5k less. is that just haste based?

[balmy condor]

haste and not having TTK traits

irontide helm is a very common block

[dull osprey]

ahhhh. My current build is SS and DD build

[balmy condor]

those are 2 different builds

are you SS/exsang with some DD

or are you DD/poison with some SS

[dull osprey]

SS/exang with DD

sorry, shoulda specified

[balmy condor]

yeah then that's fine

as long as you don't have TTK

[dull osprey]

2 and 2 and no TTK

[balmy condor]

then its just a haste thing

[dull osprey]

gotcha

[balmy condor]

60%ish

[dull osprey]

Thanks!

ahhhhhhh I'm only at 50% resting

[balmy condor]

@scarlet sequoia thanks

[daring urchin]

hey guys, i started on nzoth M today, any tips or recommendations dps wise?

[devout fiber]

which one?

@balmy condor need you again xD

[balmy condor]

take the right

[vital haven]

wtf

what is that leveling gear?

take the left one

thunderous blast

actually it prob doesnt matter

[balmy condor]

yeah

I think the cleave

[oblique smelt]

@daring urchin If you have at least 2 fire mages i.e. you can have 1 in each realm you shouldn't need to Vendetta Psychus, so just make sure you have it for every burn and then pretty much can just use it on CD from there when hitting N'zoth. Your damage is gonna be best used on boss, assa's cleave on that fight is nothing compared to Ignite so just spec for single target and pump the boss

That would be my recommendation for a first kill at least

[strange python]

@devout fiber you can use this addon for a general idea, it shows you whats best while leveling: https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/azeritepowerweights

it has some default values but you can also set your own

[balmy condor]

I would agree with zas as well

let the fire mage ignite carry cleave and just pump

[devout fiber]

@vital haven yh i'm only 114

[daring urchin]

ok thx for the info

🙂

[oblique smelt]

🙂

Btw for Psychus after the 4th synapse there isn't much point in hitting synapses anymore since that's when your fire mage will likely pop his combustion and ignite can pretty much kill those synapses on it's own

[fallow otter]

@daring urchin do you know if you are 1.5min or 2m vend?

For your raid

[weary badger]

Does vend affect exsang?

[balmy condor]

it affects exsang'd dots

if that's the question

[weary badger]

Ok lemme rephrase

If I press vend after i have an empowered garrote up does it affect that garrote?

[balmy condor]

yes

[weary badger]

Cool

[fallow otter]

Snapshots are rip

Which I like

[weary badger]

So rotation would be

Garr > rup > garr > vend > mutilate > 6 CP rup > Exsang > BoTE > Mutilate envenom spam > vanish > double Garrote > 6 cp rup > mutilate envenom spam

[fallow otter]

Checked out Raz's guide?

[balmy condor]

close

not quite

you would want to vendetta before that first mutilate

and then vanish gar rup gar

if you have enough haste there would be a CT in there

[calm summit]

Do all the sin rogue dagger appearances sheath on your back?

[balmy condor]

yes

[calm summit]

Nice

[weary badger]

Vend before mutilate? Or after

[balmy condor]

before

[weary badger]

I find usually before the mutilate envenom spam i have max energy which feels like i'm doing sth wrong

[balmy condor]

that happens

with as much haste as we have

you'll cap in your opener

[weary badger]

Ohh ok

[oblique smelt]

i swear some daggers sheath on your side

[weary badger]

Ok so on vanish would be garr > rup > garr also then do i mutilate into a 6 cp rup again? Or leave that rup

[balmy condor]

you would vanish with 3 cp

[weary badger]

And go straight into envenoms

[balmy condor]

or you let that rupture tick into pandemic and then refresh

whichever you prefer

[weary badger]

Oh right

[daring urchin]

@daring urchin do you know if you are 1.5min or 2m vend?
@fallow otter 2m, but we got in burst fase only once lol

[oblique smelt]

@calm summit some sheath on your side

[balmy condor]

whack

all of mine are on my back

but I'm also not a #transmog god

so

[oblique smelt]

it's a TBC dagger so maybe just new daggers or something

[calm summit]

Can you still get the magekiller appearances?

[balmy condor]

mage killer?

[oblique smelt]

Mage tower appearences are gone now

[balmy condor]

you mean the mage tower?

no

[calm summit]

Ah bummer

[balmy condor]

but also #transmog still

[weary badger]

Void elf so secksy

[oblique smelt]

Anyone know when Expedient 3 comes up again btw?

[balmy condor]

https://corruptionvendor.com/

8/11

[oblique smelt]

yo thats sick

[balmy condor]

wowhead has them listed by corruption if you prefer a different view

[oblique smelt]

Nah this will do nicely

Got a new ring from weekly cache that i wanna put one on

[balmy condor]

475 mecha ring pog

[oblique smelt]

ye haste proc

[balmy condor]

gz

[weary badger]

Wow RP3 is expensive

[balmy condor]

7800?

not that bad

its based on how much corruption it fills

[weary badger]

Oh so price per corrupts are same throughout

[balmy condor]

well

not quite

but higher corruption pieces are more expensive

[weary badger]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dcbrKYJ1QvdQHxBingKq5N

My 430 belt with socket keeps simming higher than the 470

Is socket so stronk

[balmy condor]

yeah

[fathom swift]

it's the corruption not the socket

[balmy condor]

corruption is good too

[strange python]

the corruption on both is different

[balmy condor]

sockets are good though

[weary badger]

HM3 better than DM3?

[balmy condor]

yeah

usually at least

[fathom swift]

a socket isnt 40 ilevels

[balmy condor]

I'm sure you can find a situation where DM3 is better

who said it was

[fathom swift]

what you said earlier basically implied that

[balmy condor]

very implied

doesn't matter

its a mixture of the corruption and the gem is the point

[oblique smelt]

Put a socket on the 470 and it will be like a 510 item

[balmy condor]

god fucking damnit

[weary badger]

Haaha

[balmy condor]

walking on ice every time I open my mouth

[fallow otter]

Most daggers go on your side, it's the legendary ones that go on your back mostly

[balmy condor]

BuT wHiSpYr U sAiD

[weary badger]

U determine how we build our roguess

[balmy condor]

iF i OvErAnAlYzE eVeRy LeTtEr

iTs AcTuAlLy 40

[oblique smelt]

Doesn't it get tiring typing like that

[strange python]

is whispyrs new assa foreverguy

[fallow otter]

Did you say anal

[balmy condor]

I'm the guy who sits in chat helping every person that comes in here

and then randomly throughout the day someone waddles in and goes "but you said and implied and acktchually"

[oblique smelt]

Not the hero we deserve but the need we hero or something like that

[balmy condor]

is that what happens to foreverguy?

not a hero, but the need to want to have

[fathom swift]

why you tryna take it out on me when its what you said

[balmy condor]

its not just you

this happens semi-regularly

I just get frustrated

cause that's not what I said

I said yes, and then added on by saying the corruption is good

and you jumped on the yes like a hound

I could've worded it better to start

sure

we can agree on that

but cmon man

[strange python]

realize there's more than 20k people on this discord and you cant help everyone

[fathom swift]

ya fuckin gotcha

[balmy condor]

got me real good

breaking news whispyr doesn't word good

and honestly there may be 74,374 people in the discord

but I only have to help like a dozen or two a day

its really not that bad

[fallow otter]

and you jumped on the yes like a hound
@balmy condor sounds familiar

[balmy condor]

now on expac launch tho

that's gonna be a mess

[fathom swift]

patch days are always the worst

[balmy condor]

these days tho, pretty chill

[fallow otter]

Looking forward to the show increase of people asking what covenant is best, months before SL is out

[balmy condor]

infexious will make a guide dw

or the better thing

we find out which covenant is hype

and then 9.0.5 comes out

and nerfs it

and there will be a torrent of 2000 people in this chat going

COVENANT DEAD GUYS WHERE DO WE GO ITS NERFED INTO THE GROUND UNUSABLE

gonna be a disaster

[loud light]

don't worry they said it'll be cheap to switch covenants if you never switch back

[balmy condor]

fixed

[loud light]

(this probably means releveling renown/ soulbind progress though)

[main forge]

can we have a pin that says... its too early to tell... or a !shadowlands

[balmy condor]

that's a good question

@shrewd night put it on the to-do list

that's a great suggestion

[oblique smelt]

People would never ask questions like that months before shadowlands tho

[balmy condor]

bruh

[main forge]

I mean there hasn't been a balance or tuning pass at all. Rogues honestly haven't been touched but thats beside the point... and we may not have a firm grasp of until 1 month before release

[balmy condor]

we already had "which spec is best"

like 3 weeks ago

when sin was missing a talent

people will ALWAYS ask questions like that

[main forge]

They have been since alpha has been out

[oblique smelt]

Yea i was being sarcastic

[main forge]

shh man you got to add the /s

doesn't count otherwise

[balmy condor]

sarcasm hard

[oblique smelt]

oh so that's what /s means

[balmy condor]

no it means /say

btw /s

[main forge]

its from old school html ... to do like italics in text, you would do <i> test</i>

[oblique smelt]

I just really hope they bring Kingsbane back in some way

was sick

[balmy condor]

big doubt

[main forge]

I almost came back to play legion... I probably should have, told it was really good

I just hope they have choices that don't pigeon hole us, and/or that are easily to work around

[balmy condor]

they could bring it back as a legendary

but considering kingsbane is a button

and legendaries usually don't do that

it's pretty unlikely

[main forge]

we have had a few "on use" items though

[balmy condor]

yeah

[oblique smelt]

Just let me have hope

[balmy condor]

but those are like end-expac lego's

[main forge]

I hope they have some odd ball ones that you can collect... like "tricks of the trade" gives you 50 energy and increases dps of your target by 10%

[balmy condor]

oh god pls no

[oblique smelt]

i was just about to say why would you want to increase the damage of a boss, but yea i guess something like that could work

[main forge]

thats dumb idea, but something that is not "usual"

[balmy condor]

trick is on a friendly target

[oblique smelt]

Yea that's what i realized

i could see them bring back legion bracers

for some execute

[balmy condor]

I think bracers and boots are back for sure

[main forge]

An execute legendary would be neat

[balmy condor]

would be troll to not bring back those 2 imo

players like them, they were decently interesting, and they already made them

[main forge]

I hate adding another button with slice and nice coming back

[balmy condor]

slice and nice

idk, I don't mind snd tbh

like I get why people don't like it

but personally I don't mind

[main forge]

I just hope it has some interaction besides "increases melee haste"

[balmy condor]

I'm used to wod sub with hemo and rupture and slice and dice and find weakness

[main forge]

and uses a global

[oblique smelt]

Would be cool if it interacted with things more

[balmy condor]

I really liked that

[main forge]

I am not sure what... but something

[oblique smelt]

Could work well with Kingsbane

Apply poisons faster

[balmy condor]

the most interesting design I came up with while thinking

was a sort of combo point generation thing

like you get a fake combo point that gets used on your next finished every 10 seconds or something

similar to something like anticipation

but its definitely hard

I was also thinking of something like envenom cleaves with it active

would help the aoe part

[main forge]

or maybe have it empower the next finisher

on a % basiss

[balmy condor]

I thought of that too, but since snd is like a 45 second buff or whatever

the whole 'next' finisher is pretty big whatever

like you could make it empower ruptures right

but it quickly becomes less interesting imo

[main forge]

say average of say one empowered finisher every 15s

[oblique smelt]

quickly turning in to Savage Roar

[balmy condor]

cause it either turns into a flat % gain

yeah maybe

regardless

snd is pretty boring

[main forge]

yeah, it needs something is all i want

like it was fine in vanilla, to wrath, because there wasn't much else to do... the rotation and it was simpler times

[green basalt]

but I only have to help like a dozen or two a day
@balmy condor

And we thank you for it❣

[balmy condor]

no u

[green basalt]

22 runs to get the overclock ring hyyyype!

[balmy condor]

not even that bad

ez grind

:)

[weary badger]

Is ashvane's razor coral the best trinket to have ? Seems highest on most guide charts

[green basalt]

Yup! Wont step foot in ws for a while now 😫

[weary badger]

@green basalt cant even get into groups to farm ring

Haha

[green basalt]

Did my first +20 today aswell

As assa!

[balmy condor]

@weary badger coral is not the best

[green basalt]

@green basalt cant even get into groups to farm ring
@weary badger

Yeah had alot of declines to

[balmy condor]

gz on the +20 btw

god gamer

[green basalt]

Thanks was rough

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean tyran +20

[green basalt]

Kings rest 💩

[balmy condor]

kinda monkas

a kings rest as well

jeez

[spice spire]

Actual god gamer

[balmy condor]

you really hate yourself

and that's your first 20?

ridiculous

[green basalt]

Gotta push it man!

[balmy condor]

yeah but not this week you lunatic

[green basalt]

Yeah we timed alot of 17s 18s 19s today and thought heck why not try a +20

😂

Got the worm aswell for timing all +15 was a good day today even tho it was aclose call on the shrine +17

[fallow otter]

@balmy condor you know anything about how the slapper sin build does bosses?

[balmy condor]

like hivemind?

hivemind double slapper sin is kinda legit

you fok on 2 anyway

[fallow otter]

I assumed they used for m plus that's why I was confused

[balmy condor]

so with slappers, since it disables mutilate, you would just fok

an dits fine

oh no

[fallow otter]

But hivemind makes way more sense

[balmy condor]

in m+ that's fucked

actually cursed

[fallow otter]

Yeh hence the question

[balmy condor]

I've seen it on hive

I've seen it on vex less so

I've seen it on some really meme m+ where its just giga pull everything into the boss

[fallow otter]

Be a bunch of downtime on our vex

[balmy condor]

but its definitely not great

[fallow otter]

Wouldn't be worth

[balmy condor]

yeah probably not

[fallow otter]

Also last phase?

[balmy condor]

I saw some people trying it

[fallow otter]

Sounds shit

Hivemind tho

[balmy condor]

Its barely viable on hive

[fallow otter]

Sounds interesting

But I would need to get our fire mages to sit

[balmy condor]

and your DH's

and any UH DK's

just tell your raid you solo drones

[fallow otter]

Yeah probs to much effort for very little

If anything

Is double slapper proc rate haste scaling

If so, then I can see the point I guess

[balmy condor]

I don't think so

but you wouldn't go haste if you're going slappers

you'd lose out on so much EB/fok damage

its kinda weird because by going haste you're actually making your generators worse

[fallow otter]

Yeah

[warped siren]

should I be using focused resolve instead of unbridled fury for prepot? how big of a difference is it if im running exsang?

[balmy condor]

focused resolve is definitely the go to

[low girder]

depends, run the sim but generally around 400 dps for me

between the two

[balmy condor]

yeah I see about 500 on mine

[warped siren]

yeah I just started getting the sims to tell me to use that

[low girder]

it's not enormous or anything but it is better

[warped siren]

maybe thats the little bit more I need to get 99s lol

[low girder]

just don't forget and hit the wrong pot on vex like i did 🙃

[warped siren]

gotta pop those str pots when needed!

[low girder]

it literally does nothing if you're dotting the add on pull lol

feels real bad

[warped siren]

Hahaha

[steel ridge]

I think its hilarious to use slappers for hive. I need to try that

As soon as i get hands on a second one :/

[low girder]

i still haven't even gotten a first one, at least at mythic level

maybe this week

[steel ridge]

I havent had a single try on mythic raden yet

[low girder]

i got two carapace daggers before i've seen one mythic fist

maybe the universe is trying to tell me something

[steel ridge]

Same on heroic for me

[fallow otter]

I can try it Wednesday but tbh, our cleave gonna make it hard to work

[steel ridge]

2 daggers first 2 kills

I want to do it for the lulz

[fallow otter]

i got two carapace daggers before i've seen one mythic fist
@low girder that's toxic, it took me 3 months

[low girder]

i mean, i did suffer through nzoth extensions before i got the first one lol

[steel ridge]

Our mythic raid struggles with attendance, every other week it’s canceled

[low girder]

i actually got 2 last week and gave one to the other rogue

rather than keep for another set lol

bonus roll was very kind

penance for the like 3 total fists we've seen after 10 raden kills or whatever

[steel ridge]

That Fist is so rare its crazy, no way it has the same droprate as the trinkets

[low girder]

eh, knew a guy who didn't get a dagger throughout all of BoD

rng gonna rng

[steel ridge]

Personal loot can be a bitch

[fallow otter]

eh, knew a guy who didn't get a dagger throughout all of BoD
@low girder yep this is my luck every tier, account is cursed

Outlaw luck not bad but sin loot is cursed

Specifically daggers

[raven locust]

Took me 7 weeks to get a single dagger from Eternal Palace, bad luck feels pretty awful

[fallow otter]

Cache is cursed, My Azerite luck though, can't complain

[raven locust]

I've had some decent caches, my corruption luck was pretty atrocious. I didn't see a single Expedient, Severe, Gushing or Stars drop for me till the Vendor

[tropic burrow]

For those running SS+Exp3 build have you tried experimenting on openers with Gar, gar, rup instead of gar, rup, gar?

[fallow otter]

Why

[drifting cosmos]

Lost 1 sec in gar straightaway

[balmy condor]

that's just straight damage lost

instantly

[drifting cosmos]

Kinda big when it's empowered

[tropic burrow]

But you get better dmg in rup, no?

[balmy condor]

no

you don't

[raven locust]

Rupture damage isn't much compared to Garrote even if it did

[balmy condor]

you would need to overwrite a 6cp rup with another 6cp rup later

its just a disaster

it gets worse

the more I think the less I want to

[drifting cosmos]

No rup dmg doesn't scale with cp only time does

[balmy condor]

^

[tropic burrow]

And do you use exangui with empowered garotte or

[balmy condor]

tick damage is consistent

yes you exsang the empowered garrotes

that's the big burst

opener is in the guide in the pins

[fallow otter]

The rupture isn't there for damage at that point and it's going to hit the same timer once you stack a 6 pointer on it

[tropic burrow]

Ahh ok. Thx for the input!

Also anyone using Ashvane razor coral maybe?

[balmy condor]

coral

not anymore

[tropic burrow]

Plummage then?

[balmy condor]

you can sim it

plumage is the better option probably

[shell ivy]

Aight I just did my first raid as bleed assa, felt so fucking good to have good ST dps compared to my outlaw experience 🤤 although I might be inting a little bit since after all my opener burst I just drop super low until next big cds, idk if its normal

[tropic burrow]

Or the gladiators medalion?

[balmy condor]

yeah glad medallion is same thing

@shell ivy that's normal

[shell ivy]

I see, great then😝

I’m just more used to consistent dps as outlaw

[low girder]

@fallow otter i'm the opposite, i never got a 2nd folly until after azshara was dead too lol

or maybe i never did? idk, been a while, i forget now

[shrewd night]

@balmy condor wdym the command has been live for a couple of days already (pls moroes dont make me look bad)

!sl

[prisma monolith]

Mystlers Shadowlands Notes: http://tiny.cc/p8ljsz

[shrewd night]

Oh

Close enough

[balmy condor]

Nice orange name

[shrewd night]

Think we got some additions in the making as well

[balmy condor]

Bot needs fixing dude

Get koji on it he knows how to code

[fallow otter]

!pepega

Yep completely broken, confirmed

[shrewd night]

Bruh if you even think Im coding moroes you need a reality check

[normal olive]

!

[shrewd night]

Imagine letting a koffing do practical koding work

I DONT HAVE HANDS

[balmy condor]

That’s why I said koji

Take the eye patch off

Clearly blind

But like who actually codes moroes

Aethys?

[shrewd night]

Yall are killing me man

fuu is the designated robotics guy

[balmy condor]

Aha

So what you’re saying is you provide nothing to the team and you’re just around to make a fool of yourself cause you can’t read

Got it

Kinda toxic I feel bad @shrewd night I still love you bb

Out of all the orange names, you’re the most.... round....

[dire spoke]

[lone junco]

!affixes

[prisma monolith]

Affixes: Tyrannical, Bursting, Necrotic, Awakened

[fallow otter]

It's push week in a few hours

That's what the answer should have been

[balmy condor]

EU gets to suffer another day

[normal olive]

just wanted to disagree but US get's reset earlier

[weary badger]

!upcomingaffixes

[balmy condor]

Affixes: Fortified, Sanguine, Quaking, Awakened

Me moroes me bot

[normal olive]

thanks good bot

[balmy condor]

:-)

Beep boop lettuce

[weary badger]

Thank u sir

[balmy condor]

:) no problem

[tropic ocean]

3 push weeks in 6 weeks not bad

[fallow otter]

@balmy condor trip EB for this hivemind shenanigans?

[royal lantern]

If you wanna feel cool byr beeing higher in the meters,ye you can do it

But not really effective,you could just play outlaw then

[fallow otter]

Yeah im not going to bother our cleave too strong anyway, no point but I'm still interested

[royal lantern]

Darters>reavers>bosses

Thats pretty much all you do on hivemind tbh

[crimson palm]

2x slappers 3x eb is the way

[royal lantern]

And dodge the rolling ones

[patent topaz]

corruption makes many bosses including hivemind a meme

[tropic ocean]

playing eb on hivemind is

inting

you do equal dmg with raidbuild while not lowering your dps on the mobs that are important

[shrewd night]

EB was "good" during prog, but now that we have optimized gear and corruptions, duo bleeding the bosses just straight wins

[crimson palm]

not if you misinform your raid that the small shits dont count for logs so nobody pads on them and they live longer than few sec

works only once though

[green basalt]

EU gets to suffer another day
@balmy condor

Its not that bad 😂

[floral shoal]

After timing our second 20 yesterday tonight is Shrine 21 weekly no leaver. Looking forward to the hurt actually :)

[dull crypt]

Gonna progress Drest this Sunday, do you reckon best choice for boss damage is BotE major and VoP minor? With the whole 1.3 min cd thing

[green basalt]

I run breath on that fight as major sniping like a pro

[dull crypt]

That's more useful for debuffed adds than the boss though right

We haven't touched the boss yet so I have no clue how much we'll struggle with adds over boss

[dusky moon]

So m+ question.. currently using 7x Severe III

should I get some Strikethroughs instead?

[plain thistle]

for sure, thats overkill

most people use 2-3 severes and rest strike

[normal olive]

how much crit do you get with 7 servers

[dusky moon]

72% unbuffed

[normal olive]

[plain thistle]

[ruby kestrel]

You want to keep them more even if possible

[dusky moon]

buffed like 150+

[normal olive]

that seems like such a huge waste

[plain thistle]

waste for sure

[shadow wedge]

150

[ruby kestrel]

Yeah I think like 45-50 is enough for crit, strikethrough will be more efficient

[odd heath]

you really want to crit heh mate?

[normal olive]

with 150 you can crit them in shadowlands before the expac is even out

[dusky moon]

Well, i ran a few sims (5x patchwerk, 90 sec, no buffs), there's not much difference in overall dps.. maybe 1-1.5% if i swap 4 severe with strike

[ruby kestrel]

Well 5 is probably close but if there are more than 5 you'll start overcapping combo points like crazy and that's where it is less effective imo

I mean definatly sim it, but that's what I would expect. And as you get to higher keys you'll want to hit more than 5 on a lot of pulls

[odd heath]

sim 10 tgt 40s also

[dusky moon]

311k all severe, 328k 3sev+4strike

okay, i guess 25 visions do to

[strange python]

you dont like visions? 8)

[normal olive]

visions are great content what are you talking about

[strange python]

Same tbh

[normal olive]

[strange python]

who needs to play m+ or raids when you can do visions and dailies!

[ruby kestrel]

I mean it depends on how much you care about that last 5% damage. I'd say for sure get strikethrough over more severe but I would never do 25 more visions at this point xD

I'd just do more m+ with what you have and get echos that way

[sturdy cargo]

anyone tested assa rogue in SL? how's it looking so far?

[ruby kestrel]

Missing talents, no legos and no conduits or soul binds last time I saw...so everyone else is in beta, were still pre alpha (unless it was added today)

[sturdy cargo]

LOL

I casually read our covenants, I fell like maldraxxus infinite bleed might be BiS first tier

specially if we have fights with adds

council fights with that spell will be awesome

[main warren]

what missing talents

[normal olive]

The Vanish one from Night Fae sounds pretty good too

[main warren]

Outlaw has a missing talent but I don't think assass did

[normal olive]

Assa had all talents i believe

[ruby kestrel]

Oh yeah you guys are right it is outlaw that still is missing talents

[sturdy cargo]

I just hope venthyr ain't the best, it's the most boring one by far

[normal olive]

Oh and didn't the bonespike ability get removed?

[sturdy cargo]

shut upp no way

that seemed so fun

[normal olive]

I think i read that the maldraxus one got removed to get changed

anyone know more then me?

[sturdy cargo]

fuckkk

[plain thistle]

or maybe a error in the datamining?

hopefully its wrong, because thats the only cool covenant skill

[main warren]

they saw pikaboo gaping people with it

[normal olive]

Night Fae is