Flex the crusader white horse
#assassination
tribal obsidian
light jacinth
didnt play then 
tropic ocean
idk think gladiator mounts are smth to flex
other ones are just "are you old enough to have played 15 yrs ago" or "can you farm long enough to get it to drop"
light jacinth
kinda, kinda not
some old glad mounts really didnt require any skill because of battlegroups
pick a bg that was dead, easy glad mount
also a lot of people just buy glad mounts, especially in bfa
like 70% of the time i see someone on a bc/wrath glad mount theyre like, hard stuck 1800 with negative w/r with 400 games played this season
humble tiger
before using exsanguate i should always refrsh both garrote and rupture right?
strange python
garrote at 15+ sec rup at 25+
before u ex
do people not read the guide before they ask questions?
shut garnet
a regular here has to take one for the team and rename to “Check the Pins”
humble tiger
are you reffering to this?
https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-exsanguinate/
shut garnet
check the pins my man
strange python
yes
shut garnet
yep that one
humble tiger
sorry my friend i read that but didn't see the small section at the end for cooldowns
i tought this was only about corruption/talent setup
tropic ocean
dont worry
onyx crane
what's the amount of haste needed to make bleed build work?
onyx crane
so what ar egood sim conditions? just patch 5 min?
uncut nova
For me it starten work at round about 3,5k haste mby lees ill buy 6 exp 3 At once best way. Ill sim 5 min or if i know Bosses live less than 3 min then other time
vast forum
look at your killtimes on bosses and sim that 
if you take 5 min to kill shad'har, sim 5 min
if you take 3 min, sim 3 min
onyx crane
I have about 800k less
vast forum
same with xanesh/raden
vast forum
if you're not killing mythic bosses, it's unlikely you have the gear to make SS/exsang work, but it's not impossible
uncut nova
Yeay but much farming
onyx crane
eh I only managed to kill ra-den once on myth
have not touched vex or zanesh
I think th bleed build currently would not benefit me with my current gear
need more expedient 😛
maybe then
but my current sims 5k higher on regular patch 5 min
dry ridge
Whats the better config to sim single in raidbots?
steep obsidian
default is patchwerk 5 mins? I'm not sure there is an answer for your question
vast forum
3 min patchwerk if you're killing single target bosses in 3 min 🙂
steep obsidian
ahuh
dry ridge
Thx guys 😄
main forge
Excited to get goraks today. Although I really want an ss+eb set.
tribal obsidian
I just went outlaw for aoe. If you need an entire gear set and different azerites might as well
tropic ocean
@main forge u can play 3 ss 3 hod or 3 ss 2 hod 1 bbi as well
its not as potent, but my friend pushed 3,2k+ with it, as he was really unlucky with eb pieces as well
:))
dawn root
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/Sosg36qDuNBotiZH93w48
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4geeU5XfsE1sm8z6fXcLTL
Strangely enough my crit gear must be much better than my haste stuff because my crit stuff is simming way higher than expedient stacking?
main forge
Good to know. Yeah outlaw would be easier, I just need to run M+... To get comfortable. I have to look at my weakaura too much and stand in crap too much
tropic ocean
practice will fix these mistakes dont worry
and yeah I have a sound for few things so I don't need to really look at my weak auras much
recently started to make all my bars mouse over only so they are hidden in combat and reduced weak auras as well
now just gotta find a way to make combopoints/energy more visible on mobs with big models and then I can remove these weak auras too
shrewd iron
@dawn root is 
feral flare
How much haste is required before exang/3xSS build starts to pull ahead of the basic build? Currently at 43%
strange python
when it sims better
tropic ocean
for me it started to outscale at 60%+ base haste iirc
but that varies dependingon ur gear yeah
feral flare
Hm. Okay. I take it 43 is not enough then because it doesn't even come close to simming better.
It'll take me probably a month to out that build together. What are the chances Blizz nerfs something here between now and then?
tribal obsidian
What do you think is optimal for shad? One r3 IS and the rest expedient?
wet ruin
dawn root
Oh you're smooth with the raidbots @wet ruin thanks
broken crypt
lol i got crimson tempest to change but not ensanguate
need to wait for exp3 again anyhow
gotta buy FIVE :X
needs more exp3 right?
plan to purify this racing pulse 3 ring i have, its one of the bis mech rings but not sure if it matters for bleed build?
strange python
mech ring duo is bis
wet ruin
simming with MA ?
strange python
o.O
broken crypt
i knew there was something really dumb
slim pebble
Just need to grind a socket now
wet ruin
you can go from here @broken crypt https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/36PuX2ysEXzwLtRCuyzPhK
broken crypt
awesome, thank you Annsie 🙂
deft obsidian
Does a higher iteration licence actually run full gem/enchants check any quicker than 30-40 mins? 😂
wet ruin
no
red marsh
@strange python remember that rogue I was on about who was running vison major? He blocked me on discord after discussing it
unborn otter
Got the haste ring last night. Cache gave me a 475 plumage. Feelsgoodman
slim pebble
I got the healing ring out of my chest this week...
unborn otter
Sims worse than galecallers and vita trinket, rip
willow sundial
strange python
just swap to galecaller when u can stand still for it's full duration and plum when you can't
tribal obsidian
What was thr difference between the plumage and gale for you out of curiosity?
unborn otter
That's what I was thinking as far as what to use when. My luck had generally been pretty good with being able to find places to drop it and stay in safely, but it's always a bad feel when a secondeye spawns or mechanic requires movement. Then there's the tank moving for no reason occasionally. Still happy regardless of how the sim pays out.
Also @tribal obsidian I'll get that for you shortly, grabbing breakfast atm
robust lake
I guess looking through top sims, is all expedient just straight better than expedient + IS for patchwork?
vital haven
expedient + is is better for patchwerk
robust lake
Ok. Been trying to figure out how to sim for replacing corruption...juat to many iteratuons
strange python
too bad there is one pathwerk fight where IS doesnt kill you
tribal obsidian
Pure ST things like IS sim higher than pure exp
robust lake
@strange python yeah, there aren't even many true ST fights. Most have adds that mess with IS
tribal obsidian
Im still curious if In ST pure IS is best or if theres a sweet spot of haste/IS
robust lake
From my sims, it seems like 1x rank 3 plus max expedient to corruption cap is the best
vital haven
correct
tribal obsidian
But is that just what you have avail?
robust lake
But then you start adding all those adds that eat IS pros...and I feel I should just dump it almost every fight
robust lake
Yeah, i manually removed all corruption, then did top gear with adding corruption, and thats what it spat out
tribal obsidian
Yea but did you have more IS to run as well?
robust lake
Took a while and was a giant pain...but seemed right?
Yes, I let it sim as many as it wanted, rank 2 and 3
tribal obsidian
Ah k
wet ruin
@robust lake can you link the IS sim
robust lake
Um, not from my phone lol. Have it all saved on the PC
But yes, ill @ you later with it
wet ruin
alright
wet ruin
91 corruption though
robust lake
Yeah, the sim will lower but same result. Prob like 100k range
grizzled jay
Blizz memed me
robust lake
Although looking at these sims, I should dump vision and add the new essence? I wasn't even simming for it as a minor. Just thought vision was the best minor....ooops
manic pebble
god, I'm so dumb, I accidentally bought deadly momentum instead of expedient from the last rotation
mighty elm
manic pebble
just realized when I applied it on my new 475 dagger
look on the bright side, I still have 2 more expedient to spend
but it could've been 3
quiet radish
I had a question. I'm still learning the ropes of an assassination rogue is gushing wounds no longer a valid corruption then even if your stacking it?
manic pebble
I'm not sure but I've seen a lot of ass rogues are stacking expedient
so I'm trying to do the same
strange python
you can run one gushing on a 485 item
candid phoenix
Like buckstubber said, dont put gushing unless its 485 item, but expedient is still the best option in general. its the most reliable ST dps corruption for every situation
you will read about TA/IS being good for ST and simming high yes, but there is only 1 fight in Nyalotha that those corruptions can be absolutely reliable. Most of the important bosses those corruptions will put so much RNG in ur overall performance that its not evne worth the effort imho
robust lake
Yeah. I run IS on soccer/wrath/skit...i think thats it? And even then I lose a bunch of procs to adds...
quiet radish
Here is my current sim i'm always looking for feedback https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4mHrWqASFBbTdPwSZb8PRk
strange python
dont do light movement
candid phoenix
You should begin with farming Galecallers and Plumage. they are both decent depending on the situation. Also sim Patchwerk. And try to get 3 SS traits, 2 Hearts of darkness from raid azerites and Gorak Tuls mantle for Blightborne infusion
strange python
u got any expedients in bag?
quiet radish
no just what i currently have equipped
strange python
idk what to tell you, you barely got any gear
candid phoenix
Also, when you reached the point that u can start minmaxing, you should try to get Haste on every item u have, and then either crit or mastery. Dont mix crit and mastery imho. I tried simming mixed stats after haste and my sims were awkward. Going for full of 1 of the 2 was giving better results and were mostly the same
manic pebble
should I just buy random arzerite shoulders and pray for gorak tuls mantle or just try to get 20k and buy the piece?
candid phoenix
how much residuum do u have?
manic pebble
enough for 1 random
strange python
how high keys do you run?
vital haven
hmm nah
manic pebble
right now I'm doing 14-15
candid phoenix
well, if u go for specific u need from 5 to 8 weeks depending on how high keys u do
strange python
true
vital haven
if its one piece you are targetting
candid phoenix
yeah
vital haven
you wait
candid phoenix
Just a heads up Flushies, a 465 Gorak tuls simmed higher than a 480 shoulder with SS on it for me
vital haven
but beware there are people that are still gambling and havent gotten those shoulders yet lmao
candid phoenix
so if u wanna get to a safe zone u can find a 465 gorak tuls and then gather for the mythic
strange python
I got gorak's on my first random buy 8)
vital haven
well you cant get a 465 goraktul unless you gamble
strange python
Well I'm still rocking maut helm 😦
manic pebble
oh boi time to farm waycrest's manor
strange python
why? xd
strange python
if u dont want 430 ones 8)
vital haven
if you are looking for a replacement while waiting for goraktul
get either the mythic or heroic ilgy shoulderrs
those are fine until mythic goraktul
candid phoenix
yep idd
quiet radish
How is the iggy shoulders better than Nzoth shoulders?
manic pebble
it has ss
candid phoenix
You cant play Exsang build w/o 3 SS
strange python
you can
candid phoenix
it just doesnt work
vital haven
you can
strange python
I have ot use maut helm
quiet radish
im currently doing it at 2
candid phoenix
well ofc u can yes, but its not gonna perform to the standards u expect
strange python
still waiting for ra den or vendor helm 😦
candid phoenix
I actually got a 465 Vision helm with SS and HoD
strange python
ye I got 465 ra den helm
candid phoenix
found it in my Item restoration KEKW
deft obsidian
😂
strange python
sims worse than 480 maut helm with NP + HoD
candid phoenix
not for me :/
dull osprey
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/23yqmFKXAkE248uyN2CMPB
I feel like I should be higher dps at 475 ilvl, but idk
vital haven
ilvl only matters so much this patch
candid phoenix
Pale, the DD build is really scuffed this tier. it started okish but no room for huge improvements
dull osprey
AH. So my build is out of date?
strange python
yes
candid phoenix
it pains me to say it cus i loved this build but yeah, its almost legacy nowadays
dull osprey
ripperoo
unborn otter
Is there a helm with SS on it from vendor?
strange python
yes
candid phoenix
yes
unborn otter
Hell yeah, gambling time
candid phoenix
strange python
cowl of fluid machinations
dull osprey
So whats hip these days? SS builds?
strange python
yes
candid phoenix
SS/Exsang/Expedient build
dull osprey
baller
strange python
gz
dull osprey
been wanting to use exang for a while now, but kept simming like hot garbo
unborn otter
Jesus christ I've gotten all the luck in the past 24 hours.
dull osprey
now I know why
strange python
saw dagger in the back sim higher than TTK for someone btw
unborn otter
Oh, gotcha. I'll run a sim to make sure
candid phoenix
it sims higher in general buck but it doesnt perform to its sims
unborn otter
Ooof
candid phoenix
i actaully like TTK in the exsang build as an alternative. there are times that i drop my envenom buff to reapply rupture or CT and i m never sure if its correct
dull osprey
weird, when I sim my SS pieces its telling me to get bent...
strange python
link?
strange python
u barely got any haste
ye 14%
no way triple ss is going to be better then xd
nvm
dull osprey
14%?
solar flicker
no deeper strat
dull osprey
I did just see that in the guide in the 
strange python
exsang build is better for well geared characters too
candid phoenix
46% is still rly low i m afraid. i m running 70% unbuffed just to be below 40 corruption and i cant say i m satisfied. I think u need to reach around 80% haste unbuffed to get the maximum of the spec
strange python
Are you permanently energy capped with 70% unbuffed? jeeze
dull osprey
brutal
strange python
I'm at like.... 46-47% unbuffed and i'm energy capped through all my high damage windows
Im playing 72 xd
vital haven
you are pretty much spamming all the time
vital haven
never run out of energy
strange python
when you've tested this amount of haste you can't go back
candid phoenix
yes, its so bad
strange python
SL will feel like classic 8)
dull osprey
lmao
strange python
lol jeeze. I really need some better gear
candid phoenix
During BL and all procs up i hit 220% haste
dull osprey
buddy of mine just got to something like 72% haste on arms
strange python
I'm at 471 simming around 86-87k but I don't think I can get much better gear til I progress further in mythic
candid phoenix
thats about 2.5 auto attacks per second
dull osprey
unbuffed
candid phoenix
the character hits like the Flash
candid phoenix
even my gear is lacking. since the rogue was so bad compared to other melees, i had to swap to Fire mage for the last 4 bosses of progress
so i never killed carapace for the dagger
or Raden for the head 😄
and vita
strange python
atleast u can run exsang build @dull osprey
What do you guys enjoy for an alt? I think I'm finally gonna make one but I want something fun
strange python
I just started on my BM hunter xD
tropic ocean
@strange python dh
tropic ocean
watching netflix while do top performance in keys
dull osprey
now it's at least saying that exang and 1 SS is better
tropic ocean
👍
strange python
that sounds like some immersive gameplay
yes u did
I mean same as the one I linked ^^
robust lake
Exang for ST, do you run it on cleave as well? I.e, raden/hive?
strange python
yes
robust lake
Still trying to figure out an ideal cleave setup.
candid phoenix
JJ you cant really make assa do good in cleave/Aoe fights. So you just focus on ur ST 😛
on hivemind you can run echoing Blades but still Drones dont count on logs so its pointless
mighty elm
Didn’t they change that?
strange python
Worth it to go CT for hivemind? or just keep poison bomb
robust lake
Yeah...its been my issue. I can do "high" dps, or actually kill things that natter
candid phoenix
These are my ST sims in case you wonder. I tried simming my BiS gear with 2 Carapace daggers, mythic vita and Raden head and the sims showed 115k
robust lake
I usually just run ST build+ TD on hive and call it a day
candid phoenix
Hasubaka if u are talking about exsang build CT performs better even on ST
strange python
Word. Yeah I'm tryin exsang in raid for the first time tonight. CT sims like 100dps higher but I still need to get the whole shebang down
candid phoenix
When u sim RNG proccs
always count the RNG factor
Bomb sims 100dps lower, but if ur target runs out of it b4 the full duration is over its a waste
candid phoenix
thats why Exsang build relies on full non RNG mostly
strange python
I think i'm like right on the middle ground between tb and exsang
For example, 3x DD 1x SS still sims higher for me than 3x SS
candid phoenix
i m personally done with the DD/TB build. i tried expedient / Severe. max TA builds
robust lake
I guess followup...what do you guys run in high Keys with 39 corruption? Do you slap on Echoing blades for fort weeks?
candid phoenix
it just didnt live up to expectations
strange python
Oh this is still for Exsang
Everything says run 3x SS but for some reason that sims lower for me than 3x DD/1x SS
candid phoenix
but right now u are giving me a comparison of 3v4 traits 🤔
strange python
here, sec
candid phoenix
JJ, i personally run 3SS/2EB/1HoD regardless of week
its the best combination for total dmg
and after 17-18+ keys u need total
tropic ocean
@strange python well each player defines fun differently so cant really answer that
I play every class and enjoy some more, some less
and switch them depending on what I want to do
strange python
Ehh nvm, I logged out with my crappy gloves on to hit 39 for 3s, but the gear is the same minus that
@candid phoenix
dull osprey
Well, I'm now exang build, but I'm having a similar issue that hasu is having. Saying that 2xDD and 1xSS is better than 3xSS
tropic ocean
if I wanna blast weeklies with friends I just play easy classes so we can chill
etc
dull osprey
I'm assuming that is due to my gear not being fully stat optimized rn?
robust lake
@fresh yeah thats been my issue, is finding the sweet spot...then figuring out stats. As with EB...i really want more crit vs all haste. As I've been running SS + EB, 1xTD, rest severe up to cap
@candid phoenix
But on tyrannical...EB just feels so bad
candid phoenix
Thats why i run 3SS and 2 EB
so i can have a good mixture
others run 3EB 2SS and that gives u more trash dmg
but slightly less boss
it all depends on the week and the arsenal of azerites u have in ur bags
robust lake
Yeah. I max out at 2 Eb, just wasn't sure if there was a better mix
candid phoenix
@strange python I see you re running GoA, i really hate that essence cus it doesnt line up for all ur vanish/vendettas
idk how it sims, but i dont change from BotE no matter
Tbh JJ, i wont lie. Assa for M+ needs so much minmaxing that ur better off going Outlaw
mighty elm
there is no way that gear sims higher than if you switch to SS trait tho @strange python ??
candid phoenix
I dont play outlaw either. I hate that spec, so i put the effort into minmaxing. But not every1 wants to
candid phoenix
best M+ setup for assa is full severe for keys up to 22-23. after that u want to drop some crit for Versa and even Avoidance corruption for very high keys
even TD isnt that good for very high keys. u just want to avoid the RNG, and the random ninja pulls it can cause in some dungeons like TD or WM
robust lake
Yeah, my group is just starting to push for 20-21. TD wall pulls are the best
candid phoenix
idk bro, our tank procced TD after the 2nd boss in TolDagor right b4 u exit to the 1st cannon area
and he pulled the last boss
in a 22TD
RIP key
dull osprey
So, is DD still a good trait for consistent damage? I'm trying to make sense of my sims
candid phoenix
if u cant play SS/Exsang/Expedient build u dont have any alternative imho
maiden palm
Severe and strikethrough are the best corruptions to stack for m+. It will get to the point where TD doesn't keep up w/ the crit
I personally have 54% base crit and 16% crit damage from strikethrough. It makes my echoing blades do crazy dps
strange python
@mighty elm i'll link my normal gear when i get home, i dont have my bag simc saved
had to swap out gloves for lower corruption, but yeah when i plug in 3x SS it sims lower. Makes no sense
dull osprey
Well my sim says to do exang build, but only wants 1 SS and 2 DD (with some random proc based inner ring traits)
strange python
@candid phoenix yeah CLF is weird. I like it, it sims high, but the CD is always in a weird place
mighty elm
just off of what you have equipped switching the azerite traits around to SS you sim 1k more tho
robust lake
@maiden palm sweet thx. Any chance you could link your M+ gear setup for ref?
strange python
The other gloves I have have racing pulse 3 on em so it gives more haste, and for some reason 3x dd sims higher idk
It's weird, I'll run a sim when i get home and tag ya. Makes no sense
candid phoenix
Full SS/exsang build starts outsimming DD at high amounts of haste
idrk which is the threshhold
dull osprey
Ah, so it is gear based
quiet radish
at what point should i switch to SS/Exsang build?
candid phoenix
yeah guys the exsang build is gear dependant
it doesnt perform w/o maxed out gear
dull osprey
I need another couple expedients (in like a month when they come back around) and pants that have haste on em
candid phoenix
u can get the 9% expedients when it pops so u can begin, and then farm till r3 comes back
quiet radish
im going by what raidbots says and currently im at BIS for some reason atleast heroic and currently farming the first 3 bosses on heroic
mythic*
for me it says my BIS pants are the mythic Skit pants
candid phoenix
Exsang BiS list requires Haste/Crit or haste/mast on every item piece
dull osprey
oh right, I think I need at least 1 rank II exped for the bis corruption set up right?
I'm not far off from that actually. I woulda had 1 more exped III this past week but had to move xD
candid phoenix
If u wanna stay below 40 corruption, u must have 6 r3 and 1 r2 currently
tomorrow for EU or today for US, u cna have 7 r3 and still be below
strange python
They need to add a new catchup for cloak 😦
candid phoenix
yeah i neglected that i m talking to US rogues as well xD
strange python
I started late so I'm weeeeeeks behind on cores
candid phoenix
They wont Hasu. dont count on it
strange python
Missing out on 21 corruption resist
feels bad
Oh wait nvm, only 15 i guess if i get both this week. That's not too bad
topaz valley
Ashvane coral sim's higher than medalion as far as i'm concerned, maybe going with a mix of exp/severe could be good?
topaz valley
not by much but i was still wondering
strange python
u got dice
topaz valley
yeah dice sims higher than my vita 460
topaz valley
oh
deft obsidian
- Tomorrow, I believe
red bloom
I too believe in tomorrow for that glorious orange feather
strange python
Can the chest just be literally any dungeon drop?
kind eagle
is there a quick and easy way for me to look up what azerite peices have SS and EB both on them?
main blaze
https://www.wowhead.com/azerite-finder @kind eagle
white wyvern
kind eagle
awesome!
strange python
rank 2 breath
north ibex
breath's gonna be rank 3 after i finish assault, gonna be revered XD
need more expedients?
currently 58% haste
main blaze
You probably dont have enough haste to make CT better
void pecan
plumage or boon yeh
deft obsidian
Plumage if you have but sim it.
tiny sierra
What's proper opener w exsang with CT? Do you aim to exsang a CT in the opener or wait until after
tiny sierra
Tyvm
fleet whale
going from BFA to Shadowlands might feel worse than going from Legion to BFA for sin
going from global capped in BFA, to 34 apm in SL launch
strange python
Is there a way I can plug an item in with gear compare, then copy an output for top gear sims, etc?
timid coral
run gear compare -> open raw input -> look for copy="your custom gearset name" (near the bottom, just before sim configs -> copy item id's etc into top gear input
signal garden
@strange python not difficult to break over 100% base haste in m+ setups. I think I could see myself going up to 105% base if I swapped a ring from the mechagon set for double haste heavy/mastery rings.
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
nice ty @timid coral
fringe socket
anyone know how to get to bloodmyst isle for horde
strange python
This is what I was talking about, forgot who I was talking to lol
3x DD/ 1x SS is higher for whatever reason. I'll take it but just seemed weird
low gear
that's probably why
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Slowly getting through mythic and i guess that's all i can do for now
sullen pagoda
having coral/plumage/gcb is highly prefered over the wrathion trinket
you can farm either of those 3 pretty easily
this is feelycraft but basically playing 3x SS most of your damage is packed into cds, not having an on use trinket makes it favor the passive DD
well even with on use DD is still pretty strong on some pieces like nzoth mythic shoulders
sullen pagoda
checking some of your logs coral might still be far better than plumage for you with your kill timers
9 min wrathion lol
strange python
Yeah lol it's not pretty
Still trying to find a group to do mythic with
So just kind of bouncing around atm
tranquil moat
Any idea why it's telling me to use these expedient bits even when they don't make a difference really?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/voBtVj996zZ9vybnm1MqTS
Anyone able to take a look and get back to me?
Would appreciate any help possible
feral creek
Does anyone know if tentacles can switch target with a macro?
rigid eagle
@tranquil moat bro u got nutty items lol
strange python
Yeah that is the highest ilvl with such an odd combo of gear lol
tranquil moat
I've got shitty items, that's why I've only got 70k dps
tranquil moat
I wish I had better gear, I would like to get to 80k+
rigid eagle
@tranquil moat 475 plumage, 475 main hand, cara chest + nzoth shoulders
whole cypress
should have kept the tendies on your dagger
rigid eagle
those are all pretty bis stuff until you go deep into mythic raids
tranquil moat
Hasu, what would you focus on?
@rigid eagle really?
rigid eagle
you honestly just need more corruptions
tranquil moat
Honestly like I had no idea
rigid eagle
plumage is bis
tranquil moat
I see people pulling in like 100k, and i'm sitting at 70k lol
rigid eagle
475 mainhand is good for any weapon dmg class
strange python
they're pulling 100k cuz they have tons of corruption
drifting cloud
yeah people that have cleared mythic
rigid eagle
rn you need to farm out the right mechagon rings
tranquil moat
I'm only 12/12HC
strange python
i'm only 12/12HC and I'm pulling 86k
rigid eagle
@tranquil moat you need a vita shard first of all, a 460 version shouldn't be too hard
strange python
You can do it friend
drifting cloud
just farm echoes wait 3 weeks for exp3 to rotate
tranquil moat
So, I should focus on getting more expedient and mechagon rings?
rigid eagle
also more haste pieces in general tbh
tranquil moat
What would you put the expedients on?
strange python
your weps
tranquil moat
ok, @strange python if I was to get 2 rank 3 on my weapons would that be a good start?
I can farm echoes tomorrow
rigid eagle
lol exped 3 won't come back for like another month
strange python
it doesn't matter what you put them on, but you want them on something you won't replace for awhile
rigid eagle
so that's ur main problem
tranquil moat
Fuck
strange python
yeah you just missed it
tranquil moat
I guess I can stick with this for a month?
Should I bother gambling azerite at all?
strange python
just pick up an IS3 and you'll sim just fine lol
rigid eagle
@tranquil moat gamble for shoulders
strange python
try and get gorak
rigid eagle
yeah
tranquil moat
Hasu, I'd be happy to break like 80-85k, I don't raid anything above heroic and never will
rigid eagle
also gibbering maw + tortured fleshbeast is pog already
tranquil moat
Gorak?
rigid eagle
gorak tul shoulders
blightborn + shrouded suffocation is big pog
and also overwhelming power inner ring
tranquil moat
Ahhh, I'll try that tomorrow then I think I will have enough
rigid eagle
also, how much gold do you have?
you can look into leatherworking
it's kind of a gold sink
tranquil moat
So, i'll wait a month and buy 2x rank 3 expedients - my gear okay for now though yeah?
Not much, I could start that though for the goggles?
tranquil moat
ok
rigid eagle
i see you got one exped 3 on ur ring but that's not the right ring lol
drifting cloud
exp3 comes back in 3 weeks exactly, in that time you can get 20k echoes without trying alot
strange python
Make sure you do a 5 mask vision each week, you get a 470 from it
rigid eagle
you rly want the "from behind" one
tranquil moat
i'll do that then, i'll farm a shit ton of echoes for expedient
Thanks Hasu, not sure if I can do it solo yet tbh as I haven't tried
I did want to spend all my echoes on gushing wounds as I'm quite enjoying playing arena tbh - but I prefer pve atm
rigid eagle
and yeah, 5 mask vision is literally just new 470 wrist every week for me lol
idk if that's just rng but
strange python
i have so many 470 wrists from it lol
rigid eagle
replacing ur wrist would be big too
strange python
that's all they give me
strange python
3 of my 470s are from 5 masks
lone junco
I have like 4 475 gloves on druid. It's a fun game.
tranquil moat
okay, so stock up on echoes and buy expedient in 3 weeks
try and get new wrists
do 5 masks for expedient bits (not sure if I'm capable solo)
and try get haste/vers socket boots?
rigid eagle
5mask is just for 470 gears tbh
tranquil moat
true
fallow breach
5 masks are for sockets
tranquil moat
does expedient work well in arena at all lol?
keen moss
is infinite stars good? or should i keep saving strictly for expedient r3?
strange python
Everyone will tell you no
fallow breach
strickly expedient is better
strange python
But I loved my IS3
fallow breach
I bought an is3 the day it popped on the shop
keen moss
its cause i don't have any expedient but i rolled a couple IS
fallow breach
just to try it out
strange python
it's the best you can do til the vendor comes around again lol
you'll feel like a god on some fights
and kill yourself on Maut
keen moss
LOL
shy dust
IS is very overrated
fallow breach
now i'm stuck with is3 and 3 expedient instead of 5/6 expedient
shy dust
Well at least he knows he wasted echoes
tranquil moat
is expedient any good in arena?
strange python
Probably depends on what level you're at
tranquil moat
true..
strange python
i'm only like 1500-1600 and it seems fine to me but i'm sure others know better
vast forum
gushing for arena 100%
tranquil moat
It's shit in PvE though 😦
Anyone able to get any higher than this with my current gear?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9ghKFeh9yNV9wBBWoKjJbG
dull osprey
Do I hold onto exang for when I vend/vanish? or use on cd?
rigid eagle
guide says to exsang on cd but i feel like it's kinda sketchy to just pop ur exsang
when you literally just came back to boss from doing a mechanic, have no dots ticking, and ur vanish + vendetta are both 10 sec away
quiet radish
I try to time it when I just did a refresh on both dots while I wait for my vendetta/vanish setup to get off CD
tidal jetty
ofc you wont exs without bleed up
dull osprey
right, and I want my bleeds to be >15s for garrote and >25s for rupt
what I'm wondering is if I should hold onto my exsang for 20ish sec to make use of the vanish buff to garrote?
sullen pagoda
@rigid eagle I mean guide cant cover every single possible situation, its on you to adapt
rigid eagle
yeah lol, basically nothing is 100% set in stone
quiet radish
I wait the 20 seconds
sullen pagoda
you shouldnt wait on exsang unless you were stopped from using it
quiet radish
Your CD’s won’t line up if you use it on CD all the time
shell ivy
got both mechagon rings, do i enchant them with haste?
quiet radish
If your using the haste build then yes
sullen pagoda
Yes it wont line up you will delay vendetta / vanish
quiet radish
Say wah
shell ivy
haste build being full expedient, crit haste gear right
sullen pagoda
unless the kill timer is going to make you miss a cast of vanish vendetta cuz of it
you will delay those
its same as u with toxic blade
wet ruin
this might sound very rude, but didn't you say earlier today you were just learning assa and the bleed build @quiet radish
dull osprey
okay, so the empowered garrote would be nice for an exang, but don't hold either vanish or exang to pair them?
sullen pagoda
that is not what i wrote?
dull osprey
You said not to wait on exang
sullen pagoda
and what else i said
unless the kill timer is going to make you miss a cast of vanish vendetta cuz of it
@sullen pagoda
you will delay those
@sullen pagoda
its even in the guide
this is some fake exsang use timers
10 55 1:40 2:25
and vanish would be 25 2:25
so u dont really delay anything
dull osprey
I gotcha
sullen pagoda
i mean vanish not vendetta
dull osprey
My discrepancies are probably messing up the rotation then
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
twin robin
forgot bout command thx 😛
near coyote
Im dreading having slice and dice back
main forge
same
hopefully its not another maintence buff
or they at least make it so that it gets refreshed by envenom or something
I don't like FINISHers... I.E. They Finish something... that don't do damage.
i mean kidney shot at least stuns something and allows you to finish them
how is SnD a "finisher"
loud light
I mean if we're getting into names, pretty sure it's finishing the 'combo' of abilities you've been building towards
but the words are meaningless at this point
main forge
yeah, but its lackluster
Do fire mages have something they build towards just buff their spell power or crit? Been playing arcane lately... do they have something that when they build their arcane points up that just grants them say spell haste for 25 seconds?
Warlocks? do they build something up to spend it on something that just makes them attack faster?
most classes... albeit, i am unsure of this, none have such a mechanic.
main forge
So are finishers currently are.... Envenom, Rupture, Kidney Shot, (Crimson Tempest)... is there any others I forgot?
paper kelp
thats it I think
main forge
KS is pretty much just used for pvp and bosses with adds. so its kind of an outlier.
Rupture has pathetic damage to be frank
Envenom can hit hard... but doesn't always...
somber zephyr
Hey Guys i want to create a rogue. I am alliance. What Race would U guys suggest me to pick? Any synergy?
main forge
SnD just needs something to make it feel "fun and worthwhile" instead of just another button to press. I hate to say add a random % of something to it.
I went Night Elf in BC and never went back
Mechagnome could look cool(wastes the lockpick though)
Dark Iron sounds good too
uneven aspen
yo can you energy snipe things from beyond?
main forge
energy snipe?
stray pumice
I think he means put a rupture and when it "Dies" get full energy bar
paper kelp
with the exp build tho you shouldn't be enegry stavred at all
not like you need to do it
if it works
uneven aspen
true
another question: there is this point where exsang is off cd and vendetta still has 20+ seconds.. I use exsang so I don't waste uses, right? Or do I delay exsang to line it with vendetta/vanish?
digital shore
For M+, how much crit do you guys aim for to make the switch to strikethrough corruptions?
lost wharf
How many Expedient lvl do you need before RP3 becomes worth?
dull crypt
You use exsang and then delay vendetta etc with your next exsang Falangor
mental trout
Hey guys! pretty happy i found this discord. So much information to take in! just started playing wow again after a few years and recently learned about raidbots. I was wondering if any one could look at the gear i have and see if they can get a higher sim? Not even sure how id go about sending you that infromation to look at? Id really appreciate it though!
dull crypt
You can just link your page
plain thistle
that just the topgear page, you need to link with it already done
grave trail
from what ive seen on top logs casts they always lineup the 4th exang with 2nd vend vanish so im guessing they delay vendetta a bit
plain thistle
yes, you delay vendetta to use it with 4th exsg and vanish
dull crypt
If you really have a huge delay between fourth exsang and second vanish you had too much downtime using the first 3 anyway
grave trail
not for me the 4th exsang is off by like 15-20 seconds using exang on cd
mental trout
any one mind seeing if they can get a higher sim ^^ ❤️
quiet radish
What’s the BIS legs for the haste stack? Raidbots keep indicating the legs from Mythic Skit are the BIS but those legs don’t have haste on them
low girder
whichever ones you got out of your weekly chest if it sims higher
otherwise, neither legs out of the raid have haste so pick whichever the sims tell you
quiet radish
Sims says that lol so I guess go with that
low girder
could also go LW and make 470s; may not sim higher though. at least the 470 crit/haste pants i got out of visions don't, for me
vast forum
with full 475/485 gear, you can have too much haste
for me, in my full haste gear, sims want me to gem a bit of vers
in the end, if you have a lot of haste pieces, just wear full 475/485 and juggle the sockets, rather than stats on gear itself
that is with vita/galecaller tho, idk if haste falls off without that combo, haven't done too much simming yet
quiet radish
Well currently I’m at 40% unbuffed hasted but I currently don’t have the stacking of exp r3 I’m stacking gushing since it still sims high. I’m still at around on average 475 gear with my heroic vita holding me back at 460
On average I’m parsing around 80K
vapid scarab
80k is not very high at all, my full gushing pvp set does 90k
quiet radish
Well my bursting I’m pushing 130K but I’m talking average for a fight duration
drifting cloud
difference between a hc and a mythic vita is less than a socket
vapid scarab
so am i
perfect stats mean less than you think, especially when there's as much as 25 ilvl differences
also why the fuck do you have a strength trinket
desert pelican
someone trying to stack surging vitality for visions? or expedients/recing pulses with all extra haste just better?
vapid scarab
why would you stack surging vitality
quiet radish
Here is my a non progressive fight feel free to provide improve https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WcpCr7fj39kNyZYH/#boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2&type=summary
vast forum
why would you stack anything for visions? they're free content
100 is a bit unrealistic
as you want them to drop when playing exsang before reapplying
quiet radish
You can’t for skit lol
wet ruin
still unrealistic and even incorrect
vapid scarab
he linked a log with a bunch of fights so i chose the fight with no forced downtime
desert pelican
im just asking 😉 doing carries for 2 buyers same time, thats why trying some cheese. surging has high uptime when u take damage, and its only visions where u take damage all the time
vast forum
just run leeching poison and kill shit
drifting cloud
and stacking vers helps how 
vast forum
nothing's gonna kill you if you don't overpull, and you don't have to overpull to boost 2 ppl
even on full single target, garrote and rupture should drop when empowered
desert pelican
full clears still hard for low levelled cloak 😉
vast forum
wait, you're carrying 2 ppl while your cloak is low? 0mask or smt?
vast forum
just leave them dead lol
desert pelican
im doing full clears always 😉 for rank 1-2 cloacks sometimes
vast forum
just leave the last boss of every zone alive and clear the rest of the vision
vapid scarab
the limiting factor on a 5 objective boost is damage, not damage taken
vast forum
then res them and run from boss to boss
desert pelican
im know ;D
vapid scarab
so why are you asking that question
desert pelican
thats why im want to try surging
vapid scarab
but surging doesn't give you more damage
desert pelican
vers isnt gives u damage?
vast forum
@quiet radish questionable opener on shad'har
vapid scarab
not as much as expedient
the damage you can do is the only limiting factor, therefore you would do best to maximize that damage
vast forum
first vanish 1 minute into the fight
not having full rupture for first exsang
or 2nd
applying bleeds right after 2nd exsang
a LOT of poison knife casts
quiet radish
Dmg while soaking orbs
vast forum
why are you soaking ranged orbs?
quiet radish
RL wanted people to do it
vast forum
what am i even looking at
vision minor
blood after vendetta is over
there's so many issues
quiet radish
I’m still learning 🙂
vast forum
i haven't even named half of them
vapid scarab
just go hit a dummy until it's muscle memory
vast forum
fok casts on shad'har 
and a kick
quiet radish
From what I read from opener you do a stealth garrote then a 3 CP RUP then mut then max rup then vet blood exs then let garrote drop then vanish garrote 2 times then rup max then mut then max CP envenom
fallow breach
Uh no
vast forum
garrote-rup-garrote-vend-mut-rup-exsang-blood
vast forum
as soon as garrote expires, you vanish and double garrote but that's not what you did
you didn't press 2nd rupture in the opener
you vanished 1 minute into the fight
sick oyster
how do you guys handle an opener where u go CT first because u land at 5cp but after the CT 2x mut still dont put you at 6cp? a) then do a 5cp rup b) use a 1cp builder?
crimson palm
It's there in the guide, read it
vapid scarab
@sick oyster you use the same rules for finishing with deeper strat as any other talent
finish at max cp or max -1
whatever your mutiliates give you
vast forum
i mean
sick oyster
what do you use to do so @vast forum if you are at 5cp
vast forum
i mut again
sick oyster
thats a tilter but i guess
quiet radish
Oh I don’t have a 3 piece SS for what’s it worth also @vast forum only two
vast forum
@strange python please point me in the direction of a log where the first 3cp rupture has over 25 sec remaining
what does that change @quiet radish ?
strange python
....you never do? that's why you do the second rupture
strange python
garrote -> rupture -> garrote -> mut -> rupture
quiet radish
I have to build for a max rup
vast forum
and you said "you don't have to if it's over 25 sec"
strange python
Right
wet ruin
if only there was a guide explaining all the different openers depending on talents and azerites
strange python
There's this thing called pandemic
strange python
That extends your debuffs/buffs
crimson palm
strange python
lol
strange python
So your 3 point rupture at the beginning gets extra time on it from the second rupture
you don't have to have 6cp
wet ruin
I am actually interested as well
wet ruin
how does it work hasubaka
strange python
...but you waste CP
vast forum
so?
strange python
So that's not good
vast forum
ah
strange python
You don't want to do that
vast forum
i see
well i guess i've been playing wrong this whole time
my 99.9% logs could have been 100% if only i met you earlier
strange python
Oh man I am trembling in your 99.9% logs lol
vast forum
it's not like combo points have really low value outside of bleeds 🙂
strange python
I'm sure if I had your gear I'd be right there with ya
vast forum
sure you would
dull crypt
I sense sexual tension
strange python
oh bb
wet ruin
@strange python how does pandemic work
strange python
It adds extra duration to your debuffs when you refresh them
crimson palm
You sure do know a lot for a guy who's blue parsing on heroic and hasn't stepped into mythic
vast forum
hmm
quiet radish
Also is vision not recommended for a minor for most fights? I followed a icyveins that recommended that
strange python
I know right 🙂
fleet anchor
so the guy asked
what to do when you're at 5cp when you're supposed to 2nd rupture
You just Mutilate and get to 6CP. The pre-Exsang 6CP setup is pretty much a universal DPS gain from every test I've run so I'm not seeing any reason not to do it.
fleet anchor
If Exsang isn't up, Rupture CP really doesn't matter though
vast forum
@quiet radish only recommended on wrathion
@fleet anchor we were talking about pre-exsang rupture tho
and i said
fleet anchor
Yeah if it's prepping for Exsang then you just go up to 6
vast forum
overcap CP for 6cp rupture
but mr pandemic over here tried to teach me that overcapping CP is bad
strange python
hi i am mr pandemic
fleet anchor
I mean usually it is, but the gain for setting up a bigger Exsanguinate tick benefit is worth it
vast forum
who woulda thought
and here i was spamming mutilates at 5cp outside of exsang preparation 🤔
quiet radish
CoS better then or a minor focusing iris my raidbots for a patchwork indicated CoS
CoS= conflict of strife
strange python
You seem very offended mr 99.9
lost horizon
and strife
vast forum
i don't like people spreading misinformation
lost horizon
and
vast forum
people come here for advice and giving wrong advice is just garbage
strange python
Then someone should fix the guides cuz they literally say garrote -> rupture -> garrote -> mut -> rupture -> exsang lol
(with vendetta in there)
sullen pagoda
are u actually arguing the same point
vast forum
it says mut to 6cp if you are using CT
no, he's arguing that using mut at 5cp is wrong
wet ruin
they are not saying the same thing
vast forum
and i'm arguing that it's right 🙂
fleet anchor
It's a combination of optimizing the length of your Exsanguinate Rupture within Vendetta + lust buff, while also gaining like 3-4 extra Rupture ticks per Exsang cycle given average Haste levels
strange python
Actually the rotation you're describing is not in there at all
serene osprey
"Note: Opener 1 is a very minimal DPS gain. If you find all of this too confusing, then simply go with opener 2."
Should be the takeaway for most of us tbh
vast forum
we're here to give advice for optimal play, if you find optimal play confusing, play whatever you like 🙂
strange python
Opener 1 is a completely different opener than he's describing lol
crimson palm
Just go play a dh mate
strange python
No mention of CT in it
wet ruin
@strange python the original question was exactly after the 5cp CT in the opener
sullen pagoda
first opener is 0.2% gain iirc so just forget about it
strange python
Oh whoops I never saw that lmao
fleet anchor
I mean, just follow the rule of thumb-always Exsanguinate after a 6CP Rupture. Outside of that, there isn't too much to remember about that setup.
vast forum
the only "confusing" thing is remembering to CT if it's 5 and rupture if it's 6 in opener
fleet anchor
Going for CT at 5 is basically a minor mitigation of CP waste
Which has a small benefit, so technically optimal
But not really overly important
strange python
So I'm not technically wrong
vast forum
yes you are
the question was very specific
"if i get 5cp from first mut, then cast CT, then cast 2 muts and land at 5cp again, what do i do?" was more or less the question (not word for word)
i said use mut
strange python
Word yeah like I just said I didn't see the CT part, my bad
lone junco
re 6cp rupture. I used to double garrote in legion cause of the cheap garrote to set up for that big NS vanish rupture exang.
sullen pagoda
@fleet anchor in situation he described how big of a loss is a 5cp rupture
lone junco
Good to see exang back in business
vast forum
i don't think you can sim specific cases of "if it lands at 5cp"
lone junco
other way around, the only loss is the E cost of the mut, where E is getting wasted right and left.
fleet anchor
I don't know the exact difference off hand
vast forum
because whatever you write in apl it will use rupture and it doesn't filter by how many CPs you had in each iteration
fleet anchor
I definitely tested different CP thresholds for the pre-Exsang Rupture and max_cp_spend was the top so I just went with that. 😛
sullen pagoda
i wouldnt be surprised the difference is barely there even
fleet anchor
Wasting a couple CP is hardly a major concern in this build when Envenom hits like a wet noodle
vast forum
tbh, the dps between vanish/vendettas is low af
lone junco
yeah. it is silly how bad the gap is.
strange python
also #rude to whoever was calling out my blue parses. I'm barely even 470 and have no mythic gear lol. If you look at the parses for my ilvl i have tons over 90%
lone junco
but its the benefit of the spec. Open, die, get rezzed. do your vanish, exang, and you can die again.
@strange python not mad at a heroic champ.
it happens.
I mean really.
this is beautiful
fleet anchor
If you want the napkin math:
1.2k DPE for Envenom vs. 239k DPE for Mutilate basically lets you convert 5-6 CP into 1k DPE advantage on 35 Energy, so 35k damage or so. So every CP is worth around 7k damage (pre-crit) on average. So if you are overcapping 2 CP you are wasting 14k base, probably 19k damage with crit.
Average Rupture tick is about 8k for me, which means that gaining 3-4 ticks by optimizing the Exsang duration is 32k damage or something, vs. 19k from the CP.
Science
😛
lone junco
239k DPE Mutilates means we are spamming Mut.
fleet anchor
All that is doing is subtracting out the value of Mutilate from Envenom
The DPE advantage becomes 1k, which is essentially what you are converting your CP into
strange python
Those aren't my logs I don't even know what I'm lookin at lol
Wish I could hit 400k+ bursts
One day
lone junco
@strange python its just a strong open. no stars or tendys
strange python
I really need to server transfer, I can't find any mythic groups that want new people
womp
lone junco
Its literally just this.
the vanish gg is that second bench
But if anyone hasnt seen what energy looks like these days. capped from 0 to 115 is interesting.
wet ruin
its also not a 400k burst but yea
lone junco
BRO we arent arguing about that opener.
fleet anchor
I mean, I'd say the burst is slightly misleading/irrelevant because realistically there are a bunch of openers that do the same amount of DPS that have lower burst peaks in WCL
fleet anchor
Since all that really matters is what you cram in your 20s Vendetta + lust.. and some of the sequences have more in a smaller period if you Exsang early vs. a delayed Exsang
But do the same damage
So one will have a higher burst peak than the other but doesn't really mean too much
Usually when I do logs analysis I just set up a filter to show the damage done with Vendetta up
But yeah energy is pretty crazy atm lol
Basically a non-factor
fleet whale
energy isn't even really a resource anymore lol
fallow breach
Cries in outlaw rogue
strange python
if you are running deeper strat do you only envenom on 5/6 CP?
undone nacelle
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
summer cedar
Gorak sims 2k lower for me than Extravagant Epaulettes, but i see 100% of top logs playing goraks...
fringe socket
when do i want to use condenced life force? right at the start of combat with my burst?
sick oyster
thanks for the quick math @fleet anchor !
vital haven
goddamit am i gonna have to get another azerite piece
how exactly does clockwork heart work
same setup but 2 mins instead of 3
fringe socket
if im using deeper stratagem do i mutilate when i have 4cps to get to 6 or spend them at 4
grizzled jay
@strange python You always Rupture with 6CP if it is with Exsang, otherwise 5+ for Env/Rup like it's 4+ without DS
strange python
thanks
fair sail
hi all what your setup corrupto rogue power :p
bleak spoke
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XLchYA8xaPQ9Br72#fight=22&type=damage-done&source=19 did i screw up dramatically by not casting vendetta insta in the last phase
i didn't want to lose vendetta uptime on taking the gate and shit on the first drop but i think it might have been awful
@vital haven clockwork heart is hard timed in combat, like it procs every minute on the minute
so you're guaranteed the stats on pull
cobalt pelican
if you lust that late there's no reason to not fire noodle ass vend early in last phase
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/OQCJ1Rm.png is this the manz you're looking for
yeah fairy i think i literally lost clf cast
cobalt pelican
and with these timings you could prolly get a p2 vend just fine..
bleak spoke
in last phase
like i'm 100% wrong i just realized
i didn't have clf vendetta in lust
just vendetta at the bottom of lust
holy fk i'm an actual inter
cobalt pelican
idk carapace is wack man
we transition at different times every week
and sometimes p2 randomly takes
twice as long as normal
low girder
i'm in the back group
cobalt pelican
i just gave up even trying
low girder
kms
odd nebula
vendetta during mauts reflect or save? lol first time back here since exang and i obliterated myself
with cloak
cobalt pelican
kinda depends on killtimer
you likely have enough time to use it after reflect just fine though
odd nebula
ty ty!
fleet whale
it's frustrating to see that if i drop IS 2 in favor for a few expedients and it ends up being a 5.3k sim loss
main blaze
Is clockwork heart and blightborne infusion close?