Always refresh rupture at 4 or 5 combo points, or only 5?
#assassination
vapid mountain
dusky moon
refresh when it gets to pandemic range
dusky moon
regular duration * 0.3
vapid mountain
I'll do some target dummy testing
dusky moon
below 30% it adds to the new duration, anything over 30% gets lost
vapid mountain
So a safe time would be around 7 seconds due to that being the lowest timer I could apply myself, but refreshing with 4 combo points at 7 gives me more than 24 seconds so then pandemic would be a bit higher
Or any time less than 7 seconds
grave crown
hey guys, what you guys think about versa nerf in pvp? should we go back haste (10-20%)->mastery->versa?
rancid obsidian
Its calculated from the new duration.
fresh abyss
what does my rotation look like when i have 3 echoing blades?
in M+?
do i only use mutilate on 1-2 npc fights?
lament aurora
fresh abyss
why mut one target?
oh
sry
^^
ty
any other changes?
how many ppl should i try to be maintaining garrote/rupture on?
tropic ocean
4-5 usually
fresh abyss
awesome
thanks
how do you sim for m+ usually btw?
is there a particular setting i can use in raidbots
lime edge
Anyone here do m+ with 3xss 3xhod
Not sure If I'm being optimal with mob clearing
I g1 g1 g3 ct, not sure what to do after
No eb traits
cursive meteor
How much crit and how much mastery is the best combo for Echoing blades?
viral aurora
How would you guys set up corruptions if you had free hands, all corruptions available.
How many strikethroughs and severes.
I have 4 strikes and 3 severes.
Also what Kinda stats are you looking for. How much haste minimum etc.
Talking about this week now.
chilly marsh
having TD is not worth it? for sure crit is more consistent but TD have big potential the bigger ae your pulls no ?
also TD 3 on vendor to buy now
chilly marsh
a pakc have 3-4 mobs
tropic ocean
idk for me severe/strikethrough heavily outsims td3+td2 on 6 target
chilly marsh
ausrr can you link your sin for reference ?
tropic ocean
will be a bit different actually ingame cuz im too lazy to switch raid gear with crit/vers for m+
so its favored towards haste
chilly marsh
ty, you dont like gorak instead of 3xeb ?
tropic ocean
depends on dungeon
I play 3 ss 2 hod 1 bbi in ws/kr/tos/siege mostly
rest 3 ss 3 eb
chilly marsh
i dont knoe if i bet on a shoulder for 3eb or on a chest for raid exsang
only have gorak for now
chilly marsh
i have vex chest
cara guild is mid prog best try 20% i think
but gnomecan sims better for exsang vs vex chest
prob will gamble for a shoulder with SS EB
shell atlas
is the ss ensang build better at raiding than tb dd?
plucky shadow
Is there any up to date guide on which azerite pieces are BIS now
strange python
BiS gear for the exsang build is in the Guide linked in the pins
Until then, just sim as usual
plucky shadow
You mean by using droptimizer to sim?
strange python
If you wanna know which azerite pieces to gamble for from the vendor, sure.
safe dagger
any mastery stacking 5 heads in here
grave crown
NOP
echo mantle
Randomish question: Does Conflict and Strife rank 3 tokens count for highest rank or current rank? IE: do i need to be over 1600 for the week to get 5 or just be there for the season. I keep getting conflicting reports on this lol
vast forum
you need to have been over 1600 that week
and have at least 1 win in the bracket where you're 1600+
echo mantle
So basically, one win at 1600 at least basically (ie bumps my reward in chest to that). I got 5 in my chest the week i did no arenas but turned in a reward.
drifting cloud
the win is just for ilvl loot, for tokens you only have to conq cap
echo mantle
So, as long as i hit the 1600 during the season im good or? IE: If i fall under 1600 for the week ill still get 5. This is why im confused
quasi scroll
anybody recommend an addon that turns combatlog on and just leaves it on?
long portal
If you look at your chest it tells you your highest weekly bracket. This determines your loot
rain sundial
I'm a little conflicted with what secondary stat to aim for, as raidbots say crit is our highest value under MH wep dmg but stat prio is haste then crit
tropic ocean
sim top gear
limber lion
LoggerHead @quasi scroll
rigid eagle
@rain sundial i think even a full haste exsang build would still need some crit no
since crit is how we generate cp
once we get to a point where we actually crit once or twice against bosses we can go back to brainlessly stacking haste.
vast forum
i mean, technically both crit and haste generate combo points
vast forum
if you have double the energy, you can cast double the amount of mutilates
balmy condor
^
vast forum
if you have 100% crit, you get double CP from half as many mutilates
overall, same CP
balmy condor
blows my mind every time people are surprised that stats need some balance
rancid bobcat
Gear and sim settings
subtle iron
Can i set it to aoe?
vast forum
that's very reasonable for 40 sec 6 targets
rancid bobcat
Look near the bottom for settings
rancid bobcat
Yes
shell atlas
Antoine here plays the dd tb build stacking expediente?
Inam searching logs and i dont find anyone using it
And i wanted to know ir its good ot not
serene osprey
thats the "waiting for SS traits" build
shell atlas
You know if mindflay is better than that?
I wanted to find some data abkut it
But i dont find
leaden lichen
i guess im stuck in the thinking that exsang and SS go hand in hand
toxic remnant
rigid eagle
@vast forum crit is just more cp in a single global lol
i think i read somewhere that haste doesn't help with rogue's gcd right
actually always wanted to ask about that
lost horizon
rogue GCD is fixed
though there's like weird exceptions, apparently vendetta's GCD is hasted? someone else would have to confirm that one
then also outlaw using AR gets a GCD reduction
vast forum
rogue gcd is exactly 1 sec except for vendetta and while under adrenaline rush
i'm not sure about shadowblades/AR if their global is shorter
but since assa is usually not a global capped class, our effective global is >1 sec
so haste does increase the number of globals you can use
ornate gazelle
what's our ST bis wrists and waist?
rancid bobcat
any non-vers 475 pretty much
rigid eagle
mythic raid is 4 times harder to pass than +15 mythic+
because you have 4 times as many teammates to int you
rigid eagle
lol joined mythic raid last night
with the guild of a friend of a friend
they wiped 10 times on wrath and disbanded
rancid bobcat
rigid eagle
that guild usually has first 3 bosses on farm too lol
honestly i wish they could make solo contents like greater visions the best way to gear
tropic ocean
because you have 4 times as many teammates to int you
@rigid eagle so true 😂
rigid eagle
legit lol
so many ppl only move two inches with incineration and nuke the whole group
tropic ocean
iknow
vocal spoke
hey guys is shrouded suffocations bonus only from stealth ?
faint harness
Yes
vocal spoke
or is only the combo points part stealth based
faint harness
The dmg is only from stealth
vocal spoke
and its still best for most raid bosses ? how can that be if i can only apply it twice and then all 2 min ?
cobalt pelican
big dam
faint harness
Cus its big dam
vocal spoke
do multiple applications of garrote stack ? or does a new one reset the old ones ?
regardless of the azerite trait i mean
vocal spoke
can it happend that i apply a buffed garrote to a target and then overwrite it with a weaker one ? or is dmg calculated on every tick ?
vocal spoke
so if i have a 2000 agi buff for 1 more second and i apply garrote it will have the buffed dmg for all the duration ?
red plaza
Damage is calculated real time so there is no “snapshotting” anymore
vocal spoke
so garrote does snapshot ?
cobalt pelican
you can only overwrite subterfuge/shrouded suffocation buffed garrotes
and exsanguinated garrotes
nothing to do with agility
agility always dynamically updates the dots
vocal spoke
ok i understand
im pretty much a beginner in tryhard rogue playing. what trait would you recommend me for ST oriented fighting ? double dose or shroud suffo ?
cobalt pelican
at low gear levels shrouded isn't really very good
just sim frequently and it'll be fine
vocal spoke
yeah the problem is sometimes different traits are best with different secondary stats and i dont wanna change all my enchants / gems all the time. thats why i wanna have kind of an target to go for. i usually sim anyways all the time
this is my current build https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ddKVHr6me48kErnUj84JE6
cobalt pelican
seems pretty normal, there's not really much trait variety
dd/np/hod are all good
and as you get to higher haste levels (or in the case of niche pieces of gear with no alternatives) ss starts gaining value
minor thicket
Anyone know some good rogue ppl who makes vids on rogue etc on YouTube
rancid bobcat
what are you looking to learn
severe ember
hey! i had a question. so, i am parsing pretty decently for my ilvl but my damage isnt that great. is it because of my gear and not enough corruption? im 462 atm
cobalt pelican
impossible to say without a log, ilvl parses mean close to 0
especially this early in a partition, some content barely even has people playing in certain ilvl brackets
wide ridge
do you guys go CT in weeks like this? bursting and tyrannical? or stick to poison bomb
severe ember
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AQ2B1w9CZhMvzy6J here are my logs from last night
hoary apex
Interchangeable. CT is still better in some dungeons at higher key levels (22+) or if your group damage is low. PB in dungeons like KR/WS is better
cobalt pelican
just using maut as a base @severe ember, there's almost no way that playing master assassin with shrouded suffocation and worldvein is correct for your character, if it is by some miracle you should at least be putting your shrouded garrote on the boss as the 1st gcd
you only got 10/60 seconds of your second pot, 52 seconds between tbs in the middle of the fight etc
arctic walrus
You also are just not going to be able to compete on overall parses with such low ilvl
chilly marsh
guys is there a way to macro Smoke bomb and CT ? something like the TB and enxsang macro?
rancid bobcat
/cast [talent:7/3]Crimson Tempest;[talent:7/1]Smoke Bomb
fallen sandal
Hello, what is a decent amount of corrup to run with ?
rancid bobcat
39 for safety, 59 otherwise
fallen sandal
ok ty 🙂
fallen sandal
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9ozLKfeKw6ddGQZE88Ys7Q any idea of what i should aim to improve first ? i'm farming essences rank 3 atm
rancid obsidian
The droptimiser is a nice tool for such stuff, you can also sim the rank3's on Top gear an see how much that gets you.
fallen sandal
i(ll try that
rancid obsidian
Aiming for a 475 Dagger will prob do it thou.
vestal dagger
It sims highest, but it rarely hits that mark
vestal dagger
It can be good on shadhar. It would probably be worth trying to replace for other bosses and definitely in dungeons
vestal dagger
I would use that on anything with more than one target.
indigo mulch
Question: is CT actually viable in m+? I'm trying to figure out if i should move away from bomb into ct instead in high keys
arctic walrus
no haste becomes your worst stat
combinations of strikethrough and severe are best
vapid scarab
is there a certain ratio you should have?
terse orchid
@indigo mulch CT is generally better than PB in M+. Only time people run PB is tyrannical KR and Workshop iirc
willow vine
At what haste % does 3x SS + Exsang become better than DD + TB?
royal lantern
when your sim tells you its better
charred terrace
Since my ST weights are crit>haste>vers>mast, do I just stack Severe's for ST too?
Even thought everywhere seems to say Expedient
royal lantern
friends dont tell friends too use statweights
statweights its the most ussules sim rn
dont use it
just use topgear and check your own gear
and no, expedient is better on st cus it stacks too ridicolous levels wich enables deeper strat/exsang too be the play with different azerite traits
last gyro
Is CLF any good in m+ ?
royal lantern
charred terrace
still tells me to go severe/crit 
royal lantern
you are using SS and exsang/deeper and with actually haste on all slots+mechagon rings?
balmy condor
@last gyro dungeon slice sucks for sin don't use it
lost horizon
Slice is bad for sin
balmy condor
I probably wouldn't suggest that either tbh
balmy condor
4-5 target 40-60 sec
balmy condor
ye
royal lantern
m+ for sin tends too be more feelcrafty overall
balmy condor
correct
royal lantern
setup changes for every dungeon/week and deepending on your team if you minmax it
balmy condor
like KR tyran, probably don't take 3x EB and CT
but tyran motherlode? probably take 3x EB and CT
balmy condor
and the bosses are scary yea
last gyro
yeah true
heavy forum
Anyone here using the new tmorph?
rancid bobcat
If you are not the one who activates it first you can almost always mash and enter stealth after the cast finishes
last gyro
ok yeah
sometimes it bugs tho ?
like sometimes even if I don't enter first it doesn't let me restealth 
rancid bobcat
last gyro
true
rancid bobcat
I feel it's pretty consistent if you enter fairly quickly after tank. Like the boss is still casting the thing that spawns the adds
solemn tundra
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
manic pebble
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
manic pebble
!meta
drifting cosmos
yea i think you just cant be the 1st to enter or you get into combat straight away
desert comet
you can definitely be the first to enter and still get the stealth off
arctic walrus
crit's better
unborn helm
Crit for more FrtttFrtttFrttt
loud brook
As soon as someone enters an ob the add starts casting before going into combat, you have like 1 globals worth to get into stealth before you're actually in combat from what I can tell. It's the same for you going out too
heavy lark
shadowmeld
royal lantern
but then you play alliance, and struggle with actually finding groups
quick harbor
I just dont get how raz sims so high
I cant get higher then this. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pV9NpM9uUssW8bHWvyERYv
quick harbor
Yea i think that is it aswell
tropic ocean
well when u clear very early and play pvp at high lvl too its normal u got a lot of gear
fervent jasper
Is it even worth it to run 1 EB in shop this week?
tropic ocean
dunno i never run eb in ws
the pulls are pretty small, its more of a cleave dungeon
shut garnet
faint harness
didnt he have like
full expedient gear
before vendor
so yea
you could say he was blessed by rng
despite doing 900 arena games
wet ruin
something people are missing is his high neck level, which adds like +2k dps compared to most people
tropic ocean
not sure he had full expedient
cuz why farm arena like a mad man then
😄
but I guess if u play all content at top level you're basically also spinning the wheel of fortune more
than most players
rotund oak
Hey guys,checked alot of logs but still need a quick heads up on raden mythic.We go exasng/vita charged+plumage aight?
rotund oak
Thx appreciate
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor did atal with expedient 3 ss 2 hod 1 bbi raid build and did 86k ish overall which isnt too bad I guess
but after doing motherlode I just don't think it can compete in these dungeons to 3 ss 3 eb with crit/crit amp stack
so probably nice for lower trash dungeons
manic pebble
expedient will be available on the next rotation right?
strange python
no
manic pebble
guess I'll have to wait for another week
wet ruin
can someone do a quick apl change for me
glacial jasper
It could be, it’s unknown
fathom swift
first one is you wanna max duration empowered garrote within subterfuge window
2nd one what kind of sim is that
fathom swift
he linked 2 images
frigid briar
from same sim
fathom swift
one pointing at garrote, one pointing at bote
frigid briar
Bote usage is wrong in sim for some reason
fathom swift
what kind of sim is that
wet ruin
was trying to compare guardian to bote on 3 min
sullen pagoda
rogue apl
wet ruin
and its doing that
frigid briar
is that ST?
fathom swift
just 3 min 1 target patchwerk?
sullen pagoda
exsang 15sec after vanish 🤔
wet ruin
yeah
frigid briar
aww I know
fathom swift
can you link?
frigid briar
nope, I dont know. I thought it was moving shit due to fight length
sullen pagoda
jesus
frigid briar
I think its forcing crimson tempest before exsanguinate
which is throwing huge gaps
wet ruin
I mean, I know its like a very specific iteration and it doesn't happen always, but the fact that it happens is troubling me
sullen pagoda
https://i.imgur.com/wmtg5yS.png @frigid briar that doesnt explain 2 envenoms
wet ruin
nah, its only forcing 6cp rupture
frigid briar
nah, I dunno. that seems weird
wet ruin
not ct
strange python
does it do the same thing on 5min sims?
wet ruin
nah, haven't noticed it on 5 min
fathom swift
time length shouldn't affect it at all
wet ruin
I think its just trying to use vanish/vendetta on cooldown
fathom swift
the reason it bloods where it does is cause it has the condition debuff.vendetta.remains<=10
wet ruin
and due to some small delays before that exsang was not up
I've seen it delaying second venetta exsang on 5 min as well
but not that extreme with completely fucking bote window
sullen pagoda
its using vanish / vendetta on cd but delaying bote to lineup with exsang?
or wait
even that makes no sense
wet ruin
nah its just using vendetta
fathom swift
it does use vanish on cd ya but thats not the issue
wet ruin
even though exsang is like 15 sec away
and then it uses exsang cuz its off cd, but can't refresh garrote cuz its empowered
and its fucked
thats my take at least
fathom swift
afaict the issue is just exsang was delayed too long and it doesnt hold cds that far to line it up
wet ruin
I thought it considered the fight length
meaning on 3 min you only get 2 vendettas so I thought it will hold
fathom swift
not like that
wet ruin
seems like it delays the exsang on second vendetta often
when you don't crit in the opener, so it does 5cp CT and then muti to 6 rupture exsang
it seems in that case it lines better and its doing a proper exsang blood the second time
tawny wedge
Is it still worth to play toxic blade/poison bomb + 6 gushing and few 12% haste corrupts ?
Or do expand outperform toxic in every singletarget situation ?
*exsang
vast forum
exsang is better but not by a huge margin
if you wanna play TB/pb/DD, you can perform more than well enough for mythic raids
median bear
Hello, i just want to ask if there are special traits for assa in m+ i saw that i need more crit than haste, but cant find if i use specifics traits for m+
candid jasper
in m+ is it worth using crimson on a tyrannical week? afaik you don't want to use crimson as a gcd of 6 combos on a single target right?
main adder
Assassination rogue still running purification protocol major for visions?
restive coral
Bote for visions
lone junco
He's got bote glued to exang. So it lands on 4th? exang. But vanish glued to vendetta.
If you stick them all together you either just skip the exang 2 or delay it all to exang 4.
Neat
Bote in a vacuum it's probably best with trinket and exang. Cause the tick rate without exang is too far apart
main adder
Bote for visions
@restive coral ahh! thanks
pine badger
How come the exsang build is suggested to take 1 honed mind corruption?
drifting cosmos
cos mast is better after you have that much haste
drifting cloud
Its because at max cloak r27 exp isnt enough corr
glacial jasper
Anyone got a recommended plater setup for sin
digital cargo
Can anyone point me in the direction of how to push dps up from here? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/44iBAs9xUgdkcBJpXrobQG
faint harness
shit or.. not as good
faint harness
wouldnt say its SHIT
vast forum
is SHIT
faint harness
ok
digital cargo
Yeah issue is i PvP a lot and dont have the opportunity to run 2 gear sets
faint harness
well alustrael i think ur azerites are terrible
you got bad corruption
bad trinkets
or bad trinket*
vast forum
if you wanna go for pve dps, you have to have different stuff
3 ttks is just
mediocre at best
faint harness
mediocre is being nice
vast forum
versatile is the worst dps corruption
gloomy slate
bad essences as well
faint harness
also just the 1 SS trait
vast forum
nah, essences are fine
faint harness
yea nothing wrong with those essences
gloomy slate
eh
vast forum
breath major should sim rather well for someone running a lot of versatility at low-ish ilvl
vast forum
with lower ilvl, your haste isn't high, so CLF is kinda shit and your dps isn't too high so the bote amp doesn't really affect anything
faint harness
breath has never been a bad major
vast forum
breath has the best neck lvl scaling
so ppl at low-mid range ilvls but high neck lvls will have breath sim the best
so yea, overall: get better gear 😄
digital cargo
is haste/exang build super necessary to push to the 100k?s
vast forum
if you prioritize pvp and can't afford to have 2 sets
vast forum
then it's a bit scuffed
faint harness
but it helps
digital cargo
Just seems weird within 6-10 ilvls i couldjump like 20k
vast forum
ilvl hasn't been the main thing about simdps for a while
faint harness
and traits
you have almost 0 sockets
those sockets alone is prob 6-7k dps
500+ for each gem
vast forum
azerite, MH wep ilvl, sockets, corruptions, trinkets will always have higher impact on your ilvl than just raw ilvl
it's more like 350-400 for this gear 😄
digital cargo
And for sockets, Haste?
vast forum
but yea, having 5 extra sockets is easily 2k extra dps
faint harness
this is how it should look
vast forum
gem whatever sims highest 😄
digital cargo
kk thanks guys
Oh last thing, for pvp, if not going exang build what corruptions are ideal?
sage plank
anyone got a good weak aura for energy and combo points till 6 cp ?
tropic ocean
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sage plank
ty ❤️
buoyant verge
would gushing wounds be still good for assas exsanguinate build?
tropic ocean
good maybe, but worse than expedient
buoyant verge
how much haste % is safe on assas?
tropic ocean
safe?
as much as possible
and later with high gear and high haste u will take 1 honed mind corruption
shy axle
what makes the one honed mind so good? the interaction with bleeds due to high haste?
cobalt pelican
it's not really that it's specifically so good
it's just that all expedient only puts you at 45 corruption eventually
vast forum
yea, it's just extra corruption budget
if you're aiming to go <40, you can just full stack expedient
but down the line with highest possible cloak, full expedient just gives you 45 and then people looked into possibilities to fill up to 55 and that turned out to be the best option
7x exp3, 1x exp2, 1x hm3
shy axle
ah thats why, thanks for the explanation guys
vast forum
if they gave us the ability to put corruptions on trinkets or azerite gear, i'd just go 80+ corruption with full expedient 
bear in mind, the reason that trinkets can't corrupt is because they didn't want the rng of getting the right trinket but it not being corrupted so you wear a shit trinket with a good corruption
but since they added the vendor, they could very easily just allow trinkets to be corrupted and no1 would mind
i don't think they'll do it but it wouldn't ruin the system or anything
grizzled jay
my sin gear is at 11% haste, basically wants me to run my outlaw gear which is just better in general sadly
vast forum
twisted appendage r3 on belt explains that
also, all the strikethroughs and severes really favor crit
twisted appendage doesn't scale with haste, so when you wear 66 corruption of it, crit and vers gain a lot of value
grizzled jay
that makes sense
vast forum
i used to have 0 expedients but 2 TAs on 485 daggers and i couldn't get haste to sim high no matter what i did
grizzled jay
I have some rank 1 expedients on some gear but they dont compare to my outlaw gear
vast forum
but then they added the vendor and now haste is best 😄
grizzled jay
But Im guessing it's not bad to play with my setup
until I can get some better haste gear/corr
cobalt pelican
you'd basically just need to wait till you can recycle your entire set
so stockpile echoes till expedient rolls around
grizzled jay
I have some pieces that have decent corruptions that can be cleasned for expedient I guess
median bear
Its worth to run only haste in m+ too?
grizzled jay
Also, I'm guessing I should run with the traits/talents the sim tells me to right. Cause I love Exsanguinate but the triple Garrote build is quite a few thousand dps lower than my current setup
vast forum
DD is better until you have a few expedients
grizzled jay
Okay. Thanks a lot for assistance
lime edge
is anyone elses most common corruption from visions void ritual?
i keep getting void rituals
probably like atleast 80% of the time
lol
vast forum
nah, leech for me
shy axle
versa proc gang
vast forum
o ye
that too
leech and vers procs
like 30% leech 30% vers procs 15% avoidance 15% void ritual 8% tendies 2% everything else
wild kettle
if you play crimson tempest do you use it with exsang ?
vast forum
you don't force CT for exsg
void pecan
wild kettle
do you keep CT up even in single just like garrote
wild kettle
ookay
strange python
anyone know what "switch to simple mode" does when simming?
cobalt pelican
just changes the display of how much of the sim is completed
golden kraken
Quick question: When should I be popping Lustrous Golden Plumage with shrouded suff build
vital haven
with your cds
golden kraken
Well yea but when doing the opening should i pop it prepull?
golden kraken
Cool thanks
crimson palm
You pop it with the first emp garrote
gaunt aspen
Anyone know any good video guides for sin? Like rotation and stuff
balmy condor
There’s a lot of different ways to play sin atm
So I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s not a video on it
Problem with videos is they get outdated super fast
The effort isn’t worth the reward ya know
gaunt aspen
Yeah that’s fair. I’m just new to rogue and I wanna play sin so usually videos help me kind of get the idea of the spec down
tribal obsidian
videos are great for seeing boss mechanics but I don't find much use of them for showing a rotation or how to play a class. Better off reading imo
gaunt aspen
True. I’ll just look at the rotations on here and just wing it tbh. I play outlaw rn but I hate the dice rolling aspect of it
hoary crown
how punishing is it to roll with ct instead of poison bomb using it badly ?
balmy condor
Not sure what the question is
CT’s strength depends on your character, if you’re running 3x SS, wether you’re in m+ or raid, how many targets there are
tropic ocean
@hoary crown compared to pb?
100%
punishing
as pb is nobrain
and the dps difference isnt gigantic
hoary crown
yeah feels like you need to play perfect in order to not lose out on dps
dummy sure but when you need to think of other stuff in a boss fight
tropic ocean
well its not hard to manage its just a dot to keep up
but if u are just learning the fight imo the less you need to care about the better
gusty nebula
Guys, help. What do you use to sim for mythic nzoth? I'm very doubting on which one to use.. 🤔
gusty nebula
Thank you.
And yeah, I know. Very unlucky with ra-den reclears and residuum
so missing the last ss
desert mauve
is there a haste soft cap i should be worried about running the ideal 7 x expedient 3s? running 4 already and im sitting at a litttle over 50%
balmy condor
No
The only real “soft cap” if you want to name it that would be when you take memory minor off and still energy cap during your opener
But calling it a soft cap is pretty misleading imo
gusty nebula
My damage in nzoth p1 feels like dogshit. I hate it
tropic ocean
its pretty normal for sin
cuz stuff dies so fast
@balmy condor but even then if it does more dps
overcapping wont matter
pallid notch
Hey guys, im looking to make the jump bank into a more hardcore/semi-hardcore playstyle and any help or input would be appreciated. I feel like i should be doing more dmg but cant seem to push past where I am at.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/575426
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6LQe7oGVUeum18sLQgX4S
golden vine
if i’m simming at 55k dps patchwerk, but leveling out at 40k dps end of maut, am i just bad?
balmy condor
Are your healers keeping up in intermission?
warm parcel
Your maut log is just all kind of bad
You dont even handle the rotation of assa on regular level
So start there
Also plenty to improve with gear
golden vine
hmm im not sure, let’s say they were great. i guess if i sim it i should be pretty close to hitting it right?
golden vine
yeah i’ll try to get logs next time i run heroic and get some more feedback thank you
balmy condor
Np
tropic pebble
for m+ do u sim dungeon slice?
sterile lark
So I'm sin and still have rank 10 cloak, but would that bring me down this much? I feel like something is dragging me way down.
balmy condor
you're almost 50 corruption resistance behind the current cap
so that definitely is pretty big
there's also some weird things happening in your gear
balmy condor
yeah
steep obsidian
do you have bote?
get that
get cns
rank 1 lucid?
you losin a shit load with yoru essences
balmy condor
yeah
and replace those rank 1 expeds
with more
also got some azerite upgrades for sure
sterile lark
Awesome thanks, anything else you see?
It's been hella demoralizing being so far down
rancid bobcat
nope, it's pretty much just your gear right now
cobalt pelican
you kinda just gotta do everything, sockets, better azerite (shoulders specifically, but all really), essences, corruptions
on the up side lots of upgrades to be had so get gamering
rancid bobcat
your character looks like it's only bee around for 1 month of 8.3
sterile lark
You'd be right
Got AotC for EP and dodged till a month ago
And made the rogue when I got back
rancid bobcat
strange python
Well so i tried to learn my rotation as assa but i still think im doing bad and i could do better could someone help me and tell me what i did wrong on today raid of my guild? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/47618012#spec=Assassination&difficulty=5
tropic ocean
sick paint skills
@strange python you still do the same mistakes we talked about last time
you don't keep dots refreshed
you don't refresh dots in pandemic
you overcap energy and cp
you lose vendetta/tb/vanish usages
you refresh subterfuge buffed garrote early
dot uptime generally low
opener completely wrong
you basically play without subterfuge talent the way you open
you should check some video on sin rotation and go to the dummy and practice it so u can get muscle memory
rancid bobcat
ok 1 more
molten copper
I could use some suggestions as well for things I can improve for sin; https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/47934779#spec=Assassination
last crown
cannonball runner any good for cleave/pvp? or vendor trash?
last crown
so cool though 😦
tropic ocean
yeah could potentially be a super good trinket if it targeted a mob and kept shooting him
rather than a fixed place
wooden osprey
Hey guys! I haven't played since pre 8.3 and am wondering how far behind I am/how long it would take me to gear up. I'm so confused by all the changes... Cloak, visions, corruption, etc.. Is it worth coming back right now?
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/sargeras/smalltoch
last crown
jfc 445 corrupted glad badge is outsimming 475 deadeye
sinful marsh
depends on what you are coming for really
wooden osprey
Not interested in mythic raiding any more. Takes way too much time.
PvP mostly.
Am I months behind in gear and do I HAVE to raid to be competitive in PvP?
wooden osprey
15s?
sinful marsh
yeah
sinful marsh
getting good corruptions will take you some time and youll be at disadvantage before you do
wooden osprey
I don't even quite understand the whole corruption thing
sinful marsh
same thing as prev seasons, not sure about ilvl as I have only 1k rating
wooden osprey
So basically right now I'd get stomped in PvP? Haha
sinful marsh
its gives you a bonus for price or corruption, the more corruption you have the worse things happen to you : random slowdown/random aoe damage/random add spawn
shy axle
any tipps for carapace myth aside from the guide?
scarlet sequoia
the shadows on the ground is where the tentacles will slam
sinful marsh
well, you want at leasst some corruption and now its buyable so anyonce can buy BiS if they have the currency
wooden osprey
Obviously I have no currency. I don't even know what it is..
tropic ocean
@shy axle keybind set focus
honest basin
Is Crimson Tempest actually used in M+, maybe Fortified ? I kinda like it on N'Zoth and usually don't use it in DGs, but it doesn't look that bad. That being said I don't have the same haste% in raids and dgs so ... Wondering !
sinful marsh
pvp chest, m+, m+ chest, raids
wooden osprey
Aaah okay thanks. And there are two new zones now? Haven't played since December.
sinful marsh
your bis will probably cost 5k/bis
wooden osprey
What would you recommend I do first?
sinful marsh
not really new zones, uldum and vale of eternal blossoms are updated
honest basin
@tropic ocean Mind elaborating a bit ? Such an answer doesn't exactly enlighten me :p
wooden osprey
Cloak quest, then..??
sinful marsh
do the legendary cloak questline
tropic ocean
well its a cleave/aoe talent (unless u play expedient in m+)
sinful marsh
then upgrade it through visions and farm some gear with m+
wooden osprey
And I assume that quest pops up when I login
tropic ocean
so when you need cleave or aoe you play it
sinful marsh
should, yeah
wooden osprey
Thank you for the info. I just feel so lost reading all the changes since December
Kinda overwhelmed
And we still have to farm AP for the neck too?
sinful marsh
yeah blizz doesnt handle returning players very well
not really
like it still gives you ilvl
but i think 80 is cap for features and 90 is soft cap beacuse anything more requires a lot of ap
wooden osprey
No, it feels like once you're gone for 6 months, you're so far behind its not worth it... And this whole system seems crazy to me now.
sinful marsh
its pretty easy to hit 80
wooden osprey
So farming visions over and over? Or whatever they're called.. As in doing so many a day or week?
sinful marsh
you have to buy your way into visions so youll have to do asaults/dailies as well
they lowered the req for upgrading cloak
so shouldnt take very long either
wooden osprey
Assaults like the ones before? Attacks on certain zones and quests to do?
wooden osprey
Hard to return solo?
sinful marsh
the big one resets with weekly and small one weekly and saturday
wooden osprey
Sure seems like it..
sinful marsh
not really
wooden osprey
Maybe I'm over analyzing everything I'm reading.
Sin still basically the same, gear aside?
I'm 445
sinful marsh
yeah
sinful marsh
450-455 should get you to hc raid if you prefer it over m+ for gearing
wooden osprey
Is my gear obsolete?
sinful marsh
how do you mean obsolete?
its a bit on the low ilvl side but should do
youll do assaults and visions no problem
sinful marsh
yeah, pug world is as it has been always
wooden osprey
@sinful marsh yeah that's what I meant. Would I at least be able to play the game and complete the basics..
wooden osprey
And up to level 5 or something, I just kill the boss in visions.
But ideally I want to PvP
sinful marsh
lower ranks pvp shouldnt be too hard especially that you cant go down
wooden osprey
Haha true. I'd already be at the bottom.
Just don't want to get rekt in BGs all day either.
wooden osprey
I love to PvP
chilly marsh
460 from teh 500 weakly cap
wooden osprey
I appreciate your help and info, btw!
wooden osprey
Cool thanks!
chilly marsh
oh you might need to catch up
wooden osprey
Yeah I'll be at the beginning of the season
chilly marsh
well that sucks... must be some 4k-6k conquest behind.
wooden osprey
Literally haven't logged in in 6 months
chilly marsh
them buy one m+ 15 carry
must be +- 150-200k
if everyone is leather you will 3-4 465
- 475 next weak and coin to buy azerite
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
worldly condor
anybody see anything I can improve on?
Or is it gear that is holding my sim back? im farming KR for the plumage
worldly condor
Okay farm mecha, pray for a 475 dagger from chest, and wait for socket farm, so nothing immediate besides farming mecha ring set?
rancid bobcat
wrathion drops a dagger
worldly condor
Shit you right, im big dumb
molten copper
at what point do you want to run the subterfuge and deeper strat build with exsanguinate
lethal ember
is there anyone playing assassin in mythic nyla able to jump in a voice channel and help me out, getting benched for low dps and cannot work out what im doing wrong :/
leaden lichen
Post your logs
sullen pagoda
its actually even worse
lethal ember
yea im fucking up then xD
sullen pagoda
lethal ember
that much is obvious
leaden lichen
Go to a dummy and practice the opener over and over until you get it down
sullen pagoda
yeah practice the opener
strange python
If its obvious why do u ask
lethal ember
because i have no other rogues to speak to and struggling to improve?
balmy condor
I think his point is, if its obvious, you should've seen it yourself
leaden lichen
Once you get the opener down its just maintenance really
balmy condor
not overwriting exsang'd garrotes is basics
sullen pagoda
pretty sure the guy meant obvious that hes fucking up not that errors are obvious
lethal ember
gonna mirrow others logs and see if that helps
balmy condor
log analysis is always a good idea
lethal ember
not good enough to identify it myself is all, more time and more research will help
leaden lichen
Your biggest damage is in the opener. You need to fix that. Use the guide to get it into muscle memory
balmy condor
yeah, its hard if you don't know what you're looking for
leaden lichen
Exsang still requires some thought
leaden lichen
You dont wanna overwrite exsang dots. But all this is in that guide lol
drifting cloud
you dont really have gear for exsang
balmy condor
eh, 3x SS is kinda big
lethal ember
toxic blade till i have my expediance?
molten copper
what gear do you need for exsang
molten copper
forget the semantics lol
drifting cloud
I dunno why you cleansed your dagger but you have 50 corr on your gear
molten copper
Does raidbot's simulation work with exsang builds?
balmy condor
yes
molten copper
ok ill just sim my stuff then instead of asking which is better lol
sullen pagoda
i wanna check out the 5min sim for cd usage if the atrocity from 3min happens in 5min also
molten copper
what atrocity
lethal ember
@balmy condor yea i mucked up hard when corruption shop opened, would like to avoid talking about the big boo boo i made >.> waiting for exp 3 to come round to fix the dead hod issue
balmy condor
aha
sullen pagoda
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/719172124962586664/weird-apl-1.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/719172153991495690/weird-apl-2.PNG @molten copper this one
lethal ember
avoidance for haste cough pass me a razer
loud brook
I just was too lazy to farm expedients when the vendor opened up
im still salty
blizz chose expedient to start with
molten copper
no clue what thosess mean ngl lol
balmy condor
oh
molten copper
not sure what theyre showing lol
balmy condor
bote before exsang
molten copper
ah
sullen pagoda
sullen pagoda
10s between vanished garrote and exsang
sullen pagoda
big yikes
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor why is raidbots trolling
sullen pagoda
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/smFxJYdu9ZNr2WhUv9XcUv/simc this is the sim if u are interested
the 3min screenshots were from someone else he linked sim earlier
fleet anchor
hmm?
tropic ocean
fleet anchor
what's the concern exactly?
balmy condor
lot of wasted time on vanished garrote
tropic ocean
why envenom mut mut rup mut mut exsang
fleet anchor
Because when Exsanguinate comes off cooldown there the conditions for it being worthwhile are already met
balmy condor
but shouldn't it be up before 2:29
fleet anchor
Which is Garrote not being refreshable and Rupture having all but 4s of max duration
molten copper
how can you guys see the exact sequence of buttons the bot does to get the best sim?
tropic ocean
but does it not waste 8s of buffed garrote
fleet anchor
No Vanish Garrote time is "wasted" though?
It's all within Vendetta it makes no difference
sullen pagoda
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/719172124962586664/weird-apl-1.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/719172153991495690/weird-apl-2.PNG in 3min one vanished garrote is basically gone by the time sim does exsang
sullen pagoda
but bote time matters?
balmy condor
ye the bote is at the end of that sequence tho
sullen pagoda
bote 25% crit dmg is 10s duration
u have 3-4 sec of globals between vanished garrote to bote for full duration in it
with exsang ofc
fleet anchor
7.3s of Garrote is remaining after Exsanguinate is used there...
There is 0% reason to shift the entire rotation around to get BotE crit buff on 1 tick of Garrote
sullen pagoda
its not one tick
cobalt pelican
crit dam is 5s, crit% is 10s
sullen pagoda
oh ye true i mixed that up but it still doesnt make it much better
fleet anchor
No, it makes it a lot better lol
sullen pagoda
you dont get another cd usage anyway
why wouldnt u have full exsanged garrote in bote
fleet anchor
Because clearly Exsanguinate was not yet off cooldown, otherwise it would have been used earlier
sullen pagoda
but you can delay vanish vendetta since its last set of cds you get anyway
fathom swift
Yeah it was previously used at 1.45 that sim, someone posted it last night
fleet anchor
You don't delay your Vanish/Vendetta by 10s just to get 25% extra crit on like 1 extra tick.. that part of BotE is just not that strong
Risking losing a use at the end of the fight for like.. an average of 1k damage 😛
not DPS mind you, damage 😛
sullen pagoda
what do you mean risking usage in a 3min sim
fathom swift
You know its not exactly 3 min right, fight length variation is 20%
fleet anchor
The APL is generalized behavior, it is macro logic across thousands of iterations with different cadence, combo points, procs, etc.
3 minute sims are also, by default, +- 20% duration
You honestly can't expect everything to be lined up with everything every time, which is why taking single iteration snapshots out of context can be tricky.
Moving BotE after Exsanguinate is shown to be the generally optimal approach
tropic ocean
but maybe my logic is scuffed
with that late exsang rupture
doesnt it miss rupture ticks inside vendetta
or does it not matter
fleet anchor
And using Exsanguinate with the current thresholds is shown to be the generally optimal approach
fathom swift
Some iterations are gonna be like 2.30 in length, some will be 2.40, if you want to delay cds then those will all do less damage than using them as it currently is for a 3 min sim
fleet anchor
Possible Ausr, and certainly there is a case to be made for adding additional cooldown delay support for Vanish/Vendetta on certain fight lengths but that starts getting pretty complicated.
Since that impacts BotE/Exsang/CLF/Font/Coral/etc.
There are a lot of variables to consider
Hard to know about if it missed ticks though since it's not obvious in the sequence how many CP Rupture was cast with there
Also don't know what the end of the fight is in this situation
Since it's only a small capture
As bolas said, it's +- 20% so it could be the fight is almost over
And maybe end-of-fight logic is kicking in. Not really enough in that screenshot for me to say for certain
tropic ocean
well just from looking at what raidbots does
it seems way simpler
than we make it
cobalt pelican
i think a lot of people have the misunderstanding that the apl is god or something
humans have a lot of advantages over machines, if you know your fight length you can adjust appropriately to anything
vast forum
apl is a set of rules and in some niche/extreme scenarios, it can do some extremely dumb stuff
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/x13mB1jJsnimT7h7_b3hfFBNyX1S0Ai-lBwmcfecSjU/https/i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/118b3786a9d12f05635be749cca57986-png.jpg any1 member this?
TB/MA oldschool stuff 😄
sullen pagoda
idk i guess u have a point of knowing fight length better than in a sim
rancid bobcat
more sockets, try dropping shrouded for double dose if you can
jaunty hamlet
Also when doing m+
Its simmed that way cause its for set for m+ rn
Always run DD when doing raid
sullen pagoda
Not always depending on gear SS is superior
rancid bobcat
it's probably not for him
sullen pagoda
yea with pepega gear probably not but dont delete the ss pieces u get
jaunty hamlet
i dont, i keep all azerite pieces above 470
U think i should run this over Fleshbeast
for more DD
sullen pagoda
sim it
fleet anchor
I mean, the reality is that a sim will probably play better than most if not all players over 10k iterations
It literally never makes "mistakes" even if it has timing oversights in edge cases
And these small mistakes really don't change the evaluations of things so it's not super relevant for gear comparing or whatever even if they do
dense blaze
What's with all these logs using VOP minor on Wrathion while only using vendetta paired with vanish? Seems like a waste
cobalt pelican
yeah for sure, everyone makes mistakes and a computer is better at being 'perfect' but it can only be perfect within the constraints you give it - if you tried adding exact fight length logic for every single fight length i imagine it'd be incredibly convoluted and annoying and of little value for what people actually use sims for
rancid bobcat
why not read the logs and find out
dense blaze
? I looked at the logs and saw they are only using it with vanish? Hello?
cobalt pelican
i'm not sure what you mean only using vendetta paired with vanish
you mean holding vanish till 1:30 vend?
then aligning at 3:30 post intermission?
dense blaze
They are not using the vendetta when it comes up after the first time he moves, it's only being used with vanish, as if they didn't have VOP minor at all