assassination

[balmy condor]

Yes

It is

And we don’t have the resistance for it yet

[cyan bone]

not even for expe 2?

[balmy condor]

Hm3 is 35 corruption

[cyan bone]

oh fuck

[balmy condor]

@strong wigeon opener, vanish once the empowered garrotes drop (~20sec in), exsang, exsang, full lineup at 2:20

[strong wigeon]

lemme rephrase sorry, after fight starts and i use exang twice and 2 minutes pass

how do i line up my second set of cds

mid fight

[balmy condor]

I don't understand the question

they are lined up at that point

[cyan bone]

yea what?

exsang 45s cd

vend 2 min

so 3rd exsang is at 2:15 no?

[balmy condor]

your vanish comes up at 2:20, the exsang at 2:15, and you hold vendetta and blood

[strong wigeon]

so third exang to line with vanish and vendetta?

[balmy condor]

the gang's all together

[strong wigeon]

ok

[cyan bone]

yea

[balmy condor]

fourth exsang

[cyan bone]

hold blood always for vendetta

[balmy condor]

1st is the opener, then you do 2 without cd's, the 4th then lines up again

[strong wigeon]

yea ok

got it, so when it comes, vanish, gar rup gar vend, and repeat opener right?

[cyan bone]

Man I'd like to do over 100k st aswell 😦

[balmy condor]

you would start with 3 cp, gar rup gar vend exsang bote

rupture would already be ticking

so you don't want to overwrite with a 3cp rupture and then a 6cp rupture and then exsang

that part's not needed

[strong wigeon]

but focus on garrote with pandemic right?

[balmy condor]

im not sure what that's supposed to mean

you always full pandemic garrote and a 6cp rupture before an exsang

[strong wigeon]

ok

thats what i meant, thanks

[balmy condor]

no problem glad we got it figured out :P

[strong wigeon]

ye, gotta take it for a full mythic clear, just wanna be sure of things

[dire spoke]

I'm not defending clicking, I just stepped up because generally claiming something is really bad just to point out something else is better is kinda weird. You can probably get cutting edge in top50 without people noticing it, so it really doesn't matter for the majority of playerbase @pale tiger

[balmy condor]

we have our own opinions

it's all chill

not really a discussion worth having in this day and age

[dire spoke]

just never watch me play

[balmy condor]

you play however you like man

we all play a game cause its fun

[normal olive]

I played on a broken laptop with broken keyboard for 3 years that's how i learned to click

[dire spoke]

[normal olive]

From g the whole right side didn't work xD

[naive lynx]

can I Sap an Orc in PvP?

[balmy condor]

yes

you can sap any race

[dark crag]

I am so advanced i click with my keyboard

[normal olive]

Just bind your mouse to 1 and move it with arrowkeys

[dark crag]

Win 10 keyboard mouse, Num 5 is Mouseclick

Can even produce double clicks. I get every supply drop

[naive lynx]

I can only Sap people who are not in combat in PvP as well right?

[normal olive]

yes

[balmy condor]

correct

[naive lynx]

okayy thanks

Condensed life Force sims higher that bote?

[normal olive]

For single target

[naive lynx]

aah i gotta farm it then

[dire spoke]

Mostly, but it may not be good to utilize in every boss fight

[normal olive]

Depends on killtimes too

[dire spoke]

@balmy condor I actually enchanted vers now on weapons 😐 feelsweird man

[strange python]

do u 3ss or echo in m+

[balmy condor]

yes

you do both

[strange python]

3ss and echo

xD

where to get

that

[balmy condor]

vendor

[strange python]

holy shit

waht is prioop

3 ss or ech oxD

[balmy condor]

SS

[dire spoke]

whip hates me now

[balmy condor]

I love everyone :)

[naive lynx]

so, back to shadowlands

how will exsang work without this much haste corrupt?

[normal olive]

The same way it does now but with less ticks?

[naive lynx]

so it's gonna be bad 🙂

[balmy condor]

just like it was before

yes

[naive lynx]

ahh 😦

so back to crit?

[balmy condor]

we don't know yet

probably not

[vast forum]

i mean

[balmy condor]

haste still good

[vast forum]

haste might end up being our best stat

anything could end up being our best stat tbh

[normal olive]

As soon as rogue gets some stuff on beta we might know what works with legendarys and what not c:

[vast forum]

it just depends on numbers tuning

[naive lynx]

i hope it will be good

[dire spoke]

come back in 6 month after theorycrafting is done

(0:

[balmy condor]

^

[normal olive]

I'ma just do it like allways, hoard all the gear and try out what works best

[lone junco]

A lot of time, people will get a feel from raid testing. But then it is a giant gamble until mythic tuning the week if heroic raids.

Then they make or break your spec or class for the next 4 months. Lol

[gleaming prism]

Apologies if this isn't the section for this, but I had a question regarding rotation for the high haste/bleeds build

Vanish: First Vanish is used once your initial garrote expires. 2nd Vanish is used as soon as it comes off cooldown with Vendetta.

[balmy condor]

uh huh

definitely the right place to ask about it

[gleaming prism]

Article states "2nd Vanish is used as soon as it comes off cooldown with Vendetta." Will this be similar to opener where Vendetta is popped after your second (empowred) garrote, or popped same time as vanish?

empowered*

[balmy condor]

yes

you would 3cp vanish gar rup gar

you would pop the vendetta before and the exsang after

just like normal

you could pop the vendetta afterwards as well

minor gains/losses either way

[gleaming prism]

I see. Just trying to optimize play here. Might be splitting hairs.

So with vanish @3 cp, your first garrote will put you at 5cp > full rupture > garrote > exsang > blood of the enemy (if slotted) > mutilate > envenom

[balmy condor]

first garrote puts you at 6

and yes, that would be correct

[gleaming prism]

Ah okay, 2 +1?

[balmy condor]

you need the vendetta in there though

yeah, SS gives us 2 additional, on top of the 1 we get naturally

[gleaming prism]

Oops, yes.

3cp > vanish > garrote for 6cp > full rupture > garrote > vendetta > exsang > blood of the enemy (if slotted) > mutilate > envenom

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine

[gleaming prism]

Awesome, thank you @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

anytime man

[devout fiber]

Which one?

[balmy condor]

the envenom one on the right

[devout fiber]

ty

[left schooner]

Hey guys, a small question, from what levels does it become viable to switch to sin from outlaw?

[balmy condor]

outlaw is always viable

if you want to play outlaw you'll be fine

[left schooner]

I'll play sin cause of pvp

[balmy condor]

leveling wise, outlaw is preferred, its also preferred in keys

[left schooner]

but wanna level as fast as possible to 120

what is keys?

I'm very new to retail hahah

[balmy condor]

its an endgame system for dungeons

[left schooner]

Ah alright

Is assa still decent in pve tho?

[balmy condor]

yes

sin is preferred in raids

but its able to do everything

[left schooner]

Thanks

[balmy condor]

just enjoy the game and if you have to worry about performance you can evaluate then

its end of expac and you're new to retail

[left schooner]

one last question, how are rogues overall rn? Are they fun in end game pvp etc?

Yeah but I always min max

don't matter what I play I just min max hahah

[balmy condor]

rogues right now are a little bit sketchy performance wise

we do okay in keys but we're pretty mid pack in raids

[left schooner]

what about pvp?

[balmy condor]

sins great

'fun' is very subjective though so idk

[left schooner]

what about the fun aspect of pvp? is the skill ceiling high for rogues?

[balmy condor]

asking in a rogue discord if rogue is fun is a quick way to skew your results

I'd say the skill ceiling is pretty high

you can watch someone like pikaboo

[left schooner]

kinda wanted to go mage cause of the insane skill ceiling and outplay potential is insane but heard xar and pika say that after legion rogue s took the "controller" name from mages

yeah been following him and xar for years

[balmy condor]

#pvp probably has better answers bout that than me

I hate pvp personally

I grinded my essences and basically stopped

[twilit ginkgo]

How does vendetta affect your active bleed damage? Do you have to apply the bleed with vendetta for it to do the enhanced damage? If so why do you vanish double garrote before vendetta in the second vendetta of the fight?

[balmy condor]

vendetta affects in real time

[twilit ginkgo]

ah so the active bleeds on the target get stronger

that's good to know

[balmy condor]

correct

[twilit ginkgo]

I gotta say this discord is infinitely more helpful than the mage one ROFL

[balmy condor]

its a fun time

[loud brook]

One day

I'll join the gorak tul mantle cult

[twilit ginkgo]

Could I get someone to look at this log and see if there were any notable mistakes? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Xa8Tz92NhDPHf6Jn/#fight=last&type=damage-done

I got a decent ilvl parse which is whatever but im still not fully hasted up

[balmy condor]

I'll take a look after this dungeon

[twilit ginkgo]

thanks

[loud brook]

I tried but the mobile client on my phone is confusing the heck out of me

[balmy condor]

mobile sucks

[rancid bobcat]

Vex is poop so

[carmine dawn]

what are 3 minors for m+? strife, memory, and iris?

[balmy condor]

breath strife lucid

iris isn't half bad though

could play iris instead of strife if you'd like

breath and lucid are locked in though

[carmine dawn]

might run iris cause im a dirty crit stacking outlaw. sitting at 13% haste

[balmy condor]

that's fine

[carmine dawn]

which part lol

[balmy condor]

the haste

[carmine dawn]

right cause lucid and vigor are OP

thanks.

[balmy condor]

np

[heavy vessel]

Question: what trinkets should I be going for pre-raid? Haven't found anything about this in the pins and whatnot.

[balmy condor]

dice/plume is good

pre-raid you just kinda toss on whatever tbh

[heavy vessel]

Gotcha

I'm probably looking to just do mythic+ on this toon on the pve side, so maybe I'll just wing it haha

Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll probably prioritize those instances to speed things up. Those are my only slots below 400 any more

[compact phoenix]

master assassin or subterfuge

[balmy condor]

Depends on your gear

You can simulate it

For m+ always take subterfuge

Also are you related to the dog guy above you

[umbral rapids]

Lmfao

[balmy condor]

What’s with the pixel dogs

[umbral rapids]

What’s with the weeb pfp

[balmy condor]

I’m degenerate

[umbral rapids]

Same tbh

[balmy condor]

Understandable

[umbral rapids]

Whisp

I only sim 102k

[balmy condor]

Have you thought about simming higher than 102k

[normal olive]

Have you thought about not doing bad dmg?

[umbral rapids]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2TzEi4PuJ4ZCM4h6c2r3mk

[normal olive]

[umbral rapids]

My azerite is poop

[balmy condor]

Homeboy it makes me cry

[umbral rapids]

Bro help me wtf

[balmy condor]

The azerite is like onions in my eyes

[umbral rapids]

Same

Time to go see what’s in restore

[balmy condor]

I like how you decided to sim CT with a TTK trait

As if you had hope

[umbral rapids]

kek

You go for hod on top of ss ?

All traits sound crap

My sockets hurt me

9 sockets on outlaw, 2 on sin

[balmy condor]

Hold on child

I shall give you the deeps you so desperately desire

[arctic walrus]

hod is bis after ss for expedient stack

[umbral rapids]

thanks momma

Yeah so basically rip

Since i don’t plan on raiding mythic

[arctic walrus]

your stats are so close together every stat it gives is an all around upgrade

[umbral rapids]

Yeah makes sense

[balmy condor]

Makin me sim on mobile n shit

[umbral rapids]

I mean u don’t have to...

[balmy condor]

But I will

Cause that’s what I do

[umbral rapids]

Not that I can hit 102k in game anyway

[balmy condor]

Also hi vel :) how you doin

[umbral rapids]

Also hi vel :)

[arctic walrus]

gearing a purple cuz yellow is bad

[balmy condor]

Demon hunter in 2020

[umbral rapids]

[arctic walrus]

light purple :^)

[balmy condor]

dial up noises

A warlock?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8ChPxbmLCGtVmb4W1DjayL

Take your 4400 dps and be happy symfony

[umbral rapids]

Bruh

Now I have to reforge my azerite pog

[balmy condor]

Just do what I do with my shoulders

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

I reforge for raid tuesday, then reforge after for keys, then reforge on Thursday for raid, then reforge for keys

Rinse and repeat every week for the last week and a half :$

[umbral rapids]

Playing hivemind as sin

[balmy condor]

Sin pops on hivemind hello

[arctic walrus]

it's not even that bad anymore

barely any aoe, moreso cleave

[balmy condor]

Playing outlaw on anything

[umbral rapids]

Playing outlaw on everything

[balmy condor]

Yeah play outlaw on Maut

[arctic walrus]

the only reason I played outlaw this tier was to try and compete against lok

[balmy condor]

You monkey

[umbral rapids]

Ye dude ez

[normal olive]

Tried playing Outlaw

i have no idea what i'm doing

[umbral rapids]

I don’t raid to be fairy

[balmy condor]

Being bad at the game and losing brain cells

[umbral rapids]

Pugged wrathion and skitra kekw

[balmy condor]

That’s why I don’t play outlaw

[normal olive]

Confused the crap out of me only rolling 1 buff

[balmy condor]

All the lurker yellow names can @ me on that shit

[umbral rapids]

@ you

[balmy condor]

Your spec makes my cat fall asleep

[umbral rapids]

Lmao

[normal olive]

Outlaw

[umbral rapids]

Why do you reforge then ?

EB?

[balmy condor]

Ye

I have epaulet’s

So it’s Ss/clock for raids Ss/eb for keys

[umbral rapids]

Fair

Buying shoulders next reset f this

[balmy condor]

I’ve rolled so many shoulders

I’m happy with my ss/clock

I think I’m rolling for type ii

Double clock hype

[steep plover]

Do youse use bleed build on hive or switch to eb

[umbral rapids]

Magine i get another gorak

[normal olive]

I'm trying to get a SS / EB Head atm

[steep plover]

Imagine getting even one

[normal olive]

Got Gorak second week of rolling and SS / EB shoulders the 3rd week

[steep plover]

I got the same shoulders 3 weeks in a row

[balmy condor]

We had big aoe problems on hive

So I was allowed to EB xD

But usually bleed

Imagine having 3 boomies, no fire mages, and 2 mediocre hunters

[arctic walrus]

imagine being a mediocre hunter??

[normal olive]

And Hidden Blades?

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying

Oh I used some janky shit lmao

I think I ended up with master poisoner subt vigor tb hidden blade

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

And I ran 3ss3eb

Was pretty gud

[normal olive]

Can't wait for Shadowlands and actually starting the content with everybody else and not 2 months late

[balmy condor]

Yeah just wait till limit does splits

You’ll be 2 months behind and playing more than them

[normal olive]

Still remember Nighthold, we had a buddy in Aversion and he asked me to come to split raids for hc elisande and guldan, bonus rolled the Elisande Trinket in warforged with socket

[slim pebble]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/h8KGydjWztGARxJjVFNuc5

Can i squeeze any more dps out of this or am i just kinda stuck until I get more sockets/mythic gear

[compact phoenix]

so for aoe do you apply garrote to like 4 guys and then spam fov until you get enough combo points to apply rupture to 3 guys

[balmy condor]

You gar gar gar from stealth cause subterfuge

CT and then fok to apply another rupture

And go from there

@slim pebble that’s a quick sim btw

[normal olive]

@slim pebble get tier 3 essences

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s pretty obvious

But like aside from “tier 2 blood kek”

[slim pebble]

I came back after a very long break from wow so im pretty behind on those.

[balmy condor]

Not much to help with unless we know what it’s your bag

[steep plover]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k95JxXtBLSpbj5KEWzuwAM

what can i do boys

i know sockets and shit

[balmy condor]

cracks knuckles

Now we’re getting somewhere

[normal olive]

Not use IS

[steep plover]

I KNOW LISTEN

it always sim so much higher

i have haste boots that ill probs use but im tryna get 465 version before i corrupt them

[balmy condor]

Are we sub 40 or sub 60

[steep plover]

but if youse recommend corrupting anything rn, i have 4 expedients in the bp

60

for raid

m+ im sub 40

but this is more for raid purposes

[balmy condor]

Sounds good

[steep plover]

im gna need to figure out which dunegons hve good haste gear

so i can spam them

[normal olive]

wrong thing

[balmy condor]

I’m guessing I’m not allowed to touch the strikethrough/severe stuff?

[steep plover]

ye bout to do it

nah theyre fine

[normal olive]

Droptimizer that's what i meant

[steep plover]

damage is damage

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/29ijADB6mU5Q3FRJhttGuP

or this if you hate CLF

[steep plover]

omg

ur a GOD

[balmy condor]

be gone of the curse of IS

[steep plover]

u got me to 100k

❤️

[normal olive]

2241 combinations

[balmy condor]

is fine

:)

combinations are cul

[steep plover]

ur a weapon whisp

[balmy condor]

I'm a weapon to myself cause I wanna fucking die

does that count

[steep plover]

LOL

no

if u die ill die

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

[steep plover]

because then i wont be able to progress

[balmy condor]

2020 sucks dude

you have no idea how bored I would be without this chat

I'd have to be an actual musician and like play instruments and compose and shit

ew

[normal olive]

You can look at my random ass openers on my logs

[balmy condor]

pls no

[steep plover]

wait so should i get rid of the IS or nah

[balmy condor]

nah is a jok

you're stuck with it

but you could

[steep plover]

LOL

[balmy condor]

wait

hold on

me look

UHHHHH

[steep plover]

i think sethralis has some boots tht could be better with expedient

[balmy condor]

there it is

[steep plover]

oh

[balmy condor]

you do this

[steep plover]

thank the lord

thanks ya beast

owe u one

[balmy condor]

no problemo

[normal olive]

noone can beat my genius

[balmy condor]

you're just double full pandemicing

hidden tech

[normal olive]

it get's better

[vital haven]

hey i mean

[harsh sphinx]

[vital haven]

impossible to get unlucky with a 2cp mut anymore

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

oh fuck yeah

that's that good shit

4 garrotes for 4 times the damage

[normal olive]

quick maths

[balmy condor]

the mad man's done it

[vital haven]

dude these openers

im loving them

[normal olive]

i'm a big brain i told you

[vital haven]

fuck mutilate

[balmy condor]

I think raz needs to rethink his guide

we don't need daggers

take double slappers

and just vanish garrote for cp

[normal olive]

like 70% of the time i manage the opener

and then i somehow manage to do that shit up there

[opal minnow]

tbh ive seen worse

a trial in my guild did g-r-g-v-g-ex once

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna go on a limb and say he didn't get a raid spot

[opal minnow]

he's still around-trials last through slands

[normal olive]

I'm glad i pug everything

[balmy condor]

no you're not

[normal olive]

Well i would like to join a raid guild but i'm stuck in a 4 man guild

[balmy condor]

in a what now

[normal olive]

In a guild with 4 people in it

[balmy condor]

[opal minnow]

how does one get stuck in that

[normal olive]

A buddy paid for my server trans so we could look for a guild together, and now he wants to make his own guild while being online for like 4 hours a week

[opal minnow]

give him like 200k gold and call it even

[normal olive]

Gonna wait a bit longer, since he said he'll try to get his old mythic raid buddies to join, and if nothing changes in like 2 weeks i'ma leave

[balmy condor]

y'all got some crazy stories in EU land

[normal olive]

Well the guild i was in before this one was a guild with a total of 3 people

[balmy condor]

...

[opal minnow]

you do know guilds can have more than 5 people right

guild>party

[normal olive]

Old guild that disbanded in Legion because of personal reasons between everyone and some were still in there when i came back

[opal minnow]

i'd be on wowprog filling out apps

[balmy condor]

^

all day long

[normal olive]

Probably will do that soon

Maybe i'ma join a group that's 6/12 atm for some progress, so then i don't even need a guild for now

[opal minnow]

my guild is taking like a month break after we finish mount farms

i needa find somewhere to raid or something

[tropic eagle]

when playing with exsang, you let the bleed run out right? are you supposed to double garrote before doing it?

[balmy condor]

depends what you mean by "double garrote"

[tropic eagle]

im trying to optimize assassin in m+ cause i cant stand outlaw any tips on maximizing my dps on trash pulls?

[balmy condor]

when you go from stealth, you gar rup gar single target

in the opener

[tropic eagle]

garrote twice in a row to get the maximum time threw pandemic

right

[balmy condor]

you wouldn't want to garrote twice in a row on a target ideally

[tropic eagle]

not twice in a row but yeah you know exactly what i meant

[balmy condor]

but generally yes

in m+, you would garrote on 3 targets, CT, fok to a rupture

that'll give you 4 bleeds up, which should be enough energy, might need a 5th depending on your haste

[tropic eagle]

what should i be doing with all the nrgy

[balmy condor]

and then its just fok and envenom and CT

[tropic eagle]

gotcha

[balmy condor]

maintaining your dots for energy, and fok away

[tropic eagle]

is fok only worth with 5+ targets?

or is 3 enough?

[balmy condor]

fok on 3, 4 with DD, 2 with EB

[tropic eagle]

would it be possible to log a +15 and you guys point out some mistakes i made?

or is that only possible in a raid setting

[balmy condor]

it would be difficult

but I'm down

the log UI is a little bit rubbish for m+

hard to see multi-target

[tropic eagle]

i appreciate that man i dont have anything right now but ill keep it in mind

[balmy condor]

but its definitely doable

[tropic eagle]

i figured so

[shell ivy]

hey, i've just got my full expedient3 build ready yesterday, applying everything u guys suggested to me on my top gear sim a few weeks ago, now i dont know what i should upgrade, could someone maybe take their time to help me out once more? i would be rly grateful! here's my sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kpbCF5otsijFTc4YTqyQGs

[hollow panther]

I'd like to see too. Not as a mistake pointer-outer but I'm a complete noob and want to learn

[balmy condor]

maybe we can hop in a discord call and I'll screenshare then idk

we can figure something out XD

let me look at that sim for you meftly

[tropic eagle]

u have a key rn u can run?

[balmy condor]

im horde NA

doubtful that you're able to run keys with me

[tropic eagle]

na u said screenshare

[balmy condor]

oh I see what you mean

[tropic eagle]

i thought u meant like stream a key

[balmy condor]

idk how easy it would be for me to find a key atm

also tyran is yucky

[tropic eagle]

i just misunderstood what u meant

[shell ivy]

thanks a lot whispyr

[balmy condor]

yeah is all good

remind me in a dm

I'll try and figure something out

[tropic eagle]

gotcha

thx a lot

[shell ivy]

iirc u were the one who gave me that insane top gear few weeks ago

rly nice of u

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna be honest, no clue, I go through a lot of sims it all becomes a blur

[shell ivy]

now i gotta get going with this build and rly fun rotation

[balmy condor]

but I'm glad to help

:)

[shell ivy]

ya i read a lot on the chat

it's rly nice u take ur time for anyone who asks

[umbral rapids]

Whispyr MVP

[shell ivy]

Whispyr MVP

[balmy condor]

whispyr bored

I'm not special guys

just a little bit of practice and you guys won't need me at all

I'm just here to start you on your way tbh

[shell ivy]

🥺

[tropic eagle]

is assassin pretty far behind outlaw in m+?

[balmy condor]

its playable

outlaw has an edge

but you can do like 24-25's with sin

shouldn't be an issue

[tropic eagle]

thats exactly my thoughts

[shell ivy]

i'm outlaw main and im' thinking of playing sin on tyra weeks

• its so fun

[tropic eagle]

bleeds make it interesting

[balmy condor]

I'm an outlaw hater

[tropic eagle]

SAME

[shell ivy]

:(

[balmy condor]

:P

[shell ivy]

gonna bench myself from this chat

[tropic eagle]

outlaw players are not true rogues

[hollow panther]

I've never played it and I don't have swords so I can't be bothered

[tropic eagle]

(jk)

[balmy condor]

hey we get alacrity and slice and dice just like they do in shadow lands

we have to share all the garbage

like a big happy family

[tropic eagle]

is it not looking good

[normal olive]

Slice and dice with dots uptime

[tropic eagle]

have legendary effects for rogues came out

[balmy condor]

slice and dice and alacrity is pretty boring

we're gonna be fine damage wise, that's just numbers

[normal olive]

just one more boring button to press

[tropic eagle]

keeping buffs up is not challenging

[balmy condor]

but maintaining dots, slice and dice, and replacing an active on a talent row with a passive

[normal olive]

yeah it's just boring

[balmy condor]

not too great

I'll still play it tho

cause I'm like that

[tropic eagle]

what about sub?

[normal olive]

I can't click that much

[tropic eagle]

id love to play it

[balmy condor]

sub is looking okay

[tropic eagle]

i have not seen any of the rogue leggo effects so no idea

[balmy condor]

they have some decent changes

its a step in the right direction

but we don't know yet

[tropic eagle]

is there something they havent shown?

[balmy condor]

yeah, conduits and lego's

[tropic eagle]

🙏

rngBless

[balmy condor]

papi seriallos needs to give me more iterations

these sims are huge

[normal olive]

aren't there still talents missing and the one covenant ability?

[balmy condor]

nah they added the talents

[normal olive]

oh when did that happen

[balmy condor]

we were waiting to see what would replace toxic blade

and they added alacrity instead

no idea I'm not keeping up with the patch by patch changes tbh

that's koji's job

getting us the prepatch sims

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

I'd help him if I could, i've done coding before

but the simcraft github is spooky

and c++

and they got like janky libraries from 2012 and shit

[normal olive]

dafuq

[balmy condor]

idk, I looked into it for like an hour on a wednesday

and then said "yeah maybe some other time"

[normal olive]

Well as long as Night Fae is usable i'ma go with that

[balmy condor]

I'm usable

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

what was that yellow dude's name from earlier

@shell ivy

you

[shell ivy]

hi

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vM19WFTCJf8zAon6XpQZHw

have some damage

[shell ivy]

awesome, wait i'm confused how did i get more dps from the strithrough wrist

[normal olive]

Wanna check my stuff? it get's pretty annoing with only 300k thingys

[shell ivy]

and severe hand

[balmy condor]

but also you should get rid of the ineffable at some point

that's pretty gross

crit and strikethrough aint bad homie

[shell ivy]

dunno what to replace with, just got my outlaww gear there

[tropic eagle]

wait did you make that guys gear set with what items he has?

[shell ivy]

oh, i thought stacking full exp was the go to

[balmy condor]

send it navi

lets do this

yes I did skuz

[normal olive]

okay what's the best way

[balmy condor]

and it is meftly

top gear navi

[tropic eagle]

how do i send you

[balmy condor]

too many conversations

[tropic eagle]

lmao

[balmy condor]

aight

aight

[normal olive]

just a normal topgear and you can get it from there?

[balmy condor]

one at a time

yes

[tropic eagle]

go with navi

[balmy condor]

sim yourself with a top gear sim

send me the link

[shell ivy]

thats so great, thanks again @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

make sure you use the addon import and not armory

[normal olive]

i'm on it!

[balmy condor]

now

to meftly

[normal olive]

yeah i allways use the addon

[balmy condor]

yes expedient is the way to go

and I can sim you with full exped and get you like 115k sims hypothetically

but given the gear you have

strikes and severes are just decent hold-overs

sin suffers from a bad case of the "sim-its"

we have a lot of stuff that's kinda okay

and all our stats are pretty useful

[shell ivy]

ye makes sense

[balmy condor]

so its not as easy as "hurr durr me haste and exped"

especially if you don't have the poggers gear to begin with

[shell ivy]

what would be the poggers gear, what should i look for

i'd guess my daggers for sure

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vXagcZm1kSdQBxCwqj6uuq

I have a chrome window with resources

precisely for this

[shell ivy]

i'm trying to get heroic carapace + wrathion mythic

[normal olive]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c4zG3Tm8Me2Fw9VB2geAse

and i got 3 exp 3 in my bags if that's important

[balmy condor]

that is very important

[normal olive]

and 1 exp 2

[balmy condor]

out of all the things you could sim

you chose to sim gems

the slowest sim of them all

smh

[drifting cosmos]

Lol

[normal olive]

was the last thing i did i can do something else real quick

[balmy condor]

nah nah

I have it now

I'm just making fun of you for waiting 15 minutes on a sim that could've been done 10 minutes ago

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

this stuff actually ain't half bad

for no mecha rings

this is kinda poppin

[tropic eagle]

are mecha rings bis?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[normal olive]

i never get the right ones

[balmy condor]

behind/haste

[tropic eagle]

FML

[normal olive]

allways get the wrong ones

[tropic eagle]

i have behind but no haste

[balmy condor]

farm more workshops

[normal olive]

yeah gotta do that

[tropic eagle]

good to know

are they also bis in raid?

[balmy condor]

that's where they're bis

you don't use them in m+

[tropic eagle]

oooooh ok gotcha

[balmy condor]

unless its a tyran week or a workshop key or something

where you take your raid set

[tropic eagle]

cause the icd right

[balmy condor]

cause you need the single target

no its cause haste sucks in m+

[tropic eagle]

the top io rogue in m+ stacks haste i think

im so confused man

[balmy condor]

the top io sin rogue is my buddie @warped temple

and he does not stack haste

he stacks crit/vers

:)

not actually my buddy

[tropic eagle]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Exâr#season=season-bfa-4 this guy

[balmy condor]

I just talk to him

he's a nice guy

yeah he doesn't play sin in keys

that's a raid set

look at his keys

[tropic eagle]

interesting

[balmy condor]

that stuff he has equipped at the top is just his last logout

so he logged in a raid set

but if you look at what he used in the keys, he's playing outlaw on all of them

[tropic eagle]

what do i click on to see what he used in that key

oh fuck

[balmy condor]

scroll down a lil

he's also not the top rogue though

so idk bout that

[tropic eagle]

well it was the first one that i saw assassin

[balmy condor]

aha

[tropic eagle]

ur right im looking at it wrong

ive seen that guy you mentioned ryfie

he owns

but also playes outlaw ya?

[balmy condor]

https://raider.io/characters/us/zuljin/Ryfie

he plays sin only

rank 1 sin rogue

[tropic eagle]

so TB is bis for m+?

or depends on week

[balmy condor]

kinda weird to call a talent BiS

but yes

[tropic eagle]

yeah bad word

[balmy condor]

you take tb in m+ if you're not using the raid set

[tropic eagle]

ok i see exactly what u mean

[balmy condor]

if you listen to ryfie, he'll tell you haste set bad
if you listen to this discord, they'll tell you crit set bad,
if you listen to me, crit set good, haste set situational

and you can take that info however you please

[tropic eagle]

i like that there are options

[balmy condor]

the whole idea of a haste set in m+ vs a crit set has been some harsh debate in this channel

on multiple occasions

[tropic eagle]

but cant u JuST SiM iT

[balmy condor]

lul

yeah.........

no......

how best to sim m+ is sadly also a hot button issue

[tropic eagle]

wdym

[balmy condor]

there's dungeon slice

which technically should be a slice of a dungeon

and it does what its supposed to

the problem is that its not very indicative of a dungeon and how sin would play that dungeon

the tool works for what its meant to, it just isn't a good model

so then you sim multi-boss, with a short timer

which is just aoe

which also isn't really a good model

and then you throw in tyranical vs fortified and bolstering and teeming and all sorts of variables

[tropic eagle]

is it because of the class

[balmy condor]

and you end up with a disaster cause there's too many variables and situations

is what because of the class

[tropic eagle]

these problems

is it the same with a hunter

or can they sim m+ better

[balmy condor]

its hit and miss

[tropic eagle]

figured

[balmy condor]

outlaw for example, those guys love dungeon slice

but outlaw also is hit button do aoe

[tropic eagle]

ive never heard that term dungeon slice

[balmy condor]

its a fight type in raidbots and simcraft

which is technically one and the same

but super technically simcraft is the addon and simulationcraft is the program

and raidbots is the GUI

but also raidbots runs servers that run the sims so its not just a gui

[tropic eagle]

Right

[balmy condor]

idk too many terms and minutia

[tropic eagle]

i mean all we need to know is its just a computer solving equations, right?

and it has its limits

[balmy condor]

yeah basically

and the more complicated you make it, the harder it gets

[tropic eagle]

exactly

[balmy condor]

1 target unmoving for 5 minutes

thats ez pz

[tropic eagle]

tldr m+ siming sucks atm

[balmy condor]

a 35 minute dungeon with 4 bosses and 5 players and varying pulls sizes and shit

not ez pz

m+ simming will suck for a long time

[tropic eagle]

what is the problem? it cant be processing power?

[balmy condor]

I mean

if you want it to be accurate

it will be

raidbots runs hundreds of millions of iterations a minute

and people are still stuck in queue waiting for their sim for 15 minutes

[tropic eagle]

are they limited by funds?

[balmy condor]

computers just can't handle that sort of processing very quickly

if you have premium, you get a full dedicated 64 cores, threadrippers that they have those servers

[tropic eagle]

right, its not like they have nasa funding to simulate black holes

[balmy condor]

but you try and sim gems

you're gonna be sitting there a loooong time

[tropic eagle]

i just didnt think wow simulating could be nearly as complicated

[balmy condor]

its not as complicated, but it still millions of iterations of the same thing over and over

[tropic eagle]

why does adding +50 crit 8 times require so much more

[balmy condor]

its not as easy as "I hit the dummy for 5 minutes, lets do that 5 million times"

[tropic eagle]

ah yeah i get it

%

[balmy condor]

cause simulating always tries to get a smaller margin of error

[tropic eagle]

yep

[weary badger]

exsang better with DS?

[balmy condor]

DS is used with exsang

exsang does not make DS better

[weary badger]

at what hsate % do we switch to exsang over TB

rightoos

[balmy condor]

roughly 30% for most people

but that's a very generalized number

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p7NpoB3shfZ2nKjzXuB8hN

@normal olive

:)

[normal olive]

[weary badger]

whats the opener rotation for exsang + BoTE?

[balmy condor]

guide in the pins

[tropic eagle]

what do i need to link you that shows what gear i have and whats the most optimal?

[balmy condor]

read that

answers most of your questions

[normal olive]

damn that means i actually did pretty good with my scuffed sims

[balmy condor]

if you still have questions I'll be happy to help you after :)

did you do a top gear sim skuz?

[tropic eagle]

a top gear sim is exactly what?

[balmy condor]

aha

do you use raidbots at all

[normal olive]

@balmy condor

[tropic eagle]

ah nvm

[balmy condor]

love you too bb

[tropic eagle]

i gotcha

[balmy condor]

now go farm more mecha rings

making me sad

[normal olive]

Yes boss!

[tropic eagle]

ive actually never did a top gear sim before lmao but yeah i see what it is give me one sec

[balmy condor]

just hit top gear, click on a random piece of gear

and hit sim

I can take it from there

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fdGPXCe94Ky1kSd43QtL5x

[normal olive]

Kinda thought they would be a higher upgrade but 2k aint bad

[tropic eagle]

one sec

[balmy condor]

I mean 2% is nothing to sneeze at

[normal olive]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

and also that's a 465 replacing a 475

but ye

not the craziest I've seen

there was a guy I did sims for, he has vers rings for pvp or something

mecha rings were almost 6k for him

[normal olive]

I'm just happy i'm doing a good job without mythic raiding

[balmy condor]

kinda nutty

tbh mythic raiding gives you azerite

and 485 boots and daggers

and I guess the vita

but its not that much tbh

[normal olive]

yeah

[balmy condor]

the 485 dagger is only really important main hand

[normal olive]

well they are still upgrades

[balmy condor]

the boots are up but not huge huge

[tropic eagle]

so i am missing a garrote helm but i think this is what you wanted me to do https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8kg5XCrDZhFxwD44KcX7d1

[balmy condor]

the azerite is kinda big

that is indeed what I wanted

perfect

oh boy oh boy

a hoarder of gear

this is great

what a fun time

[tropic eagle]

LMAO

[normal olive]

I'm mostly trying to get sims and such done by myself, but help never hurts

[tropic eagle]

i quit playing back in march so i just kept everything i earned

[arctic walrus]

this guy just loves rings

not a true hoarder

[tropic eagle]

i dont know which ones to delete man

[balmy condor]

bruh.jpg

[tropic eagle]

dont wanna regret it

[balmy condor]

makes my job more entertaining though

I've had people link me sims and its like 1 piece in every slot and maybe a blue item that's 50 ilvl down

[tropic eagle]

is a 415 t3 td worth keeping

[balmy condor]

and im like what am I supposed to do with this

[arctic walrus]

I can't even fit all my gear into a picture if I zoom out all the way

[tropic eagle]

on a ring

[balmy condor]

probably not

no

anything under 450 is basically straight to the scrap heap

[tropic eagle]

see things like that i didnt know if itd be worth so i just kept it

[balmy condor]

unless its got exped 3 or strike 3 or something good on it

with decent stats

like I would keep a crit/vers 450 wrist with strike3 on it if it dropped

cause I'm cheap

but like 445 gear and stuff? eh

[tropic eagle]

k i can make room then

[balmy condor]

like the 445's are okay cause they have exped

they're not okay cause they're 445

but they'll do

you know what I mean

[tropic eagle]

right

[balmy condor]

this'll have to be like 4 sims till I get a good idea

how exciting

[red pagoda]

can you take a look at this as well please? I might have a slight hoarding problem as well https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f4dqK9JyzVknoeYyBDjfmt

[balmy condor]

tbh

[tropic eagle]

@balmy condor thanks a lot dude

[balmy condor]

nothing makes me happier than having something to do at 2am

I would love to take a look

[tropic eagle]

i think u are joking

lmao

[balmy condor]

no I'm just a fucking pyschopath

simming is incredibly fun

[normal olive]

Yeah i like simming too

[tropic eagle]

i would love to have a bis raid and m+ set with what i have

but dont have the patients to switch every item one by one

too much to swap thru

[balmy condor]

you can save gear sets though

[tropic eagle]

yeah i have 5

in game

when it comes to stat weights im clueless

[balmy condor]

that's fine

[olive gale]

This might be a stupid question but given the relatively low importance of vers why does Lustrous Golden Plumage perform so well?

[balmy condor]

because we don't have much

[olive gale]

Compared to haste trinkets

[tropic eagle]

good question id like to knwo

[balmy condor]

galecallers will sim higher

but if you think about where our damage comes from with exsang right

you get these huge peaks every 2 minutes

and then pretty deep troughs without our cds

so something like dragonscale from wrathion, while it gives haste, is very consistent haste

it doesn't help our peak as much as something else would

plumage is one such item

we don't stack vers in single target, but that doesn't make it bad

[tropic eagle]

interesting

[balmy condor]

you still get like 12% from a 475 plumage or something

its a lot of vers

and the ability to time that with your big damage

is what gives it value

[red pagoda]

it happens to last as long as vendetta, so that's nice as well

[balmy condor]

given the choice, would you multiply 200k dps by 12%

or 60k dps by 25%

obviously whatever numbers

but the point stands

[olive gale]

Ah ok, makes sense

[balmy condor]

you're getting more out of buffing the peak

than you do buffing everything

[tropic eagle]

Galecaller's Boon why is it so high on bloodmallet?

[balmy condor]

cause its BiS

[tropic eagle]

in m+ or raid

both?

depends?

[balmy condor]

raid

we don't use haste in m+

[tropic eagle]

but you said

[balmy condor]

I say many thing

[tropic eagle]

so the argument haste vs crit is raid only

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s5VQsLucry6MaLb9vuRNJs

this is the first pass btw

already 14k lmao

[tropic eagle]

for m+ right

[balmy condor]

the argument haste vs crit is m+ only

raid is haste for sure

what am I hm

[tropic eagle]

so this build you linked is for what

[balmy condor]

that's a raid set

were you looking for a m+ set?

[tropic eagle]

sorry i should have said that

yes

[balmy condor]

that's my bad

[tropic eagle]

what i linked was my m+ sety

[balmy condor]

no wonder you had EB equipped

[tropic eagle]

my bad man

[balmy condor]

yeah

I was wondering

but 2am brain didn't think that far

[tropic eagle]

its all good

i think im really at a disadvantage without my 3rd garrote trait

[balmy condor]

indeed you are

[tropic eagle]

i did have one i must have gotten rid of it its not in my restore pannel

[balmy condor]

unfortunate

[tropic eagle]

i might be able to get ra den helm this week have a few people that wear leather can pug it with

[balmy condor]

you're trying to stay under 40 yeah?

[tropic eagle]

i think thats ideal for m+ isnt it

[balmy condor]

you can go 60

[tropic eagle]

do it up then

[balmy condor]

aight

If im doing a high key I'm not comfortable with I'll do 40 sometime

[tropic eagle]

i play with the same healer every time so ill tell him

[balmy condor]

I think its fine tho

@red pagoda just making sure you're looking for a raid set yeah?

[red pagoda]

yep

[balmy condor]

aight

[red pagoda]

progressing on cara atm

[balmy condor]

mythic cara with this stuff

that's pretty brave

[red pagoda]

why?

[balmy condor]

just a lil janky

I'm just not a fan of TTK

that's all

[red pagoda]

me neither

didnt get the ilgynoth shoulders on thursday sadly

[balmy condor]

29 corruption as well

its fine though

you're under 40 yeah?