What is up booyyyyssss
#assassination
balmy condor
mental trout
For progression do you guys stay under 40? I haven’t gone over 40 on my rogue just my DH, what’s the play to avoid it? WA?
dense blaze
I did under 40 for prog
mental trout
I use cloak for a lot of mechanics to cheese, save for tfb? Blind never seems to work well bc aoe on the boss.
main forge
definitely under 40 for prog. Struggling on mechanics due to corruption sucks
silent crescent
Yeah idk why my blind always breaks on tfb
balmy condor
Yeah
balmy condor
Thing from beyond
main forge
oh yeah
dense blaze
That's a healer mechanic
balmy condor
Under 40 for sure if you’re on prog
main forge
I use cloak as a back up... oh shit button
mental trout
My guild is a carry over from classic, we are only 3/12 mythic but only raided and hour and a half in there so far. We will see how this week goes with 2 full days. I expect to hit a wall soon first three were one shots
crimson palm
79 is fine on most bosses
balmy condor
main forge
like on maut, nobody puts a circle near the boss and I tunnel so I forget to get near one... cloak!
first 3 bosses are easy... next three with my current guild is as struggle
we got shadhar down, but hivemind feels more nuts than shadhar, and xanesh is just everybody learning how to kick a ball that only has a few options to pull off
balmy condor
Shad you just need to get out of p2
Hivemind you have to damage the right mobs
I think hive isn’t actually that bad
It took us less pulls than shad
mental trout
If any one is experienced in mythic and would like to tag along from NA to share the best strategy’s lmk 😉
main forge
we 6 healed shadhar so it took longer than most kills. Not sure what other mitigation other classes get but its nice to be number 15 on the damage taken chart
but ideally you 4-5 heal it, and just hero at the start of P2 to push him over... my vendetta and CDs are always like 20s-30s on cooldown that hero lineup...
balmy condor
We all got our own lockouts crimp xD
You can usually see strats from logs and vids though
Vods on twitch are good
vast forum
3heal shad is the usual strat
main forge
on progression? probably actually would be better... don't have to heal if people die to avoidable damage
tropic ocean
progression maybe 4 heal
having 2 more dps makes the fighter easier
cuz u can end phase faster
main forge
Mad that I died this week about halfway through p3 on shad... Used all my tricks to take less damage and then forgot I didn't have healing potion on a button and went to look to click it
and died....
then got rezzed later... last pull of the night... died with 3 million hp... after I got rezzed a little late
young vessel
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7JY4m81fW9ttUBuhWvAP5r how much dps change will be gibbering maw and cara chest mythic?
sand whale
gear compare my friend
balmy condor
dense blaze
Helmet probably the biggest for the third SS
young vessel
simming it, gonna see
strange python
do we try to align galecallers with exsang or do w e use it on cd?
drifting cloud
Nobody sims 120 on 5min
patent topaz
ive been doing 3 mins last couple of weeks. Number is a bit higher but gear / essences are the same
main forge
People at that level are killing the first several bosses at 3 minutes or under
young vessel
well for sure i need more expedients to replace on that wrists and do some more T3s
thats 3 minute one
balmy condor
How much did those gems do though
I argue probably not worth
Exped 3 comes around and you’ll have to Re-gem
mental trout
Some one once told me, gem haste and forget about it 
patent topaz
oh no, 100g down the drain
mental trout
No 34% crit though !?
silent crescent
Stack more haste to get out of the expansion faster
balmy condor
Ryder with the strats
patent topaz
around 500 dps in favor of crit/mastry
balmy condor
Stack speed on all your gear, that way you can run away from bfa
sand whale
shoulda stacked that avoidance when bfa started
shy axle
which major do you prefer for nzoth myth? breath or just clf/blood for St dmg?
patent topaz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8MHkTeb3okdPUFUUuxG6VR will see how this goes
balmy condor
CLF/Blood
shy axle
thanks
shy axle
feels weird doing the first few phases as assa, still unsure how to use cds on nzoth. First tentacles? no, they are dead anyway. First psychus? not sure if worth it. Do you hold them until first nzoth dmg phase ?
tropic ocean
i use 2nd tent set
shy axle
ok thanks mate
umbral rapids
@balmy condor when vendetta comes back up
tropic ocean
can u believe i gamble so much corruption
to end up with 500k dmg by infinite stars
pffffffffff
umbral rapids
vanish gar rup gar rup exang bote ?
mellow pier
Did it hit an add?
tropic ocean
well racing pulse has big uptime
so that wouldnt be an issue
but it also doesnt give me +7k dps
😄
tropic ocean
no but rng is rng
tropic ocean
def not overvalued in sim
shy dust
It’s wrong to say it sims incorrectly just overvalued relative to raid
mellow pier
If u wanna run higher corruption just run an extra exp3 or honed/pulse imo
Or a tendy and pray for proc lol
tropic ocean
its not worth to run an extra exp or honed pulse
when u play high corruption
u want to run gamble corruption and hit good rng
for log
mellow pier
On maut u can play as much corruption as u want theres no dmg
mellow pier
Not if ur kill is sub 2mins theres 0 dmg lol
tropic ocean
there is
shy dust
Not like you need to run insane amounts of corruption
remote oriole
for 1xss and 2xdd should i MA or subterfuge?
shy dust
To parse well
mellow pier
Nah u dont at all
shy dust
Sim whichever is better but more than likely Subterfuge
mellow pier
U can just run 55
shy dust
^
mellow pier
Or is it 53 this week
shy dust
You can easily parse on every fight with sub 60
mellow pier
Yeah
tropic ocean
r1 maut is only 40% tentacle
mellow pier
U dont need 95 for rank 1 even
tropic ocean
yeah
mellow pier
U just need fast kill times and good crits
tropic ocean
r1 89 corruption btw
mellow pier
And no mechanics lol
drifting cloud
just equip even more maybe you will finally get out of purple parses
loud light
just call a wipe if your tendies don't go wild
drifting cloud
and r2 on maut is 55 corr
toxic remnant
okay, so as a heroic raider trying to get into mythic, I should be using the heroic cara and nzoth azerite pieces. assume DD and HOD? then whatever helmet sims highest?
dense blaze
Imagine running your average down if you die to your corruption early in a pull, terrifying stuff
balmy condor
@toxic remnant you should try to get SS pieces
heroic raden for the helm
goraks from the vendor, type II bomber is good as a chest
cara chest is good too
balmy condor
perfect
toxic remnant
but I don't have the corruptions for SS build
balmy condor
what corruptions are you running?
exped comes around on the 14th
you'd want expeds regardless of your build
toxic remnant
I've got gushings, I used to pvp a lot, so I have 9 right now
i swapped from outlaw just yesterday with strikethrough and severe
balmy condor
you can run a DD/TTK thing with crit
but its definitely not the optimal way to go about it
toxic remnant
so maybe my best build would be to go with the crit built and 3x DD/hod?
balmy condor
I would assume 1 TTK from I think Nzoth azerite
toxic remnant
obv just gonna sim it, but trying to figure out where to start right now
currently ive got 3 ttk, 2 NP, 1 ss
just cuz its my pvp set pretty much
balmy condor
@quaint vortex don't you do a weird crit thing
I'm a little out of my element on this
I think she has a ton of GW too
quaint vortex
I do have a weird crit build, give me a sec to read above and figure it out
balmy condor
I'll brb, going through our dms to refresh my memory
toxic remnant
so right now I've got 3 strike 3, 3 sev 3,
just trying to figure out how to optimize my azerite traits
the corrupted pieces are mostly on crit/vers pieces
from my old outlaw set
quaint vortex
so my build up until recently was 2x rank 2 tendies and a blend of severe, but I dropped a r2 tendy in favor of more GW recently (because I also PvP and don't have an abundance of echoes, and I play outlaw for m+)
balmy condor
ah yeah okay I remember now
we were replacing the GW with expeds
but it was like 6k or something
quaint vortex
I was getting the best sims with 3x DD, 1x swirling sands, 1x TTK, the crit on goraks, and HOD
quaint vortex
it wasn't bad but even our expedient sim went up 1.7k or something like that with the swirling sands helm instead
balmy condor
yeah
quaint vortex
it was actually a pretty big gap
balmy condor
GW is hasted, so I think you'll be fine gfunk
you'll probably see gains replacing a couple with expeds
quaint vortex
tendies scale really well with crit so it's not uncommon to see 1 tendy do well over 500k damage with swirling sands proc up
balmy condor
yeah
quaint vortex
I think the highest I saw from 1 was 580k and I was sitting around 88% crit at the time
and I have better gear with more sockets since then lol
safe acorn
quick question
safe acorn
whats a good character to race change toi
balmy condor
Troll is good
quaint vortex
night elf 💯
balmy condor
night elf is good on alli yeah
safe acorn
im horde lmao
safe acorn
D:<
quaint vortex
I'm mentally prepared for the flame already
balmy condor
mental trout
Is the orc racial even that good for pve? I am undead and want to switch so bad. Either orc or blood elf
balmy condor
DW anastasia, you aight
safe acorn
im vulpera right now
balmy condor
racials don't do much
quaint vortex
Most people go orc for PvP because the stun reduction is REALLY good
balmy condor
its minimal tbh
drifting cloud
Yes both orcs are good for assa
balmy condor
troll and night elf are ahead of everything by a decent amount
but its nothing huge
quaint vortex
it's less for pve and you would prob want to go troll if you're planning to just pve
mental trout
Troll the best for horde? Nothing huge =?
drifting cloud
Barely
balmy condor
cause they got them pizza feet
harsh sphinx
drifting cloud
And prolly not even on 3min
safe acorn
i can zan troll since i have them
balmy condor
honestly do whatever you want to
safe acorn
can go*
quaint vortex
zan troll models are hideous though
balmy condor
racials don't matter
quaint vortex
and trolls are getting some nice customization in SL
balmy condor
I don't think its worth thinking about the DPS of racials
mental trout
Is there a dressing room of sorts where I can view my char on different races?
safe acorn
they can choose a loa whcih can boost a stat
safe acorn
yeah ik but i just wanted some opinions yah know
balmy condor
yeh
quaint vortex
belf model is nice
balmy condor
so basic
quaint vortex
please don't tell me you play nightborne :>
quaint vortex
okay good. but back to OP, just play whatever you can stomach looking at all day - wouldn't worry too much about racials unless you're doing some bleeding edge content. losing vulpera racial will really suck if you're a mount farmer or completionist
wet ruin
formless major on vexiona is kinda pog
steep obsidian
whats wrong with clf on vex?
balmy condor
CLF is fine, but it's not really what you want to grab with formless
Bote into clf on the second one
crimson palm
That's the whole point of fv major
balmy condor
not on pull is the point
crimson palm
Who said anything about on pull kekw
wet ruin
it was pretty ok
crimson palm
You can bote vanish the pack after she flies down
unreal imp
Trying to sort through my bag of random pieces of gear and pitch or bank anything I won't use for a sin set at some point, and it seems pretty much anything with haste is potentially viable? Looking at stuff for potentially PvP and PvE (raid primarily). For PvP Haste/Vers pieces seem to have a bit of an advantage though, of course.
And before anyone says "sim yoself", I don't really have the spare azerite and a couple other things I'd want/need for it to be worth even trying to switch and have a sim tell me anything useful.
crimson palm
Bote is better
quaint vortex
you really need the vers/haste gear for PvP - it's important to have 18-20% haste in PvP
wet ruin
its rank 15, seems pretty good, considering there are more geared people that can do better
quaint vortex
kinda just want to stack vers and other stats at that point
ideally every equipped piece should have vers on it unless you are running 485 daggers with GW
fleet anchor
Racials are definitely like.. well too small to really majorly consider unless you are omega minmax.
unreal imp
Okay, thanks. Can probably safely ditch anything with Crit/Mastery then that's lower ilvl.
Or Vers/Mastery too I guess...
quaint vortex
vers mast isn't awful for PvP if you're over the haste cap already
fleet anchor
I'm playing literally the worst race technically in Orc but I cba to change and certainly doesn't stop me from parsing lol
unreal imp
If it's below 460 for a bad stat piece at this point it's probably going straight to the vendor or bank. Can restore if I make a mistake anyway.
fleet anchor
Not gonna do a paid race change for 400 DPS 😄
mental trout
are there any bosses to note, that people dont us Vendetta right off the rip?
fleet anchor
N'zoth probably the only one I can think of
balmy condor
yeah n'zoth you hold till you're out of psychus phase
quaint vortex
you also run master poisoner in PvP over elaborate planning so the value of mastery probably goes up a decent amount and could be better than crit (but I'd like to see some sim data on that, it's just me feely crafting)
fleet anchor
I usually use Vendetta on the 2nd adds immediately as they spawn, which still allows it to come up for the first Shattered Ego
1st adds just get blown up in like 8-10 seconds so it's really pointless
mental trout
do you guys leave skitra to skill the shreadder? how about adds on vex?
fleet anchor
But could easily just hold unless you are trying to parse
balmy condor
skitra moves on top of the add
quaint vortex
we don't bother to move boss to add on skitra but I just shadowstep to it and kill it usually
balmy condor
adds on vex also are more of an aoe thing, you would pop cds on boss for that
I guess you could cd onto the big boys
mental trout
we do a cheese way with skita in the corner
balmy condor
but that also seems pretty weird
mental trout
saying just stick on boss and let others take adds on vex
balmy condor
what does putting her in a corner do
quaint vortex
yep we tank her in the little alcoves as well to avoid the adds
if you tank her in the alcoves the walls never go far enough to hit you
balmy condor
oh
quaint vortex
so you never need to CC the walls
mental trout
im just trying to figure out whats the best way to handle some phases. My aoe seems so low, that i feel like i should just stick on ST unless some thing really needs to die fast
quaint vortex
depending on add spawn timer you could probably vanish, emp garrote boss - shadowstep add and emp garrote as well
balmy condor
sin aoe is basically just CT
if you aren't rolling with EB or somethign
and if you're rolling with EB, your single target suffers
that's the struggle of sin
we're okay at each one, but not at the same time
fleet anchor
I mean I do think our AoE with an Expedient setup is totally respectable nowadays.. I've done plenty of keys recently with that setup and pretty much keep up with everyone other than maybe BM Hunters 😛
mental trout
yea im still in the old school crit build world. come the 14th my wow life gets a little better lol
novel drum
finally got full socketed gear along with my second cara dagger. i finally have to throw on vers/crit gems
mental trout
do you use EB @fleet anchor ?
fleet anchor
No
Just triple SS raid setup
Honestly the main reason I swap to Outlaw for some keys is just Gouge/Vanish.. DPS wise I easily do the same as Assassination right now, maybe even more honestly. And definitely do way better on bosses.
I do have an EB setup in my bags but I just don't really like using it
mental trout
i wonder what your raid setup rota is for aoe?
balmy condor
3x garrote from stealth
fan to build cp, maintain CT
its honestly nothing special
normal olive
for let's say 4 enemys is it better to use fan then mut?
normal olive
ah okay guess i did it wrong
balmy condor
unlucky
fleet anchor
If Assassination had Gouge I'd probably play it 100% of the time
young vessel
3 ss 3 hod or 3 ss 2 hod 2 bi
balmy condor
probably BI
young vessel
dont know if should roll ilgy
fleet anchor
I run BI
balmy condor
but that's a sim
fleet anchor
But I'm sure it's pretty close
fleet anchor
haha crisis averted
mental trout
bli?
fleet anchor
I'm always oddly relieved somehow when I am torn on bonus rolling then get AP
novel drum
so is a 400 dps increase worth listening to raidbots? margin of error is only like 50 dps so i assume i can trust its worth changing
balmy condor
yeah 400 dps is notable
balmy condor
I cant be asked changing all my shit for that
novel drum
i just lost almost 10% haste D:
orchid grove
it‘s okay for m+? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rFvWC1yJbdGM9KiQU8nGgJ
balmy condor
corruptions are a bit of a mess
but yeah
generally
you don't want to use PP major though
should switch into Bote3
also going to need some talent changes
strange python
Are there some optimal stats for exsanguinate, or just based on sims? What I mean is that if I end up getting lots of expedient r3, do the stat weight always go in certain direction?
fleet yoke
what's the min haste cap before moving to crit mast
balmy condor
you don't move to crit mast ever
fleet yoke
ez thank you
balmy condor
crit/maste is your mythic+ setup
fleet yoke
roger that, thank you
balmy condor
np
strange python
Crit+mastery or crit+haste for m+?
grizzled trail
grrr i cannot seem to get a decent log on mythic carapace
any1 got some tips to dm me
balmy condor
my fingers not on the right keys at all
strange python
@grizzled trail that was meant for you I think
balmy condor
100% is
grizzled trail
its not orange or pink
balmy condor
yeah I mean good luck with that
orchid grove
corruptions are a bit of a mess
@balmy condor yes...m+ chest give me TW 1 :/
mental trout
whats the next best shoulder from gorak?
crimson palm
@grizzled trail do the lust with your 3rd vendetta, no reason to extend the fight. Second one needs to be cleaved depending on your side
grizzled trail
my guild just never lusts at the same time its so rip. actually hate carapace
balmy condor
also seems you cast vendetta on a mob and then exsanged a different mob
unreal imp
@grizzled trail not entirely sure, just quick obs as I'm not raiding mythic right now, but that might just be the kind of thing where you need the group to kill it faster. The top 100 parses for sin are kill times as low as 5:01 with the higher ones clustered under around 6:30, closer to 6:00 or below. And a couple pieces of potential gear upgrades that might make a small difference at the high end.
crimson palm
You can always lust after the totem
Mages comboooost at the same time you use 2nd vendetta
So everything aligns nicely
distant lava
it's fine my man
balmy condor
distant lava
I have the worse opener ever
normal olive
Learning stuff everytime i look at this discord
grizzled trail
my guild doesnt let me vendetta on pull
normal olive
grizzled trail
lol
balmy condor
pog 3cp rupture
balmy condor
if your guild doesn't let you vendetta on pull then rip your cd's I guess
distant lava
weapon broke after blood
balmy condor
just de-sync everything
crimson palm
You can tank the boss in the middle with the membrane and focus only on growths
You don't need to hold
No1 will push intermission naturally
distant lava
wdym cds on pull
silent crescent
What did he catch you doing?
crimson palm
Why would you do it, the boss isn't part of all stars anyway
crimson palm
Kekw
royal lantern
why does he care, its drest lol
spice glade
crit/mastery for m+, haste/mastery for raids right?
spice glade
ty ty
wooden knot
hey I made a weakaura for CDs and they're only showing in combat - even tho the load tab doesn't have 'in combat' selected - does anyone know how to make it display all the time?
wooden knot
perfect! thank you
drifting valley
what is better, daggers from the first in mythic or daggers from carapace hc?
balmy condor
sim it
crude bobcat
at this point its whatever you slap expedient on between the two
oh mythic vs heroic
cara daggers will be better unless you slap expedient on the wrathion ones
balmy condor
I mean, mythic cara daggers are a straight BiS
drifting valley
yep, i cant get the mythic daggers from carapace for now and i wanna play the expedient build, thats the reason i ask what do u think is better, if the daggers on hc ilvl or the daggers 475 from wrathion, just to now whats the better option to put an expedient
crude bobcat
^
drifting valley
yep, sorry for the inconvenience and thanks ^^
balmy condor
no problem happy to help
crude bobcat
ofc no inconvenience
pale tiger
main forge
I am at 4/12M and yeah m wrathion sims higher that H cara, even with 6 expedient iirc
balmy condor
OH weapon damage is peanut
MH weapon damage is pretty good
5 ilvl on MH with worse stats won't do a lot, but its still enough to outsim in most situations
kind edge
Hello guys, I really can't be bothered to do arena. So I was wondering any alternative for CaS? I'm only doing 15s anyway, and just heroic raids. So, is maybe VoP the best alternative to CaS?
main forge
oof feel bad now... other rogue in the group has 14 kills on carapace and no second dagger
balmy condor
okay
kind edge
Is Iris that good for m+ in a minor slot?
balmy condor
so in m+ you'd go blood major, breath is required obviously
iris is okay, and then lucid
kind edge
I use lucid as well
balmy condor
in a super heavy aoe you could go pp minor
that's a decent idea
but usually iris is great
gives you more boss damage especially
kind edge
Yeah, Iris will also give me a boost in ST situations
crude bobcat
you can run breath major if you are good at remembering to use it and/or timing it right, i messed around with it a bit
kind edge
Yeah true, I considered flame, but I don't think it's that good
crude bobcat
iris is also really good
balmy condor
flame is awful
kind edge
yeah, it's dogshit
balmy condor
iris is strictly worse than bote imo
breath major is an interesting idea but not worth
crude bobcat
yeah its very average
crude bobcat
m+ is 100% bote
balmy condor
lucid/breath are basically required minors
crude bobcat
even rank 1 is better than anything else
balmy condor
and then I think the decision is either iris minor, or pp minor
iris wins 95% of the time in that question
crude bobcat
could try life force major too
crude bobcat
for raid
kind edge
Alright, thanks for the help. I'll definitely give PP a try for aoe, looks good.
balmy condor
that's obviously with enough exped to drop lucid minor
crude bobcat
ye
quaint vortex
@balmy condor outlaw regularly runs breath major for m+ - would be curious to see some mut m+ sims for breath vs bote/iris
balmy condor
I would really only play PP minor on teeming motherlode or something
anastasia you know how to bait me into simming for an hour and a half and I hate you for it
quaint vortex
that's what I'm here for
crude bobcat
C&S minot as well for m+
quaint vortex
"hey whispyr, I'm curious about this - can you show me the mathz?"
balmy condor
yeah C&S very gud
crude bobcat
oh nvm you want alternatives
balmy condor
that would probably pass up the iris minor
but I'd take strife over PP
let me find someone's sim to hijack
crude bobcat
i run Blood Major, C&S minor, breath minor and lucid minor for m+
quaint vortex
fair warning - breath major requires a lot of microing for it to be really strong, but it does outsim bote for outlaw. most people are still just running bote for comfort. curious to see what the sims show
crude bobcat
im curious ana, would you be prioritizing using it at the beginning of a pack or near the end?
balmy condor
that's what I'm thinking annsie
wet ruin
I believe this was discussed before and breath was not that good for assa, but it was long ago, so idk
crude bobcat
im more so curious about outlaw using it
quaint vortex
you generally try to breath at the start when mob is above threshold and then you try to breath again for free resets
if you time it properly you'll be using first breath above 80% and then using it right before mob dies to get the free reset, but you want to avoid getting the killing blows with it
one other thought I have is that breath would probably sim better in the crit EB builds that are floating around than it will sim in the haste SS builds
balmy condor
I'm not even considering it for haste SS builds
crude bobcat
i wasnt either, but ill try it out
quaint vortex
mmk good 🥰
would you mind pinging me if you do the math on it? back to work but would really like to see
quaint vortex
awesome thx. there's definitely a good chance that EB just does too much dmg in the bote window but I'm very curious
balmy condor
well
Dungeon slice really likes the whole SS Haste Exsang stuff
so Idk
the cleave is just strong
CT does a decent amount
so it wants that over EB a lot of the time
it does like breath major quite a bit
wet ruin
don't actually know why people think haste is so bad
balmy condor
its not bad inherently
its just that EB/aoe suffers hard
so if you're going EB and looking for aoe, you'll have your 3 garrotes and nothing else
but idk
usually its fine imo
umbral rapids
Yeah dslice likes breath 
quaint vortex
haha my fave breath major hater has joined the chat 🤣
balmy condor
I think generally speaking if you go breath you’re opening up for more difficult gameplay for minor gains
If you play it perfectly, there’s a good chance it will actually be better than bote
But the micromanagement requires to pull off a run like that is TAS worthy
quaint vortex
yeah this is exactly what the argument comes down to in the outlaw community btw - I just really want to see the math on it
umbral rapids
I don’t hate breath, it’s crazy good. It’s just so annoying to use
Guess it requires practice idk
I’d mess around with it but snipes in bolstering don’t sound great lol
balmy condor
Mathing it out is crazy difficult
balmy condor
M+ sims are already flawed by design
umbral rapids
Going slightly off topic but that’s the gain breath gives on my outlaw gear
balmy condor
Trying to have that sort of precision is probably unobtainable with current sims
umbral rapids
I honestly don’t know what the apl does
quaint vortex
I think that breath would go up in value with the way dslice sims because I don't think it has any super big pulls where EB BOTE windows would go up in value, no?
balmy condor
Correct
umbral rapids
Yah that’s true
quaint vortex
I don't think it's that hard to get multiple breath resets on a 6 mob pack in ML, but trying to get multiple resets on the triple pack at the start of FH is hell
umbral rapids
Ha i was thinking of that one lol
Or waycrest or something
Then again, I really like bote this week for skittish
And bolstering + breath sounds like a bad mix
Mage combusted, ripped agro of the tank with tricks and my bote wasn’t up
Disaster ensued
solar flicker
breath major is such a meme
quaint vortex
I was able to use it in WS and ToS last night and found that having Breath to kill bolstered mobs was more of a positive than it was a detriment
it was basically just breath - mob dies 2s later - breath to kill bolstered mob, etc
umbral rapids
VoP major is typing
strange python
is there a point where bote sims better in 3 mins? for me rn guardian sims better at 2/3/4/5mins
umbral rapids
😂
umbral rapids
@balmy condor you ignored me earlier. But when vendetta is back up you re-do the opener ? Gar rup gar vendetta build for rup exsang bote 🤔 idk if I’m missing something
balmy condor
You don’t need to build for rip
umbral rapids
balmy condor
Rup
rain obsidian
hey guys why do ppl use crimson tempest on single targe fights? should i use it on single target?
balmy condor
You start at 3cp gar rup with 6, gar, exsang bote
Because haste makes CT pog
You can sim if it’s worth for you
Usually around 60-65% haste character sheet
rain obsidian
so you have that bleed up all the time too?
strange python
is there a way to sim for 2:20-3:10 duration?
quaint vortex
you can probably adjust the duration to that in advanced sim
vital haven
go to the simcraft wiki @strange python if you wanna learn how to adjust fight lengths beyond the options provided by raidbots
strange python
tyvm
rain obsidian
ok thanks but why are people using subterfuge on single target it feels weird isnt master assasin better?
thorny pivot
looking for someone to help critique my sin play on M Nzoth prog
rain obsidian
oh its because it does 80% increased dmg then i get it
quaint vortex
you will still want to sim it btw - MA might be better for you if you don't have the haste/SS/exp gear yet
rain obsidian
what is SS?
umbral rapids
Shrouded suffocation
rain obsidian
oh trait
umbral rapids
Yass
quaint vortex
shrouded suffocation Azerite trait
umbral rapids
The time between two vendettas feels so weird
Or maybe i just got used to not having an impactful cooldown idk
balmy condor
Exsang is more impactful than Tb
umbral rapids
I was hitting a dummy for an hour earlier and damage difference between exsang vendetta window and the rest is abysmal
Yeah i was practicing with exsang :)
balmy condor
And the reason it feels worse
Is mostly because vanish garrotes
Vendetta just jacks them up even harder
umbral rapids
Yeah
balmy condor
The beef comes from empowered garrotes
umbral rapids
The damage during that short time period is actually insane
Even with my halfassed setup
umbral rapids
Around like
130-150k on opener
Then dips down super low
And skyrockets again at next vendetta
quaint vortex
it's ok, at least you can do math for everyone else 🤣
balmy condor
Its true, I can’t
When I do math koji has to come in like an angry teacher with a big red pen
quaint vortex
smacks you around with his ruler a lil bit
balmy condor
umbral rapids
If i beat the other two rogues it’d be funny 
balmy condor
My Cooldown timings are scuffed
umbral rapids
Oh
balmy condor
I live by two mantras.
- Every fight is a chance for improvement, no matter the difficulty
- Fix a mistake every pull
umbral rapids
Now that I can do the opener correctly on a dummy
I’m getting so bored of that raid as outlaw
balmy condor
Except I know how to play sin, but the fight specific stuff gets me
umbral rapids
Now that my average parse is orange i cba anymore kek
balmy condor
Lul
umbral rapids
Well I’ll still play outlaw on vex and hivemind
balmy condor
I can’t stand outlaw
fleet yoke
Why not
umbral rapids
I pretty much only play m+
balmy condor
Cause I don’t like it?
umbral rapids
Sooooo
fleet yoke
Okay, fair enough
balmy condor
Rolling the bones is not fun
umbral rapids
I actually picked outlaw kinda by accident
I was levelling and I got swords
So I switched to outlaw
fleet yoke
I was just curious whispyr
umbral rapids
Next thing you know...
quaint vortex
@umbral rapids next thing you know you somehow became a blue text sub main
balmy condor
He’s blue cause I told him he’s yellow in a sea of red
And he meme’d on me by going blue
balmy condor
Oh is he alli too
balmy condor
You’re getting cancelled kid
umbral rapids
This is horde ?
balmy condor
I Don’t see faction
quaint vortex
top 10 anime betrayals 2020 right here ^
balmy condor
It’s 2020, can’t just do that
little knot
Can anyone link a good m+ assassin setup? with EB and SS
balmy condor
little knot
thanks
balmy condor
no problem
umbral rapids
Yeah highest
balmy condor
and 4k more io rating
little knot
He has so much vers
umbral rapids
?????
umbral rapids
2k actually
balmy condor
whats wrong with that
quaint vortex
damn whispyr bringing the hard flame
quaint vortex
he's likely running the high vers because it's mandatory in high keys to survive
umbral rapids
32 69
quaint vortex
yeah but then everyone will just blame you for being alliance in the first place 4head
you messed up at the character selection screen
umbral rapids
I think that’s a liiiiiittle bit overrated
I was a noob
I picked human cause it was sick in vanilla
balmy condor
anastasia flaming alli while being alli
umbral rapids
The vers is a little overrated I mean
balmy condor
quaint vortex
hell yeah Imma flame the shit out of us
balmy condor
and the vers is def not overrated
umbral rapids
Though I’m still wondering how the DH got one shot by powder shot but I didn’t...
balmy condor
the vers is very good
quaint vortex
questionable
umbral rapids
I have guildies who are stacking all the vers in the world
While playing max 19-20
umbral rapids
For his case it’s fine
quaint vortex
I don't think it's necessary at like 18-20 but for mid 20+ definitely think it's required
umbral rapids
The general opinion of it though
Makes it overrated
Apart from these top guys nobody needs to stack so much vers
quaint vortex
I'm missing vers on a number of pieces and definitely felt it just doing like 19 tyr keys last week
umbral rapids
Apart maybe tanks in 20+
quaint vortex
I do think there is some more value in running it is your healer is weak or you're pugging
balmy condor
but I think going vers isn't wrong
umbral rapids
Well they also don’t know why higher rio people are using vers
quaint vortex
you'll do less damage but at least you won't die
umbral rapids
I can’t die if stuff dies before me
quaint vortex
this is true - people are just copy pastaing
umbral rapids
Most one shot mechanics are avoidable anywau
balmy condor
huge brain
balmy condor
if you don't do m+, you can't be bad at m+
umbral rapids
With protocol
umbral rapids
That’s actually exactly what I told my previous guild after the 25th vex wipe
Heroic
quaint vortex
even if people don't necessarily need the vers before doing really high keys I do think the value of it goes up once you're doing like 19+
15s, don't bother
umbral rapids
I don’t bother
I do 20-21-22
As long as you avoid damage you’re perfectly fine
Avoid avoidable damage I mean
Cause I def got oneshot by brutal backhand 😂
Which is more my fault than not having enough vers
quaint vortex
on something like tyr workshop I'd rather have a few extra % of dmg reduc over a few extra % of dmg personally
umbral rapids
Your first mistake
quaint vortex
or I could just quit being bad and play with elusiveness but ya
quaint vortex
every day is a push day my friend
umbral rapids
True true
Yeah I get your point though
If you think your group can’t handle a mechanic why not
quaint vortex
so ultimately I think the argument could be made for it, it's just that most people probably aren't making that argument - they're just copying what others are doing instead of thinking of the reasoning for it
quaint vortex
he's ready for 29s now 🙏
thin stump
iam pretty sure he runs Vers for EB then anything else it double scales with vers atleast if i remember corectly
quaint vortex
that might be a contributing factor but I'm willing to guess the main reason is that he doesn't want to get one shot by +25 or higher abilities
fervent jasper
Who?
balmy condor
ryfie
fervent jasper
Ryfie says he runs vers because "vers buffs all your damage. Mastery just buffs your bleeds"
fleet anchor
I don't really think I'd bother making a full Vers set just for 20s though.. 20s are totally easy with normal strats and gear, just requires clean play
And of course affix/key combos that don't suck
balmy condor
yeah vers for EB damage is saucy too
fervent jasper
That's what he said
fleet anchor
Like raid geared DPS doing halfway decent strats without too many deaths will time a 20 without any problems unless the key is dumb
fleet anchor
And realistically having higher DPS makes some key/affix combos easier tbh
fervent jasper
That's also why he said he runs vers nav instead of masterful nav
On 1 of his weapons
fleet anchor
Vers is really when you have no other option
Because the scaling becomes dumb
But even some of those 27 logs don't run Vers so it also just depends on the key even at that level
fervent jasper
The only reasoning I've ever heard ryfie give for running vers was the damage buff on non poisons/bleeds.
Such as FoK
fleet anchor
I don't really see much reason to run Mastery over Haste but shrug
fervent jasper
I dont doubt its defensive utility has its place in world first keys but
If you're playing rogue
fleet anchor
People just make the wrong connection. "Person running 29s runs Vers so if I run Vers I can push higher keys." is not exactly how it works 🤣
balmy condor
yeah that's def not the logic
fervent jasper
You have a physical immunity, a magic immunity, a cheat death, vanish, and 40% avoidance every 15 seconds
fleet anchor
Person running Vers on 29s because stupid boss passive abilities one-shot on 29, probably didn't bother running Vers in a lot of key pushes up to that 29 lol
fervent jasper
So stacking defensive stats is a bit less worth
Than for a hunter for example
It just takes a lot more to kill us than for most classes
thin stump
I mean he has to go for the most dmg build he can otherwise why would you bring him(Outsides beeing a Friend or generally a good player) because every groups he enters instantly is in a disadvantage compared to bring the "proper" rogue specc
fervent jasper
Is it though? I keep deferring back to what dratnos said about this
balmy condor
yeah I think its questionable at this point
fleet anchor
I don't think Assassination actually brings less DPS than Outlaw now
It just brings slightly less utility
fleet anchor
Gouge is very strong utility in some keys...
thin stump
I wasnt talking about dmg iam talking utility here
fervent jasper
And their utility advantage depends on dungeon and affix combo
balmy condor
not being tied to vanish is also very strong utility sometimes
thin stump
and there is no key where the silince is better imo
fervent jasper
^^^^
thin stump
which is the main selling point
fleet anchor
Yeah being able to freely do Vanish skips is nice but that can be played around as Assassination
fleet anchor
You will know what you are doing
fervent jasper
That's the 1 big outlaw utility
fleet anchor
In advance
fervent jasper
Gouge is a luxury
Nothing more
But utility vanish is huge
Again I defer to what dratnos said. Outlaw vs sin utility is debatable
thin stump
A free vanish gouge BTE( Stun and Buff) is better then assa can offer
fervent jasper
Uhh
Theres so much to that
For one you didnt mention the AoE slow which is some weeks can be very important
You phrased BtE as a stun to be held for when something actually needs to be stunned
Rather than what it actually is
A dps rotational ability that randomly stuns things inconveniently
Gouge is nice but, that's it. It's nice. Nothing to work the meta around
fleet anchor
Gouge is a luxury? I'm not so sure about that. A lot of tank pulls that I know about on high keys are built around assuming Rogues can easily CC certain mobs that normally can't be interrupted.
fervent jasper
It's the difference in a few cases between having 1 person lock down a mob or 2
That's it
It's nice if it can be 1
But it could be 2
Especially in these high tier groups
balmy condor
that cc would then be used on other mobs tho
fervent jasper
If you need it, the entire comp isnt built around CC
fleet anchor
Not saying there isn't any reason to bring Assassination over Outlaw, I think it's fine or whatever
thin stump
It is because 2 ranged DPS become more and more popular and a Outlaw rogue helps massiv even Ryfie complains a lot because he has to sac offense for utility
balmy condor
I think there's a lot of stark opinions swinging one way or the other
team red vs team yellow is definitely real
fleet anchor
But I don't think it's really accurate to say the utility is "different", realistically Outlaw just has stronger utility for a bunch of keys. But it can be played around anyway.
fervent jasper
So when the confessor casts mending word, just use para on it instead of gouge
And it's fine
fleet anchor
After all, lots of groups don't even use Rogues
slim estuary
anyone got premium raidbots and want to sim my best gear since I can't buy expedient yet?
timid coral
Question about refreshing bleeds: if I have an exsang'd rupture, I should let it fall off completely before refreshing, correct? In that situation, if I have low CP when it falls off, should I refresh insta or build to 5/6 and follow "normal" finisher rules?
timid coral
even if energy capped?
fervent jasper
^
strange python
im a new rouge and i dont know why i am doing such low damage compared to my team on assassination (im lvl 41)
balmy condor
cause leveling is unbalanced
you shouldn't really care about any damage until max level
slim estuary
You shouldn't really care about any damage until you're caught up on gear and max level
royal lantern
rogue also tends too be 1 of the weakest classes in the lvling phase
dmg ramps, low sustain etc....
its lvling, nobody cares about dmg during lvling
give arcane mage atleast 1part of the game where its good
strange python
should i just grind dungeons until legion to lvl up fast?
royal lantern
the trinkets that sim highest for you
balmy condor
vita + plumage/galecaller
gritty quiver
kk
strange python
D::
balmy condor
you can level however you want
slim estuary
What is the fastest way to level right now? However, @strange python, if this is your first play through you should enjoy the game. Don't worry about dps
toxic kiln
can anyone explain why crimson tempest on mythic raden?
balmy condor
because crimson tempest is taken in single target
and its good aoe as well
therefore it's good on mythic raden
toxic kiln
im just realizing this as a 90% player, im wondering what i missed or what it was that changed to make that work our that way.
toxic kiln
ok ok thats the info i was looking for
balmy condor
also if you have a TTK trait
on youre helmet for example, irontide is very common for this
you will never use CT
slim estuary
Hey, so I have 470 cara dagger. I don't see myself getting mythic cara anytime soon. Should I wait to get mythic wrath dagger and put expedient on it or should I just put expedient on heroic cara dagger? I don't have enough expedient to compare a sim rn (it will change on next reset). Hoping someone else can give me an opinion
balmy condor
you can sim your character with the theoretical exped
and then use that to gear compare
drifting cloud
the 5 ilvl will win in MH, but not by alot
slim estuary
ccan you give me a quick ape guide how to do that @balmy condor? I would have thought the crit haste cara dagger would win over a +5ilvl crit vers with full expedient
balmy condor
yeah hold on
slim estuary
ty
warped siren
should I treat CT like I would rupture in my rotation?
warped siren
what if im not using exsang
balmy condor
you still just maintain it
would be interesting to me that you have that much haste and aren't using exsang tho
warped siren
I was just trying it out with 59% haste in a mythic drest pug
slim estuary
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cPxqHYcmWtQahpPFKSVqAjI
Ok so I went an ape way about doing the sim but the mythic wrathion dagger is up by the slightest amount I wonder if my gear was full haste if it would do better
warped siren
I guess I should prob try exsang it was pretty fun back by the end of Draenor
slim estuary
@balmy condor ty for pm but I already had the ape sim going 😂
balmy condor
usually exsang > tb WAYYYYYYYYY before you consider CT
warped siren
yeah ill check it out just haven't had the time to sim it
balmy condor
that link's broken btw papag
rancid bobcat
weapons have a very small amount of stats while wdps is one of the biggest upgrades you can get
so you can toss some stat
its not like when you get rid of haste, it's replaced by 0 stat
while haste is very good its not like other stats arent bad
balmy condor
yeah
like it's probably enough
but I don't think its omegainsane dps upgrade
its like eh
an upgrade
ya feel
balmy condor
yeah its a little bump
slim estuary
What if I had more haste gear, then would the cara dagger theoretically be better
(I am not optimised atm)
balmy condor
probably not
honest needle
if i dont wanna waste echoes for expedient cause i play outlaw for m+ and later raid boss fights. But i do wanna get my sin stuff setup what should i aim for TA ?
I wanna get a sin setup for begining mythic raid st fights and i want to try sin for m+
what corruptions should i aim for
slim estuary
So currently I am puging first 3 cause my guild is on nzoth prog. I am being bought in for the next reclears so I think theres some better rolls than wrath dagger
haughty hollow
@honest needle TA is good option for single target without expediant. A little RNG though. For M+ severe and Strikethrough, heavier on the strikethough.
honest needle
i have alot of strikethrought cause i play outlaw so strikethrough and severe for assasination ?
@haughty hollow
valid torrent
How you guys trigger Logic Loop of Recursion? I try garrote> mutilate> rupture seem not trigger the ring?
haughty hollow
@honest needle yes. Strikethough and severe for M+
balmy condor
@valid torrent there's a 15 second cooldown on the ring