assassination

[balmy condor]

click on someone

then go to replay

should look like this

now select the person you want to follow from the raid on the bottom right

[strange python]

ive literally never done this before. this is neat

[balmy condor]

hit play and you're off to the races

[plucky shadow]

oh sick

this helps a lot

[lone junco]

we use that during prog, to make sure our positioning isnt stupid.

[balmy condor]

its pretty great

[lone junco]

can watch a fight mechanic, and watch where the player goes/does

[grave marsh]

Hey new assassination rogue here. I have been watching Infexious Gaming videos and I noticed he has a moving rotation add on/wa. Anyone know what it is/called?

[balmy condor]

a what now

that's probably details streamer tools

[lone junco]

probably something like hekili. I am hard against those for mains.

[balmy condor]

tells you what he just cast

he doesn't use hekili

[lone junco]

trufi gcd, just lists the things they press.

[balmy condor]

infexious does a lot of dumb shit

but he doesn't use a rotation helper

[lone junco]

just for stream review. Like what did I do here.

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's what I'm guessing as well

its a good streamer tool

[grave marsh]

Ok thanks! Is heliki worth using for a new rogue?

[balmy condor]

no

[lone junco]

but rotational tools like kekiliy say press this, press that, press this. Is garbage for rogue mains imo., (except maybe ret/enhance).

[balmy condor]

its not worth using on anything

90% of the time it'll teach you wrong habits

[grave marsh]

Ok thanks

[vital haven]

i use it

[balmy condor]

you're better off just sitting on a dummy for a little bit

[lone junco]

if you want to play rogue right, use a proper opener.

[vital haven]

its helpful

[balmy condor]

get out nairda XD

[vital haven]

LOL

what are we talking about

[balmy condor]

rotation helpers

[vital haven]

as whispyr said

target dummy

goes a long way

[grave marsh]

K

[lone junco]

being able to actually read a log, and what you should be pressing

[grave marsh]

How vital is 3xss for bleed build?

[balmy condor]

its not vital vital

but its good to have

you can get away with 2, or even 1

depending on your gear

but it's obviously not ideal

[lone junco]

Probably wont be running CT then. but still good to learn assassin basics like Subterfuge, vanish, exang.

[balmy condor]

a lot of the undergeared sims I look at are like 1x SS 2x DD or something janky like that

[lone junco]

or tb.

[balmy condor]

and it works fine

but yeah

you'll need some haste to make exsang work

and CT is out of the question for now

[grave marsh]

Yeah I got my rogue some gear and I have 2xss. Working on getting some sockets atm. Sitting at 65% haste so far

[vital haven]

thats good enough for ct

[balmy condor]

you what

[vital haven]

sim it

[balmy condor]

I thought you said new rogue

yeah

that's pretty high

[grave marsh]

I am new to rogue. But the rng god loves me

[balmy condor]

yeah apparently so

that's a lot of exped

[sterile lodge]

Should I listen to sim on poison bomb vs CT?

[balmy condor]

yes

poison bomb garbo

if you can get rid of it

do it

asap

[sterile lodge]

It's telling me almost +2k with poison bomb

[vital haven]

why the hate for PB

[balmy condor]

do you have a TTK trait

PB is a trash talent

[grave marsh]

Yeah I’ve had him at 120 and been grinding wq and weekly assaults and stuff to keep him relevant so when expedient popped up last week I got quite a few of them

[vital haven]

ye ct is kind of the only interesting end talent

[balmy condor]

PB procs

[sterile lodge]

I have a TTK trait

[balmy condor]

you pull the boss out of it

yeah there's your problem

CT is disabled in the APL with a TTK trait

you're stuck with PB forever

get rid of the irontide homeboy

:P

[sterile lodge]

😢

If I can get Gibbering maw yeah

[balmy condor]

yeah irontide is a very common thing people get stuck with

and then they're like "but my CT?"

I see it constantly

[sterile lodge]

So I should be on CT then right?

[grave marsh]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uLJJYnPp4nD2Bwwg33tZBn

[balmy condor]

if you take the TTK off you'll probably be higher with CT yes

[sterile lodge]

Ok I'll test i out

[balmy condor]

you can just run a top gear with it

or gear compare, grab the gibbering from that and sim with that

and see what happens

or give me the sim if I lost you in that and I'll run it for you

@grave marsh you have a question about that sim?

[sterile lodge]

You're right, it sims higher with dagger in the back

[balmy condor]

yuh

using CT is more damage than not using CT

sim god

[grave marsh]

Maybe what I can gear towards to get higher. What I should focus on. Kinda new to simming

[balmy condor]

your azerite is a bit of a mess

you should be getting mecha rings

and you should find a replacement for the dragonscale

quick sim doesn't really do much in terms of gearing

it's good to see damage breakdowns and some rotational gimmicks

but generally for gear stuff you'll use either top gear or gear compare

with some droptimizer mixed in

[ripe gulch]

you guys prefer using plumage or galecallers?

[balmy condor]

I'm a big fan of galecallers

[ripe gulch]

use it with exsang always right?

[balmy condor]

but plumage is much easier to use, and more versatile

[ripe gulch]

nice one lul

[balmy condor]

I tell that one every day

and I still love it

anyway

[ripe gulch]

hahaha you do you man

[balmy condor]

you don't line up the off-casts

the 2 min casts with vendetta you cast it before exsang

the in-between one's you just use on cd

[grave marsh]

So what is messed with my Azerite @balmy condor ?

[balmy condor]

stygian is kinda eh

you have the same TTK/CT issue I was talking about earlier

your shoulders could be better

and your chest has NP, which isn't very good

[grave marsh]

Ok so maybe helm from raden would be better

[balmy condor]

yeah you can sim that

that's what top gear/gear compare is for

[grave marsh]

Ok ima try and figure it out. Thanks a lot!

[balmy condor]

np feel free to dm me if you get lost

[grave marsh]

Sweet ty

[young dust]

How does the corruption from the carapace's dagger (twisted appendage I think) compares to Exp in both raid and M+?

[balmy condor]

its more rng

[young dust]

Just asking because I don't trust the dungeon slice simulator

[balmy condor]

and you'll probably end up cleansing for exp for raids

if you're going a crit build in m+, you would want to keep the TA over the exped

but TA in m+ kinda blows

so you would purify for a severe/strike

if you're not going a crit build in m+, and you're sticking with the haste build, you'd want to again cleanse and go exped

cause that's how that works

[young dust]

since I already have 3SS/3HOD and I think I will cleanse for exp

[balmy condor]

so the tldr is basically cleanse for exped

[lethal heart]

@gusty kestrel

what is high sim

help

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vXagcZm1kSdQBxCwqj6uuq

[lone junco]

That's big.

[balmy condor]

99 neck

kaite's a fucking maniac

[lethal heart]

thats pretty ok

but gcb

that sounds like a bit of a bait

[balmy condor]

gcb is pog

idk man

[lethal heart]

if you can stand still maybe yea

[balmy condor]

a majority of gale's damage from hitting exsang while in it

and if you can't stand in that circle for 2-3 globals

then I can't help you man

[lethal heart]

does it holt exsang for gcb?

hold*

[balmy condor]

no

you can macro it to vendetta like you would plumage

and then cast on cd in between

and that's basically it

imo people get really hung up on "bUt ThE CiRcLe YoU hAvE tO StAnD"

its really not that bad

[lethal heart]

annoying

idk how big that is

never simmed gcb because i dont have one anyway

[balmy condor]

my 475 gcb is like 1200 over a 465 plumage

I think a 465 gcb is more like 900

but Idk

I don't need to sim a 465 gcb

its pretty noticable though

[naive lynx]

does some1 know the Overclocking Bit Band proc haste values by ilvl?

[balmy condor]

wowhead should

its a little bugged tho

[lethal heart]

it increase

s

[naive lynx]

truee

[balmy condor]

465 is 191

[naive lynx]

thanks 😄

[balmy condor]

460 is 186

[lethal heart]

475 is like 6 more haste

[balmy condor]

I think

[naive lynx]

I see it on wowhead

ty

[balmy condor]

np

[lethal heart]

im simming myself

but its such a pain in the ass

xd

probably same

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Jd3upC3nRthGf8aKyoEWp

[lapis spindle]

Hello, for Assassination PvP, is it better to take the Engineering glasses with twist the knife etc or the helmet with Shrouded Suffocation twist the knife, etc ?
In 2v2, 3v3 and Outdoor PvP
And also, is it worth to take Focusing Iris instead of vision ? I am 9x Gushing wound and 476 with 20 % haste 27 % versality

[patent topaz]

475 plumage and mecha rings

[lethal heart]

i had 475 pvp trinket aswell

i think

somewhere

[balmy condor]

#pvp @lapis spindle

[lapis spindle]

Nobody answering me for like 2 days

[balmy condor]

[lapis spindle]

meh

[balmy condor]

this is pve hero channel

[lapis spindle]

kk

[balmy condor]

I would help if I could

but me no pvp

[sharp ginkgo]

is opener for bleed bulid gar>rup>gar>Vendetta?????? or gar>rup>gar>mut>rup>Vendetta?

[balmy condor]

the second

[sharp ginkgo]

ive seen in a guide and in a video the first opener......its been like a month since then...reasons for the change

?

[balmy condor]

well

[sharp ginkgo]

just thinking about the numbers

[balmy condor]

the second one isn't really correct either

but you get the second rupture in

which pandemics off the first

which is the whole idea

[sharp ginkgo]

yes

[balmy condor]

there's a guide in the pins by raz that has the openers laid out visually as well

it hasn't really changed though

we've changed from TB to exsang, which changed the opener

[sharp ginkgo]

im actually referring to that guide

[balmy condor]

but the exsang opener has been consistent

yeah so you g r g ven mut r ex bote

as the full thing

[sharp ginkgo]

yes as i have been doing but a rogue in my guild and i just asked infectious and infectious did have to think about it but said gar>rup>gar>mut>rup>vendetta and then of course the rest

im just going to get on a dummy and find out

[balmy condor]

don't listen to infexious

listen to the guide

[sharp ginkgo]

and im going to do the math

but yeah id rather listen to the guide

like you say

[balmy condor]

I doubt your math will be better than what has been simulated and tested by theorycrafters

in all honesty

[sharp ginkgo]

but infexious even in his video says in the opener gar>rup>gar>vendetta

so he contradicted himself

[balmy condor]

there's a lot of things he does :)

[sharp ginkgo]

probably not

[balmy condor]

just follow the guide, its been tested

and simulated to death

[sharp ginkgo]

yeah that is my plan i just like simple math because sometimes simple math on gar uptime makes it obv and i like to see

either or guide is trusted in any case

[balmy condor]

the reason you gar - rup - gar

is you get the full garrote right

and then vendetta right after

[sharp ginkgo]

is extension

pandemic

[balmy condor]

to buff the longest duration

if you vendetta later

[sharp ginkgo]

yeah that def is my thinking

[balmy condor]

the damage buff from vendetta doesn't affect the first couple ticks

that's why we vendetta early

[sharp ginkgo]

okay i ppreciate the advice

[balmy condor]

no problem

[normal olive]

But what about my openers

[balmy condor]

navi don't do this to me man

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

I already have to struggle with people showing up quoting infexious

[sharp ginkgo]

lmfao

hey infectious in his video had it right

[balmy condor]

I mean the opener sure

but that video has more issues with it

[sharp ginkgo]

explain

[balmy condor]

its been memed and attacked to death

but the big one is his weird 34% crit claim

that doesn't exist

[plucky shadow]

is it worth putting expedient 3 on this?

[balmy condor]

yes

that's pog

[zinc echo]

yup

[strange python]

I got one of those myself from the chest

It's the best

[plucky shadow]

better then cara mythic/

[balmy condor]

no

[sharp ginkgo]

so crit doesnt matter?

[balmy condor]

no that's also not true

[sharp ginkgo]

just go all haste?

[balmy condor]

crit is important

[strange python]

I mean are you gonna down cara mythic

[plucky shadow]

progressing cara mythic now

and only have 1 exp 3 in bag

[balmy condor]

34% is just a number that doesn't have anything to back it up

infexious guides are basically just the guides the theorycrafters in this discord write

[zinc echo]

Maybe he confused himself with a frost mage?

[normal olive]

with 29 stacks of Blood-soaked i reach 34% crit

[balmy condor]

but he adds random facts and tips that don't have any basis on reality

and haven't been tested

tosses that into a video, clickbaits it

and that's the thing

its like he takes a hamburger, dunks it into some water, and hands it back to you

[plucky shadow]

I really like the vids where he's explaining when to pop cd's and which essences to use

[strange python]

I love myself a nice waterburger

[balmy condor]

like yes, its a hamburger

but its a soggy ass hamburger

[sharp ginkgo]

so just sim?

[balmy condor]

correct

[strange python]

First time I've used that emote

I feel like a real community member now boys

[balmy condor]

O

big pog

one of us

[strange python]

Whispyr what, if any, helm should i buy

[balmy condor]

yes

[strange python]

i have 465 ra den

[balmy condor]

buy them all

become a hoarder

[strange python]

are any better

[balmy condor]

not really

[strange python]

until 480 ra den

[crimson palm]

I really like the vids where he's explaining when to pop cd's and which essences to use
@plucky shadow if he knew that himself his rank wouldn't be in triple digits

[balmy condor]

helms are pretty disastrous this patch

[strange python]

yeah i looked them over but none looked appealing

[balmy condor]

irontide can sim higher

but then you lose CT

and that's usually not worth

[strange python]

so im stuck with 465 til my guild gits gud

[balmy condor]

yep basically

stygian off mythic maut is okay

that's usable

but its not ideal

[strange python]

already vendored like 2 of those

[balmy condor]

yeah

don't worry bout that

465 gibbering doesn't have any clear replacements

its all like sidegrades or weird minor ups

[strange python]

my poor ilvl

[sharp ginkgo]

no 480s are better than 465 gibbering?

[balmy condor]

480 gibbering is better than 465 gibbering

[strange python]

[sharp ginkgo]

i kind of just came back about to kill m raden, very very behind

[balmy condor]

my bnet just went orange on my taskbar but I didn't have a notification or anything

[strange python]

its ion

he's coming for you

[balmy condor]

telling me to stfu about our azerite problems

[plucky shadow]

My dmg drops significantly in P2 on mythic carapace any tips here?

[balmy condor]

play a different class

you don't take a sin rogue cause they're good damage on growths

we're boss damage that's pretty much it

sin rogue target swapping is pretty garbage

[crimson palm]

Ur 2nd vendetta is used on growths

[balmy condor]

yeah but that doesn't mean we got good damage on them now does it

p2 damage always drops

[crimson palm]

Yes it does mean we get good damage on them

[balmy condor]

just a fact of life

[crimson palm]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Pq7pFyTkQ9JmNgnz#fight=35&type=damage-done&target=179

[balmy condor]

hm

that's pretty good

I'm surprised the hunters aren't dunking

well

guess I'm wrong then

pop cds if they'll last a while

and pump

[patent topaz]

if you solo the far away ones you do damage but it really depends, you dont want sides to not finish at the same time

[balmy condor]

yeah

if you get on ones that you're group isn't on, its pretty cool

the one's im on just get smashed

[rancid bobcat]

well yeah

thats why he cloaks and sprints forward to molest the 3 in the back

[balmy condor]

yeah

[rancid bobcat]

before anyone else can get to them

just do that

[balmy condor]

don't trust my healers enough to range like that honestly

but probably should

hemo's logs are pretty sick though

put me in my place

[patent topaz]

if you want logs you do that, but you might fuck up the sides as I said

[balmy condor]

ye

6:25 cara kill is also a little nutty

[patent topaz]

we do BL on pull strat

I didnt pop cds in p2

5:36 kill

[balmy condor]

[crimson palm]

It still lines up

[balmy condor]

my pp tiny

[crimson palm]

Lust on pull just makes the fight shorter, doesn't affect cd usage

[patent topaz]

I dont go back tumors in p2 so I dont use cds

then in last phase you can pop after pool and then at the end

but 5:36 is too short for that, needs to be closer to 6

[crimson palm]

Popping cds in p2 makes the phase shorter thus he heals less

Not worth holding

[patent topaz]

it literally has no effect if you are on the add most people are on

[crimson palm]

You can solo kill the 3 in the back

If mages are combusting the right stacked ones you should have no issues unless your guild is braindead

[patent topaz]

I know, I might call that next reset. Weve had issues with sides not dying evenly

[rancid bobcat]

does that mess up the sanity orbs

[patent topaz]

actually more wipes on cara than nzoth

[crimson palm]

Sanity

[rancid bobcat]

idk always seems to be an issue with my guild

[crimson palm]

Play orbs properly in p3

[rancid bobcat]

pretty sure we do

idk my guild just stays cautious still

[patent topaz]

people in p3 int the bombs for uptime usually

[rancid bobcat]

we have people who will come out p2 with 70 sanity for w/e reason

def not

[robust light]

havent done m+ as sin for a while. can someone update me on the aoe opener after 3x garrote into CT

[balmy condor]

are you 3x EB

[robust light]

when do i BoTE and do i just spam fok during the blood crit buff (1 EB)

no, just 1 at

atm

[balmy condor]

you want to finish with a rupture until you can sustain the energy

1eb is little messy

cause now you have to think about finishers imo

but generally the EB way is to only finish for EP

and spam fok otherwise

sustaining the bleeds for energy

[robust light]

alright

[ripe gulch]

should i do the opener like the sim tells me to?

it tells me to pre clf

before stealth

and i fucking hate it

[green moss]

why

[ripe gulch]

its clunky af

[balmy condor]

yeah that's ideal

but its difficult to pull off

[green moss]

if you have a raid that actually follows a pull timer it isn't lol

[balmy condor]

don't worry about it

[ripe gulch]

and when should i use blood vs clf

[green moss]

can it not be put into a macro? because I can stealth right after I press it

[ripe gulch]

i can but im used to shrouding before pull

[green moss]

ew

[ripe gulch]

xd

[balmy condor]

its still prone to fail

[ripe gulch]

the tanks get into position

[balmy condor]

even if your guild follows pull timers

not worth risking imo

[green moss]

hasn't failed me yet

[balmy condor]

its pretty minor

[green moss]

feels a lot smoother in the opener

[lapis spindle]

Assa seems to way to go in mm+ shadowlands to me

[green moss]

also clf vs blood is w/e sims higher pretty sure

[balmy condor]

in m+?

sin seems pretty garbage in m+ for shadowlands

unless I missed something

[ripe gulch]

i mean ofc clf is gonna sim higher always

but some fights you dont get to use 2

and u can use 2 bloods always

pretty much

its the cd

1.5 mins vs 3 mins

[balmy condor]

well the current question is pre-pull vs not prepull

and the difference is very small

[lapis spindle]

like

Atm assa does a lot of dmg in some m + keys

with crit corrup is like 2x more than outlaw

but in SL

[balmy condor]

[lapis spindle]

Outlaw wont have this opportunity to mass aoe

So I wonder

[balmy condor]

sin doesn't do double outlaw damage in any key

just btw

but that aside

[strange python]

Outlaw can hit up to what, 8 targets now? or is it

5

[balmy condor]

we're losing SS and EB

[lapis spindle]

Yes it does sometimes lol

[strange python]

in SL

[balmy condor]

and both of those are huge

show me any high key where sin doubles an outlaw rogue

[lapis spindle]

check him

https://raider.io/characters/us/azralon/Quietstep#season=season-bfa-4

[balmy condor]

@warped temple hey quick question, have you seen a sin rogue double outlaw damage in any key

[vast forum]

monkaW

he plays 2x EB in workshop and KR

[lapis spindle]

As assa rogue in MM+ you must have at least 3x Severe

and rest is SS

[vast forum]

lol

ok

[plain thistle]

lol

[balmy condor]

what are you talking about

I'm honestly confused my man

[lapis spindle]

I checked every assa mm+

[vast forum]

please, tell me where you even press FoK in workshop

[plain thistle]

and here I am playing without EB in m+

[strange python]

I mean the guy he linked is doing pretty high keys and seems to know his shit....

Do any of you guys do better?

[balmy condor]

don't start that hasu

[lapis spindle]

Tisu seems to do better no

Big mouth

[balmy condor]

this discord will tear you to shreds about that

[strange python]

lmao

[balmy condor]

but the point is

we're losing SS/EB

and we're losing corrupts

[strange python]

I mean I always see people shitting but never linking. I'm just curious

[balmy condor]

our aoe is going to blow chunks

[amber quail]

fast question: gushing wound work with some assa mechanichs?

[lapis spindle]

Yeah whatever

[balmy condor]

and its looking like we're not going to be good in shadowlands so far

[strange python]

I'm all about it

[balmy condor]

@amber quail no

[lapis spindle]

Putting Tisu on ignore btw

[harsh sphinx]

why not just run haste build in workshop/kr/temple

[vast forum]

the only situation where assa doubles outlaw's aoe is a 2 minute 15 target pull or something where outlaw is constantly out of blade flurry charges while we BRRRR with EB

[lapis spindle]

SO the point is is it better to take Severe x3 and rest SS like he did ? Like they all do ?

[vast forum]

depends on situation @lapis spindle

[lapis spindle]

Overall

[vast forum]

in workshop/KR/siege/junkyard/tos

[lapis spindle]

Cuz I checked them, and they all have Severe 3-4

[vast forum]

you play single target or you're inting

[balmy condor]

crit and severe stacking is good yes

[odd heath]

I like to play raid build on m+ as sin kekw

[vast forum]

what's kekw about that?

[lapis spindle]

it doesnt work

[harsh sphinx]

?

[vast forum]

it doesn't?

[warped temple]

i dont play tyrannical weeks and don't have anything setup for it. There are better builds for sure i don't disagree. It's just the way I play. not a "you have to do this or youre bad" sorta thing btw.

[lapis spindle]

Unfortunately

[vast forum]

damn, can you invalidate my keys then?

[plain thistle]

it does actually

[odd heath]

it does work

[vast forum]

it not only works

[balmy condor]

guys chill

[odd heath]

blasts tyranicall weeks

[vast forum]

but is generally better, apart from a few dungeons

[lapis spindle]

Just ignore this pleb

[lone junco]

woah.

[harsh sphinx]

how can you just say "it doesn't work"

[lapis spindle]

Because my damages sucked when I tried with haste

[harsh sphinx]

when there's plenty of evidence that supports it working

[vast forum]

i like people who go EB and spam fok on fear obelisk while their mage is combusting and then bragging about their overall dps

[lone junco]

and "work" are we talking 15, 20, 25, 28s?

[lapis spindle]

Link my evidence

[vast forum]

"my damages sucked"

[drifting cloud]

Maybe ur just bad

[vast forum]

maybe you're just bad at the game?

[lapis spindle]

Yeah sure hats why I do more damage with crit

[vast forum]

yes

because pressing fok

is easier than handling dots

[lapis spindle]

You know how to play sin in MM + ?$

[vast forum]

also, more damage doesn't mean more value

yes, i do 25 keys 🙂

[lapis spindle]

with sin

[vast forum]

as full single target assa

[lost horizon]

I know how to play sin in M+, it's very simple

[lone junco]

when your DH/FIRE blast so fucking hard in cleave, someone gets to kill the boss.

[lapis spindle]

Link me your r.io

[vast forum]

you want a video of me doing 236k in a junkyard25? 🙂

[lost horizon]

Open up your spec window, select outlaw, then hit activate

[vast forum]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Yoppa

[lone junco]

DONGS OUT. Cmon boys. lets see

[lapis spindle]

😄

[vast forum]

not sure if he's baiting

[lapis spindle]

I want some

[lost horizon]

@vast forum are you actually citing junkyard for performance?

[vast forum]

i mean

if you subtract zap damage

i still did 150k overall

[lost horizon]

[balmy condor]

can we all just hug it out :)

[lone junco]

all those keys are fine.

[odd heath]

running jy with 89% haste is the way to go

[lone junco]

anyone doing 28s, doesnt need to be asking this discord what to play

[lapis spindle]

Outlaw

[rigid mango]

@gusty kestrel It'll be ok

[vast forum]

but no, i can also find a screenshot of doing 140k in UR23 or 24 from a few months ago if i bother with it

[quasi pewter]

tisu is just mad because he doesnt have high rio

[vast forum]

i don't record/screenshot every run i do

[lone junco]

I like outlaw for the Gouge, but damn the fok sustain is so damn easy.

[rancid bobcat]

when will raider io split score like wcl did

[lone junco]

I can carry you in some NA Horde 15s

done

[rancid bobcat]

i want my big 4k before corruption vendor to be worth something

now everyones 5k and i quit

[lost horizon]

5k is the new 3k

[rancid bobcat]

[lone junco]

is kaite the one with the 125k st sim?

[rancid bobcat]

no

[strange python]

im barely 2k bow down before me

[balmy condor]

kaite sims are bad

[lone junco]

was going to bow down to that giant 🍆

[balmy condor]

not even 100 neck

[lone junco]

rip

noob

[rancid bobcat]

ya

[lapis spindle]

Tbh I fit more crit than haste in MM +

What do you guys think

[lone junco]

real talk. I am sad for my rogue.

our DH alt rogue got 3ss3fok first fucking gamble

sits at 55% crit flat + eyeglass.

fucker

[wet ruin]

@vast forum red boy now 😄

[lapis spindle]

But like why should I ake my raiding gear (haste x9) to mm + ?

[balmy condor]

@lapis spindle crit/vers for 3x EB

[lapis spindle]

cauz my gp is like

[balmy condor]

you can run your haste set in m+ and be fine

[lapis spindle]

spamming kifes and shits

[balmy condor]

its big single target

[lapis spindle]

yes

[vast forum]

@wet ruin ye, transferred 2 days ago 😄

[balmy condor]

so you do good on obelisks and bosses and cleave

from stealth and vanishes

it works fine

its just not giga-aoe

[vast forum]

accidentally pressing berserking when i want to shadowmeld

[balmy condor]

if you need the giga-aoe, you would go 3x EB with crit/vers

[vast forum]

is something i need to learn to live with

if you need the giga aoe you play outlaw tbh 😄

[lone junco]

if you were running with us, and my DH and Fire were blasting, having gimp aoe isnt as helpful. So blasting obylisks and bosses is still nice. Esp of you still have SS for each open.

[rancid bobcat]

[vast forum]

yeap

i play with BM and firemage

if i press fok on fear obelisk, the mage's ignite just does less damage and hunter just doesn't get anything to rapid reload from

[lone junco]

we run double DH. and when they are both 450-500k that trash isnt the problem.

[vast forum]

i might look good on meters

but i'm inting the key 🙂

i'd argue that single target build is strictly better in TD/workhop/junkyard/KR/ToS and siege if you do any spotter stuff

[lone junco]

but tisu pleb is fake news.

Speaking of. I bet he is DH main anyway

saw you tanking.

[polar pine]

Evening

[lone junco]

was that just for memes

[balmy condor]

@polar pine o/ hello there

[lone junco]

btw, you missed out on quality tom content. Cross dressing at some party.

[polar pine]

I have a couple of questions regarding our beloved sin builds if someone can help me 🙂

[vast forum]

also arguably better on some weeks in waycrest (5 bosses), underrot (1 less tantrum is nice due to single target) and shrine (silences and 1-phasing last boss)

[balmy condor]

I gotchu homie ask away

[odd heath]

shrine 2nd boss as sin is kinda meh s.s

[lost horizon]

Do you actually play sin in siege with spotter?

That sounds brutal

[polar pine]

Thx, I got the opener sequence pretty clear and I'm doing it right (DPS sky rocketing)... but once that vendetta and vanish are on cooldown and the essence too... what is the optimal rotation ? Because right now when cooldowns are up DPS ggoes really high, but once you're in the middle it falls quite a lot, so I must be doing something wrong.

[balmy condor]

nah that's pretty normal

[lone junco]

@balmy condor gets an honorable mention for Noobe coach. Nice work tbh.

[balmy condor]

thanks :) I try

I just want everyone to get along and be happy

peace love positivity

anyway

[lone junco]

I dried up after I went heal main at Dazar'alor

[normal olive]

What's a opener

[balmy condor]

@polar pine the main thing is just using your exsangs basically on cd so you can line them back up for 2:20ish and the big cooldown slam

the time inbetween big slams is pretty mediocre dps

that's completely normal

you get small bumps from the in-between exsangs

but nothing crazy

[polar pine]

ok, right now not using the exsang build because my gear isn't high enough yet with enough haste, and I'm keeping my corruptions when gear gets ok.

so it's all about lining up the cooldowns

[balmy condor]

with poison you get a little more consistency

but yeah

exsang has big cooldown phases

its a pretty big staple

[polar pine]

yup... that's why I went toxic blade for now and poison bomb

it's my first rogue by the way so kind of experimenting with this

[balmy condor]

yeah, just transition to exsang once you get the corruptions and gear for it

its definitely better

just a little different playstyle

[polar pine]

alright... and second question I had is for AoE

[balmy condor]

oh boy

[polar pine]

I've read contradicting stuff

and I'm kind of lost

[balmy condor]

we just got out of our shit show on aoe

go ahead and ask

[polar pine]

lol

[balmy condor]

and we'll see if the brushfire starts

[odd heath]

at least 3 severes

[polar pine]

I've read that you must apply garrote to 3 targets (at least) then fan of knives... but garrote has a 6sec cooldown soooooo....

[lone junco]

preface your question with key level.

[balmy condor]

subterfuge

[lone junco]

ah thats an easy one

[balmy condor]

you have to run subterfuge in keys

that allows you to get 3 garrotes out

because it doesn't give you the cooldown

[polar pine]

I'm currently running sub

[balmy condor]

then you start in stealth

and cast 3 garrotes

[lone junco]

with SS traits, and subterfuge, you can Garrote, tab, garrote, tab, garrote.

[balmy condor]

no problem there

yeah

[polar pine]

that means you must garrote switching targets super fast (if they are packed)

[lone junco]

3 mobs spread the garrotes to the elites (not shitty small mobs)

yeah

[balmy condor]

yes

you just have to tab

[lone junco]

I pick the ones I want with a click. but tab works.

[polar pine]

then spamming FoK and dropping Envenom to avoid capping

[balmy condor]

maintaing CT

and ruptures for energy

if you're running an EB/crit build you would spam fok, only using a finish to get EP up

[gilded laurel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[polar pine]

I've already made auras and combined stuff to keep track of dots and such

[balmy condor]

that's good

important step

[polar pine]

Raidbot says I should be doing almost 50k DPS, of course I'm not at that level... so thus my questions 🙂

[lone junco]

@polar pine some fun tips: After the opener, garrote is dogshit in cleave. Keep up a few ruptures. So the first 3 garrotes then 3 more if you vanish are all super strong. After that tab out some ruptures to maintain energy.

Do you have the 3 fok and high crit?

[polar pine]

@lone junco yeah I noticed that after the you lose the empowered garrotes, for cleave it's pretty bad

[balmy condor]

yeah

you let the CT/fok damage carry

or you vanish on a long pack

[polar pine]

That was one of my questions, if our vanish is on cooldown and we must attack visible, what's the best "cleave" ? because some fights like Nzot don't give us a lof of room

[balmy condor]

well in raids you're lining vanish up with vendetta

for big exsangs

[lone junco]

vanish in keys and raid is different for sure.

[balmy condor]

in aoe you would vanish on long packs or big cleave

like you can gar 3x, CT, vanish gar 3x

[lone junco]

yeah. like the first pull in freehold.

[balmy condor]

and that's huge damage

[polar pine]

yup, but for example with Nzot you use lets say on vanish, then you still have to DPS the other tentacles... cleave is pretty bad

[balmy condor]

a lot of our damage in raids is garrote and rupture

so you can cross-dot

and do decent cleave that way

[polar pine]

At least for AoE things are clearer to me, which is cool and I know the middle phase kind of sucks until we line-up again

[balmy condor]

just hitting things with dots is pretty good

[polar pine]

that's what I'm doing, applying garrote and rupture but it's nowhere near the cleave of a mage

[normal olive]

Fire Mage goes brrr

[lone junco]

Assassin is not a raid cleave class. dont expect to be a god

[balmy condor]

yeah

[lone junco]

vendetta is a ST blast.

[balmy condor]

we don't get free cleave like a fire mage

[lone junco]

the only fight that looks anything like that is Hivemind if you have no fire mage. and full EB crit kit.

[polar pine]

wasn't expecting to be one ha, but it's just that it feels in the overall DPS in fights like that

EB crit kit ?

[balmy condor]

3x SS 3x EB

[lone junco]

I look at raid boss damage. and see Sin high on that list. Idk about mythic nzoth, but dont expect Sin swapping to be worth much.

[balmy condor]

with crit/vers and severe/strikethrough

its our aoe m+ setup

[polar pine]

oh ok

https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-exsanguinate/ this one ?

[lone junco]

that one is the ST exang guide. get a billion haste.

[polar pine]

yeah I'm not using that one yet due to gear and keeping corruptions for the good stuff

[balmy condor]

yeah that's the preferred guide for raids

[polar pine]

is there a link for the EB crit kit ?

[balmy condor]

not really

but you can look at someone like ryfie

https://raider.io/characters/us/zuljin/Ryfie

he's running versatiles for really high keys

but generally he's going 3x severe and the rest strikes

[lone junco]

so they can take the big blasts. not necessarily for the damage.

[wet ruin]

top players running versa, surely thats the way to go then

[balmy condor]

please don't annsie :)

just trying to be constructive here, lets not rehash old beef

[polar pine]

Thanks for all the tips, was really helpful fellas

[wet ruin]

😄 come on, its fun

[polar pine]

interesting talk and definitely will have to rethink stuff once my gear gets better

[balmy condor]

it is indeed fun, but I'm not that guy :P

I just want a chill place and helping people out

roast me for being a wholesome pussy ass bitch

:P

[polar pine]

I definitely prefer a chill place where people get help than a place full of pretentious elite players

used to play demo, but I hate what they've done with it and making destru the only build viable...

[normal olive]

I can show you some pretty great openers if you don't like yours

[balmy condor]

navi get out

[normal olive]

[polar pine]

bonk

[balmy condor]

navi's got some of the worst openers I've seen

and he's consistent about them

he just teases me with them constantly

cause he knows I hate it

[normal olive]

My openers are great

[balmy condor]

more garrote more better

[polar pine]

In case of emergency : garrote

[balmy condor]

don't encourage him

[normal olive]

the best one was the gr -> rup -> mut -> ,mut -> env xD

[polar pine]

Why break his dreams ?

[balmy condor]

not you too

[normal olive]

looking at my logs and only seeing standard openers makes me sad

[balmy condor]

no

that's happy

you should feel happiness

[lone junco]

I loved seeing the Chinese Prophet opening with Poison knife in Legion.

people do weird shit

and sometimes, they happen to find a bug

[balmy condor]

that bug was disgusting though

[normal olive]

i like to laugh at myself at 4 am because of my logs c:

[polar pine]

Thanks again, will be back laterz

[balmy condor]

anytime, have a good one

[young dust]

https://raider.io/characters/us/zuljin/Ryfie
@balmy condor wow i hadnt seen an assa running versa until now

sucks that this shouldn't be great in raiding

[balmy condor]

its literally only because he's pushing 28's

he complains about the damage he's losing

but he needs it to survive

[lone junco]

Most of the big druids are running 65% verse, and it only works when the group is running verse.

but they cant live the damage without it.

[young dust]

would you say that the best build overall would be 3SS with exp? I mean, for every purpose

[balmy condor]

28's just hit so so so hard

yeah

if you're going overall

go with 3SS exp

[young dust]

great, i'll keep focusing on that one

[lone junco]

Isnt there a mediocre raid build with crit stack?

[balmy condor]

yeah but the mediocre raid build is worse than the haste build would be in m+

[young dust]

maybe it will work on vexiona/hivemind idk

[balmy condor]

if you want to focus on m+

you can go with the crit stack

and do fine

but Imo if you want 1 build to do it all

exped exsang is the way to do

cause its just a more usable build all around

[young dust]

which key level we should start to worry about switching over to vers?

[lone junco]

27

[balmy condor]

like 27

26 maybe

but 25 and under you don't need to care

[young dust]

i ran sethraliss 22 and the first boss on tyrannical was just plain stupid

[balmy condor]

tyranical

[shy dust]

Just meld it

[lost horizon]

nothing really 1shots on 27 that you'd need vers for

unless you're running like 0%

or playing on tyr

[balmy condor]

it can get a little sketchy

but yeah

generally not

its the stuff you can't feint that starts getting scary

[naive lynx]

is it possible to have 3SS with 3 EB?

[balmy condor]

yes

[young dust]

yes but it's hard

[balmy condor]

its all from the vendor

[naive lynx]

the random stuff?

[balmy condor]

you should specific buy the 480 helm

but the rest you can gamble

shoulders are pretty easy

you can gamble 480 chest pretty easily too, its a little harder

gambling 480 helm is pretty brutal

you can gamble for the 465 instead and it's honestly fine

traits > ilvl in this case

could also use a gibbering or something

that's fine too

[young dust]

if you run 3xSS 3xHOD stacking exp should you keep it or focus on Blightborne infusion?

[balmy condor]

the 3rd EB isn't as important as the 3rd SS

[naive lynx]

but the vendor gives dungeon shoulders

can't you just farm it out of a dungeon?

[balmy condor]

you can sim that lucas

[shy dust]

Not at higher than 430

[balmy condor]

generall the blightborne is better

[young dust]

no, m+ do not receive azerite

reward*

[shy dust]

Only base mythics drop Azerite

[balmy condor]

you can get azerite from m0

[naive lynx]

ohh

[balmy condor]

but its bad item level

so that's not worth it

[young dust]

usually wont sim better than 465 from heroic

[balmy condor]

yeah

[naive lynx]

so all I can do is roll for it?

[balmy condor]

if you want the SS/EB

yes

[naive lynx]

what about 2 EB? can I get 2 eb without gambling?

with 3 ss?

or even 2

[young dust]

damn i wish titan residuum was easier to get

you should roll shoulders and save for the helm i think

[balmy condor]

Should’ve added a small amount to keys like they do echoes tbh

Would’ve been a lot nicer

But hindsight 20/20

Expac’s done for

Just move on and hope they get it right next time :)

The only SS/EB comes from the vendor @naive lynx

[naive lynx]

ah i see

[vital haven]

just bite the bullet and go outlaw

great azerite pieces from the raid for outlaw m+

[normal olive]

[vital haven]

hey man im just saying

its a lot easier to get lmao

[naive lynx]

ew

sin is much more fun for m+

imo

[balmy condor]

Outlaw in MY GOOD CHRISTIAN SIN CHANNEL

[naive lynx]

what about only 3 EB? is that "viable" or better than 3 SS for m+?

[balmy condor]

3SS is the more important part

3 SS is huge

[royal lantern]

3xSS is the most important thing

[naive lynx]

dan git

okay

[royal lantern]

ss is aoe AND st boost

EB is only aoe

[balmy condor]

Yep yep

[royal lantern]

3xss 3xEB is possible, its just the full aoe build

[glass breach]

how much haste is to much haste before lucid dreams minor becomes null and void

[balmy condor]

60%ish

[royal lantern]

when other stuff sims higher tbh

[balmy condor]

It leaves around the same time CT pops in

[glass breach]

im at 42 haste

so i wasnt sure

[balmy condor]

Yeah gonna need more than that

[glass breach]

even with rank 16 exped?

[balmy condor]

Yep

Need more than 16 as well

I’m running 25 this week

[glass breach]

im working on it

but i wasnt sure

[balmy condor]

Yeppers

[glass breach]

the guide didnt clarify the haste spot so i wasnt sure

[balmy condor]

the essence CT stuff is just a sim question

it varies from person to person

I just give a % as a general amount to aim for

but its not a breakpoint or anything

ya

[naive lynx]

Umm, are the mechagon rings can be considered the "biggest" boost?

[balmy condor]

yes

[naive lynx]

is that 1xy haste proc that much?

[balmy condor]

yeah

its like 3-4 sockets

kinda massive

[naive lynx]

thats true..

now that I think about it

and also

what's hard about using galecaller?

don't know anything bout it sry.

[patent topaz]

nothing

people just bitch

[balmy condor]

Standing in the circle is the usual complaint

[naive lynx]

haha

[balmy condor]

It’s not that bad

[drifting cloud]

alot of us cba for 500 dps when you play it perfect 4months into farm

when I can gain x3 that by race swapping

[patent topaz]

I have a socketed gcb and I cba with doing KR and getting a socket

depends on what you have

[young dust]

@balmy condor do you have the raider.io from a exp/SS rogue that runs +24-26?

[drifting cloud]

I mean just check the rio leaderboard?

[balmy condor]

I don’t know of any running that high personally

https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Yoppa

yoppa is really into exped

he's up there

[glass breach]

how high can sin go in m+

[balmy condor]

https://raider.io/characters/us/zuljin/Ryfie

This high

[naive lynx]

xd

[patent topaz]

not even 12/12 smh

[balmy condor]

He stopped caring

Hard focus m+

[glass breach]

and i am assuming echoing blades is a must

[balmy condor]

No

It’s not

It’s just what he prefers to play

He doesn’t play tyran weeks and he plays for the aoe, similar to how an outlaw rogue would

You can play exped decently high

Which is what yoppa does in the link above that

[glass breach]

but he plays OL

[balmy condor]

On some keys yeah

He plays sin in others

[celest swan]

hey seeing some toplogs with mainly mastery sockets isntead of haste

reasoning behind it? do we swtich to mastery at some point?

[balmy condor]

Yeah happens

[celest swan]

and is it trsutwprthy in sims?

[balmy condor]

It sims marginally higher for them

[celest swan]

like just sim it and if it tells my mastery is better go for it?

[balmy condor]

Sure

It’s super marginal

If you’re asking about it here, it doesn’t really affect you tbh

[celest swan]

probably better to drop one expedient for it

[balmy condor]

That’s a no

[celest swan]

and get a honed mind?

[balmy condor]

You get a honed mind in a couple weeks if that sims higher

But not now

We don’t have enough resistance for it

[young dust]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Yoppa
@balmy condor Yeah thanks a lot! Also found this guy https://raider.io/characters/us/azralon/Jhonwei#season=season-bfa-4

[celest swan]

well if he right now play wiht 9x Expedient Rank 3

is guess it would be better

[young dust]

he's running SS and HOD in m+, for those who want to check out

[balmy condor]

Yeah @plain thistle is a good guy too

Nice lad

[celest swan]

cause there is no difference the resistance is just relevant if u dont want to go above a trheshold

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah

By that logic you would stack 900 corruption of infinite stars

And pray

[normal olive]

well going over 200 is a nono

[celest swan]

there is still a difference betwen 79 and 200 mate

[fleet whale]

you'll die if you go over 200

[balmy condor]

The point is that the 7x 3, 1x 2, hm3

Keeps you under 60

[celest swan]

on max cloak yeah

[balmy condor]

And that’s the whole reason that was simmed like that

If you’re going higher

Then do you

Sim it

Whatever comes out go for it

[celest swan]

so expedient rank 3 still would have higher dps per corruption for the last slot?

[balmy condor]

sim it

[celest swan]

cant not a rogue here

[young dust]

i didn't see someone running 9x exp and opting for EB, with haste stacking HoD should be the go-to in M+ oinstead of EB?

[celest swan]

or i can but more hurdles to that^^

[balmy condor]

Then tell the person you’re asking to sim it

No one here has the answer to that

[celest swan]

ye thats fine, was just gathering information

[balmy condor]

With exped you run HoD over EB in m+ yes

[celest swan]

besides sim it u can see reasoning in what the sim says