never seen someone take vop and just not press their button though
#assassination
cobalt pelican
rancid bobcat
what do you mean first time he moves
sullen pagoda
u delay first vanish for 2nd vendetta on wrathion when using vop minor @dense blaze
dense blaze
I'm gonna see what happens if I just use CNS
cobalt pelican
you effectively just lose a vendetta for cns vers
rancid bobcat
i mean
if they're using vendetta at any time before 2 minutes
then yes they are using vendetta as if they have VoP
because you can't otherwise
so i dont get the confusion
cobalt pelican
i played this week with just random shit and it was fine, the vop vend seems pretty weak dick playing exsang tbh
rancid bobcat
you still get another vendetta if your kill time is soon after 1st pillars
so its worth
cobalt pelican
that's a
2min vend though
look at a normal vop log like
2nd vend is 1:30 as expected
rancid bobcat
the fuck is that
cobalt pelican
your damage profile playing exsang is so front forward it's like
doing 20% more damage while you're noodling mut for 8k and just have bleeds ticking is good but not great
it's the closest vop log to mine for wrathion
cobalt pelican
exsang
that's not really how it works
let me find a log that has exsang during it but isn't offsetting the first vanish
rancid bobcat
im not sure what your point is
the guy didnt line anything up with it so yeah of course his damage didn't go up during it
cobalt pelican
your damage during a vop vend is exceedingly bad playing exsang unless you're taking damage from elsewhere
is more or less the point
frigid briar
cobalt pelican
can you link that one?
frigid briar
Thats my kill this week on wrath
cobalt pelican
your lust opener being that weak just looks like you're cutting vanish
which will kinda make it look worth
rancid bobcat
frigid briar
Yeah I hold vanish for VOP vendetta
rancid bobcat
why not then
cobalt pelican
because you're cutting damage from one place to add it to another
it's like a direct tradeoff right
less lusted emp garrote ticks
for more bote covered vend garrote ticks
rancid bobcat
obviously the tradeoff is in favor of saving vanish
cobalt pelican
(these aren't covered by 2nd pot too either usually)
cobalt pelican
maybe, i'm not sure one way or another
rancid bobcat
at least for the fight profile of wrathion
cobalt pelican
i think you can definitely make the argument that
playing clf no vop and cutting the tiny dick vend is worth it
wet ruin
plode, cuz you mentioned 2nd pot, can you do some apl changes for me
wet ruin
since on st fight you use focused resolve, I was wondering if using the pot like 10-15 sec before popping your second vendetta vanish exsang would be a gain
so it can stack and you get the phat crit
glacial jasper
Wait what ppl looking at perfection in major now?
cobalt pelican
should be easy enough to check one sec
wet ruin
though I am not sure how this will work with the current apl since sometimes its doing a very very delayed exsang
even wasting blood at times 😄
fleet anchor
Someone has suggested a delayed resolve and I saw no gain from it when I tested
Like if anything having this much Haste is going to biased more towards the hasted RPPM potion and not away from it
But second potion could possible use some work for some small gains
wet ruin
its not delayed, its the opposite
also koji since you are here, I have something for you
cobalt pelican
seems like a small but worth gain to just press it a bit before vanish comes up, where the cutoff is idk
wet ruin
fleet anchor
The Exsanguinate setup is not really overly predictable though because it depends on existing bleed timings, so pre-timing the potion is gonna be a little iffy sometimes
cobalt pelican
i wouldn't ever aim for it to overlap with exsang
just to have the crit before the garrotes are applied
rather than nakeding it and stacking up since vend always comes after vanish anyway
fleet anchor
Can't just rely on checking vanish cooldown especially since I'm going to be experimenting with a delayed vanish for CLF on some fight lengths
cobalt pelican
yeah, i mean this is super primitive
but it should work for that case anyway right? you only ever get one
i guess it wouldn't work for <2min fights
wet ruin
I guess its hard for the apl, but in the fight you can kinda know when you are gonna pop the exang and vanish
fleet anchor
I mean do you have an actual Raidbots link for that Annsie? Not really enough information there in that screenshot to tell me much
fleet anchor
Perhaps, although I'd say generally speaking... testing with various APL modifications really show that delaying Exsanguinate for any non-trivial amount of time is almost always a loss
wet ruin
I was testing guardian vs blood on 3 min
fleet anchor
Despite the feelycraft to the contrary
wet ruin
and came acrross that
thought it was very weird
and I was wondering if blood was 'that low'
because of stuff like that
on a shorter fight specifically
where you only get 1 guardian
fleet anchor
Blood is earlier there so that the entire crit buff fits within Vendetta
wet ruin
is it really early?
in my opinion its way too late
you lost more than half of your emowered garrote
fleet anchor
No you always try to sync Blood with Exsanguinate
wet ruin
when you can get all of it in a blood window
fleet anchor
You have Seething Rage up the entire Exsanguinated Garrote window there
wet ruin
I guess just not having vanish used 'right'on cooldown
frigid briar
What fights can we even use CLF in current teir now. Seems so out of touch with killtimes and push times.
fleet anchor
But Blood is "so low" because Blood is just worse
CLF is literally better on every fight length
Like WCL backs this up very easily
wet ruin
I mean, I have the seething rage, but I don't have the 25% extra crit
frigid briar
It does?
fleet anchor
Like on Maut the contribution from double Blood on 2:30-3 minute pulls
Is easily lower than most of the top-end CLF single uses
Just from the pet damage alone
I've looked at quite a lot of logs
fleet anchor
And can't really find a single one where Blood is better
wet ruin
its just that it seems that blood usage is being butchered by the apl
wet ruin
and its making it worse than it is
fathom swift
Clf is still prepull in apl right
faint harness
I did not encounter any clf bugs when i played it
fathom swift
Was having issues with it bugging and not casting for a while when used like that
faint harness
Seems to be about 40 hits per use ish
fleet anchor
Prepull vs. non-prepull CLF is roughly the same damage
If you have problems with the pet AI being dumb, just use it after Subterfuge
faint harness
Dunno what ur doing to your rock bolas
fleet anchor
that's fine
faint harness
Never had that issue
wet ruin
oof, thats quite big though
cobalt pelican
(was mostly done on 3min~ sims)
cobalt pelican
mayb
lemme find one
i remember cause i told ryler about my epic 193second sim
a lot of these gains will be
fight length
because (3min)
and the second cast
if i extended to 5 min or down below 3 min
the difference was a bit less
but that's what i was checking for at the time
wet ruin
wait, blood is -175 for you?
worldly condor
Do you save the 2nd BotE for vendetta with the opener rotation? or do you use BotE on CD?
cobalt pelican
this is a 192second (lol) sim with low variation
wet ruin
I mean 192 is close to 180 😄
fleet anchor
I mean his sim shows -1403
It's only the adjusted one that is lower
The precombat is the default
wet ruin
ah true
fleet anchor
Not sure there isn't something odd here though, since I've never seen it that big of a difference for precombat
cobalt pelican
but it's hmm
not sure
cause like
if i lower <3min
so there's NO precombat gains from a 2nd cast
meaning this should be purely
2bote vs 1clf
fleet anchor
Gonna try with a fresh profile to make sure everything is copying correctly
cobalt pelican
the changes were pretty simple though, idk why i did it backwards but precombat was the existing apl, default is just the old apl clf line before the change, making sure the new exsang stuff was included
for my guild it's never been much of an issue for me to drill down into, most of our 3min fights still edge just over 3min (3:21 hivemind, 3:17 raden, 3:30 xanesh or w/e)
so it's always been obvious to just play clf and precombat clf for me
cause the contest between 1.5 clfs and bote is never remotely close
fleet anchor
cobalt pelican
1 usually
cobalt pelican
my guild only really has moonkins that ninja so it's easy enough to spot
fleet anchor
That is 180 second fight length, vary_combat_length=0.0
wet ruin
if its 4 the you might as well not pre combat it
fleet anchor
e.g. exactly 180 seconds no matter what
cobalt pelican
i'm not exactly sure how precombat would ever be a loss in sim though, since you lose literally 0 casts right?
and it overlaps all of your burst
fleet anchor
I think perhaps you maybe have some consumable or something not matched up between the copies
cobalt pelican
maybe
fleet anchor
I mean error is 106 dps, that's only like 137 dps outside of error
Seems to match to me with ~1s loss of pet time
wet ruin
well, the pre-combat guardian is getting 1sec advantage
not sure if it matters
since its pre-cast at 0 and then garrote at 0
or is that taken into account
cobalt pelican
all of the consumables seem to be correct looking through the copies
numbers are hard
i hate them!!!!!
in sim precombat should always be within margin as a worst case unless i'm missing something, since it's 0.01 seconds or something between clf cast and you save a gcd on your opener (before considering the gains to exsang from hitting 5 instead of having.. 2? stacks)
wet ruin
its like 3 stacks for me usually
fleet anchor
Yeah it's some minor tradeoff either way
That's why I say I've only seen it within 0.1 or so
cobalt pelican
yeah
fleet anchor
There shouldn't really be a perceptible difference
Unless you have pet AI issues with one or the other
wet ruin
can you check that 180 0 variance with my profile plode
cobalt pelican
you should just be able to click copy raw input
and paste your profile in
woops i kinda cropped off the only button that matters
🙈
wet ruin
let me see
cobalt pelican
i'll quadruple check the consumables but for me i guess this indicates for my character at least i should consider bote when we finally start getting shad/raden to <3min
but that's going to be a while with rerolls
i'm pretty content playing clf for now, lil guy blasts
wet ruin
which ones are your default essences
cobalt pelican
clf/iris/breath/bote i think
and bote is bote/lucid/formless/breath (this was best at the time, it's changed a bit now)
the original vers of the sim was done like 3 weeks ago or something
wet ruin
just gonna put your essences on mine
cuz I don't have a sim opened with guardian on it right now
precombat seems to be a loss for me as well
cobalt pelican
it'll end up being more or less equal as long as it's single use
but yeah
the real big gains are when you're doing a 3:10 boss or something the extra 10 seconds of clf blasts
wet ruin
good thing I don't trust my guild or the buyers to not prepull
frigid briar
What bosses do you run CLF on?
wet ruin
man, one pre pull and you are done
cobalt pelican
i played it this week on wrathion shadhar maut raden skitra xanesh
revisiting sims maybe bote would be worth on maut and skitra since those are <3min for us, but the rest are still >3min
wet ruin
how about guardian on carapace
cobalt pelican
i did play it this week
but i made a woopsie
and fired it in p2
i think it's probably worth though
wet ruin
yep same 😄
cobalt pelican
the way the fight lines up for me rn it's basically
'2 clfs or 3 botes'
for carapace
wet ruin
I did like 95k dps or something, being very happy that I get to log on carapace for once
but nope
yea, its clf on opener and clf in p3
but
our BL is very weird
cobalt pelican
yeah we do some cringe 6:30 bl
which is like
not good for anything i can possibly do
if i dont play vop
wet ruin
and I am either losing vendetta or not getting one in BL
not sure which one is the correct play
cobalt pelican
2 vends is definitely more worth than a single in lust i think
wet ruin
its either vanish garrote with lust or double vanish garrotes
yea its what I've been doing
cobalt pelican
it'd be nice to be able to play vop minor and
vend right as you go out of p2
and then have it again for lust + 1 more
but then vanish gets all
fucky
and it's like ahhhhhh
wet ruin
I don't really like vop now
since the disaligning of vanish
its a bigger deal than before
even on wrathion, I was looking at some logs, and no vop seems to be equal or better
fleet anchor
I mean keep in mind that as fight lengths get even shorter it actually makes CLF stronger in a relative sense as well
e.g. 3 minutes is literal worse case for it to be averaged over
At 2:30 or 2:00 it's just better
Than at 3:00
frigid briar
Wrathion people are stacking below boss with CDS now
wet ruin
I am not sure if you are gonna see 2 min fights
frigid briar
My guild wont do it :(
cobalt pelican
i skipped vop by accident on wrathion this week and i'm pretty sure i'll continue
frigid briar
Yeah but I want 2. My wrath logs 99. Aint getting it higher without the stack
frigid briar
Yeah I got 99, but to get rank 1 I need the stack
cobalt pelican
just equip ta and bomb the raid till you get lucky
frigid briar
I cleansed all TA
wet ruin
last week I tried the build for the first time and I was playing horribly throughout the raid and I still got 'decent' logs here and there
frigid briar
Hated that shit
wet ruin
gonna try to fix them next week
frigid briar
I swapped to crimson tempest and bought exp from vendor, only killed like 8 bosses but dropped to 34th overall.
fleet anchor
TA can diaf
cobalt pelican
allstars for rogue pretty noncompetitive this tier tbh
fleet anchor
Only TA I still have is a 485 on my Dagger
wet ruin
rank 1s are still gonna be tentacles
fleet anchor
Waiting for next Expedient vendor
frigid briar
Feels good to actually be in control of my char again
fallow dove
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
cobalt pelican
i actually plan to cleanse ta2 when i finally get a dagger
and put strikethrough 1 on it
temporarily
since i slept in and missed buying an expedient 1
fleet anchor
Yeah I agree, it is nice to be able to feel like we aren't just waiting for RNG
cobalt pelican
last reset
frigid briar
I cleansed both daggers
fleet anchor
Yeah I really just didn't have enough time to farm the first 3 days for Expedient III
frigid briar
When 2nd dropped I HS and cleansed it insta
fleet anchor
I only had time to buy 5
wet ruin
but it feels nice to have 13 tentacles proc on vexiona and wipe on 500k 🙂
fleet anchor
So keeping TA for the moment but will be gone within minutes of the next vendor cycle lol
frigid briar
Got 2s and 1s and some 3s
fleet anchor
It's only like
4% of my damage though so
If it's RNG it's kinda whatever
1 piece I can moderately tolerate 😄
But it's just overall a very bad effect
frigid briar
You know on wrathion I rank rank 12 tenticle for 4 weeks, and got 1 proc per fight
lament aurora
@cobalt pelican how do you feel about expedient stack with 3 hod vs 3 eb and severe strike through. Asking you because I know you play the former sometimes
frigid briar
Something was fucked, im sure its atleast 2 per min right?
lament aurora
Asking specifically for m+, namely tyrannical weeks
fleet anchor
TA is only 1 RPPM
Which basically also just means "sometimes just decided not to proc at all"
cobalt pelican
i'd generally stick to a crit based build with eb anywhere that isn't either heavily st check dependant (workshop, kr, temple)
fleet anchor
1 RPPM also means "heyooooo I proc'd 12 times in 3 minutes and get full benefit!"
Just straight gambling lol
wet ruin
koji, how is that formless void major thing going 😄
cobalt pelican
bbi is 1ppm but nobody ever checks its uptime
cause goraks is bis
trust me gamers
clockwork heart is the way forward
frigid briar
Lol
fleet anchor
frigid briar
Id check it if it dropped
frigid briar
Thats some sick RNG
Kinda sick of them in PvP aswell
Seem to spawn on me at the worse times
wet ruin
in pvp you can kill them 90% of the time
assuming your partner knows they can kill them too 😄
frigid briar
Its when you go for a kill, kidney bomb TB and then one spawns on you at range
Its just annoying
fleet anchor
lol I saw one spawn the other day
wet ruin
yea, it sucks, but its not really reliable
wet ruin
cuz usually when they play with tentacles means they lose on versatility so chances are you can easily kill them
frigid briar
They ignore smoke bomb aswell right?
wet ruin
@cobalt pelican have you simmed with gorak?
frigid briar
I still dont have gorak tuls. Kinda accepted its not gonna happen for me this tier
cobalt pelican
it's like a ~200ish dps gain or something at 5min and a loss on 3min
the shorter the fight, the more valuable the opener clockwork heart is i guess
so i'm not too sad about it
wet ruin
hm
vital mantle
You run crimson tempest single target?
balmy condor
its an up single target with enough haste
cobalt pelican
nop
cobalt pelican
not dropped in 3 weeks to any leather users, like 4/8 in the raid can trade already
arctic walrus
did anything new come out of the clf talk a little bit ago
wet ruin
I got the last one cuz no one wanted it
vital mantle
How much base haste would you want before going that over poison bomb?
vital mantle
Just curious when to aim for it
cobalt pelican
not really, i think the consensus is still precombat any 3:00 to 3:30 fight, you can not precombat on any other fight length if you prefer it, bote can be valuable at <3min depending on profile, and focused resolve just before your 2nd vanish setup seems to be a small gain
balmy condor
roughly? probably with 18+ exped
cobalt pelican
i think i have 74% or something and it's still a very negligible upgrade
arctic walrus
nah ct sims good and I'm only at 14
balmy condor
interesting
wet ruin
ah yes, @fleet anchor can you look into the early potion to let it stack a bit more
balmy condor
how many sockets you got?
arctic walrus
just 9
wet ruin
ranks are kinda misleading though
arctic walrus
@cobalt pelican do you have the profile to sim to see if <3m bote is better for me
fleet anchor
Maut down to 1:44 nice haha
frigid briar
Thats pretty quick, mages got masterful rank 3 I guess
frigid briar
Nah, consistant though, only reason I play it
fleet anchor
CT is only a pretty minor upgrade in ST at high haste yeah
Although I think it's fun and it's quite strong on cleave so seems good to me
balmy condor
ye
fleet anchor
Poison Bomb is boring af
frigid briar
And you can easily cleave
balmy condor
our 100 tier is just boring imo
CT is the only thing mildly interesting
poison bomb? hidden blades? yuck
frigid briar
What guild you in koji?
cobalt pelican
@arctic walrus something simple like https://pastebin.com/PCekpeBm should work with your profile in it
if the gap isn't big for bote likely as the fight length gets shorter the benefit of clf will be bigger
for example for me bote is ahead ~700 dps at 3 min (worst case) and equal to clf if the fight comes down to 2:30
and then behind obviously if it's any shorter than that
arctic walrus
damn it's worse than clf at every point
cobalt pelican
yeah i think that's common
fleet anchor
CLF is pretty strong with high neck level
Be like that dude and farm up to 105 or whatever
Rockboi will be slappin'
fleet anchor
I can't even imagine
All the islands that guy has done
I think my soul would be 110% crushed
cobalt pelican
it is kinda curious that bote seems to get significantly worse for me if i lower the fight length from 2:50 to 2:30, is it common for bote to get delayed that much that it's losing casts?
wet ruin
how is that even possible
wet ruin
its like couple million per level at that point
cobalt pelican
you can get like
150-200k a day
maybe 200k is ambitious but
people did at least 100k a day just before world first race
wet ruin
how though
cobalt pelican
<2min islands
cobalt pelican
ya
fleet anchor
lol honestly even the people up at like 99-100 make my mind boggle a little bit
cobalt pelican
there's a rogue who's pretty high too
who actually also plays the real game
afto or w/e
wet ruin
its 9k per hour if you do <2 min and 1 min wait time
fleet anchor
I'm at 93 on reset as well and do all the "major" stuff but have pretty much given up AP grinding at this point
wet ruin
I am at like 94 by just doing weekly islands
fleet anchor
After 3 1/2 years of grinding AP I'm done 😄
wet ruin
I think killing rares is a big contributor
lavish swallow
How does neck level influence neck traits?
fleet anchor
I was doing the new zone rares for a while
Especially when getting rep up
But not so much now
They are a great source of AP though for sure
wet ruin
I stopped doing the bonus objectives like a week ago
so before that I was doing everything
and killing rares in between
fleet anchor
The rares give a surprisingly large amount of AP
wet ruin
yeah, a lot of them give 500
fleet anchor
I usually kill a rare if I happen across it
@lavish swallow it completely depends on the trait
rancid bobcat
some of the big rares are almost impossible to solo though
wet ruin
yea, same, but doing the bonus objectives you spend more time in the zone and getting more rares
rancid bobcat
at least for rogue
fleet anchor
Yeah I don't bother with the 8m+ HP rares, they take too long
lavish swallow
Thanks. Is there a resource that talks about or shows how neck traits scale with level?
wet ruin
there are a very few that you can't actually solo
fleet anchor
I think most of them are possible
But they do take a while
8-12m HP is quite a lot
wet ruin
they take like 3 min
before the exsang stuff
with it you can maybe kill it in 1 min
@cobalt pelican is there something different in those 180 sims, I just noticed I sim 5k less than the normal 180
cobalt pelican
just that it's fixed length
with no variance
which means you'll never get extra clf etc
and the food might be different
wet ruin
but its 5k
is the variance that big
its 5k with blood as well
and you don't get a thrid cast of it
cobalt pelican
nothing is different, you can try removing the entire apl and seeing if it changes
balmy condor
what are we looking at here
fleet anchor
Just buy a lot of Expedients!
balmy condor
more haste?
more haste.
loud brook
I spent it all on strikethroughs and severes for outlaw cause I was too lazy to farm expedient
more haste
fleet anchor
RIP
balmy condor
want sin?
more haste
loud brook
mooooreeeeeeee hassteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
wet ruin
@fleet anchor how much is the 1 extra second of guardian in the pre-pull in the apl matter
fleet anchor
I mean, like I mentioned above, I'm only seeing like a 0.1% difference at best, so I would imagine "not a whole lot"? 😄
wet ruin
is that 0.1% from pre-cast and not pre-cast
👏
balmy condor
I feel like garrote should be more
and lethal strikes should be less
but I guess if things are dying fast enough maybe
wet ruin
@cobalt pelican https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fh3FQKzeQsztuSAGLZxtu1 this is a normal 3 min,
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qD9hpMDEwci1EREiWrR7N4 this is the advanced without the apl stuff
wet ruin
ignoring the extra socket dps, on the normal one guardian is 1k more than blood
tropic ocean
@loud brook was that with 3 shrouded?
cobalt pelican
meaning a lot of them get a 2nd clf
loud brook
yeah
cobalt pelican
like on a normal sim, the fight can be 144seconds to 216seconds
cobalt pelican
so it has
wet ruin
but blood is simming better
loud brook
the sim that i linked earlier was the gear i used @tropic ocean
wet ruin
and on the normal one its 1k behind
cobalt pelican
cobalt pelican
are you sure you removed it
looks like it's still there for me
the line is below the raidbots-generated stuff
if you change it to vary_combat_length=0.2 it should match the top gear sim
because that's the default setting
cobalt pelican
who knows
wet ruin
that gave the +5k
I removed all the apl stuff below that
and left only
copy="precombat"
actions.precombat+="/guardian_of_azeroth,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled"
copy="bote"
azerite_essences="23:3/27:3/35:3/37:4/300573/300575/300576/300577/312927/312928"
cobalt pelican
all that will do is revert to the default apl which is what it should've been using initially
it's possible the one i sent to you was using some weird old blob apl from the git
but my numbers match up with top gear
wet ruin
why is that one 5k lower though
cobalt pelican
well, if you remove the 'default' that i was using, it should revert back to the current default which would be precombat clf anyway
so precombat and it should be exactly the same
wet ruin
yea, was just wondering what were you using that was doing the -5k
wet ruin
ye
cobalt pelican
just link that one should be easy enough to compare
cobalt pelican
seems to just be missing the ct line for some reason
probably because when i did the initial sim (3 weeks ago) it wasn't in the apl
and i just copied that sim and gave it to you
never reuse sims kids
wet ruin
ah, so its just a dead talent then 😄
cobalt pelican
yeah
wet ruin
makes sense
fleet anchor
Damn, throwing out my whole APL revision like that.. smh
cobalt pelican
i do it more often than i'd like to admit, but usually only for my own testing stuff
if i type 't25' into my firefox
i get
which is an apl from like
jan 12
🙈
i've made the mistake enough times to remember to not search anymore now though
wet ruin
can you make fight variance only go lower?
fleet anchor
oh it's the actual revision
cobalt pelican
yip
and i'm not surew hat you mean, you can make it whatever you want
0.2 is 20%
0.05 is 5%
wet ruin
yea, but that is 20% longer or shorter right?
wet ruin
ye
so for example I know the fight is strictly less than 3 min
but can vary
and the variance will mean fight being shorter
cobalt pelican
i don't think so actually but i'm not 100% sure
i usually just use the wiki to check for stuff like that
fathom swift
Why not just make it like 160s with 10% variance or something like that then
Oh actually thats something I was always curious about fight lengtn variation, is it normally distributed or equally?
stuck wind
fathom swift
Cool
grizzled mist
on Mythic Maut im using my CDs/essence on pull. then hoping they come up in time for the obsidian skin phases. is that the correct way to do it? or should i be saving CDs/essence for the skin phases?
or should i use the essence by its self on Skin phase?
balmy condor
usually on prog, you have to slow down for skin phase
especially if you're playing exsang, your burst is going to be crazy
damage isn't so much the issue
you could cloak it
but I wouldn't bother saving cd's for intermission
grizzled mist
nah im not playing exsang
so just continue using them together when they come up?
i do tend to cloak when i pop CDs on skin phase as well.
balmy condor
yeah
balmy condor
I'm assuming 2 cause prog
grizzled mist
2
serene siren
assass in raiding or outlaw?
balmy condor
both good
serene siren
Is outlaw pulling more or are they comparable?
fathom swift
Assa does more st, outlaw does more cleave
serene siren
Ah good thats what I like to hear I want to main assassination cause of the pvp ability too but I just dont want to be outed from mythic+ I asked around and ppl said I wont be able to get into anything over +10 with assassination do you all carry off spec gear around for mythic+?
balmy condor
thats big lmao
serene siren
I just hit 120 so ill prob start out as assassination
balmy condor
you need 3 different gear sets if you want to raid/pvp/m+ as sin
vital haven
anything over a 10 with sin
balmy condor
but saying you won't do anything higher than 10
vital haven
thats hilarious
balmy condor
is the dumbest thing
fathom swift
I usually play outlaw but assa is good in m+ too, it just uses different gear for different content
But saying you cant do 15s lmao
Doubt anybody would even inspect to find out your spec
serene siren
Ah sweet so it capable for raiding/pvp/mythics thats all I needed to hear
vital haven
there are people doing as high as mid 20s with sin
serene siren
Where would I learn about the different sets to carry around for each?
fathom swift
Its mostly azerite and corruption that varies
serene siren
Ah sweet ill check them out is icy veins the best rn to learn about the base stuff like essences?
gaunt aspen
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
drifting cloud
icyveins is good, seli updated it a few weeks ago
wild compass
Hello,do u guys use crimson tempest on the Exsanguinate build or just poison bomb
arctic walrus
it can start simming better for you once you have high enough haste
wild compass
currently have 41%
i just don't know how to fit it in the opener without losing too much on garrote ticks
edgy pawn
equip it, run a quick sim with it, look at the opener
wild compass
ok
strange python
Hi guys, need some advice for my Myth+ equip. Which stats should i prefer? Haste or CritStike? I'm pretty confused and Raider.io is confusing me even more..
arctic walrus
crit and mastery
strange python
Ok, so no haste. Thanks 🙂
arctic walrus
yeah haste sucks in m+
wild kettle
How do you open with CT in single with SS exsang build
gaunt aspen
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
torpid willow
Hi Everyone !
I'm reading the pins but can't find an answer to my problems !
As an Assa, for Raid, currently on first Mythic Boss (Wrathion, Maut, Skitra, Xane'sh), i was wondering what are the best choices.
I'm currently playing with 2xNothing Personnal+2xDouble Dose+1HoD+1TurntheBlades, +21%Haste and 1 InfinityStar R3.
I've read on recently uptaded IcyVeins Guide that IS should be avoided despite Raidbot is always telling me it's the best options.
My questions is, should i stack Expedent or TwistedAppendage ? All the TopRogue on Wlogs with my Azerite are going for Twisted.
And i also see a LOT of TopsRogue playing with SS and HoD. Is it viable to play with 3SS even if not having the HeartofDarkness (I got 3 480 Azerite pieces from the vendor with SS) ? Is the SS build only viable on short fights ? I'm not in a top Guilde, our boss fight are more around 4-5 minutes than 2-3.
Sorry for the bad english, and thanks for reading me !
mystic island
Whats a good macro for assassination rogues?
young portal
@torpid willow stack Expedients over TA considering you're progressing, much more consistent build. TA is such an rng dependent corruption, its cool to fuck around with in reclears but its not ideal for progression at all. As for your azerite, sim yourself!
torpid willow
@young portal Thanks for the answer ! My sims were broken because of the Infinite Stars R3, gonna see without it, what it will tell me !
balmy condor
yeah infinite stars is simbait
young portal
No worries. Infinite stars should be avoided really, only good on like 2 bosses. Again I would rather stack Expedients
last gyro
all the rng dmg is bad 
steep plover
arctic walrus
you can take exsang as well
winter gale
With exsang build I line up plumage with vendetta?
winter gale
What about 2nd and every next CLF in exsang build?
storm perch
should i delay exsang until vendetta is up? or vice versa
and how exsang can be good in m+, if you are making low haste, crit/crit damage build?
winter gale
It sims bit better than bote for me at this moment. I have small amount of expedients atm
storm perch
What about 2nd and every next CLF in exsang build?
@winter gale i know one thing, that you should line clf with your vendetta, so it will be ok if you delay vendetta until clf is up
but fight should be 3.5+ minutes
guess clf has 3 minutes cd
storm perch
if fight is shorter, i would use bote
tropic ocean
@storm perch exsang on cd
and clf you decide to delay it with 1 condition
will you lose 1 cast over the fight or not
so if you know your fight ends in 2min yeah u delay it 1min
quick harbor
Stat weight wise. What is something i should be aiming for ?
Im currently at 73 % haste 33% crit 36% mastery
storm perch
@storm perch exsang on cd
@tropic ocean and its way more better then tb? even with crit build?
tropic ocean
for what?
the difference is not big you play depending on what you want and with proper gear exsang is superior to tb on expedient stack
storm perch
for m+
tropic ocean
for m+ i pretty much only play exsang nowadays
because I like the on demand burst for hard mobs
hoary crown
When the fck are they gonna give rogues some love in the alpha, not hearing a single fckn change😂
winter gale
I am currently at 50% Haste with food buff. I am far from ideal or ? 😄
winter gale
I sim just a bit better with it than my MA build but I need alot more expedients, currently ony 2
I will start exsang now and just add on as it comes again at mother's place 😄
snow hamlet
sorry but TB build stack expedients as good as Exsanguinate build? or other stat like Severe?
primal turret
I think that expedients works fine too
snow hamlet
hmmm
zinc furnace
sorry what does CLF stand for?
strange python
condensed life force
zinc furnace
ah, ty
young vessel
whats the best mythic raiding build atm? for ra-den or fights like this, single target with slight multi-dot/target swap?
young vessel
so triple shrouded suff aight?
tropic ocean
y
young vessel
could anyone like me a sim to see what gear to wear?
i really wouildl ike to try garrote build but
dont really know how it works
young vessel
and overall stat weights for this build?
haste>vers/mastery?
or a mix with haste on major
shrewd iron
if it sims better
sudden trench
What do you guys think of the trinket choice
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9nhCex3rzfDoNe11b51LGe
shrewd iron
I think you're lucky af
distant lava
I think it's bad
tropic ocean
@young vessel whatever sims best
primal turret
If you dont sim more trinkets we cant say anythin xd
glacial jasper
whats the command to add items from loot journal into /simc
lime edge
How do you guys go about using exsang without stealth
Ik garrote has to be atleast 15sec and rupture 25 I think
So do u just garrote, full rupture, exsang?
radiant quail
I’m pretty sure the sim does a 6point rup and also uses garrote just before exsang is off cool down regardless of the length left
But im sure with some practice you can line them up
warm parcel
rule#1 of exsang is having high duration bleeds up
#2 is having them empowered by stealth if that is available
sudden trench
@primal turret https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/en4GGzsBy5LaayNr5sTCE9
Dont have all my trinks on the toon. But that's what I have when I logged out
untold mortar
u should make sure u compare your sims with same fight durations as other rog sims
bleak spoke
Is lucid still the play with that many expedient
untold mortar
for example ausr posted 3 min fight i guess
untold mortar
i know that 5 min is standard i just wanted to tell to some peeps who may not see that
and asking for "why is his sim higher than mine"
bleak spoke
Yeh
sudden trench
Well, I am still speechless that a trinket I got from bod mount run is stronger that most of the stuff i have. Wasn't expecting that.
bleak spoke
Yeah it’s kinda nuts
warm parcel
Wheres coral
bleak spoke
I wonder if anyone in the world has a 455 lurkers
sudden trench
Fk coral :)
lime edge
Isn't coral completely useless for our opener, lol
bleak spoke
Coral owns
warm parcel
Bosses dont yet die in 20 seconds
sudden trench
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8mhLspptDQGFxiXEQp8UdU
That's with coral
bleak spoke
oh wow
lime edge
Ik they dont
bleak spoke
that actually beats a base mythic coral 
lime edge
What about a titanforged coral, xd
bleak spoke
that's kinda crazy wit it
warm parcel
Would have guessed coral comes out top
warm parcel
But with this level of haste the bleed aint bad
bleak spoke
yeah that kinda owns
sudden trench
Only got it today, will do some testing and see how it goes
lime edge
Do 5 mins
sudden trench
You just said earlier ppl should link the right length @untold mortar ^^
warm parcel
suppose 7 of the bosses die in about 3
tropic ocean
sim 5 when you kill most stuff in 3
bleak spoke
475 galecallers might be better
my 475 plum only sims slightly better than a 465 galecallers
and i only have 1 expedient lol
warm parcel
all you need out of it is for your exsang to be cast while you stand in it
bleak spoke
ah
bleak spoke
but i meant more like later uses of it
lime edge
I guess
bleak spoke
or do you use it at like 1:21 or something
lime edge
That's what I do
bleak spoke
so you catch exsang at the end of it
untold mortar
i just use on cd for whatever
lime edge
If u delay gale, u won't have it for our 2 mins
warm parcel
actually Im not sure what sim does
bleak spoke
cuz exsang will come at 1:30 and then at 2:25
so you probably use it so your last global in second usage has an exsang
and then it's up for the cd line up
or something
warm parcel
crimson palm
latest apl uses it on cd
bleak spoke
i don't like that
i really don't like that
1:18 is a weird number
i'm going to use my plumage 
warm parcel
oddly enough
sim misses gale from the vanish exsang at 2 mins 
äll this desync of the cds feels so horrible
untold mortar
yea it does
lime edge
Time to stop using gale wtf
untold mortar
😄
warm parcel
And while I dont do the apl, it often seems ct seems to offset the syncs somewhat
like without ct talented they seem to line up better everytime
copper pier
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rocky scaffold
Hey, I'm looking for a list of BIS for Assassination. Can anyone point it to me? Appreciate it
red plaza
fathom swift
gcb lines up fine idk why you guys are complaining, you use on pull, use as soon as 2nd exsang rupture falls off then it's up with 2nd vendetta
there's not really any desync with it
cedar vessel
If I’m running Crit/3xSS 2xEB, is exs build still ideal?
lean marten
probably not, xang is a haste build
cedar vessel
Even with roughly 46% Crit/17% haste/ 42% mastery ?
manic pebble
how important is mastery stat when you're going for exsang build?
vast forum
as important as raidbots says
manic pebble
alright, I'll ask him
spice surge
AskMrRaidbots
wary herald
Can anyone explain "expected value" vs "best drop" in Raidbots?
I think it's redundant info but still, I'd like to make sense of it
strange python
you mean on droptimizer?
strange python
Ok so
wary herald
hah
strange python
best drop is the dps increase of the best drop from the boss
and expected value is the average dps increase from the boss I guess
wary herald
figured
ok, that's what I thought
just muddied by the fact that those numbers vary a lot while the boss only has one upgrade
must be averaging downgrades in
thanks
strange python
it does yes
young vessel
can someone check
if the sim is showing me correct rotation?
im trying to get to know and build up the ss build
have no idea what to wear and what to press so
does anyone here have spare 3 minutes to jump onto channel with me and explain me the rotation?
i can stream screen
scarlet sequoia
okay
torpid sparrow
looted the shoulders on nzoth first kill last night , and rip the exsang dream , fml, need to wait the reclear and get lucky i guess
vast forum
@young vessel gar-rup-gar-vend-mut-rup-exsg-blood is the right way
wet ruin
kinda depends on the muti after vendetta though
young vessel
well but im simming pretty shitty on that build
dont know what to wear
maybe is the lack of hearts of darkness
loud light
@chilly marsh the additional hits on the same target just do instant damage, the dot doesn't stack
see Mystler's alpha notes for details:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17PwUb4DBdwYHguapc7J9EVqzxvHe3-tKVhPdqtNw41Y/edit
indigo mulch
Does rupture snapshot from vendetta?
distant lava
no
vestal wren
@chilly marsh its 1 dot per target and bone spike is atm rly strong
as the damage gets amped on additional targets
hollow jolt
is there any mythic raider that could explain me how to play on some fights to have higher dmg output?
chilly marsh
nice to know necrolord looks the coolest of the 4
hollow jolt
what haste % should I be running
tropic ocean
as much as sim superior for you
hollow jolt
I have like rank 7 expedients rn
tropic ocean
after a really high amount other stats take over
hollow jolt
true
I'm trying to go for the exsanguinate build but I didnt get the azerite pieces for it yet
spark pike
my haste is my lowest stat am i simming wrong ? have 33% and no expedient
hollow jolt
till then I'm still running triple DD + 1 SS
vast forum
@spark pike sounds pretty normal
spark pike
i just see alot of top rogues stack expedient
vast forum
well that's the thing
if you have no expedients, you don't have haste amps so each point of haste is worth less
indigo mulch
How much haste does those top rogues actually have?
vast forum
also, if you have other corruptions that don't scale with haste but scale with other stats
such as tentacles
spark pike
okay atm im running r5 mind flay so kinda afraid to go all in on expedient
indigo mulch
I'm fairly new to playing rogue but i'm honestly having issues getting over 3k haste.
young vessel
where should i fit vanish when playing garrote build?
indigo mulch
Together with vendetta @young vessel
vestal wren
@chilly marsh bones atm looks best.
3 charges 30 cd dot with a strong initial hit
that gets a charge back if the tatget dies and does more damage with a 2nd/3rd target
inner leaf
Can i stack expedient 3 for Mythic+ as well?
cedar vessel
If I’m not running vision of perfection, do I save bote for the second 2 minute vendetta?
opal minnow
yes.
cedar vessel
Precise it, that’s what I thought
young vessel
shouldnt i use vision as minor for line up vendetta with exsanguinate?
arctic walrus
no because you care more about vendetta and vanish lining up
young vessel
oke
so i just use exsang on cd
with all 3 bleeds up
aight>
garro
6cp rup
and crimson
distant lava
with your haste I don't think you should play CT
cedar vessel
So for the third Exsanguinate, you don’t save for second vendetta?
distant lava
no
young vessel
okay i have no idea what im pressing
sometimes i do 300k opener without mind flays
and sometimes its flat 130k
i know shit bout this rotationxD
distant lava
having an OP proc before you exsanguinate buffs up your dmg significantly
so maybe that's what's happening
vast forum
generally haste procs before exsang
make you do insane dps
if you proc vita on pull, then proc OP just before exsang, you can burst 300k ez
and then you can get bbi procs or cloak procs during exsang
spark pike
idiot here what is op ?
strange python
overwhelming power
spark pike
ahh ofc lol
runic terrace
Hey friends! Quick question: How's the opener when playing regular MA-Build with BotE Essence?
rancid bobcat
runic terrace
holy crap, sorry @rancid bobcat didn't check them properly
cinder horizon
are they nerfing the Vers corrution?
high mantle
from what i saw only in PVP
cedar vessel
Anyone here who plays SSx3 without Echoing Blades in 17+?
vast forum
yes
cedar vessel
I don’t want to have to have separate sets with Crit and 3 EB, so can you make stacking haste and 3xSS work well ?