and your original you linked was 120 sec
#assassination
strange python
main adder
ah
deft vault
Are drest gloves pretty good for the exsang build?
shut willow
hi all
main adder
so you saw all my gear in bags, would you keep equipped what I have and just switch out 2 corruptions for exp 3 and if so, which ones?
shut willow
i'm having a pretty hard time playing outlaw rogue, i hate so much roll the bones... and i really would like to change my spec. So i was thinking assasination
stark echo
can you crit a garrote/rupture? does it double the bleed damange when it crits/
main adder
so should i just change all my gems to haste and re-sim each corruption for expedient?
quasi pewter
@stark echo the single ticks can crit
stark echo
oh, so its not the cast that crits, its the ticks
fathom swift
so you saw all my gear in bags, would you keep equipped what I have and just switch out 2 corruptions for exp 3 and if so, which ones?
@main adder try adding expedients in top gear and purifying current stuff see how it sims
quasi pewter
yes
main adder
ok
plush remnant
If vita, dice, gale, and plumage all sim within 1% of each other. Does a certain combo of these 4 end up better in Ny'alotha or just go with the sim for all boss fights?
strange python
i would probs play vita+plumage
hidden maple
in fights like wrathion where you run vop minor though, plumage drops in value right?
plush remnant
Here's the breakdown. Top Gear one is gcb and dice
wet ruin
@woeful minnow I mean, the 2 min was my bad, I didn't notice that but still on 5 min its not better
woeful minnow
it sims better for me at 5
fathom swift
@woeful minnow I mean, the 2 min was my bad, I didn't notice that but still on 5 min its not better
@wet ruin yes it is
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hLmAftQQTaVdsG9hE4EUP7
main adder
ya
plush remnant
You get most it's value from using it with exsang, right?
wet ruin
it might be better when you sim with SS, but its not the only option he has
plush remnant
I just don't like having to delay exsang for gcb
fathom swift
You dont delay exsang for gcb
main adder
i still hionestly have no idea what to do
fathom swift
What no
woeful minnow
get your expedients regardless then keep simming as you get more new stuff
I assume you want to keep the severes and strikethroughs for m+/outlaw
main adder
if i wear my footpads and put expedient 3 on my belt, it ups my sim to 97.2
then i gotta figure out what to do with the second exp 3
plush remnant
Would light movement help see if gcb still pulls ahead of stat trinkets?
strange python
woeful minnow
I'd cleanse tendies I guess
main adder
that sims 4k less than I just simmed
fathom swift
Movement sims arent great to figure that out
strange python
how
fathom swift
You're simming at diffetent time length darwin
strange python
yes and how many minutes is 180 seconds?
dense blaze
3
strange python
and how many minutes do his kills take?
main adder
ah
dense blaze
A lot more than 3
main adder
got it 🙂
stray imp
are we playing with poison bomb or is cimson better?
grizzled jay
CT becomes better at extreme high haste
stray imp
ok thx
red plaza
ya unless you're in a mythic guild and not progging, ~3min is a good farm kill time
main adder
ok let me put this to work, brb
mint oar
can someone w premium help me sim?
lean marten
do u even put CT in the opener? bout to quick sim it and see
dense blaze
After exsang is what the API does
young portal
No, you hit CT instead of your first env I believe after exsang
lean marten
i see, interesting
main adder
ive got 18k residuum, saving for a specific BIS piece, got sick of gambling
strange python
i wish i had that patience
young portal
Cara chest, Raden helm
mint oar
ty
dire spoke
Did somebody say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] [Gorak Tul's Mantle]?!
main adder
i have the chest 475
grizzled jay
Should I Expedient my Wrathion dagger or hold out hope Carapace ever drops a dagger
grizzled jay
They should really let Rogues trade in axe/sword/maces for daggers and the reverse lol
mint oar
Can anyone w raidbots premium help me sim?
strange python
yes just post your top gear sim
strange python
and elaborate on your problems 
glacial crown
i feel like my sims so low
woeful minnow
do top gear instead of quick sim, not much we can do with that
hollow jolt
Full GW build hm
red plaza
16 corruption chino
stark echo
i thought mine was good til i saw Darwins, i feel like i have most the right gear/talents/azerite, but he just simmed 10k over me
hollow jolt
wdym cheating
sullen pagoda
nah just memeing that shit is bad @hollow jolt
lean marten
that looks like a pvp rogue on top lmfao
strange python
gimme a few mins
mint oar
I can't sim the corruption properly
opaque relic
So I was looking forward to running expedient built, but it just sims worse than what I am running now, am I simming it wrong somehow?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ubbZ5R4nXbRUSzAk7CudRM
limber lion
Infinite Stars 3 is a bait, don't use it
dire spoke
xd
dense blaze
Stars big trap
limber lion
Change gems to haete, enchants to haste, main hand enchant to quick navi
elfin loom
should i stack expedient since we get it tomorrow? i see too many discussions about haste vs crit
limber lion
Try different essences (bote major, formless void minor possibly)
glossy wyvern
Isn't severe better when running DD?
rocky locust
dont you need SS for haste build
limber lion
And triple ss and exsang of course
wise hawk
opaque relic
I have all the haste enchants and gems (look at second highest combination). Triple SS sims even worse than 2 SS
fathom swift
Like they said its just cause infinite stars
sullen pagoda
yea whats the point of even simming is
limber lion
Try simming your build but without is3 and see how it compares then
main adder
I'm curious, if I had the echoes to buy more expedients... would you have swapped out more of my corruptions ?
woeful minnow
yes
lime edge
Thoughts on the crit verse tendy build?
stable isle
You feeling lucky?
limber lion
If you like rng
carmine dawn
is there a Sin BIS dungeon set? like outlaw is just crit/vers everything? im afraid we arent reclearing anytime soon
limber lion
Severe/Strikethrough on everything, just like Outlaw.
carmine dawn
?? not exsanguinate ??
dense blaze
What do you mean
mint oar
what would the exs build for m+ be?
carmine dawn
so also stack crit/vers gear + crit corruptions for an Assassination Exsanguinate 8.3 build?
dense blaze
I just do triple SS triple EB but you'd probably want some HOD for dungeons like KR, unsure, I play Outlaw in M+
Seliathan like playing assassination in keys
mint oar
nvm
elfin loom
so if i get as many expedient as possible, i can still easily play with let's say BOTE major, farm SS traits and be ok for M+ and raiding? or would this still be something only for m+?
bonus question: when should i use crimson tempest? only on teeming weeks?
elfin loom
F
lean marten
SS is a decent all-rounder that needs EB to really perform in m+ tho
elfin loom
EB?
lean marten
Echoing Blades azerite
elfin loom
gonna need to write these acronyms down
carmine dawn
ok let me rephrase my question. If im going for the expedient stacking ST build. what 465 pieces should i farm from keys?
dense blaze
You want crit for M+ if you're gonna be using EB
lean marten
the one with "If you attack from behind" and the one with "...then u gain haste for 15s"
i forget the names
carmine dawn
thanks. in hindsight i should have just asked for a BIS ST Sim
lean marten
overlocking bit band
limber lion
Pretty sure generally the stats are haste > crit=mastery > versa, but you should sim all possible upgrades when you get them
lean marten
or somrthing
dense blaze
Logic Loop of Division/Overclocking Bit Band
tropic ocean
@sullen pagoda how so much dmg with shit class
elfin loom
ok, so m+ would be: at least 1 EB, BOTE, as many SS as possible and expedient stacking?
main adder
M+ Blood / Raid = CLF?
limber lion
You want 3 eb, 3 ss generally. 1 eb wont do you much
shy axle
elfin loom
wonder if i can get pieces that can give me that 3EB+3SS combo
sullen pagoda
@tropic ocean gm let me come for easy bosses Kapp
tropic ocean
though its not as potent in stuff lik ws/kr/tos
lean marten
Xorm that guy doesn't have Logic Loop of Division
limber lion
You want a more st focused builds for KR, Workshop and Temple, but everywhere else, especially on fortified weeks, you never want expedients. Just stack crit/strikethroughs
elfin loom
oh, fucking icon looks the same to me x.x
tropic ocean
you dont want a st focused build in kr ws or temple
elfin loom
my bad
tropic ocean
u want as much cleave as possible
and barely any aoe
cuz pulls are 3-5 targets all the time
limber lion
Yeah nono, just tried to simplify the concept for him.
tulip panther
Hey guys, can someone help me with my top gear? I dont have premiun and i have so much interations 😦
main adder
Thank you all for the help, I really appreciate it.
tulip panther
@strange python Thx!!
I have 4 expident in my bags i want to try expident build with 3SS
gaunt aspen
Exp stack is best for sin?
next solar
69 meme, getting benched for my mage kills me for azerite https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sJ69t4ZwyoMnEMLw1cSzsA
main adder
Interesting, so with my current gear it's simming switching from TB to EXS +680 but a 1150 drop adding CT
spark cloud
so can you have the expedient corruption sit in your bags not on anything until you find a piece worth putting it on, or do you have to immediately infuse it with a piece?
elfin loom
with the possibility of half-way through repeating myself, if i stack expedient, can SS's be any good for m+? or just ST and raiding? im more or less asking because the wowhead m+ guide is basically saying to go for SS
willow pulsar
Eb build: crit>vers>mastery>haste
Hod build: crit>mastery>vers=haste
Eb build for huge aoe dungs like waycrest, tol dagor, freehold, shrine, junk, no matter if tyra or forti.
Hod build for specific dungs where target count is low like kr, work.
Tos, siege and atal are tricky one, and should be switched between eb and hod, it depends on route, tactic and affixes.
next solar
oof forgot about rings
lean marten
SS in m+ gives cleave, EB in m+ gives AoE. thats why SS+EB is best in m+
elfin loom
HOD is an acronym for?
lean marten
becuase in m+ u want cleave and aoe lol
wary ice
heart of darkness
elfin loom
gotcha
wary ice
xangs got the idea but then theres dungeons like KR where eb is good on exactly one pull in the whole dungeon
elfin loom
getting raid azerite seems much easier atm, so im trying to see what i can do for EB azerite
wary ice
which is why the hod build drops eb for more stats
hidden maple
are there any GOD characters with the ideal build?
strange python
their name shall not be spoken
spark cloud
expedient 3 costs 20 corruption, correct? i wanna make sure its the right one before i grab em
strange python
but its @scarlet sequoia
woeful minnow
yes
spark cloud
bet thanks
woeful minnow
@hidden maple if you mean ST, https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rvVeMZZ6LiStWfgHqWrR7y
sullen pagoda
woeful minnow
strange python
@tulip panther https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pwUwGpv2RQTqUDAGD2oQDQ but i wouldnt put exp3 on the offhand and you need raden helm and mechagon ring set (haste from behind)
cobalt pelican
anyone haved dizzy rascals armorey?
next solar
that gushing would damage is sad 😦
oh picked up 1 instead of 2, sheesh that expedient lol
hidden maple
raz has some vers pants, is that okay? or would others probably do better for him
scarlet sequoia
ending it brb
harsh sphinx
hidden maple
i wasnt asking why he had them. im asking if it would probably be better to have haste/crit/mastery on them instead.
warm parcel
sullen pagoda
any crit caps in the chat
lone junco
@scarlet sequoia my condolences on the exang fame. At one point I was getting like 20dm a day and finally had to block dm from non friends.
hidden maple
i can tell this discussion has been beaten to death
lone junco
Sounds like time for a name change and private logs. Such is the penance for being a god among noobs.
sweet rampart
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jUko6tC4ZZgyTGFLbLPXEq
So i got from my pvp chest a warlords trophy (raise a pvp item to ilvl 460) I am running the gladiator's medallion, and my main wep is glad dagger, I tried the gear compare but i think i screwed it up, is there something special i need to do to decide if it is better i level up my trinket? Or my dagger?
lone junco
lol log out as sub. and then /mute this discord. that is also reasonable solution.
gl
hidden maple
oh wow i have the haste to use CT
dark token
71% haste im so hard right now
lime edge
I wish I wasn't working rn, fuck
hidden maple
base line?
dark token
yes
hidden maple
jesus fuck
dark token
0 drops of expedient across two characters
just bought 9
rp walked to mother
bought my corruptions
im nutting
crimson palm
rigid eagle
Man it’s really a party in here lol
dense blaze
Raz is an alright player
dark token
if my raid gives me 4 pieces of carapce gear and i buy 4 sockets i could be #1 
rigid eagle
Double dagger + chest and boots?
Wouldn’t the haste mastery boots from Maut be better lol
dark token
nah you hit a haste breakpoint eventually where u want a lil crit/mastery
dense blaze
485 boots are pretty good
dark token
and the 485 is nice
i have giga haste on all my other gear
so i want like 1-2 pieces of crit mastery gear
or vers mastery
rigid eagle
First world problem lul
tawny cypress
Anyone know around what haste % does the bleed build become better than poison build?
rigid eagle
@tawny cypress it’s a not rly a set value, you’ll really have to sim
For a while I was at 40% haste and simcraft still told me to go tb
tawny cypress
Really? That seems low, interesting
rigid eagle
And then a while later I dropped to 30% haste and then exsang started simming higher
tawny cypress
I saw an infexious video and it looks dope
sweet rampart
mine switched at about 44% haste, and my gear isn't close to you guys as far as lvl lol
tawny cypress
I’m 477 equipped iLvL with 480 available. I just need expedient 3s. I was mainly outlaw rogue so spent everything on strike through a
strange python
on use trinket from junkyard good?
rigid eagle
@tawny cypress what Azerite pieces do u have tho
@strange python that’s a pvp trinket to burst ppl, not pve
strange python
but its better than AD the trinket from ad i mean
rigid eagle
Choosing between those two trinkets in pve is kinda like
strange python
the on use one thgat gives physical dmg
rigid eagle
Wait gale is op man
dense blaze
Pick aids every time
strange python
yeahim usin it
rigid eagle
It’s a pain in the ass to play around
rigid eagle
Plumage and vita shard are what the gods run
lime edge
Still no vita here, rip
strange python
im getting my essences where i want them to
got memory r1 breath r1 flame r3 and iris r2 and vision r1
rigid eagle
Breath and memory r3 are sorta big
rigid eagle
But lucid dream thing gets replaced by formless void at endgame
strange python
I need a mentor
strange python
both bbreath and memory are time gated
3 uldum quests 150 rep ea per day. u need revered
what is memory again
strange python
bbut 100 follower exp x3 a day u need like high rank with them
paper kelp
total of 4500 xp i think
strange python
oh really
wind nymph
Hello, what do you think of that sim?
do you think is reliable?
I'm thinking of switching the 3 x Severe into 3 x Expedient , is that a wise choice?
ups wrong link, this sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tBu243aGQTenBH3RxXDoLW
tawny cypress
@rigid eagle which Azerite essences should I be shooting for with the bleed build?
lime edge
Yeah
jolly star
lime edge
I found getting conflicting and strife the hardest
lime edge
Since I dont have high rank in pvp, I got 3 of the things per week
5 weeks
Really annoying
lime edge
What
mellow pier
U dont need to do anything just tunnel 1 player and u will get 1600 and conflict in 3 weeks
Im not even joking
lime edge
That's not true
paper kelp
it is
paper kelp
just need the mage to poly and you to blind the heal
daring parrot
how much mastery is good for the exsanguinate build guys?
paper kelp
and you win
mellow pier
100%
paper kelp
not to mention the number of players running adaptation
daring parrot
@mellow pier ty good sir
paper kelp
houw much haste do you guys reach in burst without lust ?
lime edge
Pubs dont have the brain cells to do that
deft vault
Whats the opener with subterfuge and deeper strat but no ss?
mellow pier
My base haste is 75%
viral iris
For bleed build, with exsang coming off cool down do you refresh your bleeds if they are not above 15/25 and pop exsang or just hold exsang till it’s time to refresh?
outer moon
Hey all! Forgive me if this has been asked; I don't think there's a search function. Is there a particular breakpoint where running a haste build will choose SS+HoD > NP+DD? The game is finally (thanks to expedient) showing me some damage increase after 3 weeks of stagnation, and is telling me to switch from crit to haste, but still running the RNG VoP build. I've simmed so many ways, but it doesn't seem to change.
outer moon
"Sim yo self" "Don't use what the sim tells you" Okay then.
frank fjord
Is there a ST bis list like they have over in the outlaw channel?
paper kelp
outer moon
There's no real "BiS" anymore.
rigid eagle
Lol if all the outlaw players who can’t get good RTB rolls see you playing vop sin they’d form a lynch mob
shrewd night
There is a bis list in outlaw? wdym
daring parrot
if i want to get more expedient rank 3, what should i purify IS 2 or TA 3 (both 475 items)
rigid eagle
Like we have a solid spec without heavy RNG, don’t ruin it with VoP lol
last ingot
if I link my sim could you help me with choosing 480 azerite item to buy from residuum for m+? (I'm at raid setting now)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jobfiZ19m55jHsPdEsWZqj
rigid eagle
@upper halo nope, u rlly gotta sim man
upper halo
thats what i figured
shrewd night
Phedre, have you considered using droptimizer
sand kestrel
I need sim HELP. No premuim. I have enough for 4 expd3's. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/36iHuTpftMoeej5vJyyVKW
shrewd night
fleet anchor
If item has Haste + Expedient III == BiS 😛
rigid eagle
@upper halo there was a time where I lost 15% haste but sim told me to switch from TB to Exsang so it’s all rly weird
last ingot
I tried, but i dont think dungeon sim is rly precise
paper kelp
it feels so good to go from a rng corruption build to full exp corruption
daring parrot
if i want to get more expedient rank 3, what should i purify IS 2 or TA 3 (both 475 items)
shrewd night
Sim it.
rigid eagle
iirc TA proc rate doesn’t scale with haste right
rigid eagle
So basically lose-lose lol
rigid eagle
Yup
dense blaze
Felt giddy purifying my Carapace daggers this morning
dense blaze
Both of them are exp3 now yes
rigid eagle
Imagine getting double cara dagger
red plaza
F
rigid eagle
Tru...
grizzled mist
how much haste is needed to make Crimson Tempest a DPS increase?
paper kelp
at 68% haste its less than 1k for me
grizzled mist
i must be low on crit or something. raidbots wants me to constantly get it. even though im at 42.58% crit, 55.54% haste and 26.66% mast
¯_(ツ)_/¯
winter gale
There it says, on the guide, that bis setup will be expedient 3 x 7
Expedient 2x1
And Honed 3 x1
sturdy python
I meant 54% btw
winter gale
I currently have offhand with honed 3 but should I go only expedients until corruption resistance gets better?
paper kelp
sturdy python
@fleet anchor
I know this is just a sample but whats causing this? It doesnt show it every sim
old escarp
Deeper talent and bad crit rng?
scarlet sequoia
🙂
nimble light
If I'm not going to be raiding any more and just running M+ what's the best thing to do with my setup? Just change everything over to the EB build? (Assa setups just seem a bit confusing in M+ to me for some reason.)
sturdy python
Should still cast Rupture and exsang before CT
scarlet sequoia
its because if that mutilate gives you 5 cp
you ct
if it gives u 6
u rupture exsang
dense blaze
3x no crit mutilates to get to 6 CP
sturdy python
ah ok
sturdy python
That makes sense then, ty
scarlet sequoia
yes np
fleet anchor
Yeah what they said 😛
sturdy python
Figured on the 3 Muts, meant the CT before exsang
I had just been 5 CP rupturing and exsanging
tropic ocean
@nimble light 3ss 3eb severe+strikethrough and pump
strange python
whats eb?
strange python
is that what u want for st to ?
paper kelp
for aoe
fleet anchor
crystal blaze
does anyone have a wa to track empowered garrote ?
nimble light
@tropic ocean I'll probably have to farm a bit to get 3 of each of those but that's not too bad. Looks like I'll have to cleanse my corruptions though. 😦
fleet anchor
Honestly not massively sold on the EB build anymore personally but just my opinion.
nimble light
@fleet anchor It's not good any more?
void pecan
What was that meme build? CLF voip void dreams?
fleet anchor
I think the normal Expedient/SS/CT build does pretty strong AoE (especially with the new CT AoE priorities I posted last week)
While still actually doing boss damage
And not requiring a completely different gearset
main adder
Tyrannical week though
fleet anchor
IMO EB just has a lot of weaknesses in requiring a completely different stat than standard ST/raid gear
sour wraith
So with CT and bleed build in ST, if we get 5 cp we use CT then build to 6 cp for rupture and then exsang? or if we hit 5 do we just go to 6cp or stay at 5 and throw rupture for exsang immediately? I know if you get 6 off the bat its rupture into exsang
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor except it doesnt
its not even remotely close to compete in dps output in a dungeon overall
While still actually doing boss damage
difference in sim from st expedient raid build to 3ss 3 echo crit/crit dmg stack was for me around 5k st dps
but 20k+ loss on 6 target
serene osprey
how long of a 6 target sim?
tropic ocean
will probably be more like 25~30kish when actually using crit/vers gear cuz I was too lazy so I just simmed raidgear with exp vs crit/crit dmg
40s-1min
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sA436vL3xx7R42dWHsrVPz is it worth dropping the 1 ss? seems like the exsang damage would be more important in most fights
tropic ocean
not worth to drop 1 ss for a 59 dps upgrade
because ss will be superior as soon as at least 1 add joins the fight
strange python
ye
hey guys, when it comes to expedient, is there some point where we stop stacking haste?
mellow pier
No
tropic ocean
yes, as soon as it doesnt sim best anymore
strange python
alrighty
strange python
okie doke
mellow pier
It just depends on what ur gear is
gray crest
Should I wait to get 475 pants with haste to put on expedient3 or just use the expedient3 on the 475 Skitra pants i have?
tropic ocean
use on whatever u have the difference will be small
I have it on vers/mastery pants
strange python
thanks for tips guys!
stone fable
My tentacle, gushing build is simming around 88k at 39 corruption. Exang and FULL Expedient build (79 corruption) is only 90k. Are tentacles overvalued in sims or am I just super missing something about exang build XD
tropic ocean
probably your gear is too bad
mellow pier
Ur gear is just prob not that good
tropic ocean
exsang scales with haste
and correct azerite
not sure if u look at max iteration tho
stone fable
copy that, I'll do some more digging.
tropic ocean
cuz 40 corruption and 2k dps difference is kinda questionable
hidden maple
so its recommended by infexious (dont know how recommended he is so im here) that you learn the build with blood major, but CLF major DOES sim a bit higher for me
about 700 dps.
tropic ocean
most ppl use blood
hidden maple
so is CLF much harder or different? i used it in EP idk why its not recommended now
tropic ocean
due to ease of use and good linings
tropic ocean
no its not but u need to think about it
to sync it with vendetta depending on ur fight time
while blood is just used with every vendetta
also @strange python
not sure why u sim to gem crit and stuff
😄
plain thistle
thats a big boy 🙂
upper spear
1st time ive seen formless void in a sim
plain thistle
scrap that, its just crit vs haste sim xD
tropic ocean
its superior to lucid after big haste lvls
cuz u keep overcapping with lucid
and well, free haste
upper spear
is Crimson Tempest affected by Exsang?
ive been trying to get to a point where i can run Exsang but im losing too much on my sims to justify it yet, like 3k
frozen karma
You need shrouded traits for exsang
strange python
anyone on draenor server and there guild recruiting?
idle nova
hidden maple
so im running 6 exp 3 and 1 honed mind. how do i sim to specifically cleanse that honed mind and add more expedient?
first time really simming corruptions seriously
tidal gorge
I'm happily simming around 100k with TB build and staying below 40 corruption today. This works for me since we're still in prog 🙂
tropic ocean
You need shrouded traits for exsang
@frozen karma you don't
frozen karma
tropic ocean
🤷
serene osprey
you don't "need" SS, on use trinket, 7 expedients etc, sure does help though
plain thistle
yeah, for a lot of people sims tells you to ditch 1-2 SS to get 1-2 DD 🙂
balmy condor
my droptimizer tells me to drop 1SS for 1DD
plain thistle
last time i simmed my "best" build was exsg with only 1 SS with 2 DD 😂
plain thistle
yeah, my gear is a lot different now too
balmy condor
I haven't had a single exped3 drop naturally
so I'm assuming now that I bought 5, its going to be the only thing that drops
main forge
I got lucky and had it drop on a pair of 460 bracers.... one of my first items running heroic, and had no idea it was that good
tropic ocean
@serene osprey not sure how you mix up things there
you dont need ss traits to make exsang strong
fleet anchor
@tropic ocean I mean, not trying to be difficult but there is 0% chance that an EB+Crit build is only 5k ST DPS below HoD/Expedient 😛
hidden maple
will i see if formless void is worth taking in a sim? or is it more of a feely thing?
fleet anchor
Even without dropping traits for EB a Crit setup is already "optimally" 5-7k below a Haste setup and EB is completely dead on ST.. triple HoD is worth 10-12% DPS on ST
dark token
we dh now
fleet anchor
lol
I'm curious what I can get up to in combat now, I'm around 73% passive unbuffed atm
scarlet sequoia
get to 300+% regularly
dark token
this was no lust tho just training dummy no food or whatever
void pecan
y'all got any carapace carries.. want those daggers 
gaunt aspen
do i put exp3 on heroic xanesh belt? since its bis
manic harness
My guild is finally on Cara...can't fucking wait
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/hmI1aoh.png heroic xanesh belt is bis? 🤮
mythic is pretty decent
easy boss to kill too
if you can kill maut you can kill xanesh
tidal gorge
Imagine getting anything but haste/vers from your M+ box every week 😐
echo night
Whats the haste% when lucid starts falling off?
dark token
ranged do the orbs 
gaunt aspen
i bought 3 exps today and i dont wanna waste them so maybe ill just save them for upgrades
dark token
i dunno, put them on bis bis pieces first like the mechagon rings
i put it on stuff thats either BIS absolutely or it will take me more than 5 weeks to replace
like heroic carapce offhand
gaunt aspen
if i got a carapace dagger, i'd for sure put it on that
dark token
i dont even have the mythic mainhand so the likelyhood of 2 daggers in 5 weeks it would be very unlikely
astral tiger
Does racing pulse sim accurately? I was told there was something wonky about it
dark token
is that 30% uptime on 1 fight or averaged
sim is averaged 10000 attempts+
i doubt anyone has done real statistical analysis on logs that isnt a theorycrafter updating simc engine
whole snow
is it better to use expedient on mechagon haste ring set or other rings with high haste?
fleet anchor
You just want to use it on items you plan on keeping in your set
Mech rings are pretty likely targets, or 475 items with good stats
whole snow
nice ty
mellow berry
heyo guys, 3ss m+ build, which essences do I go for?
void pecan
bote major then other stuff
next solar
im so torn between buying expedients vs buying 2 t2 strikethroughs for outlaw T.T
dark token
what i did was buy a td3 for outlaw and all expedients for sin, td3 is good enough for m+
to tide me over for 10 weeks
now this rotation im buying strikethroughs/severes
next solar
i have double lash 3x III Severe 1x TIII strikethrough and 1x TII strikethrough
fleet anchor
I was able to afford my Severes for my Outlaw set but not Strikethroughs yet
Getting them next time around
next solar
this is what we're looking at
junior ridge
do you hold exsan for galecallers? or use on cd
next solar
err sorry wrong sub channel
gray flower
do i hold exsanginuate for vendetta, or hold vendetta for exsanguinate?
like should i use exsanginuate when i have 30 seconds left on Vendetta CD?
fleet anchor
Don't delay Exsanguinate, only delay Vendetta if you won't lose one
void pecan
45x3 = ?
gray flower
2:15
void pecan
vendetta is 2:00 so
dark token
is it worth exanging my tempest and/or pandemicing before exang
gray flower
yeah so youre delaying vendetta if you wont lose one
dark token
i wonder if the opener changes with tempest
fleet anchor
@junior ridge Try to sync with Exsanguinate in general. But you can use it without Exsanguinate if it's >20s cooldown and there is more than minute left in the fight.
barren anchor
How would you guys rate the exsanguinate build for m+?
fleet anchor
It's pretty decent if your tank lets you restealth 😛
barren anchor
Ye that's always the big question if they let you haha
fleet anchor
A lot of tanks have a fantastic way of making their healers and Assassination players angry by pulling 0.1s before they get out of combat lol
dark token
yeah protip dont ever play with a druid tank, blood dk, or shadow priest if you wanna play sin
or motherload
snow forge
what corruptions you go for keys?
lean marten
imagine not having smeld 
ocean ore
Someone know if distract break/stop/cancel Thing from Beyond?
orchid elk
now that every corruption has been tested, is there a better build with corruption or it comes down to personal preference
dark token
what i want to know is why vanish works
but only like
50% of the time
vanish removes the corruption slow 100% of the time but thing from beyond 50% of the time
loud silo
what az traits do yall suggest?
ocean ore
vanish break thing if u remaing stealth a few seconds, if not, do not "stop combat" with it
void pecan
The sim sequence says to use CT after exang @dark token
with CLF for me
normal open, then mut mut ct
loud brook
obsidian galleon
Someone got a nice tmog set for legendary daggs?
void pecan
Use broken bottles with mongoose
daring parrot
guys i have 2 more exp3 in my bags... but is it worthy to purify weapon with IS2 for those 2 EXP3? (i have 58% base haste atm)
grizzled jay
sim it
strange python
yes
main adder
I like the southern barrens quest reward butcher knives myself 🙂
surreal palm
So bought a bunch of expedient, have a bunch of gear in bags. Should I just like exclusively go for what has the most haste on it, or should I try to prioritize a little less haste for a specific other 2ndary? I'm way over iterations to be able to sim all of it so if anyone has any guidelines I would be incredibly appreciative ❤️
keen dome
Narrow it down to highest ilvl with haste and or socket
surreal palm
That was my first thought but then I have pieces that are like 475 w/ 139 haste vs 470 w/ 187 haste and that feels like a lot of haste to give up
strange python
i wouldnt put hard earned corruption on anything less than 475 unless it's mechagon rings
but thats just me i guess
tribal obsidian
Depends on how accessible it is and how much you have 5000 echos isnt that much
dark token
is it >475 with haste? if yes, expedient it
fleet anchor
Yeah pretty much lol
indigo elk
if you have a socket with 460 it'll probably outsim a 475 prob i think
fleet anchor
475+Haste = Expedient target, Mechagon ring set (Behind+Haste) = Expedient target
indigo elk
but once again if you're not raiding mythic just see how accessible it is for you to get 475
tropic ocean
just always need to sim
just because haste is on a piece it doesnt make it superior even with expedient stack
dark token
it doesnt matter if you have a socket 460
unless you have mechagon ring
you will eventually socket your 475
and it will be more bis than socket 460
hence, expedient goes on eventual bis not current bis
surreal palm
Thanks for the help guys. All the pieces im looking at are 475 or 470 but we're exending now so the odds of me getting more useful 475s are low :p and I've got a few wrathion sockets I can throw on
dark token
unless you were one of those assholes with 50k the first week then just expedient w/e
stark echo
so are top rogues just getting lucky getting sockets on all their gear? or are they farming shitloads of momentos?
astral tiger
Probs both
soft shale
we had like months to get mementos
rose sapphire
@stark echo did 30 runs since yesterday, my head is dead now
woeful minnow
you should be getting 1 socket/week from visions
unborn otter
So. Probably asked before, but does Exsang effect Gushing Wounds' bleed?
strange python
iirc it does not
fleet anchor
No
unborn otter
Kk. Mentioned actually using exsang to an old rogue friend, they mentioned it and left me wondering
Confirmed, does not
dark token
@stark echo you can get 1 socket a week atm
its been how many weeks since patch came out?
dark token
if you are alliance
its 5.5 runs a week if you do ALL dailies. 5k momentos a run = 1 socket a week
scarlet sequoia
buy with echoes
strange python
how many mementos do u get per run if u get all crystals + chests?
void pecan
lol
dark token
so i had to save it all
regardless im not the one complaining im missing only 1 socket cause i just replaced that piece
gloomy slate
I would say you get about 5k per vision run if you get everything.
dark token
i mean
i guess im not a real gamer then
i do 10k a week
cause cba to play 80 hrs a week, , maybe if i get laid off id do that
quartz depot
you're supposed to pay people to farm for you
dark token
you right i could buy 50 10 key boosts from gallywix
and afk all day while i do my work
big brain right there
ill tell them to deplete so i still get echoes but dont have to move my character
and we just keep running the same 10
lmao
stable isle
Pay Gally or oblivion for a 2s boost and ask for raz, easy echoes
dark token
you can 1v2 2s with an afk as a non tank/healer class?
stable isle
Idk ask raz
steep obsidian
so this sims apl is tellin me to use clf and use it pre pull in stealth
strange python
blood of the enemy grind now...
got vision r3 in major iris r2 minor same with flame and breath r1 in minor to
dark token
blood sux just clf
steep obsidian
at least bote isnt gated you can just do it in a day or 2
dark token
almost as good on some bosses, better on others
especially since they took aoe rankings away
scarlet sequoia
dark token
its good if you wanna do m+ as sin
idk maybe blood sims better for @scarlet sequoia but clf is like 1.5% over blood for me
fathom swift
Clf is cool but prepull shenanigans are always super buggy for me personally
scarlet sequoia
compared to blood
young dew
well, can someone tell me
real solar
sims better, but plays worse
young dew
i use crismon after or before ensagui
real solar
blood feels way better
real solar
@young dew on opener, after
fathom swift
How it feels is kinda a bad argument when all you do either way is hit 1 button
astral tiger
So if I'm running CLF instead of BotE, should I wait for 4 minutes for my 3rd vendetta? Or do I just use it with an exsanguinate?
dark token
you wait unless you dont get another usage
sullen pagoda
yeah basically all rogues on logs play bote cuz of feelycraft
dark token
its about killtime
sullen pagoda
nice one
real solar
lmao 3 min cd, you wont ever have it line up w a vanish on any mythic fights unless you hold shit
dark token
i mean
scarlet sequoia
not 1 good performing rogue plays clf
fathom swift
I mean they kinda do 
scarlet sequoia
its a fact
dark token
there are some pretty nice CLF parses on some bosses
scarlet sequoia
idk what u want me to say
fathom swift
Same reason they all play plumage
astral tiger
So I should run bote regardless? I plan on doing so on ra-den because the fights only last 3 min anyways, but i wasn't sure for longer lasting fights
real solar
yes, play blood
fathom swift
So why does clf perform worse than it sims in your opinion
lean marten
id argue none of the best rogues should parse on xanesh. they're doing mechanics lul
dark token
100 other rogues still running TB like shitters
stable isle
Are you drunk buddy?
real solar
Lol
dark token
a lil actually
steep obsidian
how many soccer phases do guilds do nowadays anyway
topaz valley
let him play clf so he can rank green
young dew
@young dew on opener, after
@real solar so, garrote >rup >gar >mult till 5-6combo> rup >mult till 5-6 crismon then ensangui
dark token
ok 100 is an exaggeration
steep obsidian
only 3 right?
stable isle
2 or three sadbod
scarlet sequoia
xanesh might be the only boss where clf is realistically better because of kill times
astral tiger
@steep obsidian 2 to 3
steep obsidian
with 2 you could cover with tanks and healers mostly
scarlet sequoia
but youre just being dense as fuck thinking clf is better in general
dark token
yeah exactly, you play CLF where killtimes allow and decide based on your guild
eager barn
what's the thought on when CT is worth over PB
dark token
its probably better on wrath
scarlet sequoia
its probably not
sullen pagoda
yeah xanesh is just about under 4mins
astral tiger
Is it normal for haste to be my lowest stat weight?
spark olive
so is its best to 3rd exsan for vanish/trinket/vendetta?
real solar
@young dew check the guide in pins - gar -> rup -> gar -> vendetta -> mutilate -> rup -> exsang
dark token
i play bote on most bosses too but saying clf is trash is 
steep obsidian
depending on your essences and gear bunny its normal
but trust sims dont worrya bout stat weights
astral tiger
Oh yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what kinda stats I wanna be looking for
fathom swift
Ok but why is clf actually bad im curious about the reasoning
astral tiger
ie mastery or crit
dark token
if it has any cleave, i play bote. if its < 4 min i play bote. if its >4 min single target i play clf
fathom swift
Cause i have fine results playing it
astral tiger
but they're almost exactly the same, so
stable isle
5 mins ago
dark token
lol
fathom swift
Ya but why
sullen pagoda
I wouldnt call clf trash but blood is so much more versatile
dark token
you dont need to prepull it. does it still bug without a prepull?
fathom swift
Yeah it bugs if you prepull a lot for me
scarlet sequoia
it loses casts a lot even if u dont prepull
fathom swift
But i just stopped prepulling it
scarlet sequoia
i never prepulled
fathom swift
Ok, fair enough, ill go check its casts later
sullen pagoda
wait does clf benefit from bl if it was cast before bl
long time since i played it
dark token
sullen pagoda
EP meta
dark token
no idea guy just goes pew pew
steep obsidian
i havent played clf for ages either i was just doing some sims is all
broken oriole
What website shows the rankings
strange python
what rankings?
broken oriole
Someone posted this https://i.imgur.com/eU0eE3I.png
strange python
broken oriole
thanks
spark olive
Does it matter to hold vendetta and vanish for exsan bursts or just use everything on cd?
fleet anchor
Honestly I haven't really seen anything to indicate that CLF loses enough casts on average to change anything
Most logs I have looked at seem to indicate it's averaging out pretty close to the expected value
scarlet sequoia
you can look at sims and whatever as much as u want to
but the fact is that clf is MAYBE better on 1, max 2 bosses
and thats it
fleet anchor
I'm saying that I'm looking at logs
And looking at how many casts it is getting off
And it's almost always the correct value, and at worst it loses like 1-2
Which doesn't change much
Logs analysis has never really supported Blood as being particularly strong
But people run it anyway because it's close
scarlet sequoia
i mean i was one of the first to run clf
i did for months
but i have had better results every time playing blood
fleet anchor
I mean personal results week v week for something like CLF vs Blood is not going to be perceptible
Even for a Haste build that has less RNG
dark token
clf on maut = 👌
fleet anchor
All I know is that I've looked at the top logs for many fights and deconstructed the CLF vs. BotE value
scarlet sequoia
pointless arguing about this its like blood vs beam in outlaw
scarlet sequoia
ah rofl
dark token
fleet anchor
There are certainly gear and fight length configurations that Blood will win on, but they are far less frequent. Which is why I'd personally just recommend CLF generically.
lol hey I was the first Breather
Can't give Guy all the credit
fathom swift
Whats the rough difference precast vs cast clf after 2nd garrote kojiyama?
stark echo
blood for mythic+ though right?
sullen pagoda
speaking of which i was wondering @fleet anchor does clf have more rng dps
my brain stopped working how to phrase it
but i hope u know what i mean
fleet anchor
I would assume Blood has more variance because Blood's value is largely determined by your crit rate within the 4 global window
Which is quite variable
Same with MA
But I haven't particularly broken down that aspect specifically
sullen pagoda
yeah thats why i was wondering if clf is more rng since your crit % is lower within cds with clf
tropic ocean
Which is why I'd personally just recommend CLF generically.
but why
when the difference is small and blood is no brain
sullen pagoda
i felt like our dps was pretty yoyo back in EP prog when CLF was meta
but different builds different times
dark token
why do people say blood has no brain like thats a plus
fleet anchor
How is CLF hard to use? Pressing 2 buttons per pull?
dark token
they are both literally 1 button
fleet anchor
lol
dark token
lmfao
tropic ocean
no
but you want to sync clf with vendetta
unless that has changed
so you need to watch your fight-timer as well to pair it
dark token
you want to sync blood with vendetta unless you run EB?
fathom swift
Knowing when to hold is not like that much brain required lets be honest
fathom swift
You almost always press on cd
tropic ocean
its not, but its more brain required than blood
steep obsidian
out of all the majors i find breath of the dying most fun to play
tropic ocean
🤷
fathom swift
Most fights this tier are 3.5 min or less
fleet anchor
I mean I can understand people like the habit of it
dark token
ah yes
steep obsidian
i kinda want to play it in some dungeons
dark token
my vendetta is in 5 sec
fleet anchor
But I can't get behind arguing that CLF is "hard" to use lol
tropic ocean
i mean meme all you want
but thats not the case
its more the case will I hold 1 or the other depending on fight time
but w/e
delicate bone
i mean using most essences is pretty brain dead overall, games not hard
fleet anchor
You can literally get a WA that will tell you when to press it if you want
But it's not exactly rocket science
dark token
download the TTK weakaura its pretty nice
tropic ocean
while blood is just press with vendetta
delicate bone
so is clf
steep obsidian
if you want to know the variance of a build just look at the html report of the sim and it literally tells you whoever was asking that
dark token
a lot of classes have cooldown usage optimizations and nuances you dont realize unless you really pay attention to killtimes and try to guess based on past kills w/ your guild
fleet anchor
CLF on pull, CLF on 3rd Vendetta. Is like.. not exactly big brain. If people don't know if the fight is going to be 4 minutes or 5 minutes, they probably have bigger rotational problems than pressing cooldowns. 😛
steep obsidian
i have a ttk on my plater i should probably remove it because i never look at it most of the time
dark token
thats why i like about exang build its mor eabout optimizing vanish and exang usage
leads to higher skill gameplay than press TB every 20 sec hurrdurr
delicate bone
exactly, clf is still used with vendetta
idle nova
vast forum
it's simple
dark token
exang means you run shrouded, which means vanish actually matters
vast forum
but people still seem to struggle with it 
fleet anchor
People do often overthink stuff
dark token
its worth a 30s delay on cooldowns if you can triple garrote and wont get another usage etc
delicate bone
i mean no spec is really "hard" if you play it an learn lol
sullen pagoda
People want to min max stuff and overthink it ye
fleet anchor
I hear a lot of less experienced players trying to do all kinds of funky things with their Exsang
Or Vendetta or whatever
And just screw themselves over
sullen pagoda
its sad that barely any of it actually has meaningful impact on dps
fleet anchor
By trying too hard
fathom swift
Exsang with ct is more interesting than a lot of specs tbh
sullen pagoda
can agree on that ye
fleet anchor
Like a lot of people would just be better off starting with "keep your bleeds up, mash shit on cooldown" and then work on the other stuff later. Than try to get all 200 IQ with cooldown alignment as Step 1.
fathom swift
Its like spinning a bunch of plates then every 45s they all spin twice as fast
tropic ocean
if dot = active > press ct if dot = not active press envenom
grave trail
tbf im still not used to Exsang +ct tb is just so brainless in comparison
fleet anchor
I do like CT adding another button
sullen pagoda
fuck DD build, if SS didnt become meta id just drop rogue for rest of expansion and focus on big dam warrior
rose ember
Why does the guide say 1x r3 Honed mind?
dark token
dd build is aids agree
fleet anchor
And at high Haste levels there are a lot more buttons to press than before
fleet anchor
But all WoW specs are simple
tropic ocean
oh and it plays better when u have dps downtime
fathom swift
Oh yeah racing pulse rank 3 was simming higher for me than honed mind 3 as last corruption piece with max cloak, prob wont be the same for everyone
fleet anchor
Just sim your last piece
fathom swift
Ya
grave trail
but you still get out damaged by decent IS proccer ST or tenddies which feels bad
fleet anchor
It will be Honed/Racing/Void Ritual
fathom swift
Just people seemed like they were going "ah yes honed mind is bis"
dark token
i like to sim 7x expedient 3s then the last 2 pieces i sim rank 2/3ss of honed mined, expedient, and racing pulse
fleet anchor
Depending on what stats you have