otherwise they'd probably be bis
#assassination
vast forum
fleet whale
yeah i think the shoulders i'm using has unstable flames
which isn't bad but it isn't OP
vast forum
also, the chest competes with a 490 so it's simply outscaled in SS damage 😄
fleet whale
would be crazy though if we could get an ideal 3 Clockwork heart set-up though
1600+ of each secondary in the opener? sign me up
err 1200+ lol
rapid flame
say, theres a trinket which turns all your secondaries 75% into one stat, 25% into another stat (which you can choose freely from), this buff lasts for 12 seconds - depending on how it works with corruption stat increases do you think this would be viable? (having 6k+ mastery for fatty garrotes on opener) & idk some other quirky stuff you can do with it
rapid flame
thats what i mean, you get the snapshot from the mastery bonus
vast forum
you don't get mastery snapshots
vast forum
not mastery
just haste
it only snapshots the tickrate because i think they can't code bleeds to tick twice as fast but still update dynamically
although i could see it being used for mastery in a different way
rapid flame
ok well, what about converting all your secondaries into 75% haste (not sure if affected by expedient) and 25% into another secondary, would that be any good?
vast forum
use exsang first, then use that thing to turn everything into mastery
thick root
A few people have been telling me that dungeon slice sims are extremely inaccurate... does anyone have a recommended alternative?
trying to figure out my trinkets still
rapid flame
it's an on-proc and which stats gets converted & how depend on the yellow punchcard https://www.wowhead.com/spell=299464/subroutine-optimization
depending on how it works with stat % amps im sure one could find a niche use for this
vast forum
punchcard trinket isn't as good anymore
simply outscaled
@thick root 4-6 targets 40-60 sec sims without hero/lust
fervent jasper
How many targets is it worth using CT on? 2+?
strange python
hi guys is gushing wounds still good or ?
vast forum
@fervent jasper 1 if you have high enough haste
fervent jasper
low haste
fleet whale
have to have really high haste to get to that poin though
vast forum
gw is still good but not the best @strange python
fervent jasper
m+ crit build
thick root
thanks Yoppa :)))
strange python
which one is bis currently ?
fervent jasper
Im sitting at 11% haste
fleet whale
expedient isn't actually that bad for M+ tbh
especially if you are only doing like 15s
vast forum
it's very much not bad
i've been doing a few 22s and 23s with my raid build and i feel like it's better than an aoe build
if you have 2 other aoe pumpers
fleet whale
plus, all that haste means more garrote damage, and garrote at least in my case is the highest damage source in M+
and you get more boss damage with a bit more haste
vast forum
i personally prefer dropping a bit of aoe for single target in m+
people severely undervalue killing bosses fast
balmy cloak
I've been playing Outlaw in M+ for Fortified weeks, but on Tyrannical sin is for sure better for me, garrote dmg on ads is great.
fleet whale
ideally you would probably want to balance out haste and crit a bit for M+
vast forum
i prefer sin on fort personally
on high fort weeks you can run out of bf charges on outlaw
fleet whale
i don't think it's good to be running M+ at like 15% haste lol
vast forum
can't run out of garrote damage if your tank doesn't chainpull 😄
balmy cloak
yea I could see that, if you're doing smaller pulls
vast forum
tbh, when running 0 EB, mastery sims the highest for me for small cleave AND aoe
like 3 targets mastery is by far the highest
6 targets it's still the best but by a smaller margin
winter gale
Exsang build with CLF....how to play 2nd and every next CLF?
vast forum
depending on fight length
winter gale
To delay vendetta for it or it for 3rd vendetta?
vast forum
you either press on CD or delay for next vendetta
winter gale
Mythic Fights
fleet whale
is formless void major going to be the new meta though?
fleet whale
like you borrow CLF from another player, so you don't have to get the crappy minor
winter gale
Ok, so either on CD or Delayed for 3rd vendetta
pearl widget
Is gushing wounds still viable since it's purchasable this week?
vast forum
@winter gale there are ~3 options i think
- 4 min fight where you don't have 3rd vendetta, you can delay 2nd vendetta for CLF
- 5 min fight where you get a 3rd vendetta, you delay clf for it
- 7 min fight where you don't want to delay either vendetta or clf because you'd lose casts
bold rock
hey all, so im very very new to rogue and i was seeing that for assassination, you run expedients and a lot of people are running deeper stratagem. would it be better to take vigor over deeper strat until i have more expedients/haste?
steep obsidian
you can sim talents to see what does more dam but with low haste and crit yeah deeper strat will feel garbage to play regardless of the dam it does
bold rock
thanks! ill definitely sim, was also just curious of the opinion of people who have more experience playing the spec 🙂
mortal umbra
how much haste do you guys recomend for exsanguinate build?
vast forum
all of it
glacial steppe
i wish
blightborne would actually proc once
too bad they bis
literally averaging 30% crit on garrote
hoary crown
void pecan
then you either wait 8? weeks to buy a piece outright OR gamble every other week roughly for the right piece.
sick oyster
Yes
mint oar
thank god
amber stream
is getting 1 gushing wound worth it to run with 6 expedients? or shall i not waste the echos
as in 6x20= 120 + 15 for the wounds for a total corruption of 135
sick oyster
Sim it id say
main forge
I want to get gushing just for the side pvp that I do 😦
lime edge
20K resid is 10 weeks of doing 15s
so 2.5 months
haha...
if u want to buy 3 pieces thats 30weeks
7.5 months...
late tusk
Gushing worth pve?
amber stream
I am doing the sim now with 6 exps and 1 gw
digital pollen
if haste>>>>>>all why do we need gorak for shoulders and not the use 3 spells get haste thing?
amber stream
gorak tul's give 1.4k-ish, however, the rings are good as well, but I wouldnt prefer the 3 spells one
royal lantern
difference bettwen 3 spells and from behind is close too 0
royal lantern
the difference is littearly almost 0
the hell you talking about
is 99% vs 95% uptime
vital haven
on sims maybe
digital pollen
im not talking about rings. i meant the azerite trait Meticulous Scheming
amber stream
besides wrathion, there is no point using the 3 spells one
vital haven
last time i tried 3 spells one it was like 50 uptime
digital pollen
and why is that?
digital pollen
proccs like all the time for me
royal lantern
3spells rings procs from frking everything
you can start with a proc from doing feint>veil>stealth before you attack
cus EVERYTHING counts as a spell for it
frking mounting up counts as a spell
vital haven
ye but in your usual rotation when are you constantly using three different spells that you can get 95% uptime
fleet whale
you garrote sometimes
tropic ocean
lol
vital haven
lol
fleet whale
i mean, if the kyrian ability ends up being the best
tropic ocean
not sure if the haste is dps gain when u need to use weird spells to proc it
vital haven
i mean idk when you have to use fucking feint prepull to proc it
fleet whale
we might have to get used to Poison knife being in my rotation
vital haven
dont evne bother imo
fleet whale
assassination really doesn't look good in SL at least imo
royal lantern
i have fking 80%uptime on xanesh while beeing group 1wich means 123551253135years of doing nothing
idk how you end up with 50%
tropic ocean
good im leeching gear on dh already transition will be easy
royal lantern
except if you afk
outer hatch
15 second buff, too hard to chain 3 abilities to refresh in that window. 🤔
fleet whale
assassination could have a 8-10 button "rotation" in SL
vital haven
look im not saying you cant get a high upotime
tropic ocean
@outer hatch its not about beeing hard
fleet whale
the attack from behind one though
main forge
roll mage or warlock, never bad.... and by the end of every expansion just tossing globals on everyone
fleet whale
is like passive
tropic ocean
its about if its worth differing rotation for it
vital haven
but thats why i said at the beginning get the attackj from behind or dont bother
tropic ocean
because normal rotation doesnt cover it
fleet whale
like you don't even have to worry about it
vital haven
if you have to do shit like feint shroud and stalteh to proc it at the beginning
just dont bother lmao
royal lantern
people here always go "GO BY SIMS"
main forge
I don't get the attack from behind one... It will be useless in solo content
royal lantern
ye the difference is not that big, dont worry
"YE BUT THATS IN SIMS, I IGNORE THEM FOR THAT"
truly a 5000IQ moment right there
i only go by sims when it suits me 
royal lantern
and i didnt say LMAO YOU JUST FEINT SHROUD SPRINT ON PULL
last gyro
like wrong timing
royal lantern
it was an example that everything procs it
main forge
Every fight is different and no sim can simulate your imperfect play on a fight
vital haven
65% uptime
royal lantern
its active on pulls cus you use 3 different skills in the first 4gcds allready
fleet whale
why are people getting so mad over like 300 extra haste lol
last gyro
ty
tropic ocean
exactly
wouldnt bother getting different one to attack from behind as its no brain
and requires no rotation alterations
last gyro
what tier is your IS ?
modern heart
guys have you seen worldvein with galecaller
thin owl
is assassination viable in m+ as much as outlaw is ?
vital haven
yes
@last gyro i wasnt responding to you btw
but what do you wanna know about shadhar?
thin owl
@vital haven was that yes for my question?
vital haven
yes
thin owl
ah okay lol thank you
unreal kayak
would love if blizz replaced hidden blades with echoing blades for shadowlands
main forge
Should just combine them
lean harbor
reckon its worth to put a gushing on cara boots? i can run sub 40 once i do hc
or do i just wait for expedient?
strange lava
can anyone share stats for the haste build ?
strange python
full
strange lava
any videos that shows the dps
vital haven
uhm
saryero streamed the build last week
sec
here you go @strange lava https://www.twitch.tv/videos/640146887
chrome grove
is rogue able to reset the wrathion debuff stacks ?
vital haven
yes
strange lava
thanks @vital haven
chrome grove
do i have to use both ?
vital haven
either will work
chrome grove
oh cool
vital haven
was just listing them lol
chrome grove
ty
vital haven
just save up echoes ghostly
expedient 3 might be coming back on the vendor next tuesday
strange lava
i think its rank 1 atm
strange lava
ohh
maiden totem
how much were expedients from vendors?
sick oyster
5k for r3
main forge
correct
strange lava
dam
oblique pewter
yoo
strange lava
that dagger will never drop for me
sick oyster
Hope I can get mine tmrw gz aus
lean marten
still clearing heroic huh Ausr
zinc coyote
hey guys been on my mage so im a bit late to the party here but is there a good guide on the exsanguinate build?
zinc coyote
tyvm
vast forum
no
gray flower
hmm
rancid bobcat
i was lied to
vital haven
imagine going void minor and getting a 60% uptime 
vernal walrus
is good to buy some gw corruption or better just wait por expdient¿
lean marten
stars sims /dab
fleet whale
I think i read somewhere that IS proc rate scales with haste but don't quote me
minor thicket
Does anyone know how long before a corruption piece can be returned
If I buy something this week can I return it next week
If I don’t use it
arctic walrus
You can buy it and not log on until new vendor spawns
zinc coyote
worst part of wanting a vita is i gave a mythic socketed one up earlier in the tier :/
fleet whale
why did you do that?
cobalt pelican
rookie mistake
royal lantern
why did you gave up a sockted vita wtf
zinc coyote
because i have a 475 socketed spyglass and socketed 445 coral
royal lantern
vita is a good trinket since the raid is out
zinc coyote
never thought id ever use it
fleet whale
what
opal minnow
don't feel too bad, i gave away a socketed slapper to a trial that got denied the next reset.
zinc coyote
ohhh no
royal lantern
why would you give loot too a trial without asking first if yoou will accept him/its ok too trade oO?
opal minnow
im not lootmaster
fleet whale
lootmaster with personal loot....
zinc coyote
your personal loot doesnt matter when your raid team uses rclc
tropic ocean
@lean marten heroic lul
fleet whale
Yeah, I'm not gonna join any guild that uses rclc with forced personal loot in place, and i especially wouldn't trade gear to a trial
main forge
Now I remember why they brought in personal loot due to master loot being a pos.
fleet whale
i don't mind loot council at all with master looter
loud brook
I mean, just look at classic
it's just filled with countless stories of loot drama with ml
glacial steppe
@vital haven bro, teach me how to log at carapace pls
vital haven
you just press buttons
tropic ocean
tunnel boss
vital haven
and have no life so you can get gear
main forge
blow dps cooldowns on psychus
tropic ocean
yeah blow dps cds on psychus
fleet whale
psychus isn't in carapace
tropic ocean
in carapace
elfin saffron
@vital haven did you look at my log if im doing sometihng shitbad?
fleet whale
they do share models however
vital haven
seriously though, my guild goes for speedkill on carapace
really helps since wclogs change
oh ye @elfin saffron let me take a look
main forge
Don't allow team mates to bring shitty alts.
loud brook
run echoing blades and shroud. maximize vanish cd for pad 🧠
glacial steppe
whats the difference between normal strat and speedkill strat tho
tropic ocean
lel
fleet whale
speedkill strat you kill the boss faster
vital haven
then just go into transition doint use any cds there cause that dmg doesnt matter that much anymore
loud brook
👏
glacial steppe
well I did the usual 2x vendetta p1, 2x p3 and yeah
loud brook
or just do what these 99% parse mongoloids are doing and run 80-90 corruption of tendies or expedients
vital haven
come out of transition use 2 sets of cds try to get mced at the end so you get dmg buff and boom
as i said earlier @glacial steppe speed kill strat really really helps
because you enter transition with inflated bloodlust dps
loud brook
fight becomes with 90 corruption
glacial steppe
is it just giga blast or actually a different strat
vital haven
you just gigga blast at the beginnning with bloodlust
fleet whale
what's the highest corruption you have run on any boss kill on any difficulty
drifting cloud
59 🙂
glacial steppe
hmm, need to convince my raidlead to try that out once we have the skip 
vital haven
you gotta phase carapace before second tentacles spawn
drifting cloud
wait can you even do that nairda
loud brook
yes
drifting cloud
sounds like a pretty hard check
loud brook
just have 5 fire mages
vital haven
look at my log lmao
we have 4 fire mages that giga pump
im going full ST going clf not even using blood
loud brook
easy
vital haven
the key with the speed strat is you gotta phase it befroe the second set of tendies
loud brook
also nairda, give me your 480 gorak tul mantle 🗡️
vital haven
ye thats a fake rank 1
lmao
its like 100 parse rank or some shit
its weird i feel like i did way more dmg on yesterday but last week it shows i did more dps idk its weird
glacial steppe
we had some weird ass timings today
vital haven
and no @loud brook never
glacial steppe
usually we phase him 5second after second set of tendies dies but today he phased way earlier so it delayed my cds
loud brook
glacial steppe
wow analyzer isnt really useful for exsang isnt it
vital haven
ok @elfin saffron wrathion is about having as much uptime on him as possible
i dont see any gross mistakes except for the fact that one the first transition you didnt stick to him
loud brook
wrath still takes ticking damage if you refresh the bleeds before he jumps right?
vital haven
you can survive the flame pillars you just gotta use health pot/hs and cloak the the right time
glacial steppe
sooo you need to stick to wrath with pot/hs and cloak to get a parse? always wondered but never bothered tho
elfin saffron
but surely that wont make me go from a 65 to 100 there most be something else (gear,curropt etc or am i totaly wrong?
loud brook
wow
my healers are gonna hate me next week
also this is the gear that's waiting for expedient to come back https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2tUtGriu3QBw1sZh9zMehy
spark olive
so, checking alot of the parses everyone using TB build stacks TA and thats pretty much it. does stacking other corruption reduce the chance of tendy proc. i use a couple flays but on entire boss fights i get maybe 2 proc's within a 4-5min period.
vital haven
ye looking at your gear and setup @elfin saffron running more corruption would help a little bit
getting rank 3 blood would help a lot
elfin saffron
yeah im 5k from rank 3 and got 30k eco for haste 3 when it comes
and my weps could probly be better
but happy im not doing rotaion totaly wrong
vital haven
ye i mean you are simming at 77k patchwerk
actually nvm its 73k so ye get better gear, a better azerite setup, id also suggest runnning at least 25 corruption and see if hod would be better on your chest
elfin saffron
aighty ill try and do that thanks for looking at it
vital haven
like for example just from your own gear setup and adding an extra corruption
you go from 73 to 78
elfin saffron
is HoD trait better then ss
vital haven
hod trait is really good
glacial steppe
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RH9ykJTcGKVv41Ap#fight=59&type=damage-done&source=397 anyone bored enough to give it a look? wondering if i messed up big time tho, feels like i did but cant figure out if and where
vital haven
bis setup atm is 3xSS, 2xHOD, 1xBBI
ill bookmark it and take a look at it later
i gotta go do m+
glacial steppe
aight, cool
elfin saffron
aight ill try and get that do i need 3xss before i can go exsang build
heavy lark
anyone got a recent Raz sim?
digital cosmos
so im at a point where my sims are better by switching to an exsang/deeper strat/crimson tempest build over my current toxic/vigor build. i understand i want to exsang after applying garrote out of vanish, and apply a long rupture w/ pandemic before using exsang. but when should crimson tempest be used in that rotation? and during the exsang window is that the best time to vendetta/blood of the enemy and spam mutilate/envenom? i dont have any experience with the exsang build and searches show general rotations but dont explain WHY
digital cosmos
so during exsang you repeatadly use ct as your finisher and envenom outside of exsang window?
opal minnow
just pandemic refresh it like you normally would
strange python
Around what % haste should i be aiming for? have an aoe build rn.
feels like haste regen got so slow
cobalt pelican
if you're playing a crit based build with eb, like.. very little haste
placid kindle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wJbr6vimHkv2pg5euPPMyf should i rly trust this sim
cobalt pelican
what are you skeptical about
do you really have 4 carapace items with this gear wtf
placid kindle
Coral for vita ye?
Thinking aswell to maybe put gushing aswell on 485 ring but would need to check value
rancid bobcat
some guys are just lucker dogs
placid kindle
But was thinking to purge daggers and just put 2x expedients on them aswell
Coz fuck TA
strange python
that's the path our prophet Raz has showed us
placid kindle
Just dunno if its overkill on haste coz statweight tells me to go more crit
strange python
raz has 76% haste
opal minnow
ignore stat weights
cobalt pelican
just.. add the corruptions to the sim?
prisma perch
spiral adder
I'm at a conflict right now
Pin says stack expedient
but my sim tell me that i should go for severe
main forge
Go take a look at top dps parses for fights... Mostly all of them have expedient.
And what sim fight are you using?
spiral adder
That's why i said it's in conflict
I want to know why
Not to have a finger pointed at "look at what they're doing"
cobalt pelican
because it's generally the best simming corruption at high gear levels and the more you have of it the better it gets
spiral adder
I'll try adding a few more see how it goes then
cobalt pelican
at lower gear levels it's kinda up to you what you want to do
you can either plan long term and accept losses for now
or upgrade your gear gradually with corruptions that suit you now
spiral adder
I already got a few pieces without the vendor, so sticking them should hinder me too much
But at least i have a better idea on where to look for when considering the corruption vendor
waxen socket
Question about the bleed build with CLF and poison bomb vs CT. From raz stream I saw CT was the way to go at the max expedient build but right now poison bomb still sims higher. Is that a sim trap adwell?
And CLF second usage together with 3th vendetta right?
arctic walrus
no it'll sim better for you when it gets better
waxen socket
Alright cool
Since CLF still sims higher then blood aswell. Just rank 7 expedient atm
sonic iris
does font change anything for assass?
vocal hedge
Hey, Td2 or Appendage2 for m+?
solar flicker
fuck tendies
scarlet sequoia
hello i am here to answer questions
@arctic walrus is also
and @gusty kestrel
and @quasi pewter
solar flicker
o.o
red plaza
pirates or ninjas?
solar flicker
WHAT MY ROTATION WHAT TALENT I TAKE
sudden brook
Cmon dude
honest basin
Hey I've been wondering, wouldn't Crimson Tempest be better than Poison Bomb if you play the Exsanguinate build with REALLY high haste even on single target ?
cobalt pelican
no :)
sudden brook
sudden brook
LOL
rigid mango
Appreciate not getting masspinged
hidden bay
Hey i did lower dmg than one of our rogue alts today on shadhar am I a bad player? @scarlet sequoia @arctic walrus @quasi pewter @rigid mango any thoughts
rocky ibex
how would it be the rotation with exang and SS X3
arctic walrus
we said no dumb questions, but yes you are
scarlet sequoia
thats in my newly written guide! @rocky ibex
scarlet sequoia
check the pins!
hidden bay
I checked his guide, my dps went like 15k up. Thanks man
arctic walrus
You just have to know who to give a little nudge to under the table
woeful minnow
check your ingame stats?
novel arrow
I wanna know if I get 600 versatility. how much % that is
crimson palm
Why would u care
novel arrow
@woeful minnow ty. 85 per 1% seems really low. I thought our stats were 100s per 1% I guess I was wrong
fierce vine
is there a guide somewhere on how to use coral
grizzled mist
maybe stupid question? so im a little confused on which build wants which corruption. right now im non-exsang build. so do i want gushing wounds with cara daggers then exp 3s? or just exp 3s with a cara dagger? but then reading the pins it kinda sounds like exsang wants full exp 3s.
so i'm a little lost lol
rigid eagle
@grizzled mist sin isn't a dead spec like sub lol, we can use raw stats really well
generally it's crit + crit damage for m+, and haste for raiding
snow hamlet
Sry but when i stacking 3*exp(lv3), my haste aep decrease to 9, and crit/mystery increase to 10, should i still stack exp? ( with TB build)
limpid rose
how good/bad would it be to stack 6-7 gushings now compared to lets say 4 x exp3?
sonic iris
is it ok to envenom back to back as long as there is no other spell that has priority
woeful minnow
how would you do that
grizzled mist
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet anchor
Enjoy the new CT rules in #tc-updates . Feel free to ask questions if you want more detail. 😛
arctic walrus
simming for sin aoe 🤮
fleet anchor
Hey, my Crimson Tempest did more damage on N'zoth than Rupture tonight 🤣
loud brook
crimson tempest 🤮
sweet rampart
hmmm Got vita finally, but it did not increase my sim dps much at all. Think that is normal?
loud brook
essences and azerite pieces will probably bump you up to 70k
once you have those maximized
and heroic daggers
sweet rampart
850 rep to go on ulduum
and yeah i need daggers badly
i was thinking that was why vita didn't change much, my ability to damage in general even with the haste proc and stuff is just low in general, i am sure it will scale better with better daggers
and ill ahve rank 3 focusing this tuesday
@loud brook think that 3rd SS on an azerite piece would make a massive difference? I forget sometimes that I am still just running 2 of those
loud brook
i mean, i'm not well versed in the nuances of exsanguinate
but i would lean towards yes
woeful minnow
I don't think you have the gear to be playing ds/exsang tbh
hollow vigil
yo should i replace the mindflay on my shard of the black empire for expedient
sweet rampart
@woeful minnow Sims tell me i should be lol
let me check again, it told me to do exsang/ds a couple weeks ago
lilac sparrow
anyone knows how can I run 150sec fight in Raidbot?
woeful minnow
if that's true I'm very surprised, but it's possible, maybe it's because you have very limited gear choice
sweet rampart
47% haste might just be enough to edge it out over TB? I dunno
grizzled mist
for the Exsang rotation; the 4th Exsang that lines up with Vendetta and Vanish. do you Vendetta & Exsang together, then Vanish-Garrote after the Garrote falls off?
arctic walrus
you save 4th exsang for both cds
you hold vendetta and vanish and from that point they'll be synced together
sweet rampart
you should vanish > Garotte > rup > garotte, when your CDs line up, you want to have those garrotes come from stealth.
grizzled mist
so do you Vendetta > Vanish > Garrote > Exsang?
fleet anchor
Worth noting that it's generally only worth delaying Exsang by a very minimal amount if it won't result in you losing a cast. Otherwise it's pretty easy to generate a lot less damage by syncing.
sweet rampart
yeah, basically i do the opener, just starting from vanish > garotte > rup > garotte > mut to 5 or 6 pts and rup, then exsang.
Vendetta before the vanish
fleet anchor
Exsang isn't a damage amp and the only real gains from syncing is the Vendetta buff on the extra non-empowered ticks at the end of your Vendetta. So essentially you gain 20% on the extra regular ticks. But obviously that isn't worth losing a full set of extra ticks from a use later in the fight.
Exsang itself is a somewhat unintuitive cooldown
Syncing is better if the timing is favorable though
loud brook
isnt the whole point of exsang to get more ticks of dots over the course of a fight?
fleet anchor
Yes
outer moon
For visions, do you run vers/pvp style for extra survival, or pretty much just the normal raid/dung setup?
loud brook
I throw on my ss/ eb gear, put on leeching poison, and put on a td 2
waxen socket
Was playing the bleed build for the first time yday and ran into a question: sometimes my rupture has another 23 seconds and exsang came off cd. The guide states to never delay exsang and not to use it below 25 sec ruptures. Do u simply spend the 6 cps for a big rupture and using exsang then?
That’s what I did last night. Just felt a bit awkward to refresh such high ruptures
fleet anchor
Yes
I mean in that particular case, the difference of using Exsang at 23 vs. 24+ is very minimal though
But maxing out the duration is generally the correct thing to do
The efficiency is less of a concern in this build with so much Energy
waxen socket
Alright cool thanks man.
Ye the pooling part ain’t really there compared to Toxic Blade
tacit wedge
Bleed build start to fall behind once a certain ilvl reached, or it's once a certain haste level/amount of expedients?
rigid eagle
hey guys, on a scale of 1 to 10, how "must have" is overwhelming power for exsang build lol
looking thru dungeon gears rn and just realized, gorak tul shoulders is legit the only piece with SS+overwhelming
keen dome
It is indeed the best piece.
rigid eagle
yup but other pieces
are looking like garbage pieces in comparison to it and raid gears
bold garden
why is crimson tempest bad?
fathom swift
it's not bad
indigo elk
hmm CLF major sims higher dps for me than bote
sullen pagoda
it sims higher for most
indigo elk
Hmm so i should be using that yea
unless its v situational like only on shad and maut
vital haven
clf has always simmed higher than blood
sullen pagoda
eh idk i personally dont like it at all i use blood everywhere
tight gate
Try experimenting with fight length in the Sim. My guild kills most heroic bosses in 3min or less now so I can't use clf a second time, that's where bote would probably perform better
Regarding crimson tempest can anyone explain to me why Raz has it skilled in his logged Maut kill?
sullen pagoda
cuz it sims more ST now than PB for most people
tight gate
Not for me but it also still Sims IS higher than stacking expedient so I guess I don't have the gear yet
Where's the turning point anyway? I'm at 40% haste unbuffed now
sullen pagoda
IS usually will sim higher but IS sims are irrelevant
im at 4.3k haste and IS still sims higher
by like 2k for high rng
fathom swift
idk if there's an exact %, but the thing with IS is that if you're simming 5 min sims you're not gonna actually get fights that long for the most part
at least the fights where IS is usually good
and expedients good every fight where IS is kinda mediocre on a lot of fights, hits random adds etc.
bitter brook
how's the shrouded suffocation build compare?
tight gate
Was planning on going full expedient anyway next time it comes up at the vendor but thanks for the replies 🙂
Last question is there any guide on how to sim correctly if I want to max out on certain bosses or do you just do patchwerk all the time? For add stuff like hive mind/vexiona or carapace I go outlaw anyway but wrathion mythic for example would be interesting because of the downtime imho
red plaza
Just see what top logs are running and try and see why. Wrathion for instance you run VOP because you can get another vendetta off before intermission.
fathom swift
you could try create raid events to approximate the fight but its not really worth the effort
balmy condor
@tight gate best way would be to look at logs and see what people are doing based on fight, simming on a per-boss basis is kinda really janky cause the fight types aren't setup and if you're running like 4 fire mages and 4 bm hunters, adds are non-existent in your raid vs someone elses who doesn't have big pumping aoe damage
loud brook
is there a way to filter logs by corruption so i can see what ppl are running under 40
vestal dagger
How much is "high" haste? I'm at 60% base and I fight to not energy cap
fallow otter
Drop lucid minor
patent topaz
glad I took off lucid for raden, was at 95% hp with the debuff spamming cancel macro
torpid mesa
is Assasinat strong over the entire duration of the extension?
in general
or its like boomy
vestal dagger
clf sims higher, but doesn't feel as good as bote with vendetta and coral stacks
and thank you stunkei. youre exactly right. maybe formless void is the way to go
indigo elk
hmm feely good or as in good in numbers from real raid environment
vestal dagger
definitely feely good, but i don't see a real difference on a boss fight
fallow otter
@loud brook i want the same thing, I just want to compare to sub 40 logs
Nps @vestal dagger
main forge
!macros
neon prism
Assasination Rogue, 475 ring. Corruption Stars or TD2?
jolly star
is my gear too shitty yet for a bleed spec?
adding 3 new expedients
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7xVBZo1W9Mnt8vNossBNNy
vs currently eqiupped
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/swFBirVDwmTvcKpNZNgRt4
patent topaz
wtb your box items
sullen pagoda
you are comparing 75 corruption to 49
sim with max corruption set so you get real picture
patent topaz
think my sim is 97k with 39 corr, only corruption is expedient 19
sullen pagoda
ye hopefully next week i replace my gushing wounds and tentacules 2
atm i sim only 99k
rigid eagle
@jolly star there's also this thing where you gotta take one honed mind for bleed build
sullen pagoda
with 59 corruption
rigid eagle
no idea why but god damn it works
patent topaz
I need to get 2nd mecha ring, at least 1 carapace dagger + chest
patent topaz
plumage instead of gcb as well probably
sullen pagoda
@rigid eagle thats because u have too much corruption res later on
jolly star
thats the point, i have 95k dps with 49 running double dose/NP vs 75 corruption bleed spec doing 96k
@rigid eagle its on an offhand
patent topaz
3x NP vop major is kinda casino
sullen pagoda
well sim 59 max corruption SS build @jolly star
rigid eagle
do you run out of pieces of put exp 3 onto?
sullen pagoda
yes
yeah also what grizzled said
the 2 weeks i tested vop major
was not really happy with it
patent topaz
bleed feels better to play
sullen pagoda
honestly if SS build didnt become a thing id just give up on rogue and go full on my warrior
rigid eagle
@jolly star dont see honed mind in the sim lol
but also, overwhelming power > heed my call for bleed right lol
sullen pagoda
OP is over anything for any build
jolly star
@rigid eagle true, it's on the 2nd sim -.-
rigid eagle
@sullen pagoda but op + like rank 5 million exped is even better xD
rigid eagle
but then all dungeon gear would be completely unviable aside from gorak tul
jolly star
i had every single shoulders from vendor but gorak tuls
rigid eagle
there's legit no dungeon gear that has SS + OP
jolly star
some like 3 times
rigid eagle
aside from gorak tul
sullen pagoda
i still dont have it either
and i get tunneled half the azerites in raid
to DE
:/
jolly star
sweet of your guildies
sullen pagoda
no one really needs anything atm we just bring random alts
xD
friend brought his warrior for first time yday on cara nzoth got weapon shoulders and helm
meme
rigid eagle
lol ive been sitting on a 465 gorak tul for like a month, and just imagining the process of upgrading it to 480 is giving me a panic attack
tribal obsidian
Try simming 4 min
jolly star
here you go - still need 2 expedients to beat VoP/NP :P
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v5VPRwh7Zuz53YNyzwfcv6
patent topaz
I saved up 20k after I got usable 480 pieces
sullen pagoda
if u have mechagon shoulders they are pretty good for first few bosses even outsim goraktul for me @rigid eagle
tribal obsidian
Compare both at 4 min
rigid eagle
@sullen pagoda is double clockwork heart viable lol
sullen pagoda
yea clockwork heart is pretty strong
rigid eagle
huh nice
sullen pagoda
only thing i dont like about it is its always proccing in exact moment
so it can proc when u in downtime also
rigid eagle
true
sullen pagoda
but on pull f.ex you are guaranteed proc in cds
rigid eagle
but at least its easier to line up with exsang on stuff like shad lol
jolly star
holy moly, you follow all procs to press exsang?
rigid eagle
no way lol
pretty impossible
but that's why knowing for sure when a proc will come feels nice
jolly star
yeah, was worried im a rly bad rogue xd
rigid eagle
LOL if ur bad then at least im bad with u
feel like there are nutjobs out there who follow stuff like vita shard procs tho
jolly star
i have a haste % WA
sullen pagoda
you dont play around procs mostly, unless you know u wont get another cast i guess u can watch for procs to delay cds
jolly star
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v7WitpgiKB41x2voB9vHqR
vs
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rQziocEGocjbz6vUVHUwhF
at 4min
rigid eagle
yea honestly i think people mostly build for procs that line up with their cds, instead of popping their cds around procs
jolly star
crimson tempest on pair with PB, cute
rigid eagle
that's how u know u made it into the big leagues lol
when ct outsims pb
im jealous af lul
sullen pagoda
ngl CT actually feels nice to play
rigid eagle
it's better than pb rng that's for sure
but will their ever be a point where haste + bleed outperforms crit in m+?
sullen pagoda
idk i dont really play assa m+ outside of workshop
rigid eagle
LUL i mean underrot is nice too
jolly star
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ddeHCN3MxQBt9FeTxheCrJ
seems like gorak isn't big of a deal for me at least 😮
tribal obsidian
I always found < 5min haste starts to pull way ahead
As well as with SS and CT is good for aoe adds
jolly star
good to know
rigid eagle
man i wonder if any dungeon helm can beat out raden helm
rigid eagle
im simming with rank 9 severe and 480 gibbering maw is still a tiny bit higher than slithering loa
cobalt pelican
clockwork heart shoulders generally beat goraks on any non 5 min long sim for me
and on 5 min it's super negligible like 0.1%
rigid eagle
but my guild isn't gonna get to mythic raden any time soon lul
sullen pagoda
problem about m+ azerites is they dont have a good 2nd trait to replace HoD
sullen pagoda
except goraktul and mechagon
rigid eagle
@sullen pagoda kinda wish there was a clockwork heart helm lul
sullen pagoda
eh its not that bad
rigid eagle
so rn, i cant get heroic carapace chest because i've been rolling for 6 weeks and still don't have it, not sure if i can get clockwork heart/blightborne shoulders, and 100% can't get a good helm
how screwed am i
rigid eagle
LOL
patent topaz
do you raid mythic?
tribal obsidian
Ive been using 465 gibbering forever
rigid eagle
heroic raden helm is getting hard outsimmed by 480 slithering loa
@patent topaz my guild can barely put together a +15 m+ team man
we have like 7 relevant players and then everyone else is 440 ilvl or some shit
jolly star
sullen pagoda
actually loa might outsim it ye
patent topaz
feels bad but also you dont really need it for anything
rigid eagle
and then i also don't get a single haste piece out of weekly cache
so that's kinda bad too
indigo elk
Not sure what's worse not getting haste piece or getting another exp piece on the same slot you alr have exp
😂
rigid eagle
LOL i haven't dropped an exp piece yet
i have a bunch of deadly momentum tho
and all my weekly cache and 5mask gears roll with crit/versa
i feel like blizzard doesnt want me to play exsang lul
sullen pagoda
i only had enough for 2x exp3 last time it was out hopefully now i get like 4-5 more
rigid eagle
hopefully i get my first 475 haste gear next tuesday lol
sullen pagoda
you can craft legs boots
rigid eagle
legit almost switched to sub cuz im getting so much crit/versa
sullen pagoda
i got some insane crafted legs and boots with like 80% of stats on it haste
cobalt pelican
everyone can get 2 clockwork
sullen pagoda
cobalt pelican
the chest is better than carapace on short sim lengths for me too
sullen pagoda
look at this beaty
rigid eagle
@sullen pagoda i mean, if i craft something like that i cant wear my alchemist stone anymore
sullen pagoda
and this one https://i.imgur.com/Li6uLlC.png 
patent topaz
I randomed clockwork chest last week and it was 1.4k increase over my ss NP chest
havent simmed cara chest against it yet
sullen pagoda
well idk how commited are you for rest of this expansion but id drop alchemy if u are still progressing
rigid eagle
i have 0 good trinkets tho
sullen pagoda
you can get coral / plumage really easy
rigid eagle
460 dice is my highest simming thing next to stone LOL
plumage comes from KR tho
that place is ass cancer
strange python
1ppm
sullen pagoda
KR is chill this week
strange python
is better boots caparaze socket
rigid eagle
@sullen pagoda real shit? fortified shadow of zul LOL
patent topaz
I should probably get plumage instead of GCB
strange python
oh wait it has a 1min icd doesnt it
patent topaz
but eh
strange python
it procs on fight start and then every minute after
sullen pagoda
eh on 15 you are gonna kill it in opener
crimson palm
i have no clue
sullen pagoda
it procs exactly every 1 minute iirc @crimson palm
rigid eagle
@sullen pagoda but then ur popping stuff like vendetta on it right
crimson palm
that'd mean it doesnt line up with vendetta though apart from opener
rigid eagle
burning cd for the last trash b4 last boss
sullen pagoda
yeah you can play vop minor and you will have vendetta for boss again
crimson palm
there're fights where i get 40-50% uptime on goraks
sullen pagoda
you dont need to comit vanish to it also
sullen pagoda
yea idk if id even use goraktul over my ilgy shoulders when i get it @crimson palm
ilgy u know what u get always
patent topaz
think I got ilgy shoulders yesterday, forgot about that
strange python
i think ilgy is like 200 simdps less than gorak for me
patent topaz
thats ss + np though, right?
strange python
not that much
sullen pagoda
its SS hod
patent topaz
is it
patent topaz
I should check my bags when I get home
strange python
the thing is tho after gambling for goraks so long its hard to not wear them
patent topaz
I know I got nzoth shoulders but I vaguely remember getting traded ilgy shoulders
strange python
margin of error
rigid eagle
LOL how does that even work
jolly star
wits/nothing personal masterrace
rigid eagle
is it just the fking ilvl
but man i guess i'll have to farm out a plumage lol
legit just got done with mechagon ring grind
yikes
true kindle
ive been checking out the exsa build guide, one question though, with corruptions does it take into account the cara daggers? or are we using the expedient corruptions only?
shrewd night
Man, I just cant wrap my head around how my sim doesnt want me to cleanse tendies and put expedient instead. It literally wants me to upgrade a singular exp2 to exp3 instead of cleansing tendies and slapping 2 more exp3 on it 
sullen pagoda
need more exp before value starts ramping 
viral valve
Is plumage really worth it over coral with full expedient?
strange python
yes
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tYMGwZptJN2K1HQv5gcV2 EE actually within margin
time to switch 
tribal obsidian
Whats the best m+ chest
coarse solar
Can I get some log help? I realise Sin is performing right at the bottom on M N'zoth but I am personally performing at the bottom of the bottom. I feel totally lost on that fight with no idea what to do as things die so quickly. Top logs use a big mix of essences and azerites, doesn't seem to be a real consensus on what to aim for. I was trying coral last night, just putting it on n'zoth and keeping rupture on him for second burn but have no idea if this is the best thing to do.
I'm sure that everything I'm doing is wrong, I just don't know how to play around that fight at all
sullen pagoda
on 3min its even ahead like 200 - 300 for me @crimson palm
crimson palm
ye because of the first overlap
@coarse solar if you use vendetta on psychus, use it on the 4 min basher you'll get 2 burns anyway at 6:00 and 8:00
getting rid of coral will help ya as well, it's just ass to use on that fight
coarse solar
I'm going down for psychus 2 and was saving Vendetta for the nzoth burn, we didn't need my CD there
crimson palm
why'd u go psychus 2 as assa
guilds usually send outlaw to deal with the small shits but assa?
coarse solar
We just needed another DPS to go down and it was between me and our warrior
patent topaz
I wasnt in any psychus phase this week and it sucks ass
coarse solar
I've done psychus 1, psychus 2 and just staying up, seen every aspect of p1 now!
I get rotated around a lot
I tried Outlaw and it feels sooo much better, but my gear isn't really there for it
patent topaz
at least I did decent boss damage but eh, feels useless on tentacles outside
crimson palm
for some reason ur still using MA
patent topaz
we went down into secret phase at 25% just a couple of weeks of gear makes a huge difference
coarse solar
@crimson palm is the consensus that we use Subterfuge now?
As I said, I feel like I'm just flailing at the moment
crimson palm
just sim it
wary seal
i have a question, are assasination rogues hard to master? (pve)
median marsh
Hello, is the M+ guide on wowhead outdated? Some things doesn't seem right
shrewd night
why'd u go psychus 2 as assa
Bruh
Youd be surprised
Im second phychus as well, outlaw never goes down
Just.. Dont ask
shrewd night
Dont. Ask. 
If I could wrap my head around that, I would
Its kinda eh, anyways. We dont need additional damage on synapses, so Im just straight chilling down there.
sullen pagoda
1 SS 
shrewd night
It doesnt want more
Although, for most killtimes Id up to 3ss, reducing the sim to 4 minutes shifted that really quick.
shrewd night
Vendor is coming up next round, so you know whats happening
tribal obsidian
Full ineffable?
sullen pagoda
tribal obsidian
tribal obsidian
My sims never want to take off IS or tendies on 5 min so i just sim 4 min for a better feel of whats better in the haste department
Its closish anyway at 5 mins
shrewd night
True, lemme slap that in there real quick
strange python
swolenar isnt very swole 
tribal obsidian
One more rotation on Friday then its back to the start I think right?
shrewd night
rancid obsidian
How good are the Ingi Googles?Worth getting?
patent topaz
decent for both assa and outlaw, i used them for quite a while
shrewd night
As long as I can keep CT away and out of error range, Im happy. I still know Ill need to swap next week 
tribal obsidian
Ive been using CT
Its nice cause i just keep the same spec on things like hivemind
shrewd night
Remember that Im a smol brain internet janitor
tribal obsidian
The fact that CT is best ST at high haste is nice
Because a lot of fights you can benefit from its AOE
I almost feel like a scummy DH
shrewd night
Is it as scummy as using hidden blades on carapace?
patent topaz
I played CT for all bosses yesterday, twas ok
winter gale
In exsang build I need no Gushing Wounds?
tribal obsidian
No
winter gale
Ok
fleet copper
with that build, you just stack haste right? haste on every piece?
distant lava
pretty much
blissful storm
!wa
strange python
!ui
vestal wren
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
Hey gang, have a trinket question. for add heavy fights (hivemind, vex, etc) would it be better to run torment in a jar over via/dragonscale? which one would i theoretically replace?
just go full st
last gyro
would you replace galecallers 470 with scale 475 ?
crimson palm
they added padding back again
strange python
my guild is strugglin a bit on vex so i'd have to help with adds
crimson palm
on hivemind
lime edge
Only ignore the mini ads obv
crimson palm
and removed it from AS
strange python
in theory though which trink would you replace for aoe stuffs
probably the dragonscale
you can sim it somewhat by setting it to patchwerk with many targets
and see how it does
gotcha, yeah i wasnt quite sure how to sim aoe situations
I'll probably use it in m+
lime edge
Humming for aoe?
strange python
torment
strange python
Nah? I just got it, haven't tried it out yet
tight gate
its pretty decent as outlaw though, i always go outlaw for cleave fights
prime void
atleast 69
frigid briar
isnt torment trinket in 2 parts on meters? usually like 2% and 3% of your damage
tribal obsidian
Yes
scarlet sequoia
just a heads up here
at least for myself, 1 gw on 485 item (daggers or boots ofc) seems to be better than a tier 2 expedient
lime edge
Pog
crimson palm
how big of a diff raz?
crimson palm
that's within margin tho
scarlet sequoia
no
lime edge
Does haste affect gushing in any way?
scarlet sequoia
yes its a hasted proc
indigo elk
more procs
This effect has a 4 (+ Haste) RPPM trigger that applies a 7 second debuff that deals Shadow damage to your target every second (this can Crit, but does not speed up with Haste). This can refresh, but the damage does not carry over if that happens. The damage this deals scales with the Item Level of the piece affected.
lime edge
What's the uptime? 99%?
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fudew3M1hktYEkSu9vS6VV still seems to sim worse for me, might be a special case with your gear
warm parcel
it obviously beats haste amps if your gear has 0 haste
sullen pagoda
he also said 485 piece
crimson palm
i've haste on all but 1 piece so it's not that
sullen pagoda
gw scales with ilvl
crimson palm
aye dagger is 485
warm parcel
all but one piece is still different than having 5k haste
scarlet sequoia
thats not what weak said
scarlet sequoia
idk as i said it was just for my gear
warm parcel
haste is all about going all in
scarlet sequoia
but worth simming
warm parcel
it typically beats out all other combos at the end
mortal umbra
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fK28162aTLEUCJbMbic5XW
Guessing i dont want to listen to it and still keep nothing personal?
strange python
why wouldnt u?
mortal umbra
meant what ive heard is that i should always have 1 nothing personal, or its no longer required?
strange python
It's not required no
mortal umbra
ah then i'll swap ofc 🙂
strange python
you want to swap to haste amps when they come to MOTHER aswell
you got perfect rings
glad compass
lilac anchor
Why are ppl linking sims at such high corruption? Is it viable to actually play like that?
cobalt pelican
generally the difference on all profiles i've checked between gw and expedient is negligible enough that if you want to use the items for other content gw is worth it, expedient gains a slightly bigger (still negligible) gap as you add targets though
people generally link sims at that high corruption to plan into the future
mortal umbra
@lilac anchor i believe that anything below 60 is fine
lean marten
+15 corr resist every 5 weeks so it will take a minute lol
lilac anchor
Ok cool. I've been staying below 40. I'll give 50s a go tonight.