mutilate give at least 2 CP
#assassination
green forge
vital haven
TRUE
green forge
there is no case you will have to mut 3 times
green forge
coz you still have 3 CP from 2nd garrote
vital haven
if you get unlucky
balmy condor
yeah
green forge
oh yeah, wasn't talking about that rota
rancid bobcat
even with a 3 mut i think you still get full value of blood crit damage
balmy condor
I think it gets pretty hairy
green forge
I think that's opener setups has been link by Raz
& pretty sure he didn't linked it without try it out
and in any case, if you feel like its not worth it
balmy condor
well the 2 mut is definitely a minor up
green forge
its mentionned that's minor upgrade
balmy condor
yeah
vital haven
it just feels wrong
balmy condor
you start to get into weird crit probabilities
and expected values
and that's pretty sp00ky
naive lynx
am i supposed to have Energy issues? o.O
naive lynx
haha you don't want ot know, I barely hit 120 a few days ago
balmy condor
then yes, you'll have energy issues
big energy issues
undergeared assassin is an incredibly slow spec
rancid bobcat
was there any apl testing on that
naive lynx
I'd better off just play Outlaw, huh?
balmy condor
I'm pretty sure there was some
@fleet anchor the vendetta mut 5cp CT opener variation was tested right?
crimson palm
obv
balmy condor
@naive lynx you can play whatever you want, sin is just slow
yeah I mean it was tested
but how much did we look into that
wet ruin
pretty sure he tested forcing the 5 cp rupture exsang and even 6 cp rupture exsang
and from what I remember it was either neutral or a small gain to do the ct
steep plover
What makes outlaw so good compared to sin in m+ ? Is aoe dmg? Utility?
rancid bobcat
i guess it does account for poopy crits
balmy condor
they can stack vers as well
sin rogue with 3x SS 3x EB is basically just a scuffed outlaw rogue without gouge
and reliant on vanish
crimson palm
outlaw can solo cc some mobs, doesnt rely on vanish and can chain pull packs
crimson palm
and vanish is needed to avoid some one shot mechanics
balmy condor
sin can pump harder in stuff like WS as well
steep plover
Wth the raid build?
steep plover
I wanna run a key with a good outlaw rogue to see how well they do
I guess at lower keys its hard to notice
balmy condor
in low keys you'll probably get smashed cause things die so fast
naive lynx
The aoe dmg is so insane tho with ss eb
@steep plover what is eb? sorry
balmy condor
3x
steep plover
I do 2-3
balmy condor
for heavy aoe
naive lynx
oh
balmy condor
2-3 is pretty usual
steep plover
3ss and 2-3 eb is the go to usually
steep plover
Im too scared to use the raid build bro in m+ lmao since im not used to it yet
drifting cosmos
Why's that
balmy condor
Why's what
wind flume
building up my rogue and i need more gear with the proper azerite traits, eb and ss. Am i about to get cucked if i try the random 475 azerite piece come tuesday?
balmy condor
you always get cucked
but that's how you have to roll it
there's no other way to get eb/ss
drifting cosmos
Chest and shoulder can gamble
balmy condor
you either save and specific buy at the end of the expac
steep plover
It teaches u how to deal with cuckage
drifting cosmos
Head is a lot harder
balmy condor
or you gamble gamble
yeah don't gamble head
shoulders/chest though are pog
gamble those
wind flume
got ya
wind flume
20k resid is outrageous, guess ill have enough by the time shadow lands comes around
wind flume
whats prio, eb vs ss
balmy condor
SS
steep plover
Ss
drifting cosmos
I mean I probably suggest gamble 465 head
drifting cosmos
But either way it seems late to start brand new char
wind flume
k, right now im rocking 3x ss and 1x eb. looks like im going chest piece on tuesday
drifting cosmos
Unless you getting it ready for SL
wind flume
i mean im just playing the game, my group of friends are just pushing mythic keys and pvping
steep plover
I got 425 ring with td3 aswell
balmy condor
425
steep plover
I still use it sometimes lmao
balmy condor
mega unluck
steep plover
When im doing islands or some dodgy shit
How do we get over thr fact that we're a b tier outlaw in m+
drifting cloud
.. ?
balmy condor
you run keys under 25's
and live your life happily knowing that you're not playing outlaw
balmy condor
sin isn't bad
steep plover
Ty
steep plover
Bet
balmy condor
the problem comes when you're trying to like 27's and 28's
steep plover
Ye probs wont be running 25+s since we near the end of xpac
balmy condor
and you have very little vers compared to outlaw
and you're getting fucked by mechanics you can't feint
so then you have to replace your strikethroughs with vers
and then its yuck
steep plover
Would u run elusiveness on high af keys
balmy condor
cause then you're actually a worse outlaw rogue
you can if you're confident
but usually the cheat death is just better
cause we're all idiots
wind flume
outlaw 🤢
balmy condor
and stand in dumb shit
steep plover
Ye lets cancel outlaw rogues boys
Atleast we shit on them st
That makes me feel better
balmy condor
its gonna be interesting to see the meta in SL
cause right now outlaw doesn't seem to be slowing down
steep plover
Ye they havent said shit have they
steep plover
Ripp
balmy condor
sub has some decent changes
that might be thing depending on how the tuning pans out
steep plover
I miss sub
balmy condor
but sin also has just missing talents and shit
its way to early for anything concrete
but as of now, not looking great
steep plover
I feel like they want to make outlaw the m+ spec and then sin the raid
balmy condor
that's kinda always what its been tbh
even in WoD, combat was the aoe spec
they just rebranded, and now outlaw is the aoe spec
that's kinda always been their design
steep plover
I wish it was easier to gear for both together if thats the case
balmy condor
probably not going to happen
sin is too haste reliant as a spec
and outlaw is very much the opposite
balmy condor
I do as well
hellfire assault with combat
felt good
having to manage your colors
pepperridge farms remembers
empty ravine
pvp mace spec was op
steep plover
Imagine playing wow that long ago
wind flume
<--
empty ravine
i only got like 10 and 20lb barbells sad
naive lynx
Guys, how do I manage with the corruption effects?
empty ravine
i think so
balmy condor
you move out of the eye
empty ravine
see what you do
empty ravine
is you get over 100 corruption
balmy condor
you can blind it
empty ravine
and kill shit faster than you die
steep plover
Eat it
If ur in raid
I let my healers know
Cause sometimes its hard to move out the way
naive lynx
What do you mean by saying "feint it with elusive"
balmy condor
you can cloak it
naive lynx
You are talking about the spell Feint?
balmy condor
or you use the lego
empty ravine
what do you mean what does he mean
balmy condor
yes, if you're taking elusivenss
naive lynx
I don't understand this expression
empty ravine
read elusive
balmy condor
you feint
empty ravine
its a talent
balmy condor
elusiveness is a talent
naive lynx
oh my god
balmy condor
feint is the ability
empty ravine
plebbb
balmy condor
elusiveness makes feint reduce non-aoe damage
drifting cosmos
You have some homework to do mate
empty ravine
wrongo
naive lynx
I see now 😄 but everybody recommended Cheat Death
balmy condor
elusive adds non-aoe damage reduction
wild compass
how much crit do u want for the bleed build ? currently 68% haste 26% crit
balmy condor
it doesn't add all reduction
you want the crit that sims highest for you
we don't have breakpoints for that stuff
wild compass
oh ok thanks
empty ravine
ppl saying aim for 34%
wild compass
How do i sim higher crit%?
balmy condor
re-gem, sim gear with more crit
empty ravine
but only cause i think thats what you will get with 1 ring having crit main stat
balmy condor
as long as you sim potential upgrades you'll be fine
wild compass
oke what about mastery ?
balmy condor
mastery is also good
empty ravine
ya its good
wild compass
currently have 52%
empty ravine
im confused tho
wild compass
when do i stop
balmy condor
no breakpoints
empty ravine
cause dont you want haste
balmy condor
you don't stop
wild compass
i see
balmy condor
you simulate
wild compass
if u guys have free time would it be possible for someone to go over some mythic logs i have?
i need all the help i can get
balmy condor
sure
wild compass
this was my first kill on maut https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZHcCRQdXk6AqDnLW#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=10
wild compass
what should i switch to
balmy condor
quick nav
wild compass
noted,thanks
balmy condor
you can sim the difference as well
that'll be a couple hundred dps most likely
this was your second burst
probably should pot a little earlier to let the stacks gain
if we're optimal
you're also forcing the CT in, which is a little bit down
drifting cosmos
I tried plumage in keys, it felt good
balmy condor
this is a no no
drifting cosmos
A second cd
wild compass
could you expand on the nono part please
balmy condor
always garrote->6cp rup->exsang
regardless of time
if you're in the situation where that rupture is gonna drop
that rupture should've been a 3cp rupture or whatever
into a 6cp for the exsang
but ideally that would be avoided
wild compass
oke
wild compass
how much should i have ?
balmy condor
90ish+ is fine imo
you'll have some inherent downtime with burst phases
cause it'll drop while you're setting up the exsang and all that
I also see some mutilates at 4 in that pull
I mean
at 5
wild compass
balmy condor
so just be more mindful on overcapping cp like that
wild compass
during burst do i prio big envenom or ct?
wild compass
wrote everything down,thank you for your time ^^
wild compass
no major red flags in the logs atleast
balmy condor
mecha rings are giga
the ring itself is fine
but like
455 and exped 2 and a gem slot and bleh ew
yucky yucky
wild compass
didn't buy the slot
wild compass
gearing is confusing me a lil bit
idk if i troll by wearing anything other than haste mast
balmy condor
haste/crit is slightly preferred
but don't take that as "I NEED THE CRIT NOW IM DOING THE CRIT CRIT GOOD THE INTERNAT MEN SAY THE CRIT"
wild compass
lol
wild compass
is it ?
balmy condor
its a bit of a balancing act
wild compass
a 12/12 rogue i asked said its troll to get expedient on anything without haste on
balmy condor
he's half right
when I say 1 piece of non-haste
I'm talking like 110k sims with giga optimized
gems in every slot
that kind of thing
in SOME of those cases, you'll see a non-haste piece end up a couple hundred dps up
as a general baseline, he's correct
haste on every slot
the fully correct answer is a little more nuanced than that is the point
wild compass
not gonna use all of them
balmy condor
oh i see
wild compass
i just hate getting an "upgrade" and not being able to use it for a month
appreciate the advice
balmy condor
np
stiff flint
i was gonna buy 7 and use them all
is that too much lmao?
not sure how much haste is good to play with
balmy condor
he already has 4
stiff flint
oh okay
balmy condor
that's why I said that
stiff flint
i have 0 rn so having 7 isn't too much is it?
balmy condor
nah that's fine
balmy condor
a ton
stiff flint
sheesh
red pagoda
there's also the crit vers pants from skitra
runic kiln
exped3 stack probably not the ideal for m+, severe/strikethrough the best bets?
balmy condor
exped3 stacking is fine
its a heated discussion
severe/strikethrough would be your second set
we change our pieces depending on affix/key a lot
so its not very cut and dry
runic kiln
shiv/tb and snd baseline in shadowlands feel like the rotation might just be obnoxious
balmy condor
if snd duration is long enough I don't think it matters that much
strange lichen
They need to hurry up and work on rogue
balmy condor
it was like 45 seconds or something ridiculous in WoD iirc
1 finisher every 45 seconds
not that tedious imo
vast forum
nah, in wod it was passive
before wod, envenom would refresh it to full 5cp duration
so it wasn't something you had to worry about
runic kiln
guess itll depend on shiv
maiden anchor
does mind-numbing poison work on mobs in shadowlands?
balmy condor
I mean, it would probably work in open world with warmode
Cause that’s how that works
So I would assume mind numbing works in shadowlands too
It is only open world though
ruby ibex
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/92shmjECZsJFsvSRR24oQj
That's my highest sim yet (still annoyingly low, I know), my gear seems significantly better than before... yet worldvein rank 2 is still the best (with 0 allies), and MA/TB/PB is simming higher than Sub/Exan/CT. I don't have high quantity sims, so I've run several different ones and that's the highest. Is it still just that my gear is poor? I remember 35% haste being the point at which Exan becomes better than TB?
ruby ibex
Interesteding, 89 and Exan with PB
weary badger
balmy condor
you can sim yourself
but exsang quickly takes over
exped vendor tomorrow
so its pretty free
strange python
if you plan to not replace that for a month
steep plover
Still havent got good 475 haste gear
The only way i replace is through weekly chest rng
balmy condor
465 gear is fine
imo
475's from raid first though
but if you have 465 mecha rings
that's usually pog
steep plover
I have 1 460 and 1 465 for mecha rings
Im gna check what haste gear i can get from M nya and any 465 gear that wont be replaced ill probs chuck on expedient
strange python
Guys im so excited for exp3
I have soooo much gear ive been sitting on
MY BODY IS READY
wary seal
guys, random question, i m not wrong, TD and twisted apendage are haste procs?
main warren
TD is ye
balmy condor
hype
karmic zenith
How do you survive the last boss in TD? The boss sometimes casts that explosive burst twice in a row. Feint one but the second one 1shots :(
Its on a 22key, I assume tyrannical week will be even worse
balmy condor
can cloak it btw
I guess that's implied by "fire damage"
but thought I should mention
not really much else to cloak on that fight now that I think about it
karmic zenith
From full with feint it gets me to50- 40%ish
But he casts it almost immediately again sometimes
balmy condor
yeah that's the rng of that boss
he picks abilites in any order
so if it happens
you just gotta feint and top yourself up
health pots, vial
cloak if you can
probably will pop cheat death
karmic zenith
Yeah, been doing that, I honestly think its also a hps check too from the healer
balmy condor
yep
steep plover
U might be overlapping it with other players?
umbral rapids
u hurt
fallow otter
Do you guys look at iris minor for raid as sim bait?
balmy condor
still running lucid minor with all those sockets
you should probably not do that
play iris minor my dude
fallow otter
Im just simming after new expedients
Been lazy coz killed nzoth ages ago
Raid dps doesn't give me a semi once the content is on farm with buyers
balmy condor
fallow otter
Just been buying strike through severe for key pushing tbh
How is your sim looking? I should be simming 3min actually
balmy condor
Yeah I mean the coral replaced with a galecaller
But you’re pretty optimized
Not much left tbh
fallow otter
Yeah I've got a 475 gcb I'm scared to sim
You running bote major and gcb anything else?
fallow otter
Simming 3mins I'm guessing bote gonna come out in front
balmy condor
CLF still beats on 3 min for me
balmy condor
It’s honestly not that bad
steel ridge
With this reset, we can run 59 corruption (170 before resist) which is 6 Exp3, 1 Exp2 and HM3. Right?
Or go less risk at 39 with one less Exp
balmy condor
I’m running 8x exped 3 1x exped 1
arctic walrus
you dont run HM for another like month
steel ridge
We dont?
balmy condor
Yeah
arctic walrus
2-4 weeks or something cant remember
steel ridge
Damn
steel ridge
i got a nice HM piece tho 😦
steel ridge
reset is in 24 hours for EU
steel ridge
Cause first i have to buy shit
balmy condor
I’ll dm you
steel ridge
can try later today if you are available (at work)
steep plover
Why the fuck do i keep getting haste/vers and crit/mas
balmy condor
Cause you’re bad
steep plover
I legit need the opposite
balmy condor
steep plover
TRUE
balmy condor
Don’t get mad, get better - Jdotb
scarlet sequoia
icy girder
balmy condor
Prepatch it goes away ye
uncut schooner
Prepatch corruption goes poof, though azerite + essences will remain
Just won't be useable in shadowlands (as in the area and without a doubt pvp too)
You'll still be able to use them back in Azeroth which is a bit of a weird design choice but I guess by that point at max level with the new legendaries/sets you'll be better off dumping the heart anyway.
uncut schooner
Same thing they did with the legion legendaries right? Could only use them up until 115.
And then they became redundant.
balmy condor
Ye
formal kraken
Can you dodge Eudora shots with Evasion?
floral shoal
No clue, I always shadowstep her
formal kraken
Not the aoe grapeshot, the directly targeted to you
balmy condor
Can’t dodge that
quasi pewter
you can
tropic ocean
You can evasion it
You can los it
And you can dodge it
you can play elusiveness
And if you have warr tank he can intervene for you
fiery minnow
how well does the haste build do in m+ compared to the severe + strikethrough build?
junior atlas
what is bis corurption for assa ? exp3?
fallow otter
Raid?
fallow otter
Different for each
If you want bis
But lots of expedient and one hm is BiS for raid and that will also do just fine in m+
But it's not bis
junior atlas
whats "hm"?
junior atlas
GW is just shit now ?
fallow otter
It's all in pins, hm is last but follow sims
I still run one on my 485 boots atm
But exp is just better
wet ruin
ilvl does not matter for it
junior atlas
my rogue is just my alt so dont really ahve the gear /echos to farm multiple sets
i would just like it to be competeable in mythic raids / do some arena on it
steel ridge
Well then you are fucked
junior atlas
i guess i can buy some exp3 tomorrow and then see what happens 😛
steel ridge
Our azerite game is random af, our gearing is not alt friendly
junior atlas
ye i suppose, but w/e rogue is still fun to play
steel ridge
Just go with exp, shrouded suffocation and make it work in all 3 contents
crimson palm
you're better off with full gw build if you wanna pvp
raid build doesnt work in pvp content
steel ridge
Or go triple TTK and pump big finishers
steel ridge
My thoughts exactly. Direct damage is not a bad thing in m+
crimson palm
nah lol
wet ruin
that triple TTK build sucks and requires just as much gearing as expedients or GW or any other build
kind edge
You guys use CT only to refresh the bleeds? Talking about m+
plain thistle
for single target yes
naive lynx
can a sin rogue reach the same AOE numbers as Outlaw? 😄
plain thistle
you can probably do more, it will depend on the target number and pack duration
thin cargo
That's an easy sim
kind edge
You spam more CT than just to refresh bleeds in bigger packs?
plain thistle
yeah, for large AoE you can spam CT, but I dont remember how many targets is required for spam to be better
cant remember if its 6+ or 8+ or 10+ 😂
kind edge
haha, so guess this means huge packs indeed
otherwise just to put bleeds on
and proceed with envenom for cleave
plain thistle
and if using 3x EB its probably better to spam FoK and not CT
kind edge
You spam FoK either way, but I was asking for dumping combo points
plain thistle
especially during blood buff window
thin cargo
CT then ruptures
kind edge
Really? In bigger packs you just spam FoK, you don't dump combo points?
Even with 2x EB?
I mean 3x
nvm
I got 3x haha
forgot
So if it
plain thistle
but I dont know if its the universel rule, some people like to finish just to maintain elaborate planning buff
and to maintain CT dot, after that just spam FoK
kind edge
Yeah Elaborate Planning is useful to maintain
So with CT you use envenom only when you cleave and on ST
Aight, I'll try CT
plain thistle
ofc talking about large AoE packs, things change for prority target and cleave, etc
kind edge
Thanks mate
Do you have a rough estimation on how much dps you lose with using poison bomb instead of CT?
I know this is hard to estimate because it varies on how much the mobs are being moved etc
But still... 😄
kind edge
You can sim m+ environments?
fallow otter
dungeon slice
kind edge
Alright, I'll try right away
fallow otter
pretty good
kind edge
Dungeon Slice BETA?
kind edge
Yeah I presumed you can't because m+ environments are pretty hectic and somewhat unpredictable at times. Also mechanically varies a lot from dungeon to dungeon but still, guess it's good to see raw damage.
So just set Dungeon Slice Beta and I'm good to go?
fallow otter
dungeon slice is a great start
then from there you can go poison bomb in KR etc
but nothing crazy
can just go with the sim
kind edge
wtf, it says I lose 1.5k dps with CT
But yeah, that's expected, because in a real m+ environment the tank moves the mobs a lot so Poison Bomb is not as effective
This probably just sims dummies
crimson palm
Depends on your gear
plain thistle
high keys you should use CT pretty much in every dungeon
PB just doesnt do enough damage, even if tanks dont move the pack
strange python
oh nice, my dungeon slice seems pretty accurate
wet ruin
@kind edge can you link that sim
atomic pond
would you recommend going with 3 pieces of Infinite Star (level 2) or 2 pieces of Infinite Star (level 2) and 1 piece of Twilight Devastation (level 2) ?
vast forum
use CT in every single dungeon
if you do small trash dungeons, run single target build and CT will be better than PB anyway
if you do big trash dungeons, CT is just better for aoe, regardless of which build you run
wet ruin
I have a feeling TTK is involved in the simming
woven summit
In what dungeons do you guys run ST builds? Workshop?
vast forum
All of them :)
There was a lengthy discussion ydah
Yday*
It's strictly better in a few and debatable in others
Strictly better in kr ws jy
And i'd say tos
Everything else is about affixes, grp comp and key lvl
hearty pewter
This feels like a dumb question, but from Mechagon, do you need the nature damage ring of the haste proc?
vast forum
Haste
hearty pewter
Would've been my guess, thanks for confirming 🙂
regal magnet
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic hatch
475
woven summit
I see Seliathan has a very interesting build that might work for both aoe and ST situations, with 3x SS and a combination of Hearth and Blightborne Infusion
Sounds like this could be a very good universal build for m+
plain thistle
yeah, the normal raid build with minor changes, but seli isnt playing the game that much anymore
isnt "his" build
woven summit
Oh he's not? He's waiting for Shadowlands I presume
plain thistle
yeah, he stopped like 2-3 months ago? cant remember
woven summit
Anyway, you think this is a good build for all dungeons and affixes of m+?
Got kind of confused now about when to run ST build in m+
plain thistle
I do, and i use that for pushing medium-high keys (24-25), but other people think severe/strike is better for keys
woven summit
You use the same azerite traits?
plain thistle
but its competitive and can be better for some dungeons, where ST/cleave is more important
yeah, 3ss + 2 Hod + 1 blightborne
woven summit
Nice, this really looks like it's more universal. I run 3x EB but sometimes it sucks
Depending on situation
I feel like Seliathan's traits here are more consistent
plain thistle
yeah, for dungeons like KR or WS it feels better for me, because bosses are harder and trash packs are smaller and more dangerous (and for obelisks the damage is really good)
and for junk is good too, because shock bot scales with haste
but I dont think assa can use a universal build, in my opinion the correct play is to adapt a little bit for every dungeon
woven summit
Does severe/strike means you run 3X EB?
wary ice
3x eb gives better overalls in my experience
The only dungeons eb under perfoms in are KR and WS; and arguably siege
But the 3ss + stats build works for sure in any of them
woven summit
Can you use SS and DD/NP in KR, WSG, Siege?
wary ice
I mean you can do anything
woven summit
Guess that's a no 😄
wary ice
I wouldnt use DD or >1 NP in keys ever, assuming limitless azerite choices
wary ice
the haste build works cause the aoe u lose from not having 3eb is made up for in asome way with Deeper Strat + tempest
and thne also your stupid fucking openers on bosses
DD and >1 NP dont really do much in either of those situations. in aoe you still fok for CP, and in ST your damage is exsang'd Garrotes still
at least thats how i think of it
I'm a 2.9k shitter so grains of salt
I also vastly prefer the crit build
woven summit
Yeah true, I'll focus on the crit build as well, just waiting for 24 July to buy corruption
Outlaw is so much easier to optimize but I can't stand that spec
wary ice
true on all counts tbh
strange python
I've just been using my normal raid build for keys and it seems to be fine tbh. but I'm also only doing like 18s so ignore me
woven summit
What's your normal raid build?
strange python
Throw as much haste on as possible
But my gear sucks, hardly any of it even has haste
steel ridge
well, you got gorak tuls, which is nice
strange python
First pull from the shoulder lottery
Got lucky on that one
Dungeon slice is pretty accurate for me too it seems, and I usually don't have any issues with 18s but i haven't tried anything higher
north pond
So quick question what are my Traits I’m gonna be using for mythic plus? I’m haste/exg build
woven summit
I don't understand this, you sim more than me on dungeon slice and I have 3x EB
My corruptions suck though
wary ice
The dungeon slice pulls are a lot smaller than what makes eb good
IIRc it does likea 1 target 3 minute boss fight -> 3 pull ->5 pull
something close to that
with restealths, high haste and garrote will be big on that type of sim
woven summit
Yeah actually, that plays a major factor
wary ice
So quick question what are my Traits I’m gonna be using for mythic plus? I’m haste/exg build
@north pond the standard is 3x Shrouded suffocation 3x echoing blade
gray hazel
Anyone know when good spots to use vendetta on M Nzoth after the inital 2 burns?
north pond
Okay thank you @wary ice also what essences? Thanks again
wary ice
I run Bote Major, CnS, Lucid, botd
woven summit
yeah same, except I don't use CnS because I don't play arena
wary ice
U can drop CnS for VoP minor if u dont want to do pvp
but BotE is pretty irreplaceable, you can use iris instead though if ur really against it
woven summit
VoP is better than Iris minor?
wary ice
TBH i forget ur allowed to take iris minor 🤷♂️
woven summit
Yeah, people always recommend Iris minor here if you don't have CnS
wary ice
Makes sense
north pond
So I don’t need CLF?
wary ice
not for keys
tropic ocean
Iris minor is better than cns with haste build
gray hazel
@tropic ocean Alright, for the invoke stuff, im having a hard time finding any good uptime to have on the boss
is there usually a sweet spot there thats ideal?
aside from the burn phase at the end
tropic ocean
When u soak first
Adds u immune anguish
Get full uptime on boss
Then again after chamber
Usually
gray hazel
Alright, ill practice that this raid week. Thanks a lot!
crimson palm
U can delay it till before secret phase if ur not comfortable
Ppl pump early because u can 3x garrote harvesters
gray hazel
RIght now, i was using it during the burn phases, then kinda willy nilly after that
crimson palm
2 30 5 30 8 00 10 30 would be ur timings
fallow otter
is formless minor proc rate in sims pretty bang on or under/over valued?
tropic ocean
Pretty accurate 80-90%
fallow otter
default atm
gray hazel
Does the timings matter if you lust on nzoth burn 2, or after secret phase?
fathom swift
So is default accurate for your raid?
crimson palm
Does the timings matter if you lust on nzoth burn 2, or after secret phase?
@gray hazel no
At least not for rogues
tropic ocean
You should lust later so you can have lust during mc
fallow otter
So is default accurate for your raid?
@fathom swift never looked, not sure if anyone runs yet, ill check - have you checked yours? if so, wheres it at
gray hazel
Thanks a lot for your help gents!
fathom swift
Which is pretty normal if your tanks are running crucible major
fallow otter
84.74% first boss
fathom swift
Theres a lot of downtime anyway on wrathion so seems right
strange python
run those cannonballs boi
runic kiln
i wanna die
dawn root
given that 5 mask visions are easy, from a purely max dps standpoint and since you get a lot of haste from titan buff etc., would you say stacking crit is likely the best play or are you all running just super max haste expedient stacking still?
runic kiln
no need to optimize for a 5mask run, but if you really wanted to, you could gear swap for boss vs trash with an equip set
glad crown
Are these any good for assassin?
or is the raw stats better? I'd imagine the damage is increased by toxic blade - no?
neat estuary
Do they Share CD with pots or anything?
glad crown
No and it appears that the damage bonus is effected by toxic blade
shrewd night
It isnt.
glad crown
6753 damage ticks before toxic blade 7159 after the application
shrewd night
Oh yeah shit
I was looking at a old tooltip
It used to be affecting whitelisted abilities
quasi pewter
normal wrists are better
runic kiln
ever a reason i should keep this 475 cannonball runner?
sullen pagoda
bag ilvl 
stoic gulch
I'm seeing rogue's using CT on mostly single target fights, when do we make that change?
balmy condor
60ish% haste
scarlet sequoia
when it sims higher
balmy condor
crisp sluice
what stats do i want for the expedient build
haste mastery right?
any sweet spot percentages?
aka how much crit and mastery should i aim for
I know the guides in the pins, but its a month and a half old and I want to know if theres any tweaks to know about. Still 7x EX 3, 1x EX 2 and 1 honed mind 3 the best?
balmy condor
Haste/whatever
No breakpoints
And that is the setup we’re looking at going forward
crisp sluice
so you claim it doesnt matter if i go crit haster or crit mastery?
balmy condor
Correct
crisp sluice
how come we want a honed mind 3 then
sinful iris
One thing I'm not seeing about that build, should I run my next highest weighed secondary as my other enchant? Or force multiplier? Or just sim it?
crisp sluice
depending on what about my character
crisp sluice
true
balmy condor
Instead of hm3
crisp sluice
but what if I went to stack some crit instead
i have a lot of crit haste gear
but people are telling me to use haste mastery not crit
balmy condor
Are these ‘people’
crisp sluice
ce rogues
balmy condor
Aha
Yeah It doesn’t really matter too much tbh
Like you’ll see people with haste/mast and then crit gems sim higher
Or haste/crit and then mast gems
steel ridge
the aforementioned corruption setup is 190 corruption, which is optainable in like 7 weeks?
balmy condor
It’s all a balance cause all our stats are good
steel ridge
by then its almost Shadowlands time 😄
balmy condor
Yep
strange python
Is mythic coral still bis trinket?
fiery fable
should i have crit sockets or vers sockets for mythic+?
quiet radish
It varies on gear some indicate crit some say vers
balmy condor
Vers definitely if you’re pushing into like 24-25+
Crit is fine otherwise assuming you’re not capping
bronze topaz
do we delay exsanguinate for galecaller's? eg use both together at ~65 s
novel drum
just screamed when i got a 475 plumage
novel drum
think im just going to run with 475 plumage rather than 465 galecallers
green forge
green forge
gcb could still be better in some situation I presume
but overall I would chose 475 plumage for sure
novel drum
honed mind 1 is 10 corruption right?
fringe socket
whats the opener with condensed life force? i feel like im overcapping energy using a gcd on my essence with all this expedient
i have like 8 expedient and 477 ilvl big boy
novel drum
overcapping is just going to happen in your burst
novel drum
even when youre outside of your exsang energy is flowing like crazy
sinful iris
If there ever a point at high haste where master poisoner outperforms elaborate planning or is the flat 10% too good?
runic kiln
racing pulse relatively interchangeable with honed mind as our last non-exped corruption?
ocean torrent
@runic kiln gotta see what your specific gear SIMs better with. Mine originally said swap to all mastery gems but using Racing Pulse, then flipped back to all haste gems with Honed Mind
sweet rampart
oh my god, i got a 475 galecaller's...i don't even know how to use this stupid thing...
ocean torrent
every minute lol
sweet rampart
i pretty much have to use it over my glad badge 460, but i just know it is a pain to use with snapshotting and stuff
strange python
How much expedient 3 are you guys running
strange python
How much corruption
ocean torrent
currently 44
ocean torrent
yea unless I put on like an IS for Shadhar or something
strange python
Fuck my healer is going to hate me lol
Hey @ocean torrent how much crit% is good enough
lunar tangle
whats is the best essence set up for assa rogue in raids using night stalker and Toxic blade
ocean torrent
I'm currently at 33% @strange python
strange python
Ty @ocean torrent
ocean torrent
anyone have any information on the value between Logic Loop of Division vs Recursion? I would think that DIvision is easier to maintain since it's basically 100%
strange python
can anyone tell me how to make an advanced sim to ignore clf being used prepull so i can check how much dps i lose by using it normally?
fathom swift
Just edit the apl should do it
loud brook
cyan bone
What are bis Trinkets for raid? Coral + vita?
ocean torrent
Plumage and Vita
novel drum
@sinful iris elaborate planning has higher uptime with the more haste you get as you can pump more finishers out, so no it scales just as well as master poisoner with more haste so it stays better
cyan bone
Oh really? 😮 okay
cyan bone
Idk whether I should buy expedient 3 or not
Well wether I should gear for assa even though I dont have the azerite traits for it
vast forum
EP's uptime doesn't change much with higher haste tho
or at least it doesn't scale as well
but MP doesn't scale better than EP at any theoretical gear level
shut garnet
if CT only sims 200 less than PB on patchwerk, it'd still be alright to take for xanesh and vex to parse right?
vast forum
probably
novel drum
more than likely yeah
what do you guys run for minors in visions? i run clf, crucible, and reaping
strange python
In visions I just slap on leach and do my normal thang
crude bobcat
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oFzkpkR2umNQwVeiops9L today is a good day 🙂
expedient 3 day best day
crude bobcat
yee i have an extra one but saving for mythic cara dagger
so that'll put me over 100k
ocean torrent
in visions I just go Outlaw 😄
dark crag
is the assa guide updated with the bleed stuff?
crude bobcat
i despise outlaw personally
dark crag
easy gorak tuls first try in assa lootspec
ocean torrent
I love Outlaw, I just hate when you can't roll a decent roll to save your life
rigid eagle
but u get so much extra haste in visions
and exsang sin is the only thing that really scales with haste...
ocean torrent
GCDs are GCDs
Outlaw can just mash buttons faster
I feel like I have much more survivability in Outlaw
fleet whale
Idk both are fine for visions, and if you dot up like three enemies in a vision
apm wise they are probably the same
wanton monolith
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
dark crag
damn i got no expedients and no hod active and only 35% haste, but the energy is flying in
rancid spade
why 34% crit¿?
rancid spade
no alts?
scarlet sequoia
2 alts
mental trout
Wait... you can’t get gorak shoulders if you have outlaw loot spec enabled?
pale tiger
yeah that's exactly .51% too low sorry bud
plain thistle
unplayable
mental trout
easy gorak tuls first try in assa lootspec
@dark crag
That comment made me think you had to be in assa lootspec @rancid bobcat
rancid bobcat
just coincidence
dark crag
i just wanted to say that i opened the first azerite shoulder as assa this season
mental trout
Yea, so I just have bad luck 😂
dark crag
you are not blessed enough indeed
pure moth
I was unlucky. I saved 20k to buy it specifically. Rng is never in my favor
dark crag
tomorrow i spend 35k echoes on expedient r3. that will be fun
maybe only 30, can't get rid of 1 ta
strange python
u guys sim patchwerk 3min?
scarlet sequoia
1½