PB was annoying yeah
#assassination
fleet anchor
fleet whale
and if you got procs in the opener, or in execute
vital haven
vital haven
yep
fleet whale
exsang is gonna be dead when pre-patch hits i think
crimson palm
Yeh
vital haven
honestly its a god send that expedient turned out to be so good for rogue
fleet anchor
Yeah...
serene osprey
when we lose like 50% haste? probably yea
vital haven
there are still procs and shit
fleet anchor
Like on one hand, I'm happy Corruption is going away
crimson palm
I was testing font instead of vita
If you have a 445 one with a socket you can replace it on sub 3 min fights
fleet anchor
On the other hand, I'm sad because we just go back to boring low APM DD build again probably
vital haven
MA/TB build noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
crimson palm
its neutral with vita
fleet anchor
*Shiv
vital haven
fucking kill me man
crimson palm
and 1 less proc to worry about
fleet anchor
😄
fleet whale
well we get to still keep essences, and we still have a decent amount of haste
crimson palm
we wont keep essences?
fleet whale
so we'll probably be down to like 45 apm which isn't really slow for sin standards
crimson palm
everything will go away
vital haven
wait are all the class changes going thoruhg in the prepatch right?
fleet whale
essences stay in the pre-patch
fleet anchor
Currently the plan seems to be that Azerite and Essences are in prepatch
fleet whale
as does azerite
fleet anchor
Just no Corruption
crimson palm
makes no sense tho
fleet anchor
I agree
fleet whale
well in legion
fleet anchor
But that's what they've said!
crimson palm
like classes play completely differently
serene osprey
level and ilvl squish in prepatch too right?
fleet whale
we lost artifacts but kept tier in leggos
vital haven
they just wanna ween us off corruption
crimson palm
whole point of prepatch is to get final feedback on class design
red plaza
Yep squish and everything too
crimson palm
dunno
fleet anchor
SnD probably favors a Mutilate build too because it is just more energy, but not really more Haste for bleeds.
serene osprey
we're still 2 months from capping cloak though, how close can prepatch really be
vital haven
i mean i love sin now but ill be muhc more interested in trying out sub in prepatch
fleet whale
but i'm still hoping blizz either axes snd for sin
or at the very least add back cut to the chase
crimson palm
if we go back to envenom
snd might end up being dps decrease
like it is with outlaw atm
fleet whale
idk, you're losing a lot of poison procs
which is what will make snd strong
i actually wonder if MP could be more viable with snd
fleet anchor
Ah yeah you're right, I forgot they removed the energy regen portion when they Outlawified it
fleet whale
only sub had the energy part of it
fleet anchor
It's more energy for Outlaw because of Combat Potency
fleet whale
for assassin it really has no spec interaction
dark crag
snd was a dps los because outlaw lost rtb
fleet whale
other than more poison procs
fleet anchor
SnD for Outlaw was garbage yeah
fleet whale
it was good in Antorus
dark crag
no talent in that row selected was even more dps than snd
fleet whale
if you played outlaw in antorus
vital haven
not the right channel but blade flurry being part of restless blades is a god send btw
fleet anchor
Hmm hard to say
fleet whale
it will be a very high sustained but passive and boring playstyle
fleet whale
honestly i don't really like EP
fleet whale
at least Alacrity will give you some haste, which is still boring
but EP might as well be "increases all your damage by 7%"
crimson palm
i just wanna see what exsan + shiv will feel like if number tuning gives the chance 😄
fleet anchor
Yeah we'll see how it plays out
Numbers are still WIP so who knows
Maybe they'll buff bleeds or something
fleet whale
I'm a little nervous that depending on what talents are good
assassination could get a little bloated
fleet anchor
The main problem for Exsang
Is competing against Alacrity
Which is boring as hell, but still 10% Haste 😛
fleet whale
i still think Alacrity is placeholder
fleet anchor
Could be
crimson palm
im still baffled why we arent crying about hidden blades being still a last row talent
fleet anchor
I have cried about that many times
fleet whale
our talent tree in general is poor imo
fleet whale
the only good rows are the general rogue rows, like the vigor row etc
and some of the utility ones
vital haven
thats a lot of talent trees unfortunately
fleet whale
ours is still one of the worst imo
vital haven
i really thought blizz was gonna scrap the talent system
fleet anchor
Blindside could maybe be good.
fleet whale
i do see potential in new blindside
mellow pier
I think blizz intentionally designs things so that the most passive talents are usually best
fleet whale
Breath for frost? until now i guess
and i just wish blizz would make this new blindside baseline for assassin
mellow pier
It should be
fleet whale
as i think the proc could help with it's low apm
opaque mauve
465 socket galecallers is simming higher than 475 socket plumage , ?? I saw someone said the galecallers was sim bait anyone confirm ?
fleet whale
galecallers is good you can use it on most fights
mellow pier
Its better but way harder to optimize in raid
opaque mauve
I assume try and use it with each exang ?
crimson palm
mfd nightstalker ruptures lets go
feral agate
guys i have 20k residuum, what's the best piece a can take for both TB or exg build ?
mellow pier
Obviously if fight going to end before use u can line it up with something
@feral agate gorak tul mantle
fleet anchor
But yeah, for Shadowlands stuff I'm a little optimistic but hard to really know or think about anything until Rogues actually get some attention
And have Legendaries, etc.
opaque mauve
Ye the 1 min cd is nice
fleet anchor
Right now Rogues have just gotten so few changes it's hard to know what state we are really in
opaque mauve
That’s what I do atm
sand whale
mellow pier
I have 475 plume and gcb i never use gcb
opaque mauve
It’s simming about 1k higher
fleet anchor
I got a 475 Plumage... on my Hunter yesterday
Which I will never use
And it makes me very sad
mellow pier
@opaque mauve if u miss a cast or any or the buff u lose basically most of the bonus u would get
If u have to move for whatever reason ur fucked
fleet anchor
I mean, realistically as long as you get GCB->Exsang you don't miss much at all
opaque mauve
I’ve reached the point where mastery sockets and enchants are taking over dunno if that’s the reason
fleet anchor
It's only the non-Exsang usages you have to be careful on
The vast majority of the value of GCB is for the Vanish windows and for Exsang
The other ones are nice but non-critical
I do agree that Plume is easier to use obviously
But GCB isn't that bad
opaque mauve
Ye the moving part could screw u over
mellow pier
My gcb sims higher but ive gotten better results with plume
Thats my anectodal evidence
opaque mauve
We started killing raden now so maybe vita will be better when I get one
mellow pier
Vita should be ur 2nd trinket for sure
opaque mauve
I have currently Harlan’s dice and plumage 475 socket
umbral summit
Hi lads, recent reroller , haven’t raided on Rogue since Sub meme spec in Tomb of Sargeras just a quick Q about playing Deeper Stratagem - do I still want to use a finisher on 4+ combo points, or 5?
stiff flint
vita 460 is probably better than harlan's dice 475
opaque mauve
It’s simming lower for me
stiff flint
how much haste do you have
mellow pier
Need to get them expedients!
opaque mauve
I’m at 59 corruption now with 2 more in my bags
mellow pier
Oh is ur gear just not optimized or missing sockets?
opaque mauve
Il try sim vita again , haven’t simmed it since adding the 12% today
Ty for the advice
stone fable
if running DS do you still do 5 or 6 cp? or refresh elaborate with the unlucky 4cp?
stone fable
yeah
crimson palm
4+ cp for CT/Rup, 5+ env
strange python
Is condenced life force legit major for exsanguinate? Someone told me that it only sims well but isn't really that good
crimson palm
if rup falls of you should refresh it regardless of the cp amount
usually there's a 2cp rup after exsan
mellow pier
On ur opener if u get 5cp u CT, 6cp u rupture exsang
But yeah hemo is right with the finishers
@strange python it can be yes but most prefer blood cause its just good for every fight
If u dont have blood r3 use clf
crimson palm
@strange python it depends on your kill times, sub 3 mins bote is better, above 3 mins clf pulls ahead again
strange python
We're currently progressing Carapace, I suppose it's quite lengthly fight
mellow pier
Yeah bote IMO
On carapace
If ur progging u will get 2 bloods in last phase which is where the dmg matters
strange python
Alright, ty
crimson palm
you should run clf if you're progressing
it'll help you push boss dmg in p1 so you can skip the mind bomb wait
and its more boss dmg again in p3
intermission is w/e
mellow pier
How is clf more dmg than 2 bloods in last phase?
crimson palm
6:30 is the kill time
mellow pier
Hes gonna get 2 bloods in p1 and p2
crimson palm
and?
p2 growth dmg is pad
you get 2 effectives vendettas
on boss
one with lust and one on opener
fleet anchor
I mean, 2 bloods doesn't beat 1 CLF by default. 1 CLF can certainly provide more ST damage than 2 bloods in specific situations like that at high haste setups.
fleet anchor
I mean the way to go on prog is to optimize for P3 damage and if you just care about ST damage, CLF is just fine synced up with the Vendetta that overlaps whenever your group lusts
I don't really see what is terrible about that answer
steel ridge
CLF Rank 1 is terrible ye?
mellow pier
Even if u go dmg to boss logs top 100 92% are blood
fleet anchor
Sure, because 92% of all Rogue parses are Blood because nobody uses anything else out of habit 😛
crimson palm
because none of us care about the boss damage
fleet anchor
That doesn't really tell you if it's good or not
crimson palm
and we're padding on growths with blood in intermission
limber wagon
I'm at 40% haste, (only have two expedient 3s should get a third before friday, new alt)
But exang is already simming higher, so I should just be playing it now yeah?
mellow pier
Yeah if it sims higher sure
umbral rapids
probably a dumb question but how do you macro vendetta with plumage ? half the time my macro doesn't use plumage
fleet anchor
The main struggle Assassination has for optimizing P3 though is just understanding the fight timings of when your group will be pushing and when it will be using lust
So that kinda depends on your group
mellow pier
@umbral rapids /use 13
umbral rapids
#showtooltip
/cast vendetta
/use 14
i have this atm idk
steel ridge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jyvA6c8Gt7v7krhWyKFH8J can someone tell me whats the deal with the first variation? i cannot imagine that 1 crit gem instead of a haste gem gives me 1k dps
umbral rapids
hm that's odd then
steel ridge
no its not, it says 39
mellow pier
Top says 59
steel ridge
not talking about top, about the 104026
crimson palm
u forced something in the sim
steel ridge
its the same rings but with crit instead of haste gem...
crimson palm
instead of your default gear
mellow pier
Something is off with it
umbral rapids
thing from beyong is always 30%
strange python
Who cares healer mechanic
steel ridge
its always 30%?
steel ridge
ah it just runs faster
umbral rapids
yep
fleet anchor
There is no difference between those
mellow pier
Do pple in ur raid not run 59?
steel ridge
tbh i dont know how much my raid runs... one mage runs 75... but they can blink
mellow pier
Rogue is one of the best at running over 40
fleet anchor
Top Gear runs progressive multiple sims
mellow pier
DH is obviously better
fleet anchor
Lowest DPS options will generally have been run with a higher error margin
For quicker results
You can't totally compare low to high DPS results in top gear 1:1
If you sim them independently you'll see they are the same, that's why there are so many "variations" since they are all the same within error margin
steel ridge
ok that sounds reasonable
umbral rapids
@mellow pier sin rogue tho ? how ?
fleet anchor
The 3 "stages" of top gear are done with increasing accuracy, as it prunes out combos that have no chance of beating the better ones
To make it faster
rancid bobcat
there's only like 5 rows in there though does it still prune at that low amount
oh wait variations hidden
nvm
fleet anchor
Yeah this sim has like 70 permutations or something
candid token
I have a question, I got a Wrathion Dagger which has 95 Crit/72 Versa with a socket. Sims say it does roughly the same as a HC Carapace dagger which has 75 crit/89 haste. Should I still try to get a HC Carapace Dagger or should I stick with the Crit/Versa.. how important is having the Haste stat :/
loud light
sims work
rancid bobcat
you dont have to worry about the actual stats on your gear too much
but haste is generally pretty good
loud light
the more expedient you have, the more the haste gear will probably be better than not having haste (until very late in gearing) but the sims will reflect that
if they're roughly the same for you right now then it's not that important right now
lavish sky
How competitive can I be in m+ vs an outlaw rogue? The idea of getting two sets of corruption really annoys me but idk how hard it is to aoe as assassination in keys
timid coral
this effective, at least: https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-rankings/season-bfa-4/world/rogue/assassination
mellow pier
@lavish sky u can use raid setup and be ok for most keys but behind assassin/outlaw for st/severe builds
With st/severe builds u can play both outlaw or assassin with similar gear and be close dmg wise
Outlaw has far more control and utility tho which is why u bring a rogue to a high key
stone fable
Huh, sims have me rocking BotE as a minor with CLF as major for 3 min O.o
crimson palm
thats normal
crimson palm
but there's only 1 fight where u can use clf as a major
zinc zephyr
(expedient build)
crimson palm
check vexiona openers on logs
crimson palm
@fleet anchor has it been tested if on 2T it's worth delaying vendetta to rupture twice
since you lose emp garrote ticks
zinc zephyr
thanks for the info
fleet anchor
Hmm haven't looked at that specifically I don't think
wind nymph
Hello everyone, quick question:
is crimson tempest tic rate affected by haste?
is haste viable in AOE situation?
crimson palm
napkin math says that you get 20k+ rup ticks and lose 15k ticks from emp garrote
probably worth to rup before vendetta since vanish will make up for some of the loss
wind nymph
so basically if i don't wanna go mad is better to stay put with crit build
green forge
ye no1 else knows
@scarlet sequoia
No way you find a way to reach 135k with max 59 corrup on patchwerk 5 min ?!
scarlet sequoia
yes way
green forge
screen or fake 😎
scarlet sequoia
nah im not sharing anything, cba the dms
me and @fleet anchor know about it, thats it
so u can ask him
naive lynx
how much ilvl should I risk for more haste? like 2% more haste for 20 ilvl?
thats not worth it, right?
quasi pewter
@scarlet sequoia stop being rude 
wary ice
@naive lynx just trust your sims
naive lynx
but does my sim know that I'm going for Exped build? 😄
I'll just go for the highest ilvl for now
crimson terrace
trust the sim
crimson terrace
crit build is big brain
steel ridge
the difference between TB+PB vs. Exs.+CT is so miniscule in longer fights... the latter pulls ahead significantly at 3 minute fights for me tho... but is it really worth the harder rotation... so many questions
wary ice
@wind nymph ct tik rate is affected by haste, I have no experience using a haste build in m+ outside of workshop
So no real comment on it as far as competing with the crit build
wary ice
Very viable choice tbh
crimson terrace
rancid bobcat
check my sweet m+ setup
royal lantern
C R I T
crimson terrace
outlaw 
loud light
death to mutilate
rancid bobcat
loud light
long live fok
loud light
there was a hivemind parse a while ago that did the same
lash of the void procs just fine as long as you just never want to hit mut
royal lantern
you can fok and garrote without daggers
man
your brain is too big man
im calling the FBI
naive lynx
Can I aak why we go for one of the mechagon rings, which has low haste but high crit instead of a much higher haste ring? Do we need that crit stat?
crimson terrace
mech rings is extra stats
royal lantern
the ring effects are huge
crimson terrace
4 sockets worth of haste basically
naive lynx
the equip effect right?
naive lynx
:o okay thanks a lot
crimson terrace
annoying to farm toh
upper spear
spice glade
lmao its gonna feel so shit when we lose all our haste corruptions
games gonna feel so slow
chilly aurora
is there a soft cap on haste where i should start getting something like more honed mind instead? or just sim it
lone junco
@rancid bobcat I did some looks at a zero mut at the beginning of bfa. Hope your big flappers pump.
ebon heath
Do you guys know if you can get an azerite piece of gear you already got from rng titan residum armor?
sharp hollow
yes
sharp hollow
I gambled for a 480 chest got wrong one then gambled immediately after. Got the same one
lone junco
Yeah. Eb garrote evades me.
ebon heath
im full haste now
ebon heath
that happened with my mage character too, got 3 480 bis from gambling
lone junco
I got bis shoulder on hpal at 460 and 480 Gambles.
ebon heath
awful rng with my rogue
ebon heath
I killed carapace like 8 times for a 475 chest lol
got chest and helmet with my alt on my second run
please tell me theres no more rng in shadowlands
timid coral
what does that even mean? you get every piece of gear the first time you kill a boss?
drifting cloud
harsh sphinx
took me 10 bonus rolls to get the mythic one. rng gonna rng
patent topaz
ebon heath
@timid coral rng bosses are fine, rng azerite vendors sucks
balmy condor
@upper spear play whatever you’re comfortable with, they’re both fine
@chilly aurora we only get 1 honed mind 3, at the very end, keep simming, keep stacking haste
@steel ridge the rotation isn’t particularly harder, it’s just a different muscle memory
chilly aurora
appreciate the response, i'll keep simming ha
strange python
i dont get why sim says to go double douse
balmy condor
Cause it’s a good trait
strange python
and why not ss?
balmy condor
Depends on the piece
But if you’re going full exped, you’re still using a lot of mutilates
So dd is still pretty good
lone junco
@strange python depending on ilvl. and hastes, stuff can still be good. just not what people are aiming at for the endgame bis.
balmy condor
Yeah
tropic ocean
finally 34% crit
lone junco
one of our rogues sims best with racing pulse. but eventually once your actual gear catches up, the flat expedient might be best.
lone junco
my rogue friend is up to like 58% crit flat. that would be so nice.
lone junco
always loved high crits.
strange python
u cant go mythic cause ur gear is under a limit
lone junco
we pug 1 guy a week.
loud light
huh
astral tiger
With how my guild is pushing Carapace, I will have my second vendetta up ~when we get into p2. I will have time in between that and lust if I use it early in p2, but not much after. I can usually kill one of the tentacles solo, but I fear dying due to lack of heals if I run ahead. Should I just disregard my damage and stay with the group? Or should I go ahead and pop one and pray I don't get bad RNG? Please @ me if you have any suggestions, or feel free to pm me. Thank you ❤️
loud light
begone cursed image
strange python
u play sub?
balmy condor
Yes
balmy condor
It’s probably 30%+ worse in keys
And if you aren’t doing some weird cheese, it’ll be around 20% in raids last I checked
balmy condor
Well the way it’s looking, rogue is going to hit live with missing talents
So maybe sub will be the play
strange python
lol
balmy condor
Take a look on wowhead and tell me when the last changes to rogues were
Like 2 weeks ago?
But they can change druid lego’s and conduits and class changes and covenant abilities in the course of a day once beta launches
Not salty at all
normal olive
reroll druid got it
strange python
when curruption will be gone?
balmy condor
Prepatch
strange python
pre patch?
normal olive
With Prepatch
buoyant moat
Hey instead of 1 good cov ability now we have none so there's that going for us
strange python
when is prepatch tho
normal olive
Just cleanse your corruptions and you are playing prepatch
normal olive
balmy condor
Why do they do prepatches?
strange python
noo
strange python
deleting the curroptions
balmy condor
Cause the classes aren’t balanced for corruptions probably
strange python
hmmm
balmy condor
And they don’t want to give some weird gameplays a place to exist
People looking at changes trying to reroll
But the corruptions are making weird builds possible
Like exsang
strange python
so what are we doing in prepatch?
balmy condor
strange python
😂😂
balmy condor
Some type of scourge event apparently
strange python
do we still raid and do m+?
strange python
cause without curroption
balmy condor
To test out the changes I guess
strange python
that will not be possible
balmy condor
But I don’t see any reason to otherwise
strange python
or will it be
balmy condor
Aotc, CE, ksm
All gonna be gone
You won’t need the gear
So like
You can raid and m+
But why tho
loud light
prepatch brings all expansion changes minus expansion content, so the level squish will happen at the same time
everything needs retuning anyway
balmy condor
Yeah
strange python
well what do we do then
balmy condor
There’s a good chance they retune things
feral creek
Then the heavy nerfs for all contents will happen in prepatch
strange python
🤣
balmy condor
You do the prepatch content
loud light
you get used to class changes (if any)
strange python
well
loud light
level a warrior
balmy condor
Get caught up on the systems
strange python
why wari?
balmy condor
So you know what you’re doing
strange python
aight
balmy condor
Prepatch achievements
strange python
thank you guys alot
balmy condor
That will go away directly after
spark pike
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kbKfar62jq7MFHCeAETFXe any gear i can farm witouth it being mythic raid ?
balmy condor
Nop
spark pike
sad 😦
strange python
why dont u go mythic?
balmy condor
That’s basically end of the road if you’re not doing mythic
More sockets, chest RNG
spark pike
have no guild
balmy condor
Lot of people shake up what they’re doing and look for a guild
strange python
yeaa ..
balmy condor
Lot of guilds restructure
balmy condor
Night
naive lynx
when simming for pure ST I do 5 min. patchwerk?
balmy condor
Yeah but if your guild has faster kill times you can knock it down to 3
near coyote
Anyone in the beta yet
vestal wren
mystler too
balmy condor
tru
crimson palm
only rank 6 maut logs get it
dim ingot
very new to rogue, played s2 m+ as outlaw so trying to learn sin. don't have much corruption or gear so playing 3xDD. Do i still want expedient while trying to build up to 3x shroud? also is racing pulse decent for 3xdose?
dim ingot
ok thanks
balmy condor
you can sim yourself on that though
dim ingot
will sim it now, Strikethrough and expedient being up at the same time is annoying trying to gear sin/outlaw with very little echos :/
cyan bone
Do you insta get r4 cdl when you kill azshara mythic?
balmy condor
yeah that's what I thought
umbral rapids
whispyr
balmy condor
symfony
balmy condor
umbral rapids
tropic burrow
just a quick question, how much do you trust simulations? Do you use it more like a guideline or do you use it blindly like whatever it says?
balmy condor
yes
trusting it blindly is generally not a good thing
but you should have enough knowledge in order to know whats troll and what's not
like IS sims super high
pale tiger
trust it blindly unless it tells you to use the cannonball runner
pale tiger
kek
tropic burrow
yea ofc
balmy condor
generally though, you can trust it
dark crag
Post Send sims
balmy condor
yeah link it
tropic burrow
i know for rogue main stats are haste then crit but for some reason it says versa is better than crit
fleet anchor
Hey Cannonball Runner sims just fine
fleet anchor
It is not sims fault it never actually hits anything because it has a terrible hitbox and aims randomly in the wrong direction! 🤣
pale tiger
fleet anchor
That trinket is such ass
balmy condor
cut the damage in half
fleet anchor
Could add some special bfaopt for it
Doesn't really seem worth it considering most people know to run away from it
dark crag
Send raidbots links
fleet anchor
😛
tropic burrow
im trying to figure our which pants are the best in slot
dark crag
Use topgear in raidbots
balmy condor
and use that with a haste gem
umbral rapids
ur a gem
umbral rapids
tropic burrow
so im trying to figure where to put it since i already fucked up today
tropic burrow
self sanitizing?
tropic burrow
😄
balmy condor
that's what I get for running like 4 people's sims at once
AHHHHHHHHHHH
this looks much better
my eyes
saved
tropic burrow
phew
man younearly gave me a mini heart attack
was ready to go afk till shadowlands
balmy condor
sorry bout that XD
tropic burrow
also need suggestion about the rings, about the gloves and about the pants
balmy condor
but also I wasn't technically wrong about you not using CT
got a stygian equipped with TTK
tropic burrow
better to run with poison bomb?
tropic burrow
cool
cyan venture
Any idea why my sims say that 475 socketed harlans is better than 475 vita? Isnt vita our bis?
balmy condor
because sims don't take into account the party buff
and socketed harlans is a strong trinket
sockets are worth quite a bit
cyan venture
Okay, just confused cuz everyone is saying vita but sims are like get that harlans haha
balmy condor
yes
that's because of the party buff and the socket I mentioned before
vita is overall a better trinket
cyan venture
Alright thanks! I’m 477 equipped but still cant break 100k dps simmed. Stuck at 97.5k, is that normal?
I run <40 corruption tho
balmy condor
I mean, it can be
depends entirely on your gear
item level is actually meaningless
you can link a sim though
balmy condor
oh no
umbral rapids
Oh no ?
umbral rapids
Well
It’s actually not that bad now
With all the expeds
Just need a better junkyard ring
fiery fable
is it viable to run crimson tempest with the crit build over posion bomb in mythic+ or is it only good when running expedient in raids?
balmy condor
you should be running CT in m+ on everything except high tyran imo
workshop for example, don't run CT unless you're going for raid build
but if you're just going crit, you run CT in 90% of keys
fiery fable
okayyy thanks a lot
balmy condor
That’s not too janky
pale tiger
i'd run PB over CT in low keys too, trash just dies too fast for CT
umbral rapids
Yeah it’s getting better
pale tiger
its like garrote x 3, ct, fan, rupture aaaaaand everything is dead
umbral rapids
Ye
I’m keeping my severe just cause that’s the only JY ring i have kek
It needs a lot more sockets
fast nacelle
i dont get it why clf sims better than bote on 3 min
if you get 2x cds in with bote vanish n stuff
compared to 1x clf usage
fast nacelle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4mguXjArSxPT2KSaycq635 (clf but fight goes 3:10 so thats probably why)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kgjhDB7kPktNqGEEoWTd2f (bote)
first i thought last galecaller isnt up for exang but it is
eternal turtle
question with exsangquinate, guide says it should be used off CD but make sure garrote 15+ and rupture 25+s left. Lets say exsanguinate is about to come of CD but garrote has 13s remaining and rupture 24s, do you refresh both and then exsanguinate?
arctic walrus
eternal turtle
alright so u dont care about the wasted time by refreshing early?
fast nacelle
using exang without cds doesnt change much anyway for overall dps
eternal turtle
alright
balmy condor
The wasted time is made up by the pandemic time you get
Always 6cp rupture
Not 25+
fast nacelle
25+ and 6 cp doesnt counter each other if you just use garrote before exang
so you either do 5 cp garrote exang (for 6 cp)
or you do 6 cp rup and garrote exang (overcapping 1 cp)
balmy condor
Yeah
fast nacelle
unless there ll come up an add in the next 6 seconds blablubblub - then you dont always brainlessly use garrote... overall off cds exang dont matter that much
focus on the times you have cds up :D
balmy condor
Yeah agreed
fast nacelle
rly no rocket science
balmy condor
The spikes are high
fast nacelle
i got spyglass and galecaller 475 on my hunter
eternal turtle
alright so on ST basically just use garrote > rupture > exang no matter if ur on 5/6 cp
fast nacelle
instead of rogue
blizz tries to trigger me
garrote rupture if you are at 5 cp
rupture garrote if you are at 6 already
balmy condor
^
eternal turtle
ahh ok
balmy condor
Avoid overcapping
eternal turtle
ofc
shut garnet
do u always delay exang to line with vanish vend or do you delay vanish vend for 20ish sec each time ASSUMING you’re not gonna lose any full vend casts throughout the fight
fast nacelle
if an add comes up in the next 6 seconds to cleave you can consider using your garrote rather on the add than on your exang target
(if you are at 6 cp already)
balmy condor
You don’t delay exsang
fast nacelle
never delay exang we have short windows to line cds
shut garnet
is it worth not delaying even in the case that youd miss an exang in vanish vend?
fast nacelle
unless its your last exang of the fight
balmy condor
You delay vendetta for the vanish
shut garnet
wait, why delay it sub 2:20?
fast nacelle
rly depends on exact fight duration
shut garnet
doesnt that mean ur not getting a vendetta off?
eternal turtle
yeah question about overcapping, my sim with 2nd vanishes does vanish>gar>mutilate>gar > vendetta, just wondering since it always guarantees overcapping
shut garnet
if the fight is sub 2:20
fast nacelle
if the fight is sub 2:20 there is still a difference
crimson palm
Dont take the time literally
fast nacelle
how long it goes exactly
if its close to 2:20 you delay third exang for cds
if its close to 1:40/1:50
you even delay second one
balmy condor
@eternal turtle sim ability usage should be taken with a grain Of salt
As it warns at the top
shut garnet
but if the timer is 1:40/1:50 delaying it means ur just not casting exang again cuz the fight finishes before u get vendetta back???
what
balmy condor
Ideally you would 3cp gar rupture gar
shut garnet
eternal turtle
yeah thats what i thought, feels better
fast nacelle
if the timer is at 1:40 you get 2 exang in
third one is about at 1:36
eternal turtle
if ur at 0cp would you gar > gar?
fast nacelle
your second one is at 53
balmy condor
No
shut garnet
right, but if you delay it as you said, supposedly youre delaying it to use with vanish vend garrote which is only at like 2:15ish
balmy condor
Gar something gar gives you an extra tick
fast nacelle
so if you use only 2 exang but your second one is past 1 min you ll get another bote (if you play with it) in or second galecaller and second pot for sure
eternal turtle
aha i see
crimson palm
Sub 2 min you use vop minor and delay vanish
crimson palm
Mate just take a look at logs
There are a lot of variables
And see what the usage is like for a specific boss
balmy condor
That’s honestly the biggest brain advice
fast nacelle
if you have cloak in opener (and BE if you dont have clockwork shoulders ) why would you delay vanish (especially if you play with plumage)
balmy condor
There’s a ton of fight length and fight specific things
shut garnet
yea for sure, but generally speaking
how is it even possible to “delay 3rd exang” in a 1:50 fight
what are you delaying it for if vendetta comes in at 2:15?
fast nacelle
nah you delay second one
but not on a 1:50
more like 1:30-1:40 fight
when your third exang would be just 2-3 seconds w/e
shut garnet
if you dont delay anything on a 1:50 fight, you get to 3rd exang in bote
balmy condor
You delay for a better lineup
shut garnet
that sounds like the best lineup possible
shut garnet
on a 1:50 fight with no vop minor
crimson palm
Its sub 1% gain when u delay it for 1:30 burn
fast nacelle
to delay third exang
and then at 2:45-2:50
you dont delay shit
cause you ll get vanish 2:17 and have 2:3x 4th exang
and get everything done
actually really funny how many conditions you have based on fight duration
shut garnet
yea, mustve misunderstood then
cuz what i thought u were saying was that supposedly on a 1:50 fight youd delay exang for vendetta
which obviously isnt happening
fast nacelle
nah you delay exang to have a post 1 min usage of galecaller(which should be prefered in sub 2 in fights anyway) , dps pot and bote (if you dont play clf)
eternal turtle
for the non empowered garrote / rupture you can refresh from 5.4s and 7.2s or lower right
fast nacelle
otherwise you have 0:53 second exang.. without anything
and your second galecaller and pot is just used randomly..
shut garnet
clf with bote minor surpisingly outsims bote formless on sub 3 2 and 1:30 fights
idk why but
yea
fast nacelle
since fight wont go long enough to get your third exang fully enabled if the fight just goes 1:30-1:40
usually you want to play formless major anyway for sub 2 min
and bote minor
fast nacelle
then just go for clf and call it a day (its also better than bote vision)
shut garnet
do u get the minor when stealing a major with formless
balmy condor
@eternal turtle pandemic timer is 30% of the newly applied bleed. So garrote is always 30% of 18, rupture is 30% of the duration of the CP you’re casting at
fast nacelle
bc clf minor is 600 dps worse than bote minor
and you get only one usage of major essence anyway
eternal turtle
@balmy condor cheers
fast nacelle
so you will get clf - and play with better minor
shut garnet
yea but what im saying is, if u yoink a clf with formless major
do u get clf major, clf minor, formless minor
then everything else?
fast nacelle
formless major - breath bote iris minor
shut garnet
xd
ur not getting what im asking
like does the minor of clf proc when clf is stolen with formless major
fast nacelle
you wont get clf minor
fast nacelle
but you dont neet it - its bad
i dont run formless major cause im lazy and sometimes clf minor does 3.5% dmg
rather than 2.5% which is cool
but in general you want to ditch the clf minor for bote thats why you just use formless major
not sur if bote minor is better than clf if you look at lucky tries
maybe you can get 4% clf minor dmg with god rng
but on average bote minor should be better
shut garnet
not gonna lie, the difference between running clf bote iris breath vs bote formless iris breath is like 700
n bote just feels a lot better to use, prob just gonna stick with it
fast nacelle
i understand why 2 min clf is better than 2 min bote with vision minor
but i rly dont understand why 3 min fight clf is still better (1.2kish) for me
compared to 2x bote with full cds (trinket vanish vendetta pot)
but im also not engaged enough to do research so w/e
cyan bone
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b598HJEAX3qaCHnVpQ7N4b What are the best upgrades for me rn?
cyan bone
obv. not 😄
balmy condor
Azerite is a little messy
cyan bone
bought 4 shoulders didnt get it yet
balmy condor
Such it is
fast nacelle
if you dont get gorak look for the clockwork ones
cyan bone
Corruptions being cdl and blood?
shut garnet
no, corruption is expedient
shut garnet
yes those are the essences
balmy condor
Yeah blood clf
shut garnet
🤔
fast nacelle
best setup for all scenarios would be bote major and iris breath + X (usually formless and c&s)
shut garnet
isnt that what you asked though
crimson palm
i understand why 2 min clf is better than 2 min bote with vision minor
but i rly dont understand why 3 min fight clf is still better (1.2kish) for me
@fast nacelle because there's a variance in fight length
balmy condor
Chill guys
fast nacelle
i watched many fight lenghts
balmy condor
Typos happen
crimson palm
if you disable fight variance and hard set it to 3 mins it should be a win for clf
bote**
shut garnet
at 3 min fight length exactlyu dont even get a 2nd clf cast
fast nacelle
you get it at 2:58 cause it uses it pre
shut garnet
who uses it pre
balmy condor
The sim and some big boys
crimson palm
i have the sim somewhere gimme a sec
fast nacelle
i dont think using it pre is good
especially if you play galecaller
so many casts without max attackspeed
(also no bl)
balmy condor
I mean, the sim disagrees
fast nacelle
idgaf about sims
shut garnet
i wonder what the diff is between pre-casting clf and casting it after g rup g
fast nacelle
sims also told me its fine to not use second vendetta sometimes with minor vision
crimson palm
here it is
fast nacelle
sim is only a tool you need to check for improvements
my last improvement was a 4-5% increase for short fights
dont believe everything raidbot tells you
green basalt
farming workshop is fun boiiis
balmy condor
Tyra’s Not wrong
fast nacelle
its no conspiracies
sometimes it misses conditions
so you report stuff for research
balmy condor
But the problem they’re referring to is because shorter fight lengths weren’t optimized
So you get jank like that
Simulationcraft isn’t an AI
It’s just a set of rules that it follows
crimson palm
you lose out on the 5% haste buff
fast nacelle
and all haste benefits
so why would u just use it pre pull cause raidbot tells you so
loud light
that's not as simple a s you're making it out to be
balmy condor
After exsang is definitely troll
loud light
and this is why saying 'just use your brain' is a bad anti-simc argument
fast nacelle
i dont see how its not fine
ah wait do you get full stacks
befor exang if you use it infight
loud light
the argument for pre-casting clf is that the haste ramps up higher by the time you snapshot your exsang
shut garnet
does pre-casting clf pull u outta stealth
fast nacelle
ye
crimson palm
yes
balmy condor
Yes
shut garnet
yeah imagine if precasting just makes u start the fight out of stealth
fast nacelle
i think i forgot about the haste ramp up tbh
balmy condor
Have to vanish in the opener I guess if that happens
crimson palm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Pq7pFyTkQ9JmNgnz#fight=1&type=casts&source=45&start=389304&end=420350 you'll get 1 maybe 2 extra casts
and lose out on 2 haste stacks
balmy condor
Yeah it’s super minimal
fast nacelle
im trolling actually
balmy condor
lil bit
balmy condor
Oh boy
crimson palm
cast does 23k dmg
pretty sure you get well over 50k dmg if you snapshot more haste
napkin math
crimson palm
its not feelcraft
fast nacelle
yeah you need to pre cast it to get all stacks b4 exang
crimson palm
keep in mind it sometimes bugs out and doesnt cast for a few secs xD
fast nacelle
idk man i see the fight starting at -00:02
cause i bodypull without stealth
i think i ll just use it b4 vendetta
and call it
crimson palm
kekw
crimson palm
stand aside and shadowstep a bit early
the more prepots you fuck up, the more you can flex
eternal turtle
should galecallers be lined up with stuff or used on CD? (think my sim is using it on CD)
shut garnet
well, if used on cd it's guaranteed to line up w vanish vendetta sorta
balmy condor
The in between ones are on cd
shut garnet
slight delay on the first one, but fully in line after that p much
balmy condor
What are you delaying for
shut garnet
the second vendetta
balmy condor
You mean in the opener you delay?
shut garnet
since you gotta wait like 15s for vanish
balmy condor
That one you line up
eternal turtle
with stuff like that does it matter if you use it before applying a new dot or does it retroactively apply the more haste to existing dots
balmy condor
Exsang snapshots
Otherwise doesn’t matter
But you need to cast before exsang’s to get the haste buff
shut garnet
youd wanna use it pre-exang pretty much
eternal turtle
kk
ruby ibex
1 piece of Infinite Stars 2 is simming higher than dropping that for 2 more Expedient IIIs, as well as changing an Expedient II to a III; is that normal? Is infinite stars better than 27% more haste from all sources?
balmy condor
on sims, yes