corruption is a healer mechanic
#assassination
scarlet sequoia
lilac anchor
haha, my healers would not agree 🤣
glad compass
@scarlet sequoia can i please see your endgame sim w/ the gushing?
steep obsidian
you can get away with high corruption on some fights but not others tbh
but yeah if your healers are ok and you dnot dying /shrug
lilac anchor
Ya, fair.
scarlet sequoia
steep obsidian
tbf seems to chain spawn sometimes on like xanesh raden and stuff
glad compass
ty @scarlet sequoia
lime edge
Sin has cloak, throwing dagger, feint, sprint, blind
steep obsidian
if you take constant dam
steep obsidian
throwing dagger?
steep obsidian
that will save you at 59 corruption?
lean marten
those wasted globals add up and cripple ur dps
lilac anchor
ah damn
indigo elk
can do mouseover
steep obsidian
or at least mouseover it i mean
strange python
to throw a poisoned knife at the tfb seems like a wasted global tbh
glad compass
@scarlet sequoia i cant seem to figure out how your sim is 4k higher then mine 😦 ic you have 5 ilvl on pants higher than mine and some neck lvl but i dont think that adds up to 4k
spice surge
Neck levels are pretty big
glacial steppe
@glad compass last time ive checked neck lvls were like 5-600dps for me
so it easily can make up the 4k
shell atlas
@scarlet sequoia you think that stacking expedient with tb dd build is viable? ive tried the ss one and im not very good at it
fleet whale
yes you can stack expedient with tb dd build
expedient is basically bis for any ST assassination build... maybe some crit stuff gets better for DD
but you're still good if you stack exp
strange python
DD tb build seems like a waste of the expedient build
tribal obsidian
Pretty sure they are close
fleet whale
more haste means more reliable tb windows
strange python
it works but it seems like wasting the potential of expedient stack
tribal obsidian
I just like how SS scales with more targets
strange python
it feels amazing to play tho
tribal obsidian
Over DD
main forge
How is SS on mythic hivemind? My outlaw is straight trash... I am not comfortable and don't have the rotation down without looking at buttons, and on that fight standing in shit happens every 2.6 seconds
strange python
good
fleet whale
SS is very good on Hivemind
lean marten
tbh if u have 1-2 fmages ur STing priority adds most the time anyway
fresh abyss
@strange python no i use vigor in raids
strange python
then you envenom at 4 or 5
fresh abyss
should i use deeper strat?
fresh abyss
true ^
red bloom
the sims have spoken, they have deemed my gear suitable to play ss exsang over the VoP life
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qSFLsTxtPYgUM8SaKKA1JS
tribal obsidian
If you simmed clf i think it would have had you switch sooner
Im betting even now its prob higher
red bloom
I dont doubt that, checking now
tribal obsidian
Also its recommending coral prob because you didn't sim clf
Because of bote
Im guessing if you went vita with clf
Youd gain like 2k
I also dont know if you locked in the honed mind iii but thought you needed more haste for that to be good
All this mythic gear makes me jealous 😕
bleak spoke
why is the shoulders set to 475 and not 480 lmao
red bloom
unfortunately I have, I needed the corruption to get my hod after removing the wiggly boys off the dagger now that we're on nzoth so I could stay under 40
bleak spoke
@lean marten
lean marten
Idk i just ran his sim again with tweaks lol
red bloom
It doesnt seem to like the vex chest
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rjG82JaWwMm8SYhyHixRex
with the HoD on the heroic carapace chest, it pics vita and CT also giving the third SS for -800 dps, if my guild reclears anytime soon it'd be sick to be able to get the helmet off raden
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/giQbn24hZYC3pF4NBrXyJp
all will change next expedient week soon anyway so happy with that 🙂
glad compass
@lean marten tyty
shell atlas
expe3 is next reset?
shell atlas
yes i mean, m+ reset
tribal obsidian
Still have to see when something finally repeats
Could still be some randomized system where things can only be in one rotation per cycle
But not always the same
woeful minnow
it'd be really troll if they did that
tribal obsidian
Especially if exp 3 ended up at the end of the next cycle lol
woeful minnow
Odd question, what would be the best way to build a gw set? haste/vers? haste/crit? just straight up ilvl over stats? I know it's not optimal anymore, just an experiment
red bloom
ilvl + haste/vers seems bonkers in arena atm with loads of gw and vers%
lilac sparrow
for 3ss exng sin, do they use BotE since their sims says it's better? my sims always say CLF is better...
lean marten
CLF generally sims better but ppl BotE for preference
because CLF tries to prepull cast
or w/e reasons ppl have
lilac sparrow
OK I'll use BotE anyway 🙂
red bloom
can run hc Raden helmet for that third OP and HoD without CT
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vTWxTvqtgUT7GdP3wyhKvz
lime edge
For bote, do you just delay it for vendetta everytime?
olive hornet
so might be a dumb question, check around but couldn't find an aswer or maybe i ddidnt know where to actually look but... With the suffocation azerite trait and subterfurge... my initial garrote does a lot of damage, aight? If I cast a new garrote does the new garrote's damage override the old?
strange python
U overwrite the 1st garrote with the 3rd cast in the subterfuge window
Outside of it u dont
For example
Garr - rup - garr in the opener
olive hornet
so i re read for the 5th time the pinned posts and it does not say anywhere if i should or not overwrite it...
there is a mention to the pandemic thing thou
strange python
I just answered ur question
olive hornet
i know u did, but someone reacted to my question with "check the ping"
grizzled jay
in the pins
woeful minnow
how does that answer his question
strange python
How does it not?
woeful minnow
his question's obviously not about the opener but about the following non-empowered garrotes?
strange python
Yes and the guy before me answered his question and i followed it up with more details and gave him an example
woeful minnow
his question has been answered now but that screenshot is completely irrelevant and the answer isn't in the pins
olive hornet
okay okay no need to argue, lone did answer my question and so did yoppa and i'm thankful for that
thanks jnas for understanding what i also meant with the question
swift timber
looking at logs some people let subterfuged garrote expire before vanishing and applying a new one while other vanish in pandemic window and refresh it
is one more correct than the other?
strange python
The apl doesnt let it expire
U vanish as soon as its in pandemic window in the apl
swift timber
it actually does let it expire
steep obsidian
Is that ss or no ss?
swift timber
obviously omega shit dps
but if u look at ability log
it lets it expire unless im giga low iq
garrote at 2 seconds then vanish at 28 sec
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rvVeMZZ6LiStWfgHqWrR7y
It doesnt normally
Cant check ur gear rn im on phone
swift timber
well it's terrible lets just say that
strange python
What % haste does raz have in raid gear?
cobalt pelican
you let garrote fall if you're pllaying ss
and if you're not
you garrote in pandemic
swift timber
the Raz sim it garrotes in pandemic despite having SS tho
woeful minnow
but he raises a good point, his sim has 1ss and it lets garrote fall off, raz plays 3 (obviously) and it refreshes during pandemic
cobalt pelican
no it doesn't
swift timber
oh right
cobalt pelican
he's just playing exsanguinate
swift timber
exsang
cobalt pelican
so the length is shorter
swift timber
yeah I realized
cobalt pelican
yeah
woeful minnow
dur
strange python
Mb then
swift timber
Is there a reason for it though?
wouldn't u want to vanish sooner to match with vendetta
sturdy python
Waste of empowered garrote ticks to do it early
woeful minnow
more empowered ticks of garrote is more important I assume
swift timber
I see thanks
strange python
I guess you could vanish on refresh of first garrote or when next exsang is up
cobalt pelican
the root of it is that
without ss 2 garrotes on the opener isn't worth it
which kinda means that how you handle vanish changes naturally
strange python
I mean if you are using ss and subterfuge
cobalt pelican
delaying vanish to outside lust to align with an exsang kinda just sounds bad but idk
fleet anchor
I mean the main reason you would let it expire in an Exsang build is that you Exsanguinate the first one and you can't pandemic Exsanguinated DoTs without overwriting the tick rate
You always let Exsanguinated DoTs fully expire
Which is what the APL does also
cobalt pelican
i'm surprised we're not actually at the point now that non-ss subter garrotes aren't worth 2x on the opener
i guess it causes vanish to be outside vendetta more later
bleh
grizzled jay
Is anyone here moderately good at WAs?
I'm trying to write a Garrote WA but it keeps using the Silence aura not the Bleed aura 
strange python
Exsanguinate never feels amazing for me to use for some reason
steep obsidian
its kinda fun on the bosses in visions when they die in like 5 secs
tropic ocean
@strange python it will when you outburst firemages
strange python
With tb I am roughly the same dps as the firstmage in my guild on opens, I will play more with exsang to try but I am so used to playing tb
wet ruin
fire mages got their masterfulls now
strange python
hahaha
but when I use exsang in my open, it doesn't take me to like 180k dps the same as tb does
maybe just because I am bad with it
fleet anchor
It makes Rogues actually look good on prog wipes so you won't get benched 
tropic ocean
then you do something wrong and/or dont have the appropriate gear
strange python
Is mastery essential to the exsang build?
cobalt pelican
should be able to use that and not have any issues
cobalt pelican
rather than specific names
strange python
I am 58% haste
grizzled jay
Is there a general minimum Haste requirement before Exsang competes with Toxic Blade, or with SS does it compete immediately.
fleet anchor
SS doesn't really change when it becomes good, it requires a fair amount of Haste
But you just have to sim, there's no hard point
Probably 3-4 Expedient items at least
strange python
It sims better for me, I guess my next expedient + dropping my stars I will feel more difference
lime edge
Do you delay bote for every vendetta/vanish?
fleet anchor
And need even more Haste for CT to win
lime edge
Yes
strange python
corruption is fun lol
indigo elk
yeah
strange python
400k burst?
tropic ocean
yup
strange python
and you follow the open in the guide of the pins?
wet ruin
thats not 400k burst, its 400k dps at that exact point
strange python
What haste are you?
cobalt pelican
it's funny how obvious it is when you get an op proc on pull
fleet anchor
lol I mean keep in mind, that burst is essentially kinda fake.. like.. at the end of the day Exsang just tacks normal ticks on to the end of the fight in essence. The burst is 95% damage you'd do within Vendetta anyway over a smaller "burst".. but it does feel good 😛
tropic ocean
blue line fire mage dps
fleet anchor
And Mages will probably stomp you on total damage anyway on most fights because they are a balanced spec
strange python
At the moment I am about 90k-95k average on single target fights
tropic ocean
theres room to improve
strange python
with tb even though exsang sims better
lean marten
yeah but in that first 30s ur COOMIN
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor i mean for pure st if we compare firemage vs exsang rogue
not too high of a difference
cobalt pelican
which is kinda sad
tropic ocean
like r1 is only off 7k dps
fleet anchor
lol yeah exactly
steep obsidian
yeah cept for the fact that ignite hits everything
tropic ocean
which is okayish I guess
lime edge
So um
steep obsidian
fk mages 😛
tropic ocean
but for everything else mage big
fleet anchor
we do basically the same damage on ST and then they do 2-3x damage on everything else 🤣
tribal obsidian
Just wait for SL bois
fleet anchor
Our Mage is in heaven because we only have 1 Mage atm
Which means he gets such a ridiculous amount of cleave damage his parses are like.. insane haha
tribal obsidian
Is he the GM
fleet anchor
No, I wish we had more than 1 Mage we just haven't gotten any Mage apps since our last one left 😦
storm perch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
storm perch
any wa for last ability used?
white wyvern
thin gate
guys, why did a Sub rogue just 290K crit me in arena with Eviscarate
cobalt pelican
https://wago.io/RvbxkQEv2 is the closest thing to trufigcd i think in weakaura form
onyx osprey
What specific reason is there to run 1 Twist the knife on DD raid build?
cobalt pelican
there's not
cobalt pelican
in the distant past people used to have one because cephalohide jacket was the best chestpiece
but that's not been true this tier
onyx osprey
Ahhh
That explains it. I'll stick to double hod/triple dd/ 1 NP in that case
Ty :>
quasi pewter
Ppl use 1 ttk because its the best trait on carapace chest if ur not running exsang build
quasi pewter
Iirc no
tribal obsidian
Hmm
quasi pewter
But been a while since i simmed non exsang
viral valve
How does clockwork heart or scheming compare to HoD/Gorak tul?
strange python
Anyone that can recommend an assassination build without needing bote ?
go clf instead
it works
viral valve
Thanks, just trying to plan out what azerite to go for, as I'm not likely to get other mythic pieces than maut helm.
fleet anchor
Does the SS not sim higher with subterfuge even in DD build
SS is usually kinda borderline. It depends on how much Haste you have more than the build.
Although I'd suspect it should edge out TtK fairly easily at our current gear levels
But some people run MA instead of Subterfuge for some reason
Because they love RNG and hate their lives I guess 😄
tribal obsidian
Haha
fleet anchor
50% of the time it works every time!
tribal obsidian
Sounds a lot like sex panther
frigid briar
never a more true statement
grave marsh
Should I bother with Exsanguinate? Sitting with 2xSS and only 35% haste unbuffed atm.
The only gear I don’t have haste in is gloves. Need to get more sockets as well. And expedient 3 to come back lol. I am still rocking an IS2 and a gushing.
indigo elk
sim is your best bet
steep obsidian
i mean it depends what you are doing
its worth getting used to it for pve its extremely strong for mythic n'zoth
grave marsh
Mythic raiding progression. We are currently 4/12 working on hivemind
steep obsidian
you are probably going to suck with it for a little bit until you get used to it
its not hard its just not mindless like tboncd can be
grave marsh
I’ve been playing with it for about a week. Do great on Maut and Skit but man do I ever suck on Wraith
steep obsidian
timers dont work well for wrathion anyway and who cares 😛
you can play visions for that if you want to so you can get an extra vendetta instead of having to hold it for a year
loud brook
biggest 5head cheese ever and ima do this on my next wrathion clear
actually not even cheese
just awesome cd management
steep obsidian
yeah that works too
paper kelp
even what you can do is feint the gale blast
and have it up for burning cataclysm
which makes it so you don't even have to run out of gale blast
open briar
hey, wich stats is best for assa in raids, i'm actually outlaw and wanting to change for raids
frigid briar
125K on maut not even rank 1 - plebs 1 healing, fuk them guys
rancid spade
anyone have tested gushing on both daggers and boots from cara??
strange python
Someone had gushing replace the expedient 2
on dagger
another week without cara chest or dagger ):
scenic nacelle
for a 6dps gain
versed mica
is there some sort of "bis" when it comes to corruption stacking, or is it literally best to stack expedient on everything?
tired quiver
Does the rogue have discord have any shadowlands discussion? I haven't seen much about rogues in SL
Other than outdates videos
sturdy python
Can discuss it in the spec channels, no specific channel for it
crimson terrace
How much corrupted moments does everyone average on 5 masks, if you do all the objectives. I've been only clearing it, but now that i'm 7 sockets behind i feel like I should get every little bit extra i can
twilit hollow
just over 5k
crimson terrace
on one run ?
by just clearing i've been getting 1500
i'm missing out on sooo much then
steep obsidian
there is a weak aura you can get that will track whether you have looted all the crystals and chests in an area
also get the handynotes addon and the plugin
steep obsidian
and that will show you were the crystals are
sturdy python
something like that
steep obsidian
i think its a little bit more then that
jagged axle
my haste is scuffed
jagged axle
but i got it from 14% to 17% at least
arctic walrus
You can get 2.2-2.6 depending on which zone it is and how many objectives you get
sturdy python
Vel, do you have a full expedient setup for sin?
sturdy python
Ok, just simming something to compare to the expedientr build so was hoping to find a profile that already had the expedient one setup. I used search function though, ty
tight gate
Full clear all chests all crystals all enemies defeated got me a bit over 4.5k mementos with 4 masks. So 5k should easily be doable with 5 masks
lime edge
All enemies defeated, wtf
edgy ginkgo
hey guys, would you go for infinite stars instead of haste% if the sims says it? or would you go for plain damage and no procc shit?^^
strange python
infinite stars is good on like one fight
young portal
@edgy ginkgo Infinite stars is pure simbait
edgy ginkgo
so you would say hjaste%?
lime edge
Yes
edgy ginkgo
here 2 sims for compare
young portal
haste + consistency all day
strange python
try simming crimson tempest
edgy ginkgo
i guess fuck on the 1,8k and have consistency?^^
strange python
and 4 min
thin owl
so for mythic+ i should stack crit?
lean marten
for visions farming u can change gear mid run so just swap between EB sets for the mobs/bosses
young portal
i guess fuck on the 1,8k and have consistency?^^
@edgy ginkgo yes
lean marten
ez farms
young portal
so for mythic+ i should stack crit?
@thin owl severes and strikethroughs are the pick yeah
thin owl
i should farm 2 different setups then one for raiding and one for mythic+?
tall rose
What build are you guys using for m+? are you going sang with exp r3 or echoing blades? Poison?
lean marten
yes, raiding stacks haste with expedients. m+ stacks crit & strikethrus
fleet whale
infinite stars really isn't that bad at least in my experience
fleet whale
i wouldn't use it on every fight but i found it to be decent on Wrath, Shad'har, Skitra, Maut, Xanesh, Ra-den
lean marten
raid does SS with haste
leaden scarab
so my buddy says take poison bomb instead of crimson tempest in m+. that still true?
thin owl
is there a build in m+ that stacks haste?
tall rose
I want to do m+ more but me dps is decent but I’m also using 3 echoing blades with the EB talent as well.
fleet whale
you can still use expedient pieces in M+ if that's your question
in fact the corruption is quite good in M+
lean marten
its not terrible but EB works best with crit
tall rose
K. Cause I have a lot of haste. Like 50% in my st raid build. But haste is like 30. I’m running the sang build. Can I used the same talents for mythic plus or should I change to crimson tempest or stay poison Bomb
fleet whale
idk, someone on here said he runs 22s and 23s basically using his raid set-up with expedient for M+
you have to note that garrote is a very large part of your damage in M+, and exp helps with that, along with better boss damage
tall rose
K. I normally run echoing blades x3 with the talent and I always seem to do lower dps at 474 ilvl
vast forum
i run 22s and 23s with raid setup
but you need other 2 dps to be aoe blasters for it to be worth
tall rose
K. So the average player wouldn’t then. Would they go echoing blades or stay sang but stack haste
fallen bone
Is there a way to prestack blood minor prior to pulls?
rancid bobcat
attack something
fallen bone
More for prog between pulls when all trash is dead. Like if the dropable target dummy stacks it.
fleet whale
i don't think you can drop things like the turnip in raid
rancid bobcat
if you cant attack anything then you cant build stacks
if none of the toys work then you cant attack anything
edgy ginkgo
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gtdgrmRA3ZuuxSmLjrwuCV crimson tempest sims worse than bomb^^
for me
worn crag
Guys how much EB is needed for M+? I only played outlaw as my twink and I´m bored of it now..^^
I have irontide head / gorak tuls / cara chest
polar cape
at least 1 but triple garrote is must have
tall rose
@edgy ginkgo would it be simmed for dugeon slice instead of patchwerk if it was for M+ or am i missing something.
strange python
Is the corruption rotation predictions that we get expedient on Saturday?
quartz depot
next saturday isnt it?
strange python
I don't know for sure and I lost the pictures of the predictions
paper kelp
It might be next week at reset
strange python
would be perfect if so
paper kelp
its either june 16th
or june 26th
but we can only know next week
since this week is the last 2 rotations
strange python
Thank you, I knew it was around the end of the cycle
I hope it wont be random after this
having crimson tempest simming top for me would be nice for hivemind
cobalt pelican
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qVp8DH88uvCPo1VrXuGPWk i actually made it to the promised land of real gear
strange python
still no goraks?
paper kelp
can we not talk about shoulders please
rancid bobcat
strange python
harsh sphinx
cobalt pelican
next week i have some gear shuffles to do but idk if i can be bothered
stop flexing on me man wtf i'm nearly big
drifting cloud
yea mr. neck farmer
cobalt pelican
i got 93 this week actually blasting
harsh sphinx
thick neck
cobalt pelican
94 next month!!
strange python
112k blood sim 
scarlet sequoia
408k now
drifting cloud
long portal
so you got it next week? xD
scarlet sequoia
im not that much of a mad man
long portal
300-400 dps per neck level?
cobalt pelican
lil more i think
scarlet sequoia
500-600
strange python
Goraks gang
I tried to get hood of the slithering loa, but I have had all other helmets 2 times..
solar flicker
start pumpin out 445 rolls on shoulders so you can get a baby goraks for the mog
so u can at least look like a pumper
strange python
just to prank the peasants
dont fall for it
its just an evil plot of big gusher
long portal
GW is better than exped for arena and keys, I would assume thats why hes using it
until he gets 6 cara daggers xD
fleet anchor
@cobalt pelican why bother scrapping it when you don't need residuum? Just delete them tbh
lime edge
3xss and 3xeb only comes from vendor, right?
long portal
Yeah
lime edge
fk u blizzard
long portal
1 hat, 1 chest, 2 shoulers
rancid bobcat
theres like 2 chests
limber lion
More like 14.25k
rancid bobcat
and 3 shoulders
lime edge
pog
rancid bobcat
but 1 hat
long portal
only 5 total hats tho, so 20%
lime edge
im not getting no peasant level 460
limber lion
idk just did quick shit match in head and
limber lion
Oh yeah I was right
long portal
60k is specific
lime edge
yea
limber lion
14.25k for all 3 if you gamble
lime edge
and get lucky tf
lime edge
wtf
limber lion
Used 5 rolls for Gorak Tul's though
lime edge
get fked
limber lion
Oh no
limber lion
Just use Raidbots droptimizer. It'll tell you to gamble or wait.
limber lion
Ah right
lime edge
2/7 chests
cobalt pelican
this week i didn't have any option but gw on dagger
my other dagger had exped1 and i was playing 54 so
it was a straight upgrade and i didn't have a spare exped 2 to replace it
next week playing gw on dagger is -189 dps which is legit w/e
rancid bobcat
i wish i had a dagger
cobalt pelican
pretty annoying oversight for 0eb on raid gear anywhere
rancid bobcat
lime edge
yea
cobalt pelican
unlucky we still have no monk so
lime edge
the fact that the gear doesnt drop anywhere is kinda stupid
lime edge
am i supposed to delay bote to use with vanish/vendetta?
strange python
yes
lime edge
so bote acts as if it had a 2min cd, kk
crimson palm
bursted maut for 560k XD
lime edge
pog
why is it casting g1 mut g2 after vanish
wtf
y not just g1 g2 envenom
interesting
crimson palm
ur wasting a garrote tick
lime edge
oh oops
didnt post ss
there u go
mutilate
not rupture
oh wait i get it
u want garrote to be ur first and last gcds during subterfuge?
crimson palm
ye
lime edge
gotcha
cobalt pelican
what else would it use
the only thing that i could see ever being worth it is a lower cp rupture depending on how timings line up with rupture
but i imagine it was looked at
cobalt pelican
no
crimson palm
no
lime edge
how come
rigid eagle
i mean why do a 3 cp envenom when u can mut-vanish-garrote-6 cp envenom
lime edge
what
rigid eagle
just dont vanish with 0 cp lol
feel like that sim is trolling
does it maybe not take into consideration the combo point from SS?
bleak spoke
that sim doesn't look like it has ss
grizzled jay
All the openers I saw on various guides say to Garrote-Rupture-Garrote-Azerite/Vendetta-Mutil-Rupture-Exsan
I think the point of the Rupture after the Garrote is so your Exang'd Rupture is max duration
But if you are playing TB it probably doesn't matter
elfin saffron
is the 3 abilities meca ring a good sub until i get the backsetb one?
vast forum
y
grizzled jay
what 3rd ability would you use to trigger it reliably every 15s? no meme. kick maybe? or does kick not count
verbal sparrow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fQF5BGS7c5Em2aYTScUiaC
Boiz those trinkets, I know I should go for whatever sims higher but I'm still not sure about spyglass
rigid eagle
@grizzled jay u trigger it whenever u reapply garrote right
or does garrote not count
grizzled jay
depends if you are using SS tho right, cause you'd want the empowered Garrote to finish fully which is 18s if you dont have vanish up
so you'd have 3s of not procing it
rigid eagle
yeah lol, 3 sec with every vanish isn't that bad right
grizzled jay
but also idk if Garrote counts
rigid eagle
plus exsang makes garrote not last as long
also also, if u play tb
that thing is like never not up
just faceplant into keyboard every 25 seconds lul
grizzled jay
it does say spells/abilities and not specifically damaging ones so Garrote/Kick should proc it
So just use Kick to proc it lol
same cd
and kick is off gcd
reason why backstab one is best is because you'll need at most 1.5s to proc it after the 15s window (first global -> 2nd globl + off gcd ability) whereas the back one is just going to auto-proc immediately coming off. so i guess it's only +1.5s if you need to use Garrote to proc it
elfin saffron
no feint
rigid eagle
riperino then
elfin saffron
and kick
grizzled jay
Kick doesn't count?
elfin saffron
no
grizzled jay
weird, it's an ability used on the target
guess it has to be damaging even though the tooltip doesn't specify
cobalt pelican
everything counts that's not mutilate
elfin saffron
throw dosent work either
cobalt pelican
evasion tricks kick detection w/e
elfin saffron
hmm sometimes it works
cobalt pelican
i think all of the other spells that people think don't work is just because they try it with mutilate in the combination somewhere but idk 100% cause i've n ever played it
like poisoned knife -> garrote -> r upture should reliably proc 100%
long story short just get division band ez
cobalt pelican
n
grizzled jay
wait did they specifically code Mutilate to not count because they were too lazy to code it to only count once since it is 2 damage instanecs
small indie dev team
lime edge
for openers on hivemind
do u guys try and double subterfuge garroite both bosses?
or just focus dps one
and then regular dot the other one
or something
cobalt pelican
you just garrote one, garrote the other, then garrote the initial one again and then
continue your opener
i save bote for ravager 3x garrotes but idk if good or not
grizzled jay
would you 5-cp rupture both before Exsang or just 1
grizzled jay
could you run MfD to do it to both
cobalt pelican
rupture on a second target is kinda low priority in that situation
you.. could
but that sounds like a big dps loss
grizzled jay
over Deeper?
cobalt pelican
a single rupture on a non-exsanguinate target in the opener sounds very low value
like one target will have the full 23.4 sec emp garrote, rupture anyway, vendetta on it and exsanguinated bleeds
and the other is basically a 18 second garrote holder
grizzled jay
you Garrote-Garrote-Garrote
grizzled jay
phase 1 is together, then apart, then together
lime edge
yea nvm
cobalt pelican
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fgkYzJXp3MhmLtV7#fight=28&type=casts&view=timeline&source=16 this is what i do on every 2t fight but idk if it's right or not
it was similar on jadefire
but w/o ct ofc
grizzled jay
how high is prio on Tempest against just 2
cobalt pelican
honestly not sure
i usually put it above rupture but that's a non-concern past the opener
because rupture is very long
so it will never fall off anyway
grizzled jay
fair
cobalt pelican
and the pandemic window for rupture is like.. very long too
grizzled jay
have you tried using Tempest before Exsang in the opener? or probably a dps loss to delay it another 3 globals
cobalt pelican
i think the priority always lies in getting as close to a st opener as you can
but that's not been tested by me it's just by personal feels
grizzled jay
fair nuff
cobalt pelican
any time i over convolute the opener or t ry and get everything up it feels like the actual opener itself just loses power
grizzled jay
that's fair. openers are dumb anyways
sturdy python
In tc updates it should have what the apl does on 2 targets
Which seems like it’s 3 poisoned bleeds>CT
verbal sparrow
I think if you sim better with tempest, try to look on that rotation it gives you
even I myself think it's not worth it to yeet tempest into your exsang opener but not sure
jolly bison
could someone help me figure out where I can find more damage or what I could upgrade to get more damage?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3wM9mhsymVHMMqcwPQc94M
lime edge
does vers nav sim better than quick on your offhand?
fast nacelle
do most Assassination rogues just have 2 sets of gear for pve? (one for ST and one for AoE/Cleave fights)
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3w3d6S3m6aS5335xPStNi9 gw finally pulled ahead for 100 dps
raz sorry i doubted you
grizzled mist
for Exsang build; when Exsang is coming off CD and Rupture/Garrote are below 25s/15s. should i refresh my bleeds immediately then pop Exsang?
viral iris
wow was literally just about to ask that lol, i am curious as well
sonic prawn
Do you guys know if the 12% haste is coming back soon ?
chilly marsh
16
sonic prawn
Ok ty
void pecan
Is that confirmed nown
orchid solstice
whats with crimson tempest rise to power?
hazy flame
is it worth to delay vanish for tripple garrote on Raden after first set?
gentle belfry
hazy flame
you can pull bigger packs with outlaw when you arent playing echoing blades
which makes it faster I guess
but easier I would say the bleed build when you struggle with the bosses
you can pull pack after pack with and wouldt run into any time problems
grizzled jay
Assassin kills bosses faster i would think
cobalt pelican
ya you right i didn't read anything today
seems like mostly my feelies were right with some minor tweaks
grizzled mist
you can swap specs mid vision and go Sin for bosses if you really need it
vast forum
assa is just better for visions
grizzled mist
hard disagree
shut garnet
or u can chill n take it slow with outlaw and not forget to evasion a boar or some shit n bin the vessel 
astral tiger
Are there any WAs that will show if you have an empowered garrote or an exsang rupture/garrote so you don't accidentally refresh it too early?
loud brook
leeching poison op
misty holly
It's hard to give up leeching poison for soloing
can do so much more with assassination because of it.
losing recuperate hurt a lot for outlaw
crimson vial is so much worse
vast forum
@grizzled mist what does outlaw do in visions that assa doesn't?
press 3 garrotes and the mobs die on their own in 5 sec
lime edge
^
leaden scarab
is EB worth it on lower keys?
lime edge
and crimson tempest is op aswell
vast forum
want aoe? use CT or EB
lime edge
i personally just go my single target items, but use ct
for visions
garrote does way too much dmg for anything to matter
tall rose
whats eb? Hidden blades?
lime edge
echoing blades
vast forum
echoing blades
static wind
what are y'alls ilvls to solo 5 masks?
tall rose
Echoing blades isnt a talent haha.
tall rose
that why igot confused
lime edge
cape level and memento upgrades
tall rose
i can 5 man both visions.. am at like 472
vast forum
i 5masked both visions back in late february 
tall rose
haha i just switched to rogue like a month ago
lime edge
whats ur /played
royal lantern
thats something i dont wanna check tbh
static wind
amen
static wind
69 days this level 😉
tall rose
haha mines 15
lime edge
mines 14 days 15 hours
tall rose
at this lvl
vast forum
127 days this level 🙂
astral tiger
So if I'm doing the exsang build with Bote, do I take vision minor? Because will I not have to wait for my vanish anyways?
plain thistle
you just hold BoTe for vendetta+vanish+exsg
astral tiger
Do I hold my exsang for the 15 seconds or so until my vendetta comes back up?
I would assume so, but
cobalt pelican
what do you mean
you get exsangs on 0, 45, 130, 215
(obviously not this precise but)
the 215 one should line up pretty well usually
astral tiger
Yeah, so if I have an exsang at 1:30, do I wait until 2:00 for my second vendetta?
Oh ok
cobalt pelican
you won't be pressing vendetta till vanish, so it'll be around 215 anyway
but exsang might not be up depending on what your previous uses look like, and if you need to press vanish straight away (for timer reasons)
then you'd just vanish vend and exsang later
astral tiger
Is there a preference between galecallers and plumage? I have a 465 galecallers and a 475 plumage :/ But I think I understand, that makes sense
cobalt pelican
people generally use plumage because it's easy and reliable and not that much worse
both are good though
tall rose
just did lfr for echoes and got a damn 430 belt with rank 3 Expedient
wasted all my luck on lfr..
astral tiger
Aight ty ❤️
near coyote
does [Exsanguinate] effect gushing wounds?
cobalt pelican
no
near coyote
that woulda been cool eh.
cobalt pelican
wouldn't have made any difference really
loud silo
whats the purpose of running CT with the exsang build? I've just been using poison bomb and im curious
cobalt pelican
exsanguinating a dot that has a fixed proc rate doesn't r eally add any damage anywhere
you generally want haste for exsang and haste makes ct tick faster
where as poison bomb remains largely the same
loud silo
so the high amounts of haste makes CT worth
cobalt pelican
yes
loud silo
but its not affected by exsang right?
cobalt pelican
it is
loud silo
oh okay
cobalt pelican
it's very rarely worth shoehorning it into an exsang setup but
it'll happen naturally on all but the first to have some of it exsanged anyway
loud silo
sweet thanks ❤️
cobalt pelican
idk if i messed something up but 1x expedient 3 for 92week 1x expedient 2, 1x expedient 1 for 98week 1x expedient 3 for 101week 1x expedient 2 for 107week is all i need now from the vendor
which is pretty neat
v low echo cost
guess it means i can probably afford to spend some echoes on 'low' upgrades next week like a 5 ilvl belt upgrade and w/e
loud brook
make a meme build with vendetta and vop major and ineffable when you get everything 
tall rose
how much haste should we have for the build
solar flicker
ALL
tall rose
well how much to start.. i cna buy all slots next time but i really dont want ot put on 465 gear or 460
should i wear that rank 3 exp on a belt thats 430
kindred temple
Does fan of knives apply gushing wound?
astral tiger
I think so, but it doesn't proc any more than it would on a ST
At least that's how it works for outlaw
devout shadow
anyone know what to do about exsang build azerite pieces? i sim higher using 1NP 2Hearts 1 SS 1 DD gorak tul crit than 3SS 1NP 1Heart 1Twisted gorak tul crit but everyone seems to say 3SS is better. Should I just ignore sims and go 3 SS? (cara chest is 475 not 490, and helm isnt raden, its irontide or cowl of fluid machinations)
Single target btw
glacial steppe
do we bote before or after exsang?
astral tiger
after
loud silo
@cobalt pelican how would the opener work with CT?
woeful minnow
your first envenom is actually a CT
glacial steppe
^
first finisher after opener is ct
then just keep it up and refresh it in pandemic
manic harness
wait vop major is meme build? fucking friend told me to use it and it sims better than bote
also my guild is just now doing illy so vendetta lines up nicely with the brains
drifting cloud
its a bad build for alot of fights and prog in general
not technically a meme since it still does ok dmg
solar flicker
in a 5 minute fight wont it give u an extra vendetta
civic forge
should i even be bothering with the Raden vers trinket? i got both trinkets on mythic. currently using vita + 475 galecallers
manic harness
@arctic walrus thank you
grizzled jay
no the shield absorb trinket is bad
manic harness
Bad thing about the trinket is that the +crit only lasts while your shield does
Any AOE damage kills the crit
civic forge
yeah thats why i asked
but just ran a sim, and its still 700 dps worse even with the set bonus turned on
so rip. got 2 expulsom from raden today :(
rocky ibex
tropic ocean
@devout shadow u play what sims best for you
Yes 3ss is better IF you have the appropriate gear
arctic walrus
mythic gear, buy expedients next week, get gorak tuls, plumage/medallion
fallen ivy
is there a number of echoes needed for getting the full expedient setup? i am probably gonna be starting from scratch.
arctic walrus
you'll end up using about 7 expedient 3s, so you have to have 35k by tues/wed
void pecan
Can you use all 7 on tuesday without being crazy corrupted tho
fallen ivy
35k... ffs
arctic walrus
if you have an up to date cape sure
long portal
I really wanna buy gushers, but I dont want to farm for more echos for expedient 🥺
solar flicker
tropic ocean
send echoes
tropic ocean
storm lava
hi here my top gear, i want to know why they put me red socket on , and ashvane trinket and not the kr trinket
also they put bomb poison and not tempest
if someone can give me some advice
elfin loom
what does SS stand for in the pins?
dull lava
Shrouded Suffocation
runic tinsel
@storm lava Ashvane trinket is pretty much BiS as far as i know, Stat weights change all the time, sometime crit is better than haste, Poison bomb is the best talent in that row for single target.
sick scarab
i super noob question.. but the bleed build is for single and aoe ?
or for aoe better 3 ss + 3 echoing blades ?
tropic ocean
3ss+3eb better for aoe
runic tinsel
Im really wondering how in the world you get above 90k dps. My guildies all sim over 95k and im at around 81-82k atm. Heres my sim with expedients but its still so much lower than thiers.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kmAQrcYBDdsahPKh93mezx
arctic walrus
well your sim dps depends heavily on your class
hunters are up to 120-140k atm st
you just lack a lot of sockets and mythic gear
runic tinsel
Im 7 bosses deep into mythic, chest from vexiona is a given i suppose, but is the belt and bots from xanesh and maut any good? Next boss we progress on is Ra-den but he
s probably a few weeks away
sick scarab
simmed wiht exanguinate ?
runic tinsel
yeah
sick scarab
and crimson tempest ?
runic tinsel
ah no, not with tempest
sick scarab
it give lower than toxic + poisn bomb ?
try deeper stratagem, exanguinate and crimson tempest
runic tinsel
alright, ty
sick scarab
ah i see you dont have ss equipped
then i suppose it is normal you do more wiht toxic + poison bomb
dull osprey
How do you handle looking at logs like WoWanalyzer for fights that have downtime or fights that require burst cds to be saved for certain moments (like nzoth)? Most of the "advice" it gives me is "use your cds more" and "stop letting energy cap"
tropic ocean
u dont
dull osprey
So do I just have to filter through it or are all fights like that going to give skewed data that wont work?
tropic ocean
just compare your casts/movement
to the ones of higher ranked rogues
or watch some twitch to see what u can improve
dull osprey
gotcha. You use WarcraftLogs for the comparing?
tropic ocean
ya
dull osprey
Coo. Just time for me to git guud then
tropic ocean
practice will help, step by step
runic tinsel
Can i take the sim from gear compare and run it in top gear somehow?
strange python
i thought crit was better than haste in pve
runic tinsel
Crit is for M+ and AoE i think
I want to run this sim in top gear to see what talents/essences i should be using as soon as im lucky enough to get my hands on a razor coral
dim yacht
i had an odd thought - on aoe if running a crit build, could it actually be worth it to use a macro to cancel the haste buff from blood of the enemy, so you can get crit stacks again instantly?
dire spoke
often items or abilities like that have internal cooldowns
dim yacht
i just tested it
if you cancel the buff, you can get stacks again instantly
thats why im asking
i dont think itd be worth it on ST, but on aoe perhaps
dire spoke
and if you dont cancel it, it wont stack?
dim yacht
no, you cant get more stacks while you have haste buff
arctic walrus
I think this was talked about forever ago back when it was introduced
I can't recall if it was a slight gain or non negligible so you just go on normally
arctic walrus
@marble hemlock didn't this come up awhile ago
dim yacht
glad im not the only one to think of it lol
seems like you could just macro the cancel to fan of knives?
dim yacht
yeah
marble hemlock
yeah, you should do it
dim yacht
any min target to make it worth?
arctic walrus
how big is it
marble hemlock
dont think theres any giga minmaxing to be done in terms of "Only do it at 3 or 4+ targets" or smth
pretty big
dim yacht
really?
marble hemlock
that means 3 echoes every fok, on average, on 5 targets
+3 initial fok crits
thats 18stacks per fok, not counting bleeds etc.
meaning if you let the haste run full duration, youd be back to a haste proc within ~2GCDs
which lasts 10sec
or 8, i dont remember
anyway
if you dont cancel, youll have like a 20:80 split of crit:haste buff on aoe
if you do cancel, its more like 60:40 ish or smth
its somewhat significant
dim yacht
how much of a dps increase do you think it is?
marble hemlock
if you dont cancel, youll essentially not have a critbuff on aoe for more than a second or two
6483,28dps
dire spoke
lol
dim yacht
lol
marble hemlock
idk man 😛
dim yacht
i didnt mean exact number 😛
marble hemlock
depends on the situation
dim yacht
yeah, fair enough
marble hemlock
its impossible to gauge
arctic walrus
wow not even a real sin m+ tc'er
marble hemlock
yeah gl simming assa m+ or aoe even
dim yacht
its so hard to figure out if im gaining or losing damage sometimes like
wtf do i sim, and if i dont sim
marble hemlock
tried it once, theres so much stuff thats not "optimal" in there that youd have to get rid off to get a decent idea
dim yacht
unless im running the exact same key with exact group
i cant really tell for sure fi im gaining or losing damage lol
arctic walrus
I will make this nzoth trinket work 
dim yacht
the caster one?
waxen socket
How would that macro look like?
marble hemlock
yeah
just a simple /cancelaura xyz /cast Fan of Knives
id log in to get the exact buffname but you can just check it yourself within a second
and i cba logging in rn 😛
waxen socket
ok the buff is called blood soaked right?
marble hemlock
they both have the same name
dim yacht
oh
waxen socket
before removing all my buffs 
marble hemlock
but you cant cancel the critbuff, only the haste one, so it doesnt matter
dim yacht
yeah
waxen socket
Ah
dim yacht
makes sense
waxen socket
Cool thanks
dim yacht
@arctic walrus curious if using that trinket has any viability lol
i assume you mean the nzoth caster trinket as sin
waxen socket
well i've seen DH using obsidian claws in pvp nothing would surprise me at this point
dim yacht
yeah, and ive sold a plate stacked temple key to a resto druid
for the merk fang
he didnt get it
feel bad for him lol
arctic walrus
yeah I dont think it's fang crazy but maybe it would be fun who knows
dim yacht
the nzoth trinket honestly looks like aids
marble hemlock
problem with the nzoth trinket is that you wanna use it before bote
dim yacht
esp if you were to use that in m+
dim yacht
i cant even imagine trynig to use that shit in m+
arctic walrus
yeah you need big brain thinking ahead 10s
marble hemlock
well
seeing how bote is like
your 5th or 6th gcd in a pull
yeah
youd have to use it pre-combat 😄
and at that point you lose quite a bit of value
dim yacht
its cool to think about though