his daggers are the 485 gushings
#assassination
high mantle
vast forum
this is 7 exp3 2 gw vs full expedient with 1 rank1 for same total corruption
high mantle
at least for my guild most fights are ~3mins
vast forum
most, if not all st fights are 3 min
even n'zoth's phase is 3 min 😄
although you don't start from stealth
lime edge
For comparing, you do 5 mins
vast forum
sure
lime edge
99% of ppl do
vast forum
that's because you don't know fight times at the start of a tier and in some tiers fight times vary
lime edge
And swimming 3 minutes gives u a higher number
frigid briar
everything is 3 min fights though
lime edge
Simming
long portal
The important thing when comparing is using the same time
vast forum
this isn't about the number tho
it's about the comparison between 2 builds
u think 5 min sims will favor gw or smt?
lime edge
It could
long portal
But 3m is probably more practical overall, for this tier
lime edge
What's the dps peak for sin
cobalt pelican
seems pretty in line with my own character, swapping to 485 boots+dagger gw tomorrow is -~400ish
but the loss is prolly worth it for me just for versatility for other content
astral tiger
When we start to get into high expedient/SS builds, is it still Overwhelming > Unstable > Elemental, or does it change?
long portal
That is still true for me bunny, but i only have exped 14
astral tiger
Without trying to squeeze last drops of DPS, would it be fine to just assume that order until further notice?
cobalt pelican
probably, yes
astral tiger
Alrighty, ty
fervent mauve
trying to save up pieces for expedit to hit the vendor again since i have none, should i save up haste/mastery gear?
long portal
crit is probably slightly above mastery, but it will just depend on your current gear obviously
fervent mauve
ah, wasn't sure if you could sim stat weights without having the corruption for the build
long portal
check out gear compare on raidbots. you can put it whatever piece of gear you want with the search bar. change its ilvl/corruption/socket, etc
fervent mauve
usually just vendored 465 gear from m+ but now i prob should save to swap to haste
oh sick, ty
whole cypress
this corruption cloner page is pretty good too for testing corruptions
fervent mauve
oh that's dope, thanks
civic hatch
How come the ss build recommends a rank 3 honed mind? Is it hoping for a big mastery proc during exang?
fleet whale
well the easy answer is that it just ends up simming higher. But it's probably because you already have so much haste and with garrote dealing so much damage
the mastery proc helps with that
astral tiger
Aight so I haven't used subterfuge in a while so I'm trying to figure out the opener. (with SS) Do I wanna garrote - mut - rupture - garrote? Or should I not bother with the second garrote? Also when the first garrote starts to wear off is my only priority to get my empowered garrote off?
strange python
Gar rup gar with 1 or more SS and Subt
It's explained in the wowhead Guide I think
And the exsang Guide should Cover it too
civic hatch
You 2nd garrote right before subterfuge fallls off to extend empowered garrote
If you garrote mut rupture garrote you just replaced ur empowered garrote with a normal garrote
unkempt fern
Garrote > Rup > Garrote > Ven > Toxic Blade > Envenom -- When garrote falls off, vanish and garrote twice then finish with rotation. Unless that's changed, that's the rotation I've been using
astral tiger
Oh okay I just felt like I was still able to get off a garrote while still in my sub, since I have them on different buttons, but maybe it wasn't still the empowered one?
civic hatch
You get 3 globals during subterfuge
frigid briar
@civic hatch with the uptime on honed mined you gonna get the proc on opener quite often I believe
civic hatch
Ye that makes sense then why it would sim best
summer cedar
Outside of Vendetta, should you hold Exsang until GCB is up? Or use Exsang on CD?
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/bkQdF5g.jpg stormwind opulence buff is my best friend
primal turret
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
digital timber
I can't decide if sin is better or outlaw for visions. Seems like outlaw is more forgiving for mistakes since so much of sin damage is tied to opening from stealth
astral tiger
Do I wait the 15 seconds for an exsang to line up with a galecallers, or do I just make sure it lines up with my vendetta? Or do I not take vision minor and let me get a galecallers-exsang in the middle of my vendetta?
pseudo hamlet
With SS and NP sin is very strong in visions.
digital timber
But 6 second silence and everything melting from garrote...
bleak spoke
with multiple people you go sin because you can actaully vanish
astral tiger
I always run outlaw for my visions because I pull big, then if I need for bosses I'll swap to sin
bleak spoke
like solo it's not clear which is better imo because outlaw's very safe and mobile
astral tiger
But I like outlaw for the clear
bleak spoke
but you get very many restealths and if you have friends pulling huge then echoing blades is really nuts
astral tiger
True, I think it matters how you're playing sin
bleak spoke
and the silence means the mobs gather well
astral tiger
If you play AOE sin, i think they're pretty equal, if not I think sin would pull ahead
bleak spoke
nah i think sin is just better because of titan buff
frigid briar
assass is way better for visions
bleak spoke
titan buff is bigger than vendetta for exsang
astral tiger
Yeah but I feel like the stuff doesn't last long enough
In outlaw by the time I BotE, half of the stuff is dead
astral tiger
True, mine are always solo so idk
bleak spoke
like you can easily slam like hunters and mages with titan buff sin it's like you're doing damage from the next expansion
lime edge
I like sin more than outlaw in visions
bleak spoke
And my sin gear is actually just awful
lean marten
12s rexxar is pretty satisfying as sin, how does law compare
bleak spoke
It doesn’t but it’s very safe
Cuz you breath of the dying the pigs down
When solo
Like bte to stop the void quills if necessary etc
frigid briar
its not even that, if you triple exsanguinate and spam Echo blades your literally immortal with leech and vampiric seed traits, shit just melts
bleak spoke
Yeh that too
Vampiric speed is hella underrated
But that’s kinda good with all specs
lean marten
wheres that dude with teh visions build lmao
frigid briar
what ever the heal when stuff dies trait is
bleak spoke
I think raz has a screenie of 487k dps on thrall lmao
lime edge
Cheesing rexxar is nice
bleak spoke
Imo after single resounding its best trait for key and world content
sturdy python
Would probably agree yeah
bleak spoke
You’re actually immortal
sturdy python
Early expansion I pulled a huge group of mobs and was dying, killed one or two and suddenly full HP
bleak spoke
like vamp speed healing in a 25 beats sandstorm in tol
you actually don't have to even vial
kind of ridic
civic hatch
How much does it heal?
frigid briar
also I think in good gear if you shrouded any mob that stuns the ticks kill it before it even casts
so you can outright ignore it
lean marten
or it dies mid stun, still kinda risky
bleak spoke
http://i.imgur.com/Ypmd53e.png modified by healing taken buffs and versa
i think it's more if you have a thicker neck than i do as well
near willow
just did the two lost wings+alleria using exsang build on a 5 mask, was a laugh for sure seeing all the bosses just melt
digital timber
For alleria I would def play sin because it's such a pain with all the avoiding you have to do. The st sin dps is really nice, especially if you proc gift at any point
past mauve
Thoughts plz -- would you make the SS swap (I have most the gear) if I dont have the Corruption pieces yet (I still have the Twisted App and only have 1 Exp3 - I do have the Honed Mind). Im afraid to make the SS swap without the corruptions will be a major loss right now?
bleak spoke
if you have the right stats on your gear even without expedient SS setups sim better
when i was progging i had 0 expedient pieces and it beat the tb setup by roughly 2k dps for me
digital timber
Sadly you'd need to just sim, hard to answer firmly without knowing your gear
past mauve
k - ill play with the sims and see. I missed out on the first week of Exp3 -- had plenty of coins on my alt but none on the main >.<
digital timber
Same here, managed to farm 2 expeds and that was enough to beat the double dose build for me
I'll try and farm enough for another 3-4 expeds by next week and then I'll be laughing
past mauve
ya Im pure ST - and love toxic blade - going to be weird swapping my whole spec..azerite and corruptions lol
but I have Sbeve so he goes MT and I stay ST lol
bleak spoke
yeh i really love the playstyle of tb it's really unluck
its just incredibly behind though
wet zealot
i was wondering if i hold my CLF for my 2nd vendetta ?
bleak spoke
depends on fight length
oh
you mean your first clf?
no
that's scuffed
you align the casts depending on fight length
but if you lose a cast doing so you don't
if that makes sense
wet zealot
i meant the second CLF
bleak spoke
so if you have like a 5 minute fight you hold clf for your final vendetta
and don't hold any vendettas
(obviously you hold it for vanish and exsang etc)
(but
you kind of get the picture i think)
like you everything on pull, then your next vendetta probably happens around 2:25-2:30 or so because that's when 4th exsang comes up
and then you just hold clf until the next lineup of your everything
wet zealot
okay, cheers for that 😄
bleak spoke
try to cast your clf like 5-10 seconds before you hit exsang so the buff actually gets a chance to stack etc
not quite an expert on this though there's a few people in here who can talk about that at length
@warm parcel
mint oar
warm parcel
sup
young portal
@mint oar I do Dwarven, Old Town, Trade, Mage then Aleria
steep plover
What makes exang good? Haste?
fleet anchor
@balmy condor
Dungeon slice is notoriously inaccurate for sin btw
It really isn't. 😛
balmy condor
I thought it mangles SS?
steep plover
I mean in general, like does exsang start beating out tb when ur stacking expedients and have high haste or can it be useful in builds that dont have high haste
balmy condor
something bout dungeon slice not being able to restealth cause it's one sim and the combat doesn't drop
something something
fleet anchor
It does restealth
It has never really mangled SS, and even if it did.. it still shows SS as the best, so it still does it well enough for it to perform basically better than everything else 😛
fleet anchor
My Assassination DS sim now is basically the same as my Outlaw DS sim.. so..
Numbers aside, it's obviously not doing anything catastrophically wrong 😛
There's always room for improvement in any multi-target/timing-based sim but generally most people's objections to DS aren't really about SS performance as much as it doesn't make EB look very good because of the large boss segment and percentage of smaller pulls
But I also think that's a good reason why EB isn't a great generalist approach unless you know your group is doing big pulls
DS is never meant to be perfect, it's just meant to be a tool. And it's a decent tool for looking at how setups will perform across a variety of pull sizes + boss in a composite sense.
vast forum
i would go without EB unless big aoe dugeons
fleet anchor
Yeah I agree, like if you know your running a comp where you're setting up huge pulls that's totally fine to look at
I don't think a lot of casual groups or pugs do that in most dungeons though
(Then again a lot of pug tanks like screwing up restealths too.. RIP)
fossil crow
hey all, is sin still viable in med to high mythic+, or does outlaw still take the cake with aoe?
steep obsidian
not many people even bother with sin espec in high keys tbh
the only time i reguarly see it is in the huge pull in tol dagor first room and then they zone out and respec to outlaw lol
steep obsidian
its like if you are doing any keys at a decent level the tank is gonna say "rogue lock down x" and you cant indefinitely as sin
but you kinda can as ol
fleet anchor
I mean I don't think a lot of people have really realized how decent a Haste/CT/Bleed setup for Assassination does in M+
fathom flax
Sin > all
fossil crow
but god the rng with outlaw
fleet anchor
I've tried both side-by-side recently
And honestly pull about the same damage with both specs now
fathom flax
You can kill mythic nzoth and do m+20 with the same spec and 2 different bits of a write
Azerite*
fossil crow
thats what im rocking right now for sin
fleet anchor
And that's comparing against double Mythic slappers on my Outlaw setup, so it's actually kinda sad days for Outlaw
Assassination just has scaled a lot better with the vendor
steep obsidian
sin dam is fine its more tying vanish to a dps cd and not having so many stuns which makes it less desireable
fossil crow
just cant stand the rng with outlaw and rtb
fleet anchor
Yeah Outlaw having Gouge helps a lot
steep obsidian
like doing the pull to get into the middle pylon in atal you gonna be asked to vanish there after pulling mobs away
fossil crow
hecticaddcleave but its situational
steep obsidian
there is a fair bit of shit like that
lime edge
always simmed dslice
fossil crow
ill give that a go now
fleet anchor
It has some odd aspects due to movement events and all the adds die at the same time as well
fossil crow
usually only use simc to push me in the right direction but never as a definite
fleet anchor
But yes
That's all sims in general tbh
There's no one perfect way to sim for complex situations, just tools
fossil crow
yeah
fleet anchor
But I agree Sadbod, Outlaw still has some utility advantages for sure
Vanish and Gouge usage in particular
In DPS terms they are very close now
lime edge
ive heard of simming wiht patchwerk
fleet anchor
Assassination probably has some advantages on Tyrannical weeks if you aren't doing big pulls
lime edge
but multiple bosses
fleet anchor
Some people like doing that to see what they will sustain on big pulls but I honestly only think that's relevant for testing EB setups
lime edge
sin in visions slaps
fleet anchor
Not really going to reflect what you are able to do over a full dungeon and it also undervalues SS
prime void
Most people will aim various 4/5/6/7 targ patchwerkcfights without lust. With various timings
prime void
Look at all that data and then determine their sets
However 3ss 3eb for fort / big dungeons
fleet anchor
Assassination with SS is almost perfect in terms of damage output for Visions due to the HP tuning
prime void
3ss 2eb / 1ttk or 1bbi for tyran weeks
fleet anchor
Like basically the bosses have almost perfect amounts of HP to be able to burst them down in a single Vendetta window
frigid briar
98k overall dps in +17 KR, haste builds actually pretty decent in lower trash dungeons
fleet anchor
Without running out of gas
lime edge
^
and exsang is perfect for visions
i use them on the elites in between
not all obviously
prime void
Visions I just run blood / drest/ 3ss
lime edge
but a lot of em
fleet anchor
I think at lower gear levels I much preferred Outlaw for HVs
prime void
300k plus dps and it dies
fleet anchor
But now I definitely like Assassination more
fleet anchor
Because of how easily it kills bosses
steep obsidian
3ss + xsang is kinda funny in vinisions with the 2 haste buffs stacked
lime edge
outlaw doesnt have healing
steep obsidian
i think i killed rexxar in 5 secs once
frigid briar
Yeah rexar just melts
fleet anchor
I killed Thrall last week in 19 seconds or so, which was fun
prime void
It’s actually silly how cheese the drest trinket makes visions
fleet anchor
I haven't gotten a Mythic version yet RIP
prime void
I just use my heroic one
frigid briar
whats the dresta cheese? I literally put music on and press FoK
steep obsidian
i never bothered to get one
prime void
I’ll grab some mythic kills once I can take a weekday off work
steep obsidian
i probably could have gotten a mythic one
fleet anchor
I have a Mythic Xanesh trinket that I usually use for HVs with Vita
prime void
It just does silly burst
fleet anchor
Yeah seems really good in PvP
prime void
Which is nice for vision bosses
lime edge
run galecallers
prime void
It’s strong into clothies and Leather
lime edge
frigid briar
I have 475 motor cycle and 475 dresta, both socket, if they survive the burst the motor cycle usually clutches it with breath
steep obsidian
i got the absorb trinket off of first raden kill never got the good one
prime void
Platies tank it p well
long portal
dont forget the plate warlocks and plate mages
frigid briar
I only play around 2k, people werent even running C&S against our RMP
fleet anchor
lol Infexious that is disgusting
steep obsidian
i have like 250 corruption in high ilvl minflay now keep getting it from the chest
long portal
Really? im excited for arena this week since the vers/c&s nefs
steep obsidian
i sorta want to run it in world pvp just to see peopl efall over instantly dead
fleet anchor
I really wish there was some way to target 475 dungeon trinkets
frigid briar
I usually just wait for tenticle proc, kidney and smoke, but the time they react they dead, wont happen if i go higher though I guess
prime void
I’m ready for some non dampening games
That’s for sure
And maybe I can finally kill a warrior
Woohoo
frigid briar
did anyone see pikaboos video? legit said they waited on 50% dampening, stayed in stealth for like 4 minutes out a 10 minute game
until they could run in and kill through vers
pretty dumb
lime edge
long portal
I watched those live. was nice to see someone take down c9 for once.
mage/lock is disgusting
lime edge
someone did a +23 without eb
fleet anchor
Healing in PvP is just dumb atm
long portal
just 70% damp every game
fleet anchor
Was in a BG doing my weekly last night
frigid briar
not even healing, monks mana and cacoon was dum with the vers
prime void
^
fleet anchor
Watched a Holy Paladin face tank literally 5 people beating on him
For over a minute
lol
long portal
Yeah, mage/lock are almost the only dps that can get a kill before damp
prime void
Cocoon nerfs are huge for rogues
frigid briar
chasing the shaman in wolf form around a pillar was also fun when they got full vers
that pack trait
frigid briar
I guess the pvp changes are in on US and AWC uses US patches right?
fleet anchor
Everything is so binary right now.. like with a good healer in BGs or casual arenas or whatever things just take freakin' forever.. without a healer, people die in 3-4 globals with multiple people attacking. There's gotta be something better than tuning where it's either 4 seconds or 12 minutes depending on if you have a good healer or not. 😛
long portal
they went live today for us, yes
frigid briar
nice, might actually play some rmp tommorow
frigid briar
never really seen anyone run spite on ladder just below 2k
guess thats all the people who just bang together in the middle till a pve'r wins
fleet anchor
lol yeah the Vers stacking last week on AWC was pretty funny. Watching Kidney Shot lowkey be a defensive cooldown for the target on some of the matchups was pretty hilarious.
drowsy estuary
gunshing wounds works with us?
frigid briar
not useable in stun, so you need to anticipate it
or if your healer gets cc'd you can activate
kidney just making them tankier was dumb
good thing for usm Vers and gushin will still be the go to for pvp
prime void
You wouldn’t see spite until higher infectious
It was pretty necessary for rmp once you got higher in the ladder
frigid briar
whats the strat with it? sap, poly poly, blind someone inside it then burst them in smoke bomb?
long portal
i wasnt saying people using it vs you, its just good for rmp
was better before the combat nerf, but if you got a sap 3x spite opener it basically forced trinket or you could just flat kill
now it puts the target in combat so you cant 3xsap into blind into KS to keep them in it
tough dome
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
thick wagon
so who's putting GW on their carapace daggers?
fast nacelle
only mad men
astral tiger
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kZALdTsF9KzEV2xez9ztQZ
Anyone have any idea how they might be able to improve this sim? I feel like I may be missing something, but I don't wanna run this if it sims the same as the stuff I'm used to 😛 (Also the expedients I'm not wearing are just a part of the sim, I don't actually have them yet)
oak snow
anyone remember Igneous Arts sin WA
It appears to not be available anymore but I was wondering if there are any that are this polished ( I know it's not "best" for endgame but it's what i'm after)
frigid briar
Yo team, no one logs m+ and theres a lot of variance in comps pulls yada yada. for anyone who's mainly doing 17 keys as an average. What kind of dps are you finishing with in KR and with what build?
raven locust
Last week I was pulling 90-93k in KR with 3 Garrote, 2 echo 1 Heart
frigid briar
Any logs I see people finishing with 68k (being really high) but again, no one logs m+ so kinda hard to get any kinda data from it
what affixes?
was that teaming? spatula?
raven locust
Tyrannical, Bursting and skittish
No they were quick keys so my avg dps was high
Was in 17-20s
raven locust
DPS will vary a lot, if the tank chain pulls and doesn't let you restealth your dps will plummet
frigid briar
what kind of corruption?
rapid niche
3 exp3 3exp2 1ta2
raven locust
I had 2 tentacles 2 expedient 2 crit
frigid briar
aight thanks
I just finished one with 89k, but the other dps finished on around 55k and 51k
I think packs were lasting longer than they should
raven locust
Yea if the other dps are 50k then the packs were taking too long
frigid briar
I've been pretty checked out in m+ this season, killed Nzoth then kinda been raid logging
also basically AFK'd the room where 2nd boss is, so thats probably scuffed it a bit aswell (bursting week with pugs lol)
raven locust
Bursting hasn't been too bad with the pugs I was with tbh
frigid briar
Today is our last day before reset, I think it was mainly alts n stuff. I usually avoid puggin last day of reset
raven locust
Your stats will change with the slightest gear upgrade, you'll have to sim yourself
frigid briar
thats pretty vague dude
raven locust
My stats will be different than yours and vice versa
frigid briar
Content corruption azerite ect would help people give you a bit more info
frigid briar
if you can get enough expedient it becomes our best yeah
for haste exsanguinate build
jagged axle
all the shit being readded in Shadowlands
frigid briar
peak performance is expediant in all slots and one honed mind as far as testing has gone right now
frigid briar
toxic blade aswell
strange python
no never
jagged axle
i dont even remember if Recup was good or not but I loved the funny combo point based healing
raven locust
It was BiS for almost a year lmao
jagged axle
in pvp at least
frigid briar
I think it will become BiS again if we can get kill times low enough. I'd assume it to be the highest burst trinket but Shrug
raven locust
The healing was pretty good too
jagged axle
i started playing early warlords and was obsessed with DFA Ass
raven locust
You need to give more information bro
What ilvl are the mecha rings
Do they have sockets, do the myhtics have sockets?
hoary ember
hypothetically 465
raven locust
Generally yes they are but you can just sim yourself and find out
rapid niche
My 2 Mechagon rings(3 abilities, and haste proc) sim higher than mythic rings, but it really depends on your gear.
hoary ember
i have really shit gaer
rapid niche
You'd have to sim yourself on top gear to really find out any of this information.
raven locust
Anything related to broad gear questions you will have to sim yourself
hoary ember
so comparing to mythic atm is not efficient
i just wanted to know, so i can farm them out
bceause it will be a while before i can get mythic ones
tulip crow
hoary ember
thx for the help guys
vast forum
@frigid briar problem with font with high haste is that you actually lose globals
not very valuable globals but you still lose them
frigid briar
when do you lose globals?
vast forum
whereas before expedients were a thing, font was literally a white hit damage loss
if you channel font mid-fight you lose globals
frigid briar
nahh I said short kill times, 1 minute eg
kill times already down below 2 mins for maut
vast forum
oh yea
frigid briar
1 heal bosses gonna be a thing soon,
happening a lot last few weeks
Not sure exactly how quick times will go down to but yeah
quicker the better for us
keen geode
Does anyone know if nothing personal is affected by haste?
frigid briar
heard it scales with mastery and itemlvl, not sure about haste
vast forum
it is affected by haste
balmy condor
tick rate shortened like normal
keen geode
Excellent. And I assume base tick rate is every 2 seconds?
balmy condor
yes
fleet whale
all fire mage raids are already a thing. This is getting like HFC
where raids were just all arcane mages
balmy condor
I member
fleet whale
maybe one sub rogue in the mix lol
balmy condor
20 arcane mages vs mythic whatshisface
keen geode
Thank you all.
fleet whale
the iron reaver
balmy condor
like a 28 second kill time
fleet whale
arch only lasted a few mins cause of his mythic phase
frigid briar
forget mage, soul cap tyrant velhari
balmy condor
I want soul cap back tbh
frigid briar
died in like 3 seconds
balmy condor
most fun i've had with a trinket ever
frigid briar
due to the trash outside the room
balmy condor
I also enjoyed draught in nighthold
but I guess nowadays we're stuck farming mythic ashvane
omegalul
frigid briar
lol said to my Gm last week, "wait till we going back to EP to get coral for first raid in new exp"
balmy condor
trinket design this patch is so uninspiring its not even funny
frigid briar
would not suprise me knowing blizzards shit
balmy condor
my money is on a random trinket from a world drop
frigid briar
6 feather fan
echo jay
Worth buying gushing at all? Or just wait for expedient?
frigid briar
atleast it didnt pull whole dungeon through walls
balmy condor
wait for exped
frigid briar
imagine that in TD
balmy condor
unless you're impatient
echo jay
Ok thanks
balmy condor
blizzard's always had problems with walls though
echo jay
I currently have 9 corruption so trying to fill but did t know if worth lol
balmy condor
twilight dev? sure, that'll go through walls
barrage? why not
balmy condor
only reason walls exist in this game are for line of sight
fleet whale
in terms of trinket design at least vita feels like hero when it procs
especially with expedient
balmy condor
I don't feel vita without exped
at least not huge
imo, if you have 2 gear slots specifically designed for interesting equip effects, and all I'm getting is "hm that feels marginally faster"
you failed at designing those slots appropriately
harlans, yay, stats, woo
very cool blizz
at least with plumage or medallion I get to click a button
fleet whale
they were cookie cutter but i liked the ant trinkets
and the cyclone thing was cool to look at and it had an interaction with your raid
balmy condor
yeah, those at least felt cool
spec trinkets from HFC
that's what I want
its fine if you don't like tier sets blizz
balmy condor
but at least give us a 1 set trinket maybe :D
wet ruin
exp assa actually blasting in junkyard
wet ruin
zap doing as much dmg as my garrote
lime edge
i just want to know whats max base haste
balmy condor
100% base is probably pretty difficult
lime edge
i would think impossible
scarlet sequoia
what u want
lime edge
whats ur base haste?
just curious as to what max base haste is
or rlly high gear base haste
scarlet sequoia
73.6%
scarlet sequoia
idk
balmy condor
another 27% haste on top of one of the most geared rogues at the end of the expac
yeah
you could push haste higher
but 27% is a pretty big chunk
frigid briar
Think ive got haste in all slots and on 74%
balmy condor
that's not just "oh lets get a socket and maybe a ring or 2"
dim yacht
seems like this week for severe builds, would be worth grabbing a deadly momentum 3?
dim yacht
does it not have 100% or close to uptime?
and since itd be buffed by severe, seems like itd be worth using one
vast forum
the budget on it is just generally not worth using
dim yacht
i did a quick calc, and i got 16 crit per corruption on severe 3
and 19 corruption pe rpoint on deadly 3
lost swallow
ᴴᵉʸ ᵍᵘʸˢ ʷᵒᵘˡᵈ ᵃⁿʸᵇᵒᵈʸ ᵇᵉ ᵏᶦⁿᵈ ᵉⁿᵒᵘᵍʰ ᵗᵒ ʰᶦᵗ ᵐᵉ ʷᶦᵗʰ ᵃ ᵗˡᵈʳ ᵒⁿ ᵍᵘˢʰᶦⁿᵍ ʷᵒᵘⁿᵈˢ/ᵃˢˢᵃˢˢᶦⁿᵃᵗᶦᵒⁿ ᵖˡˢ ˣ ˢᵒʳʳʸ ˢᵒʳʳʸ
vast forum
gushing wound > deadly momentum tho
lost swallow
Thx 🌸
vast forum
gushing wound is 1 of the best corruptions tho
it just slightly falls behind expedient in single target
dim yacht
you get more st and aoe both with full severe
vast forum
that doesn't mean it's shit, it means it's our top 3 corruption for ST and quite decent in aoe too
also, you're calculating baseline crit for severe
you aren't counting bote minor, unstable flames, elemental whirl, deadly navigation for severe
fleet anchor
Kinda hard to "feel" something like Vita, but that doesn't really mean it's not being effective either
Vita scales a lot of things like bleeds and AAs that you never feel or directly interact with
Most of BfA tbh 😛
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
short token
do we just ignore the stat weights sim in raidbots? i've only got 2 expedient 3's and it's saying haste is my worst stat
tawny cypress
I know for outlaw infinite stars is garbage, is it any good for sin?
short token
no
from experience, no
like maybe on 1-2 fights
xanesh
doggo
but i'd still not use it
tawny cypress
Other than that just stack which corruptions? I’ve been outlaw for months
tawny cypress
Oh cool. I’m at 45% crit and like 27% haste. That good?
Stacking both severe and strike with a T2 and T3 mind flay
short token
well you want much lower haste, as low as you can get tbh...don't worry about haste at all
well not that you want lower haste but you wanna just stack crit and vers where possible
tawny cypress
Really? I thought it was like super important as sin
short token
just make those crits as juicy as you can
wait you said outlaw
ohhhhh shit
dude my bad
assassin you want haste
tawny cypress
Nah lol I WAS outlaw now I’m sin
short token
stack expedient 3
short token
so i only have 2 expedient 3's becuase i've been outlaw for n'zoth and i'm at 35% right now
i know some people are wearing 6-7
they're probably in the high 40's
and 50's even i'd imagine
tawny cypress
Got it. Ya for whatever reason whenever I sim it always prioritizes crit for me as sin on raid bots
short token
me too! i just wrote that above, then i read the pins and it says just stack the haste
tawny cypress
Got it. So weird
delicate bone
with the expedients itll start prefering haste, seeing as how expedients increase haste from all sources. My sims were doing that same for a while since i have a lot of crit/haste gear, it really wanted teh crit until i got haste amps and proper gear
short token
however if your'e doing m+ crit is good
really sky? do you remember what % haste you were when that happened/
?
delicate bone
not specifically tbh, i know that once i got over 40% haste it started wanting me to go with the exsanguinate build
tropic linden
just gotta keep simming per upgrade/etc because diff gear = diff results, its not just a blind haste stack unless you've had godmode drops
delicate bone
but im cant remember outside of that
astral tiger
So a SS trait currently sims worse for me atm, but subterfuge still sims higher. So how do I open with subterfuge and no SS? Just like garrote mut and then rupture? and if my mut doesn't crit, then mut again for a full rupture? In that case, is my vanish even worth using offensively really? Or I guess I would just apply a semi-buffed garrote for my next vendetta?
ripe bane
are you using DD?
If youre still running DD would probably still be more worth running MA and saving vanish for when bloods up and envenom
modern cedar
Grats
dim yacht
anyone know roughly what base crit we should be looking to hit as sin in m+?
young pebble
what makes Gorak Tul's so good?
ripe bane
Blightborn infusion
Plus has DD and SS on it So perfect for both SS and DD builds
Also Overwhelming power
wise hawk
is my sim bot high af? or is there something i dont know?
ripe bane
double check if youre simming for patchwerk or dungeon slice
wise hawk
patchwork 4min
lime edge
@rancid spade what ilvl
rancid spade
480
willow vine
What’s the dif between swirling sands and blightborne
vapid scarab
@wise hawk raidbots won't sim traits if you don't select alternative
wise hawk
on the first row it was between echoing and nothing personal
vapid scarab
i can guarantee you didn't actually select nothing personal
wise hawk
wish i would of screen shot it to show i did lol
vapid scarab
just link the sim
honest iris
has anyone put gushing on 485 yet
gray crest
my stat weights are saying that haste is my worst stat. could that be cause i have 2 racing pulses atm?
honest iris
is it better or worse than expedient
wispy chasm
is there a visions of perfection major build that is decent? Heard someone say something about it and was curious
ripe bane
ive seen a few people running visions major for the SS build, looks interesting
drifting cloud
its just a worse version
but all the rogue stuff is relatively close to one another so they all work
if you live for the highroll you can play it
wispy chasm
honestly just want a change of pace lol
wispy chasm
I mean, im still running toxic blade build atm
drifting cloud
yeah, its tb build with vop major
and because youre vop major 2-3 np sims better, thats all the difference
wispy chasm
3xSS 3xNP?
drifting cloud
dont think it plays ss usually
wise hawk
why is it im seeing more people with 3 SS over 3 DD when bloodmallet is calling SS shit
ripe bane
Corruption
visual kiln
is GW still good after nerfs for assa? i have no corruptions btw since its my alt so im wondering if i should buy some this week
drifting cloud
not worth on 475
ripe bane
SS scales well with high haste, and you can pretty much corrupt all your gear to full expedient giving you crazy high haste levels @wise hawk
visual kiln
the thing is next time expedient 3 comes is in a while and i feel like gw is a good alt option for since i have 0 corruptions for outlaw too
wise hawk
ooooooooooh ok, so keep saving my echos till next tuesday when they say exp3 should be in there to buy
visual kiln
not sure if its the right call tho
ripe bane
expede 3 should be up soon
visual kiln
hmm
wise hawk
wowhead says tuesday
visual kiln
is it far ahead of GW for assa single target tho? given that u stack all GW
ripe bane
it was on the first rotation, which we should be back to next rotation
GW is still good if its on 485 pieces, but expede is slightly ahead
so you can really play whatever you want tbh
fast fog
Do 2 GW stack damage or procs?
visual kiln
dont have 485s unfortunately so just 475s
fast fog
Or can I safely run 1 to test damage?
drifting cloud
its damage
fast fog
So 2 GW when it procs > 1 GW. Thanks.
gray crest
should i run VoP for bleed build?
visual kiln
thanks
ripe bane
depends if you like that play style
wise hawk
what % haste should i be shooting for? im at 31 right now
scenic nacelle
Anyone else at 9 M Cara kills still rocking heroic dags?
plain thistle
me 🙂
scenic nacelle
High five! 
plain thistle
harsh sphinx
it's a brotherhood i no longer wish to be a part of
civic hatch
3rd kill this week, hoping for something besides gold/ap
harsh sphinx
yet another AP roll on cara 
maybe i just throw this expedient on wrathion dagger idk
north basalt
For the exang build, what would be the stat prio?
drifting cloud
haste and ilvl
all the other stats are close to one another and youd just need to sim your char for more accurate stuff
fallow otter
lacking motivation to care about doing more dps with everything on farm, im just getting corruption for m+
for raid i mean
ebon patio
@scenic nacelle Im in for that.
loud brook
what's the best way to guesstimate how much i should be doing for raden mythic?
just patchwerk 5 mins?
arctic walrus
I mean it's pretty relative to how you are doing the boss and how many orb phases you get
top logs get about 2, prog could be around 3
drifting cloud
vel you boomer
arctic walrus
mb yeah raden is 0 orb now
drifting cloud
even most prog kills of raden thesedays do 2 orb 😛
loud brook
30 fire mages op
sick owl
Mastery and Gushing Wound work together? Yes or No.
drifting cloud
even if it wasnt it wouldnt work
sick owl
Was just a spur of the moment thought.
drifting cloud
ok @arctic walrus im sorry theres some real interesting raden kills on logs
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rcnLfGtdQKqDv3WR#fight=19 russians are really next lvl
actually somehow its cleaner than my guilds 1st kill 
loud brook
i still don't know how to guesstimate my raden dmg ree
drifting cloud
theres no magic sim for raden
loud brook
lies of the jedi
drifting cloud
the 2 orb dps check isnt hard by any means, just do the mechanics
loud brook
I alternate between three different sims for general use. patchwerk 5 mins, hectic add cleave 4 mins, and 2 mins 4 bosses for general m+ use
I just don't know if there's other ways to sim to better refine for raden
drifting cloud
its literally a patchwerk fight with 2 sets of 2 adds that dont live that long
youre overcomplicating for no reason
and if you arent meeting the dps check just tunnel boss harder and let cleave classes finish off the adds
loud brook
ok
drifting cloud
with 2 orbs the boss is going to live 3:30~ or around there so you can sim patchwerk 4 min instead of 5
loud brook
k, thanks
strange python
i got a couple gushing wounds does it matter what item i put it on?
rancid bobcat
highest ilvl
rancid bobcat
hollow vault
gushing nerfs are in on raidbots now yeah?
rancid bobcat
have been for a while
rancid bobcat
surely i get cara loot tonight
rancid bobcat
surely
plain thistle
@scenic nacelle not in the club anymore
plain thistle
took me 10 tries but ok
scenic nacelle
grats bud
plain thistle
10 kills and 10 coins ofc
scenic nacelle
maybe next week will be my week
soft ridge
Do y'all run deadly poison or wound poison in PvP?
I'm new to PvP and have been running deadly but from what I'm hearing would may be better
soft ridge
My bad
deft vault
Anyone pretty good wityh macros?
raw oasis
Can you shroud the heal/kill mechanic from Raden?
astral tiger
Would anyone be willing to go though my ra-den logs and see if there are any areas i can improve on? I made a few mistakes with letting my rupture run out, but I still feel like I have room to improve https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bRBQkJKFc2PXtrjd/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=20
astral tiger
lmao fair, fair
rancid bobcat
raden is just single target
fringe palm
I know the answer is sim it, but is there a specific point at which worldvein > blood of the enemy
astral tiger
wait kaite is that a sim for me, or?
loud silo
hey guys, starting m nzoth prog this week. just wondering if anyone has any good suggestions for rouge pov kill videos
faint edge
so whats the stance on formless void? should i swap my visions for it and go blood major, breath, memory, void
vital haven
CT CAN GET PARRIED, CT CAN GET PARRIED
you swap to void when you get high enough haste @faint edge
you usually replace it with lucid minor
drifting cloud
alot more
faint edge
lol
vital haven
like 60
drifting cloud
im over 50 and its not better
faint edge
time to save up for exp 3
vital haven
its slightly better for me and im at 61%
faint edge
i gained 3k dps from switching it
vital haven
it doesnt have to be void minor btw
vital haven
for me blood minor is better
arctic walrus
@marble hemlock have you tried out the nzoth trinket for keys at all or is it just bad
faint edge
so what should i switch to focused?
raw oasis
@loud brook Just downed him tonight! no loot though 😦
loud brook
f
astral tiger
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/720121177900711946/unknown.png @rancid bobcat was this in reference to me, or somebody else? Because I simmed myself with that thinking it was about me but it was like a 2k dps loss
sweet rampart
Was that guy that guessed the corruption vendor schedule correct so far? Not guessed but math'd it out?
white wyvern
No
Friday is the last day of the first cycle though. So Tuesday we will find out if it is a fixed rotation or not.
main forge
Mythic Shad'har -> Does rogue sprint clear that speed reduction?
drifting cloud
no
fierce tulip
For M+, what are my traits looking like, Echoing Blades stacking and what else?
naive iron
after trying to improve my dps for Raid, i see all the top end rogues going 3x shroud,2(3) heart or 1 blightborne. Is anyone else using this set-up? looking for rotation guide on it.
naive iron
ah i see, thanks.
upper cradle
@balmy condor I haven't really ever done a log before but a sim i can do. I just want to be able to keep up in dps when running 15 keys. I mean i have been kick from groups for not being outlaw but thats a different matter.https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b6qfQBi17jNS8kbS9hUeU2
twilit hollow
what uptime does the APL sim formless void minor at?
balmy condor
thats your raid gear?
you're super behind on your cloak, which means not a lot of corruptions
and you're running 0eb
so if that's your m+ set
your aoe is gonna be kinda bad
cleave is probably okay cause SS can carry you to some extent
but its just undergeared
no idea if you're playing wrong cause no logs
but gear wise, its just behind
verbal sparrow
Since there is just cap 6 corr. resistance per week there isn't a chance to catch up other right ?
upper cradle
I do have some EB pieces they are just 450 ilvl
balmy condor
yeah blizz just being blizz and timegating catchups
dim yacht
how much crit should i aim for before i start going for strikethrough over severe?
balmy condor
usually 2-3 severe's
dim yacht
yeah, but like crit % wise
balmy condor
doesn't make sense to think like that
dim yacht
because wont it depend on how many sockets, pieces with crit etc
balmy condor
there's no breakpoint
upper cradle
I do have another severe 3 but id loss mind flay 3
dim yacht
i thought the idea was to go for 100% crit with procs
balmy condor
yeah........no.......
dim yacht
then whats a better number to aim for?
arctic walrus
like 40% is a pretty good basis to go off of
balmy condor
yeah
upper cradle
@balmy condor
dim yacht
like 40% after taking into account severe?
arctic walrus
nah it goes up with crit gear
dim yacht
thank you
dim yacht
65 afk
balmy condor
yeah thats a ton imo
balmy condor
@upper cradle again, that doesn't tell me much, the damage looks pretty normal ratio wise
fok should be higher
but no eb
so
probably fine ™️
upper cradle
im at 35% right now with one severe 3 i have another one in my bag. Should I remove mind flay for it?
upper cradle
12 cast of bofe
upper cradle
yikes ya your right it only had 6% uptime
woeful minnow
if I had to guess you probably sit on your CDs too much and could get a lot more by using them more liberally but that kinda comes with knowing routes/communicating with your tank and stuff
balmy condor
uptime is kinda an awful metric to look at
woeful minnow
other than that what he said, you gear is kinda scuffed for m+
upper cradle
Ill see what i can do and look up how to log
woeful minnow
I don't think anyone looks at m+ logs, sounds like a nightmare
upper cradle
i can try and run a raid lol. My main is a tank i usually try and avoid rogues in my raids lol
fleet anchor
@dim yacht General results seems to be to keep Severes and Strikethroughs pretty close together, with Strikethrough maybe one below Severe.
balmy condor
even on lower crit values?
fleet anchor
I mean they are both relative and multiply each other
The ratio is likely pretty much always the same regardless of the amount of crit
balmy condor
yeah but I would've guessed that less crit means lower value strikethrough
so severe first then strikethrough
but I guess it doesn't make that much difference
u rite
fleet anchor
I would ladder them Severe first yes
balmy condor
probably minor
fleet anchor
They are offset enough weeks on the vendor too that it at least allows some saving
balmy condor
don't remind me 
my poor echoes
exped and severe and strikethrough
can only handle so much
fleet anchor
I'm still waiting for Strikethrough to come back because I actually legit forgot to pick it up for my Outlaw set and want to smash myself with the keyboard
lol
Got my Severes the other day but now I'm kinda sad
At least hopefully next week will be Expedient returns and I can finish up my Raz Set
balmy condor
inb4 blizz changes the vendors to prevent us from predicting
expedient just never comes back
main forge
They remove the vendor next week
Well everyone got their corruptions right? back to RNG
last gyro
Rip expedient
main forge
Ugh, just frustrated from tonight. Mythic Shad'har and couldn't get a kill as we didn't bring a pally. Not that I was reponsible for the wipe, its just annoying not to have the rogue utility for fights that got shoved into the PvP talent tree.
idle nova
0 pally/monk/hunters? 😛
balmy condor
you mean maneuverability?
main forge
yeah
but there is also smokebomb(bringing ranged casters into melee), the 90% slow...
its not much but I feel like we don't have as much
balmy condor
those wouldn't help much in pve
main forge
agreed. niche uses, none for the current tier
fleet anchor
It does really feel strange to me for Sprint to basically do nothing a lot of times
Not sure it really makes "class fantasy" sense that Vanish is better at removing slows than Sprint lol
Also so incongruent with the fact that leaps for so many specs just flat remove all movement-impairing effects..
main forge
Honestly, I think they just didn't have time to think of new pvp talents for rogues.
fleet anchor
My Hunter is just like choo choo PvE snares don't exist
main forge
Vanish/Cloak > sprint at slows
I remember the debate when they put it on a 60s cooldown
Instead of 2-3 minutes? Crying about rogue mobility. before shadowstep was with assassination
warlock has two or three movement things right? gateway and the teleport? and the health drain? mage blink. Druid just shifts and it is removed. Is it me that other classes, besides maybe death knights, are more mobile?
balmy condor
wod was fun
in 5.1 is was all movement impairing effects
and immunity as well
I member
fleet anchor
Assassination is in an odd place with mobility. Shadowstep is really good when it works but often doesn't
And Vanish can't be used due to it being a DPS cooldown
balmy condor
shadowstepping to allies out of mechanics is kinda janky too imo
like its super good for staying on enemies
but for getting out of stuff like a defensive blink
fleet anchor
Outlaw mobility is honestly so much better because of Vanish being available and Grappling Hook just being more flexible
balmy condor
yeah
I feel like shadow teleport thing like a blink for sub would be a decent idea
its basically grappling hook rebranded
fleet anchor
I'm not tied to one specific spec or another, although I will say it's moderately frustrating that the "best" raiding spec damage wise is the one with the worst mobility haha
But a lot of that really comes down to offensive Vanish
balmy condor
it started off as an interesting idea
but there was still a "do I use this offensively or defensively" kinda thing
now we just have an entire row of talents dedicated to it, and that decision making isn't there anymore
cobalt pelican
i generally prefer shadowstep to grapple but like
there's too many instances where bosses backs aren't
usable spots
or don't exist
fleet anchor
Outlaw solved it by not having the talents
Sub solved it by giving you Stealth-like all the time so Vanish itself is not important
Asn got stuck with having to use real Vanish for a whole row 😦
coarse narwhal
For eb 3 ss 3 m+ do you want severe/strike or full severe?
fleet anchor
Severe/Strike
coarse narwhal
alrighty can i pretty much transfer my outlaw set or is versa not the best?>
fleet anchor
Should be generally fine
Assassination honestly is pretty flexible with stats, that's one of the nice things
balmy condor
as long as you have 7 gear sets
fleet anchor
Outlaw is a bit less flexible about stats because Mastery is garbage tier 😦
balmy condor
marble hemlock
Never had a chance to try @arctic walrus , but I doubt it's worth
main forge
My stats weights for assasination flux between each new piece of gear
marble hemlock
Since the crit on use is kinda pointless during CDs with bote, and timing the versa means you waste a lot of uptime on it
arctic walrus
ah shame i'll just sit on it then
fluid pagoda
are ppl happy with how sin plays?
main forge
The rotation could be a tad more interesting.
cobalt pelican
post-expedient it's enjoyable but could be better
fleet anchor
I like Expedient setup if only that compared to proc hell it's good
But I don't think this is really the best iteration of Assassination we've had 😦
I'm happy enough with Rogues in general right now but we are definitely playing second fiddle to a lot of much stronger specs right now
balmy condor
bring back wod sub
fleet anchor
I'm blown away at the DPS my BM Hunter alt can bring despite me putting relatively little effort into the character compared to my Rogue
But at least Assassination has been helped into a little better of a place by the vendor
Can't really say the same for Outlaw and Sub, which largely gained nothing
And actually went backwards due to the GW nerf
Sub actually went from just slightly below Assassination (even though nobody was playing it, it was competitive) to way below now..
And really gained nothing at all from the vendor
main forge
Would be nice if.... there was a trait that increased duration on garrote or rupture by a small chance. Or caused them to hit harder.
or allowed us to press stealth in combat every say... 30 seconds and use one stealthy ability.
fleet anchor
lol didn't we already have that?
With random Rupture buff thingy from the artifact
Forget what the buff name was called
cobalt pelican
i generally just feel like we're missing
1 button
but idk what button it would be
arctic walrus
how many of us started alting a hunter
fluid pagoda
@fleet anchor I always wanted to play a hunter, but was always scared off by claims it was painfully easy
balmy condor
and it was awful
cobalt pelican
i'd also be alot happier if 1 application of ss reduced vanish cd by 20 seconds :)
main forge
Assassination has come a long way... Useless in BC. To wrath and cata having an easy as hell rotation(even mists? when did we lose the refresh on SnD)
cobalt pelican
not sure why that was never considered as a basic qol part of the trait
guess it was too opop for a long time anyway
fleet anchor
The other post-Legion loose end that never got tied up is that although it was ott with trait stacking until the nerf
A lot of FoK's damage in general the whole Legion xpac was propped up by Poison Knives trait passive ranks
gritty spoke
@cobalt pelican kingsbane should've been kept as the legion carryover instead of toxic blade
fleet anchor
And when it was removed FoK turned into one of the weakest AoE abilities in the known universe lol
gritty spoke
and make it work on bleeds
gaunt aspen
!corruption
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Corruption overview: https://cutt.ly/ZyDuQsl
main forge
Well its strong... but you have to spend azerite traits on it to make it strong for 5 seconds of dps LOL
fleet anchor
Like I'm not really sure there is any AoE button that hits as little as FoK does lol
fleet anchor
Like FoK literally only hits for like...