replace dice with vita
#assassination
woeful minnow
every extra socket is legit 500dps
vital raptor
wasnt fun running 26 visions to get enough echoes and sockets
still missing one tho
sand whale
I spent all my effort on masterfuls for a mage instead, 10/10 worth
sand whale
@fast fog lucid minor instead of formless works out slightly in your favour
night vale
harlans sims higher than vita for me https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j9pHiLLJTQWB2bi6rjz9Fd
wierd
glacial steppe
hmm
fervent jasper
Can someone school me on the mechanics of how haste increases the rate that DoTs tick? So like the tooltip on Garrite says it does X amount of damage over 18 seconds. How can it "tick faster" without either doing more ticks = more damage or not lasting as long?
Garrote*
glacial steppe
grizzled jay
@night vale If your Vita has no hole, that would probably be why
But also the difference is 0.3%
night vale
i was simming vita witrh a socket
grizzled jay
Which is within their CI
So it's actually about the same, and chances are you'll see more consistent numbers with Vita.
glacial steppe
@night vale no goraks 
night vale
yeah got unlucky, still not got it from the vendor... shoudl have saved
sand whale
yeah I noticed that I think that's a factor but I'm simming myself to see with a 475 dice
since I have no goraks either :<
long portal
my 475 outsims vita if i use GCB and CLF also
vita adds groups damage also, though /shrug
sand whale
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uRGk1Fj9rgYnLnA5duNYKd i don't want to get sockets i don't wanna i don't wanna i don't wanna
fathom swift
do you delay your second exsang for gale?
@glacial steppe
should i line up 2nd exsang with gale then wait the 15 secs?
@errant delta
Nope you use exsang on cd and use 2nd gcb after your 2nd exsanged rupture falls off
bleak spoke
glacial steppe
@bleak spoke 3 sockets KEKW
glacial steppe
@fathom swift sounds pepega
bleak spoke
man i have a full socket set for my outlaw stuff
glacial steppe
but if its best
cobalt pelican
or 18 hours of back to back visions
sand whale
lol
fathom swift
Its not its basically using gcb on cd and its up again for next cds
cobalt pelican
then suffer
strange python
is this supposed to be our final form - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6ncRWfguXF9pjymJPup5J
fathom swift
But small delay cause you dont want to use with exsanged bleeds already up
cobalt pelican
seems pretty weak for 91 corruption
strange python
it does
bleak spoke
at those gear levels i think mastery pulls ahead of crit?
spark olive
soooo has anyone tested the whole deal of exsan for m+ and have reasonable haste/crit or stick with TB
bleak spoke
with blightborne or whatever
glacial steppe
@fathom swift so once second exsanged bleeds run out ill use gcb?
glacial steppe
ah how does it play in terms of staying inside? any bosses fucking around with that?
fathom swift
Can be annoying on raden if you chase orbs and xanesh
bleak spoke
you just lob the second galecaller's
cobalt pelican
goraks trash
fathom swift
Every other boss it's been fine for me tbh
bleak spoke
LOL
glacial steppe
i mean tbh
bleak spoke
fairy
arctic walrus
fastidious machinations simp
bleak spoke
why not extravagent epaulets then
loud brook
mythic ilg shoulders pog
glacial steppe
but then i need 475 dice 
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uRGk1Fj9rgYnLnA5duNYKd idk ilgy shoulders are a bit weirdchamp for me
bleak spoke
but sometimes blightborne just pops off innit
and it feels so good
when exsanged dots all crit
cobalt pelican
yeah and then sometimes it procs while you're not able to control your character
or
bleak spoke
and you have a cascade of fat numbers on your screen
cobalt pelican
forgets to proc at all
bleak spoke
how dare you smile
cobalt pelican
then procs 8x on a trash pack
glacial steppe
we cant have tradewinds+ss on shoulders right
cobalt pelican
i actually got upgrades from raid today
except
i'm depressed
i got pre-socketed xanesh belt
but it means i need
more echoes..
glacial steppe
ye
glacial steppe
ilgyi s haste vers
strange python
ilgy
glacial steppe
gushing better than exp 2? 
bleak spoke
still using my heroic week 1 vita lmao
no it's not
i just have it
because i do
i farmed all my outlaw stuff first because i'm a key boi
tribal obsidian
did you sim CLF?
cobalt pelican
so fugg it
bleak spoke
i'm not playing clf it's so buggy man
last time i played clf it didn't attac
it just refused
i was pretty upsetti
tribal obsidian
thought that was only pre popping it
glacial steppe
OR 475 tusks
cobalt pelican
i have a 475 gcb i'm too lazy to socket..
bleak spoke
475 tusks groce
glacial steppe
@cobalt pelican 
bleak spoke
leeching poison 
long portal
i dont either 😦
cobalt pelican
you know
it's funny i
was doing visions before raid
and just played the entire raid with leeching i think
and didn't notice
classic
bleak spoke
oofers my goofer
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aSDm3Zn4UMNUNYeyXNqBvq Epaulettes the move maybe
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/CPKMQB7.png outlaw player detected
glacial steppe
cobalt pelican
i keep saying it man but nobody believes me
clockwork heart is the future..
the chest is actually comparable to carapace at lower sim durations which is funny
not as good but
close
tribal obsidian
i use leeching in visions
dark token
its good but if you get offset even a little its ass
that can happen very easily on non patchwerk fights
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/3ou5Edv.png all natural out of the chest btw
cobalt pelican
this week was the first week i've been able to purge my kula's
and use them for outlaw
before that i was playing with
tribal obsidian
finally someone who uses expressway font
cobalt pelican
man todays raid was actually sad times
dark token
wdym every player with elvui ever uses expressway
cobalt pelican
i rolled up to wrathion after a kr run
with exhaustion
and didn't notice
and got lust 30 seconds into the fight
dark token
i did wrathion -> carapce and played carapce with VoP
glacial steppe
oof
i still have a grey parse at ilgynoth cus i afkd midroom out of range in last phase since our ranges are degen af
dark token
why everyone using formless void minor btw, i get 80% uptime on good fights and 40% on bad fights
dark token
i guess my raid just has bad classes for it then
dark token
i think our tanks use VoP
cobalt pelican
i think tanks comfortable with not dying just all play crucible in raid tbh
some are drunk as fuck and just shoot double stacks all the time though
dark token
is that not how ur supposed to play crucibl
i just spam on cd
pew pew pew...... pew..... pew....
wet ruin
@cobalt pelican I believe mecha shoulders are only better for shorter fights cuz the proc is disaligning all your cooldowns
cobalt pelican
yeah it's just the more opener-centric the sim the better they are
i think they're pretty nice to play with though
tropic ocean
@lime edge its already 80% + if they dont mostly
With both running cof pretty much 90-95%
cobalt pelican
like it always gives you an option for a reliable proc to have stuff anchored to if you know fight length isn't causing cast losses
tbh it kinda helps tanks run formless themselves i think
since they don't have access to breath and nobody cares about the tank one
so they should be tracking it themselves if they have a brain
wet ruin
I also think there is something weird with blood in the apl making it sim alot lower than guardian but can't seem to figure what it is
cobalt pelican
meh, i doubt it
i won't say it's impossible but like i've played around with a lot of stuff and not really gotten anywhere with it
wet ruin
I can't either I will try to understand what its doing exactly the next few days if I have the time
but second blood usage is hella weird
long portal
seems right
cobalt pelican
tbh the sim difference is small enough in profiles like mine that it's kinda whatever, i'm not going to try and sway people to play one or the other
wet ruin
was that for me or shax
cobalt pelican
just bote and clf in general
iris bote minors is p normal
it's what i play always when playing clf
wet ruin
its like 500-900 for me depending on fight length
cobalt pelican
it's a little more for me, like 1.2k/1.1% or so
i think i played clf most of this raid tbh but like
more and more fights are going <3min and i'll probably reevaluate for next week
wet ruin
yea, but I keep comming across stuff like this https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xeXVcgcUfjzJikH4fvpo1H
which is just wasting blood
I guess using exsang that late is not that big of a deal since you don't really lose dmg by casting it, but having an entire empowered garrote exsanguinated in a single blood seems pretty big to me
and the apl is just not doing that
cobalt pelican
that's the normal alignment i think, with the alternative being delay bote and have it have crit% outside vend
and that's just when exsang comes up with normal timings
stuff like that is stuff a player wouldn't ever do
cause they'd just go
wet ruin
its more like delay vendetta and vanish a bit to line with exang
cobalt pelican
'oh lol fights only 3:30 i can delay:
but the apl isn't tested against like
3:30 rigid fight length
it's tested on a variety of lengths for a lot of iterations, so stuff like that never really comes out as a gain
glacial steppe
hmm
cobalt pelican
even though it will be the better play
glacial steppe
it normally does gar>mut>gar but at 4:26 it does gar>rup>gar
cobalt pelican
it's just whatever gcd is most appropriate
ie. if you're at 6cp and rupture is refreshable it will refresh rupture
if not, mutilate
usually
wet ruin
its not the garrote sequence that is the problem @glacial steppe
glacial steppe
i know, just wondering
wet ruin
I will try to fiddle around with it but probably won't find anything mostly cuz I am not sure if I won't be fucking something else
cobalt pelican
you'll find it hard to see meaningful sim gains unless aiming on a super narrow scope like a very specific fight length
but eh
it's not unreasonable to say
bote and clf are .2-.3% apart in a 2:40-3:00 fight range (covers maut, skitra, hivemind, shadhar, raden), but i think i can get slightly higher value out of bote in reality
it's hard to refuse clf value on anything 3:30ish like xanesh for example though
even if clf shot half of its bolts at the wall
it'd do a lot of dam
cobalt pelican
yeah, i think that sounds about right for a reasonable paced guild
i actually don't know on carapace what to play
i want to play clf actually but the timings are so weird
wet ruin
I tried clf once but it felt weird, maybe I just didn't use it properly
cobalt pelican
it just comes up during p2 unless you lust p1
and then you either use it on wall cysts or
hold and only get 1 more cast
cobalt pelican
the opener
wet ruin
wait, is anyone lusting p1
cobalt pelican
yeah, any guild speed killing
cause you don't get the v tentacles
(not us, we slow)
feral flare
What's your ilvl Nameless? Those kill times are crazy. I'm 5/12 and we just started Xan. Probably double your kill times though on our farms.
long portal
I tried to tell my team to lust p1 but they said no...so now we stop boss damage instead ;_;
cobalt pelican
uhh idk my ilvl probably 480 or something
i play in a wr350ish 2 day casual guild
so not exactly blastings
but not feeding either
cobalt pelican
that is the opener currently
cobalt pelican
if you get 5cp from your mut you ct and exsang when rupture is up
arctic walrus
because it's about the 6 cp rupture
cobalt pelican
i don't do it in reality, mostly because i'm lazy and i don't think it's enough of a gain to be concerned with but
i guess i shouldn't advocate for lazy play
arctic walrus
we're supposed to set an example 🤢
long portal
Vop/tendie is the lazy dream
long portal
second gar gives 3
long portal
1 mut could give you 5 total
lime edge
that is just so weird
sand whale
@wet ruin does that come up a lot for you?
wet ruin
you mean the blood usage?
sand whale
yah
wet ruin
seems like it, but I could just be unlucky getting that shit iteration
long portal
if youre using gcb it actually helps line up the second exsang better xD but yeah it feels bad
cobalt pelican
it's fairly common the second set
sand whale
POSSIBLY lol I'm running a few now haven't gotten to that particular iteration
wet ruin
can you link one
cobalt pelican
usually you hit like 2:20 and
exsang is still on cd
but vend is shot because it's time
and then bote is like
ah but we last 10 seconds do i press now and stay in vend
and then exsang just happens when it happens
wet ruin
@sand whale its still a very delayed blood
yea I don't think I will just use vendetta like that in reality
could be a better play to do it, but I don't think I will
fleet anchor
I'd like to nominate Exsanguinate for one of the most unintuitive abilities ever created in WoW
😛
sand whale
I think there's room for improvement on 2nd vendetta for sure
but the one you linked was like wtf happened there
wet ruin
koji, have you looked at that
fleet anchor
At what?
wet ruin
second blood usage
fleet anchor
Pretty sure about a million times. 😛
Which example specifically are you referring to though?
wet ruin
this for example
but seems like second blood usage is almost always late
or rather not having an exsanguinated empowered garrote in it (a full one)
fleet anchor
Because Vendetta is down to 10s duration there and it uses it there in all cases rather than waiting for Exsanguinate specifically
Delaying any further would result in Crit buff loss during Vendetta
fleet anchor
Yes
long portal
the 10sec bote crit buff, i assume
wet ruin
wait, how is it losing it
fleet anchor
If Blood had been held until after Exsanguinate it would no longer have fit within Vendetta
fleet anchor
Blood always gets used if there is only 10s left on Vendetta buff
Delaying Vendetta is potentially an option but at this fight length that probably would have been a loss too because then you'd lose Vendetta time off the end of the fight
wet ruin
can something be made with the time to live
fleet anchor
At the end of the day it's not really possible to sync everything all the time without it actually being a DPS loss
daring parrot
you guys recommend VoP for first 5 bosses (clean up) or should i stick to the 2min vendetta
fleet anchor
(This is actually why I think the statement that Blood is easier to use than CLF is not quite right because I think how people use Blood right now 100% synced with Vendetta or holding CDs to manually sync them is likely worse than the sims by a fair bit. Since naive Vendetta syncing used to be what Blood did in the APL but the current APL sims significantly higher than that.)
long portal
That makes a lot of sense Koji
fleet anchor
It is possible at certain fight lengths Vendetta can be delayed though
wet ruin
it used to sync vendetta with blood for the exang build?
fleet anchor
I'm looking at that soon
I don't actually think it will be that huge of a gain though because Exsanguinate doesn't always work in intuitive ways
since it's not really a damage buff
wet ruin
yes exsang itself is not
but having an entire empowered garrote fit into the entire 10 sec of blood seems pretty big
fleet anchor
yes but for example
The delayed setup of the 6CP Ruptures is a bigger deal for Exsang optimization
Than CD syncing is
For the most part
Because it gains you more ticks
And that's the primary purpose of the ability
fleet anchor
Ideally you get everything synced up of course, but it doesn't always work with the odd timing numbers
rancid bobcat
wet ruin
cuz in reality I don't think anyone is gonna do that
strange python
casual 475 dices 
daring parrot
you guys recommend VoP for first 5 bosses (clean up) or should i stick to the 2min vendetta ??
rancid bobcat
i dont need a plumage though
wet ruin
I did get 475 dice actually might as well see if its any good
fleet anchor
Really surprised 475 Dice is beating 475 Vita for you though lol
My Dice doesn't even come close
strange python
imagine getting 475 gcb AND dice
while i get avoidant gloves
and legs
every week
wet ruin
he also has 475 ring 😄
rancid bobcat
i dont have the dice
drifting cloud
do you wanna trade my gcb for plumage
fleet anchor
I've got 475 Dice and 475 Spyglass. If only that was on my Hunter and not my Rogue 😛
rancid bobcat
i do have the boon though
drifting cloud
im not using it 3month into farm for few 100 dps
glacial steppe
your neck is 98?
fleet anchor
Anyway Annsie, I will definitely be looking into some "hold Vanish/Vendetta to sync better" at funky fight lengths to see if it does anything positive. I restructured some of the conditionals to allow for Vanish delays without breaking other logic recently so I can explore it soon. Possibly on the weekend.
glacial steppe
fleet anchor
But not sure how much it will actually help
rancid bobcat
glacial steppe
im halfway trough 93
rancid bobcat
wet ruin
I tried delaying vanish and vendetta but what I did is just delay vanish in the opener so it fucked alot of stuff 😄
not sure how to do it properly
fleet anchor
Yes there are some "hooks" in other logic
That have to be shifted around
I fixed most of it in my last Exsang APL update
But a few minor things still needed
Shifting things around for fight lengths ends up having a domino effect that isn't pleasant lol
wet ruin
yea, I guess
blood just feels better and I've gotten better results with it but it could as well be just a placebo or lucky pulls
wet ruin
never :D, the only classes that can't be rogues are the ones with hooves
so tauren and draenei
storm forum
clip clop
wet ruin
the little rpg left in the game says it doesn't
jade lantern
What's better? a 465 ilvl piece with perfect azerite traits or a 480 with decent ones?
strange python
jade lantern
I'm asking because i dont know if i should spend my titan residium or save it till i have 20k
i dont have anything to compare my 465 to
long portal
if you look at the droptimizer option on raidbots you can sim all the 480 azerite
vast forum
generally, 465 with perfect traits is better than a mediocre 480
runic prairie
with the exsang build, i know the opener. but whats the ideal rotation when Vendetta comes back up? Vendetta/trinket -> vanish > garrote garrote, 5/6cp rupt. exsang. BOTE. 5/6cp crrimson?
vast forum
depends on bleed durations but in general, you wanna maximize their uptime
for example, if you alrdy have 6 cp when vendetta is coming off cd, you can CT, vend+trinket, vanish, 2x garr, rup, exsg (with all the bleeds at basically full duration)
there is no single best answer though
runic prairie
alright. does it matter when you blood of the enemy? or keep it right after exsang?
i forgot to add that above
vast forum
depending on kill times, i like to sync 2nd vanish/2nd vend/4th exsg/2nd blood
so usually at ~2.25 you they should all be available but sometimes it's not worth delaying some CDs
but ye, if you do sync them all up, use blood right after vanish
btw @fleet anchor is there a way to test if using blood before exsang might be a gain if someone in the grp is running formless minor?
for the haste buff
114 haste isn't a lot but i'm still curious, as i always get triggered when i bote right after exsang and get a pointless haste buff 😛
fleet anchor
Ah
runic prairie
ok, thank you
fleet anchor
that's an interesting idea, not sure
Can't think of a good easy way to do it though
ripe gulch
yo quick question
fleet anchor
I could hack it locally to see
ripe gulch
why do ppl run crimson tempest on st with exsang build
vast forum
at high haste it outperforms PB
can you hack bote locally to just give 114 haste for 10 sec?
ripe gulch
how much haste
vast forum
actually 20
fallow otter
vast forum
@ripe gulch it's a sim question, there isn't a specific number
vast forum
either way, it's not unusual for it to want some crit
ripe gulch
guess it means my stats are balanced
fleet whale
idk, maybe ineffable reducing exsang/TB cd could be decent
vast forum
i have full expedient and it still wants some crit
fleet whale
i wouldn't think so though
vast forum
all my items except 485 boots have haste on them
all socketed except galecaller which is getting the next socket
ripe gulch
yh inef is shit
i dont like using it
gotta follow the sim tho
im not a calculator 
fleet anchor
4x Expedient III isn't a ton though
ripe gulch
ye ik
fleet anchor
Things start tipping more
vast forum
@fleet anchor you gonna try hacking the bote/formless thing or leave it for another time? 😄
i'm kinda interested in the result
fleet anchor
I don't think I will have time to look at it until tomorrow
But I will check some time in the morning 🙂
vital haven
thats a lot of dps @rancid bobcat
@daring parrot check your kill times and sim those fight durations with vop minor
rancid bobcat
rigid eagle
hey guys
how do we sim for m+ again
i remember someone telling me to do 4 bosses for 30 secs?
strange python
Is this worth switching to exsang build at this point?
I feel like IS3 is still throwing it off but idk. Thoughts?
balmy condor
100%
subt is stronger for most fights
the cleave with SS/subt is crazy
so simming 1 target with exsang might be 500 dps up
but the moment you can cleave
that's way more than 500
strange python
Trueee. Yeah idk why I've been running MA for so long
mild star
with deeper strat are do we still only refresh rupture and envenom at 4+ or does it become 5+
rancid bobcat
becomes 5+
think of finisher logic as max CP minus whatever
instead of envenom at 4 or more, it's envenom at max-1
maybe someday we will have 10 combo points
and max-1 still works
grizzled jay
you also only ever refresh Rupture at 6CP with Exsang up
proven talon
when do we crimson tempest now
slim estuary
Hi, I am just getting back into raiding and notice expedient is on rotation this week. Is it better to buy and stock up on expedient now for when I get the shrouded gear?
proven talon
monka
slim estuary
Cool, thanks 🙂 I also noticed that the KR trinket doesn't sim higher for me? Why do people run the KR trinket and is it an in practice vs sim thing that makes it better?
proven talon
when u have 8 expedients
and all ur gear has 0 vers
you want a kr trinket
or pvp trinket with on use mainstat/vers
vers performing better
sand whale
just CT where you usually evenom if CT isn't up or in pandemic window
treat it as another bleed ot maintain
proven talon
just checked nibrens logs anyways
i just needed to know if we use it in exs
we dont
thank god
arctic walrus
it's usually up anyway just duration doesn't matter
arctic walrus
before vendetta
proven talon
im assuming before vend
yeah
thought so
imagine we werent nerfed so many times in uldir
PepeHands
slim estuary
Should I be using exsang if it sims higher? I only have 1 expediant-1 piece and 2 SS traits
abstract elk
When should you be using blood of the enemy in the opener provided you're running master assassin?
proven talon
mut>rup>mut>garr>vend>TB>blood+vanish>env
abstract elk
thanks
abstract elk
alright, thanks
proven talon
lol
no
your ma buff starts the next global you come out of stealth (envenom)
and its off gcd so you use it as you use blood technically
so the correct way would be blood+vanish
edited again
vestal granite
Hey, so I remember Ineffable truth Corruption Level 1 brings down Vendetta and Vanish down to about 1min30 (90 sec).
As a result, when playing Exsanguinate, Vendenish would line up with your third exsanguinate.
Do we have any numbers on this? Worth it?
I havent seen a lot of mentions on this but in my mind its really good. Would love to get some Insight on this
grizzled ruin
so i wasnt playing with ct but simmed it and it sims a little bit better.Question is do we use it on 1st exanq?Cause it doesnt seem to worth wasting seconds from garrote and rupture to put that also up(for the 1st exanq always)
rancid bobcat
seems unreliable
vestal granite
Is it really unreliable when we stack so much haste already?
vast forum
i don't think ineffable is affected by haste
vestal granite
keep in my CLF and Blood of the enemy is also on 180/90 seconds alignment
vast forum
yes but you're assuming that ineffable will always proc when you want it to
strange python
@grizzled ruin no dont try to play around ct with exsang
if it goes in then its okay but dont worry about it in the opener
rancid bobcat
also ineffable will be reducing exsanguinate's CD too
while also not reducing trinket
vestal granite
so exsang would be at around 38?
vast forum
are you assuming you'll have 100% uptime on ineffable or smt?
vestal granite
maybe I remember wrong
vast forum
cuz it would take a LOT of procs of ineffable r1 to reduce vendetta CD to 1.30
vestal granite
still wonder though
grizzled ruin
@strange python nah i wont play around it but i mean poison bomb is irelevant rly-do like 1,5% of my dmg so on a lets say 2,5min fight ct should pull ahead even if not used on the very first exanq
main blaze
rank 1 Ineffable truth reduces cooldown of vendetta and vanish by 3s everytime it procs
rancid bobcat
every ineffable 1 proc is 3 seconds off natural cd so you'd need 10
vast forum
not really, it works a bit differently than tooltip states
but in essence, it would still require a lot of procs
if a single ineffable would mean 25% reduction on vendetta CD, we'd run 5 of them
just imagine the damage of constantly having SS garrotes up
vestal granite
so we dont have any numbers on it? ok
warm fulcrum
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
manic harness
hey, not strictly rogue related, but does anyone know when Masterful 3 is gonna be back on vendor?
long portal
like 3 weeks?
rancid bobcat
there should be plenty of calendars floating around
wowhead definitely, maybe reddit
fossil sparrow
hey, not strictly rogue related, but does anyone know when Masterful 3 is gonna be back on vendor?
@manic harness in 5 restocks :)
manic harness
thanks lads
fading wigeon
Corruptiin from the vendor isn't BOA right?
distant lava
correct
fading wigeon
Damn lol
echo night
Quick question, people told me to sim top gear for expedient build, but i need statweights aswell, so do i get statweights from top gear aswell or do i need to run different sims? Cause as it stands now, stat weight sim is giving alot of wrong numbers xD
grizzled jay
Weights are funky and change at a drop of a hat
keen dome
use statweight from topgear combination. Remember stat weight is not to be used to choose stuff, merely to choose your raid food
grizzled jay
Just sim top gear
shrewd night
Why would you need stat weights?
The only reason anyone would logically need stat weights is to fill out a pawn string, and lets not even start on how bad that addon is lmao
slim estuary
Should I be using exsang if it sims higher? I have 1 expedient 1 piece (saving my vendor corruption) and 2 SS traits
shrewd night
Define higher, if its within the error ratio then it wont matter. If its above the error ratio, go ahead.
slim estuary
Just want to know cause if Its recommended to use it now then I should start learning it for when I get my pieces. But obviously if it would be shitty for me to change to exsang then its probably not gonna help me get that gear anyway.
runic tinsel
the exang build without the high haste feels really bad to play. its also not hard to learn, once you get the opener down its really just refreshing dots during pandemic
rancid bobcat
the decision of what build to play usually has always been what does the most damage
it's not like you have to hit some arbitrary point before you can actually play it
patent topaz
I started playing bleed when it was 1k lower because I feel it fits the raid fights better
tropic ocean
the exang build without the high haste feels really bad to play. its also not hard to learn, once you get the opener down its really just refreshing dots during pandemic
@runic tinsel how so
The energy flow is better even without high haste
distant lava
maybe he removed lucid minor just to follow raz
idk
well I guess you do drop vigor
tropic ocean
It will take quite some haste to drop lucid
I just switched to formless void as well having 72% haste out of combat
tropic ocean
Do you have the right azerite and ring set?
lucid is worse for me for a long time no
tropic ocean
Well yeah missing a lot of haste
And no iris minor
Idk if u even ever drop lucid on dd build
drifting cosmos
No mechagon ring combo
loud brook
I go cns for prog since it helps with survivability and isn't a huge dps downgrade
cns minor
drifting cosmos
That's a solid 4-5 K in Sims I think
tropic ocean
Yy iris not as important to non exsang build
loud brook
I've been trying. havent gotten a good combo. keep getting healer ring combos
tropic ocean
yeah I feel u
I was so tilted when I got 3x healer ring in 1 day
then dropped socketed attack from behind
just keep going brother it will drop
loud brook
for sure. Only thing that i don't want to do is let go of that my sims are telling me to is the triple shroud traits. sims like 2k dps lower but i feel like it's so much more versatile
also fuck mythic carapace
tropic ocean
well u need to keep in mind (and maybe sim it) that rarely any fight in nyalotha is st
so if u have 2 adds ss stack might already be superior
also they dont suffer from downtime, as long as u can dps boss every 2 min u get 100% value of the trait
loud brook
for sure, makes me feel much better about sticking with it
what about heart of darkness number 3 vs shrouded suffocation number 3?
my chest has shroud and hod and that one's been another point of contention for myself
drifting cosmos
Yea ss + hod is good
green moss
when using the exsang expedient build where would I use CLF in my opener?
would it be in the same spot as bote or earlier?
pseudo hamlet
Before Vendetta
green moss
so gar > rup > gar > clf
loud brook
yeah, currently mega unlucky with the 480 azerite from gambling. on my fourth shoulder roll next week
pseudo hamlet
According to pin: Garrote > Rupture > Garrote > Condensed Life-Force (if chosen) > Vendetta > Mutilate > Rupture > Exsanguinate > Blood of the Enemy (if chosen) > Mutilate > Mutilate > Envenom
loud brook
and the darkheart robe has shroud and hod on the same ring which is what has my napkin math and simming into overdrive
loud brook
right now my setup is 3 shroud, 2 hod, and 1 double dose. with the third shroud fighting with the third hod for the same spot
loud brook
not possible with what i have unfortunately
it's either a third ss or a third hod
carapace chest has the hod + shroud combo that i want, but I have to live with the vex chest for now
only started progging cara this week, next week we'll prolly down it
I'm leaning towards a third ss because i don't have a 480 gorak tul shoulder to get bbi from
grizzled ruin
use cara hc chest
ancient rain
Hi, I have a question. Does using shadowmeld make your next garrote empowered? And if so, why does the sim refresh the allegedly empowered garrote with a normal garrote before using exhanguinate?
loud brook
alright ty anje, will do
ancient rain
I see
fathom swift
It's probably checking if it's buffed by subterfuge but not by ss when it overwrites
But that's still an error, prob just not looked at cause nobody plays nelf
thorn crater
ehm quick question. does the opener change with exsa and CT in ST ?
like is there a way to fit it in before using exsa?
or is there no point?
ivve checked the guide and i havent seen a mention of it
high siren
cries in Ishnu-alah
fathom swift
If your first mutilate crits you rupture exsang, if it doesnt you ct muti to 6 rupture exsang
tropic ocean
@thorn crater no
thorn crater
so basically u use CT in the raid fights for padding
otherwise PB should be better strictly for ST boss
correct?
tropic ocean
no
ct is gain on st by a good margin
if ur gear is good
and obviously superior in cleave/aoe
thorn crater
only 41% haste though i dont have more than 2 expedients on
dont have a lot of cor resistance yet
trying to catch up
is there a threshhold?
where it gets better?
cause atm harlans 465 sims better than 460 vita for me
high siren
sim with more expedients
thorn crater
i truly do0nt know how to do that without going over the limit on the crap XD
oph and another silly question
i shoudl take off the tentacle corruption from 470 dagger right?
grizzled ruin
sim it but u legit dont have to bother with that till u reach a good haste lvl
thorn crater
from cara
high siren
should be still good if not playing with full expedients, but still, sim it
outer kernel
if u play with bleedbuild and mass haste how u play with lifeforce? at start and than on cd?
last gyro
I use it 2sec before pull
outer kernel
and second time?
last gyro
and then depending on fight length
I either hold my cds for it being back u
or I use my cds and then hold clf until them back up
high siren
does it break stealth? don't have the essence yet
outer kernel
i mean i have to wait 1 min for clf
to use it with vendetta and vanish
that kinda sucks
last gyro
yeah but if fight is only 3:30 you donÄt lose any cd anyways
so it doesn't make a difference
it does make a difference since you do more dmg
outer kernel
and u use it 2 sec before pull?
last gyro
I do
api says to do
if you quick sim
but don't use it in stealth before pull
since it will outstealth you and restealth has 2sec cd
fathom swift
I use it before vendetta cause otherwise it always bugs out on me and loses a bunch of casts
Just something to be aware of
last gyro
yeah you could aslo garrot rup garrot clf
yeah
I have the feeling it bugs out alot yeah you are not wrong
good point
outer kernel
so just the ravenhold opener
last gyro
either that or before pull
outer kernel
Garrote > Rupture > Garrote > Condensed Life-Force (if chosen) > Vendetta > Mutilate > Rupture > Exsanguinate > Blood of the Enemy (if chosen) > Mutilate > Mutilate > Envenom
last gyro
but second time is completly fight dependend
outer kernel
but what i dont understand is why top raitng logs on maut for example playing for blood of the enemy
with*
fathom swift
Cause they're close and people like using bote
strange python
do you guys play only assa or also outlaw?
outer kernel
ye but clf simming 2k more
strange python
i am thinking of doing two sets // one for m+ floor clearing and then change into assa for boss nuking+
outer kernel
thats close? 😛
last gyro
clf is harder to use correctly tho
fathom swift
Yeah but some people optimize their gear around bote to begin with
They're both pretty easy tbh
last gyro
assa is fine for keys as well
fathom swift
You can't change specs in m+ unless you're zoning out and in before bosses
last gyro
also that
fathom swift
Which is gonna waste more time than it would save
strange python
would you prefer an outlaw or an assa in your m+?
fathom swift
Outlaw is prob better generally but assa is fine too
strange python
thats what i mean
last gyro
outlaw has more utility
strange python
i feel like everybody hates my class even if i outdamage the most of my teammembers
fathom swift
If you're picking one spec only to do m+ just play outlaw
strange python
ye, cause of aoe damage
strange python
assa isnt as good as outlaw
last gyro
you don't take outlaw for dmg
last gyro
assa does more dmg than outlaw mate
fathom swift
Idk about that
last gyro
nah just overall
like i said
you don't take outlaw for dps
you need correct traits on assa tho
fathom swift
Like tyrannical kr sure play assa, basically any other dungeon a good outlaw will beat a good assa
last gyro
nah I don't think so mate
fathom swift
Not by a huge margin but yeah
last gyro
I mean we can agree to disagree
strange python
i dont know where an outlaw doenst aoe out damage an assa ...
last gyro
I mean if that is what you think that is alright. yeah
strange python
since you have a 50% haste BUFF ability + aoe auto attack
strange python
xD
quasi pewter
also wrong
last gyro
like i said we can agree to disagree
quasi pewter
no we cant
last gyro
fine for me
strange python
xD
tropic ocean
where fact
last gyro
I guess you have some
tropic ocean
?
quasi pewter
do you?
tropic ocean
pretty sure uncapped aoe does more dmg than capped aoe
last gyro
Like I said you don't take outlaw specifically for dmg
quasi pewter
of course not, it still does more than assa
you dont take any rogue for damage
its not s2
tropic ocean
last gyro
see that is where we disagree
fathom swift
Its not an exact comparison, but when you look at cleave fights (hivemind, nzoth etc.) outlaw always does more overall than assa, not a stretch to assume it'd be the same for m+
tropic ocean
@fathom swift theres many factors to consider which spec will do more dps
theoretically for aoe output, outlaw cant compete though due to design of target cap and aoeability of outlaw
fathom swift
Yes thats why I said it's not an exact comparison
But people don't usually log dungeons
tropic ocean
even then its hard to compare due to differences of group
but even if the overall dps difference was 10k or smth
outlaw would still be the superior pick most likely
grizzled jay
What's with the daily "random selfie" accounts trolling here about stuff they don't know about
young portal
Referring to the build in Raz' guide and running CT. Do we force CT into exsang or do we exsang as usual and just treat CT as a bleed typically?
thorn crater
overall better
unless u got x3 5rolls in a single M+
then sure
on the correct moment
with the correct timing
outlaw better
but the higher u get on keys and more hp the adds have
tropic ocean
@young portal dont force
thorn crater
but u should get my point
young portal
@tropic ocean thanks mate
tropic ocean
kr/ws are good examples of those
thorn crater
sin will prolly have more dmg
tropic ocean
heavily depends on dungeon
and group
kr/ws for sure for 21/22, dunno about higher keys as I haven't played them
with 3 ss 3eb for stuff like ur/fh/ml etc it depends on group and general dps
if aoe dps is high there wont be a lot of difference
(meaning if trash dies fast)
strange python
thorn crater
yes
strange python
method took an Outlaw into that
tropic ocean
so?
last gyro
@strange python obviously
tropic ocean
everyone will take an outlaw into high keys
last gyro
yeah not for dmg
drifting cosmos
Not for dmg lmao
tropic ocean
also cheap shot
last gyro
also not having to use vanish as dmg cd
thorn crater
ye ofc
tropic ocean
if it was just about dmg
thorn crater
im getting myself triggered by having to waste vanish at a pull preboss fgight
cause we need insta disables
thorn crater
i would try outlaw more but i get overwhelmed by the constant energy cap. it gets me stressed
cause in sin wasting energy is like killing puppies
shrewd night
Sometimes it do be like that though
thorn crater
i have yet to use adrenaline without being capped at energy and feeling im doing something wrong
so i just quit it lol
scarlet sequoia
i’ll update the exsang guide so CT is included.
tropic ocean
do u play deeper?
strange python
CT?
scarlet sequoia
i’ll make sure it’s as clear as possible so even the most confused people can understand it
tropic ocean
crimson tempest
thorn crater
crimson tempest
strange python
ah ty ^^
tropic ocean
i dont really have hard issues with deeper
thorn crater
@scarlet sequoia btw i feel the passive aggressiveness oozing out of that statement:P made me chuckle
tropic ocean
but yeah need to be constantly pressing buttons
thorn crater
especially if u keep getting single shitty rolls lol
scarlet sequoia
not toward you
thorn crater
using AR to keep rolling lmao
tropic ocean
😄
thorn crater
i know many people hate the RTB change in SL
last gyro
raz doing so much for us 
thorn crater
but i think its a step towards the right way
too much rng
go play autobattlers if u wanna keep rolling
lul
scarlet sequoia
i do so much just to have bad players meme about me, it’s great really
last gyro
❤️
strange python
The MVP
manic pebble
I wanna try outlaw but I’m too lazy to collect gears for another spec
It’s like I’ll have to start from 0
tropic ocean
well the good part is that if u play 3 ss 3 eb
and outlaw u can basically use the identical items in m+
except for azerite 😄
sullen pagoda
outlaw has so many viable traits and shit its hard to not have some set
solar flicker
languid talon
how many exp3/sev3s do i need for assass
whats the split
and strikethrough
for M+* sry, and no echoing blades just bleeds
languid talon
stack crit mast or crit haste gear?
is that the same for eb build too, 2-3 sev rest striek
tropic ocean
well i cant answer that question for you
theres the final build that u will use
and thats what you probably want to aim for
everything u invest in corruptions before that u will need to farm again
so
🤷
thorn crater
question. should i keep one trade on nothing personal? i know its supposed to be super good as first trait but is it better than HoD?
trait****
dull crypt
for the haste bleed build?
thorn crater
yes
thorn crater
welp sim says HoD is better but is it absolute? like is 81 secondary worth the effect of NP?
royal lantern
np loses a shitton of value cus the energy part is simply not helping anymore, you are energy capped during vendetta anyway
SIM
the answer too eerything
^^
thorn crater
i only have 2 expedient traits
DS Exsa already sims way better than TB vigot (7kdps) with only 41% haste
thats why i was confused
cause i dont really get energy capped
dull crypt
i mean if you BL on pull theres no way you wont energy cap with NP
thorn crater
true