in jy
#assassination
tropic ocean
dunno when the zap scaling outvalues the dmg from crit crit dmg in junkyard
probably 24 or 25
idk
gray briar
doeas fan of knives dmg kill explosives?
When i click an orb in my target, go near it and spam fan of knives... i have the feeling it goes down^^ problem is, with all the others in the grp maybe someone else dmg the orb.... so does FanoKnives dmg the orb (when it is selected for target)?
tropic ocean
i dont think non targeted abilites can hit it
but not sure
I just kill them with mutilate/envenom
sour wraith
You can check your explosive damage to see what you're doing to kill it if you use a dps meter
humble tiger
Ok, noob question:
When i put rupture on a target that has 2sec of vendetta left on it, is the whole rupture duration more damage?
I always reapply it at the end
tribal obsidian
No
Only the part ticking during vendetta
So unless your in pandemic window, you're probably lowering your DPS by doing that
lethal sinew
Any alpha players? or just people whove been watching closely. wondering what everyones experiences are so far
shrewd night
Rogue is always going to feel slow at the start of an expansion. Nothing will change that.
shrewd night
Deciding on what to play during alpha 
lethal sinew
i mean id prefer if i didnt end up rerolling after getting to 60
strange python
Yeah I mean you’re in the Rogue Discord. We love Rogue play style here so our opinion is gonna be biased ya know 😂
lethal sinew
im also biased towards rogue
ive been playing nothing but tbh
but im thinking of changing possibly
strange python
My opinion? Play Rogue. It’s never been bottom tier in any expansion, for any content
lethal sinew
true
but i dont really like outlaw and its gona be the staple for M+ content anyway
strange python
Not necessarily
lethal sinew
most likely
shrewd night
Not sure how you could draw that conclusion.
strange python
Target caps will change the meta
lethal sinew
but you right
we'll see
and yeah true, target caps
not sure how i feel about target caps
shrewd night
You will not be able to make any informed choices on what you enjoy until late beta. Anyways, this is a conversation that seems to be more appropriate in the general section.
strange python
For low keys Outlaw will probably still crush, even harder than it does currently. MDI style pulls will shift slightly and there’s reason to believe Sin or Sub will excel in anything 8+ targets
lethal sinew
true true. im done anyway, got what i was looking for.
strange python
🤙
tropic ocean
pro tip
steep plover
Jesus boys mecha rings, cara daggers, raden head all in 1 day, raised my dps by 7k
tropic ocean
just play what you enjoy
deft obsidian
Still prefer sin in M+ currently. Rolling buffs is shit now and you’ll be rolling less but still feel pinched by a shit roll in SL
lethal sinew
cause alot is gona change
tropic ocean
thats a brain issue, not a rtb issue tho
deft obsidian
You enjoy the current outlaw system?
tropic ocean
I only play outlaw in boost keys as I don't like the general playstyle (limited aoe, rtb) but the logic is incorrect people keep thinking they lose/do low dps due to rolls
but thats not the case
🙂
and personally, I made the exp that whenever I play outlaw tanks are just afking half the time so my buffs/alacricity drops
while when I play assa they chain like in olympics
deft obsidian
Yeah which is so sad
Despite me saying please let me drop combat kekw
I think they’re moving in the right direction for SL outlaw but I still find more enjoyment in sin. Feels more fluid.
turbid osprey
does anyone have a pov video of exsang on nzoth mythic?
starting prog next week and trying to do some research
shrewd night
Depends where your RL wants your cds
deft obsidian
Yeah up or down duties but if holding for boss it makes life easier for you on prog
shrewd night
Tbh, if you are going down as sin, while holding cds you wont do jack shit. Im just the slowbot for all the phages downstairs lmao
deft obsidian
Yeah when I did go down on prog to cover a death/dc 
it was just holding cds, slowing phages and “help” on synapses
turbid osprey
just been trying to think ahead since cds seem more important when playing exsang
whereas tb was just, press tb on cd
wary ice
I think the only delay is the vendetta for 2nd vanish w/ exsang (i mean really with 3x SS)
everything else should just about line up
turbid osprey
do you hold 3rd exsang for 2nd vend always btw? think it comes up ~25 seconds before?
plain thistle
no, you hold vendetta for the 4th exsg
turbid osprey
ahh ok
since you have to wait a bit for vanish to come up to align with that vend anyway right
plain thistle
yup 🙂
turbid osprey
cheers
bleak spoke
@tropic ocean "and personally, I made the exp that whenever I play outlaw tanks are just afking half the time so my buffs/alacricity drops
while when I play assa they chain like in olympics" 2meirl4meirl
play outlaw and you sit there going "hello why are we afk" play sin and you don't drop combat until the healer is begging in /y
tropic ocean
+1
bleak spoke
i'm just glad that basically more than 1/2 of my m+ team (+1 or 2 substitutes we like to play with best) have all played rogues at this time
so whenever i say "myyyyy alacrityyyyy" or "let me stealth let me stealth" someone is always there to simp for me and shout down whoever wants to chain or to afk 
tropic ocean
😄
bleak spoke
legit they don't understand until they've felt alacrity drop, or they see the difference between opening triple garrote and not on their own characters lmfao
inland gull
i dont have outlaw exp, but usually in keys tanks warn me at start if they chain a lot or no
wary ice
I usually say something like "pull big, dont chain", or "chain late" in pugs
its ignored but i tried
floral shoal
Tanks can chain if they don't drag the current trash towards the next, you can restealth if you stay a bit away when killing off leftovers.
main blaze
Yeah I try to run back a little too and that seems to help
tropic ocean
chaining per se isnt bad
just most pugs chain bad
they chain when mobs have 20% or less life
good chains are killing the hard mobs off the pack then chain into next
turbid osprey
is the main thing hurting me here my azerite? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/et2hBPo2jHZS3PArC1cHNs neverlucky on raden again this week 😛
CT sims about 50dps worse than PB for me on ST so i take it all the time for cleave
young vessel
heee ladies
tropic ocean
is exsang even simming higher for u than tb?
young vessel
and elaborate planning
turbid osprey
just about
praying for cara chest + dagger this week after raden trolled me again
getting goraks on weds with resi, though think my shoulders are probably the only ok piece there lol
+working on the mecha rings STILL
cobalt pelican
seems unlikely you should be playing ct or exsang tbh
cobalt pelican
mm fair i guess
turbid osprey
probably did last reclear of mythic now until nzoth is dead as well so
turbid osprey
if i dont get stuff from cara ill be saving for the bomber jacket
shut garnet
tropic ocean
so 200dps or smth difference between pb ct
turbid osprey
70 dps in it for PB but CT would better whenever theres cleave so
tropic ocean
would take ct 100% of the time
turbid osprey
oh raz' one?
ill have a reread, been a while since i read it last fair
dreaming of replacing coral forevermore
turbid osprey
bad stats on the wrathion dagger 
two haste crit 475s or even haste mastery 475s would be fine i think
but 1 haste/crit 470 and one crit/vers 475 is not so good
shut garnet
do u go x2 wrathion dagger in m+ cuz critvers
or do you at least take 1 cara dagger mainhand because of ilvl
cobalt pelican
the stats on weapons is so small it's barely ever relevant
wrathion dagger stats kinda fine
turbid osprey
guess its the ilvl of the carapace daggers then?
gleaming ravine
Is it worth it to masiv buy versa corru for rated?
hallow obsidian
@gleaming ravine i think u need the pvp forum for this
gleaming ravine
Wdum?
strange python
Is what he means
@hallow obsidian
if u look in ravenholdt guide there is an opener for every build
No Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade
Garrote
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Rupture
Vendetta
Mutilate
Toxic Blade
Mutilate if less than 4 combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote hits 5.4 seconds or less when talented into subterfuge
hallow obsidian
could it be that this is my best simming build without shrouded suffocation and exsaguinate?
any chance i can give you my pastebin and u can check ?
hallow obsidian
strange python
how much haste u got?
strange python
you will when u get better gear 🙂
tight gate
SS/Exsang build only took over for me when i reached ~60% haste unbuffed. Before that youre probably better off with Double Dose + Toxic Blade
hallow obsidian
i managed to salvage this at 500 damage loss for a different playstyle
is plummage on the gcd?
strange python
no
fair aspen
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
red pagoda
so how do you use gcb? before every second exsanguinate?
strange python
so im just coming back to mut after being away for a long time, is clipping envenom still a thing you need to watch for
dull crypt
not with the haste build, as you'll energy cap before envenom buff drops
with low haste you gotta look at pooling energy and not clipping yeah
strange python
For haste build, do I really cleanse my tendies off my h shards and replace with exp3? Feels weird
red plaza
Do you like RNG? Don’t cleanse. Consistent pulls? Cleanse
strange python
Word
strange python
24% haste from 1 Exp3? I assume that’s after haste procs, during combat
distant lava
tentacle on shard is 35 corr
frees up corruption for rank5 expedient
which is 21 actually not 24 @shrewd night
shrewd night
Thats french math, and we all know thats inaccurate
crimson palm
french never win
outer kernel
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5Fb43QYiJVwBC1zWUqu4bK looks good but i like way more to play with blood of the enemy in major
strange python
looking good is a dps increase
sullen pagoda
4min sims 
mellow pier
U guys dont use 2min sims cmon
outer kernel
so many bosses going down under 5 mins
mellow pier
A lot under 3
tulip sphinx
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
indigo mulch
Is there a haste cap for sin? Or should we just stack as much as possible while running exsang?
sand whale
on the higher end haste drops off but simming is better, with 1 more expedient for me personally vita completely falls off in favour of dice for ex
indigo mulch
I mean my gear is pretty trash so i don't think that is happening anytime soon.
sand whale
but we're talking like 70%+
indigo mulch
I'm almost at 50% atm
sand whale
haste away my fren
indigo mulch
But like procs and such puts me at almost 180% haste. Dosent that mean its wasted? 😮
strange python
dont think theres haste caps but there's breakpoints where i saw my sims demand i gem other stuff
sand whale
nah procs aren't wasted
strange python
but it's hard to make that out and remember at which point that happened
sand whale
think a lot of us at that haste level can still run gale, mecha rings and what not
at least from the recent sims I saw
there was a point where my mecha shoulders was on par with goraks XD
indigo mulch
I mean my gear is really bad compared to you guys but sims shows gale to be better than the other trinkets i have.
balmy condor
that makes sense
sand whale
yep but factor in if you get to stand in it for full duration
tropic ocean
@sullen pagoda
noice
if I lower sim by 1min and double corruption i sim close to my arms
👍
balmy condor
ez
sand whale
fast nacelle
hmm formless void only sims higher than bote minor in 2 min fights for me
tropic ocean
actually
racing pulse t3 sims higher than honed mind t3
for me in final setup
by 328 dps
gentle belfry
Would these be ideal to put exp3 on? [Overclocking Bit Band][Logic Loop of Division]
drifting cloud
yes if they are 465
gentle belfry
like, no question?
mellow pier
Yes
drifting cloud
no question for raiding
gentle belfry
so is 3x SS 3x Heart bis? Or is this just a parsing gimmick? Pretty much all I see on WCL
tropic ocean
3 ss 2 hod 1 bbi
gentle belfry
ty
tropic ocean
but the difference between ilgynoth shoulder and gorak tul is ~400ish dps
so if u cant get gorak tul, ilgynoth will serve u well too
gentle belfry
word gotcha :)
lean marten
Ausr i saw u post in skyhold u class traitor
icy oasis
Is here anyone who can help me with my DPS? Look at my logs?
strange python
link it
wooden knot
when yall talk abut gorak tul, you're taking blightborne infusion in the second row? or nothings personal
tropic ocean
keep dots up 100% of the time
exsang on cd
stop overcapping so much
refresh ur dots in pandemic
u wasted a lot of rupture/garrote duration by refreshing them too early
lone junco
I cant tell if the first garrote dropped properly before the vanish
Looks like a no.
lean marten
vanish then 4 garrotes?
icy oasis
I fixed opener useing this now:
/castsequence reset=45 Garrote, Rupture, Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, 13, Vendetta, Exsanguinate, Blood of the Enemy, Mutilate, Mutilate, Crimson Tempest, Mutilate, Mutilate, Envenom, Mutilate, Vanish, Garrote, Envenom, Garrote, Mutilate, Envenom, end
where I can
shy dust
Why not learn the opener
strange python
o.O
lean marten
u press 1 button for 30s??????????
shy dust
Instead of relying on a macro
shy dust
That can make mistake when it comes to the rotation
sullen pagoda
Rh discord bringing the content again
lean marten
thats either horrifying or a great troll
sullen pagoda
any swifty fans in the chat
lean marten
kekw
tropic rover
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone junco
with DS, its probably not as bad. cause you will mut twice.
lone junco
lean marten
400iq just run a quick sim and write a cast sequence in that order
lone junco
the vanish g r g is awkward. wouldnt you just rupture prior for the 6cp rupture.
and the timing is really far apart. is that a function of the macro lat?
lag
w/ gl
quartz depot
Wut
vital haven
ye if you wanna get used to the opener just practice on a target dummy
sullen pagoda
you wont get used to it by having it automated
sand whale
best way to get use to it is do it lol but like noobe said your macro seems to be not casting on gcd
icy oasis
I'm practicing on dummy but in raids I was using macro when I could
tacit pebble
i thought they made cast sequences like that not work anymore lol
icy oasis
Apparently not
I had same in Legion with Capacitor though "hey why not here with it too"
lean marten
wtf happens when u run out of energy and it misses a cast or u wait for energy and the cast sequence resets
that just seems kinda ape
lean marten
what if u press mut but u didnt have energy
does it go to the next mut
and make u env with like 3 cp?
sand whale
just don't use it period you can justify it but we can't help you until you try it out and work on proper dot maintenance because outside of those macros is probably where you are losing a bunch of dps
icy oasis
It need to cast to go to next spell
lean marten
to practice opener just do it bit by bit
start with g, r, g, trinket/vend
then add
g, r, g, trinket/vend, mut
etc
just keep building till you're comfortable
cuz u will never learn it having it automated for u
as others have said
icy oasis
Sorry I'm on M+ atm so respodnign slow
atm I think I can perform my opener from " hand"
that macro was more for learning curve
Ok, so capping energy, refreshing blinds sometimes to early. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks
sand whale
if you can log a run without it, if it looks the same there's improvements to be made, especially dots and cp wastage
humble tiger
anybody have some first hand experience with the Bleed corruption setup infexious is using?
is it worth working toward that insted of just blind stars for afk damage?
steep plover
The expedient stacking build?
humble tiger
yeah that one
steep plover
With exsanguinate
Thats the meta build rn
Alot of people are running it
But its better to just stack expedients and then swap to exsang/ct when sims say its better
humble tiger
so i'm gonna need a lot of echos then 😄
tropic ocean
yeah theres ppl that have first hand exp with that
humble tiger
is there a written guide on that so i don't have to watch that 5 times?
humble tiger
ooh sweet!
thanks
guess i was by far not the first one to ask 😄
that's also good for dungeons i guess?
tropic ocean
Question pops up from time to time
it is, except for the expedient stack
Besides some exceptions
steep plover
Crit becomes more of a priority in m+
Haste less so since u usually have multiple targets
humble tiger
i'll check out the guide and think about it.
Still unsure if i will go hard in assa or outlaw
don't like assa on SL alpha for now, so much upkeep
tropic ocean
depends where your focus is at
Both can do the highest content while assa has the upper in raid
And outlaw in m+
(Outlaw is significantly easier to gear too, both for raid and m+)
humble tiger
easier because it doesn't requite that expedient stack setup?
steep plover
If u want u can assa for raid amd outlaw for m+ but i just assa both cause its easier for me to do that and not much of a loss in m+ if ur geared right
tropic ocean
No easier cuz i use same traits for all pretty much
Assa needs different azerite for raid and different for m+
steep plover
How is outlaw in raid @tropic ocean
tropic ocean
So 2 chest 2 shoulder 2 helm
And 3 of those items are vendor exclusive
Well it has less st than sin but also doesnt need to sacrifice st for cleave so
humble tiger
true that
steep plover
Ye fair
Idk im having a good time with assa, i can keep up usually in aoe amd cleave and then usually destroy st compared to everyone else
And i find it fun
I just wish subtlety wasnt dog shit that was fun too
quartz depot
but my evis does 0 damage
tropic ocean
but it does 🤔
quartz depot
feels so shit without shuriken combo tbh
obtuse perch
why does haste loose so much value on aoe? is it just for FoK?
keen moss
is it worth downgrading from 480 azerite to 465 if my 480 pieces all have shrouded suffocation
turbid galleon
Sim it
worldly fable
gentle belfry
Are socketed 465 items suitable for exp3? Or is ilvl that much better for scaling? I have 2x exp3 on my WS rings but dont know where to put the other 3 of them I have
strange python
u got any good 475 items?
tropic ocean
expedient doesnt scale with ilvl its always 12%
stat difference is small between 465 and 475 but still u want to aim for 475
gentle belfry
Worth putting on exp3? https://gyazo.com/ca6b004901a95151eed33495b1e2305f
no haste :/
strange python
I would say pants is more important to have 475
woeful minnow
well what do you have
strange python
since it gives a lot of stats
gentle belfry
I have like 20 times lol https://gyazo.com/af64733bb8ca2eefb75b20ab4b84fdf7
most recent ^
gentle belfry
3mins
woeful minnow
...3 mins dslice maybe
gentle belfry
hectic yeah
8/12 bosses in Nya are ~3min cleave fights, no? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&faction=2
tropic ocean
so i need to downgrade my itemlevel to do more dps?
sullen pagoda
yea idk about that one mate
vast forum
i mean, sure, there is cleave but you don't want to gear around the aoe dmg as assa rogue
sullen pagoda
when u want to sim for raid either sim 3min ST or 5min ST, most people sim 5min thats the standard
and yeah no one brings assa rogue to do aoe
strange python
force multiplier on wep?
gentle belfry
I see, that helps thanks :)
tropic ocean
oh yeah he should
gentle belfry
yes youre right lol ty
tropic ocean
😄
gentle belfry
these are all pvp placeholders; setting up raid spec for the first time 
Anything incorrect here for general Nya simming other than fight length?
gentle belfry
and that :P
sullen pagoda
looks fine
stray pumice
Would be better to buy a lot of exp2 or just 2 exp3?
viscid hill
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lethal bobcat
yo... would you rather put expident on a crit/mastery gloves 475 or haste/mastery 465?
lethal bobcat
ye i did do taht after asking xDDD
scarlet sequoia
so why ask
lethal bobcat
mb
gentle belfry
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/diKD62knemaTApRStPEMMq Would anyone suggest reallocating the Exp3 (aside from rings) to other pieces than the ones shown?
scarlet sequoia
why would it matter what piece its on
gentle belfry
In the interest of having them on the most long-term pieces possible
any suggestions with that in mind?
jagged axle
runic tinsel
Got our first ra-den kill yesterday. Got gold and AP...
void veldt
does garrote give 5CP with 3 shrouded?
shy dust
No
strange python
no
shy dust
Damage part stacks
lean harbor
i got quite lucky with gear on my rogue
when i rerolled it for reclear
managed to get socket vita first kill xd
strange python
grats
void veldt
thanks
strange python
seems normalish
post a top gear sim if you want
then we can see if thats really all you can do right now
storm lava
oke
shell atlas
Is there any LFG chanels here?
rancid bobcat
your gear is what could be called not that great so
mainly because your gear overall is heroic ilvl
slapping expedients on your gear does not automatically equal success
lone junco
belt isnt ideal
but yeah. all the components are there. Missing 480 azerite to really pop
@storm lava before getting too sad about your sim. try doing a gear compare with your exact kit, and swap in 480s for all the azerite. see what that does for you.
SS is such a large portion of that damage profile.
shell atlas
Well ppls like me, that my guild Will never kill mythic cara or Raden, have to BE happy with the 460 ones
rancid bobcat
vendor azerite
can fill in just fine
not "just" fine but probably gets you 90% of the way there
shell atlas
Yeah, i know shame that we are stuck at 4/12m
rancid bobcat
sims don't lie about your gear, so if it's low, your gear is just low
shell atlas
I night consider leaving idk
lone junco
yeah. Azerite vendor is where i get 480s
rancid bobcat
thats what u get for gamble
shell atlas
Yeah i know at least One was good for aoe
Só if i get it tomorrow
A good One for st its worth
strange python
investigating 
solar flicker
is bote simming better for you than clf?
distant lava
I mean at equal item levels the difference between those 2 shoulders
solar flicker
and ct is for the big boy pumpers
distant lava
are really slim
no
ct is for the high haste boys
he looks like he has enough expedient for it to sim higher
solar flicker
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uAjMwkLvGaR715zaLhYSaB
we have the same amount and poison bomb is still simming better for me
also clf
strange python
yeaa you need ilvl
storm lava
@strange python oke haste thats what dj said
distant lava
and nobody uses clf cause it's annoying and lines up poorly with short fights or the later fights
storm lava
ty for your help
solar flicker
yeah i hate the shit dj
but mr robot says its over a 1k dps diff over bote
for me
grave trail
what spell q are u guys playing at
distant lava
@solar flicker ye but mr robot doesn't know it's shit on nzoth for example
woeful minnow
I didn't know people still used mr robot
woeful minnow
no askmrrobot is literally a thing
distant lava
specially since he was linking raidbots sims
yeah I know
but that's not what he meant
woeful minnow
possible
steady flame
pulling 20k less dps than you can sim is a bummer
gentle belfry
Anyone disagree with the use of Exp3 on the OH/Boots of this sim? Better to save/Use elsewhere? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j7tVpviZeVc1YsU9AAWL3u
rancid bobcat
only better to use elsewhere if you actually get better pieces
rancid bobcat
hes got some higher ilvl pieces in the sim they just dont have sockets
so of course they arent picked
solar flicker
was about to ask why you’re simming higher than me with worse pieces but its only 3min
pale zodiac
gentle belfry
I expect to at least start farming 4/12
and yeah, sockets are the issue' havent even gotten to the point of socketing
cobalt pelican
then maybe save one for wrathion dagger but honestly it's like
gentle belfry
best to settle for socketed 465 then?
gentle belfry
yeah ik lol ite ty
rancid bobcat
@pale zodiac what do you think is wrong
rancid bobcat
why do you think it's wrong
strange lichen
do i want to save BoTE when vendetta/vanish are up? pretty much when i'm lining up my burst phae again?
arctic walrus
bad helm/shoulders, no mech proc ring, normal vita, 3 sockets
It's not stats, it's never stats
rancid bobcat
need a command
or some shit
!dps -> If your sim dps is low, it's 99% your gear. Sims do not lie. You are probably missing corruptions, sockets, azerite, item level, or any combination of the above.
fairy can you make commands for the bot
gentle belfry
cobalt pelican
i think only fuu has access to add commands to moroes tbh
but i actually have no idea
i'm useless green person who pays attention to nothing
rancid bobcat
what are you even good for
shy dust
Not having Gorak tuls
arctic walrus
you type it out and fuu puts it in
cobalt pelican
peehands
arctic walrus
but idk, just a shit command for people being dumb
rancid bobcat
!dps -> If your sim dps is low, it's 99% your gear. Sims do not lie. You are probably missing corruptions, sockets, azerite, item level, or any combination of the above.
@vestal wren pls
cause its quicker to type
hey mang no flame
just truths
arctic walrus
Finish typing qt
rancid bobcat
ye
imagine if u could kidney bleed on bosses
garrote rupture garrote mut blood kidney exsang
hollow vault
you want a borderline max rupt for exsang yeah? would you ever mut @ 5cp? or not worth the wasted cp
grizzled jay
for exsang you would mut at 5cp to ensure the 6cp rupture yes
fathom swift
depends on the situation
torpid linden
is this low af for my ilvl? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8x579kUxx5mwXm9bx26Kue
cuz it feels low af
torpid linden
do you think BiS azerite should be biggest priority
cobalt pelican
uhh.. idk how you'd prioritize something like that
there are easy upgrades you can get from m+ even with your gear
torpid linden
by getting lucky.
rancid bobcat
yeah aim your luck beam at your azerite
low girder
somewhat behind on cloak as well, a bigger corruption budget will help
cobalt pelican
mech set, plumage, 465 belt, echoes for sockets on your items etc are probably t he best things to target since active play time will get you towards them regardless of luck
tropic jackal
what is pandemic time on CT?
arctic acorn
tropic jackal
okay ty very much 🙂
amber quail
Is there a “CT build”?
How it work(stats-M+/ST/raid/etc)? If exist may someone link sim plz? Ty a lot✌️
arctic walrus
You take it with a lot of haste on ST and take it for M+ but run crit there
that's all there is to it really
gentle belfry
https://gyazo.com/2e4d200fcaa036832bd36c1c43858648 Is CT really the go-to for ST at this amount of haste?
arctic walrus
yes it sims correctly
gentle belfry
cool =o
Is this setup suitable for visions? or is there an entirely better setup to run?
have only ever done them as outlaw
rancid bobcat
it's fine
until something dies for vampiric speed to proc i do usually feel more squishy as assa
like for whatever reason 10 mobs beating on me as assa seems to drain my hp quicker than as outlaw
gentle belfry
wack
rancid bobcat
like people were 5masking visions at like heroic level gear with half as much corruption resistance
so it doesn't really matter
fleet whale
i just use ghastly goulash food for visions with leeching. hp becomes no issue with that for me
rancid bobcat
i mean it's not like i die, it's just i notice my hp dipping faster
fleet whale
i know what you mean. I just like using goulash personally cause we have so many buffs already in a vision
so i don't find regular food all that useful in visions
manic harness
So I'm a bit unsure of the actual mechanics of Exsanguinate. Does it half the duration of your bleed but double the power?
drifting cloud
they do the same dmg as normally, just in half the time
manic harness
so it ticks 2x as fast?
fallow otter
And the energy regen to go with it
manic harness
Yeah I just switched to the spec based on sim, but I was just wondering what exactly was happening to my bleeds
so 1/2 duration, 2x speed, got it
fleet whale
well, the energy part is nice
but is actually becoming a smaller part of exsang
like say if all your haste procs/hero makes your bleed ticks at 0.5 seconds
when you exsang and it ticks at .25, it's basically energy overflow but it's a lot of ticks doing a lot of damage
manic harness
Yeah I haven't gotten to the point of dropping Iris yet, but I'm hitting I'm capping energy due to global a lot
manic harness
Oh yes, that's what I meant
fleet whale
energy almost isn't even a resource with the expedient/exsang build, which is kind of crazy
manic harness
I know, it's sick having an action every global, love it
also kinda painful cause I'm not 20 anymore LOL
fleet whale
at the same time, rogues being locked to a 1.0 gcd screws with it sometimes
manic harness
how so?
fleet whale
can't press buttons fast enough, imagine if haste lowered our gcd
fleet whale
yeah, for most classes
manic harness
I mean, I hit Mutilate and Sinister Strike 3-4 times a second, imagine lower gcd LOL
amber quail
Yep...but start at 1,5sec and down to 1
manic harness
that would be cool to see just for playtesting though
fleet whale
it can get lower than one
manic harness
For other classes it goes lower than 1s gcd?
manic harness
isn't 80 APM a bit low?
fleet whale
no
amber quail
Never heard it can be lower than 1
manic harness
I haven't heard of that either, I thought Rogues were locked to quickest, I didn't think other classes could approach that at normal levels of haste
Then again we aren't at normal levels
amber quail
True
fleet whale
yes it can get lower
manic harness
That's kinda bullshit that Havoc can go faster than us lol
amber quail
Link something plz
signal garden
manic harness
DH friend of mine says his gcd never drops below 1.0
fast pine
How can I sim for vexiona and hivemine fights in MM?
fallow otter
Does MM = mythic?
feral flare
On that note I am surprised RB doesn't have sim modes for each boss.
fast pine
yes MM is mythic
lost horizon
fallow otter
@vital haven pretty safe just to sim dungeon slice for those 2 fights, your actual dps will depend alot on how much other cleave there is
vital haven
np
fast pine
it's wierd, CLF sims higher than blood for AOE / DSlice. :/
i really confused weather to trust the sims or just go for standard blood + plumage build
Im running this in ST
And this is my best sim for aoe
my build sucks :/
i get similar build results with hectic cleave and multiple bosses patchwork sim
fallow otter
Hivemind I would probably go blood coz the adds arnt up for long
fast pine
so you think those sims are correct ?
i mean, on Shad I see this build outperforming the standard one. But on other fights, It's tricky to make it work.
fallow otter
I think it's more about practice
We've all didn't alot it time clearing mythic so we know all the perfect spots for CDs etc for our builds
astral tiger
how do people sim Sin for M+?
fallow otter
Had to change it up when we went to 1.5 vendetta and now just doing the same
I haven't got the bosses dialed yet still screwing around with timings on nzoth for example coz i only switched recently when exp was on vendor
Actually exang just feels worse for nzoth unless you are CTing the adds
bleak spoke
@astral tiger seli sims 6t40s patchwerk for stat weights to get a general idea of what’s good because sin in keys isn’t modelled
Last I heard
fallow otter
Because everything dies so fast now I would prefer the more consistent dmg
fallow otter
Rather than the hard burst
bleak spoke
@fallow otter wait what exsang feels so good on nzoth
fast pine
yeah, but trinkets like galecaller is tricky to make work on all fights while plumage is just a dmg boost
bleak spoke
Your third vendetta on boss lines with the 4th evoke, beams and second thought harvester soaks
fast pine
im on Cara Mythic right now so I didnt manage to practice a lot
bleak spoke
So you can vanish into three garrotes and you can ct to spread poisons onto the thots
bleak spoke
Beyond that point you also don’t need to Cd the voidspawn so you just walk out cloak the evoke out of secret and just killl the boss
fallow otter
But having 3ticks of exang go off before the add dies feels shit
bleak spoke
What
fallow otter
Everything just dying do fast, I guess it all feels bad
bleak spoke
You mean on pull?
fallow otter
Yeh
fallow otter
Ye I know that
bleak spoke
You literally press v there just to do it lol
fallow otter
Yeah
bleak spoke
Like how does tb help with that though
fallow otter
Haha
bleak spoke
Like uh
fallow otter
No no
bleak spoke
You don’t need to garrote rupture garrote
You can garrote the basher caster and a random spike
fallow otter
Just mean, the more consistent dmg of DD and Tb just feels better
bleak spoke
Idk you actually lose like 2tbs to evokes tho
At least I’m of the opinion it feels awful
bleak spoke
Like if you’re on rate with 2 bleeds on the boss when you into second burn and you vendetta first global into tb
fallow otter
Boss is nuked
bleak spoke
Then you Tb again then the thots are there and evoke 1 happens
And Tb comes off when you’re dropping
And then by the time you get back to boss even if you redundantly refresh bleeds garrote is already gone and you have 7s rupture
Snd then evoke 2 happens
So you actually lost a whole tb
In that first evoke
Idk
fallow otter
Im dpsing the whole evokev2
Come back from evoke 1, tb
Holding it for evoke 1 though
Either way I think my complaint is more that because of all the damage buffs and the hp nerf, the fight fails worse in general
@bleak spoke how do you open on vex
bleak spoke
on vex i'm honestly not sure
like
i don't think what i'm doing is good
i don't think i understand how the 2t works with exsang and ct
and deeper
it feels so strange
bleak spoke
it feels like you're wasting garrote time
but you're actually not
right
cuz if you exsang at some point you do get "all" of that garrote
errr i've been benched on M since i got my third copy of the azerite but lemme find a random heroic one
fallow otter
I wanna know ideal 2 target opener and then vanish window
bleak spoke
exact 2 minute kill by the way
malding by the way
interestingly though
okay so whta happens here is garrote vexi garrote void asc garrote vexi
and the garrote on void asc happens on the first moment of the pandemic window
is the moment the exsang garrote falls off vexi
so i think that has to be kind of good
i just don't know how to position CT relative to all of this
https://i.imgur.com/Y1KXKdf.png despite this being maybe the worst kill timer known to man
and me only having uh
4? expes?
oh it's more than 4
i just have like i think a few gushings i can't get rid of yet because i'm lazy
seeing some logs where they're overwriting first rupture to max duration
oh wait no
saw a log where they used first rupture on ascendant
nibren doesn't use ct at all and he doesn't rupture the void ascendant he envenomes vexi
his first ct cast is on the add sets
arctic walrus
not reading my logs 
arctic walrus
you can forego the first rupture on the add and just have garrote rolling
bleak spoke
yeh there's no way you're not at too much energy with exsang going i guess
actually
that's a bad way to look at it
though it's hard to bleieve that rupture global isn't like at least decent 
vel do you rupture any of the adds
arctic walrus
well you're also spending a global inside blood spreading a completely unempowered rupture
ct is fine though
arctic walrus
the io leeches from iq
patent topaz
you can check logs, I personally do g on add, 2x g on vex
no rupture on the 1st add
and do the same with vanish
viscid mantle
Why have people switched to Exsanguinate over Toxic Blade for most of the fights in Nyalotha?
fallow otter
For vanish you vanish G1 G1 G2 R vend exang?
viscid mantle
and Crimson Tempest
fallow otter
For the 2 target cleave
@viscid mantle because with alot of expedients it does the most dmg along with raid having lots of cleave
Check pins for more info
viscid mantle
Oh, ok. So....the bleeds bleed even faster? lol
bleak spoke
@arctic walrus I blame explosive week
viscid mantle
Oh, ok. Thank you. I will check them out
arctic walrus
if you want to regain your honor you have to play breath mfd coral on explosive week
tiny sierra
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HzG6A4rLRxmWK1fZ/#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=183
can anyone explain to me why i did so little damage on this pull? didnt think i fucked anything up too bad and ended up with a shit ass parse
harsh sphinx
main forge
Yeah... Just enough time to not have a 3rd vendetta is going to do that
arctic walrus
you ran <39 corruption and dont fok on 2 targets
you're just not going to compete without a speed-ish kill and at least <59 corruption
humble tiger
Sup everyone, Stupid question to throw in here again:
What use is it to open with Garrote - twice? how is that useful?
(screencap from the exsanguinate build on the website)
strange python
it extends the empowered garrotes duration
humble tiger
aaah i see, didn't know that
and the first rupture is basically to have rupture up until the whole setup is finished and then into a 5cp one
thanks!
fervent jasper
@fallow otter I'm pretty sure you garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 1 for 2 targets because that makes garrote 1 get an extra tick
fallow otter
Ah ok thanks
foggy maple
So if you meet all the requirements for exang build (full exp 3 etc), no question it's absolutly the best build atm ?
arctic walrus
Unless you find some hidden secret build then yeah
torpid mesa
z
humble tiger
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
humble tiger
i appreciate the work people put into those WA's but sometimes ireally wonder how people even track anything with this blinky-oversensory-stuff 😄
uncut maple
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
grizzled jay
@humble tiger there are less blinky and less flashy stuff out there.
humble tiger
yeah i took the one from mizerok, was more wondering about some others, not a generalisation
are there any addons to help me with my opener? i have trouble memorizig the opener 1 / opener 2 from the guide
humble tiger
i heard there are addon that tell you your whoel rotation, but that feels kinda cheap
dull crypt
Also go through the rotation several times and try and understand why you use abilities in that order
Will make it easier than just remembering buttons
humble tiger
sidequestion: is there a guide that explains how and when my dot's get longer? like the extending garrote in the opener
good sugestion
dull crypt
That's called pandemic
QoL thing where if your bleed has 30% or less of its timer left you can refresh it without losing uptime, the old remaining duration gets added on top of your new one
So you don't have to wait for it to fall off
Unless it's an empowered garrote/exsanguinated bleed
bleak spoke
Any casts of a bleed will overwrite the old one
So you never pandemic an exsanguinated bleed
Because it’ll be overwritten by the new shittier bleed
humble tiger
ok so far this makes sense
always pandemic unless exsang buffed
verbal sparrow
Heard here Gale is better with higher haste than plumage, is it just optional or ?
dull crypt
You don't have to pandemic it just makes timing across the rotation more smooth
Whether you refresh with 5 seconds left or 1 makes no difference really
humble tiger
what about vendetta?
do i apply the dots after i apply vendetta so the whole duration is buffed, or does vendetta only buff the bleeds during it's duration (e.g. it doesn't matter if the bleed was applied before vendetta)
humble tiger
because i used to refresh rupture/garrote in the last seconds of Vendet because i tought they will then still profit from vendetta
so that was unecessary? 😄
dull crypt
Aye
dull crypt
Think of it this way, the game does dice rolls of how much damage your abilities deal based on the buffs you have at that moment
Not based on the buffs you had when you initially casted a dot
That's how it used to work
bleak spoke
That being said exsanguinate will snapshot your haste on cast
humble tiger
@dull crypt ok that helpes understand it a lot!
@bleak spoke i'm not sure what you mean?
(not a native english speaker sorry)
bleak spoke
So if you are bloodlusted while you cast exsanguinate
After lust is over your exsanguinate bleed will still tick as though you had list on
Lust*
That’s why something like galecallers is great with it
dull crypt
basically
if vendetta were to drop halfway during your bleeds, the latter half of those bleeds don't get the vendetta damage
bleak spoke
Small handful of stuff still does
Feral bleeds, deep wounds from arms, ignite, but they’re much more general
(And some like ignite can be overwritten sometimes too)
humble tiger
That makes sense to me, good thing.
I wrote half a paragraph about toxic blade usage while simming in the background, then exsanguinate simmed better.
So theres that 😄
Deeper Strategem:
only change for me is i use finishers at 5 or 6 cps right?
4 is not worth it
drifting cosmos
Well tb still has its place
humble tiger
@drifting cosmos any particula setting where it's better?
drifting cosmos
I'd say lower haste/less geared ppl. But I meant in practice
Plus tb is in general easier to use aka less fk ups
patent topaz
how exactly is tb easier to use?
humble tiger
btw the pandemic thing is so awesome, i'm doing lfr to test right now.
Refreshing rupture at 6 seconds left is sooo conveniant
and not having to snipe it
dull crypt
Doesn't need bleed timers
TB that is
If you accidentally apply exsang it before refreshing it's pretty useless
patent topaz
humble tiger
but toxic still needs the pooling etc right?
or can i just use it blindly?
lethal bobcat
guys is it that much worth going severe for m+ intead of expident? i saw on bloodmallet that they sim for about the same on hectic cleave
light jacinth
@bleak spoke in regards to vexiona, that log you prob looked at is a few weeks/pre vendor old
we didnt skip phase last week so it was pretty garbage in comparisson to that other log, but i did end up using CT after blood this week
i only had one t3 exp on that log 2 weeks ago 🙂
also @arctic walrus is stinky, dont look at his logs
arctic walrus
Stinky toes in those sandals
arctic walrus
@lethal bobcat yeah you dont want any haste in m+ so severe/strikethrough stacking is better
most people do after vanish
lethal bobcat
is it like a thing you have to balance the severe and strikethrough?
fast pine
well it depends on the Dungeon and afixes. For tyranical in keys where packs are 3 to 4 mobs (kings rest, workshop), i play the Haste build and it works really well, in other situations outlaw is just better
lethal bobcat
well ye but i still wanna stick to assassin...
fast pine
for big pack in most dungeons you play Severe + strikethough
with 3 SS and 3 EB
4 severes and 3 ST minimum, you can have some TAs as well
lethal bobcat
aight thanks
fair aspen
Does anyone have/know of any good WAs for tracking bleeds with Exsanguinate?
I've looked through the ones linked in the !wa command, but none of them have any way of telling whether or not a bleed has been "exsanged".
fast pine
Luxthos weak auras or infexious weak auras
rose sapphire
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fair aspen
Unless I overlooked something, I don't think it had any way of telling if a bleed has been effected by exsanguinate.
fallow breach
infexious's one does
fast pine
even luxthos. empowered bleeds are "green"
so when you exang the bleed turn from with to green
white*
fast pine
you're welcome
warm olive
Can someone suggest a good clean player/unit frame addon? I dont need fancy stuff, just the basics. I have a WA for combo points, but my eyes are still going towards the combo points on standard frame. Without removing those I will probably never get used to WA.
fair aspen
I can even see on the gif on wago for luxthos that it turns green, jesus I must be blind.
Does it work when switching targets as well? I.e. switching between two targets with bleeds on them
At work so can't really check myself
fast pine
yeah. but remember that empowered garrots are also green. So for exhang I would mostly look at rupture turning green
light jacinth
@warm olive tried SUF?
fair aspen
That might be what had me miss it in the first place then, thanks! 🙂
warm olive
I actually just did, but it didnt show castbar for target in default configuration, so I instantly dropped it. Didnt even check if it can be configured. If thats possible I will look into that again.
arctic walrus
flexing the invincible cast
light jacinth
patent topaz
I use quartz for cast bars, more comfortable imo
warm olive
Ok thanks, I will try it out again.
light jacinth
i don't think i can share profile string for it, would save you some time
but yeh you can have basically everything for it, or just use quartz
dull crypt
Are mop world bosses really still a flex
dark crag
Only unobtainable mounts are flex
quartz depot
i flex on them kids with my heroic argus mount
tropic ocean
did anyone say arctic wolf? 😛
light jacinth
i know a guy who's done 2000+ sha kills without the mount, so ye considering it's of the top rarity, id say its still flexable