IS sims incredibly high
#assassination
ruby ibex
eternal turtle
any good sin rogues that stream their raids?
balmy condor
raz streams reclears I think
wintry wadi
How much haste is recommended to run the xsang build that was pinned in this channel?
balmy condor
you need about 30% to make exsang work, and then 60%ish to drop lucid and use CT
depending on azerite and gear
rough estimates
eternal turtle
aight will check him out thnx
green basalt
i hate this game
balmy condor
it is worth eventually
wintry wadi
Ok, running 62% unbuffed atm. Running exp 21, working on getting the last exped
cyan bone
do you get clf r4 insta when you kill mythic azshara or how should I read that loottable
balmy condor
yeah, its almost like getting a drop off current expansion mythic content should be earned
green basalt
14th time running workshop now today
shut garnet
only cosmetic value anyways
cyan bone
yea but I thought like I get r4 even when I have r1 or something
so I can skip farmign all the stuff because its from last patch
thought they may have done something like that
balmy condor
yeah no
that's not how any of that works
you don't get to just skip ranks for free
shut garnet
u need to get r 1 2 3
which you'd get pretty naturally i think if you were to fullclear ep
cant exactly remember how many u reliquaries you get off bosses
is it normal for top gear to randomly sim throw in a mastery gem or two btw
balmy condor
yeah that's fine
green basalt
is there a way to sim how the mecha combo would sim against my current rings?
balmy condor
that's called gear compare
balmy condor
seems about right
cyan bone
5% is fat though
shut garnet
you're talking like a solid
green basalt
haha
shut garnet
1.5k to 2k dps JUST OFF the proc
nevermind the fact that the stats on it are pretty huge
for assa
green basalt
im trying to convince myself here
balmy condor
5% is 5.5k full optimized dude
cyan bone
well it is a fat upgrade though no?
balmy condor
15 runs ain't that much tbh
green basalt
in one day
tawny wedge
Would u rather take t3 twilight + as much 12%crit as possible or only crit for en/ss m+build ?
green basalt
kinda want it for tomorrows raid
balmy condor
taking a t3 is fine
its less consistent
but Imo its fine
going 3x severe3 and full strikethrough pumps your EB damage really high
drifting cosmos
The better gears (stat wise) you have, TD become worse and worse
strange python
Does anyone know how to use simulationcraft?
yes what do you wanna know
When i try to simulate my char
It says this
balmy condor
whats the import you're trying
strange python
Pspspspsps
balmy condor
I see its armory
strange python
do you know about raidbots.com?
balmy condor
but are you importing it correctly
balmy condor
yeah that's cleaner
and you should consider raidbots unless you're doing complicated stuff
armory doesn't import essences as far as I know
narrow siren
QQ boys- on a boss fight with temporary adds (such as Hivemind) while spec'd with crimson tempest, does the rotation call for having crimson up at all times even on 1 target, after add phases? Mind you I am not running the extreme haste build, crimson tempest just seems to sim higher for me than poison bomb on a hectic add cleave fight but not sure if I should keep CT up even during single rotation phase
balmy condor
you can find that out for yourself if you sim the set you're using in a 1 or 2 target patchwerk sim
you mentioned that you aren't going extreme haste
so it's going to be difficult to tell just from the information given
narrow siren
Okay- and does it not pay to use garrote anymore after a certain amount of targets? only relying on ruptrures and crimsons?
balmy condor
you should have enough bleeds up for energy regen
4 bleeds actually
so as long as you're maintaining on both bosses
its fine
you can dump energy
narrow siren
so rupture+garrote on 2x targets, and the rest can be envenoms?
while keeping crimson up
narrow siren
awesome, thank you!
mental trout
does any one know of a streamer who does high keys in the raid build?
proven moth
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
upbeat tinsel
anyone know the specifics of the last boss of sethraliss shroud trick?
balmy condor
yeah, you pull the boss, shroud
and then the boss gets shrouded, the mobs can't target the boss
and then gg
upbeat tinsel
dialog first or after shroud
balmy condor
dialog first
iron slate
Hey guys. Quick question. Strikethrough II is here this and next week its Strikethrough 3 and Severe 2/3. I have 20k echos, 1 corruption and will get a cloak upgrade at least this week. Do I just save and blow everything for rank 3 corruption next week or do severe 3 next week and get some strike 2s? Do I just sim it and see perhaps?
I play pretty casual now and dont do mythic raiding and maybe a M+ here and there. Just looking for fun/good dmg in the long run. I run outlaw as well otherwise id just load up on Haste this week
iron slate
Ik you want to balance both
balmy condor
but save up for the severe 3 and strike 3 rotation
that way you can maximize that res :P
iron slate
so its eithe rget ranks 3s of both next week or get Strike 2 this week for lesser corruption and get sever 3 next week
balmy condor
you'll need to mix 2's and 3's
rigid eagle
i feel like if ur strictly playing for fun, you can just buy severe for now lol
ur gonna need a few, and u prolly spam a shitload of m+ to farm for more
strikethrough is like
next friday
so you actually have less echoes than u think lol
and also the haste build sends you back to simcraft whenever you get a new piece of gear, so u might not wanna go down the exped rabbit hole
iron slate
Yeah. I ran Mythic raids for a bit but i was burnt out so im not doing it with my guild rn.
Well i figure 2 Strikes and 2 Severe which will use up my 20k, no?
rigid eagle
yeah 2 strike + 2 severe blows thru ur 20k
balmy condor
yeah but you'll want to wait for severe3 and strike3
instead of blowing it all on severe2 and strike2
iron slate
I figure dit might be bets to wait and blow 20k on ranks 3s
iron slate
i play it for anything not raiding cause its more fun and i can aoe for free.
rigid eagle
i think both outlaw and sub use a more balanced mix of severe and strikethrough than sin
iron slate
Which is why i consider strikes 2 and get severe 3 more next week
rigid eagle
first, if u have nothing, save for rank 3 first
balmy condor
that's probably not good advice
cause the setup in like
3 week
is 3x severe3, and then like 3x strike2
and the rest strike 3's
he can buy those strikes right now
rigid eagle
will he have time to buy strike 3s tho
balmy condor
well yeah
rigid eagle
lol arent the 2s just filler after you got the core build down
iron slate
See idk and and i cant find any information anywhere telling me what to get first :X
Ive read icy veins and some guides recently is all
iron slate
yeha. im like 40 corruption behind and will never catch up on that :/
pale tiger
wait i missed this, but for the temple trick you need to shroud first i think
and then your team needs to pull the mobs
or they will just stand there
thats how i've done it
balmy condor
hype
pale tiger
yeah if thats the case shrouding after dialog is better
gives your team more time to aggro everything
iron slate
Alright. ty for the advice guys. Probably get some rank 2 strikes, get severe rank 3 next week and try and farm more echoes
rocky ibex
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v9AzFMHHWdEbH2dSktvPFc should i go with bote or guardian?
balmy condor
clf is pretty gud
iron slate
Hope so too. Gonan raidbot sim liek crazy.
steep plover
Is there a guide or something for all the little skips or anything like that u can do as a rogue in dungeons
balmy condor
no because most of them is worthless this season
steep plover
Rippp
fallow otter
Sitting at 29 or 49 corruption feels bad when the only 10 spend you have to juggle is a rank one tendy, used it anyway I don't miss it at all
neon glen
When do you guys pop plumage/blood on m vex?
on pull w/ empowered garrotes and then adds after vanish/vend are off cd? Or save for first set of adds?
balmy condor
on pull for big boss dam
fleet anchor
Yeah honestly unless your comp has really low AoE, those adds are just gonna melt nowadays
balmy condor
ye
and if you save cds for adds you're just in for disappointment
fire mages and bm hunters say hi
fleet anchor
Just focus on the boss and first big add, you can Crimson Tempest the adds, maybe Rupture/Garrote the whirly dude.. otherwise just tunnel imo
harsh tusk
So I still don't have the 3 SS and 2 HoD for the TK build, so running TB w/ subterfuge. Have the M cara dagger and M boots from him, worth going with two TA's on 485's, or still go all exp?
fleet anchor
If you can go full Expedient that's the way forward generally
But if you can't afford all that, you can keep 485 TA for a transitional setup
fleet anchor
I kept TA on my dagger for a while since I couldn't afford a full setup week 1 of the vendor
It's fine
harsh tusk
ty
honest iris
who has the highest sim here
balmy condor
what information are you trying to get from that
honest iris
I just wanna see? is that okay
normal olive
arctic walrus
dont do raz like that
hidden bay
rancid bobcat
How is that one only 114k when I have that same setup pretty much
lucid wasp
is CLF really the best single target major? 
rancid bobcat
honest iris
that person is still missing another expedient
lucid wasp
just came back haven't played most of the expansion lol
arctic walrus
just buy them?
lean harbor
putting them into another spec
arctic walrus
96 neck 
shy dust
strange python
got lustrous today
balmy condor
you can't just compare uncorrupted rings to corrupted rings
and then "y u no damage? wat"
strange python
yeah ithought lustrous would sim well over gale
balmy condor
I use gale
strange python
oh ok
fuck, ive been grinding kings rest for over a week
for this trink
lol ty again @balmy condor
strange python
ok ty
fallen ivy
so... Formless void.... If i use it on someone who has Blood it bsaically lines up with my other CDS and is more haste.... is this a thing or is this bait?
drifting cloud
base cd of bote is 2min
loud light
bote with formless void has a really tragic CD, formless void major is realistically only going to have a chance when fight duration is short enough that you'd only normally get one cast of CLF and you steal that
I forget if they implemented anything to sim that properly though, I don't think so
fleet anchor
No Formless is not supported. Has been asked about but it’s not very simple to implement for quite a few reasons. 😦
candid token
I'm missing a SS on my headpiece, according to Simcity it's only a minor DPS loss. Is this correct? Cause I've been told I really need 3 SS's'ss
candid token
So I'd probably use DD's?
balmy condor
DD is good
candid token
Aight, thanks ^_^
steel ridge
base cd of bote is 2min
@drifting cloud 90 seconds
drifting cloud
nope
loud light
"base" for formless void means the rank 1 cd
manic pebble
do you prefer elusiveness over cheat death on high keys?
steel ridge
oh right, rank 1 has 2 minutes
balmy condor
usually cheat death
elusive is poppin
but cheat death just ends up saving your ass
so much
loud light
generally only go elusiveness if you really need it for a specific ability
balmy condor
yeah
manic pebble
I use elusiveness to tank bursting
loud light
so if you're pushing high enough that you're doing a kings rest where a bad spit gold could kill you, then there you go
manic pebble
for this week
balmy condor
that's kinda troll imo
bursting is big whatever
if you have a HUGE pull you cloak it
and if you can't outheal the bursting
cheat death will keep you alive for like 2 ticks anyway
manic pebble
I see
balmy condor
so I argue basically equal
steep plover
Bro cunts told me u cant cloak bursting
So i never tried it till i saw someone do it
balmy condor
yeah removes the stacks and everything
balmy condor
and then they make a bunch of mechanics you can't cloak in raids
cause its too good
but mages can still ice block them :)
manic pebble
aight imma run some high keys with cheat death and see how it goes 😄
balmy condor
won't make much a difference
if you're running super high keys without vers you're fked regardless
manic pebble
bruh I have 5% ver
balmy condor
yeah
manic pebble
not enough?
balmy condor
I think if you're pushing 28's as sin you have to roll severe/versatile tbh
steep plover
Is there a good range for versatile since its good as a defensive stat?
balmy condor
wdym
manic pebble
by the time I complete another set, shadowlands is gonna be out by now haha
steep plover
Like fkr high keys is there a range thats good to have or like a minimum
To help u be more sustainable
balmy condor
you'll need a solid amount
steep plover
Like 15% + ?
balmy condor
I think you'll have to change all the strikes
steep plover
Ye might give it a look
lost horizon
you just need enough vers to live the 1shots
steep plover
Damage already seems so high aoe wise so maybe the extra vers wont be too bad
balmy condor
yeah
lost horizon
other than giga dots
quartz gyro
bois
im from the ret pally discord
whats rogue like
nerfed or boosted?
manic pebble
what happened?
quartz gyro
you asking me?
lost horizon
outlaw has more vers baseline usually but i guess sin gets clapped earlier
manic pebble
I don't even know if rogue is nerfed or boosted tbh didn't check news
spice glade
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d9rS1JzQpKRQhsxCzBn4kJ
@rancid bobcat goddamn
@rancid bobcat your weekly chests were good to you
carmine dawn
I saw the M+ opener without crimson is three garrote opener, overcapping is okay right?
cause its empowered
carmine dawn
reapply garrote to first target?
balmy condor
yes
carmine dawn
how come
balmy condor
pandemic
steel ridge
Be fast tho, dont overwrite without subterfuge
balmy condor
well yeah
obviously these have to be subterfuge in order for it to be worth anything
but its not too bad
carmine dawn
smackin dummies, doesnt seem toooooo difficult
you guys use mouseover garrote macros?
balmy condor
nah
steel ridge
Tab tab tab
but sometimes you get an odd pull with mobs running away which fucks it all up
carmine dawn
does the 75 talent row even matter for sin?
balmy condor
what row is that
carmine dawn
internal bleeding is for pvp, iron wire is trash, sin wouldnt waste subterfuge on prey?
balmy condor
iron wire in m+
steel ridge
Iron wire for m+
balmy condor
prey in raids
carmine dawn
how is prey useful in raid
carmine dawn
on stuff that stunned, bosses arent stunned.
steel ridge
Darter
drifting cosmos
Adds can
fallow otter
You can kidney a vex add or darter yeh
carmine dawn
arguably situational for when you need to kidney an interrupt
cause youd usually want to use subterfuge for 3x garrote?
drifting cosmos
Kidney doesn't require stealth
fallow otter
Sometimes vex add does spinners and the rest of your raid is tunnel fiesta
carmine dawn
do you use a full 5cp on kidney
balmy condor
situationally
carmine dawn
or just minimal cp for the int?
when do i pop vendetta on multi target pulls? follow the opener in pins, pool energy > vendetta/tb?
balmy condor
on prio
fallow otter
Usually didn't matter, but def situational. Prey is same any way and it's usually for interrupt
fallow otter
I full point kidney for nzoth cc just to be safe but you could do it with one
rigid eagle
did conflict and strife become meta for exsang build lol
fallow otter
Minor?
rigid eagle
yeh
arctic walrus
If you’re not taking formless yeah
fallow otter
Ohhh for blood major?
carmine dawn
when do i pop vendetta on multi target pulls? follow the opener in pins, pool energy > vendetta/tb?
i know to pop on prio, but when
carmine dawn
im not doing ct, should i look into it
carmine dawn
running crit stacking outlaw build with 3x DD, 1NP, 1SS, 1 sands
fallow otter
DD is a St trait
carmine dawn
i can trade out two DD for 2 TTN?
balmy condor
ttk is fine in m+ but you need 3x SS for it
carmine dawn
i mean im not gonna push keys as sin, gonna do that as outlaw. just for casual keys with my friends and learning general sin gameplay. not too worried about maxing
fallow otter
Get rid of DD for m+, you barely mutilate
fallow otter
Sounds like you should just use outlaw tbh, unless you want to troll your friends
balmy condor
I mean
this is a channel about optimizing
we aren't here to talk about what you want to play and how your +10's are going
fallow otter
Your aoe dmg is going to be giga bad is our point lol
But you can play it if it's fun
balmy condor
its not toxic
its not facts about what we're discussion
we're giving you pointers and telling you that you won't have a good time in m+ with your gear
if you want to do m+ with that, that is your right
but we're not going to recommend it
carmine dawn
thank you, well articulated.
fallow otter
Your sin gear and build
carmine dawn
yeah will do
balmy condor
dungeon slice isn't going to tell you much tbh
fallow otter
It's not going to be as exaggerated as irl
fallow otter
Got any EB?
fallow otter
No need
carmine dawn
outdated info, got it.
carmine dawn
ugh yall right my azerite is whack
i think i get it tho, stack SS and EB
thanks gang
balmy condor
np
balmy condor
what path
fallow otter
But gougeeeee
fallow otter
Haha
quartz condor
^my mood rn
balmy condor
I'd rather rip my own toenails out one by one with my bare hands
rigid eagle
that's oddly specific
patent topaz
I traded 475 slapper to our enhance because he was using 465 bile. Maybe I can get one next week
fallow otter
Where is sub on this list
fallow otter
This is true
quartz condor
Wait there's a third rogue class? 🤔
balmy condor
but I'm not losing 30% damage just for a little fun
rigid eagle
@fallow otter sub is still paying for being strong during legion and super early bfa
we don't get to be viable yet
balmy condor
tell that to aff locks
rigid eagle
i think fire mage is gonna take our place in SL tho
balmy condor
they were viable for like 12 expansions before finally being bad in the last couple tiers
rigid eagle
wait viable in what tho
rigid eagle
ah
fallow otter
Zul lol
rigid eagle
at least they aren't dominating m+ and pvp as well
balmy condor
they were dominating m+ in legion for a little bit
rigid eagle
O:
fallow otter
That odd zul parse in warcraftlogs.com for everyone
balmy condor
actually a lot of it now that I think about it
legion had like 5x the aggro
so you pull the entire dungeon
and then the tank just runs back to the start
and the mobs just follow forever
aff kept them all dotted and slowed
was pretty sick
balmy condor
if you want to relive the sub days
rigid eagle
hopefully none of the green name senpais come yell at us for being off topic lul
fallow otter
Nps coz tanks didn't need healers
rigid eagle
except 0 mobility
balmy condor
I mean
balmy condor
1 shadowstep vs 2 shadowsteps
rigid eagle
and the monks and druids
balmy condor
shadowstrike isn't really "mobility"
rigid eagle
i feel like im a wheelchair class lmao
i mean you get constant restealths in M+ and open world
so u just fly everywhere with SS
balmy condor
yeah but in m+ that kinda doesn't really happen too often
you're in the middle of the pack anyway
and you'll have shadowstep up on each and every pack anyway
so its kind of a mute point
rigid eagle
lol when i run low keys for fun i always stand with ranged just so i can engage with SS
balmy condor
I argue sin and sub mobility are equal in most usable scenarios
you have the potential for more mobility with sub
but it doesn't pan out that way
rigid eagle
i mean if u actually play well then yeah
but im the kind of person who has to wait for the group to move so i can step to them on wrath fight LUL
being able to vanish SS or just step more often feels super good
balmy condor
best spec
fallow otter
Yes we played sin in legion
rigid eagle
i actually wonder how sin is gonna play in SL
fallow otter
I still miss the sin weapon mini game from legion
rigid eagle
what's gonna be our main ability in SL lol
shrewd night
Do you remember DFAing through the floor on argus tho
fallow otter
Shadow bolt
shrewd night
rigid eagle
we were nightstalker envenom/kingsbane in legion right
rigid eagle
i feel like sin in m+ is REALLY bad for my blood pressure tbh...
subterfuge window is sooooooo big
kinda stressful
like frantically trying to stealth on my way into an obs
lean harbor
@balmy condor what sim options do you use when you sim? i recreated the gear and sims later that day and was like 1k less than the one u linked me
balmy condor
can you link both sims to me
lean harbor
aye one sec
balmy condor
I vary my settings based on what people want from me a lot of the time
fallow otter
After killing carapace for 3 months finally got 2nd dagger lastnight
balmy condor
so my settings are fucked
fallow otter
Im simming 100% symbiotic, 3min mostly
fallow otter
Both 39 and 59
lean harbor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qEwjWkKv1VpXVTXjAZ9kR9 - ah here it was, i simmed the same stuff as the one u linked and got this i think
balmy condor
lmao
fallow otter
@balmy condor you never play clf?
balmy condor
I play CLF all the time
lean harbor
oh you guys are running nightly sims or something
balmy condor
but I vaguely remember him wanting blood I think
lean harbor
is that better then
balmy condor
always
lean harbor
fuck sake ahah
balmy condor
but that shouldn't change much
lean harbor
do you guys know what the simc default potion is?
balmy condor
why are you using custom foods and stuff
you can select "simc default" in the options
fallow otter
Agi? Either way, change it to focused
lean harbor
if im sharing an account with other people do they influence the options there by any chance?
lean harbor
ah ok
fallow otter
Read the options on the right and compare imo
lean harbor
probs
fallow otter
Should be obvious but I'm phone so cbf squinting
balmy condor
also 100% symbiotic uptime stunkei?
lean harbor
simming with it set to defaults now
balmy condor
that's pretty bold of you
fallow otter
But that's dog
balmy condor
I can't get my uptime higher than like 89/91
fallow otter
In reality I should just run iris for all rounder
fallow otter
Yep blood wins
patent topaz
for me clf is like 400 above blood, fuck that noise
my best minors are iris, conflict and breath
fallow otter
Pretty sure most get blood minor take over for clf major
fallow otter
I gotta resim after dagger and a bunch of expedients yesterday
I see a lot of CLF iris/blood/breath
@balmy condor yeh this, and switch iris with formless if poggers uptime
But you can't get that on a bunch of bosses
balmy condor
yeah I guess so
formless never has beaten out iris for me
but I also haven't tried 100% uptime
so maybe that's it
lean harbor
this talk of food and options reminds me to go buy some more
actually have a teensy bit of gold now so i can restock
balmy condor
our guild bank is always stocked full of gems/chants/food/flasks
lean harbor
i literally had like 10k gold lmao
balmy condor
patent topaz
hivemind yesterday
lean harbor
lost it all in a gambling situation
fallow otter
Yeah that's why I have been simming 100
balmy condor
lmao
fallow otter
But I wanted to try it out last night
balmy condor
I guess formless would beat it if you ever drop the stacks on the boss
fallow otter
Ie. Never more that 200
balmy condor
but its so damn close
fallow otter
Yeh true
patent topaz
a lot of minors are within margin of error
lean harbor
so what fights do you guys play clf?
patent topaz
none
fallow otter
All but that's coz im lazy
lean harbor
some of my guilds kill times would be quite gay for it
our last shadhar was like 3:08
fallow otter
You can check logs for the blood vs clf war per boss
Clf beats blood for me, in 3min
That sim above us 3min
It's more about adds im pretty sure
You want blood for adds
fallow otter
But I havent checked in just assuming
balmy condor
CLF is honestly good if not better on a ton of fights
fallow otter
Surely blood is winning logs for hivemind
balmy condor
But depending on fight length is can be beat
Yeah blood on hive vex I assume
Maybe raden
patent topaz
for me both are within 400 dps on 3 and 5 min
balmy condor
But idk it’s probably close
patent topaz
so I just use blood for everything
fallow otter
Yeah it's all blood for hive
lean harbor
i like bote
balmy condor
And it was pretty good
patent topaz
carapace died just as I pop my 3rd round of cds too
lean harbor
gonna try CLF on a boss or two maybe this week
depending on how many trials we bring to nzoth this week :)
patent topaz
most bosses are 2-2:20 now, sucks ass
lean harbor
i need to learn how to play with CT before raid tho
fallow otter
Pressing CT instead of envenom still feels weird to me, I'll be honest
balmy condor
I hear everyone saying it feels weird
And I swapped and didn’t notice a damn thing
Idk what y’all are on about
fallow otter
Can it get parried or some shit
balmy condor
CT?
fallow otter
Yesterday, xanesh fuckin didn't have it
balmy condor
CT can’t get parried
fallow otter
Add right next to him
shrewd night
Its just another bleed, i dont get the reason for it feeling weird kek
fallow otter
I knew it
lean harbor
with CLF i just pop it before pull aye?
balmy condor
I’ve never had that happen to me
patent topaz
100%
balmy condor
CLF you can pop before vendetta
patent topaz
xanesh a week ago or 2
balmy condor
Pre-pull with CLF is kinda huge dick
patent topaz
I think carapace this week as well
balmy condor
Pretty risky imo
lean harbor
knowing me
balmy condor
If you mess it up there goes your opener
lean harbor
id fuck up restealth
you know my first raid on my rogue after rerolling
i ran up to wrathion and pressed coral lmao
fallow otter
Ill check logs from last night, I could swear wrath parried one
@shrewd night yeah i'll check my xanesh
balmy condor
Can bosses also parry whirlwind then?
It was my understanding that AoE spells like eyebeam/whirlwind/CT can’t be parried
patent topaz
im pretty sure it can get parried and you lose cp because the cast went off, not like envenom that doesnt use the cp
im not going to scour logs at work though, im sure someone will
patent topaz
cast breakdown probably in damage
patent topaz
idk, this is my carapace
shrewd night
Could be range for all we know
patent topaz
idk if you can tell when those happened but I guess p3
shrewd night
I didnt find a parry in my logs
lean harbor
asked a warrior friend about whirlwind
balmy condor
Cause I was sure AoE untargeted abilities couldnt be parried
lean harbor
all i got
balmy condor
Cleave is targeted though right
fallow otter
lean harbor
aoe
patent topaz
I distinctly remember using it on xanesh when tank turned it and she didnt get the debuff a couple of weeks ago
balmy condor
Nutty
patent topaz
pretty sure it wasnt range
shrewd night
I know you can dodge/evasion whirlwind, but not sure about parry
lean harbor
balmy condor
How do I have like 4k hours in this game and not know this
shrewd night
4k hours 
lean harbor
i twas a
warm parcel
Beam cant be parried cause its a "spell"
lean harbor
legion baby
balmy condor
I’d have to check
warm parcel
Where as these are "skills"
lean harbor
so with CT talented how does the opener go?
lean harbor
do we work it into our first exsang?
balmy condor
Openers are in pins
lean harbor
ty
lean harbor
big
warm parcel
Even gw can be parried
lean harbor
top quality
balmy condor
GW can be parried?
balmy condor
This game is fucking broken
Who comes up with this spaghetti
Azerite spike i Can kinda understand
warm parcel
Theres this indie called blizzard
balmy condor
But you’re telling me a shadow dot can be parried
warm parcel
A lot of minor stuff like that
balmy condor
I remember that
lean harbor
balmy condor
That was fucking dumb
warm parcel
Theres a lot of silly moves
Stuff like cs and bte have their own rules too
Cant be dodged cause theyre not directional skills I guess
quaint vortex
yeah it's quite nuanced but the difference between "ability" and "spell" changes how things function a lot 😭
warm parcel
Yup
balmy condor
I’m used to that from path of exile
warm parcel
Especially in dodge parry imm cases
balmy condor
But they actually tell you what the skill does
balmy condor
quaint vortex
they can't even write decent patch notes, yet alone do tooltips lmao
quaint vortex
I'll take borrowed power for 500
balmy condor
You ever notice how PoE’s season go core and the game grows
Wouldn’t it be nice if for one fucking expansion
Blizzard actually adds a power system that doesn’t disappear instantly
quaint vortex
I just want them to make the base class design similar to what it was in MOP and then balance things with tier bonuses and set bonuses again
quaint vortex
wouldn't mind seeing more trinket effects tied to specific raid zones to prevent things like Font still being BIS for classes a patch later
balmy condor
M+ is the only game system I can even remember that’s stuck around
quaint vortex
just feels like they need to develop a strong core for the game again and then start tuning things afterwards
warm parcel
Well
quaint vortex
but instead they just keep using borrowed power as a tuning mechanism for bad baseline
warm parcel
They think most cores are just fine
balmy condor
They don’t add to core they just remove the thing they had
warm parcel
See assa and 0 changes in years to core
balmy condor
And add back a slightly shittier version in the next expac
quaint vortex
I think mut works but then you start seeing issues when you look at specs like WW
still feels good to play but the numbers tuning is very off
warm parcel
Dont even get me started on numbers
balmy condor
What
warm parcel
I literally have no good argument for why some differences are so big
balmy condor
Don’t you like random 5% buffs
quaint vortex
that one is a bit more indicative of a bad core because it doesn't really have any scaling factors in the long term, whereas mut scales well generally because it likes all stats
warm parcel
Scaling is also a word I would avoid using
warm parcel
Its misused 99% of the time as you can just turn a knob and boom
balmy condor
We got very little in terms of balancing, they gutted sub in uldir
quaint vortex
I'm sure we'll see the same issue happen with 2h frost DK - it'll be high damage in the first tier and then fall off massively because it's balanced on weapon damage, not secondary stats
balmy condor
And now in beta we’re still the least developed class
Like
Where is that dev power going
fallow otter
quaint vortex
can agree that scaling is a word that people should be apprehensive about using btw but I do think the people in this conversation right now understand the nuance of how it's being used atm
fallow otter
Putting this again to trigger @balmy condor
balmy condor
I’m already triggered
warm parcel
But like
fallow otter
Me2 tbh
shrewd night
warm parcel
Fire mage isnt some megascaling monster that again was unleashed
warm parcel
It just happened to get so much added shit that all worked together well
Others specs didnt
quaint vortex
nah, it just got multiplicative stat growth via corruption + massive amounts of baseline stats via blaster master + a bunch of on use effects and bracers
fallow otter
@balmy condor I've done that before I made the mistake of using the corn ones last time, dog shit
balmy condor
literally a megascaling monster
scales so hard
so many stats
so much scaling
ban me weak you won't
quaint vortex
pretty sure that every spec in the game that has massive stats via Azerite is in a good position right now and tettles had a very good video talking about that issue
balmy condor
yeah but why would you listen to tettles
he gets memed on by his own discord
its like us with infexious but somehow even funnier
forest vigil
anyone here have a ELI5 1 minute video on how to play bleed build?
warm parcel
What if I told you
fallow otter
When is exp 2?
balmy condor
fallow otter
Anyone know from memory before I go check
warm parcel
Those stat ups are good cause the other shit just sucks
fallow otter
Ok I check
balmy condor
like 2 weeks I think
warm parcel
And again. Fire just got a bunch of added stuff that alone woulndt break the spec
And fires core is god awful
fallow otter
Same week as strike through 3...great
balmy condor
@forest vigil 1 minute probably won't cut it, but if you speed read the guide in the pins you get a similar effect
forest vigil
thanks!
balmy condor
or just watch the infexious guide on mute
he plays it good enough
its just the stuff he says that's wrong
fallow otter
Cruspy
opal minnow
The power spike and popularity of fire went through the roof with essences and hyoerthread wrist wraps, it wasn't a corruption or scaling thing. They were good in EP prog without the crazy gear we have now
quaint vortex
I would say that I agree with what you're saying, but I'd also make the counterpoint that something like Destro getting Flashpoint + Expedient (when haste is best even without flashpoint) is just going to lead to the spec being substantially above others that don't have any kind of interaction like that
same reason that spriest is in a pretty good position now with the way chorus interacts with Severe
warm parcel
Yea but those two things dont mean "destro somehow is good scaling spec"
balmy condor
warm parcel
Just that some azerite are just really good and can be abused to the max
You can just change shard gen formula and suddenly it isnt going insane off of haste
It isnt like a spec is a "scalemonster"
A small change can make or break that for nay spec
Ie assa and hasted bleeds
quaint vortex
yes, which is why it's generally fundamental that the core of the class is designed in a way that all stats will meaningfully impact damage rather than having only 1-2 stats that are impactful
warm parcel
Igotchufam
lethal arrow
i feel like im losing years of life worrying about my dps
balmy condor
don't get worrying, get better - Jdotb probably at some point
warm parcel
And making all stats equally good? Its a bit of an impossible job
quaint vortex
if we use something like 2h frost from MOP, the only stat that massively increased damage was weapon damage - the spec became pretty average in TOT (despite being really good at the start) and then pretty bad in SoO (especially relative to DW which received massive damage increases from mastery and okay impacts from other secondaries)
warm parcel
Especially given how many different aspects there are to wow
quaint vortex
yes I would agree with that as well
strange python
is it worth playing Bleeding build even when corruption is gone ?
strange python
thats what i thought
fallow otter
Imagine pre-nerf SS right now 
balmy condor
we're probably back in breath major TB poison-ville
lethal arrow
when did SS get nerfed?
balmy condor
like 3 patches ago
warm parcel
And yes Im aware of frost example. But even there a small change could flip all of the scaling.
So what Im trying to say here is to look at scaling and its use doffetently. The 2H obviously gained less from a same amount of stats and whatnot, but that doesnt lock the 2H to "always scaling poorly"
strange python
SS ?
lethal arrow
how bad was it?
balmy condor
not too bad
fallow otter
Super bis
warm parcel
There can be a small but effective change to fix it
lethal arrow
mkay 🤔
strange python
i dont want to play toxic blade >;(
fallow otter
It wasn't small....
"(Assassination) Shrouded Suffocation: Damage bonus reduced by 40%"
balmy condor
I mean
opal minnow
Unless you still have like 10 trials like my guild
fallow otter
Ohhh yeah it read needed
Was*
But just imagine it being 40% better right now
Holy shit
balmy condor
yeah