vop minor is weird
#assassination
hearty crane
I got those just actually didnt sim with them on
but
Vop that bad?
rather go Strife r2?
lean marten
not sure just have to sim it
turbid osprey
does feint reduce thing from beyond dmg?
crimson palm
What does the tooltip of Feint say @turbid osprey
turbid osprey
sorry, if you talent elusiveness*
lean marten
also try Quick / Deadly on ur weps not sure why u have vers wep
turbid osprey
forgot to clarify that my b
lean marten
look into a Honed mind 3
grizzled mist
does Crit value drop off with higher haste?
viral valve
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pja1gg9uJezG7vHRi6Z9xv @hearty crane Put on mechagon rings and changed essences
elfin saffron
do i need 1 HM or is full haste better
tropic ocean
sturdy mesa
So we all prayin that Expedient 3 is gonna be in the vendor tomorrow? 
strange python
Of course
turbid osprey
yarp
lean marten
lone junco
250% IT inc
sturdy mesa
dont give blizz ideas 
naive walrus
Hi guys, what fighting style do you use for Nzot Mythic fight?
dire spoke
Hi guys, what fighting style do you use for Nzot Mythic fight?
drunken master
crimson palm
Hi guys, what fighting style do you use for Nzot Mythic fight?
@naive walrus kung fu
normal olive
Hi guys, what fighting style do you use for Nzot Mythic fight?
@naive walrus Hidden Leaf style
void pecan
I prefer krav maga
wet ruin
pretty sure he meant for sims
crimson palm
After reading raz's guide i switched to judo
naive walrus
#funny
muted ore
Lmfao
grizzled jay
Hi guys, what fighting style do you use for Nzot Mythic fight?
Personally, I am a favor of inting on Psychus so I don't have to worry about fucking up Evoke
sweet rampart
expedient 3 tomorrow?
grizzled jay
No confirmation if it is a set rotation or if it randomizes every time it goes through a 'rotation'.
If it repeats, Ex3 is tomorrow. Otherwise, might be something else.
vast forum
datamining suggests that it's a set rotation
viscid lichen
is there an agreed upon corruption build for mythic progress?
young portal
pins
viscid lichen
so I just stack haste as mongo?
young portal
yeye, much more recommended for prog due to reliability. As suppose to stacking tendies and shit
pine badger
Is overclocking bit band bis for exped build?
grizzled jay
yes
pine badger
Does the logic loop of recursion allow for max uptime ?
grizzled jay
It's bis for every build because it gives you a lot of raw stats pretty sure
inner pier
Is there any difference between Plumage and Medallion?
pine badger
or is the attack from behind better?
grizzled jay
Divison is the only one that allows 100% uptime
sweet rampart
can't get 15k echoes this week for 7 exp 3s 😦
tropic ocean
spam arena mroe
sweet rampart
how much do you get per?
crimson palm
Enough
sweet rampart
only if you win though right? lol
sweet rampart
sooo 50 per...20 games = 1k echoes...20 x 15....god....
tropic ocean
the gain solely depens on ur cr
sweet rampart
cr?>
sturdy python
Current rating
honest basin
And on the bracket too
honest basin
Between 2.4 and 2.6 I've found I only earn 80-110 on average in 2s, while you get 100+ every two wins at barely 2k1 in 3s. I haven't queued above 2.4 in 3s for a month so I don't know how much you gain there, echoes weren't introduced when I was playing there
3s just gives more for the same rating, basically, but unless you really outclass what you face games might last
which means less echoes per hour
sweet rampart
i still ahve 3 emiisarries to do, and i have 6 visions. But if you do masks you do NOT get extra echoes right? it caps at just a full run?
honest basin
yeah it's not
tropic ocean
so when u spend 6,7min to win 110 on 2.6
in the same time u get 2x-3x 50-70
in lower cr
- faster queue time as well
honest basin
as a reference me and a friend were able to farm about 1500-2000 per hour when we dropped in 2s
yeah
it's much much faster
sweet rampart
i am at 1358 for 2s 😄 i am not very good
humble saddle
how many runs did it take you guys to get the mechagon rings? im at 50 combined runs and no luck
plain thistle
jesus, not sure, but i got it pretty fast into the patch, and never swapped out
took me 10 tries to get carapace mythic dagger tho 
jolly spoke
Whats the rough stats to hit for crit/mast/haste? im sitting on 29% crit, 34% haste and 42% mast at 471 item level.
civic hatch
Playing ss/exang I find sometimes I have 1-2sec on an empowered rupture left and 5-6 combo points, do I just overcap energy a bit and wait till it drops to refresh rupture or envenom and build up cp again for rupture while it’s down for a couple seconds?
balmy condor
I think that question has a lot of variables and the optimal way to handle it is going to change depending on downtime
I would agree that just using a finisher is probably more consistent
strange python
Hello, so I seen Infexious's video about Exsanguinate and Crimson Tempest build for bleeds with Haste Mastery pieces, and the expedient corruption, what if I'm not a high end raider and don't have the Vita-Charged Titanshard and the other good trinkets? I'm looking to get the best build I can for my gear and I'm a little bit lost as the build I tried of Infexious's makes me burst really hard but the downtime is really slow haste and I don't have any of the corruptions that I want to save my currency for gushings
balmy condor
Sim yourself
proven moth
When the guide says Crit = Mastery it means like % or the same numeric ammount?
balmy condor
The wrathion trinket is probably fine
crimson palm
you can use the finisher and apply rup with the amount of cp that u get after the first mut
dead gcds are worse
vital haven
eww wrathiion trinket
strange python
I am getting dead gcd's with that build
I don't think I have the haste to make it work
crimson palm
i wasnt talking to u
balmy condor
Guide means that crit/mastery are going to be roughly the same weighting
strange python
my bad
balmy condor
Wrathion trinket is honestly fine if you don’t have vita
It’s not a ton of haste but it’s got good uptime
strange python
I don't have the wration trinket either
proven moth
Oh shit, stat weight... this xpac sucks with simming
balmy condor
No, not actual stat weight
It’s useless to think about those
Just get haste everywhere
And then go for either crit or mastery on the off stats
They’re roughly the same
strange python
what is the cancelaura for haste buff of bote?
430 Azshara's Font, Gladiator's Badge, and Razor Coral, then 460 Loaded Dice, and Electromental in a Jar, and 440 Dead-Eye Spyglass
balmy condor
Yeah, so sim yourself
vital haven
just get haste everywhere should be the tldr of the guide tbh
proven moth
so high ilvl with haste and mast/crit?
balmy condor
5 min is the usual
But if your kill times are super quick, feel free to knock it down
dire spoke
you cant just copy build-x and expect it to work, thats why talentXtrait simulations are a thing
pine badger
thats cause its the theoretical best dps no?
tropic ocean
its practical best dps too
pine badger
yeah
woeful minnow
it's not actually best theoretical dps, your tendies could go off and parse better than you ever would with the exsang build
strange python
r6 stars probably does good for single target bosses
crimson palm
yes dont listen to these noobs who run haste
woeful minnow
but it's completely consistent because you don't rely on rng procs and it's always good instead of sometimes grey parse sometimes 100%
vital haven
im thinking going heavey haste exsang build with one IS is prob the best theoretical dps
crimson palm
or just play dh and you can flex twice a month
dire spoke
if youre still progressing or gearing with half assed mini expedients youll likely be doing better with toxicblade poisonbomb, try not to force meta on long fights with bad gear
strange python
It says to run Azshara's Font and Coral but I don't think I can run the bleed build with that
dire spoke
font was good with masterassassin, try to compare the talents first
tropic ocean
if your still progressing or gearing with half assed mini expedients youll likely be doing better with toxicblade poisonbomb, try not to force meta on long fights with bad gear
@dire spoke pretty sure you'll do better with tb on any cleave fight
strange python
I'm just going to run old build, I forget how the damn stats work with master assassin and coral + font but I'm sure I'll figure it out
dire spoke
you can get expedients next ID probably
tropic ocean
I'm just going to run old build, I forget how the damn stats work with master assassin and coral + font but I'm sure I'll figure it out
@strange python u just sim whats best for u and use it
strange python
isn't it expensive to buy corruptions?
dire spoke
what else are you gonna spend echoes for 
woeful minnow
severe/strikethrough for m+, outlaw set, pvp set
strange python
Gushing's when I get the gear I need for pvp
dire spoke
to be clear, I was implying a raid envi with my answers
drifting light
Gushing's when I get the gear I need for pvp
@strange python well assuming blizz doesnt shuffle corruption rotation, gushers will only be available in roughly a month from now as they were up until friday
So u will have a fuck ton of time to farm echoes, and if exp 3 is up tomorrow and u dont have the gear nor the echoes to go big on haste, this conversation is kinda pointless
dire spoke
lucid, breath and the rest is up to you
tropic ocean
bote/clf - lucid - iris - breath
if you have very high amount of haste replace lucid with formless void
strange python
only 22% haste
tropic ocean
then probably cns instead of iris
strange python
conflict and strife?
strange python
I was just asking what cns stands for
I can't tell if the sim is right about putting me 7 corruption over the resistance
dire spoke
Have you used the slider to set a max number and checked purify box?
strange python
I'm only wondering to see if I need to cleanse one. I set my maximum corruption resistance to 53 since my cloak is at that, and I don't know about the purify box. Maybe I should have checked that?
dire spoke
Have you used the slider to set a max number and checked purify box?
set it to 59 and check purify
🚀 📈
astral onyx
Something I'm struggling to understand is how a 470 crit/haste piece could be worse than a 475 vers/mastery piece with extreme amounts of expedient. If the piece doesnt have haste aren't you leaving stats on the table in a major way? Trying to understand my sim telling me its actually better to wear the 475
wide delta
do I get 2 quartermaster's note everytime I turn in conquest cap?
dusky moon
is there a way to add 'expedient III' corruption ID to an item for simming?
strange python
in top gear
fallen bone
Gear comparison also works
strange python
if you just wanna edit a string the bonus id for exp3 should be 6476
dusky moon
thanks
wind totem
I just got back into the game. Why does razor coral sim so high for aoe/dungeon?
dusky moon
it is crit, crit is best for AoE and EB spam
dusky moon
i do, since I don't have anything better
one haste, one crit, but i think you can get two different with the same stat
rigid eagle
lol the dungeon slice thingy is telling me that double mechagon ring is better than crit versa + crit mastery rings
dunno if i should trust a beta function tbh
dusky moon
don't use dungeon slice
rigid eagle
yeah lol
dusky moon
use patchwerk 4 bosses 90 sec and no buffs
rigid eagle
okie
storm lava
hi everyone
its normal that raidbot dont remplace the crit gems for a haste gems
?
royal lantern
it starts too replace crit with haste when you get a higher amount of expedient
grizzled jay
Run Stat Weights, that will tell you why it chooses what it chooses.
normal olive
I think you don't sim haste gems, atleast it looks like it
royal lantern
dont run stat weights
like
dont
topgear with crit and haste, and use "replace exsisting gems/enchants" then you will see the result
it starts too replace crit with haste gems when you got some expedient
storm lava
oke ty ill
red plaza
oke ty ill
@storm lava https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/38hNVFSKQUoJBHUtoJTwRZ
Bleed build really needs triple SS to make it work. Also Crimson Tempest at super high haste levels.
ebon patio
Hey everyone. I need some help to improve my ST dps.. I came back to the game a month ago so not every essence I have is r3. This is what I think is my best option atm. Any help and pointers would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aMhHMWRNRYqgPW83ND1ZVb
grizzled jay
CLF or BotE are better Majors than BotD
balmy condor
doesn't have those
red plaza
Yeah, work on BoTE rank 3 is your first priority, CLF not so much really
balmy condor
clf rank 1, bote rank 2
red plaza
Then check the pins for the best Expedient/Haste gear setup and work on getting those.
If not, put on some high level tendies or infinite stars pieces and pray to the RNG gods XD
strange python
should i pick gutripper or heed my call?
lime edge
sim
twin elbow
Is the Ex build good for M+ ? Or is Crit still the way to go for M+
Current link to my armory https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/kiljaeden/cordez
Raid bots is simming at 77k dps
balmy condor
crit with exsang
balmy condor
crit/mast with subt 3x SS 3x EB and CT
lime edge
which one for pvp
def not crit one
and overwhelming power sounds like it would have 0 stacks at all times, but what do i know
shut garnet
yeah i mean imagine blinding x while focusing y and then they just get thundered
not ideal
forest saffron
How much mastery vs crit for the esang build
and for everyone whos about to say sim it, lol I wouldve done so intead of asked if I wanted to do taht
scarlet sequoia
sharp bear
plain thistle
balmy condor
If only there were perhaps a program of some sort... that would be able to give more information on this type of question.... how cool would that be
royal lantern
would be cool
rigid eagle
real talk tho how did ppl even make simcraft work lol
balmy condor
It’s just a lot of math
royal lantern
space magic
balmy condor
Logic and math
rigid eagle
i read a lot of meth at first...
fast nacelle
Does double dose still work if I use wound poison instead of deadly poison?
royal lantern
cus in pvp you dont really use mutilate all the time like in pve
less uptime on your target etc...
tender token
is there a hard cap on secondary stats?
fast nacelle
I'm not supposed to be using mutilate? lol okay I suck. I need to revisit what I'm doing in pvp then 😐
tender token
thanks
balmy condor
We have a pvp channel
fast nacelle
ty, I'll go over there
crimson palm
and for everyone whos about to say sim it, lol I wouldve done so intead of asked if I wanted to do taht
@forest saffron read raz guide and then pm him about questions
topaz valley
Engineering goggles haste proc sims nearly as much as gibbering, do you think lining exangs on haste procs could be the best?
balmy condor
not worth
twin elbow
@balmy condor you said to do Crit with Exsanguinate but the guide specifically to stack expedients, at what haste % should you start switching to severe?
gloomy lake
hey guys, can anyone help me sim my gear? i think im doing it right but im not entirely sure....
twin elbow
Yea I’m still talking about M+
balmy condor
exped in m+ is only really for mega tyrannical keys with small pulls imo
crit/severe is the go to for 90% of keys
like a tyran bolster kings rest? expeds probably okay
twin elbow
Okay, I’m sitting at 50% Crit right now, going with a DD type build with an SS and HoD, should I switch traits to EB? When I tried that earlier but my DPS was lower
balmy condor
DD in m+ is mega troll
3x SS is a must for m+ because of the restealths and the free cleave every pull
3x EB is the strongest aoe trait we have
hod is good overall as well
twin elbow
So you are really trying to get as many SS and EB as you can in M+
delicate bone
Or use outlaw for m+ 😉
balmy condor
if I wanted to roll dice, I would go to vegas with a credit card
delicate bone
I use assassination for raiding, I just don’t like the playstyle for m+, it’s super zzzzzzzz, like if your tank is chainpulling and you can’t restealth you actually do no dmg
balmy condor
then don't play with a tank that just pepega chain pulls?
sullen fossil
If a tank is good he can play around restealth.. If he sucks just quit the key lul
balmy condor
^^^
delicate bone
I mean having to play around restealth is shitty Imo
I’m not saying sin isn’t viable to m+ or anything, just giving the dude another option for a way to do well in m+ 🙂
balmy condor
and imo, playing outlaw is worse than stubbing your toe
that's why we're in the sin channel
delicate bone
Lmao, and you’re wrong, but that’s ok 🙂
balmy condor
but that's my opinion?
plain thistle
and not only yours, outlaw is poopoo
sullen fossil
Outlaw is meme
delicate bone
Outlaw>sin m+ sin>outlaw raid 🙂 ezpz
balmy condor
sin and outlaw are viable in their own rights
delicate bone
No need to be so defensive though, I was legit just giving the dude an option 🙂
delicate bone
You*
balmy condor
so we don't play outlaw
sullen fossil
Us
delicate bone
Lmao, why not play both?
balmy condor
cause we don't like outlaw?
what part of this is confusing
outlaw no fun
me like fun
me no play outlaw
delicate bone
Yes mb, smash FoK, you right
west totem
Click Blade Flurry for damage
balmy condor
see, you don't like playing sin
now take that logic
and apply it to us, not playing outlaw
delicate bone
Literally why so close minded to change? Lmfao, like I love sin, but I also love outlaw, it’s not wrong to enjoy both classes
Wait, I literally said I like sin for raid lmao
delicate bone
I would never come to this channel if I didn’t like sin, just told the dude to try outlaw if he didn’t like the sin m+ build/play style
And I’m talking about whatever I want to talk about tbh 🙂
delicate bone
I responded to him telling@him to use outlaw for m+ and you jumped in. I wasn’t talking to you, so you roped yourself in 🙂
sullen fossil
If someone is talking about m+ in a sin channel what makes you think They wanna Hear: oh just play outlaw
delicate bone
I just don’t see why you have to be defensive and argue about it, I was literally telling him if he was having issues with the guild or playstyle, he can spec outlaw and see how he like it. Then make an educated decision on their preference at that point
Build*
balmy condor
because 
play outlul
isn't very helpful when someone is trying to learn about sin in m+
delicate bone
It wasn’t meant to be helpful, per say, it was meant to show that he had options
delicate bone
I think you had a bad day though, I hope the rest of your day goes better ❤️
shrewd night
forest saffron
Is raz guide the one in the pins?
balmy condor
yes
forest saffron
It sets crit and mastery as equal but 2other guides have told me different
Ill dm him
sullen fossil
Just stack crit and you'll be fine
forest saffron
Oh ok
So if all my peices r crit is ok then
thats eprfect
perfect cause then I dont gotta replace anything
balmy condor
then yeah
balmy condor
as long as its crit or mastery on the second
doesn't matter
he's talking about raids
asked about it earlier
forest saffron
thanks tons 🙂
obtuse island
Any tips for Raden mythic? Like should I use vendeta blood etc on the first orb? Or hold it for when I go back on the boss / adds?
rancid bobcat
its pretty much single target
you shouldnt need to put cooldowns into the orbs
or adds
obtuse island
Cheers, I’ll just put it all into Raden 👌🏻 I’ll hold onto them a little longer in the beginning
For after 1st orb dies
void pecan
An outlawl coming to sin saying play dumb spec then wonders why they (we) get defensive. 
Are we getting exp 3 tomorrow though. Did they mine right?!
rancid bobcat
sleek pecan
Ash you could wait for the adds and bleed them up before using blood
rancid bobcat
wouldnt suggest that for prog
unless you have some weird ass comp that cant aoe the adds down
adds come out pretty late so you're holding cds in essentially a dps check fight
desert torrent
is it worth learning assassination for raids or are the other specs sufficient?
kind of a general rogue question but i thought i should ask here
cobalt pelican
depends on what raiding you're t alking about
generally over the course of wows history it'd be pretty good to learn assassination at least a little bit though
desert torrent
just like usual single target stuff, i havent started raiding a lot yet
glacial crown
How much crit can we stop at so we can start adding more haste for this build?
arctic walrus
there's no specific breakpoints for any stat
glacial crown
@arctic walrus thank you
rancid bobcat
i mean if you're already invested into outlaw, or for some ungodly reason subtlety, you don't neeeeeed to switch
but if you're starting a rogue from 0 then assassination is probably the best route
rain sierra
Azeritepowerweight import that is newer?
wise harbor
is Expedient + Exsanguinate build good for M+?
arctic walrus
Exsang sure expedient no
vast forum
expedient is still pretty decent in low trash dungeons
@rain sierra don't use weights, use sims
spark olive
are there any good guides for the exsan build? going to swap to it next time expedient comes up
vast forum
none written atm, but you can go through logs to see how ppl play and ask questions here
woeful minnow
the most recent pin is the expedient/exsang guide
late helm
infexious recently posted a vid of mythic maut where he goes over what he does
vast forum
imagine recommending poison bomb with high expedient 😛
woeful minnow
CT doesn't always sim better, it requires pretty much the best gear
but yes I guess that's missing from the guide, I wouldn't ignore it though, it's still very good to learn how to play the build
vast forum
yea it's decent
spark olive
well shit, just pulled it up, you got anything else worthy to watch or learn from?
i know very little about the build so any bad habits from the beginning are going to stick for a bit lol
balmy condor
just follow the pinned guide
fallow otter
@gusty kestrel but they are so cruspy
glacial steppe
idle nova
it's pretty straightforward. if you're looking for fight specific things like whether to vanish / cd right away on a boss like raden or when to use your first vanish on a fight like wrathion where you run vision minor, you can look at the cast timeline on some of the top logs @spark olive
spark olive
@idle nova yeah i'
ill have to look at some of the logs but geting a basis for now
im tired of they "hey did you great" to wtf proc were those only 1 tendy!? theres like 2m dmg lol
tough cypress
Any idea if Tiny Electromental in a Jar procs off bleeds?
minor garden
grizzled jay
Does Outlaw bring more Utility? Their stun is part of their DPS rotation.
So they stun DR mobs, seems like bad utility to me lol
smoky lintel
They have gouge as well for interrupts though.
Plus the stun comes up way more often than ks
smoky lintel
Not everything that needs interrupts is a spell
Plus that's assuming you always get a stealth opener
grizzled jay
How can you not get a stealth opener
grizzled jay
Higher keys do smaller pulls 
smoky lintel
But as far as I'm aware assa is fine for a good while into key levels
You can wait for someone else to reply I guess 
arctic walrus
vanish cheap, gouge, non dr stun on non main targets but still getting damage's worth
iron wire only gets value on opener, you're not going to vanish garrote something soley for the intent of silencing the target mid pull
grizzled jay
It wouldn't solely for the silence, no. It comes with raw damage on top of it you'd normally like anyways.
tropic ocean
higher keys usually do larger pulls
also free dps stun with 10% dmg buff is huge
iron wire only gets value on opener, you're not going to vanish garrote something soley for the intent of silencing the target mid pull
@arctic walrus sometimes you actually do
arctic walrus
yeah sure sometimes
tropic ocean
I pretty much do it in kr on the packs after 2nd boss
Or in begin of shrine
Silence pretty neat there
sturdy python
No, best to check the guide in the pins
And just replace the first envenom with CT I believe
civic forge
so on logs it seems theres a decent split between hidden blades and crimson tempest for keys, is there pros and cons to both? personal preference? whats the reason for the difference
and even poison bomb
rigid eagle
man i dont fucking get wrathion
before he takes off for the first time im 80-90k dps like everyone else
but after everyone walks back to boss im suddenly down to 60k while other ppl are still 75k-ish
fathom swift
just run after him and cloak it ez
sleek pecan
You have to stay on the Boss and cloak the Explosion
rigid eagle
.
i legit dealt less dmg than a survival hunter by the end of the fight lol
gives me crippling depression
fathom swift
if you dont do strats to parse you wont parse
rigid eagle
strats?
fathom swift
cloaking the fire shit instead of running out
long portal
Watch a warcraft logs replay of a high ranking rogue
fathom swift
yes, you run in and cloak when hes got a couple seconds left on the cast
you take some ticking damage but nothing that will kill you through a healthstone
rigid eagle
what if the raid strat is to let wrath run back to group?
fathom swift
dont do it or run back with him up to you
rigid eagle
i see
civic forge
gotta dig through the parses that aren't millions of TA/stars damage
or ones that kill b4 pillar phase, unless you aren't getting them yourself
sleek pecan
Do you try to parse on mythic or heroic?
balmy condor
heroic parses aren't really impressive for most people imo
ornate gazelle
Anyone know offhand the difference in dps using the "use 3 abilities..." and "damage an enemy from behind..."
arctic walrus
30% uptime difference, dont have a number off the top of my head though
ornate gazelle
Ah okay so def want the damage from behind one
rigid eagle
@ornate gazelle the from behind one is insanely forgiving
your attack can legit be so "in front" that it gets parried
and you still get the buff
steep plover
Sims keep telling me to stack crit, do i ignore it and go heavy haste with expedient if it comes out tmr?
ornate gazelle
Wow that's amazing thanks guys
I asked because a socketed honed mind III use 3 abilities ring dropped and was curious if saving it for when i equip HMIII would be worth over the damage from behind one
Ultimately i'll just sim it
rigid eagle
@steep plover you can do some hacking and sim stat weight with the exped added lol, i have no idea how but supposedly you manually change the simcraft input
edit the string of stuff you copy/paste so simcraft thinks you have exped 3
idle nova
^
steep plover
Ill give it a look tyyy
idle nova
steep plover
Ye thats the one
steep plover
Oh right
rigid eagle
u'd kinda have to infer that info from what its telling u to wear
and sometimes simcraft doesnt make sense
like the time it said crit was my best stat but also made me drop bote minor...
idle nova
stat weights change with every piece of gear you change. pretty pointless. just sim for your top gear / best corruptions you can put on with the gear you have / purchased corruptions
steep plover
I fucked up by putting severe 3 on a 475 dagger 😭
rigid eagle
severe 3 is bis for m+ so
steep plover
Probs gna have ti cleanse to stack the expedients
rigid eagle
which 475 dagger is it lol
steep plover
Ye i mainly m+ but i think it might intefere with an expedient build no?
Um fuck
I forgot the name
Its the one thats heaps curved
rigid eagle
stats
...
if it has a shtload of haste on it u might consider cleansing, but like if its a crit master dagger
just keep it and oneshot stuff in m+ with it lol
last gyro
sleek pecan
How much haste should you have to go for exsang/ct build?
shrewd night
CT wasnt better for me until I hit ~55% haste, but sim yourself to see when its worth to swap over.
sleek pecan
Yeah im pretty unsure about my sims so i like to get other players experience
steep plover
Btw should i just hold on to my expedients till im able to get the gear for it (haste car or whatever)
I feel like that might take a while tho
sleek pecan
i feel like answering this is kinda hard, do you need the extra damage for your current progress? what kind of gear do you already have?
steep plover
Ye my bad for being vague, i dont really have much haste, its like around 43% crit, and around the 20% mark for haste
And 39% mastery
But ye my sims arent very good although i do end up pretty close to my simmed dps
I dont have much gear that has like a good amount of haste on it because i never really cared for improving raid dps till recently
gleaming viper
hello guys, im ready to buy 5 expedient but do u have any ideas why my stuff (6expedient3 and 1Honedmind3) sim better with 2xDD traits + subt/DS/TB talents (strange talents no ?) than 2xSS traits+ subt/DS/Exs ? does having only 2 SS could be the reason ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b3m9q6mLKtq8FmkQmjDv9C
unique depot
Anyone know why no matter what I do breath is consistently simming higher for me than bote by about 2k is it just better synergy for bote
strange python
If breath is simming higher by 2k, use it obviously?
Same for me, bit more than 2k though
It's nice for pretty much every fight in nyalotha by design
Bote/Clf pull ahead once again if you got a minmaxed expedient Setup and Shit I guess
Breath is just a really strong Essence, thats it
valid spoke
Do you use a special APL for Crimson Tempest on ST?
tribal obsidian
Whos ready for that rng rotation with no expedient
strange python
Fuck off I grinded my ass off in visions. Got 9 Sockets and 40k echoes ready to go for tmrw
Exp3 better be there
viral valve
If it isn't, I'm abandoning my rogue
hollow escarp
is there any spreadsheet with the snapshoting breaking points for bleeds? like how much haste do I need to get a 1.1 sec garrote?
fathom swift
what do you mean breaking points
hollow escarp
as I said, how much haste do you need for 0.1 sec faster ticks of bleeds
drifting cloud
no
fathom swift
does the specific tick rate matter?
shrewd night
No
hollow escarp
idk, I like to know that so I can understand how powerful the bleeds are
fathom swift
they do big dam
shrewd night
Literally doesnt matter
hollow escarp
so why do we need haste then? 
shrewd night
what.. you.. huh?
We want haste because haste is good, we dont aim for specific breakpoints
fathom swift
its like you want your racing car to go fast but you dont aim for "ok lets go 200 km/h exactly not 205 or 210"
same thing
hollow escarp
well, it's either that I didn't manage to explain what I was thinking of or I'm too dumb for this spec
drifting cloud
like we told you it doesnt exist
hollow escarp
so the tooltip tick is irrelevant?
shrewd night
Yes.
hollow escarp
ok, so every point of haste matters
fathom swift
yes
hollow escarp
thanks
shrewd night
The only time when haste matters is when you push exsang, outside of that haste is nothing you need to worry about
fathom swift
if you mean like does 99 haste give no increase in tick but 100 gives 0.1 no, it doesn't work like that
hollow escarp
yeah, I get it now
ornate gazelle
does honed mind have a consistent proc rate from pull to pull? gotta decide between 1 mind flay II or 1 honed mind III and they're within 100 dps of each other
cobalt pelican
tickrates are just original debuff timer/1+haste% i think
not that it really matters
so garrote is 2, 2/1.71 (71% haste) is like 1.1 tick interval
strange python
IIRC it mattered before 6.X.smth.
But ever since then, bleeds scale smoothly with haste in DPS and total damage dealt.
Like, if you have a 15s Bleed and your haste makes it tick every 2 Seconds, you'd get 7 Ticks and then none. Is that what you meant?
But ever since that Patch it will just deal one final tick at the end with damage equal to the %of the Tick that happened already.
So in the example Case: 7 Ticks at normal Power, one 50% Power Tick at the last sec
@hollow escarp
dire spoke
cobalt pelican
honed mind is pretty high uptime
ornate gazelle
thanks
fathom swift
def more consistent than mind flay
hollow escarp
so wait, if my slow mage timewarps after I applied my empowered garrotes, I'm not affected anymore?
tropic ocean
yes you are affected
cobalt pelican
every dot tickrate is checked and updated dynamically
besides exsanguinated bleeds
there's really nothing technical you need to worry about with this spec b esides not overwriting subterfuge buffed garrotes or exsanguinated bleeds
fathom swift
yes
hollow escarp
I knew about the overwriting stuff from S1 but skipped 2 seasons and I wasn't sure how haste affects the damage
thanks for clearing things up
vast forum
if ppl don't use lust in the first 6 sec of the fight, they're not just slow
they should switch to turn based games
lone junco
@hollow escarp haste is a major energy return. Letting you fill more globals. It's not just for bleed damage ticks. Bleeds on poisons return Energy.
spark oyster
@shrewd night Vita + Overwhelming Power 
💦
fathom swift
easy solution just bind drums to exsang, if they dont lust by the time you exsang its their problem
spark oyster
what if you don't want hero on pull 
fathom swift
unlucky
lone junco
If your lust is a notoriously late, you can hold trinket exang until it hits. The empowered garrotes and vendetta last quite a while.
You can run the opener without it. Just gonna be limp later when nothing lines up with it.
Imagine a mid block lust. Where you get exang on a normal garrote and no vendetta.
strange python
expedient
strange python
expedient is the best one
ebon forge
ah okay
lone junco
1 expedient won't make you a god.
12 with prioritized haste gear will make it consistent. But you still probably get to watch DH with 40% stars.
dire spoke
xd
lone junco
Also which is a single best vs stacked best. Cause ya guy is gonna be real sad wearing crit mastery gear with expedient stacks.
hollow escarp
this is what I hate about this patch. Now I actually need to farm 3 different sets for m+, raids and pvp
lone junco
Yeah. Now try playing a hybrid.
hollow escarp
lone junco
Gonna be a ret with 230% Ineffable.
lone junco
We were trying to lust p2 shad. And the p1 dps was so pathetic.
But yeah, if we call for a later lust and you hit drums, you'll be finding a new raid.
steep obsidian
lol
i havent killed that boss in like 2 months its going to be fun going back with the raid in mostly bis corruption now
i remmber first week it beind a bit of a rough dps healing check in p2
crimson palm
@shrewd night Vita + Overwhelming Power :ugh: 💦
@spark oyster is this what it looks like?
steep obsidian
is this a really casual guild?
lone junco
Cause I swear to God. The breath went out, druid tranqed. Right over the ms aoe. Ate the whole thing
slate shore
hello there , i saw expedient is Bis corrup atm, but with a Haste gear , which other corrup are good with some hybrid or crit stuff? twisted appendant still good?
lone junco
Normally stop at aotc but we had 18 so we got a few friends of friends to fill out for 20.
But figured since we had until November. We might kill a few bosses.
drifting cloud
if you are fine with huge variance of TA its fine yes
slate shore
ok thanks ryler
steep obsidian
yeah why not
lone junco
And expedient is not a m+ trait.
tepid tundra
Anyone have a rough %haste number to shoot for before even checking if exsang is good? Ravenholdt guide doesn’t really say
lone junco
We have always been skill level of few mythic raiders. A lot of heroic raiders and a few normal raiders.
So after gear creep we can do mythic. Just usually have a few dead people
steep obsidian
imagine buffing your whole group
crimson palm
i waited 3 months for my vita i can have my fun now
lone junco
@tepid tundra you should be stacking haste for st. And it should be a raid goal to get the expedients with exang. It's not a miracle like IS
spark oyster
well maybe i'll play it when itll outsim my 465 spyglass 
lone junco
But simc can show you the difference between your bis and that build. If they are close , I'd start heading that way.
But gear doesn't help your roatation.
Don't need a rotation if you stack IS and Tendy.
lone junco
Imagine pressing 12341235 and still being bis cause of stars.
crimson palm
he needs more of dem haste stuff
lone junco
The whole raid is a vita group.
crimson palm
tomorrow 
shrewd night
Take good care of my boi okaypapa hemo 
spark oyster
i think i simmed my gear with full expedient, and vita is like a 50 dps increase over my 465 spyglass 
crimson palm
im beating the crap out of him on meters atm 
shrewd night
oof
crimson palm
do u have any crit on your gear
like spyglass is mega downgrade for me at least
even at 475
spark oyster
imagine killing carapace 10 times and not having a dagger
shrewd night
its a good 1k downgrade for me
crimson palm
first kill i got chest & dagger
drifting cloud
475 plumage 475 spyglass OK DUDE
drifting cloud
rigged for sbs
crimson palm
need dem boots tho
spark oyster
i'm gonna try sub lootspec this reset
shrewd night
Y u heff to be mad ryler
spark oyster
my sin one is cursed
shrewd night
3 hours my guy
drifting cloud
2h
shell atlas
thx
drifting cloud
spark oyster
any mydas gamer in the chat
lime edge
I still dont have the haste workshop ring, fml
crimson palm
they either drop it for the 1st time so can't trade
@spark oyster we got a new rogue as well who needs it and i bonus rolled the second one
spark oyster
bad rng what can you do
primal grove
what essence should i run with 3x shrouded and 0 echoing blade traits in M+?
idk if blood is still good without echoing blades
spark oyster
it's good even without eb
primal grove
so how do i use blood effectively? do i just spam fan or alternate between fan and envenom?
mint valve
do you HAVE to have echoing blades for assa to work in m+?
stable isle
@crimson palm hows your new rogue doing? i saw him trialling a month ago in hydramist's guild and he kept dying on raden
was good 🍿 content
vast forum
@mint valve not mandatory
crimson palm
dunno he's doing fine on reclears
heavy forum
Scoop
lime edge
Imagine dying on raden lul
stable isle
Be nice to your new disc priest too 
cobalt pelican
stop creeping on his guild man wtf
sullen pagoda
dying on raden the 10 IQ healers special
odd heath
dying from too much healing
warm parcel
I got sold twice on this weeks raden
stable isle
His new disc is my mate
lean marten
did we win
crimson palm
i got sniped by our fkin ret pala with lay of hands
lean marten
oh wait we won't know until 10
crimson palm
and our monk goes for #1 dmg log with crane and snipes the rest xD
lime edge
1 hour left boys
tropic ocean
Blizz has such much trolling potential rn
Pls someone get the idea to differ eu/na rotation
fathom swift
If haste isnt up im gonna fuckin break something
crimson palm
it has to be
mellow pier
lean marten
inb4 snake draft and we are only halfway
loud brook
fairy is a certified doctor
pine badger
Other than rings, trinkets and azerite are there any specific "bis" pieces of gear for exsang we need to aim for or is it just the best hate -> crit gear we can find
tropic ocean
Due to recent critisism we decided to remove stat corruptions from the corruption vendor
Other than rings, trinkets and azerite are there any specific "bis" pieces of gear for exsang we need to aim for or is it just the best hate -> crit gear we can find
@pine badger cara chest, cara dagger
jolly star
haste>master=crit>versa
tropic ocean
haste>master=crit>versa
@jolly star
pine badger
Im personally favouring crit over mastery so I can keep roughly the same gear for m+
fathom swift
What is always true about that
jolly star
we are talking BiS, not convenience though @pine badger
pine badger
sure, but just checking as I didnt realise the rings were so good until yesterday
scarlet sequoia
any1 got a good sim
tropic ocean
@jolly star and even in bis stats differ
strange python
raz pls gib sim
tropic ocean
Cuz u can use any 475 pieces u want on non boots/weapon
jolly star
but it's usually a good tell if sim is replacing haste/crit with haste/mastery gear when haste is roughly the same on both
lean marten
i have a lot of haste/crit gear so my sim wants me to gem mastery and use masterful navigation. While Haste>crit=mast is a good guideline u have to sim ur char
lime edge
14 minutes
hidden maple
is the choice between gorak shoulders and ilgy shoulders just about your sims or is there a real choice there
hidden maple
yeah i figured this build is supposed to be more consistent and reliable thats why gorak confuses
me
fathom swift
Its not really unreliable
strange python
I mean, it's still consistent and reliable great damage
But you already pray for procs to do the giga DPS anyways
latent field
expedient III is up, thank god
strange python
Like, cloak and Vita proc b4 first exsang
lilac anchor
It's actually up? 🙏 for EU tomorrow
strange python
Niiiice
latent field
lilac anchor
Got 35k ready to go!
Gonna show those warriors whats up!
They been flexing with insane crit for ages now.
plain thistle
yeah, good luck with that lol
lilac anchor
A man can hope
cobalt pelican
expedient 3 week is the
warriors gain 30k dps week
unless you're playing with fury warriors for some reason
loud brook
time to sim furiously
hidden maple
the warrior in my guild always plays fury, he is kind of a savant at it though so maybe thats his niche
lilac anchor
Yeah, we have one that mostly plays fury. Prefers the play style.
mint oar
expedient 3 is back baby
sturdy mesa
hug to everyone who has waited for this day
vast forum
get premium
loud brook
true
vast forum
it's a smol price
loud brook
very smol
lilac anchor
illegally smol?
red plaza
all the haste
storm perch
yay 3-d haste is coming)
hidden maple
ive seen videos saying you want your crit around 34% is that right?
sweet rampart
I am not going to have enough to buy 7 exp 3s 😦 I for sure will have 5, and maybe 6
stable isle
there is no magic number
hidden maple
or was that just their pref
real solar
@sweet rampart buy some 3s then top off with 2s then lol
grave herald
is an ineffable truth good for assassination
grave herald
fair
broken oriole
I have a Lou Bega CD
sweet rampart
@real solar i am running 4 exp 2s at the moment
rigid eagle
hey guys, sim queue is at like 2k rn, can anyone just tell me real quick if there's a way to make this sht work
crimson palm
Yes if u respec
strange python
no
real solar
Use azerite tooltips PLS
woeful minnow
sanguine monstrosity is a scrap
rigid eagle
man such a shame for sanguine then
crimson palm
U will regret saying thay BB
rigid eagle
blood rite looks so promising but outer ring so trash lul
crimson palm
Inc 30 whispers
spark oyster
blood rite is garbage xd
lethal quartz
should i be putting exp 3 on only crit/hast pieces?
broken oriole
475 pieces gives 1000 residuum back right
woeful minnow
ye
rigid eagle
LOL 455 plumage outsims 470 alchemy stone yikes
karmic tusk
Alchemy stone sucks
strange python
@whole mantle get the mechagon haste from behind ring set
rigid eagle
feelsbadman
whole mantle
i only have the damage ring 😦
strange python
its farmable
solar flicker
whole mantle
yeah i'll farm and put a insta socket 😄
this exang build on this week is good for keys ?
tyranical
plush remnant
Sims telling me 475 dice is better than 475 plumage. Just curious if one or the other performs better in raid.
sturdy mesa
@solar flicker gotten 3 of those in a row
spark oyster
Extravagant Epaulettes are pretty good 🤔
sturdy mesa
Yeh using 1 for single target 1 for aoe atm
main adder
Everyone saying get haste, get expedient 3... but raidbots in patchwerk and hectic shows expedient a downgrade for all my slots... trhis game has mne completely confused now... there's just too many variables, M+ gear, raid gear, single target, multi target, talents, essences, traits, corruptions...
crimson palm
Ok
main adder
i could use some help sorting this out if anyone is available 🙂
fathom swift
Link sim?
main adder
raid gear or M+ gear?
fathom swift
Raid obv why run expedient in m+
dire spoke
when an old meme gets relevant again
strange python
why do you post a quick sim if you want help with gearing decisions
dire spoke
but it doesnt show your bag options
strange python
it saves the input so we can press "sim again" and see all the options
fathom swift
If expedients simming at a loss st its prob cause ur running different talents etc. to most people now
main adder
ah
fathom swift
Like not running exsang + ss etc
tribal obsidian
Or not enough
lean marten
or running simbaits like IS
vast forum
if expedient is simming at a loss, you have bad azerite/trinkets/low haste probably
like, not having OP on gear makes expedient less relevant
tribal obsidian
Im guessing infinite stars compared to like 2 expedient
fathom swift
Hes not using is its just the talents
hidden maple
instead of simming against your current build, just leap of faith commit to the new build and try to make that one stronger.
main adder
a new one wont work if I dont have thr right stats to make it work
vast forum
get gorak tul's 😄
main adder
so i cant just leap into it, it'll suck
fathom swift
Nah your stats are prob enough
vast forum
also, your SS/DD/subterfuge/TB build is kinda weird ngl 😄
you need ra'den helm and gorak/ilgy shoulders 😛
mint oar
does the ilvl of the item affect the exp worthness?
fathom swift
Try simming with exsang and deeper stratagem see how it goes
main adder
ok thanks Bolas
fathom swift
You dont need 3x ss or full expedient to make it usable
vast forum
0 OP on azerite, no vita and no haste essences
no wonder expedient doesn't sim too well
overwhelming power
wet ruin
pretty sure he was trying a single expedient from the corruption picker, so there is very very very low chance exsang is better with that
mint oar
nvm
vast forum
there's almost no haste to be amplified on that gear
mint oar
do you run deeper strat in m+?
fathom swift
I was playing exsang with 1 expedient piece months ago its not that bad
wet ruin
its not better
willow pulsar
Better at what
wet ruin
'it gets better', yes, with multiple expedients and SS
fathom swift
Better at doing damage
willow pulsar
Nah
plush remnant
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tRFep2yhaJRVxfUUh8dC1 quick question. Would any of the other trinket combos be better for certain raid fights?
hidden maple
but i wanna tank
fathom swift
It starts at about the same and scales more whats bad about that
main adder
I have a vita but it's 445 so I havent been using it
hidden maple
full build MA/TB will probably do more dmg than duct taped Exsang build sure
but MA/TB has already kinda reached its peak
tribal obsidian
MA 
woeful minnow
you misread what he's saying
proven talon
i must have
jolly finch
He never said there was
woeful minnow
or just misunderstood
strange python
dd/tb/subt plays fine with lots of haste and even with ds, no need to force ss/exsang if your gear just isnt there yet
wet ruin
^
fathom swift
can you link me a sim
@wet ruin what kind of sim do you want me to link, i havent had that gear in months
wet ruin
just do it with your gear, put only one expedient and show me exsang is better
main adder
ok doing a top gear sim for ya... so you can see what otrher gear i have, maybe i can pout expedient on 2 of those pieces or something, but ya, i def need better azerite pieces.
wet ruin
I am saying this cuz almost everyone here is telling people to go full expedient and pick certain talents when they don't have the gear for it
strange python
full expedient is fine just everyone wanting to play ss/exsang isnt
tiny sierra
does exsang apply to crimson tempest as wwell?
fathom swift
I said "Try simming with exsang and deeper stratagem see how it goes" not "exsang is always better buy only expedient"
wet ruin
yes, thats my point, tb is not that far off from SS exsang, it only gets ahead with very end-game gear
broken oriole
Would the 470 carapace dagger be better for offhand due to the haste? I don't see an option for offhand on raidbots.
strange python
@main adder how many echoes you got right now?
main adder
11k
wet ruin
ye, but there is no point in getting him to sim exsang when he clearly doesn't have the gear for it
fathom swift
Its already a 2k dps increase so clearly he does have the gear for it
tiny sierra
so you shouldnt be actively going outta your way to exsang CT bleeds?
sullen pagoda
how do u know if "he clearly doesnt have the gear for it"
it doesnt cost him anything to just sim it
fathom swift
^
sullen pagoda
and its not like hes gonna buy some other corruption, expedient is best at the end of the day exsang or not
fathom swift
Brain sims < actually spending 5 min to see what real sims say
storm perch
ye expedient is still great even if you go DD/TB
wet ruin
ah yes
CLEARLY
he sims better with exsang
just cuz you told him to pick it
this is my point
for no reason
fathom swift
Now try with the 2 extra rank 3 expedients he can buy 🙂
lean marten
Time is more valuable for different people 
main adder
ok
quasi pewter
@fervent jasper sim 🙂
sullen pagoda
@fervent jasper S I M
main adder
Thanks Annsie and everyoine for the help so far, I really appreciate it
strange python
it doesnt even matter if he plays exsang or tb, he wants expedient anyway
with either build
its the exact same stats
fervent jasper
1 target patchwerk 5m?
main adder
its also simming so high cos he added sockets to my gear that doesnt have them
fathom swift
And when its within 100 dps (without any optimization) and will only scale higher the better gear he gets it's a bit disingenuous to say he doesnt currently have the gear to use it
woeful minnow
bro did you actually sim 2 minutes to prove a point
red plaza
patchwerk 3m is a good one depending on your guilds kill times as well
strange python
its also simming so high because its 180sec