assassination

[opal minnow]

Might actually keep up in dps

[balmy condor]

sin is pretty mid of the pack tho

like I think we're a little weak

but its not that bad

our burst is pretty nutty

[fallow otter]

Yeh but we got some cloak util

[balmy condor]

the top 3-4 specs are a little too strong

[ancient cosmos]

should i go for 8x exp or should i go 4x exp and 4x severe

[fallow otter]

But in general you should just take aBM

[balmy condor]

you waht

don't go severe for raid

you could also sim it

[lethal arrow]

Is it normal for your dps to fall a lot before your second vendetta/vanish etc

[balmy condor]

yeah

[ancient cosmos]

so 8x for exp3 is fine for raids

[opal minnow]

Yes

[balmy condor]

its what you should do

[ancient cosmos]

thanks

[balmy condor]

and yeah that drop off is normal

[lethal arrow]

im practicing on a target dummy and i start at 150k eventually do like 70k ish then back to 150k

[opal minnow]

That's normal

[lethal arrow]

ok

i thought i was just a dogshit player

[balmy condor]

kinda ridiculous

[lethal arrow]

yah see like that scares me so much

lol

[warm parcel]

Its called cooldowns

[fallow otter]

Long term you only want 7x exp3 @ancient cosmos

[warm parcel]

They do dmg

[lethal arrow]

i know

[fallow otter]

But I'm running 8 atm

[balmy condor]

this one is even crazier

[ancient cosmos]

and whtt should i got for my other corruptions

[balmy condor]

exped

[lethal arrow]

my brain just freaks out cuz it reads 60 or 70k when i sim at 90 and i just end up thinking im doing eveyrthing wrong

[balmy condor]

you just go exped

and eventually you'll get a HM3

[shrewd night]

Russian logs

[balmy condor]

russian logs dude

pog

[lethal arrow]

russia and china are lightyears ahead of us

[balmy condor]

in what regard

[lethal arrow]

theyre playing 4d mahjong while we're playing checkers

[fallow otter]

1x exp2 and then a honed or racing depending on if you get a 475 drive and gear

[balmy condor]

being barely top 10 in everything?

[fallow otter]

Dice*

[lethal arrow]

maybe not in that regard lol

but i feel like whenever theres a video of someone breaking a raid mechanic etc, its a chinese or russian person who discovers it

[balmy condor]

yeah like the monk thing on star augur in nighthold

[warm parcel]

[balmy condor]

or rextroy, famous russian paladin

[warm parcel]

God dam hs out of raid

[lethal arrow]

that one chinese guild skipping the M nzoth hidden phase is kinda neat

[balmy condor]

limit did it first though

[lethal arrow]

did they?

[balmy condor]

and blizzard had to literally reset all the N'zoths on the entire realm

[lethal arrow]

ok but thats when blizzard reset the boss

[balmy condor]

cause limit was hard cheesing

[lethal arrow]

blizzard hates fun

[balmy condor]

they just stayed out of the portal and healed through it

and pumped boss

and they were gonna kill it before blizzard had to despawn it for every raid on every difficulty

on all of illidan

[lethal arrow]

you know what might be a good idea

probably swapping to a pst/cst realm off of est

especially when i live in pst

[balmy condor]

I'm on a52 and im pst

the raid scene is all est

[forest vigil]

I'm simming and it says that zero nothing personal is actually > an extra shrouded suffocation

is this shit wack?

[lethal arrow]

that was my thought initially, i didnt know if it changed for pst recently

[balmy condor]

it says that zero nothing personal

is better than an extra shrouded

[balmy condor]

how am I supposed to understand that

[forest vigil]

I couldve

just added that

[fallow otter]

Link sim

[forest vigil]

my bad

it's 5 am

[balmy condor]

yeah that makes sense

but what the fuck kinda talents are you doing dude

[fallow otter]

TB

[forest vigil]

oh I dont have expedient

yet

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pYmbW9RgsE8NqLXtFyv2Sb

I'm not running bleed build yet

[fallow otter]

Exang question mark

[balmy condor]

CLEAVE?

[lethal arrow]

i have like 7 exped and im sittin at 64% haste

[forest vigil]

oh woops

kek

[balmy condor]

is this a fever dream

[fallow otter]

Then why are you using SS

[forest vigil]

dude I listen to the sims

I'm a slave

[lethal arrow]

whyd you set it to cleave tho

[forest vigil]

just realized it was set to cleave

and biasing

kek

[lethal arrow]

🤔

[warm parcel]

Free yourself

[forest vigil]

here's my excuse

runs away

[warm parcel]

Uninstall rb

Do what feels right

[fallow otter]

Ohhh this for m plus?

[lethal arrow]

i was gunna say holy shit u have no exped and you're 15k simmed above me

[forest vigil]

LOL yeah I fucked up haha

[steel ridge]

I am at 90% exp and 68% haste unbuffed 😦

[balmy condor]

is it m+?

I'm so confused

like I'm actually lost

[lethal arrow]

9 exped?

[forest vigil]

no @balmy condor i fucked up the sim

[balmy condor]

9 exped = 90%

what

its getting worse

[fallow otter]

Hahaha

[balmy condor]

the walls are talking to me

[lethal arrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jzag5rQsedAvWyo6s5p3pe

my dps is nuts

[balmy condor]

why are we all simming cleave add

[fallow otter]

Hey you know CT can get parried?

[balmy condor]

what the fuck is going on

[fallow otter]

Lol

[balmy condor]

y'all gonna make me actually lose my mind

[lethal arrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g8YdQs5Nw5gvyG4tYcedS7

actual sim tho

i wish i had a second shard

[balmy condor]

or like 7 sockets

[lethal arrow]

yes or that

[balmy condor]

what you doin with all your mementos bb

[lethal arrow]

uh buying sockets?

i started playing on 5/30

[balmy condor]

where they at though

[lethal arrow]

😓

[balmy condor]

oh

[lethal arrow]

a little late to xpac

[balmy condor]

that makes sense

[lethal arrow]

i think for a month of play, this is decent progress

gotta keep practicing rotation tho

exsang+CT is kind of awkward after playing toxic blade for so long

[fallow otter]

@lethal arrow I now that pain, I got my 2nd one lastnight

[balmy condor]

just maintain the buffs

and hit envenom otherwise

[fallow otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5XUNM4UrcEnZpwMZzktQeX

Now sim feels big

[balmy condor]

god gamer

[fallow otter]

If I was good xanesh wouldn't parry my CT

Plz halp

[shrewd night]

fucking dog tier gamer

imagine getting parried

on an aoe ability

[dire spoke]

[fallow otter]

Ikr feelsbadman lol

[balmy condor]

aight I'm sensing some passive aggressiveness towards me and my incompetence to know anything about this game

I just came here for a good time koffing

[shrewd night]

I was roasting stunk tho

not u

[lethal arrow]

ok dude

[shrewd night]

u bae

[fallow otter]

I literally didn't know, hence why I dug up my log

[lethal arrow]

jesus

thats some fucking dps

big ass balls running 59 corruption

[dire spoke]

I'm at 64 and I hate it

[lethal arrow]

i could be at 64 if i put another exped 3 on this dagger

but i wanna get either another shard or a 475 howlis to replace it first

[main forge]

I went and used my two gushing pieces just so I hit 39... Its great on progression.... Top dps for those first two minutes...

Two pump two minute chump

[fallow otter]

That's with a tendy

Lame af

[lethal arrow]

i wanna do a little pvp so im saving for gushing now

just bought like 3 backup exped 3s incase i get upgrades

[main forge]

I should have went full on with gushing... I got 7... should have got all 9 or 10

[dire spoke]

[lethal arrow]

pika runs 9 in arena

and idk how he doesnt just die

but he's good at the game so what do i know

[main forge]

I don't get it at all... rogue just feels super weak. I swear I flop over like a wet noodle if I get looked at wrong

even with 20% versa

[lethal arrow]

i feel that, ive been doing arena lately and i hit 1600 and suddenly ppl just 1 shot me

and i dont do dmg

gushing makes a huge difference i suppose

[strange python]

it does ye

[main forge]

can't do damage and stay alive, it does help

[strange python]

but you dont need it at 1600

[main forge]

I hate having to run a pvp set and a raid set

like if I am out in the world... why can't I have just one set of gear

[strange python]

play outlaw and u can 🙂

[manic pebble]

I have 1 set but still doing fine

[main forge]

crit just needs a buff in pvp.

[manic pebble]

exsang build btw

[main forge]

exsang just feels funny... it runs, but it doesn't feel like it pumps as hard as gushing does

[lethal arrow]

building outlaw/pvp assass/pve haste assass at the same time sounds like a good way to lose your mind

[strange python]

Thats me :))

[main forge]

it freaking is.

Worse is I rather play assass in M+

[strange python]

although my pvp assa gear is extremely trash

[manic pebble]

I wish shadowlands will bring back pvp gears

[strange python]

Im running -1 corruption in pvp 8)

[manic pebble]

make it buyable from the vendors only

[strange python]

cant spite me atleast

:))

[lethal arrow]

no annoying slow

sounds good in my book

[strange python]

idk 3 exp works at low rating

xD

[main forge]

I wish they had separate pvp gear slots... like that effected world pvp and arena, but got upgraded as you did more pvp

[manic pebble]

yea

[main forge]

like a bonus slot to head neck, shoulders and all... where you put your pvp gear in... and that took effect in pvp

but had no effect on pve

[lethal arrow]

they should let us also wear 4 rings

[main forge]

5 rings to rule them

[manic pebble]

10 rings pls

we have 10 fingers

[main forge]

brass knuckles instead

[strange python]

5 stones*

[manic pebble]

oh wait some races have less

[strange python]

I wanna be thanos 8)

[lethal arrow]

just rogues tho

fuck the other classes

[strange python]

locks are OP enough anyways

[lethal arrow]

DH and locks don't feel like they were designed by someone who cares about balance

i dont really understand DH gets away with having the most utility, the most survivability, the most damage and is anti stealth in arena

[warm parcel]

cause they dont

theres a reason nearly no top tier comp runs dh

is it a pub stomper? absolutely

[warm hazel]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.

[lethal arrow]

Ive been playing 2s mostly lately so I guess that doesnt help either

[balmy condor]

I love whenever someone uses that bot command

its funny every time

[warm hazel]

yep ...

[balmy condor]

:p

[somber fractal]

can anyone with beta confirm that they actually removed serrated bone spike or if it was bad datamining?

[balmy condor]

rogue's dont get beta

[somber fractal]

makes sense since there are no legos, conduits, or anima powers for us yet

[balmy condor]

sin is missing talents

[somber fractal]

is it i thought sub was the only one with legit "coming soon" talents

[balmy condor]

nop

sin is arguably less developed

[somber fractal]

sin is just the same as live with SnD added and toxic blade baseline

[balmy condor]

yep

and I think 3 missing talents

and no soulbinds

maybe 2

[somber fractal]

talent tree is complete on wowhead

[balmy condor]

oh really

oh you're right

they did give us alacrity in the end

that's awful

koji's worst nightmare come to life

venom rush is terribly bad and exsang needs too much in stats to be of value

[somber fractal]

alacrity with free toxic blade seems pretty good to me

[balmy condor]

alacrity for the whole expac here we go

what's good depends on numbers

right now we care about the actual gameplay

and alacrity is a boring talent

that means we have toxic blade baseline, and then most likely passive on rows 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and poison bomb to top it off on 7

unless blindside gets buffed

our entire talent tree

is passives that we don't really play around

the stealth row with subterfuge/nightstalker/ma is the most interesting row

and that, is what sucks

[lethal arrow]

jeez that 45 row doesnt look fun at all

[fathom swift]

does the spec really need a redesign

[balmy condor]

it needs something more interesting that maintain 2 bleeds and slice and dice

and hit everything on cd

[fathom swift]

idk i think it'll get that from the covenant abilities

[balmy condor]

I sure hope so

seems pretty boring baseline

borrowed power btw

[fathom swift]

only one that looks mega boring to play is the venthyr one

[balmy condor]

I'll be taking whatever the m+ ends up being

[fathom swift]

maybe they'll buff blindside enough you get some cool proc gameplay too

[balmy condor]

cause I'm that guy

I have hope for blindside

[wraith cosmos]

!corruption

[balmy condor]

!expedient

[shut garnet]

blindside seems fairly interesting

w the free ambush shenanigans

[rocky ruin]

as far as looks there is no class changes in the alpha updates for sin rogues. Maybe they think sin is already fine

boring but fine in there eyes

[balmy condor]

There’s definitely changes

They’re just not very interesting

Shiv comes back as a toxic blade baseline, we all get slice and dice, toxic blade’s talent spot got replaced by the much much more boring alacrity, we all get ambush

And that’s about it

[rocky ruin]

yes that deadly poison application from stealth is 100% nothing more i can remembered

[balmy condor]

That’s kinda whatever imo

That’s QoL more than anything

[shut garnet]

technically thats a plus though, cuz if toxic blade goes baseline and we get another talent on top of that

thats gud shit

[rocky ruin]

ye TB baked in Shiv and SnD is nothing new from the first alpha update and we got alacrity

[shut garnet]

that talent could definitely be better buut

[rocky ruin]

Problem is TB is still a proc and rng and everything else its like maintain and thats it
thats why they think sin is already fine

[amber quail]

QUESTION: how manu of you are saying this in official forum?

[shut garnet]

huh?

[rocky ruin]

who write in the forum?

[shut garnet]

wdym tb is rng

[rocky ruin]

i mean poison bomb

not tb

[amber quail]

May e them can follow good suggestion if anyone go there

[balmy condor]

They don’t give rogue the time of day

[rocky ruin]

in the forum they all cried for gouge

[balmy condor]

Forums do nothing

It’s an actual cesspool

[shut garnet]

assa with gouge

[balmy condor]

People shit on class discords

Have never been to forums

[amber quail]

Forum is The directly Line to dev

[balmy condor]

Lmao

Yeah and I’m the king of Mongolia

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

Direct line to non-existent rogue devs

Sounds good

[amber quail]

All other place are simple wine

Useless words

[rocky ruin]

in the forum the post about rogue are mostly sub, some outlaw and less assa response

[shut garnet]

forums = useless words

[balmy condor]

Sorry I like talking about things with my buds

Guess that’s not okay anymore

[shut garnet]

point is tc is always fine

[amber quail]

The official way is useless 😂

[balmy condor]

It is

[shut garnet]

but i highly doubt any of this will have some impact on wow dev decision making

[amber quail]

Ok you right👍

[balmy condor]

Forums haven’t lead to any meaningful change

It’s just a place where people kick and scream

[amber quail]

This is offtopic and i have not time to waste

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

Would you care to tell me what they did to sub after the cry in forums from uldir?

[amber quail]

Go in official and male a good post with suggestion, if all The community go there something will change

[balmy condor]

Cause there’s been plenty of screeching and crying in forums about sub for the last year and a half

Bro I’m a pretty positive guy most of the time

But even you’re too much for me

[shut garnet]

did u just come into a spec channel to direct us to forums

“go make thread we change thing”

[balmy condor]

I honestly wish I could be half as optimistic as you

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

Kinda jealous of it tbh

I wanna be deaf to reality how does one learn this skill

[rocky ruin]

you cant go to forum yelled or whatever. Most rogue post is sadly only about gouge need to baseline and devs are stupid
and bla bla bla, sub here sub there

and its really hard to read stuff when ppl in there write wow pvp is the true game and raids are just minigame

[balmy condor]

It’s just a joke regardless

Anyway

Where were we before we were rudely interrupted by mr sunshine

[rocky ruin]

you mean me? @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

No

The optimist who believes we can change the world through a message board

We were talking about poison bomb or something?

I personally think pb would be fine if there were other options in the row

Cause that row is hidden blades, aoe only, ct, Aoe only

And then poison bomb, which mysteriously performs way better single target than the other two

At least without the giga haste we have now

So you’re forced into poison bomb single target

Because there’s nothing else on that row that could fill the single target gap

[rocky ruin]

But if poison bomb got not the actual randomness than it would be good

[balmy condor]

I mean if it weren’t random it would need a redesign

What would it be otherwise

Once every 20 seconds?

Every fifth envenom?

Like that’s janky as hell

And there will be ways to abuse that stuff

[sullen pagoda]

poison bomb is incredibly bad talent

[rocky ruin]

For the most part yes

[sullen pagoda]

for all of it, like the design of it is just yikes

[balmy condor]

Yeah

The problem is the alternatives aren’t better

[rocky ruin]

And if pb does kinda do the same dmg what it does in legion then its like kinda fishing for it

[sullen pagoda]

it procs and it deals damage no play around no synergy or impact on your playstyle

it just does damage

[balmy condor]

Our whole bottom row is just bad

[sullen pagoda]

something like that

should never be a talent

[balmy condor]

CT is great imo

Love it

But it shouldn’t share talent rows with pb

[rocky ruin]

Yes cause its button you can actual press. Even kingsbane return would kinda make feel better

Pb is more like a cleave talent then single target imo

[balmy condor]

I think CT should go baseline, hidden blades reworked or changed into a single target of some sort, a single target talent in place of CT, and a rework of poison bomb that’s a button press of some kind

Like replace pb with kingsbane

I’d be fine with that

[sullen pagoda]

both poison bomb and hidden blades should just straight up be removed from the game

[balmy condor]

Yeah agreed

Venom rush as well

[rocky ruin]

Yes cause its only for single target and you feel better when you know have control over it

[balmy condor]

Those 3 talents gotta go

And I firmly believe in baseline CT

I don’t see why not

Sin has no aoe baseline

We have to rely on expansion mechanics and talents for aoe

Fok damage is awful, poison damage hasn’t been high enough to do meaningful aoe

CT deserves to be baseline

[rocky ruin]

But we can dream

[balmy condor]

We out here struggling for aoe while bm hunters literally just cleave for free and fire mages spread ignite without any thought

Dh’s eyebeam

And we’re like pls slow down fok damage is really bad send help

[fervent jasper]

I did a +24 shrine a few hours ago with another rogue (who's better than I am) and he was playing PB. It did less than 2k overall whereas my CT did like 9k overall

[balmy condor]

He played pb in shrine?

What a maniac

[fervent jasper]

Yeah he did

It was Miyavi so I assume there was a method to the madness

The dude is just good

We actually timed too

[balmy condor]

Idk maybe he’s trying something

Was he playing a crit build?

[fervent jasper]

Yeah, we had the exact same corruptions and azerite traits

Crit/severe with 3 SS 3 EB

[balmy condor]

Well I guess maybe he took the pb thinking the boss damage he’s gaining from it makes up for the loss in aoe from not taking CT

Cause it’s a tyran week and you wouldn’t CT single target with a crit build

But man PB sucks so bad

[fervent jasper]

I just cant think of any situation where an extra 1k dps on the boss outweighs an extra 7-9k on trash

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean neither can I

[fervent jasper]

And I doubt he was like "afraid" of the bosses since it was just a 24

Even tyrannical

[balmy condor]

I mean if he was afraid he would go a haste build

[fervent jasper]

But again he probably knows better than me, so there's gotta have been a reason

[uncut schooner]

[balmy condor]

I don’t think so tbh

Like he’s either trying something

Or he’s wrong

I don’t see a world where PB makes sense given current meta’s and corruptions

[fervent jasper]

I mean if I had to take a guess I'd say it was something along the lines if "iys just a 24 I dont feel like an extra button"

But idk

[balmy condor]

Yeah I guess

It’s definitely not great tho

Idk

[fervent jasper]

No I agree, I compared the logs afterwards looking to see if anything he and I were doing was drastically different and PB did not perform at all

Esp in such a high count dungeon

[balmy condor]

Did you outdps him

[fervent jasper]

No he did 125k overall and I did 124k overall. Basically the same

But hes also just better than me

[balmy condor]

Gottem

[strange python]

At what time do you guys use galecaller on pull (exsanguinate)?

[balmy condor]

Before the exsang

I cast it with vendetta

[strange python]

I'll try that, ty 🙂

[balmy condor]

Np

[shrewd night]

[umbral rapids]

@spice rock my macro doesn’t use plumage like half the time 🤔

[balmy condor]

Have you tried not being bad

[umbral rapids]

/cast vendetta
/use 14

Bruh

That’s toxic

[balmy condor]

Wrong whispyr btw

[umbral rapids]

Oh fuck

[balmy condor]

Lmao @ that random guy

[umbral rapids]

kekw

[balmy condor]

How you doin brother nice name

[uncut walrus]

Is there a cheap sin corruption build?

im playing str/sev for outlaw

[umbral rapids]

Dude wtf help me

Expedient is the shop, buy expedient, ggs

[balmy condor]

You could play str/sev for sin

[uncut walrus]

Can buy 4 actually

[balmy condor]

Kinda works

It’s just not the best

[umbral rapids]

Depends if you want m+ or raid build tbh

I won’t have enough for an 8th expedient

[uncut walrus]

raid tbh

[balmy condor]

If you’re trying to raid, you can use the str/sev with TB

But exped is the way to go

[umbral rapids]

If your macro wants to use plumage :)

It’s like it coinflips and goes « hmm am i gonna use it this time »

[uncut schooner]

plumage + vita is the right trinket setup to use right?

for st damage.

[balmy condor]

Vita + gale if you’re a god gamer

But plumage is a good secondary

[uncut schooner]

Gotcha.

Beginning the grind now so wish me luck.

KR 15 on tyrannical

:^)

[umbral rapids]

Good luck

[uncut walrus]

whats TB ?

[umbral rapids]

Toxic blade

[balmy condor]

Toxic blade

[umbral rapids]

Slow

[balmy condor]

Mobile

[umbral rapids]

Same

[uncut walrus]

Ah yh

[balmy condor]

4:30am in bed

[umbral rapids]

I’ll give you that

Sleep padawan

[uncut walrus]

wasnt expecting to have anything good with Str/Sev and exsanguinate tbh

[balmy condor]

Nah I’m good

Well

[umbral rapids]

Then fix my macro

[balmy condor]

It’s usable

[umbral rapids]

[balmy condor]

Didn’t say it’s good

[uncut schooner]

Playing with exsanguinate feels weird.

[balmy condor]

Exsang probably won’t sim higher with all that crit

[umbral rapids]

Watching a 150k dps spike is weird ? 🤔

[balmy condor]

Playing with exsang feels great

Heathen

[umbral rapids]

Yeah it feels so good

[uncut schooner]

I'm transitioning from TB give me a break.

Learning rogue is literal rollercoaster.

[balmy condor]

HE WONT ACCEPT THE EXSANG

[umbral rapids]

You don’t overwrite a exsang garrote right @balmy condor ?

[balmy condor]

BANISH HIM TO THE SUB CHANNEL

[arctic walrus]

No

[balmy condor]

No

Never

[umbral rapids]

[arctic walrus]

Nor rupture

[umbral rapids]

Yeah that was a given

[balmy condor]

If empowered, don’t touch

[uncut schooner]

Does the effect of an empowered garrote stack with exsang?

[umbral rapids]

Was wondering more with exsang garrote vs vanish garrote

[arctic walrus]

Rupture was a given but empowered garrote wasn’t

[balmy condor]

Not sure what you mean by stack

Shrouded suffocation and subterfuge increase garrote damage

Exsang makes garrote tick faster

So yes, they technically ‘stack’

But that’s a weird way to put it tbh

[umbral rapids]

@arctic walrus in opener. I garrote then blabla exsang, then garrote is running out, do you vanish and garrote to get pandemic or do you wait for it to completely run out

[balmy condor]

You exsang

[umbral rapids]

Rup was a given cause exsang is rhe only thing that empowers it

[balmy condor]

And when that drops

You vanish 2 garrotes

[umbral rapids]

That’s what I thought thanks brudda

[uncut schooner]

Wait hold up.

[balmy condor]

Np

[uncut schooner]

Whispyr how do I do this.

My opener is a mess now.

[balmy condor]

Very carefully

[arctic walrus]

Read the guide is a good start

[umbral rapids]

The exsang guide is great

Sit on a dummy and spam that

[balmy condor]

The first step is always to be careful

[arctic walrus]

There is no second step unless you go sub

[shut garnet]

then the second step is spec to assa

[grizzled bough]

Is there a video or something about the new echoing blade build?

[arctic walrus]

@shut garnet

[balmy condor]

The what now

Echoing blade is m+ and not new

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

I assume there’s vods and stuff

But it’s really not anything you need a guide for

[grizzled bough]

I've heard that the abomination of the EB build is back. something similar to early 8.3 with Echoing Void and dual folly

[balmy condor]

Dual folly

That’s cheese as hell

[shut garnet]

youve been watching too much morning wind

that was an island build

lmfao

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[shut garnet]

for early farming this patch

[arctic walrus]

If all else fails infectious probably already mid script on this one

[grizzled bough]

nah, worked fine in m+ if you had 3 items with EV or so :D

[shut garnet]

im sure it did

[balmy condor]

EV

Puke

[grizzled bough]

those were the days!

[shut garnet]

but what you actually do is play 3ss3eb with daggers and crit mast crit vers everything

and go zoom fok fok fok

[feral rune]

what corruptions do you go for as sin rogue?

gonna try gear mine for mythic

[balmy condor]

Exped in raids

[feral rune]

k ty

[grizzled bough]

might try it out, most outlaw gear is crit vers anyway

[balmy condor]

Yeah crit vers is hype

You can use the sev/strikes you have too

[umbral rapids]

ur hype tbh

[grizzled bough]

what corruption you use with that? severe?

[balmy condor]

3x sev3

And the rest strikes

[grizzled bough]

kekw, outlaw gear recycled

[feral rune]

LMAO just checked my gear dont have a single piece of exped

[balmy condor]

Once you get super high keys like 27+ you’ll need to replace strikes with versatiles

[umbral rapids]

Good thing it’s in the shop then

[feral rune]

need to farm a million echoes

[umbral rapids]

Yes

[balmy condor]

But yeah, the 3x eb m+ build is basically a fake outlaw rogue

[feral rune]

just spam 15's for echoes atm ye?

[twin bay]

2v2 if u good in pvp id say

[feral rune]

because ive just been using outlaw for raiding but my ST lacks compared to sin

literally never pvped

can beat my mates in duels and thats about it

[twin bay]

ye then 15's and visions

u can do visions without masks for the same amount of echoes btw...less mementos tho

[feral rune]

weapon wise is cara dagger fine?

[balmy condor]

It’s bis

[grizzled bough]

ideally you cleanse those off and put exped on them as well

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[feral rune]

ok ez

[balmy condor]

aight bed bed time, love you all, make sure to cook your chicken until it reaches an internal temperature of at least 165 degrees Fahrenheit (74 degrees Celsius), salmonella is no joke

[twin bay]

sleep well

[cold nebula]

As someone who's currently playing both m+, raiding, and pvping I'm unsure which corruptions I should stack, I hear that gushing, versatile, and severe are all good choice but is there one that stands out as the best 'all-round' corruption? I don't really have the time nor gear to grind 3 separate sets full of corrupted gear. Sitting around 20k echoes atm so should be able to get around 40 by the time each of the corruptions become available to purchase

[grizzled bough]

gushing, probably

[manic pebble]

I'd go for exsang build

[cold nebula]

That requires a crit focused bleed build right? Master poisoner etc?

[manic pebble]

pretty decent for raiding and m+

[cold nebula]

Tysm 🙂 will try to stack gushing then, cheers for the help

[manic pebble]

mediocre in pvp tho but viable at low rating

[cold nebula]

Eh I'm 1984 in 2s with no corruptions so I think I'll manage

[uncut schooner]

I think you're really going to struggle to gear yourself for all 3 lots of content.

But it depends on how high you're going within that content.

[grizzled bough]

if you need 1 set for all 3 then yea, gushing is the best allrounder. but by no means ideal

[cold nebula]

I'll go gushing then, thanks for the tips guys

[cold nebula]

Re. the exang build will I be using these talents for both M+ and Raids? or do I need to change things up a bit, my gear is ass so I doubt I'll be using CT at any point

[languid magnet]

hey guys. would you put exp3 on this belt, or wait for a better?

[shrewd night]

Have you tried simming it?

Who knows if its even the best piece to put the exp on

[languid magnet]

Well, yea i need exp to my corruption cap, i wont be able to put exp on other gear and keep this corruption anyway

[uncut schooner]

Personally I'm holding onto expeds until I obtain 470+ gear with relevant stat weights.

Crit/mast or crit/haste.

[languid magnet]

thats my gut feeling as well; and thats what ive done with my other expidients so far 🙂

[uncut schooner]

I think its the safest bet.

Even if it means more grinding + waiting.

I don't think its terrible to corrupt 465 gear either if the stats are good, but it is a risk.

Esp. with exped 3 in the vendor now and we'll have to wait a month to get more.

[languid magnet]

ive used exp3 on a 465 bit band

im not gonna wait for that to drop from chest before optimizing it

[uncut schooner]

Nah definitely don't.

I'm still trying to get the rings.

But 460+ is fine to use exped 3 on.

No point waiting for better.

[quiet radish]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[slim estuary]

is there anyy other ring combo (other than ilvl upgrade) that replaces 465 division/overclock?

[vast forum]

nothing replaces them on single target

since no other rings have any bonuses

[slim estuary]

wasn't sure if there was a 475 combo (other than mechagon) that outweighed in raw stats

Just wondering if I corrupt them or not

[strange python]

u corrupt 465 mecha rings yes

[slim estuary]

awesome! thanks 🙂

[vast forum]

475 rings vs 465 rings are like 20 stat difference or smt

465 mechagon combo is 189 haste bonus with almost 100% uptime

if we had 500 ilvl rings, i think 465 mechagon rings would still beat them on pure dps

[steep plover]

Brah

I see why bm hunters are fucked

Using the raid build in WS and he fucks on me

But hes dying to mechanics

[naive lynx]

kind of a lame question but

what do we do to keep the opener dmg up?

spam muti, envenom?

[strange python]

Yes

and ofc keep bleeds up

[naive lynx]

Ah I see

So all i can do to increase my dmg at this point is to stack haste

?

o.o?

[strange python]

probably marky

[shut garnet]

after you have all the best pieces, all socketted, and all the best azerite, and essences, and whatever

the only way to increase dps is to get ur neck level higher

cuz each neck lvl is like 500 dps i think

[naive lynx]

I see!

One quick question

what are these next to vendetta?

[shut garnet]

the one on the right is the plumage active

KR trinket

[astral pasture]

at what point should i be switching to the exsanguinate build? i have 5 expedient 3 corruptions but don't have the plumage trinket, or the mechagon rings :/

[naive lynx]

i have 25% haste and exsanguate sims higher then toxic blade

[shut garnet]

sim it and see how much it sims compared to whatever you're running rn

[astral pasture]

@naive lynx 25% base haste?

[naive lynx]

yea D:

i don't use CT yet, but exsanguate simmed about 200dps higher

not much but I enjoy it more

[crimson palm]

has anyone tried to soak the wrathion burn/explosion using cheat death only?

[strange python]

pretty sure u die

[naive lynx]

what pots i use for ST?

[vast forum]

@crimson palm no way you can survive with just cheat death

just the explosion will kill you 100-0, even with cheat death i think

[crimson palm]

i cant find how much dmg it does

should be doable with feint

[vast forum]

get a prot pala to spellward you on 1 intermission and cloak 2nd 😄

[crimson palm]

we've 2 bms kekw

[vast forum]

get sac/PS from your healers? 😄

[crimson palm]

im trying to bribe for a soulstone

[vast forum]

or if you have a shaman, get ankh totem

dying there might actually be good as you lose the movement debuff

which allows you to make it to 2nd intermission easier and then use cloak there 😄

or maybe cloak on first to drop stacks and die on 2nd to have foodbuff longer 🤔

[crimson palm]

nah def. die on 2nd

less uptime lost on boss

and food buff ^^

[mental trout]

Does ankh totem only Rez one person?

That seems like a interesting spell didn’t even know about it, any one know of any uses for it?

[royal lantern]

you place it

it makes a circle, people inside of it get 15%(?) more max hp

when somone dies, he can ankh rez without using a CR,but totem is gone

stays for 30sec or something

maybe 20, idk rn

[main adder]

Question: Kick notifies chat, is there an easy addon or macro that will call out interupts I make via blind, cheapshot and kidney as well ?

[sleek tusk]

how much value does weapon ilvl have this expansion? should i trying to replace a 460 expedient dagger with a 475 asap?

[strange python]

in MH?

yes

[vast forum]

mh weapon dps is likely the biggest contributor to dps

[manic pebble]

is potion of focused resolved better than unbridled fury?

for single target bosses

[vast forum]

for exsanguinate, yes

for TB, maybe

[manic pebble]

thank you, imma craft some!

[mellow pier]

@crimson palm we do wrathion chase strat. I proc cheat on first and use cloak on 2nd

Usually we have all raid cds rolling for first

So I dont even proc cheat

Theres also a spot behind wrathion to stand so u only take dmg from 1 circle

[crimson palm]

so the explosion doesnt 1 shot you?

i wanna proc cheat off the dot burn and then use health pots to get back to max

[mellow pier]

Are u talking about doing solo or as a group

[crimson palm]

solo

my guildies are pussies

[mellow pier]

Solo u will prob die cause we have rally/darkness/devo up to stop 1 shot

But we still use healthstones and pots on first with all that

U can prob do 1 with pot/healthstone/and cloak but no way u live without cloak

[crimson palm]

gonna try for science

[mellow pier]

GL!

[crimson palm]

for the first one you dont need any pots btw

vial + cloak is enough

[wet ruin]

the explosion does like 700k or something like that, so you can probably feint it if you are full hp

[crimson palm]

feint + cd + pot

[wet ruin]

but the dot deals enough to not be full hp

maybe you can ask for a PS or something before they leave

[crimson palm]

with an external it's def possible

im just wondering if we can solo it

[wet ruin]

not sure, maybe with externals, but the dot is still a lot of damage

if you can end up at full hp when it explodes you can most likely survive it with feint

[crimson palm]

dot triggers cd -> double pot + engi shield

just gotta make sure it casts the expl in the next 3 secs

[wet ruin]

maybe it can work

[crimson palm]

and pray you dont trigger a tftb lmao

or a circle

[wet ruin]

but relying on cheat death might not always save you though

[naive lynx]

what's the best ST potion?

[strange python]

Me wanna be zug zug big

how much dps increase is the offhand 485 upgrade over the 470 one?

[vast forum]

[steel ridge]

probably very minor

[tired quiver]

hey all, do we use BOTE mutx2 crimson tempest throughout the fight normally or is it better to use ENV with the bote crit increase? I see it in the opener just didnt know the remaining of the fight

[strange python]

Got back into retail after a long break since cata and want to roll assassination and start doing pvp. What are the best places to run for daggers?

[royal cedar]

atal drops a haste / versa dagger

[placid harbor]

Afaik you only keep the CT bleed up, then it's envenom

Unless there's 6 or more targets around

[shut garnet]

should mastery and vers gem replacements in topgear be taken with a pinch of salt sorta

[sacred harbor]

Hey whats good time to switch from Vigor to Deeper Stratagem?

[green basalt]

hm

why does shorting bit band sim only 0.2% worste then the gain haste one?

[late rover]

is the exang build fine with just one SS? playing TB atm but might switch now expedient is in the shop

[strange python]

how do u guys sim?

3 min patchwerk?

[crimson palm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/redptSqyFTZE75AAaAh8vX https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hgP1DULvZCG6YDxXdxpyzX slappers ftw

[soft edge]

is marked for death better than vigor for pve?

[fleet whale]

no

MFD is pretty much strictly a pvp talent

[strange python]

Hey guys, for those of y'all that run high(ish) keys like 20+ how much vers do you try and fit in your gear set? I see a lot of top rogues on raider io stack vers over mastery.

[sick oyster]

does any of you guys know an addon like BigDebuffs? for some reason it seems to cause some weird lag spikes and lua errors for me

[mellow pier]

NameplateAuras

KUI

Plater

[soft edge]

Is outlaw better than assassination for mythic dungeons?

[mellow pier]

They are both very close

Outlaw provides some more CC and doesnt require restealthing

[novel drum]

outlaw will require less work to do decent at. sin has a couple hurdles to get over to be good

[unborn pendant]

What does the opener with CT look like?

nvm I think I found it

[balmy condor]

@tired quiver maintain CT over envenom, even in bote
@shut garnet gems are always kinda sketch cause they’re so minimal, but you can trust usually
@green basalt are you missing a ton of expeds?
@late rover that’s a sim question, you’ll need more haste/exped than usual to make it work
@strange python sim patchwerk 5 minutes as a baseline for raids, if your kill times are low enough, sim 3
@strange python my current set has about 10% but it’s scuffed, if you’re going 3x EB, crit/vers should be your hearing route, and if you get really really high keys (26+), you’ll probably need to take some versatiles and gem vers to survive

Yeah CT opener in pins

[lean harbor]

hello Friiiiiiends

how do i not die on wrathion when i stand in the shit

[sharp swallow]

dont stand in the shit

[lean harbor]

no i will stnad in the shit

[sharp swallow]

use feint

40% aoe dmg reduction I think, maybe 30% idk i dont read tooltips

[balmy condor]

Feint the gale blast

Cloak the fire on the flyaway

[crimson palm]

mission failed, explosion kills you through cd on wrathion

[lean harbor]

asked for a spell warding

hope he doesnt fuck me over

[balmy condor]

Does it? I did it just last week

[lean harbor]

idk im winging it

healthstone healthpot feint cloak xd

[balmy condor]

I’ve seen reclears of people feinting the blast and being fine

[lean harbor]

nah not the blast

like when the boss flys away

[balmy condor]

Cloaking the flyaway is definitely being fine

[lean harbor]

died from it when i tried

[balmy condor]

You have to soak the first couple ticks of the fire with vial/healthstone/health pot

And then cloak to the end

[lean harbor]

this raid is already shit

trolled the mages font lmao

[lavish brook]

@naive lynx the one on the left in an orcs racial

[balmy condor]

What?

Oh @naive lynx missed the question lmao focused resolve, the crit% one

@shrewd night insists it’s not the red one

[lean harbor]

it worked

second one i got spell warding and died

got cr'ed

then later in the fight i had 3 brothers back to back and almost died lmao

[balmy condor]

The cheese worked?

[lean harbor]

ye

with cloak ect

[balmy condor]

Gz, nice to hear it

[lean harbor]

live log was bugged

cringe

[balmy condor]

[lean harbor]

"here is safe"

reclears never get boring i guess

[balmy condor]

Honestly the like 1/20 times where the fire spawns in a weird place is mega annoying

[lean harbor]

tank prepulls and fucks my opener

and i die

feelsgood

[balmy condor]

Dude you can’t blame the tank for that, he just wanted his damage parse

[lean harbor]

pulls on 3 seconds

with rushing jade wind

[balmy condor]

Lmao that’s mega troll

[echo night]

Can expedient build compete with outlaw on dps in M+?

[lean harbor]

idk maybe

not in utility tho xd

[balmy condor]

Not in aoe

But it gives us the single target and prio pump that’s missing

[echo night]

But it fists outlaw on ST

[balmy condor]

That’s why you saw a full exped sin rogue in a tol dagor in the MDI

They didn’t need the aoe cause they did almost 70% mob count on the cannons

So the small pull stuff, and the boss damage was the rogue pumping hard

[lean harbor]

sin rogue doublehunter?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[lean harbor]

or sin rogue double dk

ah

[balmy condor]

Hunter

[lean harbor]

if they ninja a 3rd boss in a row

im gonna kms

[echo night]

Does any1 know the breakingpoint for the hastebuild? Heard infexious talk about "a certain amount of haste when the spec really pulls off"

[balmy condor]

Yeah infexious is a clickbait idiot

There are no breakpoints

[thin cargo]

It's basically all of the haste

[echo night]

Ive got 64% haste atm but can buy 3 more expedient

[balmy condor]

Sim it

[fleet whale]

I use a macro that changes the icon of exsanguinate

cause i find the regular icon ugly

[echo night]

Still doesnt show that haste is best stat tho

[balmy condor]

Stat weights are troll

Don’t ever use them

Actually worthless information

[echo night]

So is golden plum trinket mandatory?

[balmy condor]

No

[echo night]

Or is 475 galecallers giga?

[balmy condor]

That’s pretty giga

You could use a harlans are well

[echo night]

Aight 😘

[balmy condor]

Or the pvp trinket that’s identical to plumage

Spyglass isn’t awful either

[echo night]

Got 475 socket spyglass and 475 boon

[balmy condor]

Some people still use coral

[echo night]

Guess boon will be better

[balmy condor]

The galecaller will be better yeah

[thin cargo]

If you've got 64 haste already, I'm surprised sim isn't saying boon/spyglass for you

[echo night]

Is dragonscale even viable compared?

[shy axle]

anyone got a nice WA for the mecha ring haste procc?

[echo night]

Check the name of the proc and search that name on wago

Should be many

But dragonscale, it has 3 ppm, would that be viable over spyglass?

[balmy condor]

Don’t bother tracking the mecha haste proc

It’s got near 100% uptime and it’s entirely passive

Dragonscale has high uptime but it doesn’t give as strong burst, which is a large part of our damage

Similarly to spyglass giving a decent chunk of crit, but not bursty

Boon/spyglass is definitely wrong though

Vita should be taken always

So it’s probably be vita/boon

[thin cargo]

I was thinking it was a trap

Boon/spyglass

[balmy condor]

It might sim a little higher

[echo night]

Yea im considering vita/boon or Vita/dragonscale

[balmy condor]

Happens with harlans too

Boon > dragonscale

Every day of the week

[echo night]

Aight

Is there any rule of thumb with boon?

[balmy condor]

Vita’s party buff more than makes up for the couple hundred dps you might lose in sims

Use before exsang

You can Macro it into vendetta

And then use on cd in between

Just make sure you’re standing in it before you hit the big vendetta/vanish/exsang combo

Since exsang snapshots haste

[echo night]

Aight

[balmy condor]

If you move out of it, cast exsang, and move back in, you kinda really fucked it up

[echo night]

Yea i havnt used boon since s2

So gotta get used to it

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s not too bad

The circle is a little small

But it’s usually fine

[lean harbor]

maut drag

[balmy condor]

Maut is one of the easier bosses to use it on

[lean harbor]

had someone next to me with a circle and was hoping they didnt be a cunt and just drop it on me

[shrewd night]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Love you too bb

[scenic veldt]

Guys is there a mythic + assasination guide i can refer to

[balmy condor]

Not really

Aoe opener is in the pins

And that’s about it

Just follow the general target count rules

[languid magnet]

hey. around what % haste does MoLD begin to fall off 🙂 ?

base, unbuffed

[naive lynx]

At how many expedient should I drop my TD3?

[balmy condor]

The hell is mold

[naive lynx]

memory of lucid dreams?

😄

[balmy condor]

I’ve never seen that acronym in my life

Usually around 65%ish

[languid magnet]

okay 🙂 still got a little way to go then 😛

[balmy condor]

And you shouldn’t really use Td3 for single target anyway

So whenever you have the expedients, you can probably replace them

But you can sim yourself

[naive lynx]

Yea yea always simming 😄 i prefer real people's opinion

[balmy condor]

The real opinion is I can’t do the math in my head to tell you how many expeds it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop

And that’s why you should sim

[naive lynx]

Alright then

I guess for pure ST it's no question..

so yea

[balmy condor]

[rigid eagle]

@balmy condor lol i hear demon hunters have so much haste from azerite + meta that they can use TD for st fights

[balmy condor]

They use IS

[rigid eagle]

yeh

[balmy condor]

But they use TD sometimes yeah

[rigid eagle]

its like 50% of their dmg

every time

[balmy condor]

Their corruptions are a bit of a disaster

[rigid eagle]

must be nice having rank 7 exped as part of your kit...

wait wot, i thought DH worked great with corruptions?

[balmy condor]

The fact that they have to stack IS or TD

Is pretty great to me

But it feels fucking awful to play

[rigid eagle]

ah

3 button class right

actually tho do they even lose out on that much dmg if they only sit there and watch their autos proc IS

just pop eyebeam/meta on CD

[novel drum]

so whats the cheese for mythic ilgynoth? last boss i gotta parse for

[tropic ocean]

pad on everything

mc adds

[rain obsidian]

im watching the single target opener and it says i should garrote and the rupture should i cast rupture with only 3 combo points?

[shrewd night]

Yes

[balmy condor]

That’s correct

You do a 6cp rupture later for full pandemic

The 3cp is only there to extend the duration of the 6cp later

[green basalt]

eyy

got my mythic vita

and slapper

wieo

[balmy condor]

Poggers

[umbral rapids]

grats!

[green basalt]

thanks!

[fleet anchor]

@rigid eagle Yes they do, because of Demonic Appetite

[umbral rapids]

imagine raiding mythic

[fleet anchor]

Have to keep up their rotation cycle to get Chaos Strikes and CDR for Eye Beam

[balmy condor]

Imagine using an aoe spell on single target

[fleet anchor]

Plus Demonic window abilities are still a good 20% of their damage so 😛

[balmy condor]

What a bunch of clowns

sweats nervously in CT single target

[fleet anchor]

lol

[umbral rapids]

it's kind of a random statement to say they can afk

sure the class is easier than most but that's a stretch lol

[fleet anchor]

Havoc being easy to play is mostly a meme at this point

[balmy condor]

I remember making a 2 button macro in legion

[fleet anchor]

imo it's not any easier than half the specs in the game

[balmy condor]

But it’s definitely more nuanced that that

[fleet anchor]

Most WoW specs are lame

[balmy condor]

And yet here you are mr theorycrafter man

How does it feel

[fleet anchor]

Sad

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

I mean, I'm excited for the depruning I guess

[balmy condor]

Look on the bright side

[fleet anchor]

In a general sense

[balmy condor]

You get to code soulbind sims

That’s fun right

[placid harbor]

lame compared to what though?

[balmy condor]

Right? Guys? Yeah? Coding Soulbinds? Sounds great

[umbral rapids]

@fleet anchor yeah it still def requires practice,

[balmy condor]

Lame compared to games with rich in-depth combat like uh what’s popular right now

[fleet anchor]

Like picking on Havoc players when WoW has stuff like this.. smh

[balmy condor]

Cod

Shoot gun very excite

I agree they’re a little boring

But I think combat in most games can be

[fleet anchor]

The main thing that makes Havoc boring is the shift to Demon's Bite builds instead of Demon Blades

[balmy condor]

You look at something like path of exile and it’s still like a 1-2 button combat

[placid harbor]

yea i get what you mean, i remember it was more fun back in LK but I don't know if that's nostalgia or I just knew less about the game back then and information was harder to find or what