PP major is nice if you struggle with trash but blood makes you kill bosses faster
#assassination
polar cape
royal lantern
Big PP major
vast forum
pp major isn't better than blood in any situation
you want breath if you struggle with trash
blood if you wanna make bosses safer
mighty elm
i never used anything but bote, but breath cant be stronger than pp or iris if you wanna clear packs fast?, just pull whole room and pp it
shut garnet
breath is theoretically more overall
but yeah i agree, if in some instance you wanted the trash to be NUKED you'd probably stick to bote or, for whatever reason, take iris
though i dont think in a 20 man raid it's the assassination rogues' job to take an add-nuke essence
mighty elm
are we not talking visions?
strange python
Raid? wasnt he asking about vision
main forge
ETlol was asking about PP for Visions 5 mask
main forge
Breath, Blood, Iris are good for visions as major.
vast forum
blood is best if you do big pulls or wanna make bosses safer
breath is best for small pulls where you just 1-shot mobs 1 at a time
mighty elm
just run pp and pull whole room 
vast forum
why would pp be better than blood there?
mighty elm
my blood never killed a mob in a vision ^^
vast forum
no but it caused your other abilities to kill them 
mighty elm
ive never pressed anything but garrote in vsions
main forge
Memory, PP, and Breath are good for minors for me for visions, gives solid healing.(the thing I feel like I struggle with)
foggy beacon
I just resubbed from end of legion, the guide says "shrouded suffocation for toxic blade" but for me it's about garrote, what am I missing?
shy axle
having trouble on first boss workshop, how do you handle his flame-spitting with your cd`s? any tipps?
I am trying to stand behind him and running away if he follows me
plain thistle
yeah, vial to help healer and cloak if he really needs it
or he calls you to use
I usually feint it as well, not sure if it works
if you go to https://justhealus.com/ feint works for Vent Jets (the flame thing)
plain thistle
np 🙂
nothing more you can do, healers need to heal heheh
dont forget about health pots!
shy axle
yeah got everything ready, lets see how it works
it obilerated us on ws21 last week, thought I might oversee some mechanic
vast forum
https://gyazo.com/8ec303b0678ba89fe646783caf32dd02 any full haste gamers in junkyard? 😄
strange python
o.O
plain thistle
yeah, I go full haste there too
but my dps wasnt that high 😦
did 165k if I remember correctly, 28% damage from zap (but I lost my zap at one point)
found it, junk 24
vast forum
i ran 67 corruption (8x exp3, 1x exp2), vita, galecaller, 3ss + 3 hod (not bbi cuz zap can't crit)
i could probably modify my gear a bit to do even more
vast forum
i trust in my healer and i trust in myself dodging shit 😄
wet ruin
what is that 6th person 
vast forum
it's a pet showing in a weird way
wet ruin
frost mage?
wet ruin
wut, what pet
balmy condor
The hunter
wet ruin
usually its 70-80% of hunters damage 😄
wet ruin
wait, is that skada
balmy condor
Happens to me as well
vast forum
@wet ruin don't judge me, i've had it for years and never bothered installing details
no bully plz
balmy condor
wet ruin
yea, I was using skada for a long time as well
but details is just superior in every way 😄
neon siren
how you finding the build outside of JY yoppa?
vast forum
i run full haste in every dungeon
i don't think the severe/strikethrough is the way to go
but i have a hard time convincing people 😄
neon siren
you can convince me
wet ruin
Im on that train as well
vast forum
full haste does less overall dps but does more relevant dps
you DESTROY bosses so that your hunter and mage don't waste time on single target and you leave the aoe to them
while also doing decent aoe yourself
not on EB level but still decent
also, this season, it's not only bosses, you have obelisk mobs too
so you have on average 8 full single target pulls in the dungeon that you BLAST on
sometimes more depending on dungeon
wet ruin
there is really only one EB supporter, but from what I am seeing he might be turning 😄
vast forum
i mean, top assa rio score guy uses 3 EB in fuckin workshop
balmy condor
The runs 2
vast forum
guy's not very smart, just plays well probably
balmy condor
And TTK
vast forum
ttk is straight garbage tho
balmy condor
?
wet ruin
top players usually don't play the optimal things
vast forum
SS and hod will both provide you with more single target and aoe than ttk
there are only 4 actual good traits
ss
hod
bbi
and EB (if you believe in aoe assa rogue)
balmy condor
Not with a crit build it won’t
balmy condor
vast forum
and HoD buffs all your stats, so it buffs all your abilities, not just the one that doesn't do aoe
link me 1 sim
any target count
where TTK outperforms HOD plz
balmy condor
Well fuck me then I guess
vast forum
literally ANYTHING
balmy condor
Top rogues have no fucking clue what they’re doing
wet ruin
top rogues actually have no clue what they're doing
vast forum
also, top assa rogue is just
wet ruin
in terms of gearing
vast forum
a random guy
because there aren't any actual good players playing assa in high keys
and by good i mean like
actual pumpers
seli hasn't been pushing score
none of the historically good m+ assa rogues are playing atm
so you are left with this random 5.5k score guy
who seems like "the top assa rogue"
but if any of the top players just wanted to get 6k as assa, it would be a joke for them
and i'll tell you 1 thing, no1 would run 3x EB in workshop like he did
man runs crit build in junkyard
3EB in tos as well
fuck sake he even ran 2 EB in KR
man's actually inting his team
wet ruin
are you looking this in raider io
vast forum
yea
wet ruin
its not always accurate
wet ruin
nope
vast forum
regardless
warm parcel
it snaps your armory
vast forum
he has 0 runs without at least 2x EB
warm parcel
which is based on last logout
wet ruin
there are runs that had me recorded with sub talents, outlaw traits and assa corruptions
vast forum
yea some runs
but this is all runs
legit everything this guy does is 3ss 2+ EB and maybe 1 ttk or hod
vast forum
i guess rio is bugged then 😛
balmy condor
But he’s using 3x EB
At some point
And that’s a crit build
And he’s logged out with a bunch of strikethrough atm
wet ruin
still doesn't make it better
vast forum
i mean, i'm willing to run the same dungeon 2 times with the same team with 2 different builds
balmy condor
? Y’all literally out here like “oh Ryfie is some nobody, seliathan good rogue”
vast forum
well if he doesn't have, it's a different story
balmy condor
And then seliathan runs the same shit and you’re like “ah but you see, he’s not optimal”
wet ruin
I mean, its the same as saying
top log on this boss has tentacles, so its the most optimal
balmy condor
Well then all of his keys are bugged
vast forum
@marble hemlock sorry for ping, we need an opinion if you're free 😄
balmy condor
I get that the haste build can be good, and you have the option of running it in WS and tyran and whatever
But running it all the time? That’s just not what any top rogue does
vast forum
but there are no top rogues running high keys
wet ruin
again, why would you think the top rogues play the best thing
vast forum
also i didn't say ALL the time 😄
balmy condor
Is this a fever dream
vast forum
i would go EB in a few keys but i cba socketing my crit gear
i mean, whispyr, what do you define as top rogue?
top 1? top 3? top 20?
balmy condor
Sure, we can even go like top 100 if that suits your fancy probably
balmy condor
Like top 50
balmy condor
Pretty sick, defy the meta
vast forum
0 crit build dungeons
balmy condor
Good for you
vast forum
there is no meta
assa rogue isn't meta in m+
there are no gingi or frag or yoda or shakib playing assa rogue in +27s and +28s
so you have off-meta players playing the way they believe the game should be played
vital haven
i mean ye obv
lost horizon
is #18 even 4k for sin?
vast forum
it's >4.5k
vital haven
meta cannot get developed by only one guy
nobody be hating on ryfie
mans a national trreasure
wet ruin
can I mention that I've seen gingi not reroll at all
vast forum
i'm just saying, i don't consider myself a top player overall but none of the top players are playing assa
yea that too
top players are usually just VERY good at dungeon mechanics
like strats, interrupts, cc
wet ruin
so them being the highest io doesn't mean they are good players
vast forum
i don't mean "just" very good
but there have been EXTREMELY questionable plays by top players on specs they don't main
wet ruin
let me rephrase, they are obviously good at the game, it doesn't mean they play optimally
warm parcel
not a single player does
lost horizon
^
vast forum
no1 plays optimally, ye
lost horizon
and tbf sometimes you have to make shitty calls
vast forum
but some people actively play suboptimally
lost horizon
like hard rolling TB as outlaw to get vanish resets on eudora 
vast forum
it's 1 thing to forget to reroll
wet ruin
by optimally I don't mean perfectly
vast forum
another thing to not reroll because you think you shouldn't reroll
so if gingi didn't reroll at all in aoe, as a part of his own decision, rather than a mistake in the moment, he definitely didn't play optimally
plain thistle
what i like about haste build is the single target and cleave damage, I undestand the point of crit/strike with 3 EB, but if I am doing less damage than a outlaw on single target whats the point of playing assa?
lost horizon
whats the point of playing assa?
vast forum
just play outlaw
lost horizon
could've left it there tbh
vast forum
i think assa has higher value than outlaw in some keys
like, not overall dps wise
but the valuable dps
lost horizon
i used to think so too
vast forum
if you think outlaw is better than assa in workshop, you're actually inting
lost horizon
but now i only play it for zone-out last bosses 
polar cape
I just grab my raid set up for workshop
vast forum
raid setup for workshop/kr/tos always
also an example
outlaw might do more overall dps in an UR
but blowing up kragmaw before he can do 2nd tantrum
with like 130k ST dps
is something that outlaw can never do
and it can save you the key
vast forum
depends on key lvl
lost horizon
i don't mean difficulty, i mean skipping a tantrum doesn't save you as much time as
skipping a jump on siege 2nd boss for example
vast forum
yea
vast forum
but it can save you 3 deaths 😄
lost horizon
lost horizon
you're gonna get multiple tantrums no matter how hard you blast
your healer preps, you prep with CDs, you have to live a couple no matter what
plain thistle
vast forum
i mean, we did it with 1 on a +24
lost horizon
too small
vast forum
i'll run it in the first 25 UR that i get
and the 26
because fuck outlaw
also, i love bolstering weeks because ppl don't chainpull 🙂
restealths for days
lost horizon
i'd bet triple fire mage can't kill crag before 2nd tantrum in 28 tbh
lost horizon
ok, i'd bet triple sin rogue can't kill crag before 2nd tantrum in 28
vast forum
but yea, in 28 it won't be possible
nah but if you play outlaw, you'll get a 3rd one 🙂
lost horizon
you have to prepped for multiple though
lost horizon
the argument that playing sin to save you ~30sec on one boss is worth for the whole instance is pretty iffy
you play what you like
willow pulsar
Tantrum is not a hardphase? What is then
lost horizon
but don't try to justify it saving you time
vast forum
because all the aoe pulls are handled by a BM/firemage
lost horizon
a 'strict' phase is a better term @willow pulsar
vast forum
and ofc, i do my part but not as much as i would as outlaw
lost horizon
like siege 2nd boss going back to boat
vast forum
i still think the time saved from blasting ST is much bigger than people think
with 4 obelisk mobs (or 3 if you do 1 with last boss) + 4-5 bosses in a dungeon
and maybe a miniboss or 2
like shadow of zul
fallen sandal
St is approx 30% of dungeon time
lost horizon
varies heavily on the dungeon/affixes
vast forum
that's why you have 2 aoe blasters in bm and fire 😄
vast forum
what level tyra? 🙂
fallen sandal
25-26
vast forum
are you talking bosses only or obelisks too
lost horizon
tyrannical 
vast forum
or zul too
fallen sandal
All St
vast forum
or big guys that don't get killed by artillery in siege?
how do you calculate that? 🙂
i bet the variance on that is like 50% 😄
lost horizon
sin is great for last boss siege
fallen sandal
It's not my statement btw, it's from Lapi
vast forum
is it weird that i don't even know who lapi is?
fallen sandal
French streamer
vast forum
ah
fallen sandal
Top 20 World Guild Rl
vast forum
his word must be gospel then
fallen sandal
5k5 rio
vast forum
i'd rather say it's 20-40% than just a strict 30% but ok
it varies heavily per dungeon
balmy condor
Don’t bother Sven, top players don’t play optimally, and they don’t know what they’re doing, but this guy on discord does
Trust
vast forum
i didn't say i play optimally
i said that single target is extremely underrated this season
balmy condor
Sure
vast forum
and i've played both builds, and even though i might sometimes do more overall with EB build, it just makes me wonder why i'm not playing outlaw
balmy condor
And that’s fine
lost horizon
but there's just too much you lose from not having vanish ready to go
vast forum
the fact that outlaw stacks vers is SO HUGE for surviving high keys
fallen sandal
I think you can Time any 25 Key with any comp as long as you play good
vast forum
i doubt that
lost horizon
you only play enough vers to survive particular mechanics, unless you're just scared of overall damage
3x afflock +25
plain thistle
vast forum
warlock frostmage subrogue KR25 tyrannical
balmy condor
If only there was a sin build in keys that has a decent amount of vers am I right
vast forum
once again, squawk, i disagree with every sin build being worse than outlaw in every situation 😄
lost horizon
every situation, no absolutely
overall? unfortunately it just doesn't compare when you're trying to push hard
vast forum
but i don't think EB assa is better than outlaw in any situation ever
that's my point
balmy condor
I mean yes, there is a reason why outlaw runs higher keys, it’s definitely a little stronger overall
But that doesn’t mean EB is wrong as sin
vast forum
i never said it's wrong
balmy condor
Nahfjeowvcjelabsgewkka
fallen sandal
If packs last too long and garrote fade then > outlaw
balmy condor
Don’t make me scroll homeboy
fallen sandal
Or if packs are 4+
vast forum
you have vanish for those @fallen sandal
also, assa does reasonable aoe with just crimson tempest
fallen sandal
Once Every 2
fallen sandal
Yes
balmy condor
i don't think the severe/strikethrough is the way to go
Is this not the same as EB is wrong?
If you’re going an EB build, you’re going severe/strikes
balmy condor
But no one plays optimally anyway and turns out everyone doesn’t have a clue
vast forum
no1 knows what's optimal
i don't know what's optimal
that's why i said THINK
i still don't THINK that EB is the way to go
i could be wrong but from personal experience, playing both builds
balmy condor
And you got a ton of other rogues who THINK that EB is the way to go
vast forum
if you're not hardstuck on looking at the overall dmg meter
lost horizon
tbf for sin
vast forum
you see dungeons being safer and faster when you blast priority targets
lost horizon
there's no 'masses' to stick to
balmy condor
Nothing wrong with it
vast forum
there are no masses tho
there are 0 pro players playing sin
i mean, they played sin in a TD in MDI yday
balmy condor
Aight we gonna do semantics I guess
balmy condor
I’ll revise my statement for you hold on
vast forum
i don't think i'm better than him
fallen sandal
I Guess you Can play what you want, eb not eb, haste / crit at the end it doesnt change much
lost horizon
^
vast forum
it's like saying that the current highest rio shadowpriest in m+ is definitely the best m+ shadowpriest out there
vast forum
well no
lost horizon
LOL
vast forum
i gave random spec
lost horizon
you picked the wrong one my man
balmy condor
I will stick with the pre-conceived and current main theory of EB that a lot of the small community is running
vast forum
highest rio surv hunter
balmy condor
Does that clear it up
vast forum
i bet if surv became meta for MDI or pushing high keys
the current #1 surv would drop to #50 world
which is the point here for assa too
because no1 cares about assa atm
at least no top players do
you can't develop a meta
either way
balmy condor
You don’t need gingi and frag playing sin rogue to know what’s good or not on sin rogue
You clearly have ideas on what you think is best without it being meta
wet ruin
why would you think they would know
vast forum
thing is, no matter what, you can't prove either side right or wrong without the exact same player playing both builds just as well, with the same team in the same dungeon with the same route
balmy condor
Because this whole fucking argument has been “haste good build” and me going “yeah sometimes but EB generally is the go to, that’s what you’ll see people running”, which is then followed by “yeah but there’s no good sin rogues, check X Y Z, they’re good sin rogues”
And then we eventually finish at “oh those good sin rogues don’t know either”
So wtf
vast forum
i didn't say check x y z
i said seli would probably not run EB in workshop 🙂
especially if he had the choice of azerite
fallen sandal
No one knows at the end
vast forum
although at this point i'm not even sure if that #1 guy ran EB in workshop
but rio says he did and i cba asking him
vast forum
oh
then he's inting 🙂
there's legit 2 pulls with more than 3 mobs in workshop
especially on bolstering where you can't even argue about pulling the oozes before 2nd boss with all the big mobs
vast forum
enjoy it
balmy condor
Thanks
wet ruin
its legit like the 34% thing
vital haven
is eb and haste build gonna become the blood,focusing iris,breath major discuission like the outlaw channel
wet ruin
it already is
lean dew
how much base haste do i need for the bleed build to even become viable?
vast forum
when it starts simming better
marble hemlock
i got pinged
sup?
3eb in workshop is inting
its not super terrible, but i usually run 3ss 2hod 1bbi in workshop
esp since hod gives vers and you need every bit of survivability to survive last boss on highkeys
balmy condor
What are your thoughts on crit/eb vs just full sending haste
willow pulsar
Dude please, not again xD
balmy condor
Wdym not again, I’m trying to learn from rogues that are better than me
marble hemlock
well, i talked about a fully hasted/expedient gearset with maybe 1 TD and then running 3ss 2hod 1bbi or 3ss 2clockwork 1hod
i never had the chance to try it out
but i wouldnt be surprised if it can be somewhat competitive to a full crit/vers eb build on aoe, maybe ~20% worse
and itll be quite a lot better on st
and prio
lean marten
don't u run eb/crit on aoe dungys and haste on cleave dungys
balmy condor
That’s the general consensus
But we’ve had a discussion where haste even in aoe dungeons was the idea
And it got pretty heated, mostly cause I got tilted tbh
And I don’t think it’s bad by any means
marble hemlock
i talked about it plenty of times when i was still playing more actively
i dont see a full crit/haste expedient setup, with maybe 1 TD sprinkled in, with DS+CT and 3ss/hod/bbi as bad at all
its not gonna be huge aoe, youll definitely be lacking behind other classes, but its not bad by any means
the biggest issue with that setup would be in super high keys, where survivability on bosses is actually an issue. anything thats not feintable reliably, will kill you if you run a 0 vers setup
thats where i personally see the crit/vers eb build become a bit more valuable again, even just 10% vers dmg mitigation are quite significant
vast forum
i just watched the 26 workshop vod
i have to say, EB is inting
the guy does 70-80k ST dps
marble hemlock
but frankly, i havent followed the m+ highkey scene in a while since im taking some time off wow to focus on more important things
theres really just one thing to keep in mind - just copypasting something the highend players do isnt always the best choice. ive been the go-to assa m+ guy for such a long time and i still had a lot of doubts about any of my choices i was making in keys, and i assure you not all of them were the best way to go at things
marble hemlock
and plenty of changes i made to my setup or my gearing process, or general approach to playing highkeys, wasnt because i theorycrafted something to be better, but because people were suggesting stuff and i tried it when it made sense
i.e. me running 2ttk+tb in s2 after an entire season of ss+exsang in s1, wasnt me realizing its better, someone suggested i try it and i realized it was really damn good 😄
vast forum
it did good pretending to be a sub rogue with reaping mobs on top of bosses
marble hemlock
yeah exactly
balmy condor
Yeah honestly that’s part of what I love about m+ is that it’s not simmed to optimal build, optimal gameplay
marble hemlock
and this season for example, it was @lethal heart who started playing around more with bote+exsang for m+ singletarget again and i just added on top of that idea to what i eventually played as a build
balmy condor
There’s the choice of people still figuring it out
vast forum
i just don't think envenom damage is as relevant anymore, and with awakened as seasonal affix, there's more ST than ever to be done
once again, i THINK the raid build is better than EB build
emphasis on think 🙂
balmy condor
Yeah that’s fine
marble hemlock
it always comes down to comp, gameplay etc.
marble hemlock
the raid build will smack on singletarget and generals, which is one of the reasons I think its better
vast forum
raidbuild outperforms EB on 3 targets too i think
marble hemlock
and while i dont know if its true or not (as i said, i dont follow highkeys at all anymore) but the one significant weakness the crit/eb build has, is that pulling last boss with 1 general is awful in that build
and it easily loses you like 30sec just because your dps is godawful on 2target fights
meanwhile the 3ss/hod/haste build would absolutely smack there
balmy condor
Yeah I guess so
marble hemlock
so yeah, take everything beign said or that you see with a grain of salt, and think about why people decide to do what they do, and then figure out if that same statement holds true for the situation youre in
vast forum
doing 100k ST without lust and 120k with lust on bosses actually makes dungeons much faster imo
balmy condor
Yeah tyran keys for sure
vast forum
also, once again, sorry for the ping, seli, but needed an expert's opinion 😄
balmy condor
Boss damage kinda huge
balmy condor
Yeah
marble hemlock
always happy to help, but i honestly wouldnt call myself an expert in highkey m+ stuff anymore
vast forum
eh
marble hemlock
its been months since i played anything resembling a highkey
vast forum
you don't forget those things
marble hemlock
yeah sure, but i dont keep up on routing development or general dps compositions
vast forum
true
marble hemlock
but its doing me good to have stayed out of the scene for a while now, it takes its toll, so yeah
ill make a return before shadowlands comes. maybe. :p
vast forum
but with a minute combust fire mage and a BM hunter doing aoe i think ST is the way to go 😄
marble hemlock
and then we'll show the remaining outlaws how its done by a real spec!
balmy condor
I can get behind that xD
vast forum
@lethal heart it was seli, your old retired friend
lethal heart
im dh main
balmy condor
Sorry for tilting earlier btw yoppa
lethal heart
📈
balmy condor
Yeah for sure
lethal heart
@marble hemlock
vast forum
it's just i've seen you give out advice to a lot of ppl about EB/crit
and i don't think it's right
but i don't wanna argue much about it 😄
it's definitely not wrong
balmy condor
I suggest haste for WS and if people don’t want to make a second set
vast forum
it's just not the one-size-fits-all thing
balmy condor
That kinda stuff
Yeah definitely
I think having the option is definitely better than not having it
vast forum
definitely
i plan on doing a few keys with crit/EB once i have more sockets in that gear just to see how well it performs in aoe keys, but all of my groups really appreciate the ST that i bring as assa
balmy condor
Yeah the ST pump potential is huge
vast forum
but going anything other than haste in junkyard is inting 😄
balmy condor
Workshop*
vast forum
junkyard*
balmy condor
*both
harsh sphinx
it's pretty fun in freehold etc 🙂 haste in ws/kr/siege for me
vast forum
zap scales with haste and can't crit 😄
marble hemlock
well, keep in mind that assa isnt a "one setup" kind of spec
vast forum
i personally disagree but i could be wrong 😄
i think that the raidbuild is just better this season
marble hemlock
we have the flexibility to swap gearsets based on whether we wanna focus a bit more on aoe or st or cleave, and we need to make use of that to even have a chance of competing with the "spec and forget" fotm classes
balmy condor
If it were a 1 build spec, this whole discussion wouldn’t exist tbh
vast forum
assuming you're playing with a BM and firemage, which is the meta atm *
marble hemlock
and it comes down to everyone individually what they choose to play in each dungeon. what might be best for you in your grp, might not be best for someone else. all we can do is make sure everyone is aware of the different builds, where theyre used, and educating people about what the reasoning is behind choosing build1 or 2 or 3
and then people can look at the grp they play with, the keylevel, the dungeon, the affixes, and make informed decisions about what to play
most classes dont have the freedom and flexibility, its "stack this or that and go ham"
thats why assa is fun, and mage/dh/bm is not
vast forum
the assa icon 😄
balmy condor
vast forum
come back before coruption is gone so you can pamp 🙂
marble hemlock
but for now, wow is taking a back-burner and im better for it, so youll ahve to make due without me. plenty of other good and better rogues out there anyway ^^
marble hemlock
meh, id have to do a lot of catching up in terms of grinding out like 10 expedients, sockets for 2-3 gearsets etc.
willow pulsar
Nah, launch of shadowlands will be worse
marble hemlock
unless i find the motivation to do that somehow, i dont see a point of returning right now
vast forum
you only need 1 gearset, trust
willow pulsar
With like barely 20%
marble hemlock
just logging into wow is triggering some things id rather get away from atm
balmy condor
I have no idea how prepatch/launch is gonna be
vast forum
i get most of my echoes from doing m+ which is content i'd do anyway
balmy condor
A nightmare in the making
marble hemlock
so im not gonna stress it
maybe this season im just not meant to slam
a shame to not get a single #1 the entire expac, but i was close enough on an off-meta spec twice, so im not too annoyed about it :p
and bfa isnt an expansion that just rewards skill anyway, rewards time spent most of all
play 16h/day in a pushweek and youll find more success than a "better" grp that only plays 8
vast forum
unfortunately true
i wish they would just allow you to keep the key after failing it and restarting it
rather than it going -1
so you can keep trying until you succeed 😄
marble hemlock
anyway, thanks for the discussion boys and girls, gonna ping sebbe one more time for good measure @lethal heart stop finding exalts and headhunters 
nah yoppa
we had that early legion
and it was absolutely dumb
empty ravine
only thing thats competitive is trying to max out dps on sims, just like how overclockers with certain cpus do it
marble hemlock
people resetting key at the slightest mistake until they did a perfect run, spending 10+hrs in a single key
vast forum
hmm true
marble hemlock
thats how meowchan played keys back in the day, just resetting 50times a day until they had the perfect run
vast forum
but i hate losing keys to single mistakes and then having to re-farm them 😦
actually
i want TR all-year-round
marble hemlock
its part of the equation though, and its important to have some downtime between the really big keys
if you had the high-iq gigakeys with potential worldfirst runs every singel dungeon, it would be too stressful
you need to be able to do a few 26s/27s here or there to chill out
vast forum
monkaW
marble hemlock
between pushing 28s/29s
thats how it was in legion, and thats how it should be in bfa. i dont know if thats the case
vast forum
i have to do a 26 or 27 first to get there 😄
LF people for 27 FH 😄
only ST assa rogues allowed
marble hemlock
i only remember legion, and it was very enjoyable to do a few toptier keys and fail and improve, and then go back to the drawing board and 2-chest a few 25s or 26s instead
if it was 10+hrs of pressure, it would be hell
wet ruin
@vast forum are there even people playing alliance 😄
marble hemlock
needs to be fun, at least for me. if you only play for score or rank and tilt or get upset about depleting keys and dont take enjoyment out of playing a few low~ish non-upgrade keys with friends, then you're playing for the wrong reasons. just my 2cents.
empty ravine
i feel like i felt sin being more sought out after than outlaw in m+ for the higher keys for a while
vast forum
@wet ruin stop making fun of me 😡
i applied to a few horde guilds, people don't seem to like me
empty ravine
since st is pretty much what you are goinng to end up needing to even kill trash
vast forum
i'm either bad at writing apps or ppl don't like rogues
wet ruin
people think rogues are bad right now
marble hemlock
thats the main reason i stopped playing highkeys, really. i just didnt enjoy doing the somewhat lower keys to play up anymore. if something went wrong there, it just felt frustrating and demotivating. i dont wanna feel that way when i could spend my time doing something fun instead
marble hemlock
can always try to apply to us i guess
vast forum
i did!
marble hemlock
and replace @rigid mango
vast forum
last tier
marble hemlock
oh
empty ravine
any good guild would prob point you to a website to apply to\
vast forum
didn't even get a response
strange python
i guess method is recruiting
vast forum
cunts
marble hemlock
yeah we dont reply to people
vast forum
😡
vast forum
idk
empty ravine
is method gonna be donezo?
vast forum
idk why but i just don't feel good dming ppl about joining guilds...
i just write an app and wait for a response
empty ravine
honestly kinda happy i donnt have wow drama anymore
vast forum
method team is gonna make a new guild without sco
at least that's their plan as of right now
marble hemlock
theyll rebrand as "procedure" next expac or smth, idk
empty ravine
even for the highest of guilds it was only rewarding at times and drama when shit got tough
marble hemlock
with johnpriest and ocs
vast forum
@marble hemlock although atm i'm tryna get into hardcore raiding
marble hemlock
as the leaders
vast forum
so i'm looking into 5-7 day guilds
vast forum
but i'll dm you if i change my mind 🙂
empty ravine
i dont think even the best guilds are gonnna be 7 day guilds all the time
marble hemlock
were the guild thats happy about missing hall of fame by a single day and then killing the boss on wednesday on the second pull, cause it means we dont have to raid thursday+sunday
vast forum
i promise i'm not bad 🙂
empty ravine
maybe in legit push weeks
vast forum
i mean 7day during progress @empty ravine
i applied to future, but their website is buggy
empty ravine
ya i kinda miss that kinda thinng
crimson palm
@wet ruin horde scum >:
empty ravine
but i mean who honestly has the time to do 7 days a week normall
vast forum
👋
wet ruin
vast forum
i have all the time in the world for the next year
wet ruin
please don't go to future
vast forum
why?
wet ruin
they are shit
marble hemlock
7days a week is fine if its only for 3-4weeks max
wet ruin
raiding 7 days for that rank??
marble hemlock
you still raid less days in any given tier
empty ravine
i really do, but i cant see myself being reliable if it was required to be active 7 days a week at least while im workinng
marble hemlock
than a 4day guild does
vast forum
well i don't assume they reclear for 7 days 😄
marble hemlock
that takes months to clear
vast forum
that's my secret @empty ravine
empty ravine
ya
vast forum
i'm happily unemployed
marble hemlock
5-7days for 3weeks beats 4days for 2months any day
warm parcel
I mean future always been a joke
empty ravine
im unemployed myself actually
wet ruin
not talking about reclears, but if you raid 7 days, and I believe they are day raiding you should be higher
empty ravine
but i dont plan on being unemployed
vast forum
i think future is a good guild to get into hardcore raiding
empty ravine
half my issue honestly is that if i were to want to be getting into a top guild
vast forum
i mean i'd love a trial in pieces or method but i doubt i'd ever get that without going to a guild like future first 😄
wet ruin
they just got raz as well 😄
empty ravine
then id put too much of my time toward something id say "hey at least i got world first" and maybe a few kudos thatd last a bit of time
vast forum
gotta start somewhere and try to work up from there
can i make it into pieces/method? probably not, but it's worth trying 😄
empty ravine
ya funny ennough i pretty much learned how the whole job world works from trying to get into good guilds
gotta apply to them and make it look good or else you arent gonna have any knd of chance
wet ruin
method?, who that
warm parcel
applying for any of them is pointless
vast forum
can someone teach me to write apps ? 🙂
warm parcel
you get asked
empty ravine
and in order to even look good you gotta have prev experience
diff is that there is no real bar to entry with WoW while in corporate world you cant just start anywhere without them know you are gonna be costing money in the beg to train and stuf
and just like in the corporate world only the real go getters are the ones that build their way up to a top position, most of the time its who you know that gets you in
which kinda sux imo
unless you were born into knowing the right ppl
warm parcel
it has nothing to do with being born
it has to do with you being good enough that people notice you
empty ravine
your right life isnt part of it
warm parcel
and people know you
empty ravine
lolz
"how do you kill that which has no life"
honestly you get noticed if the game was all about solo content, which you can do in certain games, but in WoW you gotta be good and find good ppl to get noticed
pseudo hamlet
M+: HC Torment, HC Vita or Mythic Wrathion Scale (along with 475 dead-eye)?
empty ravine
pretty much, but in the end you can only be so good at wow
empty ravine
all the good guilds just waitlist you til a spot frees up unless you know you start the guild which requires knowing ppl
strange python
isnt cur gone soon?
empty ravine
ya and thats part of why i stopped caring about being the top in a guild, theres gonna be somene can prob do what you already offer
empty ravine
ya i do too
but it just takes time unless you already in the clique of groups that are doing well
sometimes i found myself almost screaming into a void
empty ravine
and the big bois talking shit about the shitters
balmy condor
its like that at any high end tbh
empty ravine
i was in the clique early in wow but then i got a real life
balmy condor
like any high end of any game or any sport
warm parcel
Yea it does translate to real world too
empty ravine
yup
warm parcel
A lot of aspects are similar in wow as they are irl
empty ravine
ya like i said its almost a mirror of the high end corporate world
diff is that one of those is sustainable
warm parcel
Thats why Im kinda curious if therell be more org interest when it comes to wow
We now have a few
But still far from other games
empty ravine
there will always be interest
empty ravine
well i mean wow is a older game
only cs go really is a game that the competitive scene is still there
wet ruin
when the devs don't care about the game, why would corps do 😄
empty ravine
and sc2
but ya if you look at wow compared to csgo and sc then wow is deff losing that battle for innterest in competitive scene
patent topaz
sc2 
warm parcel
I wouldnt say losing
empty ravine
sc2 in korea
warm parcel
Cause it hasnt had any since 2010
empty ravine
tell me it aint popular there
warm parcel
Its just now picking up org interest again
empty ravine
i think, thats just people being hopeful
we will see
i have hope myself
but who knows
warm parcel
It aint hope. Literally we now have 4 orgs tied to guilds on top
wet ruin
It is because of world first, cuz it was never streamed before
warm parcel
Whereas some years age there were 0
And back when there actually was, was back in wrath arena days
But that ended in season 8 or what ever it was
empty ravine
well competitive gaming didnt have orgs really 10+ years ago
warm parcel
I mean theres literally MLG tourneys from that era
And teams had orgs behind them
But since then there hasnt been any orgs involved before complexity picking up limit
empty ravine
the biggest orgs i think started back in sc and cs
warm parcel
And if you count method becoming one past xpac
warm parcel
no my dude
pine pasture
No lol
warm parcel
method has literally always been a wowguild
empty ravine
im thinking of tsm for some reason
warm parcel
that became an org in past few years
warm parcel
I know it is
empty ravine
benefit with trying to start an org in wow tho is that its tied to blizzard
so easier to get sponsors
warm parcel
Thats why Im kinda interested in these smaller orgs picking up guilds
quartz depot
there is no benefit to starting an org in wow
lethal heart
@marble hemlock
warm parcel
And even G2 voicing some on twitter
empty ravine
lucky you
strange python
pine pasture
Ocelote has been messaging some people from old Method hasn't he?
empty ravine
LOL that name
vast forum
@lethal heart i hate you
warm parcel
Also imagine not having 475 mecha rings 
patent topaz
I got the division ring
pine pasture
I can't even connect
empty ravine
i got one ring and another one thats 415 ilvl :c
patent topaz
sims 80 dps better than 465 from behind, fuck it
empty ravine
the diff between having an effect ring and not having one
just too high
well not that high to be fair but ya
patent topaz
the set is like 2k
empty ravine
why cant the trinket set from raden be like bis :c
warm parcel
- stats you lose from having the set
fleet whale
cause void has that dumb shield tied to it
patent topaz
I simmed the combo compared to my rings and it was 1900, whatevr
empty ravine
ya i know
warm parcel
Well your rings sure
empty ravine
blizz devs just trolling ppl
warm parcel
Versus the best other you could have? Maybe past 1k
rancid bobcat
stole my rings
vast forum
i just want a 475 galecaller 😦
rancid bobcat
i remember a hunter in my guild on reset day say he needed dice
vast forum
with 2 475 cannonball runners
vast forum
i do that every week
rancid bobcat
maybe only hunters
wet ruin
this happened to me, but I needed a bike for pvp, and got 475 the next day 😄
main forge
wait til the next expansion
balmy condor
cry
steep plover
How hard is it to gear for outlaw? I wanna try it out but u reckon i could use severe/strike build or make another set? Or is this better to ask in outlaw channel
fallen sandal
You need raden weapons i Guess
steep plover
I have 1 rn lmao
fallen sandal
Full vers Crit on gear
steep plover
So is it similar to the severe/strike build?
steep plover
Except not daggera
steep plover
Aight sweet i want to give it a go to see how it is in m+
warm fulcrum
balmy condor
get out
steep plover
Ill give the outlaw channel a snoop see what the pins say
quasi pewter
strange python
sooo 😄
strange python
people say double does is the way to go ?! xD
patent topaz
your gear is so low there inst really any point in drawing conclusions
what sims the best is the best for you
balmy condor
yeah
quasi pewter
your gear is from like beginning of patch
balmy condor
undergeared kinda whatever works
but you'll see shrouded pull ahead as you get more gear
steep plover
Rip i dont have good crit/vers gear only crit/mast which i use for sin
quasi pewter
with ur gear im kinda surpised shrouded sims better
strange python
i am working on my gear so 3 shroud best way ?
balmy condor
5 corruption with vers nav/force multi and a void titanshard
kinda big janky
so whatever sims highest
balmy condor
GL with that
quasi pewter
well
strange python
they said vers nav and force is way to go xD
balmy condor
you also don't want vers/force in pve
quasi pewter
but you should focus on gearing up
balmy condor
the whole point here is you got gear from 6 months ago
fossil slate
I'm not being dumb, but you do get taken out of stealth at the start of mythic nzoth yeah?
balmy condor
yes
patent topaz
no
quasi pewter
no
young portal
nope
young portal
you do in heroic, not mythic
patent topaz
in mythic tentacles spawn
balmy condor
you right
fossil slate
Is there a dmg tick right at the start with tentacles? Because something is definitely pulling me out
quasi pewter
you should have enough time to open
steep plover
At 20> keys is it really a big difference between sin and outlaw?
fossil slate
fairs
quasi pewter
idk when the aoe starts ticking but not right at the start
steep plover
I usually always run with a havoc dh and resto druid does that say anything?
fossil slate
@quasi pewter That's kind of what I was worried about re. running MA or Sub with SS. as I sim better with SS but felt like I was totally missing my window of the sub buffed garrotes
green forge
hi guys, do you have any idea to sim higher ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nipNNzCeq3w9hd2dcX23yr
balmy condor
that doesn't do much sadly starboy
quasi pewter
@fossil slate are you letting urself get knocked by the tentacle as they spawn?
other than that idk what could pull you out of stealth
idk if that does even
balmy condor
@green forge you're pretty optimized not sure if there's much you can do, probably some gem stuff
but uh
you're not gonna see much
haste on a slot maybe
but its minor stuff
fossil slate
@fossil slate are you letting urself get knocked by the tentacle as they spawn?
@quasi pewter
One time I did haha maybe I'm just worrying for nothing
green forge
oh I simed with pvp gems, kappa
actually top gear told me to keep versa & crit gems on both daggers (so I just fucked up the one on raden trinket that used to be haste gem)
main forge
Holy hell, thats near perfect gear.
green forge
no mythic shard offhand
@balmy condor
struggled so much to get the first one tbh
main forge
475 dungeon gear isn't hard work sadly just RNG. The 475 ring is sweet.
rancid bobcat
drop the gushing for another expedient
main forge
weekly chest needs to give you 475 pants
balmy condor
I think the gushing belongs
green forge
the 475 ring is rng, can't deny that
balmy condor
gushing > exped2 in this case I'm pretty sure
rancid bobcat
green forge
gushing > exped2 in this case I'm pretty sure
@balmy condor
swaped from 8x Exp 3 to this setup (7x Exp3 + 1 Exp1 + 1 GW)
haste was falling according to my stats weight
green forge
really ?
balmy condor
they swing wildly back and forth
its near useless info
@rancid bobcat aight
margin of error
you win I guess
naive lynx
aren't we supposed to use Exsanguate the closest to the bleeds as possible?
rancid bobcat
a regem would probably push it higher too
green forge
you win I guess
@balmy condor
Actually I disagree, coz if I swapped back with another Exp2 it would change gems setup
vital haven
let the record state i dont believe in that opener
green forge
and it would balanced that +22
balmy condor
I can regem your entire setup in gear compare if you'd like
it is indeed minor
but it's a minor gain
green forge
aren't we supposed to use Exsanguate the closest to the bleeds as possible?
@naive lynx
that's the opener if you get 5 CP after vendeta
in case you got 6CB you just refresh rupture & exsang right after it
vital haven
idk im always like
what if you get unlucky and none of your muts crit and you have to mut three times
green forge
actually