alright, is there a gear recommendation list on what i should get?
cause i don't get into mythic whith that gear
#assassination
humble tiger
balmy condor
dungeons 3x SS 3x EB azerite with crit stacking
raids you should go 3x SS and then HoD/clockwork/bbi for the second ones
humble tiger
can you write out the names? i don't have the english shorts (german client)
balmy condor
shrouded suffocation, echoing blades, heart of darkness, clockwork heart, blightborne infusion
double dose with master assassin talented is also good for low gear levels
exsang won't be better until you get higher gear levels and some expedients
humble tiger
it actually simmed better that's why i put it in
but that is a good starting point
i can use the Droptimizer on raidbots to see what dungeons are best right?
balmy condor
yes
humble tiger
sweet.
thanks a lot for taking the time and writing that stuff out 
cunning geyser
hey this is my sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3PG3NtNjrju1t85v53n8Fd
Do you think crimson tempest would pull ahead on raden even though it doesnt on Single target
?
sweet rampart
Is there a reason in particular that raidbots is telling me to switch to mastery when i don't even have enough haste yet to switch to Crimson tempest? I thought i was supposed to be just throwing an ungodly amount of haste in?
balmy condor
switch to mastery how
masterful nav? masterful 3 corruption? mastery trinket? mastery rings?
sweet rampart
mastery ring enchants and 1 mastery gem
balmy condor
for like 100 dps increase probably
not worth imo
too much min-maxing for not enough gain
@cunning geyser you got an irontide helmet as well
that's got TTK, which devalues CT
poison bomb is probably fine
sweet rampart
yeah it is a 245 dps increase, not much at all, just was curious. Seemed weird that it was telling me to start steering towards Mastery, i am at 68% haste atm
balmy condor
yeah
that'll happen
you'll get random moments where having 100 more mast will just outscale the 100 haste you're getting from it
stats are janky
I like to call them micro-breakpoints
sweet rampart
kk, ill stick to just stacking haste and waiting for it to tell me to switch to CT
balmy condor
cause they're not real breakpoints
but they exist randomly on every character
just to add confusion
sweet rampart
WHat wep enchants are most of you using? Gale and Quick?
mellow pier
^
balmy condor
neither one is inherently worse imo
mellow pier
other rogue in my guild uses masterful instead of deadly
balmy condor
and the difference is minimal
mellow pier
sims diff for both of us
sweet rampart
hmm, i find wep enchants hard to sim cause there are like 3-4 we could use in each hand. So i always blow past the iterations cap lol
balmy condor
I find weapon/ring enchants and gems almost useless to sim
just throw haste gems into your raid set and go quick/deadly
and call it a day
don't bother thinking about it ever again
sweet rampart
@balmy condor do you use a agi gem? Or ignore that too and just stack the secondary stat?
maiden root
will I need to focus on a completely different set of gear for PvP and PvE?
harsh sphinx
yup
maiden root
is there a good guide out there for PvP? following the guide here for PvE
maiden root
awesome thank you didnt even think to look there
harsh sphinx
np
torpid sparrow
elfin saffron
hey could anyone if they got time look at my log and see what im doing wrong.https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gABzZLxCjXR826Pr#fight=37&type=damage-done&source=21
elfin saffron
so i should just use it more think im trying to hard to line it up wiht cds
balmy condor
opener, exsang, exsang, big burst
should be 4 exsangs including your vendetta/vanish lineup
your vendetta/vanish happens at the right time
but you hold onto exsang for like 75 seconds
which is omega yikes
paper kelp
also isn't 74% CT uptime a bit low ?
balmy condor
yeah the CT uptime was the next point
balmy condor
nah looks pretty decent otherwise
elfin saffron
okay thanks
balmy condor
I don't assume you sim much higher than like 92k anyway
so its not like you sim 90k and are only doing 60k
elfin saffron
i sim 102k
elfin saffron
idk i feel like my opener and early mid dps is good but then it just falls like 45ish sec before 2 vanish
to shit
balmy condor
the vanish did seem a little close
but idk, I think that's fine
oh
wait
hold on
HOL UP
the fuck
paper kelp
exsang before the vendetta vanish
quasi pewter
balmy condor
Y I K E S
paper kelp
big big yikes
elfin saffron
so in 2 vanish i should just do opener rotaion again?
balmy condor
you should vanish before the exsang
you exsang'd unempowered garrotes
and vanished after
that's omegabad
balmy condor
I mean, you probably have garrote ticking beforehand
so double garrote is kind of a dead gcd
but yes, garrote 6cp rupture exsang
repeat the opener logic but with vanish
empowered garrote, full rupture
vendetta in there
exsang into bote
distant lava
distant lava
ideally you refresh CT before too
night vale
CLF sims so much better than blood for me, but looking at logs not a lot of people are playing it?
Is blood just better for most bosses due to the splash damage onto secondary targets?
balmy condor
not 100% necessary
elfin saffron
okay yikes from me there 
balmy condor
yes bote has the cleave
but CLF also has the janky pre-cast that I can't seem to get to work
and I hate it
solar flicker
clf is bait all my homies hate clf
night vale
alright 🙂 thoughts something like that, ty for the advice
elfin saffron
one more question when i have time for evenom spam do i multi for 6 cps if im on 5 or just do a 5cp eveonm
elfin saffron
okay well thanks for the help big yikes from me there
night vale
Hmm, CLF is simming 1.5k higher for me. would it be worth for pure ST fights?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/apLFBeo2zta5bY1nutdZhZ
thin gate
garote rupture garrote multilate rupture vendetta (versa trinket) Exsang Multilate Multilate BOTE Envenom into Vanish Garrote Garrote Rupture ?
balmy condor
no
vendetta then mutilate rupture
exsang into bote
openers in pins
read those
fleet whale
I'm kind of in an odd situation
naive lynx
is the exsanguate haste build the strongest build for assasin?
fleet whale
sitting at 25 corruption currently, so i kind of have to by an exp 1
just so i don't go below 25 next reset
balmy condor
exsang is strongest
naive lynx
but exsang only works well with a lot of haste, huh?
balmy condor
yes
fleet whale
when is GW coming to the vendor, is it next week
fleet whale
cause, im going to drop below 25 corruption next week
and i need something to put on my weapon, lol
but i might just put exp 1 on it
spark olive
What's the best opener with use of plummage as exsan build?
naive lynx
I can still use mutiliate when in Subterfuge window right?
I don't have to like "wait it out" so i can use it..
balmy condor
no, subt doesn't lock you to use anything
naive lynx
so what's the benefit of it? gurrote dmg?
shut garnet
and the ability to multi garrote
naive lynx
right
balmy condor
subt is huge garrote damage
naive lynx
do we use it in the exsang build?
paper kelp
balmy condor
would be mega troll not to
sick oyster
bro have you read anything about the buiold
fleet whale
yes you use subt in the exsang
sick oyster
like that question has to be trollings
naive lynx
I'm sorry for trying to gather the most precise information I can possibly aquire from different people
No need to be a dick.
paper kelp
its not being a dick
naive lynx
jesus christ
paper kelp
but questions like this you can: 1. read the guide and then figure out
why subterfuge is used
naive lynx
Alright man, if you don't feel like being helpful, don't write anything.
I didn't ask for "opinions"
balmy condor
the guide is in the pin
hidden bay
Just Hit up the Guide my friend. If u have any questions After That, Hit me up in dms
paper kelp
its more about the same questions being asked everyday when someone wrote a guide that has probably all the answers you're looking for
naive lynx
No, I've read it several times my dude 🙂
I've seen several videos on the internet, and I came here because people told me that what I've seen was a complete bullshit.
So stop being a fucking jerk, and if you don't want to help, go on with your life
scarlet sequoia
warcraftlogs.com, pinned guides etc etc
look at it
questions after if you dont understand what youve read
pretty simple
theres a reason for the pins
naive lynx
I constantly have it open 🙂
scarlet sequoia
so whats your problem
naive lynx
I was just asking about a mechanic that wasn't elaborated in the guide, and since I haven't played Rogue for a while I didn't know. Thats all.
No big deal. Have a great night
scarlet sequoia
talents are in the guide
novel drum
i havent seen anyone not use subt and even 1 SS
fleet whale
i still use MA cause i'm a rebel
tropic ocean
fleet whale
yes i used subt in BoD with some mix of DD and SS
little knot
is it normal that Harlans sims higher than vita both 465 for haste build?
drifting cloud
vita buffs your party
and if you dont have shitloads of exp and one has socket, then yes its not than unusual
little knot
both has no suckets and im running 6 exp 3 atm with 60% haste
balmy condor
vita baseline isn't actually that ridiculous
harlans has beat it here and there depending on person
but you're forced to run vita because sims don't take the group haste into account
and its actually pretty strong
drifting cloud
yeah when I sim trinkets I just lock vita because I dont care if something outsims it, the party buff is worth way too much
balmy condor
yep
young vessel
idk dude im playing that build since today
shrewd night
solar stone
lol
balmy condor
guide.... in pins?
shrewd night
This is basic stuff
shrewd night
If you cant be arsed reading a guide, why would we take the time to analyze
balmy condor
karmic tusk
Damn ya’ll ruthless
young vessel
any truers 😢
shrewd night
Ruthless? I dont like wasting time 
shrewd night
AYY WHISPYR
balmy condor
you get the point
young vessel
balmy condor
like to each of us right, our own time is the most valuable
cause its ours
so if koffing asks me for help, I'm happy to help cause I'm like that
but if koffing is trolling me
my time is more valuable to me, so he's dead to me
<3
shrewd night
little root
when will guides be updated with the 34% crit breakpoint? 
young vessel
oh its a link
paper kelp
must be trolling
little root
shrewd night
If you cant even take the time to read the pin, why are you here.
solar flicker
damn bro don't call out 75% of the discord like that
unborn otter
Is there a way to sim different races?
shrewd night
Yes, there is a race line in your sim, change it to the race you want to test
If its a doubleworded race, underscore between them
unborn otter
oooh, Thankyou
scarlet sequoia
are they
balmy condor
last I checked ye
scarlet sequoia
nelf is very far ahead of everything else
troll is very far ahead of everything else
scarlet sequoia
ss traits work with meld ye
topaz axle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
I mean yeah troll was ahead but how much is it for you?
compared to something like belf or orc
scarlet sequoia
im belf and troll is 800 ish dps higher
broken oriole
Can double dose still compete with shrouded suffocation?
balmy condor
depends on your definition of "compete"
shrewd night
Kinda
unborn otter
Troll outsims my Vulpera by 1k lul
balmy condor
vulpera yikes
but raz sims
I'll make sure to get them in my search history and reference them every second I get
scarlet sequoia
🙂
shrewd night
Troll is a loss for me wtf
sick oyster
raz
balmy condor
maybe you don't have 34% crit
scarlet sequoia
idk i cant find a mog i wanna use
scarlet sequoia
in the middle of getting druid t3 rn so ill use that for a bit when i have it all
scarlet sequoia
so tired of all leather mogs tho
young vessel
ok now im poppin
THANKS
btw at what haste % is it worth to use CLF
SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM
balmy condor
CLF is bait
paper kelp
haha golem go brr
fleet whale
is CLF vs BoTE like Iris vs BoTE in the outlaw channel?
paper kelp
how is that ?
balmy condor
sims ridiculously high, but only usable on single target fights
and imo, its jankier cause you have to precast it for full effect
fleet whale
it's also a pet
balmy condor
yeah
fleet whale
which is lame as a rogue, and can sometimes do weird pet things
paper kelp
fair
fleet anchor
I mean, imo it is none of those things lol
balmy condor
I hate it
fleet anchor
Pre-cast vs post-cast makes almost no DPS difference
And CLF is basically just as good on AoE as blood lol
balmy condor
I thought it was like 0.8%
fleet anchor
It's 0.2
strange python
how is CLF like IS
fleet anchor
CLF is basically good on virtually every fight and every fight length in the raid.. Blood is fine too, people are used to it. And it's close in performance so whatever.
IS is trash because it's horrible in every possible way 😛
balmy condor
CLF is like IS because I hate it and It does single target and fuck CLFD
fleet anchor
I feel like the argument that CLF "sims well but isn't actually good" is just not based on anything other than people wanting to look for a reason to feel better about their choice to use Blood and take a 1-2% DPS hit on some fights.
Unless you are very very specifically pulling 2:40-3:00 bosses exactly, CLF is going to be equal or better than Blood on almost every fight given identical circumstances. But that's more than close enough that it doesn't really matter if you want to use one over the other.
fleet anchor
When all of our AoE damage in raid is hasted (DoTs and CT) and the CLF pet does AoE casts, I'm not sure I would say it's only ST either. lol
balmy condor
I didn't think it was that good
fleet anchor
Blood AoE on-use doesn't exactly do a ton of damage
balmy condor
I mean
fleet anchor
The fact that it happens to hit AoE doesn't specifically make it good on AoE
It just makes it AoE
paper kelp
also the higher your neck gets the more clf scales
balmy condor
it does pretty good I feel like
grave trail
are you guys cloaking first wrathion burning cata
fleet anchor
I'll support people playing whatever they want when it is this close, but that goes with the caveat that both are definitely in the same realm for parsing
night vale
This is good to know, i was going to try out CLF in raid, it sims 2k higher for me than blood :)
People said it was bait, but i really didnt understand how it was :p
tribal obsidian
people said it bugs out on pre cast so don't use it but I just dont precast it and use it once in combat
balmy condor
and I thought that it was basically required to precast
fleet anchor
It isn't no
balmy condor
good to know
tribal obsidian
I just use it based on I think it was Raz's guide
fleet anchor
It is definitely the case that fight lengths in the 2:40-3:00 range (before the 2nd cast) do favor Blood somewhat. However shorter fight lengths start to favor CLF again, and 3:20 lengths are really large benefit for CLF. So knowing your lengths makes sense.
fallow breach
Its just that it feels
Bad to just have an add deal dmg for you
And not something part of your rotation
fleet anchor
yeah I mean I totally get that
lost horizon
they're close enough that you can get away with either one though
that's the point i think kojiyama's trying to make
fleet anchor
Like I said, I'm not gonna rag on someone for using Blood, I definitely know people prefer it and have a lot of muscle memory for it or whatever
I personally run CLF on basically everything with an Expedient setup, and Breath a lot on Outlaw.. so that's just my preference for the other reason, since I've never really had much attachment to Blood. 😛
tribal obsidian
the whole crit aspect of bote makes it a little more prone to rng as well no?
fleet anchor
I am running Blood minor nowadays though
tribal obsidian
me as well
fleet anchor
IS is bad in terms of sims for a whole host of different reasons. Primarily that: a) It's stupidly RNG even in the best of cases, just like TA. So boooo. b) Most people sim 5 minute default lengths but most fights are way shorter now. c) Adds play into the RNG as well, although don't affect the top end.
Knowing what DHs think about having IS as their only good option, it's not a life I recommend for anyone 😉
Although, realistically speaking, TA and IS are still the top parse potential if you really enjoy 9/10 of your pulls being garbage. lol
shut garnet
IS probablt more so since it’s hasted rppm unlike TA
which is just random and nothing affects its procrate
fleet anchor
TA has some insane top-end since procs never get wasted but IS is almost certainly the highest top-end yeah
iron slate
Im doing more casual gameplay nowadays so in terms of doing whatever i want is it better to go the crit build? I have plenty of echos to buy some servere III off the vendor.
steep plover
What does pre casting clf do
fleet anchor
Nothing really just lets you ramp a few more stacks of the buff before your first Exsanguinate
balmy condor
yeah
steep plover
I started to use it but people said it was sim bait so i switched back to bote
hollow ether
does anyone have experience using CLF on mythic nzoth
balmy condor
turns out actually fine
wet ruin
@fleet anchor can you sim a certain fight length with variance only going down
balmy condor
just sim where the top variance is the max
like the length+20% = the max fight length you're want
astral tiger
So if I'm trying to a decent parse on shad, do i take the infinite stars or my expedients?
astral tiger
Well I feel like infinite stars always sims much higher, but rarely accomplishes such a task
sudden crown
Highest single target sim, please @ me
balmy condor
yes
IS is rng like that
also what do you hope to achieve with the sim
@sudden crown
tribal obsidian
highest ST sim will just be an IS expedient build i think
probably only useable on shad lol
balmy condor
I'm honestly just curious what information he thinks he's going to gain for that
steep plover
For clf, do u just use it off cd or are there times where u hold it? Idrk how it works
balmy condor
You would try to line up with cd’s
Chances are you’re not in a fight longer than 6 minutes
So you’re only getting 1 cast to do with what you want
steep plover
U underestinate my guild LOOOL
balmy condor
Yikes
steep plover
Yerp
balmy condor
Then you would on CD
wet ruin
whats the point of 90 corruption sims though
balmy condor
And repeat the “hold for cd” logic for the second cast
90 corruption sims are where we’re gonna be at towards the end
vital haven
to weirdflex
steep plover
Might just stick with bote since its safer and feels more fun
vital haven
and also because winbagio asked
balmy condor
Yeah
wet ruin
I mean, when we get there, sure, but now its kinda padded
balmy condor
Basically that tho
wet ruin
he asked, but its unrealistic
balmy condor
He didn’t specify that it needs to be realistic
He wanted to know the highest
And that’s pretty high imo
vital haven
i mean
balmy condor
Yeah
wet ruin
you can put clockwork on shoulders
vital haven
3 min IS build is the endgame
vital haven
im buying and IS 3 this week
wet ruin
you can put my apl change that I posted to give you an extra 1k dps
balmy condor
I should’ve clarified
Why would I give enough of a shit to go through the work to do that
wet ruin
to get the best you can 
vital haven
ill prob do it at some point
i wanna know how high i can get
but i think IS3 with expedient is def the basis of it
regardless of fight length
unless we go super short
wet ruin
3 months from now you will have shorter fights as well, so might as well go with that 😄
on a strictly < 3 min fights bote seems to be better so you can probably go with that as well
cobalt pelican
that's pretty awful
odd heath
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
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wet ruin
now get some neck levels
but for the earlier discussion about bote vs clf, for me bote is better from 2:30-3:10 fight lengths
strange python
@vital haven how much Crit and haste you have?
sudden crown
OKay
I run sub 60 corruption
And current have IS 3 and the rest expedient to get me to 50 corruption
@balmy condor and not CLF, i use BoTE
and I sim around 98k
but im looking to drop IS in exchange for all expedient and severe
but wonder how much i need for that to sim higher
balmy condor
You’re probably not going to be able to drop the IS
Cause it’s IS
IS will sim huge
But idk why you’re considering severe for single target
I don’t remember severe being a part of single target corruption setups
It’s been a long time
novel sky
I got a question from a friend. Why most assass on the logs are using Shrouded Suffocation on ST over Double Dose, Nothing Personal or Twist the Knife?
balmy condor
Because it’s stronger
The Exsang build is simply better than DD now that we can stack exped like crazy
novel sky
Ok, thank you for the input.
balmy condor
No problem
drifting cloud
its not better by some insane margin tho
so you still see good non bleed logs
but I guess alot of them are just TA highrolls
balmy condor
Yeah
Exsang smacks DD by a pretty healthy margin from what I’ve seen
Couple thousand for sure
At least for most people
But even without that, the cleave you get on raden adds for example
Is just too big to not take it
fleet anchor
Yeah I mean
In that comparison, the RP setup is only 1.9% behind the IS setup
Not really very extreme of a difference tbh
Feel like IS has enough RNG I would just want to avoid it for that small of a gain
Adds like 5% more variance to the build
But the max iteration DPS is like 11k higher
Just super rare
indigo mulch
Does haste work in m+ with crimson at high haste? Or is crit just straight up better with EB?
slim estuary
Exsang sims higher for me but currently I only have 1 expedient (saving tokens for good pieces). Should I really be running it?
balmy condor
But In KR and that kinda dungeon, people have been known to run exped setups
indigo mulch
Thats what i thought but like. Is there a point where ct actually is good for dungeons compared to eb/crit?
quiet finch
yo i have like bis azerite, full expedient, full everything but im only simming 93k
how do i determine what to change
balmy condor
How many sockets you got
quiet finch
only a few, outlaw main
balmy condor
Do you have haste on basically every piece?
quiet finch
1 piece that im missing
arctic walrus
well you do also just have 1 socket
balmy condor
Rip me on mobile
indigo mulch
Random question, is ct actually good on ST? 😮
balmy condor
Vel pls
quiet finch
no mythic drops sadly
quiet finch
i do have 475 bracers i can use but i need to wait for exp 3 vendor again
arctic walrus
then you can't get much better than this outside of sockets
balmy condor
ty smexy
arctic walrus
mythic azerite and 485 daggers are huge
slim estuary
Well I thought the exsang build was only good with haste for bleeds?
indigo mulch
God i did not know that, i honestly thought bomb was better for st o:
balmy condor
Yeah, you have 1 exped right
That’s haste
CT becomes better with high haste levels
drifting cloud
well azerite matters, and for all we know you could be simming your non exsang build wrong
its not just haste
balmy condor
Yeah
balmy condor
It’s unreadable for movie
Mobile
If I want to see the gear you’re wearing, I literally just open links to wowhead
drifting cloud
when you link top gear we can also see what gear you have in bags
balmy condor
Doomed
balmy condor
Yeah I memorized all the icons
arctic walrus
okay asmongold
balmy condor
Lmao
quiet finch
LOL
indigo mulch
so the opener would be g1 rup g2 mut ct exsang etc?
arctic walrus
opener is in the guide in the pins
balmy condor
Yeah @slim estuary what’s wrong with that (aside from no vita obviously)
strange python
Do you let Garrote and rupture drop off during Exsanguinate?
indigo mulch
I don't have enough hate for CT to be good acording to sims 😄
so i don't have to worry about it yet. -120 dps!
haste*
arctic walrus
you're also many expedients behind
idk your echo situation but you can probably pick up some severes if you want this week
indigo mulch
yeah i need those exp3 😦
drifting cloud
comes back in 12 days, farm farm
balmy condor
13
indigo mulch
I mean its only a -125 dps loss doing CT instead of bomb, i might aswell get used to running ct instead i guess.
strange python
@balmy condor ty man, after that vanish ? To apply empowered Garrote
balmy condor
It’ll be better on anything 2 target+
Not gonna lie dude I have no idea what I told you xD
Remind me what the question was
Oh that
yes
In the opener
slim estuary
I get a stupid amount of dps increase by putting my exp 3 tokens on shit pieces https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kR9RiT2U9YeFjVqwa25eUi
indigo mulch
2 targets tho o:
balmy condor
Wdym 2 targets tho
drifting cloud
the sim is 2 bosses
indigo mulch
=X
drifting cloud
yeah I mean its 111k sim with mediocre gear
indigo mulch
Why you hate on bote? 😦 Bote is bae
balmy condor
Bote won’t give you big sims
drifting cloud
not hating, just some people link clf sims
quiet finch
these sims take long af lol
indigo mulch
Dunno i just enjoy bote also i cant be bothered to go ashara to get clf 😦
drifting cloud
dont worry bote is better 80% of the time
balmy condor
You can download simulationcraft and simulate it yourself
drifting cloud
atleast
indigo mulch
_>
quiet finch
idk how to do stuff like add a fake corruption on a piece in simcraft
or see how a gem would change dps
is that an option?
balmy condor
Yeah of course
drifting cloud
gear compare
quiet finch
ive only used simcraft to sim dps with what ive got on currently
indigo mulch
Is there any super good crit/haste bracers out there? I'm having so many issues finding one 😦
balmy condor
Mythic Skitra
quiet finch
ik ik, it was very hard
yeah, what to do, other than add more sockets
bc i cant do that atm, my outlaw spec takes priority for m+
balmy condor
Mythic azerite, both Helm and chest
drifting cloud
well you are 45 corr
quiet finch
ok. i have one, im just trying to determine which piece to put it on
balmy condor
Mythic carapace dagger
quiet finch
only progging ilgy atm cara is a few weeks out
indigo mulch
I would be scared to run that much corruption in raids and m+ :/
balmy condor
If you want to sim higher, CLF
quiet finch
clf?
balmy condor
Sub 60 for raids is fine
quiet finch
i wanna do more damage in raids, ik sim isnt 100% true
my logs are garbo for assassin
strange python
I’m new to this, In the guide says Garrote-rupture-Garrote , but when you Garrote in stealth you only get 2 combo points when you rupture and you overwriting empowered Garrote is that a dps loss?
balmy condor
When you garrote from stealth
You get 3
Then rupture, garrote again with the last second of subterfuge
So that’s still empowered
strange python
Oh ok
balmy condor
Then you get a 6cp rupture which makes a full duration
indigo mulch
You only get 3 CP if your using SS traits tho. In case your not using that.
balmy condor
Also @quiet finch if your logs suck, then that’s probably you playing, not the sim :)
quiet finch
ik
strange python
Yeah ss baseline
balmy condor
Yeah it is still a thing
quiet finch
outlaw player roped into playing assas due to single target =/
lime crypt
ayt ty
lime crypt
@quiet finch 
u got me
balmy condor
And then crit/mastery as an afterthought
balmy condor
Np
quiet finch
ty as well
balmy condor
Gotchu
I try to help as best I can, even when Koji has to jump in and whip me into shape for my CLF hate :P
strange python
@balmy condor ty man your a great help keep up the good work
balmy condor
fleet anchor
I'm just all about the love in here! No hate!
fleet anchor
balmy condor
Infinite stars
fleet anchor
I will admit, I'm not a big EB fan
Although I will say it is definitely a lot of FUN when it works
I just hate how it fits into our bigger picture gearing/build setup, and I think it was terribly designed lol
balmy condor
Hate for Infinite stars, the one thing that will unite all of humanity
fleet anchor
Yeah, I'm all about the IS hate
balmy condor
Fok feels mega outdated
I think they need to rethink How sin aoe is going to work in the future
fleet anchor
I don't really quite get why they went with the Crit design, felt like they were trying to force MA or whatever.. but of course the very very initial design of EB was horrifically broken
Like we mentioned the geometric scaling on PTR and they didn't believe us I guess
Until the first raid day
balmy condor
Remember in legion beta when there was chatter of exsang replicating dots to nearby targets
fleet anchor
When it was so hilariously broken
They had to hotfix it within a couple hours
And I feel like if you have to hotfix your design within 2 hours of it being live
It probably wasn't a very good design 😛
fleet anchor
Only Unholy DKs are allowed geometric AoE scaling
Which will never get nerfed for some reason, I guess
fleet anchor
They could have just made EB proc from poison applications instead of crits or something.. and copy DD design. And then it would have fit in more builds
Replicating Shadows was also totally bugged and never got fixed too. So that was just a whole lot of hackery in that patch for Rogue lol
balmy condor
How much do you think the crit EBmeta is affected by the fact that EV always crits
EB*
fleet anchor
Hard to say, kinda indirectly nerfs Severe and buffs Strikethrough.. but still need enough Severe to proc it so it might just even out
balmy condor
like I get the "we want EB to proc off crits, and then its guaranteed because crit on crit sucks"
but it feels like such a weird afterthought to me
fleet anchor
I mean that was the hotfix direction because they had to make it static instead of chaining
And that was their quick fix
balmy condor
yeah
fleet anchor
Doubt it was really thought about for more than an hour 😛
balmy condor
WTB designers for rogue
sub players have been rocking in a fetal position for 4 patches now
fleet anchor
yeah... it's unfortunate
glacial steppe
clf is like 2k better for me i think
indigo mulch
Should i keep CT up during bote? or just try get as many envenom as possible? 😮
balmy condor
Kojiyama is typing
fleet anchor
I don't care if people lower their DPS!
Better parses for me!
😄
I was the only CLF on the first page of N'zoth a few weeks ago, but have a few people joining me the last couple weeks lol
balmy condor
weirdflex
wild lion
should i gamble and buy 3 chests or wait another 2 weeks for bis chest?
glacial steppe
do we keep clf until cds are up again?
fleet anchor
I actually think CLF lines up really nice for N'zoth since I get it on 3 out of 4 Vendettas
balmy condor
depends on how much you believe in RNG seminex
fleet anchor
Waiting 2 weeks isn't too long I guess
balmy condor
and how much you need it right now
fleet anchor
Which are you going for?
balmy condor
bomber I assume
glacial steppe
@fleet anchor what minors you go at nzoth tho
wild lion
yes bomber
fleet anchor
Splitter, depends on the fight length. If you get the same amount of CLFs in the fight you would delay yes
balmy condor
pog I read minds
fleet anchor
If you are going for just that specific one
I would wait
If you're that close already
fleet anchor
@glacial steppe Iris, BotE, BotD
fleet anchor
Man I regret gambling so hard on my Hunter
I'm on my 6th shoulders
Without getting either of the good ones
balmy condor
I've gambled at least 7 or 8 for goraks so far
I mean uh
saving for goraks
very good
glacial steppe
hmm ive heard some things about vision minor at nzoth but didnt test it yet
quiet finch
is the exsang build the best atm? i saw the toxic blade one with 110k sim
dont know if that was ST
fleet anchor
I generally don't think VoP minor accomplishes all that much, at least on N'zoth where Vendetta on the boss fits pretty well already
glacial steppe
maybe it was a basher thingy for progress idk
fleet anchor
Yeah on prog if you needed MG1 Psychus damage I think the CDs aligned better
I don't really know, I played Outlaw during prog before the vendor 😛
On N'zoth
glacial steppe
also do we pad on psychophages for parses? 
steep plover
When wpuld u use vendetta when ur using vop minor? Without it i just wait to vendetta when its nzoth dmg phase
balmy condor
@quiet finch exsang is better than poison, but poison is still viable
fleet anchor
Since I use on 2nd adds (since they don't get blown up instantly)
glacial steppe
eh is mg2 fine as melee?
fleet anchor
Both egos, 2nd THs, and P3
fleet anchor
MG2 is fine as long as you don't have too many melee
fleet anchor
A couple is ok
glacial steppe
Im mg1, p chill
steep plover
Ye i usually go 2nd mg aswell
balmy condor
that's definitely a question
fleet anchor
Xanesh 🤣
steep plover
Fuck really heroic xanesh is piss
fleet anchor
Haha it's so much fun when you instant wipe from every single orb mistake
glacial steppe
Mythic is easier imo
spare flame
in what world is mythic easier
steep plover
Lmaoo
fleet anchor
I had like on track for Rank 5 Xanesh pull last week and someone kicked the second ball the wrong way on accident.. wanted to kill someone lol
Then do like 8k lower DPS the next pull RIP
steep plover
I always struggle with bosses that have u changing targets alot cause i cant get into the rhythm unless ive done them alot and i know the timings
quiet finch
anyone have a good dot wa btw, i like the one infexious has but i dont wanna shell out the $5
balmy condor
I'll dm you
glacial steppe
idk its static so you only really need 2 perfect spots to stand on
quiet finch
tyty
glacial steppe
hc was always a fiesta
steep plover
Wait what changes for mythic xanesh
From heroic
Gna be pushing mythic soon
There wa for xanesh that makes it pretty easy to do it with even 1 person
fleet anchor
The main change is that you can only use exactly 3 kicks and if anyone makes any mistake it is an instant raid wipe. Whereas in Heroic you can totally scuff one entire phase and survive. And it makes a surprisingly annoying difference lol
loud light
narrower paths for the orb to go, any mistake is an insta wipe, and each kick spawns an add that needs interrupts so you have to do 3 kicks (I've heard some raids do 4 but I refuse to believe it)
fleet anchor
It's not like it's mega hard or anything
glacial steppe
We did 3-4 kicks during progress
fleet anchor
It's just really obnoxious to wipe
glacial steppe
depending on how hard ppl tunneled
atleats its instawipe so progress was kinda fast tbh
scuffed half assed pulls are much worse
fleet anchor
Most fight in Mythic aren't too bad, just learning execution mostly
Until N'zoth
Carapace is also a fair bit different from Heroic
Since P3 gets a lot more scripted and complex
steep plover
Rip our guild is gna have to pug some for mythic since alot of people are taking a break so would be hard without good communication ay
glacial steppe
Imo communication is always key, no matter what you do
steep plover
Ye true but whenever ive pugged heroic it hasnt been too bad cause most people know what to do
fleet anchor
The early Mythic fights are definitely puggable up to like.. Xanesh and Ra-den probably
Since those actually require some coordination
steep plover
Ye gna do first 3 soon should be piss
Im simming around 92k u reckon my damage would be up to par if i stay close to the range?
naive cypress
The SS Exang build. Is it just all expedients?
balmy condor
people were progging mythic on like 85
steep plover
Oh shit
balmy condor
probably less tbh
balmy condor
corruption vender and sockets made sims across the board skyrocket
steep plover
I just need a good 475 piece to drop or something for me so i can chuck on another expedient my gear is so weak rn
Ye man its insane
I really just want to chuck it in a 465 but im homding myself nack
balmy condor
its pretty big for mecha rings, azerite as well
quiet finch
naive cypress
Azerite ye, for the Workshop ring then I presume?
balmy condor
yep
naive cypress
Since we are talking like 11 extra stat on the junkyars one
But you could run full 465 armor with 480 azerite and 485 mh and be within a few k dps of a fully decked one
solar stone
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f6DvvX7G4gL92GA37KVKYo how im doing it guys?
balmy condor
not sure I understand the question
98k is a pretty good sim generally speaking
are you looking for places to improve?
solar stone
I don't think I can improve at least for now. my guild is on vexiona after her we are going to raden
but raden's helmet sims a bit better
balmy condor
okay, so then what's your question
solar stone
Just wanna know if was a good sim :p
solar stone
I see, thank you!
quiet finch
question about the dots
should i wait until the last second before reapplying
like basically as its about to fall off
or do i apply it at the one point (forgot its name) but its like 6-7 sec for rupture, etc
balmy condor
if they're empowered let them drop
if not, apply within pandemic
sorry koji
you're gonna have to be faster than that
quiet finch
yeah
balmy condor
increase the duration of the new dot by the time that was remaining on the old one
quiet finch
so unless empowered, always refresh at the 30% pandemic time
quiet finch
ah
quiet finch
thats what i get confused ab during a fight
balmy condor
if you overwrite an empowered dot though
you don't get the damage
its duration only
so you have to let the empowered dots drop off fully
quiet finch
so after i hit exang, basically wait it out completely before reapp?
balmy condor
correct
balmy condor
yeah overwriting empowered bleeds is about the worst thing you can do tbh
aside from like exsang into vanish
which we've seen before
that's also pretty yikes
quiet finch
also, crimson tempest falls off like an old lady, can barely envenom
balmy condor
just keep CT up
quiet finch
30% pandemic applies to CT as well ?
balmy condor
sims have bloodlust war buff monk debuff
quiet finch
ah'
balmy condor
prepot and pot, food, flask and if you turned it on, augment rune as well
balmy condor
yeah
balmy condor
reapplications deal instant damage
quiet finch
ah
quiet finch
o
thats actually good to know
is envenom foh CT like a combo for wrathion spikes etc?
quiet finch
ok
balmy condor
rupture sniping for energy if you need it
quiet finch
1 combo point rupture?
quiet finch
im maxed out with expeds so
balmy condor
yeah
quiet finch
shouldnt be a proble
balmy condor
rupture sniping is kinda whatever with all the haste we have