green basalt
got the combo on my druid 475 with sockets
#assassination
rotund ether
Is it worth going a single haste proc at any point in expediant stacking or do you just keep on stacking that shit up?
balmy condor
after 7x exped 3 and 1x exped 2
the current idea is either honed mind 3 or racing pulse 3
rotund ether
Thats fair
wet ruin
does anyone have a dlice sim of severe/strikethrough build
versed flint
Hey guys, I heard there were some questions about the guide I posted up yesterday.
balmy condor
mainly just why you randomly toss in a 50% softcap on crit and why you decided 3x fok into finisher
versed flint
That's just due to echoing blade proc rate. Since you require 5 critical strikes with fan of knives, on smaller packs (2-4 mobs) it allows you to utilize FoK over mutilates as mob size dwindles down. The 2-3 FoK into a finisher is just a general rotation. There is no sense in using anything else to build combo points when you are AoE'ign outside of FoK, and to keep your Elaborate Planning talent up 100% of the time, you have roughly 3 globals between finisher uses.
balmy condor
you don't need the crit to make fok worth using on small packs though
I get the general idea
I'm just wondering where you're getting the numbers from
versed flint
I find that at lower crit percentages, your small pack damage isn't as consistent. As for my numbers, it comes from just playing, talking to other assassination rogues, and damage meters. It's what works for me - the guide is meant to be a video to get newer players rolling on assassination in dungeons.
Crit also carries your single target damage on boss fights due to the Seal Fate passive.
Since you're foregoing haste, your energy regen and dot tick rate is pretty bad outside of lust and haste procs.
Critting with mutilates is a good way to make up those combo points that are lost due to insufficient energy generation for mutilate spam.
balmy condor
I understand how the build works perfectly fine
I was only curious if you had sources for the numbers you tossed out
that's all
versed flint
I hope that helped. Have a great day!
balmy condor
you too
drifting cloud
50% crit is the dumbest feelycraft ever
you could get 50% crit before corruptions existed
worldly condor
Ive read Raz's guide extensively, but does anyone have any tips for putting Crimson Tempest into the rotation once youve hit that amount of haste?
balmy condor
you just maintain CT
worldly condor
It just starts to feel so awkward
worldly condor
do i prio it over everything but Gar/Rup Exsang?
and you dont force CT for exsang?
balmy condor
you use it as a finisher after rupture
worldly condor
but use before envenom if its not up?
balmy condor
^
yes
if CT is not up, you cast CT
you can refresh in pandemic as well, just like gar/rup
so maintaining shouldn't be very difficult
scarlet sequoia
balmy condor
yeah but he was having trouble with it apparently
idk, I don't judge
if people need to talk through it in order to understand
then that's fine
worldly condor
okay, ill just keep trying until it feels right
yeah Ive read the guide I was just looking for any extra tips in the rotation. i guess it just doesnt feel right to me yet. Thank you for making such a great guide @scarlet sequoia
Sorry if that didnt come across right in the first message
frozen jasper
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/633gURCfpoXKfoZMBsyXPp
Opinions... think this build is worth going for? or is raidbots just trolling me? xD
frozen jasper
I mean for one it's telling me to go without vita, it's also getting rid of my heart of darkness traits too which is free haste not sure just seemed scuffed to me.
balmy condor
it doesn't count vita's party buff
clockwork is a good trait
vita commonly gets beat by stuff like that
475 harlans with a socket is really strong
opal minnow
clockwork is like 450 of each secondary every 1 minute. its strong af
balmy condor
ye
vast forum
my problem with clockwork is that it desyncs from your CDs because of vanish
tribal obsidian
So good on opener
worldly condor
is a 475 spyglass good with the exsang build? It keeps simming higher than my plumage(465)
worldly condor
I have a 475 Spyglass and 465 socketed galecallers that sims higher over Vita. Is it just not picking up the party buffs? Im kind of thinking Vita/Spyglass is my go to but not completely sure
balmy condor
the party buffs can't be simmed easily
so it doesn't count it
vita/gale should be the go-to usually
I don't think the 475 spyglass would outsim the gale
try locking the vita and seeing
worldly condor
okay! thank you 🙂
balmy condor
np
worldly condor
yeah i think vita galecallers is right then now! Thanks a bunch
eternal furnace
For raid do we take ct or poison bomb? And Vigor ?
balmy condor
yeah
for lower haste levels you'll have to go PB/vigor
later on with higher haste you'll switch to deeper strat with exsang
and then with even more, you'll see CT replace PB
shut garnet
65+ probably
eternal furnace
Okay thank you 🙂
And azerite traits for raiding is it 3x eb and 3x SS or that just for aoe?
silent crescent
EB does nothing on bosses you dont FoK on
eternal furnace
Okay ty
balmy condor
Exsang usually at around 30% haste
Ct at around 60% haste
vast forum
it's all about having 34% crit tho
eternal furnace
Can I go deeper strat with 30% haste?
sick oyster
sim it
balmy condor
Most likely not if you aren’t running exsang
If you have the pieces to run exsang, then maybe
balmy condor
but you say 30% haste so don't worry bout it
strange python
do not speak of the devil
strange python
this is a christian blood channel
umbral rapids
:(
shut garnet
how much do u sim whisp
balmy condor
covid kinda dunked on everything lul
shut garnet
114?
shut garnet
ur nairda right
balmy condor
yeah It like 'attainable bis' basically
so I use it to run hypothetical sims
easier for me to do that than gear compare on my character, put on a bunch of items, and then do it all
shut garnet
fair fair, makes sense
honest needle
whens best time to use bote
balmy condor
in 2020
eternal furnace
What would you drop lucid for ?
balmy condor
you would use bote during vendetta after TB
balmy condor
lucid usually drops for formless or blood minor if you're running clf
eternal furnace
Ty 🙂 very helpful as always
mental trout
wheres the best place to find rogue pov mythic raid vids?
balmy condor
twitch vods probably your best bet
could also just do logs if you're looking for something specifically
and not just pov
mental trout
is that a separate site then twitch? nah just want to get a better feel for what to expect
shut garnet
honest needle
is 3ss the way to go again for raid ?
balmy condor
yea
honest needle
ya fuck me. I dont have that at all and i dont have any expedient
all i have is dd and NP and ta corruption
so whith that what should i do
i BEEN doing outlaw for progression and m+ so i dont have assaiantion stuff
shut garnet
luckily for you sir
exp3 is on the vendor next wednesday
up til saturday
so best get farming
patent saddle
how much does expedient cost?
winged basin
its not tomorrow D:
balmy condor
5k
shut garnet
5000
balmy condor
for exped3
winged basin
I thought it was tomorrow :*(
balmy condor
also you can run DD
patent saddle
i just returned to wow this week, should I be holding off of buying gushing and save up for expedient? and should I bother running the build w/o the right corruption or essences?
balmy condor
its fine
patent saddle
so run CT instead of PB anyways then?
balmy condor
sim yourself
honest needle
thats what i was able to get
balmy condor
I'll take a look after this key
@patent saddle save for exped and PB until you get the haste
patent saddle
Cool cool ty
honest needle
@balmy condor u were talking about taking at look at my sim ?
balmy condor
yea
honest needle
i have so much gear i dont kno what to use
strange python
why do people play Golden plumage ?
honest needle
i wanna start deing som shit but when im playing outlaw its hard so i been saving everything
balmy condor
cause its strong on use burst
strange python
are these 10 Visa% strong ?
balmy condor
what?>
upper spear
trying to figure out what i can do for improvements other than just more expedient and higher gear from Mythic Nya
strange python
is crimson tempest only good at higher haste
balmy condor
for single target yes
strange python
what is the haste % you need for it to be viable @balmy condor
balmy condor
60ish
strange python
ok ty
random eagle
FYI i have 51.3% haste unbuffed and CT sims JUST higher than PB
like literally 0.1% diff lol
balmy condor
yeah
within margin of error
a lot earlier for you than what I usually see
some people don't get it till like 62, I couldn't run it till 64-65ish
but that's why I say 60ish right
wicked quartz
If vision of perfection is rppm and the dot scales also with haste I wonder if vop would be a good build with high haste
balmy condor
goes to show how janky everything is lmao
VoP is decent
but it just gets outshined
it can't do aoe
it's unreliable
it doesn't burst as hard
@upper spear yeah its all pretty minor, 465 mecha rings, another socket, mythic dagger, azerite, titanshard
winged basin
I am playing like shit today lmao rip two 5 masks and a 15 key 
upper spear
@balmy condor at a certain point i thought i saw people simming for 110k 5 min patch, maybe i was mistaken.
upper spear
ah, so theyre playing in suicide range
balmy condor
fr?
drifting cloud
yeah
drifting cloud
115k is up there
arctic walrus
drifting cloud
you need like 97 neck or higher
and correct race
or I guess this week you can equip 5 more corr
balmy condor
let me see if I can find one in my extensive history of clicking every raidbots link in this channel lmao
the nairda sims I keep using are low 112's
probably closer to 114 with current corruption
I guess maybe its possible
I don't have any that go that high under 60
arctic walrus
I’m only 111 with gale
drifting cloud
yeah like I said its basically cap, maybe I even overshot by like 2k
arctic walrus
92 neck gang
balmy condor
I think anything over 110 is basically it
unless you omega grind neck
and get 475 rng
drifting cloud
drifting cloud
94 neck and losing over 1k from race
balmy condor
yeah that looks like what I was expecting
balmy condor
you're late vel
arctic walrus
Oh my rings not enchanted hehe
upper spear
I see people running CLF vs Blood major, thoughts?
balmy condor
clf pog
steep plover
Is there a guide/recommended build for each boss in nya? Like with recomennded essences and shit? I saw one on the dh discord
balmy condor
yeah that too
upper spear
I guess longer kills CLF > Blood?
balmy condor
not really
drifting cloud
not necessarily longer its just really weird timings
balmy condor
yeah
drifting cloud
stuff like 3:30 clf would destory bote
even 4min
but if you go 4:40 its prolly really close
thats why people mostly play blood
balmy condor
its all about the time-syncs between bote and clf
like sub 3 min
hype
bote crushes
strange python
nah not for me
balmy condor
but less then 2:20, now CLF catches up
arctic walrus
Clf sims better for me at any time but 
strange python
same
drifting cloud
because its rounded up to the minute
balmy condor
variation probably
drifting cloud
check #tc-research tyra was talking about it with koyi
and yeah clf has that weird thing where the rock man sometimes doesnt wanna throw rocks
nimble trench
So, if I'm understanding this correctly Expedient 3 is BiS for every occasion, yes? Like, is there ever a point in using something other than Expedient 3? o.o
honest needle
@balmy condor u get a chance to check
upper spear
lol wtf ive never noticed that @drifting cloud
balmy condor
yeah hold on
drifting cloud
he sometimes does less hits than its supposed to do
drifting cloud
atleast according to sims
upper spear
hmmm
honest needle
also i have 30k residun what helm should i go for from vendor cause right now i have mythic maut helm i been using i alrdy have gorok tul shoulders and vex chest from mythic so from mythic plus vendor should i go for a specific helm ?
balmy condor
don't gamble helm
honest needle
o ok so ill keep maut helm use dd and just use ss on my other 2 pieces ?
balmy condor
I'm simming it
honest needle
and what should i be doing with my residum cause i have gorak tul shoulders and i beeen sitting on over 30k residumn
upper spear
i sitll use a 465 helm because of SS, dont think the Maut helm is really worth
honest needle
@balmy condor use my simc cause i have alot of gear in my bags u didint even see that i didint use but im sure alot of it is good
honest needle
@balmy condor with top gear will u be able to see all my other stuff in bags
honest needle
i dont have paid account so i cant click the other stuff
ok
@balmy condor also issue is alot of my stuff im using for outlaw, but i want a sin set for ST thats also good for m+
balmy condor
that doesn't exist
we need different azerite and stats for m+
if you had a bunch of exped, then maybe you can just 3x SS and send it in full cleave mode
that would work well
but you'd get slapped silly in higher fort keys
naive lynx
bis gear is basically the one with the most haste/crit? or?
i couldn't find any specification in the pins
naive lynx
okay thanks
fallen ivy
how does formless work? do i just use it on someone once and its good or do i have to use it on CD? not sure how this thing works... dont wanna scuff a run trying it out.
honest needle
@balmy condor can u help me setup a sin raid set and a sin m+ set or should i just do outlaw for m+
idle nova
winged basin
shoutout to my dad @balmy condor and all the other rogues that coached me on, am better cause of this community
winged basin
I DID THE THING
beat myself up all day, and was like, you dumbass, just go and kill here DUH and thats what Idid
manic pebble
Grats
rancid bobcat
gz beast
winged basin
thanks guyyyyyyyys ❤️
arctic walrus
mastery/vers gems getting better for me now 
balmy condor
gt fkd
nimble trench
I'm hoping to get Mad World done. I came in late, but I'm getting there. Next week I'm hoping to load the hell up on Expedient 3 so I can finally have good corruptions.
fleet whale
Mad World isn't too difficult for rogues. In fact i think rogues are one of the best solo classes for visions
nimble trench
Is most of the trash skippable or something?
balmy condor
yeah
red plaza
+shrouded suffocation just melts everything
prime rock
@nimble trench You don't need to rush if you have relatively high cloak and all tech unlocked. Know the route - eat some of the Goulash for health regen. Use your CDs on bosses, if you've got Expedients and 3xSS you should be able to kill all bosses before they use most of their abilities. Skip as much trash as you can with stealth. Take some 100 sanity food for emergencies (be careful not to eat with fear mechanic or below half sanity add spawn). I find leech poison quite useful, as well as the 'get me out of stun oh sh*t' potion (Draenic Living Action Potion). Also buy some drums for bosses that are a little more challenging (thinking end boss + orgrimar boar etc.) good luck!
fallow peak
Is expedient 3 coming up soon?
prime rock
jul 14 I think
fallow peak
Roger
strange python
does clf scale with anything? in my sims it always deals more dmg than ingame
balmy condor
it scales with neck level I think
if its doing a good amount more in sims than in game, its most likely player error
strange python
how? doesnt it just aa the boss itself?
balmy condor
not casting it as much as the sim, gimping the haste when you cast it
the aa part of it scales off haste I'm pretty sure
no idea
strange python
aaah if it scales with haste that explains it
cuz in the sim i have 1 more exp 3 equipped
tyvm
balmy condor
np
slim pebble
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
arctic bramble
should i cleanse IS 2 on my 475 dagger for expedients ?
i got it from the weekly chest
balmy condor
yes
arctic bramble
also is there a base line of crit that i would stay above? say, 30% ?
arctic bramble
so running at 20% crit is fine ?
manic pebble
Just get haste as much as possible
balmy condor
if that's the highest sim, yes
manic pebble
It’s usually 1 workshop ring and 1 junkyard ring, but depends on what the sims say tho
arctic bramble
ugh its so messy right now because i have diff corruption all over the shop, ill wait til next week when i buy expi 3 so i can sim properly
balmy condor
You can sim the expeds you will add
arctic bramble
im guessing i have to select "purify" then select expidient ?
steep plover
If i have is2 on some legs, but i dont really have anything good to put an expedient on yet should i wait till i do and cleanse it or just cleanse it regardless
balmy condor
You should wait
Until you have something to replace it
Having the corruption is better than not having it
astral tiger
Can someone explain CT prio in relation to Envenom for me? When does one take precedence over the other?
balmy condor
In raids or m+
balmy condor
CT takes precedent over envenom when CT is not up on the target
It’s less important than rupture however
astral tiger
Aight so if both are about to expire at the same time, rupture first, but otherwise just try to keep uptime on CT 100% or as close to that as I can?
astral tiger
Ideally, yes, but situations always occur 😛
balmy condor
Ye
Usually not though
Rupture pandemic should be long enough
7 seconds is enough time to figure it out
astral tiger
Yeah I'm just thinking with exsang, windows always get weird 😛
manic pebble
The thing I like about CT is that I can have big aoe option anytime I want instead of RNG proc from PB
manic pebble
Same
Before I use CT I was like “why do I have to push 1 more button in my rotation, it’s already hard enough”
balmy condor
Unlucky
indigo mulch
I dunno, is it really unlucky? 😄
balmy condor
Unlucky that you don’t have more exped
indigo mulch
Nah i was just late to the party :c
Despite all the corruption shit i still enjoy 8.3 :X
indigo mulch
Aye
Actually looking forward to shadowlands, been awhile since i was looking forward to an exp aswell. :x
I hope blizzard will make sub somewhat competitive aswell so i can actually play something else than assassination. :C
balmy condor
I just hope they learned from azerite about having to switch covenants
indigo mulch
Oh, you didnt see the interview right?
balmy condor
I did
indigo mulch
Ah
balmy condor
But I’m afraid that they’ll buff something in a patch
And we’ll have to change back
indigo mulch
Ofc as always.
Its ALWAYS like that. Something is to strong and they nerf it and we'll be sitting there grinding it 😄
again
patent topaz
indigo mulch
Covenants abilitys arent tho
From what i saw the necrolords seams to be pretty dope.
balmy condor
Either way, they need to understand the pain of being forced into something
And having janky systems to change it
indigo mulch
I just hope that the soulbinder thing is what will matter and not the actual covenant. :X
Imagian having the best m+ in the carebear forest and the best raid shit in necro's :X
balmy condor
And the best for torghast is another one lul
indigo mulch
haha
Thanks blizzard, your once again making me thinking about the choices i'll have to make. Atleast i'll spend 33% of the time feeling good about myself. The other 66% i wont. ❤️
balmy condor
If you wanna pvp, it’s a 4th one
I already see the bullshit coming
Smell it from here
indigo mulch
As long as the soulbinder is equal on every covenant i'm happy enough with it :/
low girder
I give that about a 0% chance unless they just remove the last trait thing on all of them
indigo mulch
I mean there is still time!
balmy condor
Yeah not happening
low girder
Blizzard is very dug in on this, they were on azerite too
If anything happens it won't be until 9.1
indigo mulch
I mean that went well for them.
😄
Maybe with proper testing things will be somewhat "okay".
balmy condor
Yeah, absolutely fantastic
indigo mulch
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for once.
balmy condor
Definitely not one of the most hated systems ever implemented
indigo mulch
😄
indigo mulch
Ack, what do we know. We're only "entitled gamers"
edgy flame
Theu will never balance this many systems lmao
indigo mulch
Like every early exp :X
takes them about 2 major content patches to get things somewhat right lol
I feel like the people who likes focusing on 2 or maybe 3 things will be fairly shafted by new soulbinder thing
who knows
humble flare
hey need help with sin for pvp, toxic blade or which talents?
humble flare
tyty
sharp swallow
warm olive
is there a way to check my stats (haste rating/% etc) in top gear sim when i sim stat contaminants?
fathom swift
Yeah you can see them in the html report if the number of iterations isnt too high
warm olive
Hm, i dont see it. Where would it be in the report if its there?
astral tiger
how does sin usually sim for m+? like 6 targ 1 min or something?
steep plover
Something like that and dungeon slice is what it sounds like
But its hard to sim for m+ so dont take it at face value
I do 5 bosses 1 min no buffs and also dungeon slice and use the info from both
I feel like 5 bosses is better to see just sheer aoe power
astral tiger
Aight, I just felt like messing around in some lower keys while echo farming, and so I figured i'd try to optimize a bit, but I have no idea how to play sin in a dungeon lmao
Only thing I've played it in was tyrannical workshop lmao
and that was just my normal expedient build
steep plover
What gear do u have
3 ss seems to be the consensus and then 2 or 3 eb if ur able to
astral tiger
I have 3 ss normally, but I have a set with 3 ss and 2 EB
One overrides my gorak's, but oh well 😛
steep plover
Ye that bangs
astral tiger
Do you run hidden blades on fort?
astral tiger
ahh okay
steep plover
I dont like hidden blades
Cause u kind of want to spam with eb so it doesnt work as well fkr me
astral tiger
What kinda corruption do you tend to go? haste or crit?
astral tiger
like crit/vers gear with severe and strikethrough?
steep plover
Ye thats usually how it goes
But mastery is still good
Haste is seen as the least priority for m+ since u can get bleeds out on multiple mobs and proc venemous wounds i think its called
So ur energy regens fast
astral tiger
Ahh okay that's fair
steep plover
But it might fill sluggish for bosses so i guess feel it out for urself
astral tiger
What about trinkets? Do you just run like torment and an on use for vendetta like plumage?
or maybe like harlans?
astral tiger
for talents is like 2/2/2/2/3/3 okay? or do people prefer TB over Exsang?
steep plover
Tb mostly
astral tiger
What about essences? Just like blood major, breath, vop, and lucid?
steep plover
I run 2/2/1/2/2/2/3
Ye blood major for sure
Breath and lucid are also pretty standard picks
And conflict, or vop ye but i prefer conflict
The vers is big
And eb scales alot with vers too
But vop lines ur blood and vendetta if u like that and i think it gives u some vers too
But conflict is big
astral tiger
Do you know what you tend to sim at for 5 targ 1 min?
Just to see around where my gear is for it 😛
steep plover
But the general gist is, eb and ss, stack severes and strikethroughs and usually run blood major, lucid breath and conflict or vop
Um i havent in ages tbh
I think maybe like 120k+ ?
But i havent ran sims for m+ in a while
astral tiger
I assume you're talking about dslice?
astral tiger
Because if you're talking about 5 targ 1 min...
steep plover
1 min no buff
astral tiger
Meaning no food or flask?
astral tiger
lmao cause i'm simming at 233k
steep plover
And im thinking of a different number
astral tiger
so
astral tiger
lmaoo that would be kinda awkward 😛 if you really did sim at 120k
steep plover
But my dmg is really good for m+ easily keep uo for aoe and cleave and then usually beat most in st still
ikrrr
astral tiger
Yeah cause my outlaw sims at 123k for dungeon slice, so that's kinda what I was assuming 😛
steep plover
Ye true
astral tiger
I play sin in raid and outlaw for m+, but I like to change things up 😛
steep plover
Im enjoying sin in m+ honestly
Im suprsied but with ss and eb damage output is insane
astral tiger
I enjoy it but it feels like a lot more work and when outlaw performs better usually + is easier + has more utility, it's just kinda the way to go imo 😛
vast forum
why would you play TB over exsang in m+?
astral tiger
yeah for dslice I sim at 107k for this build 😛
I would assume for the phat envenom crits if you're going a lot of crit gear
And exsang feels like it falls off at lower haste, no?
vast forum
"phat" envenom crits don't exist, 90% of your damage is from bleeds and fok
tropic ocean
exsang in m+ is not tied to haste
it still is ur highest burst ability
and synergizes extremely well with ss
vast forum
we're not in s2 anymore where we use ttk
TB isn't as valuable
it just doesn't do anything better than exsang except MAYBE pretending to be a sub rogue
astral tiger
lmaooo
Yeah i mean i know nothing about sin in m+, I just play my happy expedient rogue in raid and call it a day 😛
Yeah PP is simming over Lucid and Focusing over C&S, and exsang pulling ahead of TB. But of course, that is assuming perfect circumstances in a 5 target 1 min fight 😛
steep plover
I reference the top m+ players cause i dont shit about the theory like u guys and alot of them use tb and i like it so thats what ive jjst gone for
vast forum
the top m+ player also currently has iris major
steep plover
Woops
vast forum
the top m+ players also play what they played the previous seasons and are used to
steep plover
So ud recommend going exsang over tb with m+
rancid bobcat
Is it better with no haste
steep plover
Ye i thought it wouldnt be that useful without haste but idk
sharp snow
guys i can combine 3x ss and 1x eb or 2 ss and 2 eb
it sims higher with 2eb for m+
but should i keep 3 ss for boss fights?
and smaller packs
Talking about m+
vast forum
always 3ss
vagrant mauve
@sharp snow why do you ask when you clearly already have made up your own mind?
sharp snow
what i was asking
is
if i should put that ss up bcs of boss fights
or its better as i wont go over 100k on single target regardless
sharp snow
okay. will stick then with 3ss until i get 2nd eb
keen tree
I mostly do m+ and im using 435 azerite gear which has ss on all three pieces. I got a piece of 450 azerite gear from weekly pvp chest but it has no ss 😦 Should I use it still or not?
north pond
Can someone help me with what essence I should be using if I don’t have condensed life force? I ran the raid last night and we wiped 20 times so I left. Thanks in advance.
shrewd night
keen tree
ah ok
ok i'll stick with the low level azerite gear then - thanks for that. I hope RNGesus blesses me some time soon but i get such little azerite gear it's kinda depressing
steep plover
I feel like at the lvl it wont be too big of a deal just keep in mind what ur goal is
umbral rapids
halle freaking lujah
keen tree
I feel like at the lvl it wont be too big of a deal just keep in mind what ur goal is
@steep plover what do you mean 'what your goal is'?
tropic ocean
raid build valuable in sots as well
vagrant mauve
@keen tree I assume he means whether you want to do primarily M+, Raid or something else entirely
tropic ocean
@balmy condor
decent overall
but way on top every boss, also helps a lot with 1 phasing last boss
kind edge
@umbral rapids Is that ring any good for m+?
steep plover
@steep plover what do you mean 'what your goal is'?
@keen tree what u want to build towards and so which pieces of gear/corruptions u should work towards
umbral rapids
I don’t know I don’t plan on playing m+ as sin. I have all the bis available to me on outlax so I’ll use that in m+
I’m just learning sin for a raid build
@kind edge
Sad times is that I wasted a roll on it so I need to waste more to build up bad luck protection 
muted ridge
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xbvLXC2wzrGjymkW#fight=8&type=casts&source=19&view=timeline Any tips I could get to improve my rotation? I still don't know how to use Gale properly
vast forum
@tropic ocean i'm glad you changed your mind about raidbuild in m+ 🙂
@muted ridge use gale the exact opposite way of what you did
you have to use it before exsang
ideally on pull tbh
also, vendetta immediately after the 2nd garrote
you overwrote your empowered garrotes 30 sec into the fight
you skipped an exsanguinate at 1.40
delayed it until vend/vanish
you should vend before vanish
muted ridge
Oh I never thought about it, thanks a lot.
keen tree
Is there a macro or something that can stop you overwriting an empowered garrotte?
keen tree
haha yes yes i know but in the panic of an m+ i sometimes worry i do it 🙂
muted ridge
Also when do I garrote again while having my empowered one? do I wait untill it completely falls off or can I use garrote when its on 1 sec
tropic ocean
@vast forum well its still not even close to being competitive in dmg output
but it has its uses here and there
I did 2 shrines today and the overall difference was 31k :/
tropic ocean
but I guess for purposes like pushing and/or carrying bosses its decent
vast forum
and all that non-elite damage in first room and in front of 2nd boss
vast forum
the dungeon is literally impossible if those don't die 2 sec faster
tropic ocean
I mean can always meme or can discuss properly 🤷
vast forum
no, i'm agreeing with you that it's good for pushing, just saying, in shrine, EB numbers are heavily inflated
tropic ocean
i'm just not sure if sacrificing so much overall is worth it
personally I just play it when I feel it will be useful
and for the obv low trash keys
tropic ocean
for shrine I made the decision that raidbuild will really help with last boss and windseeker
so I took it for 2nd shrine
kind edge
Do you guys use the mechagon rings for m+? The one that does damage or the haste one?
tropic ocean
ye
vast forum
haste
kind edge
cool
I used the damage one, but I'll switch to the haste one
7500 damage to a random nearby enemy not that much I guess
vast forum
useless
wet ruin
don't really think iris minor is that good though
kind edge
Yeah true
tropic ocean
it is
wet ruin
you switch targets too often
tropic ocean
doesnt matter
vast forum
if you press fok or CT, it keeps stacks
wet ruin
or your main one dies
tropic ocean
u only need to attack ur main target every 3 sec
or 4 sec
and u usually just spread dots
then stick to one target anyway
vast forum
the "main target dies" is not an issue on higher keys
muted ridge
thanks :^]
shut garnet
thats m+?
shut garnet
sheesh
tropic ocean
its not full stacks tho
tropic ocean
but in aoe u never drop the stacks until pull is over unless u play bad
and in boss u never drop it anyway
outside downtiem
downtime*
vast forum
does it also count out-of-combat time tho?
i could see the stacks dropping when you're kiting obelisk mobs 😄
wet ruin
depends on what you mean by out-of-combat
shut garnet
psure it does
vast forum
when you're not in combat 🤷♂️
tropic ocean
need to log next run and see
wet ruin
do you still play lucid for 3rd
marsh fjord
Do you guys think that blizzard will fix downtime in SL Sin rogue with the low haste and so on ?
tropic ocean
yes
steep plover
Sweet
wet ruin
I actually meant c&s, don't know why I said lucid
tropic ocean
i play vision/cns depending on key
ripe halo
shrewd night
warm olive
reading this chat the past weeks made me really want to try out the raid build. this is what i could come up with after next weeks expedient rotation. do you think it is viable to switch? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ruJqKjSXXXtpUDWmktJViY please ignore the max corruption since it doesnt reflect my cloak resi at that point. are there any obvious improvements you can see? 6 r3 expedients is the max i can afford.
sullen pagoda
mechagon rings
under no condition do u put corruptions on those rings unless you are willing to use subpar things and have to refarm it again after
warm olive
i get your point, i can switch the R3 on the ring to the belt, R1 is already on the other ring. would the 465 illgy shoulds be an upgrade? dont have them yet, but 480 with clock.
sullen pagoda
nah they wouldnt most likely
even 480 ilgy are behind clockwork on that build
especially on 3min clockwork is best simming one
id just wait for mechagon rings and put corruptions on them cuz ilvl on rings dont matter that much so u dont put corruption on a 465 belt
shut garnet
wait surely u just play vigor tb in m+ if you have zero haste
why would u play ds exang 
balmy condor
Correct, vigor Tb is the play
cloud fox
in m+ do yous play 3 echoing with 3 ss ?
balmy condor
For fort keys yeah
cloud fox
and for tyr just stick with raid build
balmy condor
In WS/KR and maybe in SoB/ToS you would switch out EB traits for TTK
2x EB 1x TTK
But you can go 2x TTK in really spooky tyran keys
If you really want to
You’d then also switch to poison bomb
cloud fox
nice got ya , and with corruption is it still 3 severe and 3 stikethough or just flat out haste
balmy condor
2-3 severe and then stack strikethrough
Should be able to get more than 3 strikethrough
If you don’t have TTK traits you can run HoD as well and stay with CT
That works too
cloud fox
yeh i was just wondering as if it should be = to each other so for every1 severe you have a strikethough
but am guessing 3 is max for severe and then stack strikethough
balmy condor
3 severe with crit/vers or crit/mast on every piece should be more than enough crit
cloud fox
cool got ya thank for the help
balmy condor
Np
willow pulsar
It most likely depends on your crit and sockets, my setup with crit on every item and crit gem on every item shows me 3 severe is ok up to 8 targets, after that exchanging one severe for strike is a gain
balmy condor
Yeah
The amount of pulls you have with more than 8 mobs tho
Not very high
Beach on tol dagor maybe
tropic ocean
trinkets 2
solar latch
what corruption should I focus on purchasing for raiding my guild is 3/12 mythic and I want to boost my damage in raids
keen dome
expedient III is generally the way, you may want to sim for better answers
balmy condor
Yeah really you’ll just stack haste and expedients
strange python
quick sim says to use clf prepull but if u use it u obviously get out of stealth what is the optimal way to use it?
crimson palm
clf and then stealth
strange python
2 secs before pull or is that too early and id be better off with bote?
crimson palm
depends how much you trust your raid xD
im using it like 1.5s before so there's enough time to stealth and prepot
strange python
aight tyvm
keen dome
if you don't use prepull you cast it right before vendetta iirc
balmy condor
Correct
kind edge
Does anyone use Toxic Blade for m+?
In combination with poison bomb instead of Crimston Tempest
pale tiger
i use toxic blade but CT in most dungeons
balmy condor
Yeah
kind edge
So you guys use Crimson Tempest?
balmy condor
You run TTK in those keys so pb>ct
kind edge
I know in previous patches people used poison bomb more often
balmy condor
Yeah crimson tempest is the go to
kind edge
Nice
pale tiger
yeah not having ct makes me feel naked
balmy condor
Nothing worse than not getting a proc and then getting a proc at the very end of a pack
Or a proc and the tank moves all the mobs
balmy condor
It’s just the consistency is nice and it’s similar if not better aoe
So worth
You lose single target but it makes up for it
pale tiger
its just hard to actually compare them because you can't just compare the overall damage at the end of a dungeon
since pb is letting you get more envenoms and ruptures in
balmy condor
Yeah
balmy condor
Only workshop
weak trellis
https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-exsanguinate/ People really using 1 x rank 3 honed mind for the Exsanguinate build?
pale tiger
are you asking about ws or jy clan?
balmy condor
Yeah
weak trellis
Can see it's live now, might get it and store it 🙂
balmy condor
We don’t have resistance yet to run the honed mind
weak trellis
Yeah, makes sense
balmy condor
Some people sim higher with racing pulse
pale tiger
i run 3ss 3 eb in jy
balmy condor
3x SS 3x EB
kind edge
What about workshop?
kind edge
I see
pale tiger
you could even go two ttk in ws
balmy condor
Yeah
pale tiger
i wouldnt go 2 in kr
balmy condor
WS is mega single target
Feel like you could go with exped exsang in tyran WS
And just be chillin
balmy condor
But anyway, @kind edge you’ll want 3x SS in every single key regardless of crit build or exped
The damage you get from SS and subt at the start of every pull, all the restealths, it’s insane compared to anything else
From there you go 3x EB for the aoe damage, and if you’re doing a key that needs more boss damage, WS/KR, maybe ToS/SoB on tyran for example
You would run TTK in place of an EB
And that’s the general layout
Exsang can work though
It’s just not really “THE” setup
pale tiger
for really high SoB people run some wacky ST stuff
this week at least
but that's an outlier for sure
balmy condor
Yeah not sure what’s going on there tbh so I’m not gonna comment on it
Rather no info than wrong info, especially with all the confusion around m+ these days
pale tiger
its just because all that matters is boss damage in bolstering siege since the spotter plays the game for you
balmy condor
I hate spotter strats tbh
pale tiger
yeah its awful
balmy condor
It feels so wrong
pale tiger
siege is a terrible dungeon
balmy condor
Idk why blizz thought it was a good idea to have it hit other mobs
Should’ve only been able to damage the pack the spotter is in tbh
Playing sin in siege with a spotter sucks
Gotta drop combat and janky shit and it’s just not a fun time
woven summit
You use deadly + versatile navigation for m+?
kind edge
Yup
woven summit
Yeah crit + vers makes blades go brrrr 😄
balmy condor
Vers nav kinda suck if you don’t have EB
woven summit
yeah true, versatility contributes a lot with the blades
kind edge
Does anyone know the price of Severance rank 3 from MOTHER? Can't find it anywhere for rank 3 lol
Found it for rank 2, it's 4.2k Echoes
But can't find it for rank 3 for some reason
kind edge
Aight, thanks a lot
scenic nacelle
Imagine if they just released all corruptions. That just makes too much sense.
weak trellis
How much haste do you think you need to have before you can switch to Exsanguinate? Sat at 54% haste currently. I feel like it's like 60%?
balmy condor
Usually 30ish
weak trellis
lolwut
balmy condor
60% you start getting into CT single target territory
I’ve seen as low as 26% exsang and 51% CT
I’m guessing your SS azerite is garbage
weak trellis
That's the dream. Trying to get setup for raiding. Still farming for r3 blood. Still running r3 wr for now..
balmy condor
Do you have R3 CLF
Feel free to send me a top gear, I’ll take a look once I decide to get out of bed lmao
weak trellis
hold on, I'll show ya
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qoXLtKEknno2yGcjsi2Gja this is my current setup
Mostly just raiding atm, do a little bit of m+
weak trellis
Have been pooling resources to switch to Exsanguinate
balmy condor
Now I really have to get out of bed
balmy condor
No problem lul
tropic ocean
wassupppppppppppp
balmy condor
hey ausrr
tropic ocean
weekly goal 3.9k with raid build only
balmy condor
nice nice
balmy condor
pale tiger
willow pulsar
You wont convince me xD
balmy condor
he's not gonna convince a lot of people XD
solar latch
so the way to go with corruption is a bunch expedient and 1 infinite stars?
pale tiger
no
willow pulsar
Yo i like cheese
pale tiger
if you really want to rng parse i would just go DD with a billlion tendies
keen tree
in m+ on trash packs i put out 3 empowered garrottes and then i dont refresh them. how many ruptures should i get out there and shoul di keep refreshing those?
willow pulsar
Yup
pale tiger
yeah just put one rupture out at the start and then put more out as your garrotes fall off
keen tree
so 3 garrotte and 1 rup .. then 4 rup when the garrottes go down?
ah ok cool 🙂 that's good to knwo
balmy condor
just maintain 4 dots
pale tiger
or vanish and 3 garrotes if the pack will live long enough
balmy condor
yeah
keen tree
and are they higher priority than CT?
balmy condor
depends imo
I think if you're at 0 ruptures
then yes
but if you have 3 and your ct is about to fall off for example
probably worth doing CT and then the rup after
willow pulsar
I think that yea, they are higher prio than ct
keen tree
right got it
i need to get a good WA to track all this i think. I got one for counting ruptures .. just need one for CT i think.
/wa
oops
tropic ocean
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
keen tree
just gonna look for a standalone timer for it i think
i've gone off groups
especially as im kinda cheating at the moment while i get the hang of things - using hekili
balmy condor
rotation helpers are kinda really trash
keen tree
yeah i know but hekili really helps right now
im still new to this
i do take it with a massive pinch of salt though - and im weaning myself off it
balmy condor
yeah I mean as long as you know its trash
arctic walrus
well you dont really need to track your CT on multiple targets, timer is the same across the board
balmy condor
learning it wrong is yucky
arctic walrus
unless you're running exsang I suppose but you would reapply at that point anyway
solar latch
I really like luxthos wa shows me cool downs
willow pulsar
It's a really bad habbit, you will find yourself not paying attention to enviroment things and mechanics
pale tiger
not sure why you would need dot timers, do your nameplates not show debuffs?
balmy condor
I use dot timers on my target
if I'm in aoe I'll look at nameplates
but i like having the timers in my face for ST
solar latch
i dont use nameplates so having a wa aura flash on a rupture tells me i need to refresh it soon is neat
balmy condor
okay well that's definitely bad
pale tiger
no nameplates 
balmy condor
not using nameplates is kinda really awful
pale tiger
thats actually terrible
balmy condor
cause that means you actually can't track dots
unless you tab through everything I guess
pale tiger
or casts of multiple targets
balmy condor
but holy that's janky
solar latch
tried using elvui but game would keep disconnecting me
so i play mostly without addons if I can
balmy condor
that's actually not how that works
pale tiger
the default ui has nameplates
balmy condor
and yeah
pale tiger
but yeah that also doesnt really make sense
balmy condor
the default ones are honestly fine
solar latch
whati mean is custom nameplates
pale tiger
and there are tons of different nameplate addons
balmy condor
client side addons don't cause DC's
solar latch
default is fine for me
keen tree
It's a really bad habbit, you will find yourself not paying attention to enviroment things and mechanics
@willow pulsar i use the rotation helper exactly to ALLOW me to focus on mechanics and environment
willow pulsar
For me it was very distracting
pale tiger
your rotation should basically just be muscle memory
pale tiger
getting used to looking at an addon telling you what to do is definitely not a good way to learn imo
balmy condor
just gotta make sure he doesn't learn bad habits
mental trout
What mythic + do you guys run full ST?
balmy condor
tyran WS
well
more specifically, tyran WS that doesnt have teeming
I would probably run EB even on that
balmy condor
oof
pale tiger
teeming ws is like 1 extra mob
balmy condor
yeah tru
I was thinking the bridge
cause the %
but I guess that's not a big difference huh
pale tiger
not really
i would still take 1 or 2 ebs but thats just because i dont have an exped setup yet
i think it would good, would probably run it if i had it
balmy condor
yeah exped probably better
twilit stratus
hy i big noob. i tot for garrotes or after when spamming fok pls?
pale tiger
wat