Hi guys
#assassination
lost musk
Im approacing to build my first alt
If i will play only the assassination in every content for to be confidential with the class and spec, i can do it?
The assa can go easily in m+ too?
cobalt pelican
yes
lost musk
I have find 3 talent build to focus for playing rogue assa on wowhead, there is a low item level build or i can follow whatever i want?
vast forum
sim talent options on raidbots to see what's best for your gear
echo jay
what haste levels you guys looking at to try and start the expedient/exsang build?
toxic remnant
can someone help me sim my character?
https://pastebin.com/eWUtF6ye here is my /simc data
i forgot to fix my essences and talents so if there is something that needs to change, id love all the help i could get
toxic remnant
im working on blood of the enemy and im like 2 days from r3 lucid
echo jay
that will help a lot
lean charm
how many % haste is necessary for work exsanguinate build?
fleet whale
i don't think there is a magic number for it, it's simply when you start to sim higher for exsang
indigo mulch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
analog phoenix
how do you open with exsang build with an add? e.g. vexiona
last crown
holy shit finally got bote3. what fights is it actually worth using over clf? hivemind and wrath?
balmy condor
Bote is better anytime you have adds
echo jay
bote better on pretty much everything
royal lantern
@echo jay you....use CLF for full st in the exsang build at this point
echo jay
well yea, if you go exsang build
balmy condor
Not realistically though
Blood keeps up fairly well unless you’re precasting CLF
And in raids, even with 2 targets, CLF loses
So idk
It’s good for that one pure single target
But nowhere else
echo jay
^^
indigo mulch
Do i evi/rup on 4 cp with DS?
balmy condor
5
indigo mulch
ait
Do i try to get a 6cp rup just before exsang?
or 5+?
or is it still just =>25?
indigo mulch
So even if i'm at 5cp i'll still do another muti?
balmy condor
No
jovial haven
You could garrote for 6th
balmy condor
You do a garrote->rup
jovial haven
Assuming it’s off cool down
balmy condor
It should be if you’re planning ahead
indigo mulch
ye
last crown
so when do i use bote then? before or after vend? and do i delay bote for vend?
last crown
otherwise use when adds are up?
indigo mulch
Dosent bote come line up at your 3th vendetta?
last crown
i feel like on the type of fight youd delay bote for vend you might just wanna be running clf
balmy condor
Ye I mean you could just check logs
And see where people are casting it
Fight by fight
last crown
sim still has clf simming above bote even on hectic add cleave or on 2 boss
balmy condor
That’s kinda whack
I mean probably still strong
Also idk how the sim handles bote in hectic
last crown
even on 2boss hectic cleave its saying clf, but swaps in bote minor over iris
balmy condor
Ye idk
Id have to check the apl if it’s just loosey goosey throwing out bote without adds
Cause idk off the top of my head
What I do know, is that for raids, people run bote on most of the fights
Because it’s just better
last crown
possible its just people not adapting with haste build?
sterile lark
can prob clf->stealth->prepot
scarlet sequoia
clf prepull is not the smartest move
unless they just so happen to have fixed it
summer cedar
Should you refresh your dots (in the pandemic window) during Exsang? Or is that a no no?
strange python
exsang dots should always run out
summer cedar
Thanks. And should you cast bote before or after Exsang. I've seen both in sims
strange python
after
balmy condor
@last crown I would say that in 90% of situations, it’s just not good enough /shrug
If you do a short window with more than 3 mobs
As if you were in an aoe situation
Bote wins EASILY
fleet whale
CLF vs BoTE is starting to get like BoTE vs Iris in the outlaw channel lol
fleet whale
but honestly blood is just easier to use
balmy condor
And stop it
fleet whale
and it's easy to get good results, sims shouldn't be taken as gospel
strange python
Jokes on you, until expedient 3 is Back on the menu and I can swap to exsang, Breath is still by far my best Essence
feral creek
Who will prefer a 3min cd over a 1,5min one?
cobalt pelican
just make realistic non-feels based decisions based on fight type, a mix of log review, and sim information
balmy condor
^
normal olive
If you use BotE and the Drest trinket at the same time, does the drest trinket get the benefit of the BotE debuff?
cobalt pelican
yes
normal olive
great thanks
hushed maple
cobalt pelican
doubt it
latent field
Best estimate for next exp III vendor still the 26th?
cobalt pelican
i'm not sure it even comes down to utility at this point but more like
the meta is set
a lot of people play outlaw in every dungeon on every key type even when they don't press a single outlaw button the entire time
so i don't think any specific spec power increases will change that
strange python
4 more fucking resets without expedient? Fuck me sideways, I thought it was 16th or so
strange python
What is that estimation based on, purely amount of corruptions remaining?
lilac anchor
Thought 17th for EU
cobalt pelican
but if it's not linear (the stupid spreadsheet being passed around)
then it's the 24th
lilac anchor
Frickin RNG
strange python
Which spreadsheet u talking about?
cobalt pelican
i'm planning for it to be a linear rotation, and if it's not then i can adjust from there but i've seen nothing that the spreadsheet is based on that makes me believe it to be real
strange python
And it better be sooner ): I Just wanna have my exsang setup
cobalt pelican
all 8 cycles will have been seen by next friday, and a week tomorrow we'll know whether expedient 3 is back or not
latent field
Having the vendor rotate boggles my mind, really got fd by not having any time to farm exp 3
idle nova
ye, and also using an existing currency that most people stopped receiving / cared about farming. my rogue is my alt and even then i just said why not just buy all the rank 3s i can just to have them since there's no other use.
strange python
During the time exp3 was up I was recuperating from a freshly dislocated shoulder. Just couldnt fucking play
If thats gonna fuck me over for 4 more weeks, then I might just dislocate it again when I Slam my desk in anger
quartz willow
yo guys is it bad to go full crit on assa rogue for raids? i spend all the echoes for m+ outlaw build (strikethrough+severe) but we are progressing mythic raid right now and i want to transition into assa rogue slowly
cobalt pelican
it's perfectly functional
not optimal but it's not like you're playing ineffable truth on all your gear
you can sim using the contaminant thing to see what kinda losses you're looking at but i'd guess 4-5% with non-optimized gear? maybe
quartz willow
ok thanks i will try simming a bit
i sim around 86k patchwork but the haste build with garrote probably is the way to go later on when i have the echoes
frank grove
Is there such a thing as a BiS gear list for m+? Cause i only found raiding bis..
rancid bobcat
no one has made one
frigid briar
BiS for m+ would be difficult due to how affixes and dungeons differ
tropic ocean
M+ bis will be pretty hard
But 3 ss 2 hod 1bbi for low trash
3ss 3eb severe/strikethrough stack for high trash
Works very well
arctic walrus
2 bbi 
frank grove
im checking top key people on rio and they all have a very similar build, i guess i can follow that
tropic ocean
You pretty much alternate depending on key and affix
mostly for dungeons like workshop/kingsrest/temple
scarlet swift
Can someone help me understand vanish usage with SS build, is it just CD or should I be holding always for vendetta event tho vend is usually off sooner because of VOP
scarlet swift
Just noticed that, sorry
cobalt pelican
member the
scarlet swift
Disregard 😊
arctic walrus
simpler times
cobalt pelican
aiming for the stars
arctic walrus
the infinite stars
heavy coral
is it fine to play triple ss build with only 24% haste and no experdits ?
idle nova
Sim it vs your other options
naive tangle
Heya Guys, im wondering if anyone can help me. Im currently new to WoW and ive been playing an assa rogue, however my DPS at the moment, seems to be dead poor, im averaging like 20k in mythics. Could anyone recommend anything to help? Heres my stats
idle nova
a link to your character / logs would be much more helpful
naive tangle
my apologies, but how would i do that
rancid bobcat
post your armory link
civic hatch
When playing deeper strat is it ever worth using a finisher at 4cp or always 5-6?
heady drum
on 4cp you shoulr muti
civic hatch
What about in aoe situations? When I’m spamming fok to build cp and wanna rupture/env something
heady drum
i personally never use a finishedr on 4 with DS
ebon patio
Hello everyone! I came back to the game like a month ago. And been grinding stuff since then 
. Lately I've been looking at warcraft logs and seen the 3X shrouded Exha build. Which looks cool since it's different to what I'm used to, at least a little bit. So today I was simming myself and the diff between a toxic blade build and exha is just like 1k. So, what is your experience with that build? Worth trying? Also.. I'm currently running 2xTwisted and 1 Exp 2 and 2 Exp 1. (Since I came back a lil ago I still don't have like the best of best)
This is my toon and all the gear I currently have (Raidbots string). Any tip or pointer would be awesome. Thanks in advance
loud light
@naive tangle you've got a whole lot of basic setup stuff that looks pretty wrong- essence choices are confusing, you've got empty sockets/unenchanted gear, and then if you're concerned about m+ then the azerite pieces are not that great. I'd start with reading through https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide to try to get up to speed
lone junco
@civic hatch dont mut in cleave situations, esp when you are running EB. but at 4cp, if you have up plenty of bleeds just fok again. remember Rupture doesnt scale damage value with cps, just duration. so its not the end of the world to have a 4cp rupture on a trash pack.
crimson palm
When playing deeper strat is it ever worth using a finisher at 4cp or always 5-6?
@civic hatch rup and ct only
wooden osprey
Hello! Just returned after 6 months away. 2nd day. I'm hearing conflicting things about stats for Sin. What are our true stat priorities now? What should I be focusing on?
Right now my mastery is highest, but the armory isn't updated yet.
warm parcel
balmy condor
this is the conflicting
the best part is, this is a random char, and your char will look different as well
wooden osprey
Hmm thanks. Where's that from? Only thing I did before was use raidbots with simcraft.
balmy condor
stat plotting from simcraft
raidbots doesn't support it because 99% of time it'll just spit out gibberish nonsense that makes no difference in your gearing decisions or gameplay
and thats the point
if that character gains 50 stat, crit is the strongest, but then if it gains 100, crit is the weakest
stat weights change near constantly, this happens to be a bit extreme of an example
inner zephyr
Hey could anyone help me out with corruptions for M+ im trying to figure out what i should remove from my gear and add is there any corruptions in trader that i should buy before it changes?
balmy condor
infinite stars gotta go
crimson palm
apl uses ct at 5+
@wet ruin 4 and 5 is neutral
wet ruin
alright
inner zephyr
@balmy condor so i should remove Infinite stars and replace with what?
balmy condor
for m+ specifically, severe
and probably a strikethrough
most high sin rogues are running 3ish severe and then strikethroughs
there's the odd deadly momentum or honed mind in there sometimes
but mostly its just severe and strikethrough
inner zephyr
should i pick up a R1 strikethrough from the vendor today and hope it gets higher ones tomorrow?
inner zephyr
okay so just wait for the rank 3's to drop and switch it all?
balmy condor
its just not a lot of value and you have to overwrite it eventually anyway
ye
I personally would cleanse the IS and run literally anything else
but that's cause I'm a stark hater of IS
inner zephyr
okay i appreciate the help and ill switch the IS gear since it helps me with dps in raid as well ill just use different item for now
balmy condor
IS helps you on 2, maybe 3 fights
but if it makes you happy, use a different piece yeah
its on a 470 mast/vers belt with no socket
inner zephyr
its just for now since i just returned recently so i dont have much gear with other corruptions
balmy condor
so its pretty easily replaced imo
inner zephyr
What should i be focusing for stats? Crit haste?
balmy condor
hard haste stacking with expeds for raids
crit stacking for m+
and for pvp idk, they're losing their minds over there with the vers nerfs
inner zephyr
yeah i dont plan on pvp
mostly just M+ and some raiding so ill be focusing on crit stuff
balmy condor
yeah crit would work fine for raiding too
ideally you'd have 2 sets, but if you don't care about being a couple % behind an optimal second set
you could probably just run the crit set in raids and do fine
second set of azerite is kinda big tho
inner zephyr
okay sounds good and raiding for me is just heroic we dont run mythic so i should be good
balmy condor
ye, ez pz
raven pier
so this may sound stupid but im new to assassination and im trying to learn the opener for now... icy veins says to do garrote rupture garrote and i know its to get the pandemic window for a longer duration, but garrote is 6s cooldown, am i just waiting or how do i garrote so fast
raven pier
oh man... thanks a lot
raven pier
MA? im at 460 rn, went from outlaw to assa and im mainly looking for hc raids for now
raven pier
oh yea the other talent
balmy condor
its a sim question, but just something to keep in mind
peak jungle
I know i've got to change them, i'm just being lazy, but I wanted to share my pain surrounding mind flays. Just did two 5-minute pulls of Mythic N'zoth. Pull one, my tendies did 26.7 percent of my damage, pull two they did 0.9 percent.
fleet whale
that's why i don't like tendies
peak jungle
They're great when they proc.. but.. lol
fleet whale
there was a time i had IS 2 and Mind Flay 2 at the same time, and honestly IS damage was far more reliable
peak jungle
I could imagine, and I actually have a r3 IS but for n'zoth I don't think it would be viable here
fleet whale
it could be alrighht if you have the budget for it since it is a really long fight, but if you have a bunch of expedient that's probably a better option
like n'zoth himself is bound to get stacks just cause how long the fight is lol
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
hearty tapir
!stats
glacial jasper
There was chatter in here yesterday or day before about VoP major in use for a build, what y’all feelly craft out on that
balmy condor
was an old build that was pretty good
still pretty good
but its awful outside of single target
and its mega rng
3/7 would not suggest
long portal
Not getting vision procs gives you something else to complain about, though :)
balmy condor
also a good excuse for bad damage
deft vault
Are mechagon ring BiS For exsanguinate buld?
balmy condor
BiS regardless of build
balmy condor
I mean
that was the idea
and it was okay
but sometimes you get 80% vendetta and sometimes you get 5% vendetta
so it kinda succ
chilly marsh
i wnat to do it only to stay MA killign people invisible lol
stay stealth following someone only doing vendeta dot dmg LOL
balmy condor
I'm pretty sure the build doesn't work great in pvp
chilly marsh
would still be fun
balmy condor
go for it
chilly marsh
killing peopel and theydotn know who is doing it lol
nah saving for exp 3
maybe later xpack to troll
pallid peak
Just double checking if I got this right, if I set the top gear corruption slider to 100 purify all my corruption and set contaminants to add to 9 it will sim and output the BiS corruptions for me at around max cloak resistance right?
balmy condor
uhhhhhhhhhhhh
yeah kind of
you'll probably get similar to the pinned corruptions though
people already did that math
pallid peak
Yeah I did ask kojiyama before what he thought would be our ending corruptions and he mentioned Probably VR or RP and Raz simmed his profile and got honed mind I think.
toxic remnant
anyone know if its possible to calculate the amount of mastery i'd get if I were to put 4 masterful 3 pieces onto my gear without actually putting 4 masterful 3 pieces on my gear
glacial jasper
Devil’s advocate, the Simms prolly are not set up to fully utilize odd builds
Like 3 NP and full IF
toxic remnant
is there such thing as a mastery build focusing on bleed and poison dmg or would that just be trash
balmy condor
mastery is trash
disclaimer, mastery itself isn't trash, but mastery focused builds are trash
cobalt pelican
there's not really anything to add for a np if build
deft vault
FOr the exsanguinate build you want haste then what?
cobalt pelican
vendetta is fire on cd, tb at least has vendetta conditions already and you still wouldn't hold exsang at all
deft vault
Crit vers or mastery?
balmy condor
haste crit mainly
cobalt pelican
some of all of them
toxic remnant
so, say i had 6 masterful 3s, theres no build that would be decent
balmy condor
yeah
toxic remnant
pull say, 70k dps
cobalt pelican
high end gear sets tend to lean into mastery m ore than others for some reason but i'm not really sure why or if that holds for all gear or just the people who have that gear currently
balmy condor
mastery scaling bleeds + big haste scaling
cobalt pelican
you can hit 70k dps with any build under the sun if your base gear is good enough
70k is like
balmy condor
seems good
cobalt pelican
entry level gear with random corruption
balmy condor
just purify it
do more damage cause you don't need to worry about corruption effects
lul
upper cradle
im having a hard time doing decent damage without focusing iris. I just got R3 BotE and it feels like my damage got worst
strange python
2738*77/1680=125.49
Doubt it scales even though
So your math is fucked either way
lavish brook
pikaboo rocks like 142% mastery in sub
balmy condor
@upper cradle that could be many issues, but its hard to tell without knowing what content you're doing (keys? high keys? low keys? small packs? large packs? raids?) and if you're timing it properly, what your gear is like, etc etc etc. If you have logs, sims, that would help a ton
rancid bobcat
Sub has a higher mastery ratio
torpid mesa
e
prime void
J
balmy condor
sin didn't change into sl
torpid mesa
literraly nothing ?
balmy condor
nothing game changing, no
our aoe gonna suck without SS/EB and there's no fix for it yet
but we have the same basic abilites we do now and the rotation works the same way
but we're still in alpha
so who knows
they just added rogue to torghast like last week
considerign bote 3 being the strongest essence we have
yes
such is sin rogue
should've played a demon hunter
indigo mulch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sQNDUkdXJKbQL4XvYvqqjW DS is a dps increase instead of vigor? O:
indigo mulch
Yeah
balmy condor
bigger rupture, and you're not energy capping with exsang
balmy condor
it gives % increased finishers
cobalt pelican
vigor is a crutch for low energy income, both expedient and exsanguinate increase energy income
balmy condor
^
balmy condor
pvp nerd
balmy condor
you have bote3
indigo mulch
yes?
balmy condor
so clearly that's false
indigo mulch
?
balmy condor
then how would you describe your pve :P
indigo mulch
I started playing.. uhh 2 months ago? Very casually.
drifting cloud
and if he doest do a high enough key you dont get any mats at all
balmy condor
iris is timegated but 1 key a week is much much MUCH less effort than farming bote 3
¯_(ツ)_/¯
indigo mulch
Honestly don't even know how to get iris rank 3
balmy condor
yeah ez
indigo mulch
I've done a 15 this week that should be enough
balmy condor
yep that'll do it
indigo mulch
Besides doing casual BG's is very diffrent from doing somethting that requires a group
when you have no rio score
You don't really get high keys
indigo mulch
I mean i know how to play the game, but coming back from not playing since uldir. The game changed quite a lot. I leveled a bunch of alts aswell trying to figure out what i wanted to play.
solar flicker
lol i also came back a month and a half ago since uldir
catch up has been pretty cancer
indigo mulch
Sure has. Those essence is a pain to farm. Really.
cobalt pelican
i think if i looked at 8.3 as someone who hadn't played from 8.1 i'd just nope the fuck out and come back in l ike 4 months
indigo mulch
I mean if you don't really raid super high endgame and just play casualy its quite enjoyable. Always something to do.
balmy condor
time gated cloak catchups boggle my mind honestly
if you start playing today, you're not catching up
solar flicker
yea the corruption res and the vendor cycle has cucked me the hardest
exp 3 the first week, also the first week i got any echoes
at 68 corrupt res rn
indigo mulch
I didnt even know exp 3 was all to good for rogues at first ._."
solar flicker
no lust
balmy condor
^
indigo mulch
just stack crit/mastery tho. Isent that what you do for m+?
indigo mulch
Yeah
balmy condor
the way you play a tyrannical workshop vs a teeming fort motherload
like
there's no way
solar flicker
breath was better for me for a while
indigo mulch
Even if its a downgrade on sims, on-demand burst is almost always better. o:
solar flicker
breath is on demand burst lol
also u probably wont hit all the % windows for the cdr on it
shits annoying in m+ but its fine on a boss
indigo mulch
I guess i just prefer bote
solar flicker
rt
verbal sparrow
imagine having a luck for mechagon rings :))
I've been mecha like 15 times and when I could drop that ring from behind, someone else keep it (my friend)
because healer needs it more yknow
I wanted fkin lowkick him into jaw after that
And his excuse was that I already have a set ( I have Natural dmg when I drop below 50% )
All I want is just a nice set 
sullen pagoda
just loot it or
solar flicker
i have recursion instead of division
droptomizer shows a .3% diff imma still spam for it
verbal sparrow
I just wait when expedient will appear in shop, ill buy 2 more for those rings and wont drop them till shadowlands 
steep plover
If u dont raid much and u only have 1 set of gear rn is there any point running expedients?
As in ur main focus wikl be m+
strange python
probably not if you focus on m+
arctic token
if you go SS and and echoing blades.. where does TB and exsanguinate fall in. i know those are single target.. but exsang is better with high haste right. i have 50 crit 12 haste 41 mastey atm. and i usually go tb. guildee said go exsang. but idk if i have the haste for that. just curious
tropic ocean
you don't necessarily need haste to play exsang in m+
the burst is still very good due to playing 3 ss traits in m+
sturdy mesa
So haste build is viable in m+?
tropic ocean
well depending on your key anything is viable
but haste-build wont compete dps output with 3 ss 3 eb crit/str stack
atomic creek
I just got back to the game recently. What are the top 3 corruptions to look for in Assassination? Raiding & M+
runic kernel
What do you guys think is the best sin pvp guide atm? Icy veins?
arctic token
im mostly asking what the opt choice would be between ex and tb for mplus. i know keys vary. but every week youll be going through trash. im leaning towards ex with hidden blades or tempest. because trash rarely stands still. tanks are going to be moving. and some weeks they actually have to. so poison bomb may be best if everything stays put.. just doesnt happen. im liking ex because i can pop and go to another target. with tb in order for it to work you need to be on that target for 9 seconds and watch your energy. any thoughts on what im thinking?
tropic ocean
hidden blades is inferior to tempest/pb
and exsang is very strong as it gives u super high burst on hard prio mobs
arctic token
thats what i was thining
frigid briar
Sin pvp guide is pretty straight forward, get resets when you can, sap out of combat enemies, kick healers, Blind only when you can force trinket or make a kill.
kidney shot everytime toxic blade comes off cooldown on kill target
keep bleeds on 2 targets
Use drestagath trinket when they are low and finish them with breath of the dying
After that is mainly stuff you will learn from playing more and who your playing with
Also better asking in PVP channel
last gyro
through haste% stacking do oyu get more haste from troll racial
or attackpower of orc even better ?
tropic ocean
troll racial is flat % not sure if its buffed
last gyro
ty
steep plover
Is there a point whwre a stat wi start dropping off? Like amount of crit or mastery for m+
Like say going over 50% crit doesmt yield much benefit or something like that
torpid mesa
french
gray briar
hi 🙂 got some Assa questions for m+, i really would need some help ( i read so much and just got more cunfussed...)
i tried outlaw and its just disgussting to play... roll the bones... WTF?!^^ And AOE is just depending on this GCD-Blade Rush ... not very fun to play.. idk :/
So assa is awesome, I also raided very nice with it, got cara dagger^^ 🙂
-
But for M+ i got a bit diffusing information.... Guides tell to go for crit /mastery first and in the end for haste. At rio the best assa's go exclusively for haste (corruption included) 😄 No guide talks about that???
-
What about Traids? What has more Prio? Stacking shrouded suffocation or stacking Echoing Blades? Because the high ppl dont have any Echoing Blades on...why? Because BIS items dont have the traid, or because this week is tyranical? :o
Atm i go 2x EchBlades, 1x shrouded suffocation ,1x Heart of Dark ... i clould drop the H.o.Darkness for one more shrouded suffocation?
I also can drop one Blades for , 1x shrouded suffocation and 1x Heart of Dark...
- So mainly spoken: what is better worth stacking: shrouded suffocation or Blades and where is Heart of Darknes in that ranking?
Even with shadowmelt... is shrouded suffocation that great in m+? often u have chain pulls and cant stealth that often right?
THX so much for help 🙂
high siren
assa haste is for raiding, where did you see an assa with mainly haste ?
lime edge
For 3x ss 3x eb, for stats, it's crit, then what? Mastery?
high siren
SS doesn't scale with enemy number, where EB does, so you'd want to play mainly EB in keys like motherlode, and SS in keys like KR
At the end, see how your tank pulls and adapt, SS will have more value on small packs
gray briar
@high siren cant i go m+ as well? :0 😦 😦
high siren
what do you mean ?
gray briar
https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Exâr#season=season-bfa-4 he as an example
uncut walrus
Does the cara daggers should be purified to add expedient ?
gray briar
But in general: Assa can be played in m+? (without beeing the end of dps^^)
or should i really go for outlaw in m+ ?:(
plain thistle
yes, assa has really good damage, outlaw isnt the "best" because it does more damage than assa
its more useful because it has more utility (vanish without being a offensive CD, gouge, etc)
gray briar
ok
plain thistle
but dont worry, you can play pretty high level keys with both specs just fine
gray briar
k:) now also the traids make more sense...
plain thistle
and for the builds, it will depend on the week and dungeon, raid build (expedient, exsg, etc) can be played efficiently for some dungeons
gray briar
and the stats for m+ keys stay like the guides tell? Crist, mastery then haste?
@plain thistle ok the raid build i understand, what about a build for Freehold or ML (many Adds)
plain thistle
3SS + 3 EB, with a couple severes rank 3 (1-2) and rest strikethrough is a good setup, not sure what exactly the stats weight are, but crit for sure 😂
thats like the general setup a lot of people are running, you dont need exactly that, something similar will work fine as well
gray briar
so TD is not a vendor goal to buy, then i should buy one or two strikethrough today (is atm at the vendor), i missed severes ^^
strange python
Keep in mind, that 3 EB is generally waaaaay overkill in Dungeons like Workshop, Kings Rest, Siege (If you play spotter), and arguably Temple
dry terrace
why is mastery so overlooked now that people are playing shrouded suffocation? with enough haste doesn't mastery become more valuable to stack?
high siren
haste loses value since you're energy caped
strange python
How is it overlooked? Honed Mind R3 is in the BiS cor list, as the last piece.
And for people with tons of haste from other sources, non haste items sometimes even pull ahead. E.g. Raz is running versa mast legs from wrathion
@dry terrace
strange python
And I think most top end geared people also run the Crit Mast Boots from cara
dry terrace
maybe i didnt look closely enough
strange python
Well you don't see as much as haste simply because haste is mostly better up to a certain Point and that Point is very far ahead
Like I said, 475 Vers Mast legs outsim 475 Crit Haste legs for raz
But thats very high end minmaxed Gear
dry terrace
haste increases the ticks on garrote yeah?
tropic pebble
you waste the haste in m+ not auto attacking aswell
strange python
Yes, among other things
dry terrace
so if you're not able to get to the next tick then stacking other stats is better i suppose?
hollow vigil
Yo i see a bunch of people choosing to run expedient or twisted appendage on warcraft logs, which is better for raiding all-around?
strange python
When a periodic effect with a duration unequal to a precise multiple of the tick interval expires, a final tick will be dealt equal to the percentage of a normal tick duration that elapsed since the last full tick. For example, if a periodic effect has a duration of 15.0 seconds and due to haste has a tick interval of 2.0 seconds, it will deal 7 ticks at normal damage (14.0 seconds), then deal a final 8th tick for 50% of normal damage. This means that all periodic effects scale, in both DPS and total damage done, in a smooth manner with additional haste, with no breakpoints or jumps in benefit.
strange python
@tropic pebble we were talking about raids
tropic pebble
oh
strange python
With expedient stacking SS Builds
tropic pebble
mb
strange python
Happens
@hollow vigil expedient stacking SS exsang with good mythic gear is better "all around"
But tendies simply have the GIGA variance. Can do some absolutely insane damage If you get Back to Back multiple procs
Rather not rely on that though
dry terrace
just saw the guide in the pinned message. any thoughts on ineffable truth instead of the honed mind. i mean if honed mind doesnt proc inside of the burst window it loses some value
cobalt pelican
a honed mind proc outside of the burst window > an ineffable truth proc at any point in time
dry terrace
i guess my last question is highly dependent on kill times. if you cant get an extra vanish its useless
cobalt pelican
kinda yeah, and that'd be so unreliable unless it's the case that it's like
a 3 minute fight and a single ineff proc puts you at an entire extra cd
dry terrace
true yeah
cobalt pelican
or, a 2 min fight rather i guess
strange python
Praying rn
jolly star
solar flicker
sitting on 40k echoes since getting cucked first week
im ready to blow a fucking bag
icy ember
same i bought 3x severe 3 last week and one exp 3 and one exp 2
solar flicker
but I have no 475s to put them on and my azerite sucks 
main blaze
Thats what I thought too
wary ice
the hot fix was to wowhead's thing not anything on blizzards end; so the prediction thing is just lined up with what they actually predict now
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/IykJVfK.png seems like a good expedient item 
drifting light
They first mentioned the 16th, then they posted another prediction it would only be up by the 26th
Now we back to the 16th I guess
Wonder if worth snagging a couple of GW
sturdy mesa
i'd almost save the echoes and buy the expedient since it's only a week
dark token
no way unless you put it on 485s
hushed lion
dark token
im saving 7x expedients i actually have all 475 bis to cleanse and put it on
solar stone
hey guys, is gushing wounds still a viable corruption for raid? or should I wait for expedient 3
outer moon
Want gushing for pvp.. also want to save echoes for expedient.. gaaah
cedar vessel
Gushing still seems to clap in pvp
paper kelp
can't wait to finally do damage again in raid
solar stone
So, I better save my echoes for expedient? Im looking to improve my dps on raid lol
balmy cradle
so full gushing for pvp should be fine with vers nerf und conflict nerf right?
paper kelp
i'd say that the vers nerf isn't big enough for it to be bad tho
because the further we go the more we'll be able to have
balmy cradle
not saying vers is bad but rather that gw is a viable option again
maybe a mix for the meantime cant buy full set anyway
paper kelp
dunno but as long as locks can do 0.7 chaos bolt im not giving up on vers
mint oar
anything good for this week corrupotion vendor?
dim rivet
gushing wound
limber kite
did they nerf gushing arleady?
paper kelp
yes
limber kite
should i spend on gushing or save for expen
dim rivet
but you'd use expedient for exang or strikethrough for mutilate build
lean marten
10 WV ally sim lul
dim rivet
gushing would only by a temporary corruption until you get the rank 3 stat / strikethrough most likely
fleet whale
you would still use some expedient for the mutilate build too
dim rivet
yea maybe
mint oar
isnt that softcap?
dim rivet
if not more
mint oar
for the tb build at least
fringe socket
welcome to the fun 🙂
mint oar
yea corruption sucks
fringe socket
broken zodiac
maybe there is a cap for haste, if you are always at 100 energy
fringe socket
i THINK this is accurate
outer moon
Welcome to needing 3 sets of gear, 3 sets of corruptions, and swappable gems and enchants.
fleet whale
all i do is swap azerite between M+ and raid along with a few other pieces... i don't even bother with multiple corruption
delicate bone
Your not stacking expedient for the energy
fleet whale
and it's not like high haste is even that bad in M+ anyway cause of how much damage garrote does
broken zodiac
yes it's for garrot
outer moon
I'm using the same stuff for Sin and Outlaw right now.. Just want some pvp specific corruption cause crit is poo
delicate bone
Crit is great for outlaw
outer moon
Yeah. I'm using crit for outlaw and sin. DD/NP/VoP build
I could swap to the expedient build next week, based on buying 3 more expedient tokens, just gun shy
fringe socket
that offhand tho
fringe socket
you should try and get a 460 dagger from pvp maybe
cus like
weapon dps is pretty big i think
broken zodiac
essence is bad i think
mint oar
i dont have boe 3
broken zodiac
Blood of the ennemy in major
mint oar
so im running breath
fringe socket
it is
mint oar
boe 2 sims lower
broken zodiac
ok
mint oar
dont have it
lime edge
Double*
lime edge
I started this game like 2 months ago, xd
paper kelp
and get an offhand
mint oar
and azerite?
paper kelp
also dont use twice the same weapon enchant
mint oar
sims say to use that
mint oar
probably not
acoustic flicker
is assa viable for m+ and raiding? not sure if i want to come back and play hunter or rogue and i only really like playing assa
high mantle
anyone have any sim data on what gushing looks like on a 485 piece? how it sims against an expedient?
broken zodiac
+1
mint oar
so should i get gushing wounds with my setup tho?
broken zodiac
with expediant or masterfull
wary ice
bote rank 3 is a bout a week of bg grinding
less if u have enough friends to cut queue time and losses out
its really not that bad
paper kelp
tbh fastest way is to spam pvp island
wary ice
def isnt
mint oar
@paper kelp should i get gushing wounds?
dense cedar
Thank you for the bote grind nerf
paper kelp
I can't answer I don't know how the nerf affects it vs stats
mint oar
are sims updated?
paper kelp
yes
mint oar
cause it shows a decent increase in dps
paper kelp
but it would be worth on a 485 piece I think
mint oar
475 not good enough?
obtuse island
Stack loads of haste gear, stack expidient corruptions and go with 3x SS and 3x HoD, from what i can see, this seems to be the way to go for raiding, is that right?
paper kelp
gorak tul
mint oar
which shoulders?
lime edge
Yea
obtuse island
Ah yeah i see that now
Guessing that means Exang
and BoTE popped just before Vendetta?
paper kelp
glacial crown
is stacking strikethrough good for assasination?
paper kelp
for aoe
hollow jolt
is gushing still worth besides pvp?
glacial crown
what about for single target should i stack haste corrupt?
hollow jolt
aoe = crit
st = haste
glacial crown
tyvm
tribal obsidian
So mamy questions that can be found with sims and pins
tropic jackal
is cowl of fluid machinations still a good ST head piece? it's the one with eb and ss
paper kelp
EB kinda useless in ST
fathom flax
I think it’s going to be worth to have 485 daggers with GW and 7x exp3
That’ll sit you on 35 total corruption after max cloak
paper kelp
so you could add an expedient and be at 55
fathom flax
Who likes running 55
paper kelp
who likes to lose 12% haste increase when able to run it
fathom flax
Who likes getting smacked by TFB on illgy and nzoth
strange python
who the fuck plans to play at max cloak
fathom flax
No one, it’s ages away, but if you’re looking at a set to build toward
I’ve already got 4x exp3 and 2x exp1 when cara drops daggers finally I’ll cleanse and run GW
paper kelp
but TFB are very manageable as rogue
fathom flax
I see the dmg loss of exp3 vs GW on a 485 small considering they’re already pretty fucking close at equal 475
Then you can use the same weapons for m+ anyway
strange python
it seems gw on a 485 is an increase yeah
paper kelp
maybe 3 GW 7 exp 3 ?
strange python
just that you have less exp pieces then and a bit less flexibility to go 39 instead of 59
paper kelp
with the cara boots
strange python
but more flexibility playing other specs
vast forum
at maxed out gear, exp > gw
fathom flax
Yeah so I’m gonna but GW today and sit on it
lime edge
U can always just swap 1 piece of for certain bosses...
fathom flax
I have almost 40k echoes so it won’t effect me
lime edge
Off
fathom flax
If exp3 comes soon
vast forum
highest simming build at capped cloak is 7exp3 1exp2 hm3
fathom flax
Probably 2/7 tho
vast forum
0 gw in highest sim
fathom flax
Yeah but sims are never real life
strange python
can you link that sim yoppa?
rose sapphire
but highest sim with 0 RNG almost should be better than GW which is not highest sim + added rng?
winter gale
By saying next week when speaking about Expedient, do you mean next weekly reset or on saturday? 😂
vast forum
next weekly reset
vast forum
at least according to the hotfixes 
paper kelp
that sim is 55 corruption right ?
vast forum
yes
winter gale
Better (and obvious since it says next week 😂)
vast forum
if you wanna play <40, play 8 r3 expedient and 1 r1 expedient
winter gale
On guide over 40 is honed mind 3 expedient 2 and 7 expedient 3
I bought both of the other 2
Now just expedients
ebon patio
So.. quick question. Seems like everyone is talking about GW.. I'm currently running 2xTA. 2 exp 2, 2 exp 1. Should I swap both TA for 2xGW and make place for next week exp 3 or just save for exp 3?
fathom flax
Sim it
GW scales with ilvl
It’s really “only good” on 485s
Exp is good regardless
fathom flax
I’m talking about a niche ish case that not everyone has access too
vast forum
mint oar
should i buy a random 470 azerite?
vast forum
gw is a loss to expedient on 485
ebon patio
@vast forum It's still a huge gain over TA
tribal fern
Anyone know what this addon is?
mint oar
all the things
tribal fern
Aha, great thankls
mint oar
anyone have raidbots premium?
mint oar
I need some help
how is this siming lower
Than this
When one of the options in the first sim is the same as the top second sim
strange python
iris major
mint oar
ty
strange python
np
mint oar
i simmed w gorak tul and my gear isnt good enough
should i run it for m+?
i need more haste for the exango build
slim pebble
I have heroic gibbering maw from the raid.. Is it worth to take a chance on the random azerite head?
paper kelp
get shoulders first
slim pebble
I need the Gorak Tul ones?
paper kelp
yes
fleet jacinth
galecallers in weekly ches
slim pebble
@paper kelp Oddly enough I got them on my first try
high mantle
@vast forum can you rerun your sim above, but also select poison bomb as a talent? Im wondering through that lost of the expedient for GW that CT is no longer the go to talent.
vast forum
that's still a lot of expedients...
and no, i cba remaking the sets
didn't save them
high mantle
kk
vast forum
it's still r21 expedient, there's no way PB outscales that
high mantle
also not seeing it in the pins but anyone have a link the the CT guide for single target?
strange python
its just another dot you keep up
vestal wren
@mint oar the r word is auto moderated on this server
cunning lagoon
does ineffable truth shorten the cd of shadowmeld?
last gyro
does anyone here have a mouse over macro for poisoned knife ?
vast forum
/cast [@mouseover] poisoned knife
last gyro
ty
lost thorn
Gushing worth buying as exsang spec or just wait for expedients?
vast forum
just wait for expedients
cedar vessel
If you’re running SSx3/EBx2 Crit/mastery build for m +, do you use deeper strategum?
strange python
no
balmy condor
Vigor
solar summit
hey guys, does exsanguinate affect gushing wounds?
cedar vessel
Gotcha
solar summit
also, how much % crit/haste/mastery should i be aiming for with bleed build
balmy condor
exsang does not affect gushing wounds iirc
And there’s no breakpoints
Stats and stat weights change constantly
Stack expedients and haste for single target, stack crit for m+
Keep a decent amount of the rest to balance a little bit
Always sim yourself
frigid briar
Gushin wounds aint even a bleed, its a shadow dot afaik
balmy condor
Yeah that’s what I thought too
Blizzards wording is kinda vague on things sometimes
shut garnet
is there any benefit to running vop minor on cara instead of c&s
balmy condor
Like MA giving crit only to rogue skills
shut garnet
like would the vendetta timings at 130 be better in any way for the fight or just simming difference
balmy condor
If you’re playing exsang probably not
hidden plinth
is the haste build viable in m+ too ?
balmy condor
Yes, but it’s not the best
Crit stacking will be far better
Depends on “viable” honestly
For 15’s? Sure, run a haste build, probably okay honestly
fleet whale
it's not that bad if you have 3 SS and you shoult
balmy condor
For 20’s? Probably not
half hull
Hey guys anyone tried full mastery build with exsanguinate for pvp?
balmy condor
Yeah
Stat weights change
My “best” is mastery atm
I don’t think simming stat weights is particularly helpful
white wyvern
Haste is perfectly fine in 20+s.
balmy condor
I haven’t seen a sin rogue run haste in 20’s
fleet whale
garrote is a very large part of your damage in M+
balmy condor
But it doesn’t sound bad
fleet whale
so it probably wouldn't hurt that bad if you still had some exp for M+
especially for something like Tyrannical KR with no teeming
fleet whale
and the haste will obviously be better for bosses
tropic charm
So is expedient truly the best for raiding? I was just scrolling through logs and only like 3 out of the top 10 stack it. I’m currently stacking it, but was wondering why others are stacking vers or crit
fleet whale
some of those top logs just have god RNG with Mind Flay
and you see them stacking those
tropic charm
Ahh. So expedient is best because of the god-levels of haste and the lack of rng needed?
fleet anchor
So is expedient truly the best for raiding
Yeah, definitely. On average, Expedient setups will do the most DPS of anything we have available.
TA top end has always had potential but that is 1 out of 1000 luck in the top parses, or maybe lower.
lone junco
stars rng is a bummer as well
fleet whale
i find stars to be more consistent than TA at least in my experience
tropic charm
Sweet. I hate rng, which is one reason I hate outlaw, but was just curious. I’ve been stacking expedient and when the next round of exp 3 comes out I believe I can get R20 of it. I just don’t know the cap for how many we want or if there is one. So if anyone knows that, that’d be helpful!
balmy condor
Pins
chilly marsh
Exp is still top if you lose some uptime on boss? if you need to move GW would not give more consistent dps ?
balmy condor
Correct
Cause you should still have bleed uptime, and a lot of the damage comes from the cooldown phases with exsang at least
fleet anchor
GW is not really very competitive anymore and Expedient buffs your own DoTs so I doubt you would see a gain from GW stacking just for that purpose
chilly marsh
but dot is still tehre no?
balmy condor
So are your dots
white wyvern
It doesn't last forever.
fleet anchor
I mean GW is fine but it's not ideal
tropic ocean
gushing is what
tropic charm
Thank you, didn’t know that was pinned
tropic ocean
5s ?
fleet anchor
7
tropic ocean
or 7 yea
tropic charm
So if I have GW but could replace it with exp, should I?
balmy condor
Yeah, only purify it at the very end
tropic charm
I don’t think I’ve gotten a belt from a M+ or chest since I got the GW piece like 8 or 9 weeks ago
Let me tell you, I do have a nice collection of bracers though
unkempt fern
If I'm not going to be getting 485+ gear ever, is it worth it to get GW? I'm running low M+ keys and normal/heroic raiding. I've been saving echoes for awhile. Only bought expedient 2 so far
tropic jackal
hey all was wondering if anyone would be able to help me out on my sim. currently stuck at 80k dps with 3 r3 exped i have saved in my bank. when i sim 6 r3 exped i only gain 2k dps. I'm really wondering what makes the difference between an 80k dps sim vs a 100k dps sim
is this as far as i'll get with my current gear?
main forge
Take your fight length down to 3:00 minutes and see what happens
I think that is where some of those "100k" dps sims come from
cobalt pelican
you don't have a single socket on any piece of gear
heroic azerite that isn't even really great
next solar
any suggestions? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9kakJUkE1GuBb8A91sVyfw
fleet anchor
@main forge I mean maybe some of them, but it's pretty easy to get 100k+ sims at 5 minutes with Expedient stacking
tropic jackal
so is it really just missing sockets/crappy azerites/a little lower ilvl gear in general that make a 20k difference in sim dps? @cobalt pelican
cobalt pelican
everything ads up
next solar
^
cobalt pelican
but you're kinda behind in every regard
next solar
especially in windows
fleet anchor
But at the end of the day that profile you linked above only has a 465 weapon and not many sockets so it still does need some work
As well as a Heroic Azerite chest
cobalt pelican
no part of this sim i can look at and say 'this piece has a place in end game gear'
tropic jackal
hmm alright alright thank you everyone for the help 🙂
opal minnow
@tropic jackal you may also want to look into playing TB untill you get better azerite+more haste
tropic jackal
really just feel so behind and having a hard time catching up
fleet anchor
I mean 80k isn't terrible just keep working on your gear. Nobody gets 100k for free unless they are a Hunter. 😛
cobalt pelican
it's just, almost every spot has either a direct upgrade (or a socket upgrade in the case of the rings)
vast forum
not even haste mechagon ring tho
fleet anchor
I was stuck at 85k for a long time, then mid-90s, now in the 106k range and still waiting for the vendor to finish up my set. There's always something to do.
cobalt pelican
oh it's double the wack set
near coyote
whats the point in having more than one gushing wounds they dont stack do they?
cobalt pelican
they stack just fine
tropic jackal
yeah i'm having terrible luck on the mechgon rings 😦
vast forum
why would they not stack?
near coyote
must be a ui glitch for me
tropic jackal
seroiusly thanks guys for the help really making me feel better lol
just gonna keep grinding
cobalt pelican
no
last gyro
fleet whale
it's not a big deal though
last gyro
I mena isn't that kinda a huge dmg loss ?
main forge
your damage on psychus comes from the appendages giving him the buff
distant lava
80k isnt bad
last gyro
with ss and subte
fleet whale
not really with how n'zoth goes
distant lava
That was my sim when i killed nzoth
last gyro
yeah o k
fleet whale
it's a long fight and the first psychus phase is almost irrelevant
main forge
plus your real damage should be your burst on n'zoth himself during the phase where you can damage him
next solar
i cant decide on what i want to do in my raid tonight, assass or outlawl for our reclear T.T
harsh sphinx
unfortunate
frigid sleet
Strong vision build 
deft obsidian
pine pecan
whats EB?
sweet rampart
Do you guys run Ashvane's razor coral?
tropic ocean
used to run it until high ilvl plumage/gladiators medallion
sweet rampart
the others out simmed it? I wonder why bloodmallet has it sooo high
vital haven
bloodmallet just gives you a very general overview of azerite traits, trinkets etc
upper spear
is anyone grabbing Gushing Wounds? is there a viable reason to run one stack of it? or just ZugZug Expedient 3 or bust.
astral leaf
GW is nice to pickup if you’re gonna play outlaw as well as Sin
It’s good for both but not necessarily best for both
sweet rampart
of course i sim, lol i was just curious, if bloodmallet is a general overview, it values the fuck out of ARC lol
lime edge
How do people get 3xss 3xeb without waiting 30 weeks
20k residuum is about 10 weeks
Like wtf
sturdy python
Luck
jovial haven
You can get 40 from some of the emissaries + 20 from regular mythics 😋
thick root
Could someone please help me? I'm having a hard time choosing trinkets for my m+ build and not sure if I should rely on this sim...
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xqu2NAD5r3Qkko9sXRhGqs
I have all the trinkets in there ^
runic prairie
I agree with dungeon slice being inaccurate
next solar
so essentially, unless you stacked expediant, its all up to tendie rng?
balmy condor
I mean
You could just not run tendies
Crit builds are fine if you don’t have a second set yet
runic prairie
I have a question going into mythic carapace and mythic Nzoth. I currently have 3x double dose 2x nothing personal 1x twist the knife. I could swap to shrouded suffocation x3 with an assortment of the other 3 azerite. Would this be the right move? Sims show a few thousand dps increase on patchwork fights and on warcraft logs this is what people seem to do. Does the expedient stacking make shrouded suffocation pull ahead?
next solar
depends on your role, does your raid need cleave or st
next solar
forsure, i meant in general for it
balmy condor
Tru
next solar
deep into mythic raids boss kill>parses, as long as you get the kill thats whats important
runic prairie
I would need to focus on ST damage for my raids comp
drifting cloud
you wrote a few thousand so casually
a few thousand is alot.
and you are playing 2np 3dd so what exactly would change
you would just do more dmg
runic prairie
I forget the exact change of dmg. I think it was from 87k to 90k. I ran the sims last night. I wasnt going to change anything till expedient rank 3 comes back in the shop cause I need to stack that for this to work.
As for what would change. I would need to adjust how I play with vanish to ensure I garrote during it
As I would change my talents ofcourse from master assassin to subterfuge
long portal
Was something changed with Formless Void apl? It randomly sims 500dps more than FI this week
vernal mauve
Is there anything on coruption that we want?
long portal
nope
vernal mauve
Dang, I was hoping there was some :/
fathom flax
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9edP73KMEYg2t4bjYvqKk5 btw
@vast forum I wonder what the sim dps using the same settings except 7 exp 2 GW on 485s is
vast forum
that's what's simmed there