assassination

[distant lava]

GAYMING

[bitter rose]

corruption is a terrible system I think we can all agree. Like, % stat increases is an interesting idea but man does it suck. Glad we got it out of the way though, shame it was the end of probably the worst expansion in terms of systems.

[tropic ocean]

I like corruption

🙂

[balmy condor]

lies

[rigid eagle]

% stat increase is the best thing to happen to gears in a long time while % chance to proc things is the worst

[tropic ocean]

nah syste is fine

[steep plover]

Nah like without IS she out bursts everyone but wot it she beats me sometimes is what i meant

[balmy condor]

you don't like corrupts

[tropic ocean]

only issue was that npc wasnt from start

[balmy condor]

reddit said so

you're not allowed to have opinions

[bitter rose]

Corruption has just thrown everything so out of wack, balance is a nightmare

[tropic ocean]

not that balance was any better without corruption

😄

[royal lantern]

wait, when he says he doesnt like corruptions its a stupid reddit opinion, but when he thinks its fine his opinion is correct

thats not how opinions work

[bitter rose]

fire mage is doing stupidly higher dps than literally anyone else

honestly, balance is actually pretty decent with corruptions

[tropic ocean]

lol

[bitter rose]

but the top classes are just way too far ahead

in terms of dps

[tropic ocean]

Corruption has just thrown everything so out of wack, balance is a nightmare
@bitter rose
honestly, balance is actually pretty decent with corruptions
@bitter rose

[royal lantern]

fire mage does stupid high dmg cus the spec scales insane with outer sources of power, and bfa is full with them

[balmy condor]

reddit says corruptions suck, which means reddit is full of sheeple and blizzsuc people who don't do content

[tropic ocean]

ok

im out

[bitter rose]

I don't think it's a good system thjough

[royal lantern]

and fire is not even the biggest problem tbh

[bitter rose]

it's unbalanced cause of the rng and the massive stacking stats

[royal lantern]

atleast fire needs too work for that dmg with the right gear

BM is just" get 120, be best dps"

fire without %mastery etc...is really bad

[balmy condor]

seeya ausrr

[bitter rose]

i was bottom dps in a dungeon the whole time but I proc'd TD on a pack of mobs twice and doubled everyone else's dps

the 100% crit build for fire looks a lot more interesting but it's just not as good

[royal lantern]

corruption is a testing ground for future mechanics

dont think too hard about it, they always let us be somewhat broken at the end of an expac

[bitter rose]

when I look at dps numbers, if I ignore the egregious specs ((fire, arms, shadow, bm, and destro) everyone else is pretty close in terms of dps, but those egregious specs are just so far ahead of the rest it's ridiculous

[royal lantern]

ye and now think WHY those specs are so strong

take test of might from arms away->dumpster spec

[rancid bobcat]

ive never played this late into an expansion but dont most expacs usually have some crazy outlier classes

[royal lantern]

take litearly everything that came out since 8.2 away from fire->spec doesnt even work

its just a result of different stuf

ye they have

last expac it was ww at the end etc....

[rancid bobcat]

im just like idc prog was over before corruption vendor came out so w/e

[bitter rose]

poor ww, actually at the bottom

[royal lantern]

its ww, you are used too that if you play it lel

[rancid bobcat]

and vendor just brought the stupid super endgame builds early

[bitter rose]

and yet you always want a monk in your raid

[royal lantern]

ye but as a tank

[bitter rose]

or a healer

[sudden trench]

Hows rogue looking for shadowlands, I mean regardless will be playing it

[bitter rose]

sin looks about the same

very small changes

got ambush, got slice and dice both baseline

[balmy condor]

all the specs are going to be fine

sub needs some changes

[bitter rose]

toxic blade has been turned into shiv and made baseline

[balmy condor]

but it's basically the same it is now

[proud horizon]

My question is, is it worth busting my ass to gear up in BfA right now since I’m so late. I feel like everything is about to change as soon as I finally get relatively ok dps

[bitter rose]

remember when Sub was an incredibly toxic funnel spec that was actually broken but then got nerfed into oblivion and has never recovered? Fun times.

Up to you tatsu

like, do what you want to do

[proud horizon]

So gearing up now at this point won’t necessarily benefit me?

😩

[bitter rose]

if you're not actively raiding or trying to do M+ I say don't bother

[sudden trench]

Noone can answer that for you Tat, you decide what you need to do. Still fun to play

[bitter rose]

It's entirely up to person opinion

right now I am getting toons ready for SL

[proud horizon]

I just beat N’zoth like three weeks ago. In LFR 🤦🏻‍♀️

[balmy condor]

pog

[proud horizon]

Ok, thanks guys 😊

[balmy condor]

lfr nzoth

[bitter rose]

I am so sorry

[balmy condor]

lfr nzoth is honestly harder than heroic

[proud horizon]

Yeah, me too

[bitter rose]

LFR N'zoth is literally the hardest boss in existence

[proud horizon]

I was blessed with a badass leader.

[royal lantern]

lfr nzoth is like mythic nzoth

just, your team is full of apes

[proud horizon]

😩

[bitter rose]

It's harder honestly

[brisk delta]

LFR N'zoth is definite proof that LFR is actually PvP

[royal lantern]

bigger apes then the ussual mythic raid

[bitter rose]

it requires consistency

[proud horizon]

The fucking TENTACLE.

[bitter rose]

honestly

I get a bit of flak for saying this

but LFR is an absolute waste of time

[proud horizon]

I don’t have a choice.

I’m a noob player, can’t find a guild to save my life that isn’t too serious or too casual

[bitter rose]

there is pretty much never a good reason to do it, what you get out of it is worthless compared to the amount of time it takes

[balmy condor]

I don't think that's a hot take

lfr is actually trash

its more effort than any of the gear out of there

[brisk delta]

In LFR, the battle is against the idiots who make everything possible to cause a wipe, it should count as PvP

[proud horizon]

If I wanted to get through any content I had no choice

[sudden trench]

Well that's false

[proud horizon]

Is it?

[balmy condor]

you 100% just skip lfr

if you're wanting to gear

[proud horizon]

WHAT

[bitter rose]

M+ is gonna give you better rewards than LFR ever would

[brisk delta]

Go M+

Skip LFR altogether

[sudden trench]

Do m+, start gearing. Get io. Get to know ppl. Join any guild. Clear hc. Join another guild. Prog mythic

[proud horizon]

Oh, ffs

[balmy condor]

even just do normal raid

[bitter rose]

and if you want to find a guild stuff like wowprogress isn't bad

[balmy condor]

if you need the azerite

[sudden trench]

Your choices is actually quite endless

[brisk delta]

Also, i think emissaries and weekly event quest tend to give higher ilvl

[sudden trench]

Saying you had no choice is an excuse

[bitter rose]

Doing LFR is actively wasting time and putting yourself behind

[brisk delta]

And there is visions

[proud horizon]

I guess it is, then

Couldn’t get through one vision on my own - had to be carried.

[sullen pagoda]

just get gear 4Head

[bitter rose]

LFR gives you 430 gear

[sudden trench]

Rofl

[brisk delta]

Even WQ can give you about the same ilvl

[sudden trench]

Do m+, think I saw about 10 ppl say that so far :)

[proud horizon]

I’m iLvl 459 now by the grace of god, but it doesn’t mean shit since my dps is 22k 😂

[hidden bay]

If u are female feel free to dm me, i can help you gearing

[bitter rose]

M+2 gives 435 gear

[balmy condor]

[bitter rose]

with a 440 in the weekly chest

[proud horizon]

What does being female have to do with that

[bitter rose]

LFR is without a doubt a massive waste of time

[brisk delta]

Then it sounds like a case of git gud

[proud horizon]

It is 😂

[bitter rose]

hell M+ doesn't even start to tickle before like 7

[balmy condor]

not sure if ironic joke or actual simp

[bitter rose]

and at 7 you're getting 450 gear

[sudden trench]

If you are 459 with 20k dps. I dont think any amount of gear can fix that

[proud horizon]

^^^^^

[brisk delta]

What does being female have to do with that
@proud horizon He's simping

[proud horizon]

I’m sorry?

[balmy condor]

no

we're sorry

[bitter rose]

simpletons

[balmy condor]

lmao

[sullen pagoda]

I mean ilvl is kinda whatever number

459 can be some random garbage

[bitter rose]

simps, or simpletons, are people who act desperate for any kind of female attention

[proud horizon]

Yikes - Thanks for that

[drifting cloud]

simp doesnt stand for simpleton

lmao

[proud horizon]

Does telling them I have an 8 month old baby fight them off? 😂

[balmy condor]

not the discussion to have

stay on topic boys

[bitter rose]

Simp is a slang insult for men who are seen as too attentive and submissive to women, especially out of a failed hope of winning some entitled sexual attention or activity from them.

anyways yes

let's get back on topic

although I always assumed it stood for simpleton

because you'd have to be one to act that way

[proud horizon]

Mic drop 🎤

[sudden trench]

Moral of the story. Get gear, get gud. Profit

[proud horizon]

Thanks friend 🙏🏽

[sudden trench]

^^

[bitter rose]

next week is actually gonna be a really good week to push M+ on

I don't know if we'll see a +30 but we might

[shy dust]

Depends on if a JY 30

If so probably

[bitter rose]

next week is fortified, bolstering, skittish

[proud horizon]

Signing in now and I’m already exhausted 😩 😴

[bitter rose]

sounds like you might be burnt out

might wanna consider taking a break

[proud horizon]

I mean fuck I’ve been running LFR for two months

Like an idiot, wondering why I’m not getting better

Watching YouTube video after YouTube video lol

[bitter rose]

Well, now ya know

[proud horizon]

Yah

[balmy condor]

youtube videos

don't do that

[proud horizon]

😩

[sullen pagoda]

@bitter rose doubt we will see any big keys since mdi is starting

its next sunday i think?

or next friday to sunday

[bitter rose]

MDI more like I'mma sleep in, thanks

cause honestly watching MDI and sleeping are literally the same thing

[steep plover]

Dog

[drifting cloud]

thanks for sharing

[steep plover]

Bit rude there

What the fck is mdi but

[balmy condor]

mythic dungeon invitational

[steep plover]

I heard about it but never watched it

[balmy condor]

its the m+ tourney

[steep plover]

Oh righr

[bitter rose]

it's the exact same comps going head to head over and over and over

[proud horizon]

Oh lord

[steep plover]

How does it even work

[bitter rose]

just two teams clear a M+ dungeon

[steep plover]

They do the same dungeons and whoevers faster?

[bitter rose]

yeah

[steep plover]

Oh respect

Sounds fun but

Whys it boring

[bitter rose]

but it's literally 3 hunters a prot warrior and a healer, probably a MW or holy pally

[steep plover]

Is it jst the same shit

[sullen pagoda]

its not everyones cup of tea

[balmy condor]

cause its a hot take

[steep plover]

Lmaooo

[sullen pagoda]

i mean you are going to have best comps in every game

theres no such thing as perfect balance

[bitter rose]

I would appreciate some variety at least

[steep plover]

Would be mad if the other team could ban specs or classes like mobas lmaoo

[bitter rose]

that would lead to everyone banning BM Hunter or Prot Warrior

[steep plover]

Ye probs just end up being the same thing actually

How come they dont play outlaw

Isnt it a meta spec

[sullen pagoda]

they do play outlaw in a lot of keys

[bitter rose]

mostly in toldagor

[steep plover]

Makes sense

[sullen pagoda]

rogue just doesnt pump out the hunter numbers in current patch

[bitter rose]

rogue is just there for cloak most of the time

[strange python]

Rogue is more for the control and utility

[bitter rose]

and shroud

[balmy condor]

shroud in this season

[drifting cloud]

shroud in 8.3

[sullen pagoda]

shroud is irrelevant almost now ye

[strange python]

Sometimes I go weeks without using shroud

[bitter rose]

but if you don't need the utility just take a BM hunter instead

[sullen pagoda]

its mostly ability to fully control one caster a rogue selling point atm

[steep plover]

How big is the difference between a top rogue and top hunter

[sullen pagoda]

in what

[bitter rose]

dps

[steep plover]

M+ dps

[sullen pagoda]

depends on dungeon

40-50k on overall maybe even

[steep plover]

Oh my allah

Thats alot ay

[sullen pagoda]

i mean

[strange python]

Numbers wise you will see a difference normally, Hunter is just king right now

[sullen pagoda]

hunters are top of the top atm mate

[brisk delta]

BM hunters don't get punished by mechanics that punish melees or ranged either

[sullen pagoda]

best ST best aoe best cleave dont need to play around them high mobility

[drifting cloud]

it has nothing to do with mechanics

[sullen pagoda]

u name it they got it

[drifting cloud]

they just do more dmg

[bitter rose]

because they never need to stop to cast

or get in melee range

[drifting cloud]

because corruption scaling

[sullen pagoda]

that doesnt matter kata

they just straight up do more damage than anything else

[bitter rose]

Well yeah

[steep plover]

Are they this good cause of corruptions becoming easy to get or?

[bitter rose]

but the 100% mobility is a nice cherry on top

[sullen pagoda]

true

[strange python]

They have been good since the start

[sullen pagoda]

they havent been good since the start

[strange python]

But like everything gear makes you stronger in this patch

[sullen pagoda]

what are u on about

lol

[drifting cloud]

man I love these random facts

[strange python]

Hunters not good before corruotion vendor?

[drifting cloud]

"facts"

[sullen pagoda]

they became good cuz of their scaling with stats and corruptions help with that "a bit"

[steep plover]

Bit dog that even if ur a bit better skill wise ull probs do worse still but

It is what it is

[strange python]

Kek

[sullen pagoda]

hunters were dogshit before vendor

[strange python]

Ok mate

[sullen pagoda]

like straight up one of the worst classes

[drifting cloud]

I think the guy means still 8.3 just before vendor

[brisk delta]

I could swear Fire mages and UH are also top dogs too

[strange python]

Of course I just speak about this patch

[sullen pagoda]

oh i meant

before

corruptions

[drifting cloud]

and yeah well MDI is done on 19s or whatever

[sullen pagoda]

like 8.2 hunter

or earlier

it was weak af class

[drifting cloud]

if they did 25 youd prolly only run 2 hunters

[strange python]

Yes I could have clarified better

I mean in 8.3 hunters have been good

Well bm

[steep plover]

I never realised this at the level im at cause ill usually outdps cunts at my level

I guess the closer u are at the top the bigger the difference will be

Simce everyone is min maxed

[strange python]

You can out dps people for a lot of reasons especially based on the level of content you do

[bitter rose]

MM is just a mess, we don't talk about MM

hell I've out dps'd multiple MM hunters on my BM Hunter (who I main just because the guild currently needs ranged dps) who are like, 20+ ilvl above me

it's sad cause I really loved Legion MM

[drifting cloud]

where did you meet these multiple mm hunters

[bitter rose]

dungeons

[drifting cloud]

are you playing on alliance rp realms or smth

[bitter rose]

Nah, I'm on A52

[balmy condor]

I haven't seen an MM hunter in weeks

[bitter rose]

When I say multiple I mean like 3

[strange python]

I saw one yesterday done 60k overall in a 15 ml

[drifting cloud]

the only MM I saw was my guildies alt who gave up on it after like 2 weeks in splits lmao

[tropic ocean]

What am i witnessing

[sullen pagoda]

guildie made a feral out of boredom

met another feral in m+12 or osme shit

[bitter rose]

I also played feral this xpac

[strange python]

Feral can pump a bit

[sullen pagoda]

i was like thats probably total pop of ferals in 1 dungeon

[drifting cloud]

atleast feral is ok, just nobody plays it

[bitter rose]

literally the only problem with it, because it does decent dps, is that sabertooth is a level 15 talent

[drifting cloud]

meanwhile mm is just asking to get memed on

[bitter rose]

and overall the talents have just ruined it, it's no longer a dot spec

sabertooth makes your rip just become set it and forget it

[strange python]

But this is also assassin discussion

[bitter rose]

agreed, we have gone off topic

[drifting cloud]

dont worry nobody mods here

[steep plover]

Aha ye guys assassination woo

[bitter rose]

although I love that stealth has literally a third the CD of prowl

like... why

[steep plover]

Whens the all rogue nya clear but

[lusty nacelle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[bitter rose]

I like Afenar

use it for every class

[sharp snow]

ey guys

multiple forces gives me agi and highest stat always?

[balmy condor]

use quick/deadly

[winged basin]

when are you supposed to vanish?

only with vendetta?

[balmy condor]

after the first empowered garrotes fall off and then with every vendetta

[winged basin]

so like after the opener exsang falls off?

[rocky ibex]

is better pulse than honed mind?

[balmy condor]

honed mind usually better at the very end, but you'll have to sim

and yes, in the opener its after exsang

[steep plover]

Oh shit ive been holding vanish after opener for 2nd exsang

Im cooked

[winged basin]

Thanks Dad ❤️

[balmy condor]

np son ❤️

[steep plover]

So opener > vanish g/r/g> keep bleeds up spam envenoms use exsang on cd > line up next vanish vend and exsang> repeat opener?

[balmy condor]

opener, vanish when the dots drop, exsang exsang, big lineup

[steep plover]

Is the big lineup the same as the opener?

[balmy condor]

same concept yeah

[winged basin]

I am supposed to wait for exsang rupture off aswell? so I just dont garrote right away?

[steep plover]

Sweet

[balmy condor]

you don't need to wait for the exsang rupture

you just vanish gar-env-gar

[winged basin]

OH ENV NOT RUP DUH

I am dumb

[steep plover]

Do people actually run gcb or is it sim bait

[balmy condor]

GCB pog

[steep plover]

For stand still fights its be fine right

[balmy condor]

yeah I use it on a lot of fights

[steep plover]

I only have a 455 plumage

:(

[balmy condor]

but I also use it cause 475 gcb

and 475 is big

[steep plover]

Ye true

I might jjst spam KR for a 465 plumage

[safe acorn]

what major essense sjhould i be runnning? right now im running r3 BOTE

[balmy condor]

sim yourself

CLF is also good

[proud horizon]

Just ran a +13 guys 😭

Did I die 3x? Yes.

Was I lucky to have badasses who knew the fights? Also yes.

But it was fun 😇

[balmy condor]

hype

[safe acorn]

hmm its an 800 difference from BOTE to CLF

[winged basin]

First time killing Carapace I get shard, 2nd time killing carapace I get shard lol

now I have 2 shards lmaoooo

[balmy condor]

pog

[bitter rose]

who needs a repair bill when you have vanish kek

[proud horizon]

Preach gurl

[strange python]

[steep plover]

VoP vs CnS for m+ boys?

VoP feels nicer to me rotation wise but the vers from strife is insane

[balmy condor]

for minor?

vop can be good

conflict too

why not both :)

[steep plover]

Ye minor

I use breath lucid and strife rn as minors

[harsh abyss]

IV tells me to go crit mastery in m+ but I do 0 dmg on ST with it

[balmy condor]

You won’t do 0 damage

But it’s not omegapog

Correct

Crit stacking is huge for EB damage

You might want to try and run TB instead of exsang

And see if the tb envenom pump with the crit does better for you

[rancid bobcat]

unfortunately assassination is a spec where the gear and stats are pretty much completely different for aoe and ST

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[bitter rose]

could just go play DH, rotation literally never changes

or you could play something fun

[balmy condor]

You mean bm hunter

[bitter rose]

BM Hunter has you hit multi shot

[balmy condor]

Oh wait, nvm, they have to get 1 trait and then hit multi shot

[harsh tusk]

If utilizing the TB build, instead of CT/Exan, what corruptions are priority?

[rancid bobcat]

still expedient

[balmy condor]

Yep

[harsh tusk]

ty

[bitter rose]

I like BM Hunter because it's ranged, but it doesn't feel like it.

There aren't those drawbacks of trying to do solo content and trying not to die

like, on my mage I either kill it before it gets close to me or I'm gonna take like half my hp and eat

especially in visions

[rocky ruin]

For m+ how many severe and strikethrough are you guys stacking?

[balmy condor]

2x severe 3

Rest strikethrough

[rocky ruin]

Ok i got 3 on 3

[balmy condor]

3 severe is probably fine too

Depends on your gear obviously

[ruby ibex]

probably a stupid question, but with 30% crit, does master assassin bring you to 80% (increase by adding 50% to your crit), or 45% (increase by adding 50% of your crit); it doesn't seem to show on my stats page, but I don't have extended stats addon

[balmy condor]

80%

The reason it doesn’t show on your character sheet is cause it doesn’t affect your overall crit

[ruby ibex]

huh... I figured it was the other way, since I have 27%, prepot a potion of focused resolve, and have master assassin, and still manage not to proc 2 crits with my second mutilate... That should be 97% crit, right?

[balmy condor]

Unlucky

[ruby ibex]

lol, super unlucky

[balmy condor]

I’ll look into it maybe I’m wrong

Yeah MA is for sure 50% crit

Not 50% of your crit

[ruby ibex]

Aight, well thanks!

[steel ridge]

MA is pretty weak

[tropic ocean]

no that shouldn't be 97% crit

[steel ridge]

it could work with a full crit setup in dungeons, but then again you will probably have 3xSS and will use subterfuge

[ruby ibex]

It's siming 243 higher for me right now over subterfuge, but my gear is pretty poor https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8k63tNWKgE8ysNDWN2ekf3

[steel ridge]

i found the problem to be, that its rather inconsistent if you are below 50% base crit

[balmy condor]

We also aren’t talking dungeons I think

[steel ridge]

since your mutilate openers may NOT crit and fuck up your opener

[tropic ocean]

?????????

[balmy condor]

Also not sure what you mean by fucking up the opener

That’s pretty ???? From me too

[steel ridge]

well, if you take MA and you will open with mutilate, env, mutilate

[ruby ibex]

Im using whatever corruptions I get, as I get them; though, I got my cloak to max resistance so I have been playing around with sims to figure what I should purchase as I can, and this is the highest sim I've gotten so far with my gear https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bwn7TXwSA1jnjvp5QAXGXY

[steel ridge]

if you have like 40% basecrit and with MA you are at 90% and mut does NOT crit, you are left with only 2 CP

[ruby ibex]

Also, it's mut>rupt>mut psure, not envenom

[tropic ocean]

but you dont open with mut env mut

[balmy condor]

Rank2 worldvein Manor

Major

Oof

[steel ridge]

whatever, a 2cp rupture is dogshit

[ruby ibex]

It's usually 3, but I don't disagree

[tropic ocean]

and thats because you say so?

[balmy condor]

It’s actually just as good as any other cp rupture

[steel ridge]

its still awkward compared to a guaranteed 3cp from garrote

[tropic ocean]

not sure how you can end up with 2 cp rupture

[ruby ibex]

I find the timing of a 3cp rupture throws off my groove, but other than that

[tropic ocean]

that will happen if you play your rotation wrong

[ruby ibex]

The worldvein simming higher than BotE was legit upsetting to me after I farmed BotE

[tropic ocean]

despite with 77%+ crit in his case that will rarely happen

you will just mut mut rup

if first doesnt crit

[ruby ibex]

^^

[tropic ocean]

so your rupture duration is always fine

[ruby ibex]

I started doing that today and found it way nicer

I feel like it's probably wasting some number of CP procs, but it makes the rotation feel smoother

[balmy condor]

anyway

aside from the big ???? happening here

[steel ridge]

fair point

[tropic ocean]

you don't really waste cp

[balmy condor]

why isn't it 97% ausrr

is there some diminishing return shenanigan

[tropic ocean]

because 27+50% is 77%?

[balmy condor]

yeah but the pot

right

[tropic ocean]

the pot doesnt give u instant 20% crit

[ruby ibex]

prepot +20

[tropic ocean]

it stacks

ll

lol

[ruby ibex]

Ohhhhhh

[balmy condor]

yeah I get that

[ruby ibex]

I didn't

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

oh

are we talking the very first mut?

y i k e

[ruby ibex]

no, second

[balmy condor]

lmao that's my bad then

like when you vanish?

[ruby ibex]

Ye

[balmy condor]

the pot should be stacked by then

[arctic walrus]

@shrewd night no mod channel

[ruby ibex]

So just unlucky

[tropic ocean]

mut rup mut g mut vendetta tb vanish

[steel ridge]

what pot are we talking about here?

[ruby ibex]

mb for not being clear at all

[balmy condor]

focused resolve

[shrewd night]

@arctic walrus

[tropic ocean]

not sure its stacked on 7th gcd

but idk

[balmy condor]

I think it is

regardless of it being 97% of not or whatever

point is, MA = 50%

and you got unlucky

[ruby ibex]

Many thanks

lol

[shrewd night]

Isnt 27% superlow crit if you play nonbleed build anyways?

[balmy condor]

he's undergeared

[shrewd night]

Ah

[arctic walrus]

if you do get unlucky that's why there is a 2nd variant to the opener that guarantees at least a 4cp rupture anyways

[ruby ibex]

Literally all of me is super low lol

[balmy condor]

[rigid eagle]

oh hey @tropic ocean, i was actually asking for a bit of advice yesterday before the entire channel got sidetracked with waifu war lol

Since I don't have any EB, I'm thinking about breaking up my crit/severe set to upgrades my haste set a bit.

[ruby ibex]

I just cant get a second dagger to drop for me, it's starting to seem like spite at this point

[balmy condor]

happens

[arctic walrus]

yeah bro same

[balmy condor]

you don't want to know how many weeks I've been rolling carapace

[quiet finch]

yo quick question, whats the rotation when i vanish

[shrewd night]

@arctic walrus just get gud. If I have a second dagger, you should too

[balmy condor]

I've lost count

[ruby ibex]

lol

[balmy condor]

the rotation when you vanish with what

Subt? TB? MA? exsang?

[quiet finch]

usually i just hit garrote twice and mut/rupture

exsang

[balmy condor]

gar env gar

usually

[quiet finch]

3 point envenom?

[balmy condor]

you could gar gar env if you're at 0 cp

[quiet finch]

kk thats what ive been doing

[balmy condor]

but you're losing a tick

by doing that

INEFFICIENT

[quiet finch]

is 3 pt env worth then

[balmy condor]

no

[arctic walrus]

you can mut beforehand

[balmy condor]

yeah

[ruby ibex]

I guess, for those who looked at my gear, assuming expedient 3 is just the best to buy, is any of my corruption tolerable, or should I just be throwing expedient on my highest ilvl pieces

[quiet finch]

or should i just 3 pt then vanish

kk

[balmy condor]

just don't start at 0

[quiet finch]

true

megamind

[shrewd night]

You should be throwing corruptions on pieces you aint looking to replace anytime soon

[arctic walrus]

I'm trying @shrewd night

[balmy condor]

yeah, you got 470 boots with leech

and 475 haste/vers legs

those would probably be fine

I wouldn't put them on the rings for example though

[ruby ibex]

So, cleanse those and throw on expedient?

[balmy condor]

cause they're not mecha rings

and mecha rings kinda huge

[ruby ibex]

So I've heard lol

[balmy condor]

yeah you can cleanse those and it would be fine

the gloves are probably fine too

but that depends on your ability to get higher than 465

[steel ridge]

MA/TB/PB sims 3.000 dps lower than S/Ex/CT for my character, soon i can make the switch to the Bleedheavy Loadout

[balmy condor]

double TB

how does one learn this skill

[steel ridge]

oh i meant PB

[balmy condor]

(I know, is only joke)

[quiet finch]

what is pb tb ma

[balmy condor]

poison bomb

[quiet finch]

ah

[balmy condor]

toxic blade

master assassin

[shrewd night]

Man, the good old days of PB lottery

[steel ridge]

PB is so fucking unreliable its a yoke

[balmy condor]

what, do you not like the tank moving everything out of it the moment it procs?

that's the best part

[steel ridge]

i cri evritiem

[shrewd night]

Ah yes, because PB matters nowadays

[balmy condor]

remember in legion when we all used the weakaura that screamed when poison bomb landed

so the tank wouldn't pull out in m+

that was a fun time

[arctic walrus]

yeah they totally stopped moving once they readit

[balmy condor]

sh

its the thought that counts vel

[patent topaz]

PB doesnt matter in bfa

[balmy condor]

thank god it doesn't

I would've lost my mind

[patent topaz]

I dont think I ran assa for any m+ in legion. Couple of times in upper kara maybe

[steel ridge]

was it more powerful in legion?

[balmy condor]

we mastery stacked in legion, and it increased the damage iirc

so it hit pretty hard

[ruby ibex]

Oh, about the mecha rings: I'm assuming I want the haste proc > nature, yeah?

[balmy condor]

yeah

and behind > 3 spell

[ruby ibex]

Sweet

[tropic ocean]

m+ compared to now assa was not close as good

[balmy condor]

sub tho

back when sub was able to do more prio damage than sin

the good ol days

[tropic ocean]

sub can still do more prio in cleave environment

however in legion dmg was full rng mode of sin

[balmy condor]

yeah was pretty yucky

[low epoch]

Is there a mob count where you stop using Finishers?

[tropic ocean]

y

[arctic walrus]

depends on your azerite

[balmy condor]

I think it's like 9? with 3x EB?

[low epoch]

triple echo yeh

assume you keep up a couple ruptures for energy and just fok forever

[balmy condor]

I keep CT up too

but its probably wrong

[low epoch]

that too

that would seem logical

[balmy condor]

most of the pulls like that are like

super super squishy

droplets on shrine or something

[low epoch]

Been doing some pretty mongo pulls this week.

[balmy condor]

yeah teeming

[low epoch]

TD beach is the only normal one i can think of though

[arctic walrus]

way less than 9 I believe

[balmy condor]

I thought koji said CT on 7

but I think its all kinda feelycrafty

[low epoch]

Definitely having a hard time finding any word on it.

[balmy condor]

I can't find any hard numbers

but I'm pretty certain it was CT on 7

like Fok->CT

[low epoch]

Stop envenoms though?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[low epoch]

Crimson Tempest on multiple targets at 4+ CP when running out in 2s (up to 4 targets) or 3s (5+ targets)

[balmy condor]

where's that from?

[low epoch]

the APL

Tho I doubt anyone's optimized it for giga aoe's

Hm nvm, it defintiely stops envenoming

[tropic ocean]

on giga aoe

u keep the dot up

and spam fok

without eb you just sapm ct

spam*

[balmy condor]

yeah but at what point is it giga

is the question

[low epoch]

Going throuhg the sims, at 7 targets is almost stops envenoming, and 8 it doesnt envenom at all

[tropic ocean]

pretty sure when normal spell target cap hits

[low epoch]

Cast Crimson Tempest on AoE instead of Envenom at 7+ targets when Vendetta/TB is not up

there's the APL line

[balmy condor]

yeah seems reasonable

[steel ridge]

7+ targets?

[balmy condor]

that's what #tc-updates says as well

also vaguely remember that being talked about

checks out imo

[mortal oriole]

Hey guys i just picked up rank 3 Blood of the enemy, in raiding do you hold it for each vendetta or just use on CD?

[balmy condor]

each vendetta

[steep plover]

Whats the difference playstyle wise when using 2 eb vs 3

I need a head rn with ss and eb en im using raden head until i get a piece, using ss and hod

[balmy condor]

no change needed imo

its basically the same thing

just slightly less EB damage

so should be fok->CT most of the time

[steep plover]

Sweet

[muted ridge]

Does Shadowmeld give you Subterfuge?

during fight

[balmy condor]

only SS

on trash in m+ you can meld->true stealth

but not during bosses

[muted ridge]

aight ty

[steep plover]

Im gna do a 17 sethralis

But the bosses are gna be aids cause of tyranical

Shoukd i stick with my m+ build (eb ss)

Or go a bit more haste or something?

[balmy condor]

I go 3x SS, 2x EB, 1x HoD for sethralis

on this week with teeming, maybe 3x EB

[steep plover]

Right

Boss fights take so long tho i hate it

[balmy condor]

the pulls are big enough to warrant eb stacking

[steep plover]

And my st is poop

[balmy condor]

you get that time back on add damage

[steep plover]

Ye true actually that makes sense

[balmy condor]

think about dungeons, you need to kill whatever trash, and the bosses

regardless of your build

that HP amount doesn't change

lets call it 100 mil

[steep plover]

I run torment in a jar and harlans should i swap torment for something?

What would be a recommended trinket

[balmy condor]

so the question should be, what gets me to do the damage required to complete

torment is good

but I would run vita

cause vita

not running vita is a little bit

[steep plover]

Ye thats what i just put on lmaoo

Would u run vita and harlans on all m+ if im just gna run the default ss and eb build?

[balmy condor]

if the harlans is 475 socketed sure

torment is actually good tho

[steep plover]

Its 465 socketed

Oh no 460

I always run it, sims tell me to run it over 455 plumage too

[balmy condor]

probably the socket

go for it

[steep plover]

Sweet

So u reckon heavy aoe would be good to go like 3 ss 3 eb harlans and torment

[balmy condor]

V I T A

[steep plover]

And then not heavy 3 ss 2 eb 1 hod vita harlans?

Oh always vita LOL

[tropic ocean]

just go raid build for sethrallis

[balmy condor]

vita is mega busted (not actually but it is strong)

never unequip it ever again

[arctic walrus]

raid build teeming that's kinda

[steep plover]

My raid build isnt that good rn since im only just switching from poison to bleed

never unequip it ever again
@balmy condor lmao ill keep that in mind then

[balmy condor]

I agree raid build teeming is kinda ?

[tropic ocean]

@arctic walrus teeming temple

such pull many mobs wooow

[balmy condor]

the starts got some pretty decent packs

[arctic walrus]

tyrannical 16s wooow

[balmy condor]

there's the stuff after the snake

[arctic walrus]

plus how else can you pad on conscripts without eb

[balmy condor]

tru tru

[steep plover]

TRUE

[umbral rapids]

Simple question

[balmy condor]

simple answer

[umbral rapids]

With vigor, 4 CP, do you mutilate or finish ?

[balmy condor]

finish

[umbral rapids]

Thought so

Thanks :)

[balmy condor]

vigor finish at 4, DS finish at 5

[umbral rapids]

Yeah

Same logic as with outlaw

Don’t use a builder if you’re guaranteed to waste a cp

Basically

[steep plover]

Unless its tb

[tropic ocean]

idk only eb worthy pull is snake room

rest is 4-5target cleave

[balmy condor]

eb is worth in 4-5 target cleave though

[umbral rapids]

@steep plover true but then it won’t be a waste of CP

[tropic ocean]

how much more worth is compared to raidbuild

ist he question

and is it worth losing boss dps in tyrannical

[balmy condor]

yeah idk

too feelycraft for 3:30am

brain hurt

[arctic walrus]

yikes west coast

[balmy condor]

numbers hard

[umbral rapids]

Good night whispyr..

[balmy condor]

not even yikes west coast

yikes BAY AREA

[arctic walrus]

[tropic ocean]

cuz for 5targets

for me

raidbuild outsims my current m+ build with eb stack

🙂

[balmy condor]

I'm like a 15 minute drive from apple, google, and microsoft HQ

its a big yikes

[arctic walrus]

do you at least work at any of them

[balmy condor]

lmao

[arctic walrus]

not including their food courts

[balmy condor]

you think I'd be here if I did?

[arctic walrus]

are you saying we can't be smart and rogues

[balmy condor]

I'm saying it's 3:30am on a sunday monday

[tropic ocean]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pJHhdcyXR57qrX9aBxYCq8

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f4kp4c1DEmPQRQCJ1u4FES

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bkWYbgYQsmfEwHbCzjDKCR

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/atufQtaQrbd7W9h57wQYxv

pretty sure what build i'd play in tyran tos

[balmy condor]

plz no

too many numbers

but yeah I guess

makes sense

[tropic ocean]

aoe difference might be higher as I don't have all strikethroughs yet

but even then

for dungeons with these low pull counts especially in tyran would always play raid build

[arctic walrus]

how much is bloodlust contributing between the 2

[tropic ocean]

w/o bl difference on aoe is 233k vs 243k

so still pretty minor

even if it was 20k or 30k the difference in st for tyran temple will for sure carry

i played it in td as well

was pretty nice for the bosses

played 3 eb in first pull then went out changed gear and raid build rest

really helps for tyran when u do this boss dps

(last boss td)

[balmy condor]

so on tyran you just raid set basically everything?

[tropic ocean]

not everything

[balmy condor]

not motherlode

[tropic ocean]

so far atal td kr tos ws

and junkyard

might siege too

for stuff like ur/ml/fh im not sure yet if its worth it

maybe if u have a big aoe blaster group

cuz ur aoe is not complete shit

even with no eb

[balmy condor]

ct carry me dad

[tropic ocean]

just not sure if its worth gaining st but dropping major aoe

in that td my overall was 120k

without cannons

while mage did 164k 😄

[balmy condor]

aight well gnite guys

ausrr can take over the shift XD

[tropic ocean]

nah i have boostraid soon and then going out

but vel is here and hes green he can carry all

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[tropic ocean]

gn8

[balmy condor]

Yeah vel fill in

Bai

[umbral rapids]

Night :)

[mighty elm]

wat is assa opener

halp

[tropic ocean]

with or without blindside talented

[mighty elm]

with

[tropic ocean]

pot - mutilate till blindside proc, blindside, rupture, garrote

repeat

[mighty elm]

[tropic ocean]

I was actually hoping blindside would get meta to have somewhat of an execute but

😢

[arctic walrus]

nah i'm going to bed too

7 here

[mighty elm]

elaborate planning is simbait, blindside has always been bis

[tropic ocean]

😄

actually u just need to do some good dungeons with these talents

so subcreation will catch it and ppl will believe it

[shrewd night]

You know 2020 has hit a new low when rise has returned to the fold

[mighty elm]

Ive been playing for all of Nyalotha WDYM

[shrewd night]

Ye, but you disappeared off the discord for a good while

[mighty elm]

Im just lurking

[keen tree]

Can anyone recommend a weakaura to track multiple empowered garrottes as well as ruptures (and CT's)? I'm currently relying on nameplates and i find with too many mobs about i just miss them.

[tropic ocean]

Yeah

Multi rupture garrote tracker or so

In wago

Theres one with just a number but also one that tracks each individual with duration

[keen tree]

I use plater and the one that i found using your search term wants to mess with nameplates. i wonder if that would work.

i'm guessing not

ah i did find others using that term though - thanks i will try them out

[tropic ocean]

Gl

[keen tree]

this looks perfect https://wago.io/zHfygb2el

thanks - i didnt even think of looking on there 🙂

in big packs should you be looking to get three empowered garrotes out and then just focus on fan of knives and CT? i.e. you dont bother with rupture and reapplying garrottes?

[tropic ocean]

u only use empowered ones

After that u spread 4-5 rupture depending on ur haste to sustain energy

Then just spam fok/envenom prio target

[keen tree]

and do you refresh the ruptures?

[tropic ocean]

If u need to

Y

In aoe except for emp garrote bleeds are just energy generator

[keen tree]

ok - is there any situation when you use a non empowered garrotte? i mean imaagine you start with 3 empowered ones.. then you vanish aand apply 3 more.. the mobs are still up when the garrottes run out but vanish is on cooldown..

[tropic ocean]

No

[keen tree]

what about on single target?

[tropic ocean]

Only in st/2 target cleave

For energy sustain

[keen tree]

ahh ok so 3+ targets basically you never use non-empowred garrotte.. perfect. thx

[tropic ocean]

Yup

[keen tree]

found a better WA actually - this one just shows you one icon with the number of garrottes on it.. and another wa with one icon with the number of rupters on it.

[night vale]

Hey, is there anyone that can take a look at my logs? trying to improve and looking for advice, would prefer to DM if possible

[olive lagoon]

@keen tree Link please in dms?? That sounds lit and would like to use when home from work!

[steep plover]

Got a 465 harlans da boiz

460 socketed harlans vs 465 no socket?

[arctic walrus]

Sockets are huge and worth way more than 5 ilvls

[steep plover]

Ye i just realised only 30 agi gain vs 50 crit

[keen tree]

hey @olive lagoon sorry i was afk. Will link them now mate.

so i did LFR yesterday and now i have 3 pieces wtih SS on them which should allow me to play sin now. But they are only 435 ilvl obv. Should I replace them with 445 items i get from emmissary chests even if it means i no longer have ss? I want to do m+ and don't really get to do organised raiding so i need gear to wear so i can earn titan residuum to roll for pieces.

[night vale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p68spB4xiiDSHWbgumzUx8

Any opinions on clockwork heart? i dont have Gorak Tul's yet

[cobalt pelican]

it good

[night vale]

guess we dont worry about lining up the clockwork heart buff with CDs?

[sudden trench]

Why is everyone simming 180 length

[cobalt pelican]

not really, if you have lots of room to move your last vendetta vanish around you can always just force align it with 3min clockwork proc for example but it's not a big deal

[night vale]

i just simmed that cause a lot of our kills are 3~ mins now

and ty 🙂

[long coyote]

Any tips for hivemind mythic battle? Assa rogue, 3SS , exsang build. Failed miserably yeasterday to keep up with other in damage. I do more ST damage than i did yeasterday AoE.

[shrewd night]

Hivemind is a three target fight. The only targets you should be realisticly caring about is both bosses and the ravager.

[tropic ocean]

@sudden trench because

[patent topaz]

just focus on bosses on hivemind

[sudden trench]

Ye no I get that. But the standard is still 5.min correct

[tropic ocean]

idk if there is a standard

I just sim close to my killtimes

cuz idc whats my best gear in 5min when I kill the boss in 3

[sudden trench]

Fair

[long coyote]

So keep up my dots on both bosses nuke ravager and back to bosses

[steel ridge]

Pretty much, dont try to AoE the little stuff aside from the obvious CT... others do it better

[quiet radish]

What seems to be good pants for us? I have the mythic skit ones but they don’t have haste is it wise to just get the 470 LW ones?

[sick oyster]

Vers mastery first boss and u are good

[quiet radish]

we dont want haste? I thought all pieces of gear needed haste

[sick oyster]

We want haste but other stats are good too especially high mastery

And those are the highest ilvl pants or you get some haste stuff out of your weekly cache

[quiet radish]

What's wrong with the 475 macabre pants from mythic skit?

[sick oyster]

If you want to min max pieces without haste they should at least have mastery

[cunning vector]

Imagine playing the spec with 150.000 envenos when sub does 1 miI eviscerate

[shrewd night]

Wonderful contribution to another spec's channel.

[cunning vector]

Lul meh just a comparison...But Sin indeed supreme ;3

[mighty elm]

should akshually just reroll glacial mage

[cunning vector]

o..o

[dire lintel]

when do you use your bote with the exa/haste build? as the first with vendetta and the first exa but after that you could use it once more while vendetta is on cd ?

[strange python]

together with vend

[dire lintel]

so still waiting for vendetta getting of cd?

[strange python]

yes

[dire lintel]

okay thanks 🙂

[cunning vector]

also...a bit of a rant

Shrouded Suffocation is overrated

[silent crescent]

[vast forum]

in what way exactly?

it's literally the best trait we have for almost every situation

[cunning vector]

Ergh...I like the double dose/ twist build more...Plus Shrouded suffocation depends on re-stealthing...

So unless we're in a dung...

Yeeeeeah..

[shrewd night]

[silent crescent]

What

It's already good with just opening and vanishes

More stealth opportunities just makes it better

[cunning vector]

And how many times will u re-stealth and re-pop shrouded in a raid ? -..Twice per boss ? xD

[high nacelle]

and it's still optimal

[silent crescent]

For a skill that ends up being my highest dmg source?

Thats totally fine lol

[cunning vector]

I still get top dps without it so..

[shrewd night]

That says literally nothing about how good a trait is

If we were to rate traits from how good they are depending on how high on the dps meter you are..

[silent crescent]

Maybe i should get rid of my plumage trinket bc i can only use it a couple times per fight

[cunning vector]

Well it does actually..When you call it the best trait for a spec it is logical that not having it or stacking it means you cna't pull up good shit 😛

Especially when 90% of sin rogues have it..

[shrewd night]

So if you are in a hypercasual guild doing heroic

Does that mean SS is good, or no?

[high nacelle]

just because it is top does not make every other choice bad??? but it's still optimal

[brisk delta]

SS makes a somewhat decent CD (Vanish) into a beastly CD

Specially if you can garrote more than 1 target during stealths

[cunning vector]

If you can beat other rogues equally as geared as you without it is...it means it makes no massive diffrence..

[shrewd night]

Just because someone is equally geared as you doesnt mean they are as good as you, or vice versa

[cunning vector]

mean if are equally as geared and in the same guild which has an established raiding group ti kinda does..

[shrewd night]

[silent crescent]

??

[cunning vector]

Cus most of the progression you do is with that group :^)

[shrewd night]

No.

[cunning vector]

yes

[shrewd night]

Absolutely not.

[brisk delta]

Beat at what? Details DPS meters?

Or logs?

[cunning vector]

dps ofc

[shrewd night]

Noone cares about dps meters lmao

[brisk delta]

So. Your info comes without knowledge of circumstances.

They could've been doing awul rotations

[shrewd night]

@silent crescent Bro, I did mad damage with IS without using SS POGGERS AMIRITE DUDE??

[silent crescent]

[brisk delta]

Or have taken sub-optimal gear, enchants, essences or corruptions

But DPS meters won't tell you that

[sullen pagoda]

@cunning vector so if you are playing with bad players who dont put effort in their class that validates you not putting effort in yours cuz you are beating them

[brisk delta]

Long story short: Being higher in your raid DPS meters with a certain build =/= that build being the best

[sullen pagoda]

you are in for rude awakening when you join a guild with actual players

[strange python]

^SUP YALL

😉

ive got a big question

[cunning vector]

okie ;3

[strange python]

;3

is there someone / some people that play the bleeding build ? i want to know what traits you use

[shrewd night]

[strange python]

just the skill traits not the passivs

[sullen pagoda]

imagine if there was pinned messages

[cunning vector]

You mean..extrasanguinate ?

[sullen pagoda]

with like guides or something

[strange python]

😉

i am asking about the personal experience

not GUIDES

[shrewd night]

What do you mean personal experience, are you high?

[cunning vector]

No idea...Never tried extrasanguinate tbh...

[wet ruin]

@cunning vector top logs using tentacles, must be better than those SS users, amirite

[candid cairn]

hey guys.
Noob rogue here.
I know we have some pinned messages (guides and other thinkgs).
But we have some guide for beginners with rogues?

[shrewd night]

Yes, in the pins?

[cunning vector]

Well..Yeah it is just pretty sad to see people just discredit other people for "hehe rude awakening"...When..least on your server your pretty high end :^)

but oh well

[candid cairn]

you mean this @shrewd night ?

[sullen pagoda]

jesus dude you gotta be a troll

[cunning vector]

Well if you say so ;3

[wet ruin]

link your logs, prove them wrong my man

[shrewd night]

@candid cairn That would be it

[sullen pagoda]

i doubt we are gonna see that link

[viscid cloak]

yo, for the Exag build, with triple SS, are the mechagon rings considered BiS?

[shrewd night]

'This trait is bad because I dont like it'

@viscid cloak Yes

[cunning vector]

I never said it was bad

[viscid cloak]

awesome ty

[sullen pagoda]

"im high end on my 1k pop rp server"

big

[cunning vector]

I said there are other viable builds that can do just as good..

And..If you consider Argent Dawn 1k pop

Sure ^^

[crimson palm]

Just as good isn't top end

[cunning vector]

that litteraly makes no sense but aite ;3

[sullen pagoda]

i mean i dont know if id say its just as good

[wet ruin]

its not just as good as well, but I still have hope for those logs

[sullen pagoda]

the regular DD build does less ST damage, less cleave damage, its less versatile and depends more on boss uptime

sure you are going to see some of them in top logs when some memer plays rank 50 tentacules

thing u dont see is his blue logs 5 weeks before that cuz tentacles didnt proc

[cunning vector]

like me :3

[sullen pagoda]

I mean u still didnt link us the logs

[cunning vector]

Annsie's asking for your logs not mine tho xD

[wet ruin]

nah, I did ask for yours 😄

[sullen pagoda]

he was asking for yours mate

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/34355513 this are mine if u want them

🙂

[crimson palm]

inb4 u guys all suck padders

[umbral rapids]

Jesus that’s disgusting @sullen pagoda

Gz

[shrewd night]

Let the backpedalling begin.

[dark crag]

A sub rogue is r2 on carapace that spec must be really good

[wet ruin]

I don't pad

[viral trail]

@sullen pagoda do u ever go to the toilet aswell? xD

[sullen pagoda]

same especially on dresta

orange log grey boss dmg parse

didnt padi swear

[wet ruin]

my man

[sullen pagoda]

@viral trail wdym im a raid logger xd

friends meme'd me when his alt pvp only rogue higher neck lvl than me

[viral trail]

I can see that 🤪

Well pvp only doesn’t get u anywhere nowadays